Nikki

Hi. I am Nikki and I mostly read all the posts but haven't said too much.

I've been home schooling most of the time I've had kids and my oldest is
almost 20.

I have 4 kids. Boy almost 20, Boy almost 16, boy 11 and girl 10.

I've used anything from pre-packaged curriculum to unschooling.

I run a full time daycare in my home as well.

We've had structure so much my kids "hate" school.to now all they want to do
is play WOW.



Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to read. My
11 year old refused even to read in his bible class. Yes, he CAN read well
but just doesn't like to. I've worked one on one with my 10 year old and at
night we are reading the Little house series together. I read mostly to her
unless she asks to read some and she really likes these stories.



I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in place for my
11 year old. I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs to be
reading something. He should tell his Sunday school teacher no, he won't
read.



If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day. HELP!



Happily Married...Intentionally parenting....

Thankfully Homeschooling...

and Blessedly running my own Childcare Business!



Check out my blog :)

http://nikkisramblings.blogspot.com/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

--- In [email protected], "Nikki" <vilano6@...> wrote:

> We've had structure so much my kids "hate" school.to now all they
want to do
> is play WOW.

I don't blame them! It's much more fun than school. Have you ever
noticed how much reading is involved in WoW? My 9 year old just gave
it a try and I couldn't believe how much reading was involved. We sat
together and read a good books worth of text in one sitting!

> Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to
read. My
> 11 year old refused even to read in his bible class. Yes, he CAN
read well
> but just doesn't like to. I've worked one on one with my 10 year old
and at
> night we are reading the Little house series together. I read mostly
to her
> unless she asks to read some and she really likes these stories.

My 9 year old said he hated reading to. But he reads all the time.
Yesterday was the first time he ever picked up a book and read it from
cover to cover by himself. It's amazing what happens when you don't
force reading on a child.

Try changing your perspective. Instead of "working with" your 10 year
old, can't you simply enjoy stories together?

> I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in place
for my
> 11 year old.

IMO, incentive programs are a waste of time and children are smart
enough to see through it. It won't make him like reading. In fact,
it most likely have quite the opposite effect.

>I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs to be
> reading something.

Why does he NEED to be reading something? I bet he reads "something"
everyday.

> If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day. HELP!

I don't think you will find help in trying to stop your kids from
gaming all day, but you find help in changing your perspective, and
supporting their needs better.

kel9769

>
> Why does he NEED to be reading something? I bet he reads "something"
> everyday.
>

I have to agree. My 14yo dd doesn't like to read either but I know
she is capable of it so I don't worry. For her she doesn't like the
smell of books. She likes to go to Barnes & Noble and sit in the
comfy chairs and read but doesn't like library books. We have a
subscription to Audible.com and she gets two or three audiobooks a
month. She listens to them on her i-pod every night. She's also on
the computer a lot. As an avid reader this was very hard for me to
understand but I got past it. It is really about us being ok with
them learning in their own way. I'm still working on not needing to
look for the educational equivilant of everything she does and just
enjoy our life together. I'm pretty sure that's a whole other topic
though. : )
Kelly

Nikki

Well, there isn't a lot of reading done in wow for my boy.

He and his dad have almost leveled to 70 together and my husband knew the
quests so my boy just follows his dad.

Let me say this.

Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE would
consider educational and if you sometimes see the chatting that goes on in
general chat, it would be considered almost pg13 or above rating.

I know all about wow cause I've been playing the game since before it was
released cause I was in the beta testing phase of it.

I want him to have a love of classical literature.

I can see him when he has his portfolio check with his teacher to send in
another intent to homeschool:



"Hi. Ok for reading this year, what books have you enjoyed" -Teacher

" Oh my parents don't make me ready books: boy 11

"really, well, where do you get your reading practice then?" Teacher

"I play world of warcraft for 7 hours a day and 7 days a week. Sometimes
more on the weekends. Does that cover my daily reading requirement?"...



Happily Married...Intentionally parenting....

Thankfully Homeschooling...

and Blessedly running my own Childcare Business!



Check out my blog :)

http://nikkisramblings.blogspot.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of swissarmy_wife
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: lurker but love the list



--- In unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "Nikki" <vilano6@...> wrote:

> We've had structure so much my kids "hate" school.to now all they
want to do
> is play WOW.

I don't blame them! It's much more fun than school. Have you ever
noticed how much reading is involved in WoW? My 9 year old just gave
it a try and I couldn't believe how much reading was involved. We sat
together and read a good books worth of text in one sitting!

> Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to
read. My
> 11 year old refused even to read in his bible class. Yes, he CAN
read well
> but just doesn't like to. I've worked one on one with my 10 year old
and at
> night we are reading the Little house series together. I read mostly
to her
> unless she asks to read some and she really likes these stories.

My 9 year old said he hated reading to. But he reads all the time.
Yesterday was the first time he ever picked up a book and read it from
cover to cover by himself. It's amazing what happens when you don't
force reading on a child.

Try changing your perspective. Instead of "working with" your 10 year
old, can't you simply enjoy stories together?

> I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in place
for my
> 11 year old.

IMO, incentive programs are a waste of time and children are smart
enough to see through it. It won't make him like reading. In fact,
it most likely have quite the opposite effect.

>I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs to be
> reading something.

Why does he NEED to be reading something? I bet he reads "something"
everyday.

> If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day. HELP!

I don't think you will find help in trying to stop your kids from
gaming all day, but you find help in changing your perspective, and
supporting their needs better.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MrsStranahan

Hi Nikki,

Speaking of reading .. how much have you read about unschooling?

Have you read this - http://sandradodd.com/control

or this -- http://sandradodd.com/reading

this might help, too - http://sandradodd.com/teaching/

and here -- http://sandradodd.com/videogames

Does he want to have a love of classical literature? Does he even have
an interest in it? Have you strewed anything relating to the things
you want him to love?

He might be interested in reading gaming magazines.

Lauren

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Nikki <vilano6@...> wrote:

> Well, there isn't a lot of reading done in wow for my boy.
>
> He and his dad have almost leveled to 70 together and my husband knew the
> quests so my boy just follows his dad.
>
> Let me say this.
>
> Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE would
> consider educational and if you sometimes see the chatting that goes on in
> general chat, it would be considered almost pg13 or above rating.
>
> I know all about wow cause I've been playing the game since before it was
> released cause I was in the beta testing phase of it.
>
> I want him to have a love of classical literature.
>
> I can see him when he has his portfolio check with his teacher to send in
> another intent to homeschool:
>
> "Hi. Ok for reading this year, what books have you enjoyed" -Teacher
>
> " Oh my parents don't make me ready books: boy 11
>
> "really, well, where do you get your reading practice then?" Teacher
>
> "I play world of warcraft for 7 hours a day and 7 days a week. Sometimes
> more on the weekends. Does that cover my daily reading requirement?"...
>
>
> Happily Married...Intentionally parenting....
>
> Thankfully Homeschooling...
>
> and Blessedly running my own Childcare Business!
>
> Check out my blog :)
>
> http://nikkisramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of swissarmy_wife
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 9:15 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: lurker but love the list
>
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com, "Nikki" <vilano6@...> wrote:
>
> > We've had structure so much my kids "hate" school.to now all they
> want to do
> > is play WOW.
>
> I don't blame them! It's much more fun than school. Have you ever
> noticed how much reading is involved in WoW? My 9 year old just gave
> it a try and I couldn't believe how much reading was involved. We sat
> together and read a good books worth of text in one sitting!
>
> > Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to
> read. My
> > 11 year old refused even to read in his bible class. Yes, he CAN
> read well
> > but just doesn't like to. I've worked one on one with my 10 year old
> and at
> > night we are reading the Little house series together. I read mostly
> to her
> > unless she asks to read some and she really likes these stories.
>
> My 9 year old said he hated reading to. But he reads all the time.
> Yesterday was the first time he ever picked up a book and read it from
> cover to cover by himself. It's amazing what happens when you don't
> force reading on a child.
>
> Try changing your perspective. Instead of "working with" your 10 year
> old, can't you simply enjoy stories together?
>
> > I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in place
> for my
> > 11 year old.
>
> IMO, incentive programs are a waste of time and children are smart
> enough to see through it. It won't make him like reading. In fact,
> it most likely have quite the opposite effect.
>
> >I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs to be
> > reading something.
>
> Why does he NEED to be reading something? I bet he reads "something"
> everyday.
>
> > If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day. HELP!
>
> I don't think you will find help in trying to stop your kids from
> gaming all day, but you find help in changing your perspective, and
> supporting their needs better.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

swissarmy_wife

--- In [email protected], "Nikki" <vilano6@...> wrote:
>
> Well, there isn't a lot of reading done in wow for my boy.
>
> He and his dad have almost leveled to 70 together and my husband
knew the
> quests so my boy just follows his dad.

Parent child bonding. Way more important then "reading".

> Let me say this.
>
> Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE would
> consider educational and if you sometimes see the chatting that goes
on in
> general chat, it would be considered almost pg13 or above rating.
>
> I know all about wow cause I've been playing the game since before
it was
> released cause I was in the beta testing phase of it.

Um, I bet your wrong about saying ANYONE. Some, actually most of us
here find WOW (and other video games) quite educational. i don't, but
a lot of parents here also play WOW. your not coming into a board of
people who don't know what your talking about.

> I want him to have a love of classical literature.

But what does HE want? Most kids I know don't love classical
literature. Some do. But its a preference not a requirement.

> I can see him when he has his portfolio check with his teacher to
send in another intent to homeschool:

As I'm sure many of us do portfolio's I know that they do not need to
be filled with "schooly stuff" only. I've never done one, maybe
someone else will chime in? We have had teacher assessments though.
There are lots of teachers that are unschool friendly and who can put
our lives in educationalese for us.


> "Hi. Ok for reading this year, what books have you enjoyed" -Teacher
>
> " Oh my parents don't make me ready books: boy 11
>
> "really, well, where do you get your reading practice then?" Teacher
>
> "I play world of warcraft for 7 hours a day and 7 days a week. Sometimes
> more on the weekends. Does that cover my daily reading requirement?"...

Actually it probably would. Your husband and son are no doubt doing
some sort of reading together. That counts. Just because it isn't
printed on paper in a book, and just because he doesn't do it all by
himself, and just because you don't see it, doesn't mean he doesn't do
it and its not reading. That's a little jumbled, but I think you get
my point.

Maybe your confused as to what unschooling is? Or maybe your looking
for help with creating a educationalizing an unschooled life for a
portfolio? Personally, I'm a little confused as to exactly what
you're looking for?

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/2008 7:44:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
vilano6@... writes:

I want him to have a love of classical literature.


_____________


But that can't be forced. At all. Forcing it, or attempting to do so, will
most likely disengage your child. You mentioned that "no one" would think that
him playing WoW for 6 hours would be educational, but I'm struggling to find
out what is NOT educational. The stories I've heard about Wow seem to be
very supportive of delight driven learning...I'm confused about your Unschooling
interests, as it sounds like you are hoping more for school-at-home than
unschooling. Perhaps we don't know you well enough yet to be able to tell...?

more to come, right?

Take care,
Karen



**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christy Mahoney

Would reading a Spongebob BOOK somehow magically be better than
reading on a Spongebob video game?

>
> I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in
place for my
> 11 year old. I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs
to be
> reading something. He should tell his Sunday school teacher no, he
won't
> read.
>
>
>
> If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day.
HELP!
>
>
>
> Happily Married...Intentionally parenting....
>
> Thankfully Homeschooling...
>
> and Blessedly running my own Childcare Business!
>
>
>
> Check out my blog :)
>
> http://nikkisramblings.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 14, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Nikki wrote:

> I want him to have a love of classical literature.


Why? (That's not a snarky question. It's a real one.)

How will he be a better him if he has classical literature in him? I
mean really think about that. Not just theory about how literature is
good for you, but how does it enhance a particular person's life.

I would venture to say that the people who love classic literature
are the ones who think like classic literaturists (if that's a
word ;-) They don't see the world in terms of connections to classic
literature because they've read classic literature. They've read
classic literature because they love it and love to find the
connections between it and life.

It's a school idea that if we force x on kids that they'll get the
benefit of those who have voluntarily taken in x. The most likely
thing to happen is that kids will want to avoid x.

> I want him to have a love of classical literature.

We can't make them love something. But we can make them avoid it.

While I'm not a lover of classical literature, I chose to watch a lot
of movies based on classical literature while in high school. Just
because it intrigued me. Lots of Shakespeare. Jane Austen. Dickens.
Antigone. Oedipus.

The one bit if classical literature that I had a really hard time
watching the kids' version of was Silas Marner because some educator
thought it would be good for me and made me read it in 10th grade.
Blech.

> I want him to have a love of classical literature.

If you want to provide him an opportunity to love literature, make
sure that his encounters with it are enjoyable. Think movies. Think
-- even better -- modern adaptations. Then you can say "This is a
*really* old story that they updated. It was written over 300 years
ago. *Intrigue* him.

*Way* better that he watch "Conscience of the King" episode of
classic Star Trek or Clueless or Forbidden Planet and come away
smiling with a positive feeling that the originals might be something
he'd like to see some day than to sit through something because
someone thinks it's good for him.

(For anyone interested, here's something interesting. Filmed
Shakespeare with a list of adaptations. (Just search "adaptation" on
the page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_on_screen)

> Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE
> would
> consider educational

We do our kids a huge disservice if we take their present behavior
and project it into the future. There's something hugely important
that he's getting out of his playing. You can't make that need go away.

But you can make him feel bad about his need and about himself.

You can limit his time so that the importance of play increases and
he'll want to play more than he is right now (but won't be able to
since he's limited.)

> Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE
> would
> consider educational

In school terms, banging pots isn't education either. Neither is
playing in a sandbox. Neither is coloring. Neither is pretend play.

And yet all are important to those ages. Right now he's learning
loads from WOW. More than you can conceive. It *won't* look like
school. (If you need help translating it into educationese, just ask
and people here can help or point you to things that can help.) But
learning through living doesn't look like school. School is a dried
up, predigested, imitation of life. Life better *not* resemble it! ;-)

It might help to read "Why schools use the methods they do"
http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/academics/whyschoolsdusewhattheydo.html

to help you see why learning from life shouldn't look like school.
(And why school doesn't look like real learning.)

> Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to
> read.

Why do they hate to read?

Because they were made to?

The more you push, the more they'll back off. You can't make them
want to read. But you can further their dislike of reading.

Think about it. Think about something you dislike and someone
hovering over you wanting you to like it, making you try it over and
over, worried that you'll never like it. How would you feel about the
thing? How would you feel about the person hovering over you? Just
because you're certain you're right about reading being important,
that won't change how your kids feel about your worrying and
hovering. It's far more likely to make them back further off than
pull closer.

If you want to give them a chance to recover a like of reading you'll
need to back off completely from wanting them to read. Make all their
encounters with the printed word pleasant and they will begin to heal
from the damage done.

Here's something Scott Noelle wrote as part of his "Daily Groove".
It's a question that a lot of new unschoolers struggle with: when
helping them might not really be helping them but easing our fears.

> THE DAILY GROOVE ~ by Scott Noelle
> www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
>
> :: Helping vs. Co-creation ::
>
> Q: How do you know when it's appropriate
> to offer your child help/assistance?
>
> A: When the offer feels *inspired* rather
> than fear-based.
>
> If you're coming from a perspective that your child is
> helpless, damaged, weak, incompetent, lost, wrong,
> etc., then your "help" will only give power to that
> belief. It won't feel inspired to you, and it won't
> inspire your child to connect with his or her Power.
>
> But if you consciously shift your perspective to one
> in which you see your child as capable of finding his
> or her way, you won't feel like you "should" help, and
> you probably won't offer to help unless asked.
>
> However, you might be *inspired* to get involved in a
> way that doesn't feel like you're a "have" helping a
> "have-not" -- it'll feel more like two souls playing
> together, co-creating purely for the joy of it!
>
> http://dailygroove.net/helping


Joyce

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> For anyone interested, here's something interesting. Filmed
> Shakespeare with a list of adaptations. (Just search "adaptation" on
> the page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_on_screen

A word of caution to my own words! ;-)

The movies and shows should be watched because they're enjoyable, not
because they have Shakespeare in them. If it's not a show or movie
that a child would want to see if it didn't have Shakespeare in it,
then they shouldn't be expected to get a good feeling about
Shakespeare from it any more than being made to watch filmed versions
of one of his plays.

Any tid bits or good feelings they pick up should be a side effect of
watching or doing something they enjoy.

They'll pick up huge amounts of stuff by living a rich life. We can't
plan what they'll absorb so we throw us much as they want us to of
the things we think they might enjoy at them.

Often it helps to think that if we only get a half dozen "Oops, that
wasn't all that enjoyable"s before they start being skeptical when we
say "Hey, let's try this!" then it can help us weed out when we're
trying to foist off something we think would be good for them to
enjoy as opposed to what we think they'll enjoy.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nikki

I'm REALLY having some difficulty here with this.

So, leave EVERYTHING up to him?

If he wants and is interested in nothing but video games, so be it?
I'm concerned that is his only thing he likes to do.



My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his teacher
called on him to read.

What about that?



Happily Married...Intentionally parenting....

Thankfully Homeschooling...

and Blessedly running my own Childcare Business!



Check out my blog :)

http://nikkisramblings.blogspot.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: lurker but love the list




On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> For anyone interested, here's something interesting. Filmed
> Shakespeare with a list of adaptations. (Just search "adaptation" on
> the page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare_on_screen>
.org/wiki/Shakespeare_on_screen

A word of caution to my own words! ;-)

The movies and shows should be watched because they're enjoyable, not
because they have Shakespeare in them. If it's not a show or movie
that a child would want to see if it didn't have Shakespeare in it,
then they shouldn't be expected to get a good feeling about
Shakespeare from it any more than being made to watch filmed versions
of one of his plays.

Any tid bits or good feelings they pick up should be a side effect of
watching or doing something they enjoy.

They'll pick up huge amounts of stuff by living a rich life. We can't
plan what they'll absorb so we throw us much as they want us to of
the things we think they might enjoy at them.

Often it helps to think that if we only get a half dozen "Oops, that
wasn't all that enjoyable"s before they start being skeptical when we
say "Hey, let's try this!" then it can help us weed out when we're
trying to foist off something we think would be good for them to
enjoy as opposed to what we think they'll enjoy.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 14, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Nikki wrote:

> I'm REALLY having some difficulty here with this.
>
> So, leave EVERYTHING up to him?

FIRST, take a breath. What you imagine we're suggesting isn't what
happens with kids who have the freedom to choose.

SECOND, know that we love our kids as much as you love yours. We
don't want to compromise their futures for some wacky theory. We want
them to be able to attend college if they want and hold jobs they love.

THIRD, understand that many of us have older kids and some even
adults who have been unschooling most of their lives. This isn't some
untested theory. We can see the results of what we talk about here.

FOURTH, know that there are many people here who were in the "Are you
people freakin' nuts?!" stage that you're in ;-) The most helpful
thing you can do is assume that what you think will happen is *not*
what will happen. Do ask how we avoid what you fear will happen.
There's years of wisdom here and we've heard most of the fears and we
understand why it seems such and such will happen and why such and
such won't.

If you go here:

http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com

most of your questions will be answered.


>
> If he wants and is interested in nothing but video games, so be it?
> I'm concerned that is his only thing he likes to do.

And at certain points in his life he wanted to do nothing but stare
at the world around him. He got what he needed and moved onto the
next thing he needed.

Do know that loads of people here have had kids who've been in the
hours of video games stage. We've seen what's on the other side and
it's not growing controls from your fingers and plugging directly
into the system so you can play during your sleep :-)

No matter how immersed kids seem right now, they do get their fill
and the desire to play drops. It might take months! My daughter was
fairly well married to cartoons during her preteen years. But she
came out of it and is a vibrant interesting person. In fact she won't
watch enough TV to keep the TiVo cleared off ;-)



> My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his
> teacher
> called on him to read.
>
> What about that?

Tell the teacher he doesn't like to read in front of others.

Be his advocate, the one he knows he can come to for support when
he's having problems with the world.


Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Nikki <vilano6@...> wrote:

> Well, there isn't a lot of reading done in wow for my boy.
>
> He and his dad have almost leveled to 70 together and my husband knew the
> quests so my boy just follows his dad.
>






Wow. I am so sad you are missing out on the Joy and Excitement your son
receives from WoW -- AND to play with his dad, what a cool thing is that!!!
(says the mama who's 9.5 yo WoW-loving ds hasn't had a dad since he was
two!!) You may be missing out on a loving supportive relationship if you
can't embrace what he loves as part and parcel of who-he-is.
I don't play WoW I observe *often* -- I'm learning and I'm just watching,
I'm reading and I'm just watching, I'm figuring things out and I'm *JUST*
watching... because you can't see proof of the connections in your DS brain
doesn't mean they're not there!

> Him playing wow from 4pm until 10:30pm at night is not what ANYONE would
> consider educational and if you sometimes see the chatting that goes on in
> general chat, it would be considered almost pg13 or above rating.
>






*I* would!! (and I know at least 4 other families with whom Hayden plays WoW
daily who would agree!)

>
> I want him to have a love of classical literature.
>




What about what *he* wants?


> I can see him when he has his portfolio check with his teacher to send in
> another intent to homeschool:
>
> "Hi. Ok for reading this year, what books have you enjoyed" -Teacher
>
> " Oh my parents don't make me ready books: boy 11
>
> "really, well, where do you get your reading practice then?" Teacher
>
> "I play world of warcraft for 7 hours a day and 7 days a week. Sometimes
> more on the weekends. Does that cover my daily reading requirement?"...
>
>
>
>


There are state-specific Unschooling lists who could better help *you*
convert his activities into educationese for the state requirements.(your
job, not his, he's busy learning and being a kid!)
There are lots of us out here who have well-rounded, intelligent, sensitive
kids who spend lots of hours doing what they love and sometimes what they
love is hours and days on WoW.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/2008 1:15:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
vilano6@... writes:


So, leave EVERYTHING up to him?
Sure! And you provide options a'plenty :) AND the respect he needs to enjoy
his time.



If he wants and is interested in nothing but video games, so be it?
I'm concerned that is his only thing he likes to do.
He may one day have a lucrative career in game making. Who knows. He loves
it. He LOVES doing something. THAT is pretty cool!





My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his teacher
called on him to read.

What about that?
Was this outloud? I can't reply until I know that part of it.

Karen








**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
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diana jenner

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Nikki <vilano6@...> wrote:

> My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his teacher
> called on him to read.
>
> What about that?
>
>


What about that? Does not reading aloud make him less of a Christ-follower?
WWJD?
Jesus had far more gentle thoughts about children than Churches would have
us believe...
Even his disciples say one must have the eyes of a child to enter heaven,
another place they say that as a child I behaved like a child (and as an
ADULT I put those child-like ways behind me).
My version of Jesus is *always* on the side of the child and *always* in the
perspective of "Whole, Complete & Perfect"
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Nikki <vilano6@...>

We've had structure so much my kids "hate" school.to now all they want
to do
is play WOW.

Here is my problem, my 11 year old and 10 year old say they HATE to
read.

-=-=-=-

That happens all the tome in school when kids are forced to read.

How do you think it happened in your homeschool?

-=-=-=-=-=-

My 11 year old refused even to read in his bible class. Yes, he CAN
read well
but just doesn't like to.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Did his teacher ask him to read? Or order him? If it were a request,
isn't "no" an acceptable answer?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I thought of some kind of incentive program maybe I can put in place
for my
11 year old.

-=-=-=-=-

Well, many parents give gold stars and stickers for reading and take
away WOW. Usually with no luck.

Maybe give stickers and gold stars for playing WOW and take away the
books. Yeah---forbid reading! <g>

-=-=-=-=-

I don't care if it is Sponge Bob he reads. He needs to be
reading something.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Why? Why does he NEED to read? Does he have a job that requires
reading? At 11?

-==-=-=-=-

If left to his own defenses, he would just play games all day. HELP!

-=-=-=-=-

Sandra Dodd has a collection of these statements:
www.sandradodd.co,/ifilet

Maybe playing games is a way to defend himself from all the pressure to
read?




~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Nikki <vilano6@...>


I'm REALLY having some difficulty here with this.

-=-=-=-=-

We know! It's not easy to comprehend. It's even tougher to put into
action!

The good news is that both are possible!

-=-=-=-=-

So, leave EVERYTHING up to him?

If he wants and is interested in nothing but video games, so be it?
I'm concerned that is his only thing he likes to do.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

When I was a child, I wanted to only be with the horses.

My parents were surely worried that I only had that damned horse on my
mind---it was all I wanted to do.

I remember being a tween and teen. I was ONLY happy at the barn.

Luckily, they let me spend a LOT of my time there.

I learned a lot more than they could have ever imagined. My world is SO
much richer because of those horses.

-=-=-=-=-=-

My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his
teacher
called on him to read.

What about that?

-=-=-=-=-

What about that? He's not "obedient"?

Is that your goal? Obedience?



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

Pamela Sorooshian

On Mar 14, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Nikki wrote:

> So, leave EVERYTHING up to him?
>
> If he wants and is interested in nothing but video games, so be it?

Yes and no. So be it for now because that's what he wants right now.
>
> I'm concerned that is his only thing he likes to do.

First - it isn't the "only" thing, so don't exaggerate, even a little.
I know you're exaggerating a bit, because he apparently does at least
go to Sunday School. So he's doing something else.

Second - you don't leave everything up to him - your job is to support
him, help him, encourage him, offer him ideas and things and
experiences and --- the world! But, start right now where he IS -
right now he loves to play video games. Support that with all your
heart - make it possible for him to really play as much as he wants.
Take him food while he's playing. Subscribe to video game magazines.
Buy him new games or upgrades as often as you can. Help find him other
people who like to play the same games. Get him Skype so he can use
voice-over-internet to talk to other players. Find related products -
cd's of video game music, movies based on video games, etc. Whether
you fully feel it or not, ACT like him playing video games is the most
wonderful thing you can imagine him doing. Support support support.
Sit near him in the same room when he's playing - let him TELL you all
about it. Ask questions. Learn enough about it that you can have good
conversations. Oh, look up online comic strips (I don't know names -
my kids show them to me) - they are hysterical, but you often have to
know about video games to get the jokes. Look up information about the
composers of the video game music - what else have they done? You'll
be surprised - maybe share just a bit of what you learn, with your
son, if he's interested. GO to conferences/conventions or other events
that are video game related.

In other words, really truly get INTO this and support it
wholeheartedly. THAT is what unschooling is about. At the same time,
think about your son and what else he is interested in and offer other
kinds of input as well. Do you do interesting things as a family? Go
to the Renaissance Faire, camping, to concerts, museums, exhibits,
theater, bowling, white water rafting, paint-ball playing, sky diving?
Anything? Live a joy-filled life - focus on that and the learning will
happen.

And, if you want to read some very interesting, but highly academic,
discussion of video games, you might read a bit of this blog by a
university professor: <http://grandtextauto.org/>.


>
>
> My son is a Christian but now in class he refused to read when his
> teacher
> called on him to read.

Please please honor his desire not to read out loud in public. That is
anxiety-provoking for many people and coercing it just makes it worse
and worse. Show him you respect him and trust his judgment. If he
doesn't feel comfortable doing it, support that. Tell his teacher that
you prefer that she ask for volunteers and not put anybody on the spot
that way.

When he's in Sunday School, don't you want it to be a warm and
wonderful experience for him? Shouldn't that time be really some of
the most inspiring, life-affirming time of his week? It shouldn't be a
time he dreads or is made to feel bad about himself, should it?

>
>
> What about that?

Rude of his teacher - that's what I think about that.
I taught Sunday School for many years. One reason I taught it was to
be sure that my own kids had really good experiences - especially my
youngest daughter who was a later reader. Sunday school teachers
should be demonstrating the utmost kindness and respect for the
children, not embarrassing them. They should be enticing them with the
sweetness of the lesson and providing a wonderful living example, not
shoving something down their throats, right? Of course, right! <G>

-pam



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