attachment parenting question
Shawn and Kelli Scott
I am not sure if this is ok to ask here or not, so if not, moderators
just delete please. Ok I did not really know that how we have reared
our son all along is concidered attachment parenting, it really is just
what worked for us.....we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us) anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
Kelli
just delete please. Ok I did not really know that how we have reared
our son all along is concidered attachment parenting, it really is just
what worked for us.....we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us) anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
Kelli
Jodi Bezzola
Hi Kelli, I'm not sure about 12 year olds, but this post is from a friend of mine on an AP list I belong to. She has a 5 year old son and a 3 year old daughter. I hope it answers some of your question, it sure answered some of mine I didn't even know I had!
Jodi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five is challenging. But so is two, three, four, six, sixteen--all in
their different ways. Part of the trouble is that our children move
onward and forward through the different ages and stages, while we,
their imperfect parents, have just figured out how to cope with the
preceding one. Is it possible to attachment parent the older child?
Possible, necessary, critical. And here is where the difference
between AP "things we do"--co-sleeping, breastfeeding,
babywearing--and the AP "things we are" plays large. We don't carry
our five year olds, the majority of us don't breastfeed them any more,
we're not necessarily co-sleeping with them. The "do" stuff is gone.
The "be" stuff is all that remains.
And how do we "be" with the older children? I think this is one of the
points at which our paths can diverge quite dramatically. And I don't
know that there is one *right* answer. For what it is worth, based on
my sample of one five year old shepherded through some challenging
stuff to date, this is my experience:
At five, ds's world got larger. We're unschooling, so the massive
change that is five day a week kindergarten wasn't part of it--but
think of what a huge change that is, and how hard it must be sort out,
everything so new--but it was so clear that a five-year-old was so
different from a four-year-old. And absolutely, we butted heads
because while he had moved on, I was still mothering a four-year-old.
A huge breakthrough for me was to make this world larger--ride his
bike on (safe!) streets, cross the street on his own, go into stores
on his own, play a bigger role in everything. I can't quite remember
all the different changes we did, but they're pretty much
irrelevant--they wouldn't work for your child. But maybe look at what
you can do--talk with her, what would she like to do now that she
couldn't (or wasn't interested) in doing a year or six months ago?
The other thing I always come back when we run into "downs": the only
person whose behaviour I can control is myself. And if I am unhappy
with how my child is acting, the first step is not to look for a way
to change my child, but to look at myself, within myself, and ask
myself what can I do to change how I am reacting and communicating
with my children? What am I doing--reflexively, thoughtlessly--that I
should change. Start with me. When I'm okay, when I'm balanced, when
I'm grounded--well, very often, the problem goes away, because it was
in me in the first place. My children mirror me.
And, if the problem really is in the other--if it is all my dh(5)
being crazy or my ds(3) being whiney--when I'm taking care of myself,
reflecting on my behaviour, and acting from a place within me that's
grounded, well, then I can cope and talk and help them sort through
whatever craziness they are going through at the time without losing it.
I strongly, strongly believe that any punishment--be it a time out, a
withdrawal of privileges, or the most innocuous manufactured
consequence--does not help these situations but serves to drive a
tiny, but ever growing, wedge between the attached parent and child.
The absolutely best thing I've ever read about discipline was in
Gordon Neufeld's Hold On To Your Kids--absolutely aimed at parents of
older children, through to teens. We've talked about this before, but
this is the essence of what I take away from Neufeld's chapter on
"Discipline that Does Not Divide": "Is [whatever action you were going
to take] going to further your connection to your child? Or is it
going to estrange you?"
So what do I do when I kind of want to throttle ds? I work at
re-connecting. I call them re-attachment days. Have a bath together.
Wrestle (I'm not advising it for pregnant mamas :). Go for coffee
(for me) and cookie (for him) at the cafe, just the two of us.
Really focus on him and try to enjoy him. So often, that's what he's
asking for my being obnoxious--really focused, one-on-one attention
from me. Now if I could only ensure I always give it to him so that we
wouldn't go through the head-butting phase before I remember!
What do I do in the moment? That's way harder in practice, no
question. When I'm really frazzled, I leave notes to myself in
conspicuous places with "when ds does x" "do not say/do this"
"say/do this." (Fridge and front door best places. Also, bathroom
door.) And I tell my children what they are--"Those are reminders to
me of how I want to treat you and talk to you, even when what you are
doing makes me very, very angry."
Sometimes, I sing, "I want to holler really loud, but I'm trying
really hard not to, someone help me figure something else to do, I
think I'm going to stand on my head to distract myself..." (This works
really, really well with two and three year olds too, btw.)
Sometimes, I don't catch myself in time and do all the things I don't
want to do: yell, threaten (if there is an "if" and a "then" in a
sentence, it's almost always a threat)... and then I apologize, try to
rewind, move forward.
And always, always, I remind myself that 1) the worst behaviours
usually occur just before huge developmental/emotional milestones,
changes and breakthroughs, 2) my child is acting in the best way he
knows at this moment, and if that way is not acceptable to me, I need
to help him find another one, and 3) I love the little bugger more
than life or the universe, no matter how obnoxious he is. (This is a
good exercise too: after a hard, hard day, sit down and make a list of
all the things you love about your little one. From the shadow her
eyelash make on her cheeks when she sleeps to the way she kisses you
goodnight... everything you can think of.)
And, finally, if I want my children to treat me--and others--with
respect, I must treat them with respect. No matter how angry or tired
I am.
Shawn and Kelli Scott <steviesparents@...> wrote:
I am not sure if this is ok to ask here or not, so if not, moderators
just delete please. Ok I did not really know that how we have reared
our son all along is concidered attachment parenting, it really is just
what worked for us.....we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us) anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
Kelli
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five is challenging. But so is two, three, four, six, sixteen--all in
their different ways. Part of the trouble is that our children move
onward and forward through the different ages and stages, while we,
their imperfect parents, have just figured out how to cope with the
preceding one. Is it possible to attachment parent the older child?
Possible, necessary, critical. And here is where the difference
between AP "things we do"--co-sleeping, breastfeeding,
babywearing--and the AP "things we are" plays large. We don't carry
our five year olds, the majority of us don't breastfeed them any more,
we're not necessarily co-sleeping with them. The "do" stuff is gone.
The "be" stuff is all that remains.
And how do we "be" with the older children? I think this is one of the
points at which our paths can diverge quite dramatically. And I don't
know that there is one *right* answer. For what it is worth, based on
my sample of one five year old shepherded through some challenging
stuff to date, this is my experience:
At five, ds's world got larger. We're unschooling, so the massive
change that is five day a week kindergarten wasn't part of it--but
think of what a huge change that is, and how hard it must be sort out,
everything so new--but it was so clear that a five-year-old was so
different from a four-year-old. And absolutely, we butted heads
because while he had moved on, I was still mothering a four-year-old.
A huge breakthrough for me was to make this world larger--ride his
bike on (safe!) streets, cross the street on his own, go into stores
on his own, play a bigger role in everything. I can't quite remember
all the different changes we did, but they're pretty much
irrelevant--they wouldn't work for your child. But maybe look at what
you can do--talk with her, what would she like to do now that she
couldn't (or wasn't interested) in doing a year or six months ago?
The other thing I always come back when we run into "downs": the only
person whose behaviour I can control is myself. And if I am unhappy
with how my child is acting, the first step is not to look for a way
to change my child, but to look at myself, within myself, and ask
myself what can I do to change how I am reacting and communicating
with my children? What am I doing--reflexively, thoughtlessly--that I
should change. Start with me. When I'm okay, when I'm balanced, when
I'm grounded--well, very often, the problem goes away, because it was
in me in the first place. My children mirror me.
And, if the problem really is in the other--if it is all my dh(5)
being crazy or my ds(3) being whiney--when I'm taking care of myself,
reflecting on my behaviour, and acting from a place within me that's
grounded, well, then I can cope and talk and help them sort through
whatever craziness they are going through at the time without losing it.
I strongly, strongly believe that any punishment--be it a time out, a
withdrawal of privileges, or the most innocuous manufactured
consequence--does not help these situations but serves to drive a
tiny, but ever growing, wedge between the attached parent and child.
The absolutely best thing I've ever read about discipline was in
Gordon Neufeld's Hold On To Your Kids--absolutely aimed at parents of
older children, through to teens. We've talked about this before, but
this is the essence of what I take away from Neufeld's chapter on
"Discipline that Does Not Divide": "Is [whatever action you were going
to take] going to further your connection to your child? Or is it
going to estrange you?"
So what do I do when I kind of want to throttle ds? I work at
re-connecting. I call them re-attachment days. Have a bath together.
Wrestle (I'm not advising it for pregnant mamas :). Go for coffee
(for me) and cookie (for him) at the cafe, just the two of us.
Really focus on him and try to enjoy him. So often, that's what he's
asking for my being obnoxious--really focused, one-on-one attention
from me. Now if I could only ensure I always give it to him so that we
wouldn't go through the head-butting phase before I remember!
What do I do in the moment? That's way harder in practice, no
question. When I'm really frazzled, I leave notes to myself in
conspicuous places with "when ds does x" "do not say/do this"
"say/do this." (Fridge and front door best places. Also, bathroom
door.) And I tell my children what they are--"Those are reminders to
me of how I want to treat you and talk to you, even when what you are
doing makes me very, very angry."
Sometimes, I sing, "I want to holler really loud, but I'm trying
really hard not to, someone help me figure something else to do, I
think I'm going to stand on my head to distract myself..." (This works
really, really well with two and three year olds too, btw.)
Sometimes, I don't catch myself in time and do all the things I don't
want to do: yell, threaten (if there is an "if" and a "then" in a
sentence, it's almost always a threat)... and then I apologize, try to
rewind, move forward.
And always, always, I remind myself that 1) the worst behaviours
usually occur just before huge developmental/emotional milestones,
changes and breakthroughs, 2) my child is acting in the best way he
knows at this moment, and if that way is not acceptable to me, I need
to help him find another one, and 3) I love the little bugger more
than life or the universe, no matter how obnoxious he is. (This is a
good exercise too: after a hard, hard day, sit down and make a list of
all the things you love about your little one. From the shadow her
eyelash make on her cheeks when she sleeps to the way she kisses you
goodnight... everything you can think of.)
And, finally, if I want my children to treat me--and others--with
respect, I must treat them with respect. No matter how angry or tired
I am.
Shawn and Kelli Scott <steviesparents@...> wrote:
I am not sure if this is ok to ask here or not, so if not, moderators
just delete please. Ok I did not really know that how we have reared
our son all along is concidered attachment parenting, it really is just
what worked for us.....we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us) anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
Kelli
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 13, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Shawn and Kelli Scott wrote:
is is:
Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/2v56sf
(Looks like it's out of print, but there are used copies at Amazon. I
hope she's going to revise it and get a new edition out there!)
Joyce
> IA book that isn't specifically about attachment parenting but really
> keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
> children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
> children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
> find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks
> for
> the answers if anyone has any.
is is:
Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by Mira Kirshenbaum
http://tinyurl.com/2v56sf
(Looks like it's out of print, but there are used copies at Amazon. I
hope she's going to revise it and get a new edition out there!)
Joyce
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn and Kelli Scott <steviesparents@...>
we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us)
-=-=-=-=-=
It may work just fine for you. But it's not unschooling. <g>
Let's say you're homeschooling. <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
-=-=-=--
You really didn't ask a question. <g>
My older son left school at the end of sixth grade. He was 13. He's now
20. My younger son is now 12, always unschooled.
Many folks here have older kids--tweens and teens.
What questions do you have?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
From: Shawn and Kelli Scott <steviesparents@...>
we partially unschool too, just not fully (I do
create assignments for him to work on, they are in books he has picked
though....but ya know it works for us)
-=-=-=-=-=
It may work just fine for you. But it's not unschooling. <g>
Let's say you're homeschooling. <g>
-=-=-=-=-=-
anyways, our son is 12.5 and I
keep hearing all of this stuff about attachment parenting younger
children, and babies, but what about us...the ones with older
children. Yes, we have done it all along, but I have not been able to
find any info for parents for the "tween" and "teen" years. Thanks for
the answers if anyone has any.
-=-=-=--
You really didn't ask a question. <g>
My older son left school at the end of sixth grade. He was 13. He's now
20. My younger son is now 12, always unschooled.
Many folks here have older kids--tweens and teens.
What questions do you have?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
Pamela Sorooshian
On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:00 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
teens, it is really the ONLY good book on that topic, as far as I know.
I think "attachment parenting" should very naturally turn into
"relationship parenting" as kids get older.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach by MiraOh NO. That's not good. This is not only the best book about parenting
> Kirshenbaum
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2v56sf
>
> (Looks like it's out of print, but there are used copies at Amazon. I
> hope she's going to revise it and get a new edition out there!)
teens, it is really the ONLY good book on that topic, as far as I know.
I think "attachment parenting" should very naturally turn into
"relationship parenting" as kids get older.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Krisula
>> (Looks like it's out of print, but there are used copies at Amazon. IUh oh Pam, looks like we're ready for a book from *you*.
>> hope she's going to revise it and get a new edition out there!)
>Oh NO. That's not good. This is not only the best book about parenting
>teens, it is really the ONLY good book on that topic, as far as I know.
>I think "attachment parenting" should very naturally turn into
>"relationship parenting" as kids get older.
>-pam
Krisula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cocoandmia
Kelli,
I believe you're in the right place as I believe mindful parenting can
be a continuation, if you will, of AP. I always found it interesting
that sometime during the preschool years even the most devoted AP
started resorting to conventional parenting with arbitrary rules and
limits, rewards and punishments, and most importantly, the loss of
trust. Trust in themselves as parents as well as trust in their
children.
I believe at the core of AP is meeting your baby's needs, and trusting
the instincts inherent in the child/parent relationship to ensure the
best. The same is true as they get older. Only they become more
competent at articulating their needs as they get older, and, of course,
their needs change. But, it's the same.
I remember reading Dr. Sears' Babybook where he encourages parents to
not say no to their babies and toddlers. The example he gave was when a
toddler is a climber. We shouldn't tell them no, we should make it safe
for them to climb. Among the reasons was the fact that saying no isn't
going to keep them from climbing therefore, making it safe for them to
climb was the only logical and responsible thing to do. The same
example can be applied to any age and any set of circumstances. Don't
say no. For one thing, they'll probably do it anyway and will have to
lie to you to do it which damages your relationship. If you support
them and facilitate whatever it is they want to do, while staying true
to all your principles of safety and compassion . . ., you help them on
so many levels with the added bonus that it strengthens your
relationship and makes for peaceful living. Win-win all around:o)
I know it sounds a bit oversimplistic, and I don't even know if this is
what you were looking for, but I hope it helps.
Cristina
I believe you're in the right place as I believe mindful parenting can
be a continuation, if you will, of AP. I always found it interesting
that sometime during the preschool years even the most devoted AP
started resorting to conventional parenting with arbitrary rules and
limits, rewards and punishments, and most importantly, the loss of
trust. Trust in themselves as parents as well as trust in their
children.
I believe at the core of AP is meeting your baby's needs, and trusting
the instincts inherent in the child/parent relationship to ensure the
best. The same is true as they get older. Only they become more
competent at articulating their needs as they get older, and, of course,
their needs change. But, it's the same.
I remember reading Dr. Sears' Babybook where he encourages parents to
not say no to their babies and toddlers. The example he gave was when a
toddler is a climber. We shouldn't tell them no, we should make it safe
for them to climb. Among the reasons was the fact that saying no isn't
going to keep them from climbing therefore, making it safe for them to
climb was the only logical and responsible thing to do. The same
example can be applied to any age and any set of circumstances. Don't
say no. For one thing, they'll probably do it anyway and will have to
lie to you to do it which damages your relationship. If you support
them and facilitate whatever it is they want to do, while staying true
to all your principles of safety and compassion . . ., you help them on
so many levels with the added bonus that it strengthens your
relationship and makes for peaceful living. Win-win all around:o)
I know it sounds a bit oversimplistic, and I don't even know if this is
what you were looking for, but I hope it helps.
Cristina