The Patersons

Kelly, I was looking through some things you've written about unschooling,
and I found this:



I can't imagine being stressed while unschooling.

I think the only thing that would be stressful is actually "getting it" and
replying to grandparents or neighbors---but I'm waaaay past that as well.

Sometimes I get overwhelmed by too much on my plate, but usually I'm having
too much fun to drop something. I just need to stop and focus and regroup a
bit.

I've never heard of burn-out from unschooling. Anyone else?



I think I'm stressed though. And the stress comes from having an autistic
child (4) who yells at his sister (8) all day long and fights with his
brother (2). Also - I am a personality who needs a relative amount of space
and quiet to myself.



Do you think there are some personalities of parents who suit unschooling
more than others?

How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?

How can I give everyone what they need ? My daughter needs heaps of friends
and lots of attention from me. My autistic son needs peace, quiet and mummy
to give him the calming therapy he needs every day. My two year old son
needs breastfeeding and cuddles a LOT. My husband needs someone to talk to
about his stressful job and I need to 'achieve' things in a quiet atmosphere
(ie. Knit a pair of socks) to feel worthwhile.





Help!

Cecily





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shileen Nixon

> ****I think I'm stressed though. And the stress comes from having
> an autistic
> child (4) who yells at his sister (8) all day long and fights with his
> brother (2). Also - I am a personality who needs a relative amount
> of space
> and quiet to myself.
>
> Do you think there are some personalities of parents who suit
> unschooling
> more than others?
>
> How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?
>
> How can I give everyone what they need ? My daughter needs heaps of
> friends
> and lots of attention from me. My autistic son needs peace, quiet
> and mummy
> to give him the calming therapy he needs every day. My two year old
> son
> needs breastfeeding and cuddles a LOT. My husband needs someone to
> talk to
> about his stressful job and I need to 'achieve' things in a quiet
> atmosphere
> (ie. Knit a pair of socks) to feel worthwhile. Help! Cecily ****
>



















Hi Cecily! I relate to you as I too am one who needs space. It's
easier for me now as my kids are older but I do remember the day when
the kids were little. My husband would try to take the kids out from
time to time for a day or give me a day out whichever I was needing.
The problem was that I wouldn't get the time until I was so stressed
and miserable. We would talk about having scheduled time off so I
could plan and look forward to it but we never made that happen.
There was a time when I found a young lady .... early 20's who would
come once or twice a week for a couple of hours and either help me
around the house or take the kids out to the park or out to do
something fun. If she took them out for a treat or a movie I would
pay for that ... but usually she took them to do something that
didn't cost. They loved their time with her. We couldn't pay her
much but we came up with an agreeable pay. Even at once a week for
only 2 hours I so looked forward to that time.

This is what I know, Cecily, it is sooo important for you to take
care of you and give yourself what you need. Be creative ... think
outside the box if you have to but figure something out. Your cup
needs to be filled so that you have something to give to others -
even your family. I've talked to women so stressed out that they've
made themselves sick. Getting sick is your body's way of saying
enough! For crazy busy women I've been known to suggest what I call
love activities. Sounds weird, I know ... but giving to yourself is
a way of expressing self love. Find and make time in your day to
give to you even if it's only 15 minutes maybe while the kids nap.
In those 15 minutes do something that you love, that's
destressing ... something that will help fill your cup. You
mentioned knitting. I know 15 minutes isn't long but 15 minutes is
better than 0 minutes. And maybe you can do a couple of 15 minutes
chunks of time throughout the day. If not.. it's ok. It's a place to
start.

Hope this gives you some ideas or inspires some ideas of your own.

Shileen






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:21 PM, The Patersons wrote:

> Do you think there are some personalities of parents who suit
> unschooling
> more than others?

Yes. I think optimism is important. A pretty strong energy level
helps. Patience is good.

>
>
> How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?

You don't get much when your kids are young. I get a LOT these days -
mine are 17, 20, and 23.

Learn to take 1-minute mental vacations. Go into the bathroom, shut
the door and your eyes, visualize yourself somewhere peaceful and
quiet. Don't expect more than 60 seconds or you'll be frustrated and
disappointed instead of calmed. These mini-vacations can make a
gigantic difference.
>
>
> How can I give everyone what they need ? My daughter needs heaps of
> friends
> and lots of attention from me. My autistic son needs peace, quiet
> and mummy
> to give him the calming therapy he needs every day. My two year old
> son
> needs breastfeeding and cuddles a LOT. My husband needs someone to
> talk to
> about his stressful job and I need to 'achieve' things in a quiet
> atmosphere
> (ie. Knit a pair of socks) to feel worthwhile.

Start with that last thing - you must recognize your worth as a mother
and partner so that doing a good job in those roles gives you self-
satisfaction. Pay more attention and make mental notes when you
"achieve" things like connecting with a child, supporting a child,
etc. Satisfied, happy kids are a way better payoff than a pair of socks.

Try to think of some of the nurturing you're doing as being for
yourself, too. That'll help, Think of it as giving your kids what they
need and, in so doing, getting to experience childhood again, with
more abundance and sweetness than you did the first time (when you
were the child).

Try to set things up to coordinate different needs/interests. Have
friends over to your house more than going out to others houses so
that your daughter can play with other kids in her room or the back
yard while you spend time in another, quieter, room with your son or
at least he can be home in his familiar space and have a place to be
in another room. Or go to a park and you spend time with your son
while the others play. Maybe these particular ideas won't work - but
the point is to plan ahead and develop habits that take each person's
needs into account.

And - breathe deep. Take each day and each moment as they come.

-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Musolff

How can I give everyone what they need ? My daughter needs heaps of friends
and lots of attention from me. My autistic son needs peace, quiet and mummy
to give him the calming therapy he needs every day. My two year old son
needs breastfeeding and cuddles a LOT. My husband needs someone to talk to
about his stressful job and I need to 'achieve' things in a quiet atmosphere
(ie. Knit a pair of socks) to feel worthwhile.

Isn't it funny? I thought I would love unschooling because it would
de-stress my life! I thought giving up all that added stress of
curriculums, expectations, etc. would make life calm and peaceful. Don't
get me wrong, I did feel a huge weight lifted when I realized I could give
all that unnecessary stuff up, and just be with my family. But it seems
like the old stress has been replaced with new stress (like the ones you've
listed above!). I don't know about you, but I am very new to unschooling,
so that probably has something to do with it. (Hopefully!)

Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:21 PM, The Patersons wrote:
>
> > Do you think there are some personalities of parents who suit
> > unschooling
> > more than others?
>
> Yes. I think optimism is important. A pretty strong energy level
> helps. Patience is good.

What if you don't have a strong or high energy level? How important
is it to get out and do things vs. staying home and hanging out
together? I'm tired a lot, physically and mentally. I'm hoping it's
just because I have young children and as they get older and I get
more sleep my energy level will go up. I have noticed that on those
nights when my baby sleeps longer than usual I have a lot more
energy the next day. I vaguely remember those days when I had only
one 10 year old and I was almost always doing something.

Another question for me is how important is it to get out and do
things when the children are still very young. I guess I don't think
it's so very important to get out a lot with my 4 year old whereas I
might find it moreso when he's 10. Sometimes I do worry, though,
that we don't get out enough. I try to take the kids for a walk
every day but it's just around the neighborhood in the stroller. My
4 year old plays with the 4yo boy next door most days now that the
weather is warmer and he has met the boys who live behind us who are
a bit older. We try to get to the park that's within walking
distance at least once a week. So, we're not total recluses and my
ds does get time to play with other kids but we don't have a lot of
variety.

> > How do you realistically take time out for peace and quiet?
>
> You don't get much when your kids are young. I get a LOT these
days -
> mine are 17, 20, and 23.
>
> Learn to take 1-minute mental vacations. Go into the bathroom,
shut
> the door and your eyes, visualize yourself somewhere peaceful and
> quiet. Don't expect more than 60 seconds or you'll be frustrated
and
> disappointed instead of calmed. These mini-vacations can make a
> gigantic difference.

This was/is an important thing for me. I had to change my
expectations about getting me time. I have to consciously remind
myself that the time that my attention will be constantly demanded
is very short in the larger scheme of things. I can and still do
sometimes get very frustrated in the moment if I JUST WANT TO FINISH
THIS LAST ROW (I knit, too). I have to shift my thinking at that
moment and decide that it's not that important at that moment and
let it go. That's probably a bit different with an autistic child
but as your other children get older you won't have as many demands
on your time as you do now.

Alysia

beanmommy2

--- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:

> > Yes. I think optimism is important. A pretty strong energy level
> > helps. Patience is good.
>
> What if you don't have a strong or high energy level? How important
> is it to get out and do things vs. staying home and hanging out
> together? I'm tired a lot, physically and mentally. I'm hoping it's
> just because I have young children and as they get older and I get
> more sleep my energy level will go up. I have noticed that on those
> nights when my baby sleeps longer than usual I have a lot more
> energy the next day. I vaguely remember those days when I had only
> one 10 year old and I was almost always doing something.


I was just about to post the same type of reply, but with a different
twist: I DON'T have a lot of energy. I have a chronic illness and
three kids under the age of seven.

It seems there are MANY people out there who think I "can't"
homeschool properly since I'm sick, or who think my kids would be
better off in school. (My husband is even concerned about this at
times.)

Is there a point where "not having energy" means you shouldn't
unschool?

Jenny

Melissa Gray

There is no point where you *shouldn't* unschool (actually, my first
flip response was 'when you're dead').

We came to unschooling while I was on bedrest, stuck on my left side
for nearly six months. Before that we were doing school at home. It
was very scary for me, dh was gone most of the time, and my kids were
ten, eight, six, five, three and almost two. I didn't have TIME to be
on bedrest, much less the 'energy' to unschool. But being removed
from the position of control is exactly what worked best for my kids
(and me) For us really. That doesn't mean it will work best for you,
but so much depends on YOUR outlook, whether you can be positive
about it. I also have an autoimmune disorder, so I understand about
having limited energy, and for our family that means that I have to
choose a LOT, because when you're only alloted ten units of energy a
day, you can't afford to waste it on housework or yardwork or
unnecessary things. It will go to the kids.
Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/




On Apr 3, 2008, at 7:53 AM, beanmommy2 wrote:

> --- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...> wrote:
>
>
> Is there a point where "not having energy" means you shouldn't
> unschool?
>
> Jenny
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 3, 2008, at 5:19 AM, keetry wrote:

> > Yes. I think optimism is important. A pretty strong energy level
> > helps. Patience is good.
>
> What if you don't have a strong or high energy level? How important
> is it to get out and do things vs. staying home and hanging out
> together? I'm tired a lot, physically and mentally.

When someone asks about what it takes to unschool, I'm not really
thinking of parents of infants, toddlers, and pre-school-age kids, but
of school-age kids.

> I'm hoping it's
> just because I have young children and as they get older and I get
> more sleep my energy level will go up.

What was your energy level like before you had kids? I'm talking
mental energy more than physical.

> I have noticed that on those
> nights when my baby sleeps longer than usual I have a lot more
> energy the next day. I vaguely remember those days when I had only
> one 10 year old and I was almost always doing something.

A walk around in the neighborhood can be a pretty wonderful and
stimulating thing to a young child. See it through their eyes! Enjoy
it. Share your joy, energetically.

I really do think it takes a pretty active and energetic type of
person to unschool well. Bring the world to the kids and kids to the
world and notice and support the things that interest them. Easy to
say - takes a lot of mental attention and energy to do it.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 3, 2008, at 5:53 AM, beanmommy2 wrote:

> I was just about to post the same type of reply, but with a different
> twist: I DON'T have a lot of energy. I have a chronic illness and
> three kids under the age of seven.
>
> It seems there are MANY people out there who think I "can't"
> homeschool properly since I'm sick, or who think my kids would be
> better off in school. (My husband is even concerned about this at
> times.)
>
> Is there a point where "not having energy" means you shouldn't
> unschool?

If your illness and lack of energy prevents you from providing a
stimulating and rich environment or supporting your kids' interests,
then you'll have to decide whether another option would be better.

But, I've known a number of people who unschooled with long-term or
chronic illnesses or other difficulties. What I've noticed is that
they had to have a significant degree of mental energy to adapt and
make things happen for their kids when they couldn't do things
themselves.

The point is that it DOES take work and effort and energy - a totally
different kind than sending kids off to school every day - but
definitely it is not a lesser degree. Depression, for example, makes
unschooling less good for the kids - and part of that is lack of
energy that comes with depression. It isn't fair to the kids to keep
them out of school and then not offer them at the least the amount of
the world that school would offer.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mjtjkda

I totally understand where you are coming from. I too get very
emotional/mentally drained. I have found that trying to focus on the
moment is important...not thinking ahead to all the things I need to
do but just to try and enjoy the time @ hand with me kids...
My main energy robber is when my kids start to fight and bicker
between each other... it's enough to drive even a saint to drink, lol
I feel like the more time we spend together and the more we get to
know each other, the more bickering happens...I don't want to feel
like the only mom dealing with this....does anyone have any advice?


--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2008, at 5:19 AM, keetry wrote:
>
> > > Yes. I think optimism is important. A pretty strong energy level
> > > helps. Patience is good.
> >
> > What if you don't have a strong or high energy level? How
important
> > is it to get out and do things vs. staying home and hanging out
> > together? I'm tired a lot, physically and mentally.
>
> When someone asks about what it takes to unschool, I'm not really
> thinking of parents of infants, toddlers, and pre-school-age kids,
but
> of school-age kids.
>
> > I'm hoping it's
> > just because I have young children and as they get older and I get
> > more sleep my energy level will go up.
>
> What was your energy level like before you had kids? I'm talking
> mental energy more than physical.
>
> > I have noticed that on those
> > nights when my baby sleeps longer than usual I have a lot more
> > energy the next day. I vaguely remember those days when I had only
> > one 10 year old and I was almost always doing something.
>
> A walk around in the neighborhood can be a pretty wonderful and
> stimulating thing to a young child. See it through their eyes!
Enjoy
> it. Share your joy, energetically.
>
> I really do think it takes a pretty active and energetic type of
> person to unschool well. Bring the world to the kids and kids to
the
> world and notice and support the things that interest them. Easy
to
> say - takes a lot of mental attention and energy to do it.
>
> -pam
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

carenkh

=-=-It isn't fair to the kids to keep them out of school and then not
offer them at the least the amount of the world that school would
offer.-=-=

I have mixed feelings about this. Early on in our unschooling journey,
I was very severely depressed. I felt like, even if we're not out
exploring as much as we ideally would, at least my child wasn't
getting the messages that he did when he went to school: he shouldn't
be so sensitive, he should be more social, he should be more
competitive. The message that he wasn't OK being who he is. Along with
all the other BS that goes with school - very little outside time,
every moment controlled, not being able to complete things you really
wanted to, etc. I believed our *less* enriched environment was still a
healthier place to be. I had read on an unschooling list two people
that shouldn't unschool were single parents and depressed people. At
one point, I was a single, depressed mom, and I still believed our
home was a healthier place to be than school. I realized someone's
opinion on a list wouldn't dictate my reality. (and believe me, I was
questioning my choice!) My kids definitely didn't want to go to school
- and I spoke honestly with them about it, I didn't make school out to
be nightmarish or anything. But they saw their schooled friends with
homework, etc. and knew they'd rather be home - especially my oldest,
who had gone to 1st and 2nd grades at a charter school.

It's years later, and I'm still very glad they didn't go to school, as
are they.

Caren

Ren Allen

--- I had read on an unschooling list two people
> that shouldn't unschool were single parents and depressed people.~~


And that is utterly ridiculous as some of the very best unschoolers I
know would fit one (or both) of the categories above.

The problems come in when home is NOT where the child would prefer to
be and Mum keeps them home for her own reasons. When home is a lame
place to be, school looks better. Meeting a child's needs means that
the options are very different from home to home but even just being
at home, the options should be interesting and fun!

A depressed Mum needs to deal with her issues and make sure there are
avenues for the children when she can't be her best. We all need to do
that.

Anyone can unschool. Not everyone can unschool well. Not everyone
SHOULD unschool. That doesn't mean unschooling can't work in less than
ideal situatios and it doesn't stop life stresses from happening.

Unschooling is not a recipe for avoiding stress or creating a perfect
life. But it sure helps reduce stress and creates a really great
enviroment in which a fabulous life (and relationships) can unfold.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

swissarmy_wife

--- In [email protected], "carenkh" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> =-=-It isn't fair to the kids to keep them out of school and then not
> offer them at the least the amount of the world that school would
> offer.-=-=
>
> I have mixed feelings about this.

I also have mixed feelings about that. In our experience school
completely destroyed his sense of self worth, his love of learning,
and his happiness. He was a very depressed 6 year old. Of course i
have had (and still have) a lot of work to do on myself in order to be
the unschooling parent I WANT to be. However, I do believe that my
child is so much better off here with me, even if i had not chosen to
make those changes within myself.

keetry

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> > When someone asks about what it takes to unschool, I'm not really
> thinking of parents of infants, toddlers, and pre-school-age kids,
but
> of school-age kids.
>
> -pam
>
>

So, do you think there's no need to think even in terms of unschooling
until your children reach school age? What is that anyway, 7 years
old? It seems to start sooner and sooner every year. Now "they" are
talking about making 3 year old preschool free and accessible to
everyone. I think I heard Hillary Clinton talking about or read on her
campaign website that she's actively involved in getting this done.

I think I had a lot of energy, physically and mentally, before I had
my 2nd child. Then I lost it. When he reached 2 I spontaneously came
out of some sort of fog. It was really strange. I hadn't realized
until I came out of it just how bogged down in it I was. I had very
little energy or motivation to do anything. I laugh and tell people it
took me 2 years to recover from pregnancy and birth with him.

I do find myself having more energy sooner with this 3rd baby than
with my 2nd but I don't feel 100%, either. That makes me worry that my
2nd child, who is 4 years old, is missing out on a lot because I'm
just too tired. I don't plan much or get involved in much because I
never know from one day to the next if I'm going to feel up to doing
something. I do want to do more, though, some day.

Alysia

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 3, 2008, at 1:17 PM, carenkh wrote:

> I had read on an unschooling list two people
> that shouldn't unschool were single parents and depressed people.

Well - I would NEVER say single parents shouldn't unschool - clearly
some of the most wonderful unschooling families I know are those with
single parents.

That may have been a misinterpretation of something else - it is
difficult for DIVORCED parents to unschool when the ex isn't totally
on board with it. When people are considering a divorce, that is
something they have to consider seriously - it could make unschooling
impossible.

As far as depression - if someone is keeping their kids out of school
but is not coping, themselves, with life well enough to support the
kids' interests, not able to offer them a stimulating enriched
environment, then unschooling is not going to go all that well.

Yes, you might keep them from some negative school-related stuff. But
it is possible for school to be better than home, if home is sad,
boring, draining, etc.

Anyway - low-energy levels - meaning parents not able to support a
reasonably sparkly interesting lifestyle - are a negative when it
comes to unschooling. If someone asks what characteristics in the
parent help unschooling go well - I still say having a high energy
level and positive outlook on life are very important.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:15 PM, Kim Musolff wrote:

> Isn't it funny? I thought I would love unschooling because it would
> de-stress my life! I thought giving up all that added stress of
> curriculums, expectations, etc. would make life calm and peaceful.
> Don't
> get me wrong, I did feel a huge weight lifted when I realized I
> could give
> all that unnecessary stuff up, and just be with my family. But it
> seems
> like the old stress has been replaced with new stress (like the ones
> you've
> listed above!). I don't know about you, but I am very new to
> unschooling,
> so that probably has something to do with it. (Hopefully!)


You won't have it nailed. You'll balance all the time - sometimes
you'll find you've moved to far one way or the other and you'll
adjust. The kids will change - often just when you feel equilibrium
has been reached!

It can help a lot of you have a couple of friends over to your house
for your social kid, very often. Try to set something up that is
regular and she can count on it. So she's getting social time while
your son stays in his comfort zone. Takes work on your part to get
that set up - to juggle social stuff, but if you invite people to your
house often, that is less stressful than going out a lot.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~I did feel a huge weight lifted when I realized I could give
> all that unnecessary stuff up, and just be with my family. But it
seems like the old stress has been replaced with new stress (like the
ones you've listed above!).~~

Well, unschooling doesn't insulate us against life's ups and downs,
that's for sure! But it helps us navigate with more grace.

I think the further we go, the more we are able to realize that many
things have nothing to do with the unschooling, its just LIFE issues.
Families have different dynamics and personalitites all of which can
create different kinds of chaos.:)
How we handle the chaotic moments get better and better....hopefully.
But stuff happens. Life isn't perfect but unschooling sure helps makes
it awesome!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

I unschooled through two cancer surgeries and then six months of weekly chemotherapy, and I continue to unschool despite being in constant pain from fibromyalgia. My dark days have taught my kids things they could never learn at school: deep compassion and empathy, the satisfaction one gets from going the extra mile when someone else is unable to cope, and the security of being a part of a family that survives hard times. I wouldn't trade a minute of it, and I don't think my kids would either.

Carol

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> I still say having a high energy
> level and positive outlook on life are very important.
>
> -pam


This can be so relative, though.

Alysia

keetry

--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> --- I had read on an unschooling list two people
> > that shouldn't unschool were single parents and depressed
people.~~
>
>
> And that is utterly ridiculous as some of the very best
unschoolers I
> know would fit one (or both) of the categories above.
>
> The problems come in when home is NOT where the child would prefer
to
> be and Mum keeps them home for her own reasons. When home is a lame
> place to be, school looks better. Meeting a child's needs means
that
> the options are very different from home to home but even just
being
> at home, the options should be interesting and fun!
>
> A depressed Mum needs to deal with her issues and make sure there
are
> avenues for the children when she can't be her best. We all need
to do
> that.
>
> Anyone can unschool. Not everyone can unschool well. Not everyone
> SHOULD unschool. That doesn't mean unschooling can't work in less
than
> ideal situatios and it doesn't stop life stresses from happening.
>
> Unschooling is not a recipe for avoiding stress or creating a
perfect
> life. But it sure helps reduce stress and creates a really great
> enviroment in which a fabulous life (and relationships) can unfold.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com


Thank you for this, Ren, and Caren, for your response.

Alysia

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 3, 2008, at 1:41 PM, keetry wrote:

> So, do you think there's no need to think even in terms of unschooling
> until your children reach school age?

I don't think in terms of unschooling my kids no matter how old they
are, to be honest.
It isn't something I do to the kids. I would be unlikely to say: "I
unschool Rosie."

But, sure, think in terms of the principles of unschooling - apply
them to infants, too. Bring the world to the child and the child to
the world and support their interests. For an infant, that means one
thing, for a 17-year-old, that means something very different.

I think it is sort of unnecessary to say "We are unschoolers" when
school isn't required anyway. To me, it is good parenting. In the
absence of required school, none of us would be "unschooling," we'd be
living a glorious life. I only use the term "unschooling" when talking
to other people who want to know about this life-without-any-school-at-
all way we're living.

> What is that anyway, 7 years
> old? It seems to start sooner and sooner every year. Now "they" are
> talking about making 3 year old preschool free and accessible to
> everyone. I think I heard Hillary Clinton talking about or read on her
> campaign website that she's actively involved in getting this done
>
> I think I had a lot of energy, physically and mentally, before I had
> my 2nd child. Then I lost it. When he reached 2 I spontaneously came
> out of some sort of fog. It was really strange.

I had the exact same experience.

> I hadn't realized
> until I came out of it just how bogged down in it I was. I had very
> little energy or motivation to do anything. I laugh and tell people it
> took me 2 years to recover from pregnancy and birth with him.

Me too, I remember one day that I could see more clearly. Literally. I
really felt that I'd been in a fog.
>
>
> I do find myself having more energy sooner with this 3rd baby than
> with my 2nd but I don't feel 100%, either.

And you know that you probably don't even realize that you're still a
bit IN that fog, right?

> That makes me worry that my
> 2nd child, who is 4 years old, is missing out on a lot because I'm
> just too tired. I don't plan much or get involved in much because I
> never know from one day to the next if I'm going to feel up to doing
> something. I do want to do more, though, some day.

For a 4 year old, access to lots of interesting tactile materials is
really good. You don't have to be going out of the house a lot - but
you can make lots of "stuff" available. Put a sheet of construction
paper in a cookie tray and dump in a little paint and a marble - let
him/her roll it around and make designs. Make homemade playdough and
put weird stuff in it to change the smell and texture - like pineapple
extract and oatmeal or rice. Give them lots of old spice jars and they
can make potions. Mix cornstarch and water and play with that in the
tub. Put a paper towel over the top of a glass with a rubber band
around it - slowly add pennies on top of the papertowel until it caves
in (count the pennies - try to get more next time). Put a sweet potato
in water and watch it grown into a cool vine. And so on -- just
regular stuff around the house. Bath play with kitchen utensils and
bubbles is fun. Pick up cotton balls with chopsticks.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Apr 3, 2008, at 6:46 PM, mykaylabee@... wrote:

> I unschooled through two cancer surgeries and then six months of
> weekly chemotherapy, and I continue to unschool despite being in
> constant pain from fibromyalgia. My dark days have taught my kids
> things they could never learn at school: deep compassion and
> empathy, the satisfaction one gets from going the extra mile when
> someone else is unable to cope, and the security of being a part of
> a family that survives hard times. I wouldn't trade a minute of it,
> and I don't think my kids would either.

Do you feel that there is a difference between you trying to cope with
very difficult circumstances versus someone whose personality
temperament is to be cynical, negative, depressive, and low energy?

-pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sognokids

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2008, at 6:46 PM, mykaylabee@... wrote:
>
> > I unschooled through two cancer surgeries and then six months of
> > weekly chemotherapy, and I continue to unschool despite being in
> > constant pain from fibromyalgia. My dark days have taught my
kids
> > things they could never learn at school: deep compassion and
> > empathy, the satisfaction one gets from going the extra mile
when
> > someone else is unable to cope, and the security of being a part
of
> > a family that survives hard times. I wouldn't trade a minute of
it,
> > and I don't think my kids would either.
>
> Do you feel that there is a difference between you trying to cope
with
> very difficult circumstances versus someone whose personality
> temperament is to be cynical, negative, depressive, and low energy?
>
> -pam
>
My situations didn't make me cynical, but I certainly had negative,
depressive and low energy moments. (Chemo is no picnic!) Not just
moments; often weeks or months. I'm in a lot of pain now, and
definitely low energy. But the joy of being with my kids is what
gets me through it.

Carol

keetry

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> I don't think in terms of unschooling my kids no matter how old
they
> are, to be honest.
> It isn't something I do to the kids. I would be unlikely to
say: "I
> unschool Rosie."
>
> But, sure, think in terms of the principles of unschooling -
apply
> them to infants, too. Bring the world to the child and the child
to
> the world and support their interests. For an infant, that means
one
> thing, for a 17-year-old, that means something very different.
>
> I think it is sort of unnecessary to say "We are unschoolers"
when
> school isn't required anyway. To me, it is good parenting. In the
> absence of required school, none of us would be "unschooling,"
we'd be
> living a glorious life. I only use the term "unschooling" when
talking
> to other people who want to know about this life-without-any-
school-at-
> all way we're living.
>
> > What is that anyway, 7 years
> > old? It seems to start sooner and sooner every year. Now "they"
are
> > talking about making 3 year old preschool free and accessible to
> > everyone. I think I heard Hillary Clinton talking about or read
on her
> > campaign website that she's actively involved in getting this
done
> >
> > I think I had a lot of energy, physically and mentally, before I
had
> > my 2nd child. Then I lost it. When he reached 2 I spontaneously
came
> > out of some sort of fog. It was really strange.
>
> I had the exact same experience.
>
> > I hadn't realized
> > until I came out of it just how bogged down in it I was. I had
very
> > little energy or motivation to do anything. I laugh and tell
people it
> > took me 2 years to recover from pregnancy and birth with him.
>
> Me too, I remember one day that I could see more clearly.
Literally. I
> really felt that I'd been in a fog.
> >
> >
> > I do find myself having more energy sooner with this 3rd baby
than
> > with my 2nd but I don't feel 100%, either.
>
> And you know that you probably don't even realize that you're
still a
> bit IN that fog, right?
>
> -pam


Ok. This is how I look at things, too. I'm involved in unschooling
groups because they are the closest I have found to my parenting
philosophy. I don't really think of it in terms of doing or not
doing school. It's just the way we live. I do have to catch myself
sometimes, though, when I start thinking too much in terms of school
stuff.

I'm sure I am still in a bit of a fog. My baby is not sleeping
through the night. Most nights I'm lucky if I get 5 hours of sleep
and it's never more than 2 consecutive hours. I know I'm feeling
better this time than last time, though, because I'm more motivated
to exercise.

I'm a bit frustrated right now because there is a lot that I want to
do but I don't feel up to it yet. I imagine that in a few months
we'll be doing more and a few months from that we'll be doing even
more.

Alysia