trusting your child,need some reasurance!
barefootmamax4
The past few days I have been feeling very unsettled about unschooling.
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile? I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work. Most
places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-Kelly
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile? I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work. Most
places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-Kelly
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
You have a lot of worries weighing you down. That sucks. I wrote ages ago about the benefits specific to Pokemon. I love Pokemon. I think it is one of my favorite shows. I love Jesse and James and Meowth and their intro song and how they aren't really bad guys, not really. I love the whole show. I really find it fascinating. Anyhow. There are two posts on unschooling_discussion that are directly about Pokemon and learning:
This first post I wrote:
Pokemon are amazing! Simon, who has been watching Pokemon since he was 3 and
playing Pokemon on the gameboy since he was 4, has learned absolutely
amazing things from that relationship.
Pokemon for the gameboy is an RPG, so there is a story going on, so
understanding narrative, and a lot of moving around, spatial skills, map
reading. Every Pokemon gameboy game, other than Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon
Rangers (and a couple of racing ones and a tetris like one) start with a
child moving in to a new house and having to set the clock and then go and
meet the professor in the lab next door. The child picks 1 starter pokemon
from a choice of 3, a leaf pokemon, a fire pokemon and a water pokemon.
Whichever one picked changes, a bit, the strategy the player uses.
Pokemon have weaknesses to other types of pokemon. There are fire, water,
leaf, rock, ghost, psychic, ground, electric, and some others that I'm not
thinking of at the minute. Whichever type you have can give you an edge over
another type, or may make you weak against their attacks. So rock types are
weak against water types. And that knowledge, that relationship
understanding, helps the player to prepare for the big boss level battles:
the gym battles. Which is so much about strategy and planning.
So, what kind of learning so far: narrative, spatial skills, map reading,
planning, strategy, logic, reading skills (there is tons of reading in
pokemon), numeracy (lots of numbers, levelling up your pokemon, how many
pokemon you've collected, money, lots of numbers).
And then there is the sideways learning. The guy who created pokemon,
Satoshi Tajiri, loved to collect insects as a child and Pokemon is sort of
born from that love. So there is a lot of biology involved. Pokemon evolve
(which I'm sure is a poor translation from the Japanese for metamorphosis)
into other pokemon, so a Geodude becomes a Graveler becomes a Golem, some of
which, like Geodude, is just change. But some is clearly moving from a
larval stage through a chrysalis and into an adult form, like caterpie who
becomes metapod (a cocoon) who becomes butterfree. There is also archaeology
and evolution as change over time, in that there are ancient type pokemon,
and there is usually an archealogical site somewhere in the game.
There are other interesting aspects to Pokemon, like you have to be able to
train your pokemon or they won't listen to you, so you must have a certain
number of gym badges to keep your pokemon's respect when they get to higher
levels. What kind of pokemon are around can change over the course of the
day and where you are. If you want to catch 'em all, you have to not only
know where they are and have the right pokeballs, but some have to be traded
for with other players with the other game cartridge--the game releases were
always at least as a pair. You get a reference book (the pokedex) to sort
out the pokemon you've encountered or caught with more information available
from the ones you've caught. You can enter your pokemon in beauty contests
in the later versions of the games. And it is a Japanese game, so there are
wonderful Japanese specifics, like tatami rooms and open marketplaces and
Japanese temples, and Japanese food, and the Japanese love of vitamins and
health enhancing drinks.
I found an interview with Satoshi Tajeri (
http://users.otenet.gr/~tzelepisk/yc/st.htm#profile) where he says, in
answer to the question What does Pokemon bring to the children: Decisively,
it's a different world which would support the children's hearts. I think
every person feels the different things in this game, but Pokemon is always
with everyone. It's true.
I like the idea of Pokemon being a world which would support the children's
hearts.
There is another interesting interview with Satoshi Tajeri here:
http://pokedream.com/pokemon/infocenter/tajiri.php .
I hope something there helps.
-----------
Second post is from Amy Carpenter:
To add a few things to Schuyler's list:
Researching: there are game guides for every game, big books of game
tips and a listing of every Pokemon in the game, complete with their
stats, abilities and attacks. After a few years of practice, my son
Fisher (9.5) knows how to get every bit of information out of that
guide, when he needs it, and knows how to apply it.
Naturalistic intelligence: The way it's defined by Howard Gardner.
Each Pokemon has certain characteristics, and they fit into various
categories. Pokemon fans understand all the nuances of those, and the
amount of information they can store in their heads that way (because
it fits into categories that are meaningful to them) is amazing.
Anime and manga: Pokemon was our introduction into the world of
Japanese animation and comics. We branched out into the very artful
Miyazaki movies (My Neighbor Totoro, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving
Castle, Spirited Away, Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa -- all beautiful),
as well as into other manga and anime like Inuyasha and Full Metal
Alchemist. *Lots* of beautiful stories and a cultural range that is
quite awe-inspiring.
"Math" and "writing": Because Fisher has seen so many graphical
representations of Pokemon stats in the different guides, he is
extremely comfortable creating bar graphs, circle charts and more as
he creates his own characters for various pretend games that he
invents. It was in the Pokemon guides that he first saw how he wanted
his own descriptions and stats to look, and now he creates lots of
characters and pretend worlds based on that template.
Imagination: I cannot tell you how many pretend Pokemon battles,
contests, races, camp-outs, and parties we've had over the years.
Hundreds, I'm sure. Hundreds of times that he's taken this idea of
Pokemon and worked out his own pretend world, his own ideas about
social interaction and relationships, his own stories, his own new
moves, his own ideas about what it means to win and lose, his own
battle system, and so on.
That's what I can think of right now. It does seem that the kids who
get into Pokemon *really* get into it, and it adds so much to their
lives and their learning. The creator of Pokemon, Satoshi Tajeri, is
such an aware observer, and I think that's why it appeals so deeply to
many kids.
Peace,
Amy
=================
Maybe something there is information that will help you to see the glory that is Pokemon. I would honestly relax and enjoy the ride. Keep offering things, but don't get worried or upset if they don't get accepted. Maybe offer more Pokemon oriented things. There are some weird Pokemon homemade videos on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sr-O6719kM&feature=related --Misty gives "The Trainer" the finger, so it may not be appropriate for all audiences--for example). Maybe watching some of those with your kids will amuse and engage them. See if your library has any Pokemon books. We have a couple, one of which is a Romeo and Juliet retelling. Get on ebay and look for Pokemon figures and strew those around the house. We have a lot from when we lived in Japan and while Simon's love for them has waned, they are still among my favorite toys.
Simon has recently become fascinated with Naruto and I missed the boat a little bit. I don't have a clue what is going on. Last night he and I watched an episode together and I said I don't understand. He told me I should watch the first 15 episodes and I'll understand. I figure I'll try and do that over the next few days since he so wanted to share it with me. I mean how could I not accept that sweet an invitation?
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
http://sandradodd.com/t/cartoons
----- Original Message ----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 15 March, 2008 10:59:29 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] trusting your child,need some reasurance!
The past few days I have been feeling very unsettled about unschooling.
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile? I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work. Most
places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-Kelly
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This first post I wrote:
Pokemon are amazing! Simon, who has been watching Pokemon since he was 3 and
playing Pokemon on the gameboy since he was 4, has learned absolutely
amazing things from that relationship.
Pokemon for the gameboy is an RPG, so there is a story going on, so
understanding narrative, and a lot of moving around, spatial skills, map
reading. Every Pokemon gameboy game, other than Mystery Dungeon and Pokemon
Rangers (and a couple of racing ones and a tetris like one) start with a
child moving in to a new house and having to set the clock and then go and
meet the professor in the lab next door. The child picks 1 starter pokemon
from a choice of 3, a leaf pokemon, a fire pokemon and a water pokemon.
Whichever one picked changes, a bit, the strategy the player uses.
Pokemon have weaknesses to other types of pokemon. There are fire, water,
leaf, rock, ghost, psychic, ground, electric, and some others that I'm not
thinking of at the minute. Whichever type you have can give you an edge over
another type, or may make you weak against their attacks. So rock types are
weak against water types. And that knowledge, that relationship
understanding, helps the player to prepare for the big boss level battles:
the gym battles. Which is so much about strategy and planning.
So, what kind of learning so far: narrative, spatial skills, map reading,
planning, strategy, logic, reading skills (there is tons of reading in
pokemon), numeracy (lots of numbers, levelling up your pokemon, how many
pokemon you've collected, money, lots of numbers).
And then there is the sideways learning. The guy who created pokemon,
Satoshi Tajiri, loved to collect insects as a child and Pokemon is sort of
born from that love. So there is a lot of biology involved. Pokemon evolve
(which I'm sure is a poor translation from the Japanese for metamorphosis)
into other pokemon, so a Geodude becomes a Graveler becomes a Golem, some of
which, like Geodude, is just change. But some is clearly moving from a
larval stage through a chrysalis and into an adult form, like caterpie who
becomes metapod (a cocoon) who becomes butterfree. There is also archaeology
and evolution as change over time, in that there are ancient type pokemon,
and there is usually an archealogical site somewhere in the game.
There are other interesting aspects to Pokemon, like you have to be able to
train your pokemon or they won't listen to you, so you must have a certain
number of gym badges to keep your pokemon's respect when they get to higher
levels. What kind of pokemon are around can change over the course of the
day and where you are. If you want to catch 'em all, you have to not only
know where they are and have the right pokeballs, but some have to be traded
for with other players with the other game cartridge--the game releases were
always at least as a pair. You get a reference book (the pokedex) to sort
out the pokemon you've encountered or caught with more information available
from the ones you've caught. You can enter your pokemon in beauty contests
in the later versions of the games. And it is a Japanese game, so there are
wonderful Japanese specifics, like tatami rooms and open marketplaces and
Japanese temples, and Japanese food, and the Japanese love of vitamins and
health enhancing drinks.
I found an interview with Satoshi Tajeri (
http://users.otenet.gr/~tzelepisk/yc/st.htm#profile) where he says, in
answer to the question What does Pokemon bring to the children: Decisively,
it's a different world which would support the children's hearts. I think
every person feels the different things in this game, but Pokemon is always
with everyone. It's true.
I like the idea of Pokemon being a world which would support the children's
hearts.
There is another interesting interview with Satoshi Tajeri here:
http://pokedream.com/pokemon/infocenter/tajiri.php .
I hope something there helps.
-----------
Second post is from Amy Carpenter:
To add a few things to Schuyler's list:
Researching: there are game guides for every game, big books of game
tips and a listing of every Pokemon in the game, complete with their
stats, abilities and attacks. After a few years of practice, my son
Fisher (9.5) knows how to get every bit of information out of that
guide, when he needs it, and knows how to apply it.
Naturalistic intelligence: The way it's defined by Howard Gardner.
Each Pokemon has certain characteristics, and they fit into various
categories. Pokemon fans understand all the nuances of those, and the
amount of information they can store in their heads that way (because
it fits into categories that are meaningful to them) is amazing.
Anime and manga: Pokemon was our introduction into the world of
Japanese animation and comics. We branched out into the very artful
Miyazaki movies (My Neighbor Totoro, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving
Castle, Spirited Away, Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa -- all beautiful),
as well as into other manga and anime like Inuyasha and Full Metal
Alchemist. *Lots* of beautiful stories and a cultural range that is
quite awe-inspiring.
"Math" and "writing": Because Fisher has seen so many graphical
representations of Pokemon stats in the different guides, he is
extremely comfortable creating bar graphs, circle charts and more as
he creates his own characters for various pretend games that he
invents. It was in the Pokemon guides that he first saw how he wanted
his own descriptions and stats to look, and now he creates lots of
characters and pretend worlds based on that template.
Imagination: I cannot tell you how many pretend Pokemon battles,
contests, races, camp-outs, and parties we've had over the years.
Hundreds, I'm sure. Hundreds of times that he's taken this idea of
Pokemon and worked out his own pretend world, his own ideas about
social interaction and relationships, his own stories, his own new
moves, his own ideas about what it means to win and lose, his own
battle system, and so on.
That's what I can think of right now. It does seem that the kids who
get into Pokemon *really* get into it, and it adds so much to their
lives and their learning. The creator of Pokemon, Satoshi Tajeri, is
such an aware observer, and I think that's why it appeals so deeply to
many kids.
Peace,
Amy
=================
Maybe something there is information that will help you to see the glory that is Pokemon. I would honestly relax and enjoy the ride. Keep offering things, but don't get worried or upset if they don't get accepted. Maybe offer more Pokemon oriented things. There are some weird Pokemon homemade videos on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sr-O6719kM&feature=related --Misty gives "The Trainer" the finger, so it may not be appropriate for all audiences--for example). Maybe watching some of those with your kids will amuse and engage them. See if your library has any Pokemon books. We have a couple, one of which is a Romeo and Juliet retelling. Get on ebay and look for Pokemon figures and strew those around the house. We have a lot from when we lived in Japan and while Simon's love for them has waned, they are still among my favorite toys.
Simon has recently become fascinated with Naruto and I missed the boat a little bit. I don't have a clue what is going on. Last night he and I watched an episode together and I said I don't understand. He told me I should watch the first 15 episodes and I'll understand. I figure I'll try and do that over the next few days since he so wanted to share it with me. I mean how could I not accept that sweet an invitation?
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
http://sandradodd.com/t/cartoons
----- Original Message ----
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 15 March, 2008 10:59:29 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] trusting your child,need some reasurance!
The past few days I have been feeling very unsettled about unschooling.
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile? I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work. Most
places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-Kelly
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
I didn't mean to leave that hanging there:
http://sandradodd.com/t/cartoons
There are some cool thoughts on the value of cartoons over there. It takes me so long to write a post that I'd forgotten I'd found that page.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://sandradodd.com/t/cartoons
There are some cool thoughts on the value of cartoons over there. It takes me so long to write a post that I'd forgotten I'd found that page.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 15, 2008, at 6:59 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
while involved in Pokemon. They didn't learn English to learn
English. They learned English as a side effect of wanting juice and
wanting a kitty stuffed animal and wanting 101 Dalmatians turned on.
My daughter Kat, 16, would not be the person she is today without
Pokemon! ;-) It has pretty much infused her life since she was 7.
Have you played the game? The amount of information they need to
juggle in order to create a useful team for battle is incredible. (I
have my own DS and my own copy of the most recent release.) It
rivals chess in terms of strategies.
If they have the gaming guides -- which they should! -- there's
information arranged in all manner of charts and graphs. There are
statistics. Kat learned how to use databases and spreadsheets in
order to organize information about Pokemon. We've hosted 3 Japanese
students because of her interest in manga and anime that grew from
Pokemon.
Kat estimates she has over 1000 pages (she counted up to 800+ pages
that are in binders so it wasn't a wild guess) of just comics
inspired by tv and video games. She has a comic that has been going
on for 9 years that started as very much like Pokemon but has evolved
into something different. She has 3 3" binders of Pokemon inspired
creatures she's drawn over the years (literally 1000s). All because
of the freedom to explore TV and video games.
The manga style of drawing she favors began (for her) with Pokemon.
Instead of trying to pull them away from Pokemon, find out more about
Pokemon. Find websites. Find videos on YouTube. (Some are very
clever!) Get a copy of the favorite episodes on DVD in the original
Japanese. Look at products in Japan based on Pokemon. Talk about why
the same products aren't available in America. Go to a sushi bar (if
they play the mini games in the Pokemon Stadium game for the
GameCube.) Introduce them to anime and manga.
Go to an anime convention. Dress up as Pokemon :-) (It's where Kat
and I will be this coming weekend! Most of the sewing she's been
involved with has been costumes for conventions :-) While I do the
bulk of it, she does do straight seams and has been involved on the
sidelines through much of it.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours ofDon't look at it directly. Maybe try to see what tools they're using
> pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
> pastime?
while involved in Pokemon. They didn't learn English to learn
English. They learned English as a side effect of wanting juice and
wanting a kitty stuffed animal and wanting 101 Dalmatians turned on.
My daughter Kat, 16, would not be the person she is today without
Pokemon! ;-) It has pretty much infused her life since she was 7.
Have you played the game? The amount of information they need to
juggle in order to create a useful team for battle is incredible. (I
have my own DS and my own copy of the most recent release.) It
rivals chess in terms of strategies.
If they have the gaming guides -- which they should! -- there's
information arranged in all manner of charts and graphs. There are
statistics. Kat learned how to use databases and spreadsheets in
order to organize information about Pokemon. We've hosted 3 Japanese
students because of her interest in manga and anime that grew from
Pokemon.
Kat estimates she has over 1000 pages (she counted up to 800+ pages
that are in binders so it wasn't a wild guess) of just comics
inspired by tv and video games. She has a comic that has been going
on for 9 years that started as very much like Pokemon but has evolved
into something different. She has 3 3" binders of Pokemon inspired
creatures she's drawn over the years (literally 1000s). All because
of the freedom to explore TV and video games.
The manga style of drawing she favors began (for her) with Pokemon.
Instead of trying to pull them away from Pokemon, find out more about
Pokemon. Find websites. Find videos on YouTube. (Some are very
clever!) Get a copy of the favorite episodes on DVD in the original
Japanese. Look at products in Japan based on Pokemon. Talk about why
the same products aren't available in America. Go to a sushi bar (if
they play the mini games in the Pokemon Stadium game for the
GameCube.) Introduce them to anime and manga.
Go to an anime convention. Dress up as Pokemon :-) (It's where Kat
and I will be this coming weekend! Most of the sewing she's been
involved with has been costumes for conventions :-) While I do the
bulk of it, she does do straight seams and has been involved on the
sidelines through much of it.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> I have tried strewing and offering all sorts of things, and theyAre you involving yourself in anything you strew or offer? I've
> all have gotten very little response.
found that to be a very important component of our lifestyle. I can
put something interesting on the table and they'll walk by it with
hardly a glance. But if I sit at the table and start looking at it
or doing it, they'll naturally flow to me to see what I'm doing.
Great example: a couple of days ago I got out our recorder and book
because I wanted to play. I wasn't thinking about the kids but just
following my own interest. My dd9 heard me playing and wanted to
learn, so she took the recorder and book and went into her room.
She's been playing alot the past couple of days and doing very well
with it. But now I have to go buy another recorder because I still
want to play! LOL
Another: I wanted to watch a National Geographic video called Artic
Tale. When I first got it from the library, I showed it to the kids
and they weren't interested at all. They said they didn't really
like watching documentaries about animals. I didn't bring it home
because I wanted them to watch it and learn something. I am the one
interested in the artic animals. But once I turned it on, the kids
ended up coming into the living room and watching it with me. It
sparked lots of discussion over the next few days.
Beth M.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 15, 2008, at 3:59 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
our biggest private sector employer. I know a zillion people who work
in the movie industry, television, theater, and video games -
performers and technical people. I mean, seriously, the MAJORITY of
people I know have a connection to the entertainment industry. Even my
husband, who is an economist for the electricity company, deals with
the entertainment industry - it is such a huge industry here that
their electricity use is major. Heck, even I, myself, recently took a
part-time job as the box office manager at a theater. And, then there
are the people who work at the theme parks - ride-operators and
concession sellers are the entry-level jobs, but I also know the
person who takes care of the horses at Disneyland, a lighting designer
for their shows, dancers and actors, a drummer in a band, and tour
guides and much more.
your head? I don't know one single always-unschooled young adult like
that - grown up with no concept of making a living or what adults do
at work? Not a ONE. By FAR the opposite - the unschooled older teens
and young adults I know are much MORE aware of the world of careers
and work than kids in high school or even in college (who seem to live
in their own very limited world).
PLAY their whole life? Let's hope. Lots of the people I know have
turned their "play" into careers. One of my daughters (I'll write
about her job, below) even majored in "Recreation and Leisure Studies"
in college.
the late teens. Don't be in such a hurry.
watching tv, playing pretend games with her sisters and friends,
singing, making up stories, playing dolls, cutting and pasting and
coloring and drawing and swimming in our pool. She started doing
ceramics at 14 and kept up a passionate interest in ceramics (throwing
pots) since. We thought she'd go to college and get an art degree -
what she really wanted was the studio resources at the college, more
than anything. As a result of her interest in ceramics, she became
close to the ceramics instructor, who recommended her for a job at a
company that makes and sells glazes and clays. She worked in their
retail shop. She was 17 or so. After a year or so of doing that full
time (she got so much GREAT experience there - in so many ways I
couldn't even begin to list it all), she decided to go to college more
seriously (take general ed courses, etc, whereas before she'd been
taking almost all fine arts classes). She got a job as a lab tech in
the ceramics studio at the college. She took college courses, did her
ceramics, hung out with friends. She'd always loved the outdoors and
travel. Somewhere in there she'd gone off and traveled all over the
United States, on her own, for several months - taking busses and
trains, visiting other unschooled kids she'd met at conferences and
Not-Back-to-School Camp. We'd done a lot of camping - she'd been an
active Girl Scout all her life. So, she discovered with GLEE, reading
through the college catalog, that there was a major called
"Recreation." We looked into the kinds of jobs recreation majors ended
up with - it included forest ranger jobs and people who organized
recreation programs and therapeutic recreation and all kinds of
things. Roya had always dreamed and talked about running a camp -
somewhere in a mountain forest - for people to explore the fine arts
and experience outdoor challenges. She thought of getting a business
degree, to help her with figuring out how to run a camp like that, but
decided to major in recreation when she saw that they had courses
specifically geared to helping her learn to do what she'd dreamed of
doing. In the meantime, she got a job working with mentally disabled
young adults in a program that offered life-skills help - which
included helping them develop hobbies and enjoy recreational activities.
She got her bachelor's degree and left the next day to spend the
summer working as a forest ranger in the back country of a state park
in Alaska. That was an adventure and a half, to say the least.
Then, she came home and looked for another job. She got one giving
science tours to school kids at a big nature center. She worked there
for a while, but it was pretty boring. Then she got a job as the
event/excursion organizer for a nonprofit organization that provides
all kinds of services to people with developmental/mental
disabilities. She LOVES working there and it is a really good job -
pay is good, great benefits, super nice people. She organizes trips -
everything from going bowling to going kayaking in the ocean to going
to a dude ranch in Arizona to an Alaskan cruise to a rock-climbing
trip. They're going to London for a week later this year. She goes on
all the trips - is in charge of them. She's awesome at her job - it is
perfect for her. She just had a performance review and it was glowing
- they gave her a 6% pay increase.
She lives in her own little house with her boyfriend, who also has a
degree in recreation (they met in college). She just bought herself a
new car - a sensible one (2008 Toyota Yaris). She does karate, plays
disc golf, goes swimming. She still does ceramics regularly. She's
decorated her little house - painted it beautifully and hung her own
oil paintings. She knits and crochets. She reads and listens to music
a lot. She watches tv - mostly dvd's of West Wing and Gilmore Girls,
and lots of movies. She hangs out with her sisters and we have lots of
extended family get-togethers.
So - that's Roya. More or less. I left a lot out, of course. She's
spoken at unschooling conferences - so there are people here who have
met her.
Roxana is my 20 year old. She's an actress - musical theater, mostly,
and "making it on Broadway" is her dream. She's also a literature
lover and is very analytically minded. She writes poetry and stories.
She has taken a lot of college courses, all taken because they
appealed to her - history, literature, social science courses, mostly.
But she's also taken some math and science - she LOVED anthropology
and off and on considers going into anthropology as a career. She's
had leads in a number of musicals - she's good at it. She takes lots
of dance, acting, singing related classes. She's shy, offstage, kind
of naturally a timid sort of person. However, she's taken a HUGE leap
- a very very very brave move for her - and gone off to Paris, France,
to spend three months in a study-abroad program.
She earned some of the money for the trip by working at Mervyn's
department store. She's been in France for 5 weeks. It was difficult
for her and she spent some time pretty homesick, even while absolutely
LOVING being there. She lives in a tiny apartment on the left bank
with a roommate. Her street is a popular one for little cafes, shops,
restaurants, clubs. She has a pass to the Louvre and goes there all
the time - even if she just has a free hour or two. She's made friends
and has some weekend trips with friends coming up - they're going to
London for a weekend and then to Ireland another weekend. The school
she's with took them to Versailles for a couple of days and to the
Loire Valley for a weekend. Right now she's in Germany with my
husband's brother and his son, and they'll be going to Spain tomorrow
to spend a week with my husband's sister and her family for the
Persian New Year (my husband is from Iran, originally) - so lots of
extended family that Roxana hasn't ever really even met before. VERY
exciting. She's gotten over her homesickness and is having a blast.
When she comes home in May, Roxana is going to live at home again,
spend the next year taking more college courses and doing musicals.
Then her plan is to transfer to a university - but she's not 100
percent sure what she wants to do there - too many great choices,
she's not quite ready to narrow it down. She has time.
Rosie is 17. She also does dance, musical theater, singing. She
watches a LOT of tv - loves it. A lot of our best discussions are
triggered by tv shows such as Gilmore Girls, West Wing, Friends, etc.
She also spends a lot of time with friends playing games - Magic, the
Gathering, D&D, and board games. They also play a lot of video games.
She has a black belt in Kung Fu and plays soccer on an AYSO team that
plays pretty much year-round. She's a Girl Scout and working on her
Gold Award Project - which is called "Martial Arts for All" and is
about making martial arts accessible and available to people with
disabilities. A few years ago, Rosie created a website about
homeschooling (which is mostly photos with captions), as part of her
junior girl scout bronze award project. If you want to look at it, it
is here: <http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/unschoolingrose/
index.html>. Rose has a job at the martial arts studio, teaching Kung
Fu about 8 to 10 classes per week. She's also on their demo team. She
thinks she might want to own her own dance and/or martial arts studio
in the future.
So - that's the view from this end of homeschooling. No big problems -
lots of fun and excitement and success.
Listing "achievements" and "activities" is kind of misleading. It
makes us look more frenetic than what our life really feels like. We
are busy, that's true. But, yesterday, Rosie and I went in the
afternoon to see a musical that a bunch of people we know were in,
then she went and played games with friends until about 1 in the
morning, then she and I sat up and watched sometv together after Cyrus
and I had watched the movie, "The Illusionist." Today she's going to
another musical with friends, then she'll be home the rest of the
evening. She's taking a stage makeup class and on Sunday evenings she
usually practices on me.
So - there's a smattering of stuff about grown unschoolers.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But we live in a world where we are surrounded byAnd, you think that is a bad thing? Your puritan roots are showing. <g>
> entertainments.
> Although some people can get jobs working inI live in Southern California - the entertainment industry is by far
> entertainments
our biggest private sector employer. I know a zillion people who work
in the movie industry, television, theater, and video games -
performers and technical people. I mean, seriously, the MAJORITY of
people I know have a connection to the entertainment industry. Even my
husband, who is an economist for the electricity company, deals with
the entertainment industry - it is such a huge industry here that
their electricity use is major. Heck, even I, myself, recently took a
part-time job as the box office manager at a theater. And, then there
are the people who work at the theme parks - ride-operators and
concession sellers are the entry-level jobs, but I also know the
person who takes care of the horses at Disneyland, a lighting designer
for their shows, dancers and actors, a drummer in a band, and tour
guides and much more.
> ,a child can play for their whole life and have noDo you know any like that or are you making up worst case scenarios in
> concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work.
your head? I don't know one single always-unschooled young adult like
that - grown up with no concept of making a living or what adults do
at work? Not a ONE. By FAR the opposite - the unschooled older teens
and young adults I know are much MORE aware of the world of careers
and work than kids in high school or even in college (who seem to live
in their own very limited world).
PLAY their whole life? Let's hope. Lots of the people I know have
turned their "play" into careers. One of my daughters (I'll write
about her job, below) even majored in "Recreation and Leisure Studies"
in college.
> MostMaybe not at 10 or even 13 or 15 years old - but big changes happen in
> places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
> interest they won't want to see it anyway!
the late teens. Don't be in such a hurry.
>Roya is 23. Unschooled. She spent her childhood making collages,
> Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
> tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
watching tv, playing pretend games with her sisters and friends,
singing, making up stories, playing dolls, cutting and pasting and
coloring and drawing and swimming in our pool. She started doing
ceramics at 14 and kept up a passionate interest in ceramics (throwing
pots) since. We thought she'd go to college and get an art degree -
what she really wanted was the studio resources at the college, more
than anything. As a result of her interest in ceramics, she became
close to the ceramics instructor, who recommended her for a job at a
company that makes and sells glazes and clays. She worked in their
retail shop. She was 17 or so. After a year or so of doing that full
time (she got so much GREAT experience there - in so many ways I
couldn't even begin to list it all), she decided to go to college more
seriously (take general ed courses, etc, whereas before she'd been
taking almost all fine arts classes). She got a job as a lab tech in
the ceramics studio at the college. She took college courses, did her
ceramics, hung out with friends. She'd always loved the outdoors and
travel. Somewhere in there she'd gone off and traveled all over the
United States, on her own, for several months - taking busses and
trains, visiting other unschooled kids she'd met at conferences and
Not-Back-to-School Camp. We'd done a lot of camping - she'd been an
active Girl Scout all her life. So, she discovered with GLEE, reading
through the college catalog, that there was a major called
"Recreation." We looked into the kinds of jobs recreation majors ended
up with - it included forest ranger jobs and people who organized
recreation programs and therapeutic recreation and all kinds of
things. Roya had always dreamed and talked about running a camp -
somewhere in a mountain forest - for people to explore the fine arts
and experience outdoor challenges. She thought of getting a business
degree, to help her with figuring out how to run a camp like that, but
decided to major in recreation when she saw that they had courses
specifically geared to helping her learn to do what she'd dreamed of
doing. In the meantime, she got a job working with mentally disabled
young adults in a program that offered life-skills help - which
included helping them develop hobbies and enjoy recreational activities.
She got her bachelor's degree and left the next day to spend the
summer working as a forest ranger in the back country of a state park
in Alaska. That was an adventure and a half, to say the least.
Then, she came home and looked for another job. She got one giving
science tours to school kids at a big nature center. She worked there
for a while, but it was pretty boring. Then she got a job as the
event/excursion organizer for a nonprofit organization that provides
all kinds of services to people with developmental/mental
disabilities. She LOVES working there and it is a really good job -
pay is good, great benefits, super nice people. She organizes trips -
everything from going bowling to going kayaking in the ocean to going
to a dude ranch in Arizona to an Alaskan cruise to a rock-climbing
trip. They're going to London for a week later this year. She goes on
all the trips - is in charge of them. She's awesome at her job - it is
perfect for her. She just had a performance review and it was glowing
- they gave her a 6% pay increase.
She lives in her own little house with her boyfriend, who also has a
degree in recreation (they met in college). She just bought herself a
new car - a sensible one (2008 Toyota Yaris). She does karate, plays
disc golf, goes swimming. She still does ceramics regularly. She's
decorated her little house - painted it beautifully and hung her own
oil paintings. She knits and crochets. She reads and listens to music
a lot. She watches tv - mostly dvd's of West Wing and Gilmore Girls,
and lots of movies. She hangs out with her sisters and we have lots of
extended family get-togethers.
So - that's Roya. More or less. I left a lot out, of course. She's
spoken at unschooling conferences - so there are people here who have
met her.
Roxana is my 20 year old. She's an actress - musical theater, mostly,
and "making it on Broadway" is her dream. She's also a literature
lover and is very analytically minded. She writes poetry and stories.
She has taken a lot of college courses, all taken because they
appealed to her - history, literature, social science courses, mostly.
But she's also taken some math and science - she LOVED anthropology
and off and on considers going into anthropology as a career. She's
had leads in a number of musicals - she's good at it. She takes lots
of dance, acting, singing related classes. She's shy, offstage, kind
of naturally a timid sort of person. However, she's taken a HUGE leap
- a very very very brave move for her - and gone off to Paris, France,
to spend three months in a study-abroad program.
She earned some of the money for the trip by working at Mervyn's
department store. She's been in France for 5 weeks. It was difficult
for her and she spent some time pretty homesick, even while absolutely
LOVING being there. She lives in a tiny apartment on the left bank
with a roommate. Her street is a popular one for little cafes, shops,
restaurants, clubs. She has a pass to the Louvre and goes there all
the time - even if she just has a free hour or two. She's made friends
and has some weekend trips with friends coming up - they're going to
London for a weekend and then to Ireland another weekend. The school
she's with took them to Versailles for a couple of days and to the
Loire Valley for a weekend. Right now she's in Germany with my
husband's brother and his son, and they'll be going to Spain tomorrow
to spend a week with my husband's sister and her family for the
Persian New Year (my husband is from Iran, originally) - so lots of
extended family that Roxana hasn't ever really even met before. VERY
exciting. She's gotten over her homesickness and is having a blast.
When she comes home in May, Roxana is going to live at home again,
spend the next year taking more college courses and doing musicals.
Then her plan is to transfer to a university - but she's not 100
percent sure what she wants to do there - too many great choices,
she's not quite ready to narrow it down. She has time.
Rosie is 17. She also does dance, musical theater, singing. She
watches a LOT of tv - loves it. A lot of our best discussions are
triggered by tv shows such as Gilmore Girls, West Wing, Friends, etc.
She also spends a lot of time with friends playing games - Magic, the
Gathering, D&D, and board games. They also play a lot of video games.
She has a black belt in Kung Fu and plays soccer on an AYSO team that
plays pretty much year-round. She's a Girl Scout and working on her
Gold Award Project - which is called "Martial Arts for All" and is
about making martial arts accessible and available to people with
disabilities. A few years ago, Rosie created a website about
homeschooling (which is mostly photos with captions), as part of her
junior girl scout bronze award project. If you want to look at it, it
is here: <http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/unschoolingrose/
index.html>. Rose has a job at the martial arts studio, teaching Kung
Fu about 8 to 10 classes per week. She's also on their demo team. She
thinks she might want to own her own dance and/or martial arts studio
in the future.
So - that's the view from this end of homeschooling. No big problems -
lots of fun and excitement and success.
Listing "achievements" and "activities" is kind of misleading. It
makes us look more frenetic than what our life really feels like. We
are busy, that's true. But, yesterday, Rosie and I went in the
afternoon to see a musical that a bunch of people we know were in,
then she went and played games with friends until about 1 in the
morning, then she and I sat up and watched sometv together after Cyrus
and I had watched the movie, "The Illusionist." Today she's going to
another musical with friends, then she'll be home the rest of the
evening. She's taking a stage makeup class and on Sunday evenings she
usually practices on me.
So - there's a smattering of stuff about grown unschoolers.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stacey
okay..i'm new to unschooling but this is what i do with my kids for
geography/science, etc.
we watch nemo (example) and we have world map on the wall. i'll
point out australia- that's where nemo was going! they get excited,
they still remember. maybe i'm on the internet and i'll pull up
pictures/slides of australia (like the slide shows) or other shows
(toy story-japan/madagascar/given-anatrctic)
anyways, is this unschooling? they like the show, they now 'want' to
know where on the map the shows are (sometimes they don't show..so i
guess;)-let them know, though) i may find food they eat there (they
like to cook) what animals live there. they like the pictures, people
and scenery. they have a lot of penpals, and that helps them with
their writing.
am i on the right track? or am i still...'over thinking' it. we're
on the blockbuster online thing, we get 2 movies a month, so we
watch 'alot' of movies;) i read to them (like that), but
predominantly..(i have probelms with depression, i wish sometimes i
was up for more reading!! they like the one-on-one with mom) movie.
they play, like to dig in the dirt..ALOT. they love the
ducks/ducklings and cats outside (we live on a lake), finding the
nests, etc. if i find sites or movies with animals-i know they're
winners!;)
okay, time for critique:)
want to unschool...scared to let go;)
stacey
geography/science, etc.
we watch nemo (example) and we have world map on the wall. i'll
point out australia- that's where nemo was going! they get excited,
they still remember. maybe i'm on the internet and i'll pull up
pictures/slides of australia (like the slide shows) or other shows
(toy story-japan/madagascar/given-anatrctic)
anyways, is this unschooling? they like the show, they now 'want' to
know where on the map the shows are (sometimes they don't show..so i
guess;)-let them know, though) i may find food they eat there (they
like to cook) what animals live there. they like the pictures, people
and scenery. they have a lot of penpals, and that helps them with
their writing.
am i on the right track? or am i still...'over thinking' it. we're
on the blockbuster online thing, we get 2 movies a month, so we
watch 'alot' of movies;) i read to them (like that), but
predominantly..(i have probelms with depression, i wish sometimes i
was up for more reading!! they like the one-on-one with mom) movie.
they play, like to dig in the dirt..ALOT. they love the
ducks/ducklings and cats outside (we live on a lake), finding the
nests, etc. if i find sites or movies with animals-i know they're
winners!;)
okay, time for critique:)
want to unschool...scared to let go;)
stacey
>can
> > I have tried strewing and offering all sorts of things, and they
> > all have gotten very little response.
>
> Are you involving yourself in anything you strew or offer? I've
> found that to be a very important component of our lifestyle. I
> put something interesting on the table and they'll walk by it withbook
> hardly a glance. But if I sit at the table and start looking at it
> or doing it, they'll naturally flow to me to see what I'm doing.
>
> Great example: a couple of days ago I got out our recorder and
> because I wanted to play. I wasn't thinking about the kids butjust
> following my own interest. My dd9 heard me playing and wanted toArtic
> learn, so she took the recorder and book and went into her room.
> She's been playing alot the past couple of days and doing very well
> with it. But now I have to go buy another recorder because I still
> want to play! LOL
>
> Another: I wanted to watch a National Geographic video called
> Tale. When I first got it from the library, I showed it to thekids
> and they weren't interested at all. They said they didn't reallyone
> like watching documentaries about animals. I didn't bring it home
> because I wanted them to watch it and learn something. I am the
> interested in the artic animals. But once I turned it on, the kids
> ended up coming into the living room and watching it with me. It
> sparked lots of discussion over the next few days.
>
> Beth M.
>
k g
Thanks Pam! That was great! I especially enjoyed Rosie's website. I'm saving it for inspiration,so whenever I feel insecure I can look at it and feel reasured that it'll all work out.
-Kelly
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-Kelly
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen
What a great post! Thanks so much for sharing.
Karen
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela Sorooshian
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 2:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] trusting your child,need some reasurance!
Karen
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pamela Sorooshian
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 2:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] trusting your child,need some reasurance!
On Mar 15, 2008, at 3:59 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
> But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
> entertainments.
And, you think that is a bad thing? Your puritan roots are showing. <g>
> Although some people can get jobs working in
> entertainments
I live in Southern California - the entertainment industry is by far
our biggest private sector employer. I know a zillion people who work
in the movie industry, television, theater, and video games -
performers and technical people. I mean, seriously, the MAJORITY of
people I know have a connection to the entertainment industry. Even my
husband, who is an economist for the electricity company, deals with
the entertainment industry - it is such a huge industry here that
their electricity use is major. Heck, even I, myself, recently took a
part-time job as the box office manager at a theater. And, then there
are the people who work at the theme parks - ride-operators and
concession sellers are the entry-level jobs, but I also know the
person who takes care of the horses at Disneyland, a lighting designer
for their shows, dancers and actors, a drummer in a band, and tour
guides and much more.
> ,a child can play for their whole life and have no
> concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work.
Do you know any like that or are you making up worst case scenarios in
your head? I don't know one single always-unschooled young adult like
that - grown up with no concept of making a living or what adults do
at work? Not a ONE. By FAR the opposite - the unschooled older teens
and young adults I know are much MORE aware of the world of careers
and work than kids in high school or even in college (who seem to live
in their own very limited world).
PLAY their whole life? Let's hope. Lots of the people I know have
turned their "play" into careers. One of my daughters (I'll write
about her job, below) even majored in "Recreation and Leisure Studies"
in college.
> Most
> places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they have no
> interest they won't want to see it anyway!
Maybe not at 10 or even 13 or 15 years old - but big changes happen in
the late teens. Don't be in such a hurry.
>
> Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
> tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
Roya is 23. Unschooled. She spent her childhood making collages,
watching tv, playing pretend games with her sisters and friends,
singing, making up stories, playing dolls, cutting and pasting and
coloring and drawing and swimming in our pool. She started doing
ceramics at 14 and kept up a passionate interest in ceramics (throwing
pots) since. We thought she'd go to college and get an art degree -
what she really wanted was the studio resources at the college, more
than anything. As a result of her interest in ceramics, she became
close to the ceramics instructor, who recommended her for a job at a
company that makes and sells glazes and clays. She worked in their
retail shop. She was 17 or so. After a year or so of doing that full
time (she got so much GREAT experience there - in so many ways I
couldn't even begin to list it all), she decided to go to college more
seriously (take general ed courses, etc, whereas before she'd been
taking almost all fine arts classes). She got a job as a lab tech in
the ceramics studio at the college. She took college courses, did her
ceramics, hung out with friends. She'd always loved the outdoors and
travel. Somewhere in there she'd gone off and traveled all over the
United States, on her own, for several months - taking busses and
trains, visiting other unschooled kids she'd met at conferences and
Not-Back-to-School Camp. We'd done a lot of camping - she'd been an
active Girl Scout all her life. So, she discovered with GLEE, reading
through the college catalog, that there was a major called
"Recreation." We looked into the kinds of jobs recreation majors ended
up with - it included forest ranger jobs and people who organized
recreation programs and therapeutic recreation and all kinds of
things. Roya had always dreamed and talked about running a camp -
somewhere in a mountain forest - for people to explore the fine arts
and experience outdoor challenges. She thought of getting a business
degree, to help her with figuring out how to run a camp like that, but
decided to major in recreation when she saw that they had courses
specifically geared to helping her learn to do what she'd dreamed of
doing. In the meantime, she got a job working with mentally disabled
young adults in a program that offered life-skills help - which
included helping them develop hobbies and enjoy recreational activities.
She got her bachelor's degree and left the next day to spend the
summer working as a forest ranger in the back country of a state park
in Alaska. That was an adventure and a half, to say the least.
Then, she came home and looked for another job. She got one giving
science tours to school kids at a big nature center. She worked there
for a while, but it was pretty boring. Then she got a job as the
event/excursion organizer for a nonprofit organization that provides
all kinds of services to people with developmental/mental
disabilities. She LOVES working there and it is a really good job -
pay is good, great benefits, super nice people. She organizes trips -
everything from going bowling to going kayaking in the ocean to going
to a dude ranch in Arizona to an Alaskan cruise to a rock-climbing
trip. They're going to London for a week later this year. She goes on
all the trips - is in charge of them. She's awesome at her job - it is
perfect for her. She just had a performance review and it was glowing
- they gave her a 6% pay increase.
She lives in her own little house with her boyfriend, who also has a
degree in recreation (they met in college). She just bought herself a
new car - a sensible one (2008 Toyota Yaris). She does karate, plays
disc golf, goes swimming. She still does ceramics regularly. She's
decorated her little house - painted it beautifully and hung her own
oil paintings. She knits and crochets. She reads and listens to music
a lot. She watches tv - mostly dvd's of West Wing and Gilmore Girls,
and lots of movies. She hangs out with her sisters and we have lots of
extended family get-togethers.
So - that's Roya. More or less. I left a lot out, of course. She's
spoken at unschooling conferences - so there are people here who have
met her.
Roxana is my 20 year old. She's an actress - musical theater, mostly,
and "making it on Broadway" is her dream. She's also a literature
lover and is very analytically minded. She writes poetry and stories.
She has taken a lot of college courses, all taken because they
appealed to her - history, literature, social science courses, mostly.
But she's also taken some math and science - she LOVED anthropology
and off and on considers going into anthropology as a career. She's
had leads in a number of musicals - she's good at it. She takes lots
of dance, acting, singing related classes. She's shy, offstage, kind
of naturally a timid sort of person. However, she's taken a HUGE leap
- a very very very brave move for her - and gone off to Paris, France,
to spend three months in a study-abroad program.
She earned some of the money for the trip by working at Mervyn's
department store. She's been in France for 5 weeks. It was difficult
for her and she spent some time pretty homesick, even while absolutely
LOVING being there. She lives in a tiny apartment on the left bank
with a roommate. Her street is a popular one for little cafes, shops,
restaurants, clubs. She has a pass to the Louvre and goes there all
the time - even if she just has a free hour or two. She's made friends
and has some weekend trips with friends coming up - they're going to
London for a weekend and then to Ireland another weekend. The school
she's with took them to Versailles for a couple of days and to the
Loire Valley for a weekend. Right now she's in Germany with my
husband's brother and his son, and they'll be going to Spain tomorrow
to spend a week with my husband's sister and her family for the
Persian New Year (my husband is from Iran, originally) - so lots of
extended family that Roxana hasn't ever really even met before. VERY
exciting. She's gotten over her homesickness and is having a blast.
When she comes home in May, Roxana is going to live at home again,
spend the next year taking more college courses and doing musicals.
Then her plan is to transfer to a university - but she's not 100
percent sure what she wants to do there - too many great choices,
she's not quite ready to narrow it down. She has time.
Rosie is 17. She also does dance, musical theater, singing. She
watches a LOT of tv - loves it. A lot of our best discussions are
triggered by tv shows such as Gilmore Girls, West Wing, Friends, etc.
She also spends a lot of time with friends playing games - Magic, the
Gathering, D&D, and board games. They also play a lot of video games.
She has a black belt in Kung Fu and plays soccer on an AYSO team that
plays pretty much year-round. She's a Girl Scout and working on her
Gold Award Project - which is called "Martial Arts for All" and is
about making martial arts accessible and available to people with
disabilities. A few years ago, Rosie created a website about
homeschooling (which is mostly photos with captions), as part of her
junior girl scout bronze award project. If you want to look at it, it
is here: <http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/unschoolingrose/
index.html>. Rose has a job at the martial arts studio, teaching Kung
Fu about 8 to 10 classes per week. She's also on their demo team. She
thinks she might want to own her own dance and/or martial arts studio
in the future.
So - that's the view from this end of homeschooling. No big problems -
lots of fun and excitement and success.
Listing "achievements" and "activities" is kind of misleading. It
makes us look more frenetic than what our life really feels like. We
are busy, that's true. But, yesterday, Rosie and I went in the
afternoon to see a musical that a bunch of people we know were in,
then she went and played games with friends until about 1 in the
morning, then she and I sat up and watched sometv together after Cyrus
and I had watched the movie, "The Illusionist." Today she's going to
another musical with friends, then she'll be home the rest of the
evening. She's taking a stage makeup class and on Sunday evenings she
usually practices on me.
So - there's a smattering of stuff about grown unschoolers.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
online? They have used the online walkthroughs and cheats.
I am not really involved at all. So I guess I really don't get what
is going on in the game. I realize that if they were playing chess
all day I'd be more relaxed about it.I guess I should start thinking
of pokemon as chess!
In CT right now we don't have any laws about regulating what we can
and cannot teach,but they have been trying to make a law that shows
we are teaching "equivalent education". I know that since this has
not happened it may never happen, but just in case,how would I record
days/weeks of pokemon games as equivalent education?
I suppose it is all this recent discussion about the law as well as
the California situation that has me feeling so insecure.
-Kelly
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>We don't have guides. Where do I find one? Is it a book or something
> If they have the gaming guides -- which they should! -- there's
> information arranged in all manner of charts and graphs.
online? They have used the online walkthroughs and cheats.
> Instead of trying to pull them away from Pokemon, find out moreabout
> Pokemon......All good sugestions,thanks! Right now it is mostly them playing, and
I am not really involved at all. So I guess I really don't get what
is going on in the game. I realize that if they were playing chess
all day I'd be more relaxed about it.I guess I should start thinking
of pokemon as chess!
In CT right now we don't have any laws about regulating what we can
and cannot teach,but they have been trying to make a law that shows
we are teaching "equivalent education". I know that since this has
not happened it may never happen, but just in case,how would I record
days/weeks of pokemon games as equivalent education?
I suppose it is all this recent discussion about the law as well as
the California situation that has me feeling so insecure.
-Kelly
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
even homeschooled.I know people who are 35-40 years old, living at
home with thier parents, they don't work,they just play video games
all day.All of them went to school though,and then played games all
day as soon as they came home. Even my DH has told me that he really
doesn't realize that I am working around the house because he never
had any house chores as a child. He said that his mom was always
just shuffling about in the background while he played with his
friends. Clothes just appeared in his drawer everyday and he never
really though about how they got there.
unschhooled. Perhaps the kids that don't have a concept of making a
living got there because of the artificial and separate environment
in school. It is hard for me to trust,seeing that it can happen, that
if I allow my kids to play games now, every day ,to trust that they
will learn to be reponsible, working adults.
afraid of.
-Kelly
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>in
>
> >
> > ,a child can play for their whole life and have no
> > concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work.
>
> Do you know any like that or are you making up worst case scenarios
> your head?Yes, I do know people like that ,but none of them are unschooled or
even homeschooled.I know people who are 35-40 years old, living at
home with thier parents, they don't work,they just play video games
all day.All of them went to school though,and then played games all
day as soon as they came home. Even my DH has told me that he really
doesn't realize that I am working around the house because he never
had any house chores as a child. He said that his mom was always
just shuffling about in the background while he played with his
friends. Clothes just appeared in his drawer everyday and he never
really though about how they got there.
>I don't know one single always-unschooled young adult likedo
> that - grown up with no concept of making a living or what adults
> at work? Not a ONE. By FAR the opposite - the unschooled olderteens
> and young adults I know are much MORE aware of the world ofcareers
> and work than kids in high school or even in college (who seem tolive
> in their own very limited world).That's good to hear.I don't know any adults who were homeschooled or
>
unschhooled. Perhaps the kids that don't have a concept of making a
living got there because of the artificial and separate environment
in school. It is hard for me to trust,seeing that it can happen, that
if I allow my kids to play games now, every day ,to trust that they
will learn to be reponsible, working adults.
> PLAY their whole life? Let's hope. Lots of the people I know haveI've got no problem with that!It's play instead of career that I'm
> turned their "play" into careers.
afraid of.
-Kelly
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 16, 2008, at 5:01 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
with similar guides. The Prima are a bit cheaper. We think it shows
but they're still useful.
Sometimes you can get Nintendo on Amazon, but Amazon doesn't sell new
ones and the used ones sometimes are more expensive than buying used!
on my reports as far as math is concerned. I just mentioned what
skills she was working on for math and reading. For the other
subjects I listed activities but not skills.
I keep a file on my computer desktop so that I can just click it and
fill in something she's done. That way I don't have a huge task of
trying to remember all that happened over the year.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> We don't have guides. Where do I find one? Is it a book or somethingYes, books. Nintendo makes the best ones, but Prima also comes out
> online? They have used the online walkthroughs and cheats.
with similar guides. The Prima are a bit cheaper. We think it shows
but they're still useful.
Sometimes you can get Nintendo on Amazon, but Amazon doesn't sell new
ones and the used ones sometimes are more expensive than buying used!
> but they have been trying to make a law that showsWe've had that all along in MA. I've never had to get that detailed
> we are teaching "equivalent education"
on my reports as far as math is concerned. I just mentioned what
skills she was working on for math and reading. For the other
subjects I listed activities but not skills.
I keep a file on my computer desktop so that I can just click it and
fill in something she's done. That way I don't have a huge task of
trying to remember all that happened over the year.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barefootmamax4
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
knows all about the game. I think he might say different if he could
see one, so I'll look anyway,at least I can show it to him then he
can decide if he wants it.
reading skills used in pokemon?
I do keep a notebook where I write what we have done every few days.
It's easy to see what to write on the days that we used the
microscope , watched an eclipse or the day when Tia asked about the
plague,because those are things that might also be taught in school
under science and history.
-Kelly
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>shows
>
> On Mar 16, 2008, at 5:01 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
>
> >.
>
> Yes, books. Nintendo makes the best ones, but Prima also comes out
> with similar guides. The Prima are a bit cheaper. We think it
> but they're still useful.Rainy has just informed me that he doesn't NEED the guide,that he
>
knows all about the game. I think he might say different if he could
see one, so I'll look anyway,at least I can show it to him then he
can decide if he wants it.
> I just mentioned whatand
> skills she was working on for math and reading. For the other
> subjects I listed activities but not skills.
>
> I keep a file on my computer desktop so that I can just click it
> fill in something she's done. That way I don't have a huge task ofCould you give me an example? Like what might I put down for math and
> trying to remember all that happened over the year.
reading skills used in pokemon?
I do keep a notebook where I write what we have done every few days.
It's easy to see what to write on the days that we used the
microscope , watched an eclipse or the day when Tia asked about the
plague,because those are things that might also be taught in school
under science and history.
-Kelly
diana jenner
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Stacey <alabtu@...> wrote:
Excited? Happy? Again, it's the *why* behind the pointing out of stuff that
is so important to keep in mind. We talked about Australia when we watched
Nemo, and all the other amazing stuff that was sparked (and keeps being
sparked each time we watch it!) -- because it's interesting and exciting
(the geography/science schtuff is a bonus, *not* the purpose!!)
mainstream lifestyle doesn't want to deal with, alas another time and place
for *that* discussion ::bg::) -- If it's snuggling with mama they want, then
snuggle!! If it's reading to they want, and mama just ain't got it in her at
the moment, why not have Steven Fry or Jim Dale read Harry Potter to you
all? It's nice to be read to as an adult, too (and I happen to LOVE both of
their voices!). I know what it's like to use all your energy to be
physically present... I know what it's like to use the Flow times to prepare
for the Ebb times... curl up and knit or crochet and be *near* and
*available* for the things you *can* do and truly appreciate the times you
can do *more* :D_,___
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> okay..i'm new to unschooling but this is what i do with my kids forOver thinking being on the right track :D Everyone having fun? Interested?
> geography/science, etc.
> we watch nemo (example) and we have world map on the wall. i'll
> point out australia- that's where nemo was going! they get excited,
> they still remember. maybe i'm on the internet and i'll pull up
> pictures/slides of australia (like the slide shows) or other shows
> (toy story-japan/madagascar/given-anatrctic)
> anyways, is this unschooling? they like the show, they now 'want' to
> know where on the map the shows are (sometimes they don't show..so i
> guess;)-let them know, though) i may find food they eat there (they
> like to cook) what animals live there. they like the pictures, people
> and scenery. they have a lot of penpals, and that helps them with
> their writing.
> am i on the right track? or am i still...'over thinking' it.
>
Excited? Happy? Again, it's the *why* behind the pointing out of stuff that
is so important to keep in mind. We talked about Australia when we watched
Nemo, and all the other amazing stuff that was sparked (and keeps being
sparked each time we watch it!) -- because it's interesting and exciting
(the geography/science schtuff is a bonus, *not* the purpose!!)
> we'reI've got ebbs and flows, too (personally, I think it's a human quality the
> on the blockbuster online thing, we get 2 movies a month, so we
> watch 'alot' of movies;) i read to them (like that), but
> predominantly..(i have probelms with depression, i wish sometimes i
> was up for more reading!! they like the one-on-one with mom) movie.
> they play, like to dig in the dirt..ALOT. they love the
> ducks/ducklings and cats outside (we live on a lake), finding the
> nests, etc. if i find sites or movies with animals-i know they're
> winners!;)
>
mainstream lifestyle doesn't want to deal with, alas another time and place
for *that* discussion ::bg::) -- If it's snuggling with mama they want, then
snuggle!! If it's reading to they want, and mama just ain't got it in her at
the moment, why not have Steven Fry or Jim Dale read Harry Potter to you
all? It's nice to be read to as an adult, too (and I happen to LOVE both of
their voices!). I know what it's like to use all your energy to be
physically present... I know what it's like to use the Flow times to prepare
for the Ebb times... curl up and knit or crochet and be *near* and
*available* for the things you *can* do and truly appreciate the times you
can do *more* :D_,___
> --~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stacey
Thanks for the advice:)
stacey
stacey
>for
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Stacey <alabtu@...> wrote:
>
> > okay..i'm new to unschooling but this is what i do with my kids
> > geography/science, etc.excited,
> > we watch nemo (example) and we have world map on the wall. i'll
> > point out australia- that's where nemo was going! they get
> > they still remember. maybe i'm on the internet and i'll pull upto
> > pictures/slides of australia (like the slide shows) or other shows
> > (toy story-japan/madagascar/given-anatrctic)
> > anyways, is this unschooling? they like the show, they now 'want'
> > know where on the map the shows are (sometimes they don'tshow..so i
> > guess;)-let them know, though) i may find food they eat there(they
> > like to cook) what animals live there. they like the pictures,people
> > and scenery. they have a lot of penpals, and that helps them withInterested?
> > their writing.
> > am i on the right track? or am i still...'over thinking' it.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Over thinking being on the right track :D Everyone having fun?
> Excited? Happy? Again, it's the *why* behind the pointing out ofstuff that
> is so important to keep in mind. We talked about Australia when wewatched
> Nemo, and all the other amazing stuff that was sparked (and keepsbeing
> sparked each time we watch it!) -- because it's interesting andexciting
> (the geography/science schtuff is a bonus, *not* the purpose!!)i
>
>
> > we're
> > on the blockbuster online thing, we get 2 movies a month, so we
> > watch 'alot' of movies;) i read to them (like that), but
> > predominantly..(i have probelms with depression, i wish sometimes
> > was up for more reading!! they like the one-on-one with mom)movie.
> > they play, like to dig in the dirt..ALOT. they love thequality the
> > ducks/ducklings and cats outside (we live on a lake), finding the
> > nests, etc. if i find sites or movies with animals-i know they're
> > winners!;)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've got ebbs and flows, too (personally, I think it's a human
> mainstream lifestyle doesn't want to deal with, alas another timeand place
> for *that* discussion ::bg::) -- If it's snuggling with mama theywant, then
> snuggle!! If it's reading to they want, and mama just ain't got itin her at
> the moment, why not have Steven Fry or Jim Dale read Harry Potterto you
> all? It's nice to be read to as an adult, too (and I happen to LOVEboth of
> their voices!). I know what it's like to use all your energy to beto prepare
> physically present... I know what it's like to use the Flow times
> for the Ebb times... curl up and knit or crochet and be *near* andtimes you
> *available* for the things you *can* do and truly appreciate the
> can do *more* :D_,___
>
> > --
> ~diana :)
> xoxoxoxo
> hannahbearski.blogspot.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pamela Sorooshian
My suggestion is that it interferes with unschooling to be constantly
thinking in terms of school subjects. So don't do that. Instead,
record things under "real" categories: reading, writing, discussing,
watching, listening, doing, making, visiting, thinking, playing, etc.
Later, if you have some reason to classify them as "subjects" - you
can always do it after-the-fact.
But this kind of recordkeeping will be more conducive to happy
unschooling.
-pam
thinking in terms of school subjects. So don't do that. Instead,
record things under "real" categories: reading, writing, discussing,
watching, listening, doing, making, visiting, thinking, playing, etc.
Later, if you have some reason to classify them as "subjects" - you
can always do it after-the-fact.
But this kind of recordkeeping will be more conducive to happy
unschooling.
-pam
On Mar 16, 2008, at 4:08 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
> Could you give me an example? Like what might I put down for math and
> reading skills used in pokemon?
> I do keep a notebook where I write what we have done every few days.
> It's easy to see what to write on the days that we used the
> microscope , watched an eclipse or the day when Tia asked about the
> plague,because those are things that might also be taught in school
> under science and history.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 16, 2008, at 7:08 PM, barefootmamax4 wrote:
lives. Begin with them and look outward at what they do rather than
beginning with skill lists to see where they measure up.
Try reading here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
That might help you.
Here's what Kat's report looked like when she was 11. This looks
*way* more formal than it was. And for those who need to do such
things like this, I was deliberately *not* trying to impress. The
report is supposed to show progress not that she's exceeding what the
schools are doing! Though I knew it wouldn't happen, I wanted to
leave room for progress for next year. So I didn't try to impress
with "reading an adult level book."
==============
Reading: Reading an adult level book slowly. Comprehends well and
reads complex instructions for meaning.
Writing, spelling, grammar: Nintendo Writing Class and Dungeons and
Dragons Writing Class. Also continues to write prolifically, both
comic books and beginning to dabble in fiction writing. Spelling is
decent. She seems to have more problems with common words (such as
spelling never as neaver) that she’s been spelling wrong long enough
that the wrong spelling look familiar than new and more complex
words. But even the misspelling of familiar words are becoming fewer
with time. She loves the spell checker on the computer which is
probably responsible for improvement of her spelling of common words.
Science: Pony care camp, gardening. Fascinated by anthropology and
delving into that.
Math: Programming games which involves algebra. Origami for geometry.
History/Social studies: Beginning Century Kids series that will
follow an American family decade by decade from 1900 to 2000. World
mythology. Dabbling in both American and history of Western
Civilization. Did a lot of traveling: LA, Albequerque, South
Carolina, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Las Vegas.
Health: Becoming personally aware and concerned about nutrition and
exercise. Working on increasing her endurance by jogging around the
track.
Art and music: Drawing nearly every day. Listening to a variety of
music, getting into parodies which sparks a curiosity about the
originals.
Joyce
> Could you give me an example? Like what might I put down for math andYou look *overall* at their skills that they're using in their daily
> reading skills used in pokemon?
lives. Begin with them and look outward at what they do rather than
beginning with skill lists to see where they measure up.
Try reading here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames
That might help you.
Here's what Kat's report looked like when she was 11. This looks
*way* more formal than it was. And for those who need to do such
things like this, I was deliberately *not* trying to impress. The
report is supposed to show progress not that she's exceeding what the
schools are doing! Though I knew it wouldn't happen, I wanted to
leave room for progress for next year. So I didn't try to impress
with "reading an adult level book."
==============
Reading: Reading an adult level book slowly. Comprehends well and
reads complex instructions for meaning.
Writing, spelling, grammar: Nintendo Writing Class and Dungeons and
Dragons Writing Class. Also continues to write prolifically, both
comic books and beginning to dabble in fiction writing. Spelling is
decent. She seems to have more problems with common words (such as
spelling never as neaver) that she’s been spelling wrong long enough
that the wrong spelling look familiar than new and more complex
words. But even the misspelling of familiar words are becoming fewer
with time. She loves the spell checker on the computer which is
probably responsible for improvement of her spelling of common words.
Science: Pony care camp, gardening. Fascinated by anthropology and
delving into that.
Math: Programming games which involves algebra. Origami for geometry.
History/Social studies: Beginning Century Kids series that will
follow an American family decade by decade from 1900 to 2000. World
mythology. Dabbling in both American and history of Western
Civilization. Did a lot of traveling: LA, Albequerque, South
Carolina, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Las Vegas.
Health: Becoming personally aware and concerned about nutrition and
exercise. Working on increasing her endurance by jogging around the
track.
Art and music: Drawing nearly every day. Listening to a variety of
music, getting into parodies which sparks a curiosity about the
originals.
Joyce
carnationsgalore
> okay..i'm new to unschooling but this is what i do with my kidsOne thing that is really hard to do when trying to transition into
> for geography/science, etc.
the unschooling lifestyle is to stop putting things into schooly
categories. Now, if you must write them down to turn them in to the
school board or whatever, then that is different. I'm sure there
are unschoolers who can help you with that educationalese. But even
so, I'd try to remember that way of thinking is for the schools not
real life.
I'm just trying to help you get past the stage where you feel like
your kids are just playing and not learning. When I began
unschooling, I stopped using a schedule but left all our school
books on the shelves. I expected my children to happily work
through academic subjects because they were choosing what subject to
do and when to do it. I was still thinking that math had to be
conquered with a program, history had to be contained all in one
resource to understand, writing would be more interesting if they
could choose their topics, etc. I was still viewing our daily lives
as being broken into schooly components. But I finally realized
that none of that was real life. They didn't see me working through
math books, reading history books (well, sometimes they did, but it
was good books and not dry textbooks), or writing essays or
journaling on a daily basis.
I have always had resources around such as maps on the walls, a
globe within reach, a wooden U.S. puzzle, a states & capitals card
game, a placemat with all the U.S. Presidents on it, counting
posters, multiplication posters, multiplication war card game and
lots of books just to name some.
Since you have a map on the wall they like to look at, maybe you can
make little tags for it. Cut out a small circle, the size of a
quarter, draw a picture of Nemo on it, put tape on the back and
stick it on Australia. We had a map with lots of tags from books we
were reading. If we read a book that took place in a fantasy land,
we put the tag outside the wall map border.
I too have to deal with depression and anxiety, so I can understand
what it's like. If the kids are in the mood for a read-aloud, I
might suggest something like Dr. Seuss, Junie B. Jones, or
Berenstain Bears. My kids are 9 and 11 and still absolutely love
hearing those books! It's hard to feel depressed when I'm reading
any of those. :)
I hope some of this helped. I'm transitioning back into unschooling
for the 3rd time in 5 years. Each time I let more mind-junk go, and
if I do fall back into schooly things it's been less and less of
it. We did schooly type work over the past 9 months, for example,
but not at all the way the work was intended to be done. Rather,
the material was a jumping off place for us to find interesting
things. It's been a slow journey but I can look back and see huge
changes in our thinking and behaviors over the years. I also love
to read and can recommend many of the books normally seen on these
lists.
Parenting a Free Child: An Unschooled Life by Rue Kream
The Unschooling Unmanual from The Natural Child Project
Homeschooling Our Children Unschooling Ourselves by Alison McKee
These are the ones I've finished recently and love them all!
Beth M.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
the unschooling lifestyle is to stop putting things into schooly
categories. Now, if you must write them down to turn them in to the
school board or whatever, then that is different. I'm sure there
are unschoolers who can help you with that educationalese. But even
so, I'd try to remember that way of thinking is for the schools not
real life.
-=-=-=-=-=--
I think, rather than stop putting things into schooly categories, it
would be *better* to "think in reverse."
What the original poster *has been* doing is to "cover" science and
history by doing certain things (Nemo, etc.) So her goal is cover
certain subjects by doing fun things.
I think it helps A LOT to put your child's learning into the school
categories. But the goal shouldn't be the school subjects. The goal
should be having fun. Then the *MOM'S* job is to turn what the kids are
having fun at *into* educationese---after the fact.
So---rather than cover science and history by playing around with Nemo,
you play around with Nemo and find the science and history (and math
and social studies and mapping and physics and art and music and....).
<G>
It's the reverse of what schools do.
I think it helps a LOT (especially in the beginning) to be able to look
at what your children are enjoying and finding the learning that is
happening *already*.
In South Carolina, we have to document the learning. We have to keep a
plan book/journal/daily planner and a portfolio of their work. It's so
easy to record what happened today and turn it into educationese. But
it's helpful to be able to document what's happening and know
*something* is happening! Too often new unschooling parents really
think that their children do NOTHING all day except play games (often
just video games). Even if that *is* true, there's so much learning
going on with the gaming, and that should be documented. But there's
MORE going on in a day than just gaming.
*THINK* about what is being learned through gaming. THINK about what is
being learned through conversations. THINK about what they're learning
on TV. THINK about all the child does throughout the day and FIND the
learning that is happening.
If you were to document it all for a month, you'd be amazed at what all
they're learning! To document it for a YEAR would be astounding! *I*
know! I have to! <g>
But do it "in reverse." Find the learning in what they do naturally.
Don't force the "doing" in order to cover the subjects.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
> okay..i'm new to unschooling but this is what i do with my kidsOne thing that is really hard to do when trying to transition into
> for geography/science, etc.
the unschooling lifestyle is to stop putting things into schooly
categories. Now, if you must write them down to turn them in to the
school board or whatever, then that is different. I'm sure there
are unschoolers who can help you with that educationalese. But even
so, I'd try to remember that way of thinking is for the schools not
real life.
-=-=-=-=-=--
I think, rather than stop putting things into schooly categories, it
would be *better* to "think in reverse."
What the original poster *has been* doing is to "cover" science and
history by doing certain things (Nemo, etc.) So her goal is cover
certain subjects by doing fun things.
I think it helps A LOT to put your child's learning into the school
categories. But the goal shouldn't be the school subjects. The goal
should be having fun. Then the *MOM'S* job is to turn what the kids are
having fun at *into* educationese---after the fact.
So---rather than cover science and history by playing around with Nemo,
you play around with Nemo and find the science and history (and math
and social studies and mapping and physics and art and music and....).
<G>
It's the reverse of what schools do.
I think it helps a LOT (especially in the beginning) to be able to look
at what your children are enjoying and finding the learning that is
happening *already*.
In South Carolina, we have to document the learning. We have to keep a
plan book/journal/daily planner and a portfolio of their work. It's so
easy to record what happened today and turn it into educationese. But
it's helpful to be able to document what's happening and know
*something* is happening! Too often new unschooling parents really
think that their children do NOTHING all day except play games (often
just video games). Even if that *is* true, there's so much learning
going on with the gaming, and that should be documented. But there's
MORE going on in a day than just gaming.
*THINK* about what is being learned through gaming. THINK about what is
being learned through conversations. THINK about what they're learning
on TV. THINK about all the child does throughout the day and FIND the
learning that is happening.
If you were to document it all for a month, you'd be amazed at what all
they're learning! To document it for a YEAR would be astounding! *I*
know! I have to! <g>
But do it "in reverse." Find the learning in what they do naturally.
Don't force the "doing" in order to cover the subjects.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
carnationsgalore
> I think, rather than stop putting things into schooly categories,That's a cool way of thinking about it.
> it would be *better* to "think in reverse."
> I think it helps A LOT to put your child's learning into theYes, that was what I was trying to say. It's just a little
> school categories. But the goal shouldn't be the school subjects.
> The goal should be having fun. Then the *MOM'S* job is to turn
> what the kids are having fun at *into* educationese---after the
> fact.
different for me since I don't have to put my children's learning
into school categories. It's been easier for me to accept
unschooling by consciously staying away from schoolish thinking.
That schoolish thinking is what was keeping me from being able to
unschool previously. I kept getting hung up on making sure that we
were covering the school subjects and getting stressed in figuring
out how to do it in a fun way that didn't seem like schoolwork.
What I was doing was homeschooling eclectically, not enjoying total
freedom the way I see unschooling to be. Now I just integrate my
children into my everyday life and let everything happen naturally.
Beth M.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
Yes, that was what I was trying to say. It's just a little
different for me since I don't have to put my children's learning
into school categories. It's been easier for me to accept
unschooling by consciously staying away from schoolish thinking.
That schoolish thinking is what was keeping me from being able to
unschool previously. I kept getting hung up on making sure that we
were covering the school subjects and getting stressed in figuring
out how to do it in a fun way that didn't seem like schoolwork.
What I was doing was homeschooling eclectically, not enjoying total
freedom the way I see unschooling to be. Now I just integrate my
children into my everyday life and let everything happen naturally.
-=-=-=-=-==-
Right---and it's because *you* can SEE the learning that's happening
every day.
But so many parents start unschooling and canNOT see the learning. They
just see *play*. <g>
But if you can start to see the actual learning that's happening during
*play*, then you can start accepting *play* as learning. <g>
There's NOTHING we do that doesn't contribute to our learning. Well, I
can't think of one! <G>
I think it depends on the person and where s/he's coming from.
Focusing on the subjects themselves *hinders* understanding that
learning is everywhere all the time. But too often parents can't *see*
the "subjects" because it doesn't look like what *they* consider
learning---it doesn't look like school, so it must not count.
But if we can get past that "visual" of what learning is "supposed" to
look like, we can *see* learning all around us.
It's a HUGE paradigm shift, but it's important. You know you've
"arrived" when you can see---and accept---that learning is happening
even without workbooks and texts and math sheets and testing. The
waters become calm.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
Yes, that was what I was trying to say. It's just a little
different for me since I don't have to put my children's learning
into school categories. It's been easier for me to accept
unschooling by consciously staying away from schoolish thinking.
That schoolish thinking is what was keeping me from being able to
unschool previously. I kept getting hung up on making sure that we
were covering the school subjects and getting stressed in figuring
out how to do it in a fun way that didn't seem like schoolwork.
What I was doing was homeschooling eclectically, not enjoying total
freedom the way I see unschooling to be. Now I just integrate my
children into my everyday life and let everything happen naturally.
-=-=-=-=-==-
Right---and it's because *you* can SEE the learning that's happening
every day.
But so many parents start unschooling and canNOT see the learning. They
just see *play*. <g>
But if you can start to see the actual learning that's happening during
*play*, then you can start accepting *play* as learning. <g>
There's NOTHING we do that doesn't contribute to our learning. Well, I
can't think of one! <G>
I think it depends on the person and where s/he's coming from.
Focusing on the subjects themselves *hinders* understanding that
learning is everywhere all the time. But too often parents can't *see*
the "subjects" because it doesn't look like what *they* consider
learning---it doesn't look like school, so it must not count.
But if we can get past that "visual" of what learning is "supposed" to
look like, we can *see* learning all around us.
It's a HUGE paradigm shift, but it's important. You know you've
"arrived" when you can see---and accept---that learning is happening
even without workbooks and texts and math sheets and testing. The
waters become calm.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[email protected]
From: barefootmamax4 <barefootmamax4@...>
The past few days I have been feeling very unsettled about unschooling.
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile?
-=-=-=-=-
If they were spending all day doing worksheets dealing with
categorizing and language and numbers and imagination, would that seem
more valuable to you?
-==-=-=-=-==-=
I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
-=-=-=-=-
Are you doing this *desperately* wanting them to choose something
different? Or are you tossing things out there with no expectation? <g>
-=-=-=-==
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
-=-=-=-=-
Can you FEED their passion right now? Can you strew MORE Pokemon? Can
you make Pokemon even MORE interesting?
Decorate their room(s) in Pokemon? Bake a Pokemon cake? Serve rice
balls and miso soup? Help them make their own Pokemon characters/cards?
-=-=-=-=-
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.
-=-=-=-=-
So what fun things do YOU do? Anything "funner" than Pokemon? <g>
-=-=-=-=-
But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work.
-==-=-
Schooled children. maybe, who are shut up in a box all day with no
exposure to actual working adults. But unschooled kids are LIVING and
LEARNING out in that world of adults. How in teh world would they not
be exposed to adults making livings or what they do at work. What do
*you* do all day?
-=-=-=-==-=-
Most places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they
have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
-=-=-=-=-
Do you go to the grocery store? Museums? Zoos? Rec centers? Target?
Walmart? Doctor's office? Dentist? Glass blowing studio?
If I'm not mistaken, there are adults working at ALL those places!
-=-=-=-=-
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-=-=-=-=-=-
My 20 year old son, Cameron, has his entire unschooled life documented
here in the archives. Do a search on this group for "Cameron." You'll
get a zillion hits.
He's leaving in June for a month of backpacking in the Yukon with
National Outdoor Leadership School for college credit. He just finished
a piece of artwork for his friends, Roxy and Fire. He'll be at the New
England Unschooling Conference in May and speaking at the Live and
Learn Unschooling Conference in September.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
The past few days I have been feeling very unsettled about unschooling.
I observe my kids playing DS all day, every day. They are mostly
playing pokemon.
I am having a really hard time seeing the value of endless hours of
pokemon. Can some one show me something that makes this a worthwhile
pastime? Is this worthwhile?
-=-=-=-=-
If they were spending all day doing worksheets dealing with
categorizing and language and numbers and imagination, would that seem
more valuable to you?
-==-=-=-=-==-=
I have tried strewing and offering all
sorts of things, and they all have gotten very little response. For
about one hour they played kickball, and that's about it for the week.
-=-=-=-=-
Are you doing this *desperately* wanting them to choose something
different? Or are you tossing things out there with no expectation? <g>
-=-=-=-==
I feel like I need to be exposing them to lots of things to experience
the world,but how can I do that when they are only interested in
experiencing one thing?
-=-=-=-=-
Can you FEED their passion right now? Can you strew MORE Pokemon? Can
you make Pokemon even MORE interesting?
Decorate their room(s) in Pokemon? Bake a Pokemon cake? Serve rice
balls and miso soup? Help them make their own Pokemon characters/cards?
-=-=-=-=-
I really feel that this should work, and I know it does in natural
societies,where the kids learn by imitation of the adults around
them,by choosing at any time to jion in adult activities or leave it
and play.
-=-=-=-=-
So what fun things do YOU do? Anything "funner" than Pokemon? <g>
-=-=-=-=-
But we live in a world where we are surrounded by
entertainments. Although some people can get jobs working in
entertainments,a child can play for their whole life and have no
concept of making a living or what adults do when they go to work.
-==-=-
Schooled children. maybe, who are shut up in a box all day with no
exposure to actual working adults. But unschooled kids are LIVING and
LEARNING out in that world of adults. How in teh world would they not
be exposed to adults making livings or what they do at work. What do
*you* do all day?
-=-=-=-==-=-
Most places don't allow you to bring your kids to work, and if they
have no
interest they won't want to see it anyway!
-=-=-=-=-
Do you go to the grocery store? Museums? Zoos? Rec centers? Target?
Walmart? Doctor's office? Dentist? Glass blowing studio?
If I'm not mistaken, there are adults working at ALL those places!
-=-=-=-=-
Since I am feeling a real need of "proof of unschooling", can someone
tell me about adult unschoolers and what they have gone on to do?
-=-=-=-=-=-
My 20 year old son, Cameron, has his entire unschooled life documented
here in the archives. Do a search on this group for "Cameron." You'll
get a zillion hits.
He's leaving in June for a month of backpacking in the Yukon with
National Outdoor Leadership School for college credit. He just finished
a piece of artwork for his friends, Roxy and Fire. He'll be at the New
England Unschooling Conference in May and speaking at the Live and
Learn Unschooling Conference in September.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org