Karen Swanay

I know Homeschoolers have an organization that monitors laws that
impact homeschooling...do unschoolers have a similar thing? Or are
unschoolers under the umbrella of homeschooling for legal purposes?

Karen

swissarmy_wife

I don't believe that unschoolers have any different laws in any state
if that is what you mean.

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> I know Homeschoolers have an organization that monitors laws that
> impact homeschooling...do unschoolers have a similar thing? Or are
> unschoolers under the umbrella of homeschooling for legal purposes?
>
> Karen
>

Cameron Parham

I am also very interested in this question. Anyone aware of a legal org that supports unschooling? Cameron

----- Original Message ----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:14:30 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling PAC?

I know Homeschoolers have an organization that monitors laws that
impact homeschooling. ..do unschoolers have a similar thing? Or are
unschoolers under the umbrella of homeschooling for legal purposes?

Karen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife"
<heatherbean@...> wrote:
>
> I don't believe that unschoolers have any different laws in any
state
> if that is what you mean.
>
> --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> <luvbullbreeds@> wrote:
> >
> > I know Homeschoolers have an organization that monitors laws that
> > impact homeschooling...do unschoolers have a similar thing? Or
are
> > unschoolers under the umbrella of homeschooling for legal
purposes?
> >
> > Karen
> >
>
Someone just posted on our state list saying the HSDL.. I think that
is it. It is the homeschool defense league..covering homeschoolers
will defend unschoolers if they keep a portfolio and can prove what
their kids are learning... shrug

Kathleen

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>


I know Homeschoolers have an organization that monitors laws that
impact homeschooling...do unschoolers have a similar thing? Or are
unschoolers under the umbrella of homeschooling for legal purposes?

-=-=-=-=-=

All unschoolers are homeschoolers, but all homeschoolers are not
unschoolers.

Unschooling falls under homeschooling laws. Some states are more
difficult to unschool AND homeschool in (NY & PA are awful, but
manageable).

NHELD monitors homeschooling laws.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org





________________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>

>
Someone just posted on our state list saying the HSDL.. I think that
is it. It is the homeschool defense league..covering homeschoolers
will defend unschoolers if they keep a portfolio and can prove what
their kids are learning... shrug


-=-=-=-

Huh-uh! H$LDA is NOT supportive of unschooling. They don't "cover"
anyone. At first glance, they appear to be a kind of "insurance"
against legal action against homeschooling.

They aren't. The cases they choose to pursue are only those that will
help further their agenda.

Please read up on them! They do NOT serve your best interests!

NHELD is a better choice for legal info.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
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mallemarokin

I joined HSLDA when I was contacted by a Quebec school board letting
me know that they were sending my case to child services. This was
after no contact from them after my formal withdrawal in which I
followed the guidelines they had set for withdrawal from school. I
had to think hard about joining the HSLDA because quite a bit of their
philosophy doesn't jibe with mine but I was very worried and wanted
someone that appeared to have muscle on my side. There was another
Quebec legal group that didn't respond to me so they were what I was
left with. I have to say that I have not been disappointed. The
liaison has been very reassuring calling me with updates whenever
something has changed or they've been contacted by the school board.
They've handled all the letters and contact with the board since that
initial letter I've received.

I just wanted to point out that although they are not supportive of
unschooling and are a Christian organization, they have been helpful
to me so far. I'll check out the NHELD. I had not heard of them.

Jess

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...>
>
> >
> Someone just posted on our state list saying the HSDL.. I think that
> is it. It is the homeschool defense league..covering homeschoolers
> will defend unschoolers if they keep a portfolio and can prove what
> their kids are learning... shrug
>
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Huh-uh! H$LDA is NOT supportive of unschooling. They don't "cover"
> anyone. At first glance, they appear to be a kind of "insurance"
> against legal action against homeschooling.
>
> They aren't. The cases they choose to pursue are only those that will
> help further their agenda.
>
> Please read up on them! They do NOT serve your best interests!
>
> NHELD is a better choice for legal info.
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
>

Kathleen Gehrke

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> > -=-=-=-
>
> Huh-uh! H$LDA is NOT supportive of unschooling. They don't "cover"
> anyone. At first glance, they appear to be a kind of "insurance"
> against legal action against homeschooling.
>
> They aren't. The cases they choose to pursue are only those that will
> help further their agenda.
>
> Please read up on them! They do NOT serve your best interests!
>
> NHELD is a better choice for legal info.


Thanks I will pass that on to the woman who was discussing it on our
state group.

Kathleen

Debra Rossing

H$LDA will NOT defend unschoolers in most cases (I've had long email
correspondence with them a time or two). And, if you look at the
enrollment form, you are signing and agreeing to:

By signing this application, we agree:
* To exercise diligence in teaching our children in a responsible way.
* To use a clearly organized program of education to instruct our
children.
* To keep records of each child's educational progress.

(taken directly from their pdf enrollment form)

IMO that just doesn't square with unschooling - "a clearly organized
program", uh yeah right. Keeping records is not required legally (my own
beef with them is that they "suggest strongly" that folks here follow
the "Suggested Guidelines" of the State Dept of Ed which are not law and
not required).

Deb


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

While this is interesting to learn...I think I wasn't clear with my
question so let me try again.

Is there some group of folks, I guess an organized group, who are
either watching laws and law makers or are actively working to reverse
laws we have on the books now, to make unschooling easier or at least
keep the politicians from taking away what little right we have to
educate our children as we see fit?

Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides
to. Some states are easier than that and others are way harder. So I
was just wondering if there was a push on to reverse the antiquated
idea of school as we know it or a group actively promoting unschooling
as a legitimate and legal way of "educating" a child?

TIA
Karen

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...>


Is there some group of folks, I guess an organized group, who are
either watching laws and law makers or are actively working to reverse
laws we have on the books now, to make unschooling easier or at least
keep the politicians from taking away what little right we have to
educate our children as we see fit?

-=-=-=-

Because homeschooling (schooling too!) is not a federal issue, each
state has jurisdiction (some are county/city regulated though). So
most, if not all, states have some kind of regulatory "group" which
keeps an eye on the laws in its state.

NHELD and H$LDA are the two national groups, but H$LDA has a
right-wing, reconstructionist, political agenda that should be
considered.

There's a yahoogroup---maybe someone knows the name off-hand----maybe
google "homeschooling law yahoogroup"? <g> I have a friend who was
*really* active on that group a few years ago. It may be NHELD's group??

-=-=-=-=-=-

Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides
to. Some states are easier than that and others are way harder. So I
was just wondering if there was a push on to reverse the antiquated
idea of school as we know it or a group actively promoting unschooling
as a legitimate and legal way of "educating" a child?

-=-=-=-=-

I think FL can be a lot easier than that. Like an umbrella school? I
know a bunch of FL unschoolers who don't do what all you've described.
Any FL unschoolers want to chime in?

I know there was a group here in SC that worked HARD to push the laws
to where we are now. They are always watch-dogging and sending us
updates whenever there's a new bill working its way through--both
positive and negative for homeschoolers. Often they have rallies at the
State House and send out petitions. But it's important to understand
*exactly* what you're signing/supporting 'cause some of the time, it's
the Christian Right School-at-Homers (doh!) wanting *more* regulations,
disguised as "good for homeschooling."

But as for a national *unschooling* watchdog group---no, not that I
know of. Homeschooling is legal in all 50 states, so technically
UNschooling is also legal in all 50 states.

I do what *I* can to get the word out about unschooling as a good
option (the best! <g>), and I hope that as it becomes more and more
popular/common, it will just kind of smoothly float into mainstream.
It's gotten lots and lots of press recently---and GOOD press! Parents
are getting more and more disillusioned with the school system and are
looking for options. Unschooling is looking better and better!

I used to say that I wish there were a stock option on unschooling:
homeschooling has grown sooo much these last ten years, and within
homeschooling, unschooling is ZIPPING along! <g> If I could have bought
stock when we first started, I would be one RICH bitch by now!



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org






________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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cocoandmia

I'm in Florida as well, and I've decided, for simplicity's sake, to
enroll in an umbrella school. In Florida we have several choices: 1.
never file your intent with your district, and basically have truant
kids. I'm not comfortable with this, but know several RU who are. My
fear is that if they ever catch up with me and see that I don't
vaccinate, had a homebirth, . . . and am a RU, they might get child
services involved and start an ugly mess; 2. you can file your intent
to homeschool and be required to keep records, get yearly evaluations .
. . this is the only choice most homeschoolers in Florida are aware of
and therefore follow; or 3. you can enroll your kids in a private
school. Umbrella schools are private schools. Here's a link to one
with a lot of info.:

http://www.freewebs.com/floridaunschoolers/establishanumbrella.htm
<http://www.freewebs.com/floridaunschoolers/establishanumbrella.htm>

It is legal to unschool in Florida. However, the legal group that
defends Florida homeschoolers through the FPEA will only defend if you
follow a curriculum. Thus, if you run into a problem during an
audit/investigation (whatever you want to call it) you'll have to find
your own representation.

My reasons for using an umbrella school are in large part due to my
jaded view of the government and their employees, especially when it
comes to education. In addition, I find it time consuming, and quite
frankly just don't want, to translate our lives into pigeon-holes of
"learning" . If I had to, I would. For now, I'm happy to be able to
enroll in an umbrella school and avoid the system's involvement in how
my children are learning.

Cristina, Coco(6), Mia (17 mon)


--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> While this is interesting to learn...I think I wasn't clear with my
> question so let me try again.
>
> Is there some group of folks, I guess an organized group, who are
> either watching laws and law makers or are actively working to reverse
> laws we have on the books now, to make unschooling easier or at least
> keep the politicians from taking away what little right we have to
> educate our children as we see fit?
>
> Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
> record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
> deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides
> to. Some states are easier than that and others are way harder. So I
> was just wondering if there was a push on to reverse the antiquated
> idea of school as we know it or a group actively promoting unschooling
> as a legitimate and legal way of "educating" a child?
>
> TIA
> Karen
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:16 AM, Karen Swanay wrote:

> Is there some group of folks, I guess an organized group, who are
> either watching laws and law makers or are actively working to reverse
> laws we have on the books now, to make unschooling easier or at least
> keep the politicians from taking away what little right we have to
> educate our children as we see fit?

No. Homeschooling laws are state-by-state.

>
>
> Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
> record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
> deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides
> to.

I'm sure you'll hear from some Florida unschoolers that this is a
really not necessary if you want to peacefully unschool. You can sign
up with an umbrella school (600 school) and happily unschool free of
any government ties at all.


> Some states are easier than that and others are way harder. So I
> was just wondering if there was a push on to reverse the antiquated
> idea of school as we know it or a group actively promoting unschooling
> as a legitimate and legal way of "educating" a child?

If you mean pushing to change the law to specifically support
unschooling - the answer is no. First, that would be a state-specific
endeavor. Second, it would largely be a waste of time given the
current mood in this society to in the opposite direction - toward
more standards and more testing.

If you mean helping people learn about and understand unschooling, you
are talking to people who have devoted large amounts of their personal
time to that endeavor through establishing unschooling groups, email
lists, websites, publications, blogs, conferences, and so on.

NHEN does have a media presence and does a considerable amount of work
informing journalists and, to some degree, legislators and other
public officials about the diversity of homeschooling styles,
including unschooling. Our approach is to slowly get the idea across
to the public that learning can happen in a wide variety of different
ways and that homeschooling is not only the stereotype of mom sitting
the kids down at the kitchen table to do their workbooks. We've had
success in that there has been a very clear shift in news stories -
many more articles about unschooling and a lot fewer articles that
make ignorant assumptions about homeschooling. NHEN doesn't usually
get directly quoted in the articles, but we're almost always consulted
by journalists and we provide lots of background information and we
help journalists find real (and diverse) homeschoolers/unschoolers to
interview.

Many states have active state organizations that monitor proposed
legislation and respond to it when they deem it appropriate.


A more direct involvement at the state level by a national
organization would not be welcomed by the inclusive state
organizations. The Christian organizations usually welcome HSLDA's
involvement, but HSLDA has caused lots of problems over the years by
getting involved at the state level.


-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

Interesting. Thanks =)

Karen

On Feb 20, 2008 1:06 PM, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> Many states have active state organizations that monitor proposed
> legislation and respond to it when they deem it appropriate.

> -pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/20/2008 2:07:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
> record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
> deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides
> to.



Florida is actually quite an easy state in which to be an unschooler.
Records can be as simple as attendance if you are registered with an umbrella
school. Even if you are registered under the county with the public schools, it
is very easy to do a portfolio evaluation with an evaluator that is familiar
with unschooling. There is no submitting to random testing or entrance into
your home or delivering your child anywhere if you understand the
homeschooling laws.

Please contact me off list if you'd like more information about umbrella
schools or unschooling in general in Florida.

Gail



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

>Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State decides to.

Not necessarily - in FL you can use an umbrella (sometimes called a 600
school) and not deal with the school district at all, legally. There are
some that are about as restrictive as the districts but others simply
request that you email a monthly attendance log and that's it.

And you NEVER have to let ANYONE into your home without a bona fide
warrant. That doesn't need any additional laws, that's a Constitutional
protection.

Deb


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

It sounds like Florida may be similar to North Carolina. What
exactly is an umbrella school and how does it work?

Alysia


--- In [email protected], "cocoandmia" <cristina-
pertierra@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm in Florida as well, and I've decided, for simplicity's sake, to
> enroll in an umbrella school. In Florida we have several
choices: 1.
> never file your intent with your district, and basically have
truant
> kids. I'm not comfortable with this, but know several RU who
are. My
> fear is that if they ever catch up with me and see that I don't
> vaccinate, had a homebirth, . . . and am a RU, they might get child
> services involved and start an ugly mess; 2. you can file your
intent
> to homeschool and be required to keep records, get yearly
evaluations .
> . . this is the only choice most homeschoolers in Florida are
aware of
> and therefore follow; or 3. you can enroll your kids in a private
> school. Umbrella schools are private schools. Here's a link to
one
> with a lot of info.:
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/floridaunschoolers/establishanumbrella.htm
>
<http://www.freewebs.com/floridaunschoolers/establishanumbrella.htm>
>
> It is legal to unschool in Florida. However, the legal group that
> defends Florida homeschoolers through the FPEA will only defend if
you
> follow a curriculum. Thus, if you run into a problem during an
> audit/investigation (whatever you want to call it) you'll have to
find
> your own representation.
>
> My reasons for using an umbrella school are in large part due to my
> jaded view of the government and their employees, especially when
it
> comes to education. In addition, I find it time consuming, and
quite
> frankly just don't want, to translate our lives into pigeon-holes
of
> "learning" . If I had to, I would. For now, I'm happy to be able
to
> enroll in an umbrella school and avoid the system's involvement in
how
> my children are learning.
>
> Cristina, Coco(6), Mia (17 mon)
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> <luvbullbreeds@> wrote:
> >
> > While this is interesting to learn...I think I wasn't clear with
my
> > question so let me try again.
> >
> > Is there some group of folks, I guess an organized group, who are
> > either watching laws and law makers or are actively working to
reverse
> > laws we have on the books now, to make unschooling easier or at
least
> > keep the politicians from taking away what little right we have
to
> > educate our children as we see fit?
> >
> > Because here in Florida when you "homeschool" you have to keep a
> > record, submit to random testing and entrance into your home or
> > deliver your child to a school for "assessment" if the State
decides
> > to. Some states are easier than that and others are way harder.
So I
> > was just wondering if there was a push on to reverse the
antiquated
> > idea of school as we know it or a group actively promoting
unschooling
> > as a legitimate and legal way of "educating" a child?
> >
> > TIA
> > Karen
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Debra Rossing

In NC, there's no "other option" visible as there is in FL which makes
it different. All of NC's paperwork (attendance, test results) are
"maintained" not turned in to anyone unless someone requests them. In
FL, it looks (at a glance) that the evaluation (portfolio, test, or
other) gets sent in to the district IF you are homeschooling through
that option. Florida's umbrella schools are set up under Florida law. I
don't see that NC has an option for homeschooling as a private school.

Then again, what do I know? I'm up here in CT where there's no such
entity as a 'homeschooling' law at all. Parents are to educate their
kids, how is up to them.

Deb


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keetry

The wording of things can be confusing to me because they seem to
mean different things in different areas. In NC you have to register
yourself as either a private or religious school when you want to
homeschool even if you are only homeschooling your own children. I
can't remember all the specifics now because I haven't looked at the
law itself. The law does say that you have to meet all the same
requirements as a public school except for the safety requirements.
It reads as if you have to maintain lots of records and be ready for
an inspection any time. I've been told, though, that that's not how
it actually works. I don't have to deal with it yet since my oldest
homeschooler is only 4 and they don't require anything until 7 years
of age. I'm just trying to gather information. Additionally, we'll
most likely only be in this state for about a year after my oldest
homeschoolers reaches the age that we have to do anything.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> In NC, there's no "other option" visible as there is in FL which
makes
> it different. All of NC's paperwork (attendance, test results) are
> "maintained" not turned in to anyone unless someone requests them.
In
> FL, it looks (at a glance) that the evaluation (portfolio, test, or
> other) gets sent in to the district IF you are homeschooling
through
> that option. Florida's umbrella schools are set up under Florida
law. I
> don't see that NC has an option for homeschooling as a private
school.
>
> Then again, what do I know? I'm up here in CT where there's no such
> entity as a 'homeschooling' law at all. Parents are to educate
their
> kids, how is up to them.
>
> Deb
>
>
>
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