ecrouchm

Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
unschooling? Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
but reminded me that policies are not law.

Help?!

Melissa Dietrick

Hi, I would be interested in knowing also how others have dealt with the issue of testing.

I can understand totally not having anysort of investment in *how* my child scores...My
concern is rather connected to the fact that my dd5 will have to test period. In Italy the
test will probably not be very schematic...they tend to do "interrogations" and "dictations"
tho in the past 5 years they have moved more towards annual inclass "quiz"s that observe
the childs incoming and outgoing knowlege...
(I know about this as I have older children in school still)

my concern is for easing exam anxiety--

thankyou melissa in italy
mamma of 7
dd5 7y, ds6 4yo, and ds7 2yo always unschooled.
they others in spirit tho not in fact, as I did not knwo that it was actually legal to
homeschool in italy.

--- In [email protected], "ecrouchm" <ecrouchm@...> wrote:
>
> Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
> children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
> unschooling? Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
> but reminded me that policies are not law.
>
> Help?!
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 29, 2008, at 9:22 PM, ecrouchm wrote:


> Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
> but reminded me that policies are not law.

HSLDA is not a reliable source for homeschooling information. They
have a fundamentalist Christian agenda.

Find a local group of unschoolers and see how they handle the
policies in your area. Policies may be similar in other areas, but
you really need the locals who've dealt with the particulars to guide
you.

There are lists of support groups here for Canada:

http://www.nhen.org/support/groups/2searchall.asp?StateName=Not%20in%
20USA

(If for some reason that doesn't work go here:

http://www.nhen.org/support/groups/browse.asp

and choose "Not in USA")

> Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
> children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
> unschooling?

It's just one of the requirements of living where you live.

What goes against the fabric of unschooling is to use a test to judge
whether our children are learning right. While your district may
judge your child based on tests, that doesn't mean you need to. You
just need to follow the letter of the law so you can continue
unschooling your kids.

If you do indeed need to test, try reading here:

http://sandradodd.com/testing/tests

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~
HSLDA is not a reliable source for homeschooling information. They
have a fundamentalist Christian agenda.~~


Exactly. In my experience, HSLDA and groups they support tend to push
heavily for testing. They LOVE having test scores to show homeschooled
kids test higher than schooled peers.

In FL I was actively discouraged from looking into an umbrella school.
"It isn't accredited" or "They can't get into college" were common
phrases flung about to keep parents from avoiding the tests or
portfolio reviews. Lots of scare tactics because they love, love, love
those damn test scores. Sheesh.

None of my children have ever taken a test of any kind, up until this
last year. The first to take a test was my oldest (18) who attended
his girlfriend's political science class and took the test just for fun.;)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Erin Crouchman

Thanks SO much, Ren! We are new at this and finding our way :) You are the first to offer this information and, being a secular family, this bit changes a great deal for us.



Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
~~
HSLDA is not a reliable source for homeschooling information. They
have a fundamentalist Christian agenda.~~

Exactly. In my experience, HSLDA and groups they support tend to push
heavily for testing. They LOVE having test scores to show homeschooled
kids test higher than schooled peers.

In FL I was actively discouraged from looking into an umbrella school.
"It isn't accredited" or "They can't get into college" were common
phrases flung about to keep parents from avoiding the tests or
portfolio reviews. Lots of scare tactics because they love, love, love
those damn test scores. Sheesh.

None of my children have ever taken a test of any kind, up until this
last year. The first to take a test was my oldest (18) who attended
his girlfriend's political science class and took the test just for fun.;)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






---------------------------------
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

~~ In Italy the test will probably not be very schematic...they tend
to do "interrogations" and "dictations" ~~

What is the testing situation there? Does it have to be given by
someone else? Here, in NC, we are required to test. Not to pass the
test, just to give it and have the results on file. I've always
administered the test myself. And by administer, I mean I give the
test by my rules, no one else's: I don't set a timer, I help, we do
the questions together if they want. (shh. don't tell anybody that
last one) There's no text anxiety, 'cause it's just a piece of paper
to fill out. Of course, the official recommendation is to have someone
outside your family give the test, with it being timed, with no
resources. And I ask you - when else is that the case? When is someone
completely alone, with no resources except what they remember? Testing
is bizarre. Well, sure - a surgeon, I wouldn't really want her in the
operating room clicking on google - but that's at *such* a different
level than most folks operate in, in their daily lives. (clever use of
operate - didja catch that?)

OK, sorry - back to the question. We are also not required to test
until they're required to register as a homeschooler, at age 7. 5 is
young! So - my question - what are the legal requirements (not
recommendations) where you live? Maybe we can see how to work within
those parameters.

peace,
Caren
http://openheartedlife.blogspot.com/

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/29/2008 6:41:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
ecrouchm@... writes:

Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
unschooling? Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
but reminded me that policies are not law.

Help?!


Just wanted to say HELLO and send you a big, huge
(((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))). Glad you found your way here, lol! (All, a few of this new
member's mutual friends have encouraged her, ahem, to join in, lol) I'm hoping
there are some Canadians here, or at least a few that can help you out, Hon.

Welcome!

Karen
(PS - there are 2-3 "K" Karens and at least 1 "C" Caren here - this is ME,
lol)



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

What province do you live in? Each province's guidelines vary, but you
could check
http://www.flora.org/homeschool-ca/achbe/index.html

And, as Joyce suggested, check with unschoolers in your area to see
what they do.

We unschooled in B.C. until we moved to WA state. There was no testing
requirement or oversight in B.C., just registration with a school of
your choice (public or independent) each year.

Robin B.

On Feb 29, 2008, at 6:22 PM, ecrouchm wrote:

> Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
> children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
> unschooling? Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
> but reminded me that policies are not law.
>
> Help?!
>

Jodi Bezzola

There is a great unschooling group in Canada. If you're interested in joining, and you post this question there (and say where you're from), there will be helpful responses.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling_Canada/

Jodi

ecrouchm <ecrouchm@...> wrote:
Our school board says that annual testing is required of unschooled
children, but does this not go against the very fabric of
unschooling? Canadian HSLDA says that school boards vary in policy,
but reminded me that policies are not law.

Help?!






---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 1, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Ren Allen wrote:

> Lots of scare tactics because they love, love, love
> those damn test scores.

And the reason they love tests is because they want as little
government intrusion into their lives as possible. The idea is that
if they can show through tests that there isn't anything questionable
to look into, there won't be a need for the government to get intrusive.

Which is why unschoolers make HSLDA very nervous! We're living our
lives in a way that challenges the government to prove that our
children aren't learning. ;-) (My end of year report does not look
like a list of subjects learned. It looks like a bunch of activities
divided up by subject.)

Which is why HSLDA won't represent unschoolers. And why they won't
give information that might draw a questioning eye from the government.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa Dietrick

Thankyou Caren, for responding to my post...
you asked
> What is the testing situation there? Does it have to be given by
> someone else?

What I have been told by other homeschoolers is that testing is not
required by law unless returning into the public school
system...however if a principle decides to want testing annually, he
could make things difficult... though Ive no way of know if this
actually has happened., nor in what way.

Unfortunately here in italy it is a very unused schooling option, much
less unschooling! The only forum that deals with homeschooling is a
Christian (7th day adventists) one and their attitude is very much
like the one described int the Re:Testing in the schoolboard
thread...they want the government out of their lives as much as
possible so they do annual testing.

> Does it have to be given by someone else?

For returning into the school system it is given by the school of acceptance.
for the annual testing it seems to be also done by the school in the
area...tho as I say this is all rather fuzzy, law wise, it is NOt done
so they just ad lib, is my guess! So I am wondering how I could
approach this, in a knowlegeable non aggressive way...Id like to *not*
test if this is possible....and if dd must test, then Id like to do it
at home, at least.




Here, in NC, we are required to test. Not to pass the
> test, just to give it and have the results on file. I've always
> administered the test myself. And by administer, I mean I give the
> test by my rules, no one else's: I don't set a timer, I help, we do
> the questions together if they want. (shh. don't tell anybody that
> last one) There's no text anxiety, 'cause it's just a piece of paper
> to fill out.

Of course this would be ideal, if I had to test. However, italy does
not use standardized tests yet. If they did, she probably wouldnt be
so scared either, she likes workbookish type questions and
answers...mainly because she thinks they are funny (she wonders how
they think up such stupid questions)...

However it will most likely be the usual stuff a dictation, a
comprehension for reading, some math all with the teachers there (whom
she has a real fear of...)

Id like to manage this somehow to turn it into a non issue--of course
the best hope is dialogue with the principle...which I am due to do
this week---

<<And I ask you - when else is that the case? When is someone
> completely alone, with no resources except what they remember? Testing
> is bizarre. Well, sure - a surgeon, I wouldn't really want her in the
> operating room clicking on google - but that's at *such* a different
> level than most folks operate in, in their daily lives. (clever use of
> operate - didja catch that?)

lol, yes! and it is so true. especially absurd for a 7 or 8 year old.

>
> OK, sorry - back to the question. We are also not required to test
> until they're required to register as a homeschooler, at age 7.
So - my question - what are the legal requirements (not
> recommendations) where you live? Maybe we can see how to work within
> those parameters.



I hope ive been as clear as I can be, given the very unclear circumstances!
thank you and Im looking forward to your reply (ies)...
melissa
in italy
mamma di 7
lucia 20.5yr, lidia 17yr, matteo 14yr, raffaele 10yr, elena shanti
7.75yr, giacomo leo 4.75yr and gioele 2.25y

http://www.attachmentparenting.eu
http://www.larimeloom.etsy.com
http://www.flauto.tk

Debra Rossing

>Well, sure - a surgeon, I wouldn't really want her in the operating
room clicking on google -
Actually, more and more they are actually using Internet connections
even in surgery - that way surgeons in remote/rural areas can deal with
urgent situations without having to hope they can get to the nearest big
city hospital soon enough. They connect via "meeting" type software
where the remote surgeon can see and hear what is happening and provide
instruction and guidance to the surgeon on the scene.

Sure, I wouldn't want the telephone operator madly googling to find
something that seemed to match 'close enough' to do surgery but an
already trained surgeon who is not randomly searching but is actively
connecting to another skilled surgeon, not so big a problem. For that
matter, most surgeons are not totally alone in the operating room with
just what they remember - they've got a whole surgical team (other
surgeons, nurses, technicians) who are skilled at what they do and can
offer insights based on their experience as well.

Deb


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RLR

It's me again with the latest bane of my life. If I figure this out, I'm
thinking I'll be done bothering anyone with questions on this much flogged
topic, LOL!

OK, given a bunch of words and their definitions, does anyone know of a game
I can make up?
Or is there a website where I can plug in my list of words/definitions and
viola, a crossword or quiz or bingo sheets appear.or am I imagining
something that's too far fetched??

Thanks in advance,
Rima





Vocabulary Game <crossposted>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 6, 2008, at 7:19 PM, RLR wrote:

> OK, given a bunch of words and their definitions, does anyone know
> of a game
> I can make up?

Why? Are the kids asking for something like this?

Memorizing definitions, even in a fun way, isn't how people learn
words. We build up definitions slowly over time by encountering words
in several contexts.

(And, really, that applies to everything. We build up a feel for what
everything means and refine it over time. We come up with theories,
test them against real life, refine the theories when the don't quite
work.)

I've dabbled in learning Japanese over the years. By listening to
sentences repeated over and over I can spit them back but 90% of it's
just rote. The two words I've really gotten a feel for are
"sumimasen" (excuse me) which I've heard on Heroes and in several
movies. That word jumps out from a jumble for me. By seeing how and
when it's used, I'm building up a feeling of it's meaning piece by
piece. (What I mean is, though it can be translated as "excuse me",
it isn't always used in the same contexts English speakers would use
"excuse me".)

The other word is "ohayo". On the tapes I hear "konnichiwa" and
"ohio" in the same context: in the car at various times of the day.
What nailed ohayo and gave it true meaning was hosting a Japanese
student for 3 weeks who would great a crowd of friends each morning
as we dropped them off for class with "Ohayo!" and they'd all respond
"Ohayo!"

When my daughter was 11 we were reading a book and the narrator
proudly announced that the town clock frequently told the right time.
At 11 she'd certainly heard the word frequently before. And she had
built up a feeling for its meaning. But in that context she needed a
precise definition to get the joke. So I told her. There, the
definition helped because 1) she already had a good handle on the
word and how it was used and 2) she wanted the definition for a
specific purpose.

Just some things to turn over about how people learn.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jane doe

--- RLR <rlr@...> wrote:

> Or is there a website where I can plug in my list of
> words/definitions and
> viola, a crossword

We make crosswords... There are a number of free
online versions (just look for "free crossword
generator") but we broke down and bought a program
which is a world better for our uses than any of the
free ones we tried. It was a while ago but I recall it
wasn't a lot of money and works much, much better.
Have fun!
ELISA

We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone

We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ