Marla B.

I'm still struggling with helping my youngest child, 4 yo., develop
good social skills, outside of just modeling it OR maybe I'm still
struggling in dealing with people pressuring her (and me) to be more
polite.

Some of this struggle, I admit, comes on the heels of a recent visit
with my family (my sister is very, very conventional. She and her dh
strongly believe in "I am the parent and I will tell you what you can
and can't do" and some friends with very polite children (the type
that tell their children right in front of you to say "please" and
withhold items until their children uses the correct tone, as well as
the "magic" word. Something that I did before I found unschooling,
but now rarely do, unless succumbing to strong social pressure).

So, my 4 yo., as to be expected, sometimes says "please," sometimes
says "can I have that," and other times says "give me that." I know
by watching her 9 yo. sister that gentle social skills are developed
over time, but I admit that when I'm not at my best, the social
pressure and criticism can be too intense for me.

For example, today we had our friends over that are very strict about
"please" and "thank you." As I mentioned, they withhold things if
their child does not ask nicely and use the word "please." When my
4-yo. asked for the swing without saying "please" the 6 yo. boy looked
up at his mother and said to my daughter "you didn't say please, so
you can't have it." His mother didn't say anything, just stood
quietly. I scrambled in my head for something to say, but initially
kept quiet. After the second time I just made some lame statement
about how we don't force our children to say "please," and that over
time they will learn social skills through our modeling and their own
development. My daughter realized that there was no other way to get
the swing, so she finally said "please," but I still feel really
bummed about how I handled the whole thing and my feelings about it.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Marla Mom to Amy (9yo.) and Lily (4.5 yo.)

[email protected]

With my 5 and 2 year old, we are working on tone, not the word used. Asking
niccely doesn't mean that one MUST use the words - that can be what you say
next time, if that happenes again. Something like, "That's true, she didn't say
"please" but that's ok with me. She asked really nicely, and that means a
lot to me." Or something like that ;) Just yesterday, my 2 year old forgot to
ask for stickers at Trader Joe's, and said, excitedly, with a happy smole on
her face, "Oh, Mama, we forot the stickers!" so I asked for them, "Would you
mind getting her some stickers?" with smile on MY face. The woman says to my
daughter, "Can you say "please"?" My DD said, "Yes," waited patiently for the
stickers, lol, and THEN said thank you- on her own, lol. ;) Ah, people.
don't they make ya nuts at times, lol?

Good luck - I know how hard it is when you are with another type of
parenting folks. It's rough.

Karen



**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Musolff

>I'm still struggling with helping my youngest child, 4 yo., develop
good social skills, outside of just modeling it OR maybe I'm still
struggling in dealing with people pressuring her (and me) to be more
polite.

I'm so glad you wrote this! I am up at 2am, because my husband's parents
are staying with us for the week, and I just got in an argument with my
mother in-law over my children being polite! They say "thank you" pretty
regularly after receiving gifts, etc. but my mother-in-law feels insulted if
my children won't answer her when she talks to them, or hug her when she
wants a hug. I am struggling myself with this very issue. I know what the
"right" thing to do is. But I have a hard time standing up for what I
believe is right, especially because it's my husband's family. I suppose I
am also lacking the self-confidence to say what I feel is right, since all
this is so new to me. I'm still trying to figure out what to say to the
children, let alone defend myself to my mother-in-law.

I like Karen's advice on what to say. If only I could think of things like
that on the spot!
Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

RE: hugging....I can tell you that I was forced to hug relatives that
I didn't even know as a child. It was a terrifying experience. But
you know, "we have to be polite." FWIW my kids have NEVER been forced
to hug anyone even before I knew what RU was or that it was out there.
I simply stated that "In this day and age, it's important for kids to
know that their bodies are their own. I will not tell them to hug
someone or allow themselves to be touched against their will. That
sends the wrong message to them about their bodies and who is in
charge of it." End of discussion. I find if you raise the spectre of
child molestation or with girl children the idea of date rape or rape,
even if you don't say it outright most people will back off. This is
helpful if you are afraid of conflict or don't want to cause a dust up
in the family. I have no such issues. I've always felt that these
were MY kids and it was my job to make sure they were happy, healthy
and comfortable. In-laws and parents (mine I mean) had their chance
to raise their kids as they wanted. It is NOT their job to tell me
how to raise mine. This conviction is growing ever more important as
my MIL freaks out about my kids being Jewish, being homeschooled -->
unschooled --> RU. You just have to get the mantra in your head
"These are MY kids and they depend on me to protect them and their
interests." Get in touch with your mother bear. =)

My sympathies on having in-laws staying with you. My MIL won't stay
here because we have more pets than she likes and now this is a Jewish
home and she's "sure Jesus wouldn't want me in your home." Whatever.
Hang in there!
Karen

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...> wrote:
or hug her when she
> wants a hug. Kim

Vickisue Gray

>>> my mother-in-law feels insulted if my children won't answer her when she talks to them, or hug her when she wants a hug.<<
My answer might not be appreciated by your MIL, but I tend to feel that child know who they love/feel safe/want to hug. I would never insist my children hug someone they don't desire to hug. Hence, my youngest, doesn't hug any of his grandparents and to be honest with you, I blame the grandparents for causing that situation. If they would have been more desirable people to be around, then maybe he would like them enough to hug them. They weren't. You reap what you sow and children know. My son's grandparents have no one to blame but themselves.
Vicki



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff"
<kmoose75@...> wrote:
>
> I'm so glad you wrote this! I am up at 2am, because my husband's
parents
> are staying with us for the week, and I just got in an argument
with my
> mother in-law over my children being polite! They say "thank you"
pretty
> regularly after receiving gifts, etc. but my mother-in-law feels
insulted if
> my children won't answer her when she talks to them, or hug her
when she
> wants a hug. I am struggling myself with this very issue. I know
what the
> "right" thing to do is. But I have a hard time standing up for
what I
> believe is right, especially because it's my husband's family. I
suppose I
> am also lacking the self-confidence to say what I feel is right,
since all
> this is so new to me. I'm still trying to figure out what to say
to the
> children, let alone defend myself to my mother-in-law.
>
> I like Karen's advice on what to say. If only I could think of
things like
> that on the spot!
> Kim
>
It can be extremely difficult to have disagreements with in-laws. I
consider it my husband's job to deal with his family and mine to
deal with mine. Of course, if he won't or can't, I will. Does your
husband talk to his parents about this stuff?

Alysia

Barbara Perez

You're getting lots of responses that I agree with regarding the hugging
issue, but most seem to be glossing over the "not answering when she talks
to them" part. What is she telling them that they won't respond? Is it the
content or the tone? Will she listen to you if you explain to her that what
she's saying/how she's saying it might have to do with the fact that they're
not answering? I find that sometimes kids get intimidated by a tone or a
choice of words, when they would easily want to answer a similar question or
message that was phrased slightly differently.

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...> wrote:

> >I'm still struggling with helping my youngest child, 4 yo., develop
> good social skills, outside of just modeling it OR maybe I'm still
> struggling in dealing with people pressuring her (and me) to be more
> polite.
>
> I'm so glad you wrote this! I am up at 2am, because my husband's parents
> are staying with us for the week, and I just got in an argument with my
> mother in-law over my children being polite! They say "thank you" pretty
> regularly after receiving gifts, etc. but my mother-in-law feels insulted
> if
> my children won't answer her when she talks to them, or hug her when she
> wants a hug. I am struggling myself with this very issue. I know what the
> "right" thing to do is. But I have a hard time standing up for what I
> believe is right, especially because it's my husband's family. I suppose I
> am also lacking the self-confidence to say what I feel is right, since all
> this is so new to me. I'm still trying to figure out what to say to the
> children, let alone defend myself to my mother-in-law.
>
> I like Karen's advice on what to say. If only I could think of things like
> that on the spot!
> Kim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wendy McDonald

Regarding the "not answering when she talks to them" part -- in
addition to the intimidation factor, I often find that my kids (and
my husband, too! LOL) often don't respond b/c they are so engrossed
in another activity that they really didn't process my question. If
it is important to have an answer at that time, then I will gently
redirect their attention to me. (For example, I know they like to be
offered the chance to help make their lunches, or cut veggies for
dinner, or come to the store w/ me, so I will interrupt to ask if
they want to b/c I know if I don't they will be upset, later, that
they didn't get the opportunity to decide for themselves.) Sometimes
that means hitting pause on the video, or calling out with a little
"yoo-hoo!" However, if the question really doesn't need to be
attended to at that moment, than I just file it on my mental "to ask
later" list and go about my business. The way I see it is: I don't
like to be interrupted or torn away from what I'm doing for something
that really isn't important to me or that could have waited -- why
would my kids be any different?

Maybe if the situation is similar for you, you could respond to MIL
with something like: "Oh, she's really into her tinker toys right
now, isn't she! I get the same way when I'm sewing. [Even better,
"DH is the same when he's playing Sudoku." ] We'll check with her
later."

Wendy




Posted by: "Barbara Perez" barbara.perez@... barbaraperez228
Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:08 pm (PDT)
You're getting lots of responses that I agree with regarding the hugging
issue, but most seem to be glossing over the "not answering when she
talks
to them" part. What is she telling them that they won't respond? Is
it the
content or the tone? Will she listen to you if you explain to her
that what
she's saying/how she's saying it might have to do with the fact that
they're
not answering? I find that sometimes kids get intimidated by a tone or a
choice of words, when they would easily want to answer a similar
question or
message that was phrased slightly differently.

[email protected]

When Patrick was young he wouldn't hug anybody but me. Not his dad, not his
siblings, absolutely not extended family. My mom would ask him when she saw
him, but she always respected his "no thanks" or head shake, without pressuring
him or teasing or acting sad or mad or any of the other shaming behaviours I've
seen adults use on kids to force intimacy. His "no hugs" policy wasn't about
anything anyone else had done or not done, he just wasn't interested in hugs,
thank you.

Over time he expanded his hugging circle. First his dad, then his siblings.
On the day of my grandfather's funeral, when Patrick was 6 years old, he walked
up to my grandmother and silently offered her a hug. Then he hugged my mom as
well. It was almost like he had saved those hugs up all those years for when
they'd REALLY be needed. After that my mom could get a hug whenever she asked,
mostly, but she's been careful not to abuse the priviledge, and always
appreciates them because she knows they mean something.

He's got friends all over the country now who'd be astonished to know he used
to be a nonhugger. :)

When he was little I used to joke that I had a permanent imprint of his face
in the back of my thigh. :) The harder folks tried to talk to him, the more
he'd withdraw. I'd put myself physically between him and the insistent, with a
cheery "he doesn't enjoy conversation yet" or something of the sort. I wouldn't
let folks try to pressure him into talking, nor allow them to attempt to
shame him for not answering them. I just asserted my quiet confidence that
eventually he would be exactly as sociable as he needed to be, that when he had
things to say he would say them, and when he was ready to leave my side, he would
go. At 15 he is this week visiting a friend 2000 miles away. I probably won't
hear from him till he comes home. :)

I'm sure it helped my confidence in this area that I was 36 when he was born
and had already been parenting for 15 years by then. I was not nearly as
assertive when my oldest son was born, when I was 21.

Deborah in IL


**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the
video on AOL Home.

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Don & Louisa

What a great thread, we are all struggling with the same issues with
parents. My mother is now, and only now, saying what nice kids I
have. She has been telling me for years I don't 'discipline' enough,
there are no "consequences" and etc. (my kids are 6.,4 and 2) and in
fact left early on a visit (after a huge fight) because I wouldn't
spank my 4 year old....."He needs a good whack!"
BAck to the please thing....
When my kids don't say please, I always just pretend I'm them and say
"Can I have some milk please mummy?" as I'm getting it. They can
choose then to say re-ask, or just absorb my statement. It is
modelling as well, but may not be the way you wish to practise it,
however, if you did it in front of your friends/inlaws only it may
smooth things over for you. My two year old spontaneously says thank
you when he joyfully recieves something he really wanted and doesn't
at other times.....that little thank you once in awhile is so much
more precious.
Hope this helps, and hang in there, your kids will prove you are
raising them well in the long run!
Louisa,
mama to 3,
Strawberry farmer, and
Brand new usborne books consultant!

diana jenner

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:01 AM, <DACunefare@...> wrote:

> He's got friends all over the country now who'd be astonished to know he
> used
> to be a nonhugger. :)
> (snip)
> At 15 he is this week visiting a friend 2000 miles away. I probably won't
> hear from him till he comes home. :)
>
>


I just saw him on Saturday AND I got a big hug :D
I'm feeling much more *worthy* now! :::vbg:::
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~I just saw him on Saturday AND I got a big hug :D
I'm feeling much more *worthy* now! :::vbg:::~~

And I just got to see them all at the InHome conference in Chicago a
couple weeks ago!! Pat played guitar at the talent show, in a room
full of people with a broken guitar string. Brave guy.:)
I put a pic of his fan club at my blog.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Kim Musolff

You're getting lots of responses that I agree with regarding the hugging
issue, but most seem to be glossing over the "not answering when she talks
to them" part. What is she telling them that they won't respond? Is it the
content or the tone? Will she listen to you if you explain to her that what
she's saying/how she's saying it might have to do with the fact that they're
not answering? I find that sometimes kids get intimidated by a tone or a
choice of words, when they would easily want to answer a similar question or
message that was phrased slightly differently.



She asks them questions, and they just stare at her. It's almost like a
deer-in-headlights kind of thing. Now that I think about it, she is a very
overpowering, outgoing person. My husband used to be embarrassed by this
sort of thing, and used to embarrass the kids about it on the spot
(unintentionally). So I think it's kind of gotten made into this HUGE deal
now. But my MIL has no patience for this sort of thing.
Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]