aggression
Faith Void
I have been trying to figure out how to handle my ds aggression. He is
5. He will strike first, talk later. This is generally directed at his
older sister but sometimes towards me or his father. And recently
towards other children in our homeschool playgroup. What I do is
usually ask him to stop. This is enough most of the time to get him to
physically stop and then we can talk. Other times, I physically step
in an stop him, i.e. hold his arm so that he is physically unable to
strike the person. I talk to him directly about what is going on. I
ask him how he is feeling and ask/assess what his needs are/might be.
If I can I try to facilitate a discussion between the two children to
work out an agreement. This works pretty well/ But sometimes, I get
the feeling like this isn't enough for other parents. I always try to
be fair and diplomatic. I allow both children to say their piece and
come to their own agreement. Occasionally I may offer a suggestion.
But don't require the kids to use my suggestion. I think that I am
being respectful to all parties invovled but I get the feeling that
some people think I should do more, i.e. punish or time out or
something. Is this reasonable or is there something I could be doing
differently in this situation?
Then at home with his sister, I am often unsure how much to step in.
We try to convey that everyone in our home needs to feel safe. Is is
disrespectful to my son to physically remove him if he refuses to
control himself? Like when he is hitting his sister and won't stop. He
will occasionally say "blah, blah, blah." when he doesn't want to hear
what we have to say, including "stop hitting". I feel like I try to
reason with him until he becomes unreasonable. I am just really unsure
how to be respectful. Would I would like is some outside perspective
and possible practical ideas to try.
I have been reading Raising ourselves raising our children and finding
that helpful in many ways but not this instant, I still feel confused.
We have been ap parents from the birth of our first child and have
always unschooled "educationally" but felt confused and unsure with
parenting after "pre-school" age. I have always tried to listen to my
kids and let them be my guide but eventually received so many
conflicting ideas (some helpful some less than) that I sometimes still
feel confused. I want to be respectful and loving to me kids AND I
want them to feel respected and loved. I am not sure that is always
coming acrossed. I know in part the aggression is coming from the
birth of his little sister and his feelings of confusion of being
displaced. And in part from having lead poisoning as a small child. I
don't need to stop his aggression in total, I just need to be
respectful and to help him feel good about himself. He generally feels
awful after an uncontrollable aggressive outburst. He is generally a
sweet and empathetic child,
I have internet access again and would be grateful to anyone who can
help me sort this out. I can answer questions if more information is
necessary. I wish that there was someone irl to talk this through.
Part of my confusion was from meeting people who claimed to be
unschoolers but were not. I am so happy that I found this group and
that you guys will pick everything apart and discuss it. I feel like I
can really wrap myself around ideas and impliment them in our lives
more effectively. I feel good when i come here.
thanks
Faith
5. He will strike first, talk later. This is generally directed at his
older sister but sometimes towards me or his father. And recently
towards other children in our homeschool playgroup. What I do is
usually ask him to stop. This is enough most of the time to get him to
physically stop and then we can talk. Other times, I physically step
in an stop him, i.e. hold his arm so that he is physically unable to
strike the person. I talk to him directly about what is going on. I
ask him how he is feeling and ask/assess what his needs are/might be.
If I can I try to facilitate a discussion between the two children to
work out an agreement. This works pretty well/ But sometimes, I get
the feeling like this isn't enough for other parents. I always try to
be fair and diplomatic. I allow both children to say their piece and
come to their own agreement. Occasionally I may offer a suggestion.
But don't require the kids to use my suggestion. I think that I am
being respectful to all parties invovled but I get the feeling that
some people think I should do more, i.e. punish or time out or
something. Is this reasonable or is there something I could be doing
differently in this situation?
Then at home with his sister, I am often unsure how much to step in.
We try to convey that everyone in our home needs to feel safe. Is is
disrespectful to my son to physically remove him if he refuses to
control himself? Like when he is hitting his sister and won't stop. He
will occasionally say "blah, blah, blah." when he doesn't want to hear
what we have to say, including "stop hitting". I feel like I try to
reason with him until he becomes unreasonable. I am just really unsure
how to be respectful. Would I would like is some outside perspective
and possible practical ideas to try.
I have been reading Raising ourselves raising our children and finding
that helpful in many ways but not this instant, I still feel confused.
We have been ap parents from the birth of our first child and have
always unschooled "educationally" but felt confused and unsure with
parenting after "pre-school" age. I have always tried to listen to my
kids and let them be my guide but eventually received so many
conflicting ideas (some helpful some less than) that I sometimes still
feel confused. I want to be respectful and loving to me kids AND I
want them to feel respected and loved. I am not sure that is always
coming acrossed. I know in part the aggression is coming from the
birth of his little sister and his feelings of confusion of being
displaced. And in part from having lead poisoning as a small child. I
don't need to stop his aggression in total, I just need to be
respectful and to help him feel good about himself. He generally feels
awful after an uncontrollable aggressive outburst. He is generally a
sweet and empathetic child,
I have internet access again and would be grateful to anyone who can
help me sort this out. I can answer questions if more information is
necessary. I wish that there was someone irl to talk this through.
Part of my confusion was from meeting people who claimed to be
unschoolers but were not. I am so happy that I found this group and
that you guys will pick everything apart and discuss it. I feel like I
can really wrap myself around ideas and impliment them in our lives
more effectively. I feel good when i come here.
thanks
Faith
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 24, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Faith Void wrote:
want my child to be playing with a kid who hits frequently, would you?
I think what you describe is all great, but, in addition, if hitting
is an ongoing problem, I'd take him home, immediately, if he hits. I'd
say, "The kids at the park have the right to feel safe."
I wouldn't do this for an isolated situation, but for an ongoing one?
Yeah - why would it be okay to subject the other kids to being around
a child who hits regularly?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I think that I amIf it is happening repeatedly, then I'd feel that way, too. I wouldn't
> being respectful to all parties invovled but I get the feeling that
> some people think I should do more, i.e. punish or time out or
> something. Is this reasonable or is there something I could be doing
> differently in this situation?
want my child to be playing with a kid who hits frequently, would you?
I think what you describe is all great, but, in addition, if hitting
is an ongoing problem, I'd take him home, immediately, if he hits. I'd
say, "The kids at the park have the right to feel safe."
I wouldn't do this for an isolated situation, but for an ongoing one?
Yeah - why would it be okay to subject the other kids to being around
a child who hits regularly?
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
There has been three situations. In the first one he and another boy
were hitting each other. After talking about i found out that the
other boy had jumped on his friends crackers after they had asked him
to watch out. So easy pushed him off the crackers then the other kid
hit him...etc
the second situation was another little guy kept poking Easy, he asked
him to stop several times. Easy walked away, kid followed him still
poking him and laughing. At this point I got up from nursing. Before I
got over there Easy had smacked his hand away. I asked Easy to keep
his hands to his self and placed my body between him and the other
kid. I ask the kid to stop poking. He wouldn't. His mother said that
he was "just playing". I tryed to talk with the boys but the mom keep
interjecting and being quite negating. I dropped it.
The last incident was today, a little girl kept pushing Easy but I
didn't know. he appearently got fed up and pushed her back. We talked
a little but the girls mom said shes been doing that and not to worry.
The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't know
if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations. They
weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. I feel
like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left? I am
having a hard time with drawing lines ( I was parented with ever
changing boundaries and have a hard time making good boundary
discions) Where exactly should I draw the line? If he hits at all or
if he hits first or what?
Playgrooup use to mostly be kids from 8-14 with Easy and two other
kids being the little sibs (they are all the same age), recently we
had a large influx of people and there are now like 15 kids between
4-7. So there are more social interaction issues coming up, not just
with mine. But i don't smack my kid or give him a time out. So should
I just give him a time out instead of take him home because thats what
everyone else does?
were hitting each other. After talking about i found out that the
other boy had jumped on his friends crackers after they had asked him
to watch out. So easy pushed him off the crackers then the other kid
hit him...etc
the second situation was another little guy kept poking Easy, he asked
him to stop several times. Easy walked away, kid followed him still
poking him and laughing. At this point I got up from nursing. Before I
got over there Easy had smacked his hand away. I asked Easy to keep
his hands to his self and placed my body between him and the other
kid. I ask the kid to stop poking. He wouldn't. His mother said that
he was "just playing". I tryed to talk with the boys but the mom keep
interjecting and being quite negating. I dropped it.
The last incident was today, a little girl kept pushing Easy but I
didn't know. he appearently got fed up and pushed her back. We talked
a little but the girls mom said shes been doing that and not to worry.
The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't know
if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations. They
weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. I feel
like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left? I am
having a hard time with drawing lines ( I was parented with ever
changing boundaries and have a hard time making good boundary
discions) Where exactly should I draw the line? If he hits at all or
if he hits first or what?
Playgrooup use to mostly be kids from 8-14 with Easy and two other
kids being the little sibs (they are all the same age), recently we
had a large influx of people and there are now like 15 kids between
4-7. So there are more social interaction issues coming up, not just
with mine. But i don't smack my kid or give him a time out. So should
I just give him a time out instead of take him home because thats what
everyone else does?
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Faith Void wrote:
>
> > I think that I am
> > being respectful to all parties invovled but I get the feeling that
> > some people think I should do more, i.e. punish or time out or
> > something. Is this reasonable or is there something I could be doing
> > differently in this situation?
>
> If it is happening repeatedly, then I'd feel that way, too. I wouldn't
> want my child to be playing with a kid who hits frequently, would you?
>
> I think what you describe is all great, but, in addition, if hitting
> is an ongoing problem, I'd take him home, immediately, if he hits. I'd
> say, "The kids at the park have the right to feel safe."
>
> I wouldn't do this for an isolated situation, but for an ongoing one?
> Yeah - why would it be okay to subject the other kids to being around
> a child who hits regularly?
>
> -pam
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Faith Void
I am writing again as I re-read my second post and found it very
disorganized and inarticulate. I hope this is clearer.
my kid to play with them if they are generally respectful kids. Like
easy's best friend always tells him she won't be his friend anymore if
he doesn't do what she wants. I think that isn't a great way to relate
to people but she's 5 and still learning, and in otherways a
respectfully person to him. Plus he picks his friends, not me.
right to feel safe. But so does my son. He is acting impulsively but
not maliciously. I am unsure where exactly to draw the line with the
hiting as is is reactionary as opposed to bullying. Is is more
respectful to take him away from the whole playgroup (leaving) or to
just give him a time-out (thus allowing him to stay but giving into
what the other parents expect)
don't know how long it will continue. He is slow to adapt so it may be
over soon as he is getting use to the influx of kids. He has been
bringing his DS to the park to have a safe place to escape to whe he
feels overwhelmed. This is against playgroup rules but we discussed it
as a group and everyone Ok'd it as I advocated for his needs.\
Faith
disorganized and inarticulate. I hope this is clearer.
> If it is happening repeatedly, then I'd feel that way, too. I wouldn'tI don't always like all the things that other kids do but I still want
> want my child to be playing with a kid who hits frequently, would you?\\
my kid to play with them if they are generally respectful kids. Like
easy's best friend always tells him she won't be his friend anymore if
he doesn't do what she wants. I think that isn't a great way to relate
to people but she's 5 and still learning, and in otherways a
respectfully person to him. Plus he picks his friends, not me.
>This is what is confusing to me. i totally agree the other kids have a
> I think what you describe is all great, but, in addition, if hitting
> is an ongoing problem, I'd take him home, immediately, if he hits. I'd
> say, "The kids at the park have the right to feel safe."
right to feel safe. But so does my son. He is acting impulsively but
not maliciously. I am unsure where exactly to draw the line with the
hiting as is is reactionary as opposed to bullying. Is is more
respectful to take him away from the whole playgroup (leaving) or to
just give him a time-out (thus allowing him to stay but giving into
what the other parents expect)
>What constitutes regularly? I has happened 3 times in about 6 weeks. I
> I wouldn't do this for an isolated situation, but for an ongoing one?
> Yeah - why would it be okay to subject the other kids to being around
> a child who hits regularly?
>
don't know how long it will continue. He is slow to adapt so it may be
over soon as he is getting use to the influx of kids. He has been
bringing his DS to the park to have a safe place to escape to whe he
feels overwhelmed. This is against playgroup rules but we discussed it
as a group and everyone Ok'd it as I advocated for his needs.\
Faith
Michelle Thedaker
I'm just sharing my $0.02, since I have a 4yo who can be aggressive lately.
Faith, from what you are describing below, I don't think your son has an
issue with hitting. Sounds like he is trying to resolve situations with
other kids, not being successful, and resorting to physical means to make
the other kids stop. That's totally normal, I think. From what you said in
the first post, it at first sounded like he was the instigator, and
regularly hit other kids as a bullying or sensory overload reaction, and
that this happens on a daily or weekly basis. That's what I'm dealing with
in my house. My little one is very sensitive and will only work to solve a
problem verbally for about 30 seconds, then resorts to hitting - and not
just a shove, it's windmill arms and kicking feet and being very physical,
without being able to stop himself when we say "stop". That's totally
different than a child who occaisionally falls back on physical solutions
when the more mature routes aren't working (or they just can't remember to
use them!). In *my* situation, we often have to leave the park/playdate
because he's not being at *all* safe with other children. I have also been
known to leave a park/playdate when I felt that another child was not being
safe to my children, and the parent was doing nothing to help me resolve the
situation. The kids and I also talk about how playing with some of the
friends at our homeschool group usually ends up with someone hurt or crying,
and it might be best to play with someone else instead. That doesn't always
work, but we talk about it. :)
Shell & Da Boys
Drew, 8.5 and Josh, 4.5
www.thedaker.blogspot.com <http://www.thedaker.blogspot.com/>
"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you
love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Faith Void
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] aggression
I am writing again as I re-read my second post and found it very
disorganized and inarticulate. I hope this is clearer.
my kid to play with them if they are generally respectful kids. Like
easy's best friend always tells him she won't be his friend anymore if
he doesn't do what she wants. I think that isn't a great way to relate
to people but she's 5 and still learning, and in otherways a
respectfully person to him. Plus he picks his friends, not me.
right to feel safe. But so does my son. He is acting impulsively but
not maliciously. I am unsure where exactly to draw the line with the
hiting as is is reactionary as opposed to bullying. Is is more
respectful to take him away from the whole playgroup (leaving) or to
just give him a time-out (thus allowing him to stay but giving into
what the other parents expect)
don't know how long it will continue. He is slow to adapt so it may be
over soon as he is getting use to the influx of kids. He has been
bringing his DS to the park to have a safe place to escape to whe he
feels overwhelmed. This is against playgroup rules but we discussed it
as a group and everyone Ok'd it as I advocated for his needs.\
Faith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith, from what you are describing below, I don't think your son has an
issue with hitting. Sounds like he is trying to resolve situations with
other kids, not being successful, and resorting to physical means to make
the other kids stop. That's totally normal, I think. From what you said in
the first post, it at first sounded like he was the instigator, and
regularly hit other kids as a bullying or sensory overload reaction, and
that this happens on a daily or weekly basis. That's what I'm dealing with
in my house. My little one is very sensitive and will only work to solve a
problem verbally for about 30 seconds, then resorts to hitting - and not
just a shove, it's windmill arms and kicking feet and being very physical,
without being able to stop himself when we say "stop". That's totally
different than a child who occaisionally falls back on physical solutions
when the more mature routes aren't working (or they just can't remember to
use them!). In *my* situation, we often have to leave the park/playdate
because he's not being at *all* safe with other children. I have also been
known to leave a park/playdate when I felt that another child was not being
safe to my children, and the parent was doing nothing to help me resolve the
situation. The kids and I also talk about how playing with some of the
friends at our homeschool group usually ends up with someone hurt or crying,
and it might be best to play with someone else instead. That doesn't always
work, but we talk about it. :)
Shell & Da Boys
Drew, 8.5 and Josh, 4.5
www.thedaker.blogspot.com <http://www.thedaker.blogspot.com/>
"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you
love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Faith Void
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] aggression
I am writing again as I re-read my second post and found it very
disorganized and inarticulate. I hope this is clearer.
> If it is happening repeatedly, then I'd feel that way, too. I wouldn'tI don't always like all the things that other kids do but I still want
> want my child to be playing with a kid who hits frequently, would you?\\
my kid to play with them if they are generally respectful kids. Like
easy's best friend always tells him she won't be his friend anymore if
he doesn't do what she wants. I think that isn't a great way to relate
to people but she's 5 and still learning, and in otherways a
respectfully person to him. Plus he picks his friends, not me.
>This is what is confusing to me. i totally agree the other kids have a
> I think what you describe is all great, but, in addition, if hitting
> is an ongoing problem, I'd take him home, immediately, if he hits. I'd
> say, "The kids at the park have the right to feel safe."
right to feel safe. But so does my son. He is acting impulsively but
not maliciously. I am unsure where exactly to draw the line with the
hiting as is is reactionary as opposed to bullying. Is is more
respectful to take him away from the whole playgroup (leaving) or to
just give him a time-out (thus allowing him to stay but giving into
what the other parents expect)
>What constitutes regularly? I has happened 3 times in about 6 weeks. I
> I wouldn't do this for an isolated situation, but for an ongoing one?
> Yeah - why would it be okay to subject the other kids to being around
> a child who hits regularly?
>
don't know how long it will continue. He is slow to adapt so it may be
over soon as he is getting use to the influx of kids. He has been
bringing his DS to the park to have a safe place to escape to whe he
feels overwhelmed. This is against playgroup rules but we discussed it
as a group and everyone Ok'd it as I advocated for his needs.\
Faith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
I don't think 3 times in 6 weeks warrants leaving the playgroup next
time it happens, esp since it sounds like the other kids were getting
physical also. It sounds like you are doing a good job trying to
help him through it at the HS group. I don't think it is right to
give him a time-out to appease other parents. What you might
consider doing is to have him come sit with you and take a break to
cool off, if it appears he needs to. Otherwise, you talked to him,
so you handled it. In new situations, it might be wise to keep close
to him since you know he is prone to hitting. That way if you see a
situation escalating, you can intervene.
At home, I would absolutely remove him from a situation if he started
hitting and did not stop. I don't think stopping a child from
hitting is disrespectful to him.
Karen
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
time it happens, esp since it sounds like the other kids were getting
physical also. It sounds like you are doing a good job trying to
help him through it at the HS group. I don't think it is right to
give him a time-out to appease other parents. What you might
consider doing is to have him come sit with you and take a break to
cool off, if it appears he needs to. Otherwise, you talked to him,
so you handled it. In new situations, it might be wise to keep close
to him since you know he is prone to hitting. That way if you see a
situation escalating, you can intervene.
At home, I would absolutely remove him from a situation if he started
hitting and did not stop. I don't think stopping a child from
hitting is disrespectful to him.
Karen
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>weeks. I
> >
>
>
> What constitutes regularly? I has happened 3 times in about 6
> don't know how long it will continue. He is slow to adapt so it maybe
> over soon as he is getting use to the influx of kids. He has beenit
> bringing his DS to the park to have a safe place to escape to whe he
> feels overwhelmed. This is against playgroup rules but we discussed
> as a group and everyone Ok'd it as I advocated for his needs.\
>
> Faith
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Faith Void wrote:
- the first thing I suggest is you print both posts and read them
carefully and think more about how you are perceiving things. Try to
get a really clear and honest picture of what is really going on. Your
confusion about what to do about it is partly, at least, because of
your lack of clarity about what is really happening.
You started your previous post with:
"I have been trying to figure out how to handle my ds aggression. He is
5. He will strike first, talk later. This is generally directed at his
older sister but sometimes towards me or his father. And recently
towards other children in our homeschool playgroup. "
But now you're saying this has happened just 3 times. And, according
to the second post, he didn't strike first, he was provoked by another
kid's poking or pushing, tried to get away and/or even asked the other
kid to stop, and then resorted to pushing. That's not "strike first."
I'm not complaining about being misled - I'm saying that it will help
you to get the "issue" clear first, before looking for solutions.
Remind your son that when other kids are bothering him in some way -
"get help from a grown-up" should come before "hitting or pushing."
Lots of parents talk too much. Check whether you're doing that - you
don't want to talk so much that he tunes you out. Make things simple.
"As soon as you think you might hit or push, stop and come and ask me
for help."
And, don't even pay attention to what other parents might be doing to
their kids. You know better, you have to try to live up to your own
ideals, not down to theirs.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't knowThis post presents the situation a bit differently than the first. So
> if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations. They
> weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. I feel
> like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left? I am
> having a hard time with drawing lines ( I was parented with ever
> changing boundaries and have a hard time making good boundary
> discions) Where exactly should I draw the line? If he hits at all or
> if he hits first or what?
- the first thing I suggest is you print both posts and read them
carefully and think more about how you are perceiving things. Try to
get a really clear and honest picture of what is really going on. Your
confusion about what to do about it is partly, at least, because of
your lack of clarity about what is really happening.
You started your previous post with:
"I have been trying to figure out how to handle my ds aggression. He is
5. He will strike first, talk later. This is generally directed at his
older sister but sometimes towards me or his father. And recently
towards other children in our homeschool playgroup. "
But now you're saying this has happened just 3 times. And, according
to the second post, he didn't strike first, he was provoked by another
kid's poking or pushing, tried to get away and/or even asked the other
kid to stop, and then resorted to pushing. That's not "strike first."
I'm not complaining about being misled - I'm saying that it will help
you to get the "issue" clear first, before looking for solutions.
Remind your son that when other kids are bothering him in some way -
"get help from a grown-up" should come before "hitting or pushing."
Lots of parents talk too much. Check whether you're doing that - you
don't want to talk so much that he tunes you out. Make things simple.
"As soon as you think you might hit or push, stop and come and ask me
for help."
And, don't even pay attention to what other parents might be doing to
their kids. You know better, you have to try to live up to your own
ideals, not down to theirs.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I spent yesterday turning this all over in my head and observing
myself, my son and our interactions.
own sister frequently. Many times without talking to her about whats
bothering him first. he had never hit another child until recently,
that freaked me out a bit (when it happened). My fear was that it
would escalate to more aggressive behavior. I realized (thanks to you
asking me to examine my perspective) that he was not being aggressive
but just handling the situations in a less than ideal manner. I have
been helping him work out those issues so my fear is unfounded, unless
it escalates and I can "cross that bridge..."
met anyones needs anymore. I think my oldest with be upset if I just
drop it altogether but if I can figure a way to replace it. it is
really difficult to be around people who are so disrespectful of their
kids. I didn't mean I should give him a time out as punishment (like
they do) I just felt like leaving entirely would be a bigger
punishment to his sister. I idea was not well written. I thought to
sit near to him away from the group and calmly discuss this or be
quiet with him. Making it look like
myself, my son and our interactions.
>I re-read the post and realized the lack of clarity. My son hits his
> But now you're saying this has happened just 3 times. And, according
> to the second post, he didn't strike first, he was provoked by another
> kid's poking or pushing, tried to get away and/or even asked the other
> kid to stop, and then resorted to pushing. That's not "strike first."
>
> I'm not complaining about being misled - I'm saying that it will help
> you to get the "issue" clear first, before looking for solutions.
own sister frequently. Many times without talking to her about whats
bothering him first. he had never hit another child until recently,
that freaked me out a bit (when it happened). My fear was that it
would escalate to more aggressive behavior. I realized (thanks to you
asking me to examine my perspective) that he was not being aggressive
but just handling the situations in a less than ideal manner. I have
been helping him work out those issues so my fear is unfounded, unless
it escalates and I can "cross that bridge..."
>I have been saying this, so I will just be patient (not my forte).
> Remind your son that when other kids are bothering him in some way -
> "get help from a grown-up" should come before "hitting or pushing."
>
> Lots of parents talk too much. Check whether you're doing that - you
> don't want to talk so much that he tunes you out. Make things simple.
> "As soon as you think you might hit or push, stop and come and ask me
> for help."
>I am considering starting my own playgroup. This one doesn't really
> And, don't even pay attention to what other parents might be doing to
> their kids. You know better, you have to try to live up to your own
> ideals, not down to theirs.
met anyones needs anymore. I think my oldest with be upset if I just
drop it altogether but if I can figure a way to replace it. it is
really difficult to be around people who are so disrespectful of their
kids. I didn't mean I should give him a time out as punishment (like
they do) I just felt like leaving entirely would be a bigger
punishment to his sister. I idea was not well written. I thought to
sit near to him away from the group and calmly discuss this or be
quiet with him. Making it look like
carenkh
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
thought you might want to put out a call for more like-minded parents. lol
I just read a notice today for a playgroup here, where the e-mail said
something like "we practice respectful positive parenting and conflict
resolution rather than punishment". I thought that got the message
across really well.
Caren
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>Yeah, when I read that playing a DS was "against playgroup rules", I
> I am considering starting my own playgroup. This one doesn't really
> met anyones needs anymore.
thought you might want to put out a call for more like-minded parents. lol
I just read a notice today for a playgroup here, where the e-mail said
something like "we practice respectful positive parenting and conflict
resolution rather than punishment". I thought that got the message
across really well.
Caren
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
put in time out?
-Kelly
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>know
>
> On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Faith Void wrote:
>
> > The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't
> > if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations.They
> > weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. Ifeel
> > like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left?I have been at playgrounds where other children provoke and the
parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
put in time out?
-Kelly
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:13 AM, Faith Void wrote:
is a problem. Hover! I recently heard the term "helicopter mom!" It is
used to describe over-controlling mothers who don't let their kids
handle their own problems. I don't see that as being a common problem.
But parents being a bit unavailable, a little too detached --- that I
see a LOT. Even in homeschooling/unschooling parents.
When you are at home, you apparently need to be more present when he
and his sister are together. If you're more aware, you'll see things
leading up to him hitting her and you can step in. Lots of times you
can just sense the tension rising in him and you can say some little
thing to distract him - or even invite him to go do something with
you. Break the tension.
When you're out with other kids - the temptation is to sit with the
moms and gab, but you need to be nearby your son to be able to help
him. He doesn't have the impulse control, yet, to stop his anger long
enough to go get an adult to help him. So be RIGHT there ready to
help. He won't need you to do that forever, just for this
developmental stage.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> thought toI think you should do that, be there for him. But, do it before there
> sit near to him away from the group and calmly discuss this or be
> quiet with him. Making it look like
is a problem. Hover! I recently heard the term "helicopter mom!" It is
used to describe over-controlling mothers who don't let their kids
handle their own problems. I don't see that as being a common problem.
But parents being a bit unavailable, a little too detached --- that I
see a LOT. Even in homeschooling/unschooling parents.
When you are at home, you apparently need to be more present when he
and his sister are together. If you're more aware, you'll see things
leading up to him hitting her and you can step in. Lots of times you
can just sense the tension rising in him and you can say some little
thing to distract him - or even invite him to go do something with
you. Break the tension.
When you're out with other kids - the temptation is to sit with the
moms and gab, but you need to be nearby your son to be able to help
him. He doesn't have the impulse control, yet, to stop his anger long
enough to go get an adult to help him. So be RIGHT there ready to
help. He won't need you to do that forever, just for this
developmental stage.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
If I see provocation going on I try and step in and distract. I figure it is my joy and my job to try and help Simon and Linnaea not to be harrassed by others or get to a point where they go back on the attack. If I miss the moment, if they do get anger and react, I try and step in then. If anyone frowns on my child or me I try and ignore it. Actually I've never noticed having my response to Simon or Linnaea be frowned upon except by in-laws and my dad. But my dad I know too well to not notice when he is frowning on something.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 March, 2008 11:49:20 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Other people's expectations was Re: aggression
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
put in time out?
-Kelly
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 March, 2008 11:49:20 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Other people's expectations was Re: aggression
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>know
>
> On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Faith Void wrote:
>
> > The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't
> > if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations.They
> > weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. Ifeel
> > like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left?I have been at playgrounds where other children provoke and the
parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
put in time out?
-Kelly
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Adrean Clark
I am curious, does that mean we need to step in every time kids get
angry? I've been told "boys are boys, let them work it out". Is that
ever valid advice and when?
I am also wondering abt a situation we had last night.
A friend gave the twins a Spiderman costume. Both of them wanted to
wear it. Armand got to it first so I negotiated with them that Azel
gets the costume when we arrive home. When we got home Azel was
asleep. So Armand played with it more. Azel woke up, puttered around a
little. Hours later he wanted the costume. He got upset and started
squealing - then I asked Armand to give him the costume since its
Azel's turn. He refused, so I told Azel Armand doesn't want to share
so we'll have to wait a bit.
At some point I find Armand pummeling Azel - (remember I can't hear if
they're talking or screaming at each other) - and I physically remove
him. He says Azel said he was stupid, and Azel says he told Jael to
stop (whatever he was doing on the computer). I explain what Azel was
saying and perhaps shld have watched him longer because I find Armand
hitting again and remove him. "You are not being safe!" I put him in
the hall and say to stay there - "You are being mean and hitting
people - that is not safe. When you calm down and feel you can be safe
around others, then you can come out." Armand comes out on his own and
later takes off the costume so Azel can have it.
All this time I'm trying to pack and wash clothes for our trip today.
This situation, they got angry at different points. Which portions
could have been resolved without me, because I only seem to have
served as a stopgap measure? I didn't stop Armand from punching his
brother until after the fact, because I didn't see him in time. What
didn't I think of? What would you do?
Adrean
angry? I've been told "boys are boys, let them work it out". Is that
ever valid advice and when?
I am also wondering abt a situation we had last night.
A friend gave the twins a Spiderman costume. Both of them wanted to
wear it. Armand got to it first so I negotiated with them that Azel
gets the costume when we arrive home. When we got home Azel was
asleep. So Armand played with it more. Azel woke up, puttered around a
little. Hours later he wanted the costume. He got upset and started
squealing - then I asked Armand to give him the costume since its
Azel's turn. He refused, so I told Azel Armand doesn't want to share
so we'll have to wait a bit.
At some point I find Armand pummeling Azel - (remember I can't hear if
they're talking or screaming at each other) - and I physically remove
him. He says Azel said he was stupid, and Azel says he told Jael to
stop (whatever he was doing on the computer). I explain what Azel was
saying and perhaps shld have watched him longer because I find Armand
hitting again and remove him. "You are not being safe!" I put him in
the hall and say to stay there - "You are being mean and hitting
people - that is not safe. When you calm down and feel you can be safe
around others, then you can come out." Armand comes out on his own and
later takes off the costume so Azel can have it.
All this time I'm trying to pack and wash clothes for our trip today.
This situation, they got angry at different points. Which portions
could have been resolved without me, because I only seem to have
served as a stopgap measure? I didn't stop Armand from punching his
brother until after the fact, because I didn't see him in time. What
didn't I think of? What would you do?
Adrean
On 3/27/08, ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
> If I see provocation going on I try and step in and distract. I figure it is
> my joy and my job to try and help Simon and Linnaea not to be harrassed by
> others or get to a point where they go back on the attack. If I miss the
> moment, if they do get anger and react, I try and step in then. If anyone
> frowns on my child or me I try and ignore it. Actually I've never noticed
> having my response to Simon or Linnaea be frowned upon except by in-laws and
> my dad. But my dad I know too well to not notice when he is frowning on
> something.
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 March, 2008 11:49:20 PM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Other people's expectations was Re: aggression
>
> --- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Faith Void wrote:
> >
> > > The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't
> know
> > > if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations.
> They
> > > weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. I
> feel
> > > like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left?
>
> I have been at playgrounds where other children provoke and the
> parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
> and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
> just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
> son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
> their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
> feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
> should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
> the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
> To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
> am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
> described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
> put in time out?
> -Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 27, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Adrean Clark wrote:
being kids left to figure it out themselves and what happened was the
stronger one intimidates the weaker one. The parent doesn't see even
a small portion of what the stronger one is doing. It's really nasty.
When you see things escalating, call one away to do something fun
with you: get snacks, carry laundry for you.
doesn't trust that you'll help him. So he needs to escalate immediately.
they can have what they need so they need to fight to hold onto it
and fight to get it. Even if you've changed parenting them, it's
going to take a while before they trust that you're on their side.
Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry?
http://tinyurl.com/2kocod
feel safe.
But the way you've worded it is as a rule. Kids don't hit for no
reason. When the focus shifts away from what they were trying to get
to the way they were trying to get it, they feel like no one
understands and no one's listening.
For instance, if someone were saying foul things to you on and on and
on and you got to the point where you couldn't think what else to do
but punch them, and someone grabbed you and went on and on about how
you shouldn't punch people, how would you feel?
Try reading these pages from Sandra Dodd:
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Not to load you down with too much reading! but you might also try
Alfe Kohn's Punished by Rewards
http://tinyurl.com/yug3xd
Joyce
> I am curious, does that mean we need to step in every time kids getThere have been so many stories over the years that adults tell of
> angry? I've been told "boys are boys, let them work it out". Is that
> ever valid advice and when?
being kids left to figure it out themselves and what happened was the
stronger one intimidates the weaker one. The parent doesn't see even
a small portion of what the stronger one is doing. It's really nasty.
When you see things escalating, call one away to do something fun
with you: get snacks, carry laundry for you.
> Hours later he wanted the costume. He got upset and startedSounds like he doesn't trust that he can get what he wants and
> squealing
doesn't trust that you'll help him. So he needs to escalate immediately.
> then I asked Armand to give him the costume since itsThis sounds like a problem that's running deep. They don't trust that
> Azel's turn. He refused, so I told Azel Armand doesn't want to share
> so we'll have to wait a bit.
they can have what they need so they need to fight to hold onto it
and fight to get it. Even if you've changed parenting them, it's
going to take a while before they trust that you're on their side.
Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry?
http://tinyurl.com/2kocod
> "You are not being safe!" I put him inAbsolutely do stop them from hitting. Tell them everyone needs to
> the hall and say to stay there - "You are being mean and hitting
> people - that is not safe. When you calm down and feel you can be safe
> around others, then you can come out."
feel safe.
But the way you've worded it is as a rule. Kids don't hit for no
reason. When the focus shifts away from what they were trying to get
to the way they were trying to get it, they feel like no one
understands and no one's listening.
For instance, if someone were saying foul things to you on and on and
on and you got to the point where you couldn't think what else to do
but punch them, and someone grabbed you and went on and on about how
you shouldn't punch people, how would you feel?
Try reading these pages from Sandra Dodd:
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
Not to load you down with too much reading! but you might also try
Alfe Kohn's Punished by Rewards
http://tinyurl.com/yug3xd
Joyce
Jodi Bezzola
It's been interesting for me to read this about twins fighting. I have read lots and lots about siblings (including Sibling Rivalry) and I'm still often stumped about how to best handle struggles between my girls. They are both 3, so it's not like there's a big one and a little one, they are at the same age and same stage and often want the same thing (perhaps just because the other wants it). There are lots of toys, etc. in the house, and many things we have brought in in 2's so they have their own things. Is there anyone out there with twins that are little? How did you handle this? I stay close, I observe them all the time, I intervene to help them work things out as soon as I see something I think will escalate, and I still often feel I could handle their conflict better. How can I help them to trust they can get what they need/have what they want so it doesn't escalate like this??
Jodi
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
I've been watching this discussion, as I've got a girl who fights, dd2, who
is about to turn 5. I do believe that she hits and destroys things for a
reason. She feels hurt, ignored, curious (she just LOVES the scissors --
and has to try it out on EVERYthing), etc. I know that this is how she
handles the hurt that's inside her, and how she sometimes handles her
exploration.
Concerning how she handles her hurt feelings, we've been trying to work with
her for a couple of years now. And I feel almost completely out of patience
(some days I have less than zero patience). We're so utterly frustrated
with this, we're reacting more to her instead of responding mindfully (NOT
good). Hitting, spitting, throwing things at the object of her anger is her
first response. Her second is to let it sit, and hours later systematically
shred a picture dd1 had made.
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
Hovering may be good for us until she learns to pause before mixing it up.
Leaving the park immediately would be good except that it seems unfair to
dd1 who's been doing just fine. No-win, but leaving early is probably the
better choice.
As you can tell, I'm rambling and venting. Just had to get this out.
Arrrgh!!!
--Rob Saxon
"Daddy!" to Elissa (almost 5!) and Genevieve (6)
DH to Seana for 11 years
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is about to turn 5. I do believe that she hits and destroys things for a
reason. She feels hurt, ignored, curious (she just LOVES the scissors --
and has to try it out on EVERYthing), etc. I know that this is how she
handles the hurt that's inside her, and how she sometimes handles her
exploration.
Concerning how she handles her hurt feelings, we've been trying to work with
her for a couple of years now. And I feel almost completely out of patience
(some days I have less than zero patience). We're so utterly frustrated
with this, we're reacting more to her instead of responding mindfully (NOT
good). Hitting, spitting, throwing things at the object of her anger is her
first response. Her second is to let it sit, and hours later systematically
shred a picture dd1 had made.
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
Hovering may be good for us until she learns to pause before mixing it up.
Leaving the park immediately would be good except that it seems unfair to
dd1 who's been doing just fine. No-win, but leaving early is probably the
better choice.
As you can tell, I'm rambling and venting. Just had to get this out.
Arrrgh!!!
--Rob Saxon
"Daddy!" to Elissa (almost 5!) and Genevieve (6)
DH to Seana for 11 years
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
I have twins that are 4 now, and we have had more than our fair share
of aggression. I think staying close and intervening when necessary
helps. I did a ton of this, so much so that my house was filthy most
the time. I also did a lot of coaching them to ask for a turn, and
to wait until the first one is finished. I would entertain the one
who had to wait until the first was finished with the toy. I felt
very strongly that whoever was playing with the toy first should get
to examine it and enjoy it without someone continually pestering them
for a turn. When they know they will get to fully enjoy something,
they are much more willing to share it.
If one hits the other, I try to focus on the injured party and
helping him feel better. If his twin seems receptive, I ask him if
he wants to help comfort him also. If they are both injured, I just
talk about it is a shame they are both hurt and how much more fun it
is when they are having fun together.
What has gotten harder as they have gotten older is they will play
for a long time (an hour or more) before getting into a fight. Then
I am usually doing something else, and I have no idea what happened
and who provoked who. Still, I am working on trying to comfort
without blaming.
and I'm still often stumped about how to best handle struggles
between my girls. They are both 3, so it's not like there's a big
one and a little one, they are at the same age and same stage and
often want the same thing (perhaps just because the other wants it).
There are lots of toys, etc. in the house, and many things we have
brought in in 2's so they have their own things. Is there anyone out
there with twins that are little? How did you handle this? I stay
close, I observe them all the time, I intervene to help them work
things out as soon as I see something I think will escalate, and I
still often feel I could handle their conflict better. How can I
help them to trust they can get what they need/have what they want so
it doesn't escalate like this??
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
I have twins that are 4 now, and we have had more than our fair share
of aggression. I think staying close and intervening when necessary
helps. I did a ton of this, so much so that my house was filthy most
the time. I also did a lot of coaching them to ask for a turn, and
to wait until the first one is finished. I would entertain the one
who had to wait until the first was finished with the toy. I felt
very strongly that whoever was playing with the toy first should get
to examine it and enjoy it without someone continually pestering them
for a turn. When they know they will get to fully enjoy something,
they are much more willing to share it.
If one hits the other, I try to focus on the injured party and
helping him feel better. If his twin seems receptive, I ask him if
he wants to help comfort him also. If they are both injured, I just
talk about it is a shame they are both hurt and how much more fun it
is when they are having fun together.
What has gotten harder as they have gotten older is they will play
for a long time (an hour or more) before getting into a fight. Then
I am usually doing something else, and I have no idea what happened
and who provoked who. Still, I am working on trying to comfort
without blaming.
>have read lots and lots about siblings (including Sibling Rivalry)
> It's been interesting for me to read this about twins fighting. I
and I'm still often stumped about how to best handle struggles
between my girls. They are both 3, so it's not like there's a big
one and a little one, they are at the same age and same stage and
often want the same thing (perhaps just because the other wants it).
There are lots of toys, etc. in the house, and many things we have
brought in in 2's so they have their own things. Is there anyone out
there with twins that are little? How did you handle this? I stay
close, I observe them all the time, I intervene to help them work
things out as soon as I see something I think will escalate, and I
still often feel I could handle their conflict better. How can I
help them to trust they can get what they need/have what they want so
it doesn't escalate like this??
>
> Jodi
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jodi Bezzola
~~I also did a lot of coaching them to ask for a turn, and
to wait until the first one is finished. I would entertain the one
who had to wait until the first was finished with the toy. I felt
very strongly that whoever was playing with the toy first should get
to examine it and enjoy it without someone continually pestering them
for a turn. When they know they will get to fully enjoy something,
they are much more willing to share it.~~
I definitely stick close by, and even if I'm doing laundry or something else, I am very attuned to every communication and if they're getting along or not. It can go from 0 - 100 *so* fast though, that sometimes I don't catch it in time.
I really like the idea of each one getting to fully enjoy whatever it is they've chosen, I think this is key. It might be the part I've been missing. I often feel bad for them that they have to be looking over their shoulder waiting for the other one to come and grab something they're enjoying.
I do coach them constantly to take turns (instead of saying 'share'), because they seem to get what taking turns means. It doesn't mean they're always willing to do it, but they get the concept. I will try entertaining the one that is waiting and see if that gives them a ltitle more breathing room, that's a great idea.
Thanks!
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to wait until the first one is finished. I would entertain the one
who had to wait until the first was finished with the toy. I felt
very strongly that whoever was playing with the toy first should get
to examine it and enjoy it without someone continually pestering them
for a turn. When they know they will get to fully enjoy something,
they are much more willing to share it.~~
I definitely stick close by, and even if I'm doing laundry or something else, I am very attuned to every communication and if they're getting along or not. It can go from 0 - 100 *so* fast though, that sometimes I don't catch it in time.
I really like the idea of each one getting to fully enjoy whatever it is they've chosen, I think this is key. It might be the part I've been missing. I often feel bad for them that they have to be looking over their shoulder waiting for the other one to come and grab something they're enjoying.
I do coach them constantly to take turns (instead of saying 'share'), because they seem to get what taking turns means. It doesn't mean they're always willing to do it, but they get the concept. I will try entertaining the one that is waiting and see if that gives them a ltitle more breathing room, that's a great idea.
Thanks!
Jodi
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
I've been watching this discussion, as I've got a girl who fights, dd2, who
is about to turn 5. I do believe that she hits and destroys things for a
reason. She feels hurt, ignored, curious (she just LOVES the scissors --
and has to try it out on EVERYthing), etc. I know that this is how she
handles the hurt that's inside her, and how she sometimes handles her
exploration.
===================
Redirection is a good tool to have if someone is exploring in a dangerous way, or even a way that can add stress. I wrote about Linnaea and her friend playing with flour the other day at the bottom of the stairs. David (dh) got upset. The floor there is parquet, so lots of little bits of wood with lots of little crevices. Instead of telling them to stop or him to mellow out, I moved the play to a better room and made sure that I was the one to clean it up when they were done. If I'd let it unfold the way it was beginning, with tension and resentment building, it could have blown up into an aggressive encounter. By moving between the two parties and coming up with something that allowed both goals to be met, flour not on parquet floor and flour play period, it didn't get to bad feelings.
Linnaea tends to feel jealous over things. Last night she felt jealous that Simon was going to sleep with me (David had chosen to sleep in another room as he had to work this morning and we were up late watching My Name is Earl so there was a spare space in the parental bed). She felt bad about feeling jealous. Like it meant she wasn't a good person or that it wasn't fair to Simon that she felt so jealous. I said that I love that she wants to be with me so much that she wants all of my time. And it is true, it is a compliment to me how much she wants my attention. I said I wish her desire to be with me didn't leave her feeling bad. And she snuggled deeper into me and I read to her. I don't know if it helped, but it made me feel better. It helped me to have a less angry stance on her jealousy, her competition with her brother. I know that when I look at the direct time I spend with Linnaea and the direct time I spend with Simon, I spend far more with
Linnaea. Sometimes it is easy for me to feel angry or bitter or resentful that she is saying that she doesn't want Simon to get my attention. It helped last night to look at it from a different perspective.
====================
Concerning how she handles her hurt feelings, we've been trying to work with
her for a couple of years now. And I feel almost completely out of patience
(some days I have less than zero patience). We're so utterly frustrated
with this, we're reacting more to her instead of responding mindfully (NOT
good). Hitting, spitting, throwing things at the object of her anger is her
first response. Her second is to let it sit, and hours later systematically
shred a picture dd1 had made.
=====================
What is she like when she isn't hurt or angry? Can you think about her in that light more frequently? I went through a period of walking on eggshells around Linnaea of defining her more by her angry and reactive moments than by her joyful and laughing ones. It helps me to be kind to her when I can think of her as funny and engaging and joyful and sparky and interesting and chatty and filled with motion and light. It doesn't change her, I can't do that. I can't make her not jealous or not angry or not reactive. But I can be kind to her when she needs me to be kind. I can be filled with patience and energy and generousity. It helps me to be the parent that I want to be.
====================
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
Hovering may be good for us until she learns to pause before mixing it up.
Leaving the park immediately would be good except that it seems unfair to
dd1 who's been doing just fine. No-win, but leaving early is probably the
better choice.
===================
If you left early to dd1's dismay, could you go do something else that they would both enjoy? Something like go and get ice cream or go to a video store and pick out a DVD to watch when you get home or something instead that makes it feel not like punishment but like what it is, avoiding an unpleasant encounter. In my experience, hovering tends to help eliminate a lot of the need to bail on an activity. If you come to the park with lots of cool things to play with and are totally prepared to play Billy Goats Gruff over and over again, there isn't a lot of need or stress about being at the park.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
is about to turn 5. I do believe that she hits and destroys things for a
reason. She feels hurt, ignored, curious (she just LOVES the scissors --
and has to try it out on EVERYthing), etc. I know that this is how she
handles the hurt that's inside her, and how she sometimes handles her
exploration.
===================
Redirection is a good tool to have if someone is exploring in a dangerous way, or even a way that can add stress. I wrote about Linnaea and her friend playing with flour the other day at the bottom of the stairs. David (dh) got upset. The floor there is parquet, so lots of little bits of wood with lots of little crevices. Instead of telling them to stop or him to mellow out, I moved the play to a better room and made sure that I was the one to clean it up when they were done. If I'd let it unfold the way it was beginning, with tension and resentment building, it could have blown up into an aggressive encounter. By moving between the two parties and coming up with something that allowed both goals to be met, flour not on parquet floor and flour play period, it didn't get to bad feelings.
Linnaea tends to feel jealous over things. Last night she felt jealous that Simon was going to sleep with me (David had chosen to sleep in another room as he had to work this morning and we were up late watching My Name is Earl so there was a spare space in the parental bed). She felt bad about feeling jealous. Like it meant she wasn't a good person or that it wasn't fair to Simon that she felt so jealous. I said that I love that she wants to be with me so much that she wants all of my time. And it is true, it is a compliment to me how much she wants my attention. I said I wish her desire to be with me didn't leave her feeling bad. And she snuggled deeper into me and I read to her. I don't know if it helped, but it made me feel better. It helped me to have a less angry stance on her jealousy, her competition with her brother. I know that when I look at the direct time I spend with Linnaea and the direct time I spend with Simon, I spend far more with
Linnaea. Sometimes it is easy for me to feel angry or bitter or resentful that she is saying that she doesn't want Simon to get my attention. It helped last night to look at it from a different perspective.
====================
Concerning how she handles her hurt feelings, we've been trying to work with
her for a couple of years now. And I feel almost completely out of patience
(some days I have less than zero patience). We're so utterly frustrated
with this, we're reacting more to her instead of responding mindfully (NOT
good). Hitting, spitting, throwing things at the object of her anger is her
first response. Her second is to let it sit, and hours later systematically
shred a picture dd1 had made.
=====================
What is she like when she isn't hurt or angry? Can you think about her in that light more frequently? I went through a period of walking on eggshells around Linnaea of defining her more by her angry and reactive moments than by her joyful and laughing ones. It helps me to be kind to her when I can think of her as funny and engaging and joyful and sparky and interesting and chatty and filled with motion and light. It doesn't change her, I can't do that. I can't make her not jealous or not angry or not reactive. But I can be kind to her when she needs me to be kind. I can be filled with patience and energy and generousity. It helps me to be the parent that I want to be.
====================
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
Hovering may be good for us until she learns to pause before mixing it up.
Leaving the park immediately would be good except that it seems unfair to
dd1 who's been doing just fine. No-win, but leaving early is probably the
better choice.
===================
If you left early to dd1's dismay, could you go do something else that they would both enjoy? Something like go and get ice cream or go to a video store and pick out a DVD to watch when you get home or something instead that makes it feel not like punishment but like what it is, avoiding an unpleasant encounter. In my experience, hovering tends to help eliminate a lot of the need to bail on an activity. If you come to the park with lots of cool things to play with and are totally prepared to play Billy Goats Gruff over and over again, there isn't a lot of need or stress about being at the park.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
================
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
===============
I wanted to respond to this. I've always figured that Simon and Linnaea don't have to like each other. I have very little contact with my brother. I don't think it is because we don't like each other, but because we don't have a lot to talk about. So I figure that Simon and Linnaea may only spend a small part of their lives (I hope) together under my roof. The only relationship that I can make good is the one they have with me. I make sure that they are safe and that they aren't harrassed by each other. I step in when I feel that I need to, but I can't make them like each other. Amazingly enough, they often do.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, we have not read Siblings Without Rivalry, but it sounds like we need
to. dd1 does not like to be around her sister. I'm afraid this is really
hurting their relationship.
===============
I wanted to respond to this. I've always figured that Simon and Linnaea don't have to like each other. I have very little contact with my brother. I don't think it is because we don't like each other, but because we don't have a lot to talk about. So I figure that Simon and Linnaea may only spend a small part of their lives (I hope) together under my roof. The only relationship that I can make good is the one they have with me. I make sure that they are safe and that they aren't harrassed by each other. I step in when I feel that I need to, but I can't make them like each other. Amazingly enough, they often do.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Bezzola
~~I said that I love that she wants to be with me so much that she wants all of my time. And it is true, it is a compliment to me how much she wants my attention. I said I wish her desire to be with me didn't leave her feeling bad. And she snuggled deeper into me and I read to her. I don't know if it helped, but it made me feel better. It helped me to have a less angry stance on her jealousy, her competition with her brother.~~
I love this. I love that my thoughts about *everything* are constantly being challenged and flipped by the discussions on this list. What a beautiful way too look at sibling jealousy.
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I love this. I love that my thoughts about *everything* are constantly being challenged and flipped by the discussions on this list. What a beautiful way too look at sibling jealousy.
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I agree with you, very frequently parents ignore their own children's
part in conflict and scapegoat other children. I have deep issues with
this being "normal" in playgroups. In the situations that I wrote
about once was very respectful, the parent of the boy and my son and I
talked and helped the boys work things out. The other two occurrences
were me trying to work things out between the kids as respectfully as
possible, most parents thinking and have said that it is too much
trouble to mediate. They are the ones that openly or passively voice
their expectations that I punish. One mother is so oblivious to her
kids it hurts. She is constantly negating them, even the baby. I
really long to find some more like minded parents but haven't found
others who parent gently after the "pre-school" years. Its like AP
parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.
faith
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:49 PM, barefootmamax4
<barefootmamax4@...> wrote:
part in conflict and scapegoat other children. I have deep issues with
this being "normal" in playgroups. In the situations that I wrote
about once was very respectful, the parent of the boy and my son and I
talked and helped the boys work things out. The other two occurrences
were me trying to work things out between the kids as respectfully as
possible, most parents thinking and have said that it is too much
trouble to mediate. They are the ones that openly or passively voice
their expectations that I punish. One mother is so oblivious to her
kids it hurts. She is constantly negating them, even the baby. I
really long to find some more like minded parents but haven't found
others who parent gently after the "pre-school" years. Its like AP
parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.
faith
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 7:49 PM, barefootmamax4
<barefootmamax4@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Faith Void wrote:
> >
> > > The other parents do time outs and take away privileges. I don't
> know
> > > if leaving the playgroup would be warranted in these situations.
> They
> > > weren't OK for him to hit but they weren't unprovoked either. I
> feel
> > > like I talked about it with him. Do you think I should have left?
>
> I have been at playgrounds where other children provoke and the
> parents turn a blind eye. When one of mine finally looses patience
> and pushes the kid away or hits, then the parents will glare at me or
> just stare with this expectant look.Some will even say "Don't push my
> son!" Even though I know that my child was provoked and they ignored
> their own, that "expectant look" is very, very potent and makes me
> feel as if I should be doing something more when I really know that I
> should not. I usually end up leaving, but feeling resentful because
> the situation is so crooked. Is there any other way?
> To the OP, this may not be similar to what your experience is,but I
> am curious as to what the parents did in the situations you
> described? Did any of those kids that hit or poked get spoken to or
> put in time out?
> -Kelly
>
>
Jodi Bezzola
~~Its like AP parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.~~
I have found this too, seems like it's easy to grasp trust and respect with babies, but when the babies grow up and start speaking up, the trust and respect seems to part company with many families. I am part of a large AP group in my city, and lots of the kids are getting older. The talk now centers on finding the perfect preschool and finding the perfect discipline method to have perfect little compliant kids. I find I am just sort of naturally moving away from that group and more towards my local unschooling crowd. With the unschooling families my girls and I get to hang out with parents who trust and respect their kids so much, and it's beautiful to see how settled and happy the kids are. We've had many many playtimes where there hasn't been a single conflict between any of the kids - they just seem more relaxed about life in general. It's so challenging for us to be around other families that aren't living consensually that we just don't choose to do it very
often anymore. When I speak up about what we're doing I get looks like I've just landed from another planet. Lots of this stuff wasn't an issue when all our kids were babies, but the differences are really showing up now.
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have found this too, seems like it's easy to grasp trust and respect with babies, but when the babies grow up and start speaking up, the trust and respect seems to part company with many families. I am part of a large AP group in my city, and lots of the kids are getting older. The talk now centers on finding the perfect preschool and finding the perfect discipline method to have perfect little compliant kids. I find I am just sort of naturally moving away from that group and more towards my local unschooling crowd. With the unschooling families my girls and I get to hang out with parents who trust and respect their kids so much, and it's beautiful to see how settled and happy the kids are. We've had many many playtimes where there hasn't been a single conflict between any of the kids - they just seem more relaxed about life in general. It's so challenging for us to be around other families that aren't living consensually that we just don't choose to do it very
often anymore. When I speak up about what we're doing I get looks like I've just landed from another planet. Lots of this stuff wasn't an issue when all our kids were babies, but the differences are really showing up now.
Jodi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
thing are all clear on meeting the needs of babies like in arms, family
bed, nurse on demand, listen to your baby's cues....but not one bit of
it addresses conflict between parents and children and how to meet the
needs as your kids get older!
-Kelly
<jodibezzola@...> wrote:
>Yes! Yes! That is so true! On AP lists and playgroups/support groups
> ~~Its like AP parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.~~
thing are all clear on meeting the needs of babies like in arms, family
bed, nurse on demand, listen to your baby's cues....but not one bit of
it addresses conflict between parents and children and how to meet the
needs as your kids get older!
-Kelly
Faith Void
> > thought toI do that, so I am glad to hear that I am dong the best thing
> > sit near to him away from the group and calmly discuss this or be
> > quiet with him. Making it look like
>
> I think you should do that, be there for him. But, do it before there
> is a problem. Hover! I recently heard the term "helicopter mom!" It is
> used to describe over-controlling mothers who don't let their kids
> handle their own problems. I don't see that as being a common problem.
> But parents being a bit unavailable, a little too detached --- that I
> see a LOT. Even in homeschooling/unschooling parents.
possible. I do have a small baby (6 months) so I am occasionally
distracted with her needs. I tend to hang out with the kids more than
the adults. The adults are so hard to be around, I start to feel
panicked. They mostly sit and chat, or complain about their kids. I
try to interact with mine and other kids. My oldest doesn't want me
around during co-op because all the other kids hate their parents and
even though she likes me she doesn't want to appear too different. I
tend to watch the littler ones in the sand box or on the play gym or
rocks. I am moving more towards leaving this co-op. It is better than
the other local homeschool group which is xtain school at homers. And
my kids like it better than the option of not being involved with any
group. I know there has to be another option or two.
>Yeah, I have definitely been slipping in this area. Like I said we
> When you are at home, you apparently need to be more present when he
> and his sister are together. If you're more aware, you'll see things
> leading up to him hitting her and you can step in. Lots of times you
> can just sense the tension rising in him and you can say some little
> thing to distract him - or even invite him to go do something with
> you. Break the tension.
just had a baby 6 months ago and then (what was I thinking) we bought
a house a couple months ago. So I have been overwhelmed with all that
*needs* to happen. I am still not unpacked and moved in. Plus, my dh
has been working 15-16 hour days 7 days a week on a project, that will
hopefully be done soon. And he is going to be away for 2 weeks
starting this friday (arg) and those things have been adding pressure.
I don't really have any support system.
I try to spend as much time with the kids as possible. The break downs
usually occur at the end of the day when everyone is tired (of course)
BUT I did realize that I have been viewing my son as the "problem"
instead of being a partner in figuring things out with him. I have
been observing much in the last few days and can feel this awakening
to a new perspective. He one big blow up the other day, I remained
clam and focused on him. Since then he has been feeling better.
Seeking me out instead of butting heads.
>Maybe this should be another thread but I HATE talking to other
> When you're out with other kids - the temptation is to sit with the
> moms and gab, but you need to be nearby your son to be able to help
> him. He doesn't have the impulse control, yet, to stop his anger long
> enough to go get an adult to help him. So be RIGHT there ready to
> help. He won't need you to do that forever, just for this
> developmental stage.
mothers. Not all of them but most. I loathe co-op days. I only go
because my 11dd NEEDS it. She is very social and has always craved
people. We have been going since we moved here about 2 years ago. They
are her friends and as I don't want to talk to their mothers much we
don't do too many playdates. I am wondering how everyone one here
found other unschoolers? Their is a PA unschoolers yahoo group I
belong to but no one lives down here. And most aren't radical. I have
thought to start my own group but I am not sure how. What are the
logistics of a group. I am very socially inept.
Thanks
faith
Faith Void
I joined the local AP group (well it is a hour away). But I have yet
to go as all the sessions are geared towards babies or at oldest
toddlers. I am almost a LLL leader which I really enjoy but I still
find that even long term lll people still parent mainstream after a
few years. I have always tried to maintain AP philosophies and parent
gently and respectfully but find it harder as they get older. We have
always unschooled (before I had even heard of such a thing) and AP'd
but not "perfectly" as I have had a lot of confusion (I was ill
parented and abused as a child) and not really much guidance I felt
good about.
I am really glad I finally found this group a few months ago as it has
been a breath of fresh air and really helped with some difficult
questions. I really need to be able to hear a loving perspective
instead of mainstream views when I feel confused.
I suspect that most parents have a hard time with autonomy issues.
Most parents I met have a hard time with my children's autonomy, since
their own children;s are suppressed. I often wonder what other
unschooled kids "look like" as the kids I know are so, well the
antithesis of free. I think sometimes I do oppress my kids
unintentionally as I am unsure about the difference between freedom
and license. But slowly I am figuring it out. My kids tend to let me
know :-)
Thanks to all on this list who write the hard truths and don't sugar
coat it when people are being oppressive to their kids. I really
appreciate that.
Faith
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:48 PM, barefootmamax4
<barefootmamax4@...> wrote:
to go as all the sessions are geared towards babies or at oldest
toddlers. I am almost a LLL leader which I really enjoy but I still
find that even long term lll people still parent mainstream after a
few years. I have always tried to maintain AP philosophies and parent
gently and respectfully but find it harder as they get older. We have
always unschooled (before I had even heard of such a thing) and AP'd
but not "perfectly" as I have had a lot of confusion (I was ill
parented and abused as a child) and not really much guidance I felt
good about.
I am really glad I finally found this group a few months ago as it has
been a breath of fresh air and really helped with some difficult
questions. I really need to be able to hear a loving perspective
instead of mainstream views when I feel confused.
I suspect that most parents have a hard time with autonomy issues.
Most parents I met have a hard time with my children's autonomy, since
their own children;s are suppressed. I often wonder what other
unschooled kids "look like" as the kids I know are so, well the
antithesis of free. I think sometimes I do oppress my kids
unintentionally as I am unsure about the difference between freedom
and license. But slowly I am figuring it out. My kids tend to let me
know :-)
Thanks to all on this list who write the hard truths and don't sugar
coat it when people are being oppressive to their kids. I really
appreciate that.
Faith
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:48 PM, barefootmamax4
<barefootmamax4@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Jodi Bezzola
> <jodibezzola@...> wrote:
> >
> > ~~Its like AP parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.~~
>
> Yes! Yes! That is so true! On AP lists and playgroups/support groups
> thing are all clear on meeting the needs of babies like in arms, family
> bed, nurse on demand, listen to your baby's cues....but not one bit of
> it addresses conflict between parents and children and how to meet the
> needs as your kids get older!
> -Kelly
>
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Faith Void wrote:
babe - and my second was sort of "easy" - she'd be happy in one place,
very content, etc. But for the third, the sling was awesome - I could
do almost anything while wearing the baby <G>.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yeah, I have definitely been slipping in this area. Like I said weDo you use a sling for the baby? I didn't really need it for the first
> just had a baby 6 months ago and then (what was I thinking) we bought
> a house a couple months ago. So I have been overwhelmed with all that
> *needs* to happen.
babe - and my second was sort of "easy" - she'd be happy in one place,
very content, etc. But for the third, the sling was awesome - I could
do almost anything while wearing the baby <G>.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
I do. She is actually a very easy going baby. The packing/unpacking
has been a challenge. I am finding it hard to cart boxes around while
slinging a baby. I was thinking about getting a backpack when we get
the money. I am unsure what to do with the 5y/o as he is usually
quickly done with helping me and wants me to PLAY! Usually I chose to
play with him and squeeze in a few things while he is doing his own
thing. Any suggestions on getting more done? And still having a happy
boy. He often feels like his needs are not being met. My oldest
sometimes helps me unpack. She prefers to "give me an hour" and then
go off and do her own thing. Which is great but still our house is
very slow to come together. I am getting the basics done, laundry,
dishes, etc but the boxes and organizing...I really need to figure out
how to do the house tasks AND play with the kids. I am not very
organized. I am not in the clearest thinking space right now and
having a hard time figuring stuff out. Are there any magic tricks that
anyone knows of :-)?
Faith
has been a challenge. I am finding it hard to cart boxes around while
slinging a baby. I was thinking about getting a backpack when we get
the money. I am unsure what to do with the 5y/o as he is usually
quickly done with helping me and wants me to PLAY! Usually I chose to
play with him and squeeze in a few things while he is doing his own
thing. Any suggestions on getting more done? And still having a happy
boy. He often feels like his needs are not being met. My oldest
sometimes helps me unpack. She prefers to "give me an hour" and then
go off and do her own thing. Which is great but still our house is
very slow to come together. I am getting the basics done, laundry,
dishes, etc but the boxes and organizing...I really need to figure out
how to do the house tasks AND play with the kids. I am not very
organized. I am not in the clearest thinking space right now and
having a hard time figuring stuff out. Are there any magic tricks that
anyone knows of :-)?
Faith
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Faith Void wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I have definitely been slipping in this area. Like I said we
> > just had a baby 6 months ago and then (what was I thinking) we bought
> > a house a couple months ago. So I have been overwhelmed with all that
> > *needs* to happen.
>
> Do you use a sling for the baby? I didn't really need it for the first
> babe - and my second was sort of "easy" - she'd be happy in one place,
> very content, etc. But for the third, the sling was awesome - I could
> do almost anything while wearing the baby <G>.
>
>
> -pam
Kim Musolff
Its like AP
parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.
Wow, this really hit home! I feel like you were talking about ME! I was a
very active AP when my son was first born. I had never really heard about
it before I was a mom. But when my son was about 3 or 4 months old, I
stumbled across Dr. Sear's Baby Book, and everything just made sense to me.
I had bought a crib before DS was born, but he only slept in it a handful of
times, because it just didn't feel right. After reading the Baby Book, I
felt confident to trust my instinct, read my baby's cues and officially
declared myself an AP parent.
6 years, and 2 more children later, I stumbled across unschooling in a
similar way. A friend let me borrow The Unschooling Handbook. It hit me
the same way that AP did. It all just seemed to make sense to me. I was
like, "Yes! THIS is the way I want to raise my children!"
But I also felt a little removed from it. As I read, I started feeling more
and more like this was the kind of parent I USED to be. Somehow I had
veered away from AP ideals a bit. I wondered at what point did I stop
listening to and trusting my children? Why did I ignore them sometimes on
the playground just so I could have an adult conversation? When did
housework become more important than playtime? When was the last time I
just sat down and hung out with my kids?
As soon as I read "Parenting a Free Child," I wanted to go back to how
things were before. And I am now working towards that. We've only been
unschooling for about a month or so, and already I can see a change in the
way my kids respond to me!
I don't know why some AP parents throw everything away as babies grow up.
Maybe we feel social pressure to "get them ready for school." Maybe we feel
like we need to have "perfect" little children so others will think we are
"good" parents. I'm not sure. I just know that I'm so glad that I've had
the chance to be redirected back to a parenting style that I truly feel is
right. This group has been very helpful!
Thanks!
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
parenting flies out the window at 4 or something.
Wow, this really hit home! I feel like you were talking about ME! I was a
very active AP when my son was first born. I had never really heard about
it before I was a mom. But when my son was about 3 or 4 months old, I
stumbled across Dr. Sear's Baby Book, and everything just made sense to me.
I had bought a crib before DS was born, but he only slept in it a handful of
times, because it just didn't feel right. After reading the Baby Book, I
felt confident to trust my instinct, read my baby's cues and officially
declared myself an AP parent.
6 years, and 2 more children later, I stumbled across unschooling in a
similar way. A friend let me borrow The Unschooling Handbook. It hit me
the same way that AP did. It all just seemed to make sense to me. I was
like, "Yes! THIS is the way I want to raise my children!"
But I also felt a little removed from it. As I read, I started feeling more
and more like this was the kind of parent I USED to be. Somehow I had
veered away from AP ideals a bit. I wondered at what point did I stop
listening to and trusting my children? Why did I ignore them sometimes on
the playground just so I could have an adult conversation? When did
housework become more important than playtime? When was the last time I
just sat down and hung out with my kids?
As soon as I read "Parenting a Free Child," I wanted to go back to how
things were before. And I am now working towards that. We've only been
unschooling for about a month or so, and already I can see a change in the
way my kids respond to me!
I don't know why some AP parents throw everything away as babies grow up.
Maybe we feel social pressure to "get them ready for school." Maybe we feel
like we need to have "perfect" little children so others will think we are
"good" parents. I'm not sure. I just know that I'm so glad that I've had
the chance to be redirected back to a parenting style that I truly feel is
right. This group has been very helpful!
Thanks!
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
keetry
--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
house and moved the family when my bab was only 2 weeks old and
while my dh was deployed. He was gone from January 2007 to January
2008. I had the baby in June 2007. At the time that I had the baby
and moved I also had my teenager with me. It is now almost 10 months
later and the garage is still a mess and there are boxes around the
house and nothing is quite put together. I can't do much with the
baby in a sling, either, and I've tried a ring sling, a mei tai and
a wrap. My back hurts too much. I love my slings and use them all
the time, just not for housework or unpacking. My dh is home and
working on things but it's still very slow going. He goes to work
during the day and still has to leave for a few weeks here and
there. When he is home we'd much rather do things together and with
the kids than one of spending all our time cleaning or unpacking or
organizing. So, it's just going very slowly. Most days I wonder if
it will be done before we have to move again. It causes me a lot of
stress if I let it. I try to just understand things will be slow
going and then let it all go. That may be all anyone can do in such
a situation. Sorry I don't have much practical help, just
commisserating.
Alysia
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>while
> I do. She is actually a very easy going baby. The packing/unpacking
> has been a challenge. I am finding it hard to cart boxes around
> slinging a baby. I was thinking about getting a backpack when weget
> the money. I am unsure what to do with the 5y/o as he is usuallyto
> quickly done with helping me and wants me to PLAY! Usually I chose
> play with him and squeeze in a few things while he is doing his ownhappy
> thing. Any suggestions on getting more done? And still having a
> boy. He often feels like his needs are not being met. My oldestthen
> sometimes helps me unpack. She prefers to "give me an hour" and
> go off and do her own thing. Which is great but still our house isout
> very slow to come together. I am getting the basics done, laundry,
> dishes, etc but the boxes and organizing...I really need to figure
> how to do the house tasks AND play with the kids. I am not verythat
> organized. I am not in the clearest thinking space right now and
> having a hard time figuring stuff out. Are there any magic tricks
> anyone knows of :-)?I'm in a similar boat. I have a 4yo and a 9 month old. I bought a
> Faith
>
>
house and moved the family when my bab was only 2 weeks old and
while my dh was deployed. He was gone from January 2007 to January
2008. I had the baby in June 2007. At the time that I had the baby
and moved I also had my teenager with me. It is now almost 10 months
later and the garage is still a mess and there are boxes around the
house and nothing is quite put together. I can't do much with the
baby in a sling, either, and I've tried a ring sling, a mei tai and
a wrap. My back hurts too much. I love my slings and use them all
the time, just not for housework or unpacking. My dh is home and
working on things but it's still very slow going. He goes to work
during the day and still has to leave for a few weeks here and
there. When he is home we'd much rather do things together and with
the kids than one of spending all our time cleaning or unpacking or
organizing. So, it's just going very slowly. Most days I wonder if
it will be done before we have to move again. It causes me a lot of
stress if I let it. I try to just understand things will be slow
going and then let it all go. That may be all anyone can do in such
a situation. Sorry I don't have much practical help, just
commisserating.
Alysia