Maisha Khalfani

Khalid (4 yrs, soon to be 5) doesn't stop when someone asks him to. For
instance: Safiya (9) will be sitting on the loveseat reading, and Khalid
will come over and start dancing in her face, waving his arms and hands.
She'll ask him to stop, and he'll keep going. She asks again, and he
doesn't stop. I then step in and remind him that stop means stop. His
response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I talk, I guess) about how
someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone is doing something to
bother them that they may not like, etc, etc. Nonetheless...it still
continues.



Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just continue to talk with him
about it.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

Hi, Maisha,

I'm guessing that talking is not helping here because I think Khalid
has a need that he is trying to meet, and what you're telling him
isn't helping him meet his need. Rather than talking and trying to
make him change, I think it'd be good to do a little detective work
to try to understand what need he's trying his best to meet by
dancing in his sister's face, and then help him find a better way to
meet that need. The need could be, for example, to engage you or
Safiya or anybody.

If you're going to talk about this with him, too, consider doing it
at a time when he's not trying to get attention. While it is good
for him to understand that stop means stop, I wouldn't expect him to
be able to honor that yet. He's really all about getting his needs
met right now, and that's really as it should be. He really just
needs your loving guidance to find better ways to do it. And, it'd
be best to anticipate that need before he feels like he has to get in
other people's faces.

~Marji

At 19:51 2/8/2008, you wrote:
>Khalid (4 yrs, soon to be 5) doesn't stop when someone asks him
>to....Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just continue to
>talk with him about it.








~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joyfullyparenting.com
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

in our house we say "stop means stop" for everyone. I have a little
3 yr old who does not stop with "no" in fact to her no means laugh
and do it more so I needed to physically move her but while I moved
her I would tickle her and ask if she needed attention- but that
whoever was not in the mood.

Julie


--- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani"
<maitai373@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Khalid (4 yrs, soon to be 5) doesn't stop when someone asks him
to. For
> instance: Safiya (9) will be sitting on the loveseat reading, and
Khalid
> will come over and start dancing in her face, waving his arms and
hands.
> She'll ask him to stop, and he'll keep going. She asks again, and
he
> doesn't stop. I then step in and remind him that stop means
stop. His
> response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I talk, I guess)
about how
> someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone is doing
something to
> bother them that they may not like, etc, etc. Nonetheless...it
still
> continues.
>
>
>
> Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just continue to
talk with him
> about it.
>
>
>
> Be at peace,
>
> Maisha
>
> http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> "The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the
same level of
> thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Chris and Kelli Bailey

> in our house we say "stop means stop" for everyone.
> I have a little
> 3 yr old who does not stop with "no" in fact to her
> no means laugh
> and do it more so I needed to physically move her
> but while I moved
> her I would tickle her and ask if she needed
> attention- but that
> whoever was not in the mood.



i don't post often but i wanted to say this works for
us also.

the problem i have with my 3.5 yr old is that she
becomes unpredictably overcome with impulses (normal)
which hurt others (not normal). these don't seem to
occur in the heat of an argument with her brothers or
anything. there's usually no anger or frustration
involved. i can't seem to find a pattern.

the difficulty is that often i cannot catch her before
she does it. for instance, to give a real example, a
couple of days ago she and i were curled up on the
floor on a pillow watching a dvd. her 9 yr old brother
was lying near us also watching. she seemed to be
enjoying it, there was no sign of unrest, but suddenly
her shoe-clad foot kicked her brother hard in the
head. it was very quick, very sudden. i comforted the
victim who was, understandably angry and hurt. i
wasn't quite sure what to say to her (and honestly i
was trying to figure it out while talking to her
brother and making sure he was okay). i ended up
getting authoritarian on her and saying something like
"we don't hurt each other. your brother doesn't want
to lay by you anymore because you hurt him."

about 5 minutes later i was changing the 4 mo old
baby's diaper on the floor. 3 yr old tosses a large
wooden block and i say "oo, be careful!" with a smile
and meeting her eyes, and she immediately hums another
one and hits her baby sis in the face. i immediately
picked up the baby and moved her to a safer place.

*sigh* i feel often as though i am failing at keeping
the other kids safe from my daughter. she and my 6 yr
old son do a lot of concensual wrestling-type play,
and we tickle and laugh alot, but i don't know why she
feels compelled to hit and throw. it is understandable
in a younger toddler, but after modelling and talking
so much, i feel that i don't know what else to do. i
honestly don't know if i should just ride it out,
hoping it's a behavior she won't always feel the need
for, but her brothers get angry and my husband and i
don't like it much either!

any advice for helping her, keeping the others safe,
and words to use when she does these things?

kelli





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Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 8, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:

> His
> response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I talk, I guess)
> about how
> someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone is doing
> something to
> bother them that they may not like, etc, etc. Nonetheless...it still
> continues.

How about "I know, unfortunately stop means stop. Can you help me get
a snack?" If he protests about stopping you can sympathize and say "I
wish you sister enjoyed it as much as you do," and other things along
that vein.

All your talk is moving the focus from what he wants to what his
sister wants. It's like he says "I want a glass of milk" and you say
"Your sister is having breakfast". What his sister wants is pretty
much a non sequitur to him ;-)

If he does need more, focus on him, like "It's my job to make sure
everyone feels safe. If you say stop and people don't I need to swoop
in and make sure they stop so you feel safe."

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], Chris and Kelli Bailey
<cdbailey_99@...> wrote:
>
>>
> the problem i have with my 3.5 yr old is that she
> becomes unpredictably overcome with impulses (normal)
> which hurt others (not normal). these don't seem to
> occur in the heat of an argument with her brothers or
> anything. there's usually no anger or frustration
> involved. i can't seem to find a pattern.

first of all this is so my 3 yr old and she has been VERY physical
since she could move- she would come up to you can bite you or hit
you as hard as she could or throw things at you for no reason-

my 5 yr old will be laying on the couch and 3 yr old will walk over
and hit her on the head-- for no apparent reason--

BUT

I think for her it is a sensory thing- it does not hurt HER and she
sees no reason why it is bugging you-

I think she really wants to touch she just does it really rough and
unexpectedly- so when she stood on the stool and expected me to
catch her even if I was not there I told her she needs to
say "ready" and if I do not say "ready" back then she can not jump

or when walking past someone I say touchy "gentle" you can touch but
gentle and she does do it and will come over to me and say I touched
sister gentle

sounds like you have the same sort of kid- expect that they will be
rough and try to always step in -- after a while she is better but
will still unexpectedly throw or hit but way less often


julie

>
> the difficulty is that often i cannot catch her before
> she does it. for instance, to give a real example, a
> couple of days ago she and i were curled up on the
> floor on a pillow watching a dvd. her 9 yr old brother
> was lying near us also watching. she seemed to be
> enjoying it, there was no sign of unrest, but suddenly
> her shoe-clad foot kicked her brother hard in the
> head. it was very quick, very sudden.

Maisha Khalfani

I will try that. Some days are really difficult where he is clearly trying
to get everyone's attention in the worst ways! I do my best, but I'm one
person (dh is not really on board yet) and sometimes I feel stretched a bit.
On top of that, dh says that Khalid acts one way with me, and totally
different (read obedient) with him.



Today we went to Ikea to buy a desk. I thought dh should have gone alone,
but he likes *me* to go everywhere with him, which means we all go (no one
to watch the kids like that). So..we go to Ikea. He's frustrated 'cause
the kids want to buy something and it takes them forever. I'm working with
them, explaining our budget and such. Everyone picks something out that's
within budget (yeah!). Safiya wants something she can't have and is moping.
I respect that. I talk with her. We talk about wanting what we want *right
now*. Normally I would try and make her feel better, but I didn't. She
needed her feelings so I just tried to understand and empathize. Dh was not
amused by her sadness. Khalid..ah Khalid..he was getting tired...very
tired. Khidar (2) had picked out a bat stuffed animal. Khalid had picked
out a shark. Now Khalid wanted the bat because he wanted something that
flies. He was crying, screaming. Some people were looking, of course. Dh
was embarrassed - concerned about what others thought about him - not what
Khalid thought about him, but what strangers thought about him. I
understood; I've been there. I hugged Khalid, I listened to him. I let him
scream. To try and stop him or make him feel better would not have worked,
I think.



Eventually Khalid did stop crying and he fell asleep on the way home. Dh
vowed never again to take us with him and I could just go out with "my kids"
alone. I had to work very hard at staying calm. I know that those are just
words (although I usually do take the kids out solo). I tried to understand
that from his perspective parenting is about controlling your kids, and to
him bad parents don't have control. We still have lots to work on.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joyce Fetteroll
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 6:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] saying stop




On Feb 8, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:

> His
> response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I talk, I guess)
> about how
> someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone is doing
> something to
> bother them that they may not like, etc, etc. Nonetheless...it still
> continues.

How about "I know, unfortunately stop means stop. Can you help me get
a snack?" If he protests about stopping you can sympathize and say "I
wish you sister enjoyed it as much as you do," and other things along
that vein.

All your talk is moving the focus from what he wants to what his
sister wants. It's like he says "I want a glass of milk" and you say
"Your sister is having breakfast". What his sister wants is pretty
much a non sequitur to him ;-)

If he does need more, focus on him, like "It's my job to make sure
everyone feels safe. If you say stop and people don't I need to swoop
in and make sure they stop so you feel safe."

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maisha Khalfani

<<I think for her it is a sensory thing>>



I'm thinking this is the case for Khalid as well. He will just walk up to
one of us (his father excluded) and start dancing around and grabbing our
clothes. One of his favorite things to do is to come behind Khidar and grab
his cheeks - at which point Khidar starts shrieking.



Here's another issue that we've run into from time to time (and I may have
asked it before). The radio in the car. Someone wants it on - someone
wants it off. I have no idea what to do in that situation.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Turnbow

on the issue of the radio, we got our 4yr. old an inexpensive mp3 so she could listen to her music if her teen brothers wanted to listen to theirs. she's gotten more mature now and has come to understand that she can listen to her cd's in the car when it's just the 2 of us, but when her brothers are with us she tells them that they can listen to their music.(her idea) she actually has come to like their music (currently Prince and The Police!)

Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote: <<I think for her it is a sensory thing>>

I'm thinking this is the case for Khalid as well. He will just walk up to
one of us (his father excluded) and start dancing around and grabbing our
clothes. One of his favorite things to do is to come behind Khidar and grab
his cheeks - at which point Khidar starts shrieking.

Here's another issue that we've run into from time to time (and I may have
asked it before). The radio in the car. Someone wants it on - someone
wants it off. I have no idea what to do in that situation.

Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/

"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nance Confer

Sounds like DH has hit on a plan that will work for him. He was the one insisting that you all had to go in the first place and now realizes that isn't going to work. Maybe not for the reasons you would like but. . . :)

Nance



Eventually Khalid did stop crying and he fell asleep on the way home. Dh
vowed never again to take us with him and I could just go out with "my kids"
alone. I had to work very hard at staying calm. I know that those are just
words (although I usually do take the kids out solo). I tried to understand
that from his perspective parenting is about controlling your kids, and to
him bad parents don't have control. We still have lots to work on.

Be at peace,

Maisha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mara

Hi,
my 3.5 y.o. can get intense like this too. Of†en it is
that he just needs some attention or wants to move
around and if he is bothering his older brother it
often means he does not know what to do with himself.
A suggestion like, hey, if you want to dance around
why don't you come in the other room with me, we'll
put on some music and dance. Your sis†er would like to
have some quiet time now.
Also what has really worked well with asking my boys
to do something (I got this from the book 'hold on to
your kids') is to firs† have a positive interaction,
like, 'you have so much energy and like to dance, hm?"
then, when his attention is on you, you can then
possibly suggest something else to do.
Saying stop does not work with my 3.5 y.o. Suggesting
what else to do often does. Of course we do have
situations where he wants to do this one thing badly,
but can't (like wreck his brothers lego castle that he
spend hours building) and I do prevent him from doing
it by protecting the castle. When he cries I
acknowledge that he is sad, but that his brother (who
is crying because he does not want it wrecked but does
not know how to stop him) has spend a lot of time
building and does not want it destroyed even if he
were playing the bad guys. I might suggest other
things, like building something his bad guys can wreck
etc. or just wait until he calms down. After the
initial sadness, he usually calms down and then we go
on playing.
In the past I have often tried to just say stop, don't
do this (like break the eggs in the store) and it has
not worked too well. What worked better was to have
him break a lot of eggs at home (like baking together,
or just breaking for the fun of it) and he has not
done it again in the store. Of course I would try to
stop him in the store, but when I wasn't looking for a
second he would run over to the eggs so fast we almost
broke one every time I went shopping. He was much
younger then, but the same goes for a lot of things.
The more he realized that I want to help him have the
experiences and never make him feel that he is
'wrong', the more likely he is now to understand if
someone does not want him to do something.
Hope this helps some,
good luck,
Mara

--- Maisha Khalfani <maitai373@...> wrote:

>
>
> Khalid (4 yrs, soon to be 5) doesn't stop when
> someone asks him to. For
> instance: Safiya (9) will be sitting on the loveseat
> reading, and Khalid
> will come over and start dancing in her face, waving
> his arms and hands.
> She'll ask him to stop, and he'll keep going. She
> asks again, and he
> doesn't stop. I then step in and remind him that
> stop means stop. His
> response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I
> talk, I guess) about how
> someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone
> is doing something to
> bother them that they may not like, etc, etc.
> Nonetheless...it still
> continues.
>
>
>
> Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just
> continue to talk with him
> about it.
>
>
>
> Be at peace,
>
> Maisha
>
> http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> "The significant problems that we face cannot be
> solved by the same level of
> thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert
> Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




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Maisha Khalfani

<<on the issue of the radio, we got our 4yr. old an inexpensive mp3 so she
could listen to her music if her teen brothers wanted to listen to theirs>>



I was thinking about that, but then I was concerned about sitting in a car
with everyone "plugged in" and not together. But I do think we need to look
for something like that. In my case I would have to come up with four
because as soon as I got one for Safiya, everyone would chime in about
wanting one too :-)



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/

www.greatday.com



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani"
<maitai373@...> wrote:
>
>>
> I was thinking about that, but then I was concerned about sitting in
a car
> with everyone "plugged in" and not together. But I do think we need
to look
> for something like that. In my case I would have to come up with four
> because as soon as I got one for Safiya, everyone would chime in about
> wanting one too :-)
>
>


see I used to think that we needed to eat dinner at the table as a
family and somehow we would have this nice connecting conversation and
it would be so nice- BUT

in reality- dinner was so stressful that we were not connecting in a
positive way anyway

so now we eat where ever we want to- very peaceful- sometime we talk
while we on eating and on computer or watching tv.

connecting in the car is not really connecting if everyone is grumpy

Julie

Maisha Khalfani

<<connecting in the car is not really connecting if everyone is grumpy

Julie>>



You are absolutely right! I'll look into some mp3 players for the kids.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/

www.greatday.com



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: wisdomalways5 <wisdom1133@...>

connecting in the car is not really connecting if everyone is grumpy

-=-=-=-=-=-

Connecting in the car is not really connecting if ANYONE is grumpy! <G>



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

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keetry

Hmmm...that's an interesting point about dad finding a solution that
works for him whether mom is comfortable with it or not. I'm sort of
dealing with that right now. My husband just came home from a year
long deployment. His being here is interrupting our flow. His
solution to that is to sort of remove himself from the family.

For example, we all share the same bed, baby, preschooler, mom and
dad. While dad was gone the rest of us got used to sleeping until
around 9 am. Dad gets up early, 6-7 am, which then wakes everyone
else. The rest of us are then grumpy all day because we didn't get
enough sleep. Dad's solution to this problem is for him to sleep in
another room. I don't like this idea because I think it detaches him
even further from the rest of family at a time when I think it's
very important for him to reattach himself. I don't really have any
other solution except to give it time for everyone to adjust to the
new schedule.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "Nance Confer"
<marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like DH has hit on a plan that will work for him. He was
the one insisting that you all had to go in the first place and now
realizes that isn't going to work. Maybe not for the reasons you
would like but. . . :)
>
> Nance
>

Debra Rossing

I agree with the others - talk is not what will work right now with a
4/5 yr old. My DS is 9 1/2 and he'll still get in my face (or DH's)
sometimes. Particularly irritating behaviors include repeatedly bumping
us, poking, making loud gibberish sounds directly in our faces,
deliberately moving in front of us as we're trying to go from place to
place (including physically blocking the way by holding onto
doorframes), etc.

We've uncovered several "triggers" to this type stuff:

1- lack of food, specifically protein, make impulse control harder for
him - he told us flat out when he was about 5 "my brain won't let me
stop" even though he knew what he was doing was irritating and we had
asked him to stop. So, we make sure he gets protein regularly throughout
the day, snackwise
2- tiredness sometimes because his motor is revving too fast, finding
some way (picking a movie, TV program, story, relaxed type board game)
to slow down and catch up to himself helps
3 - feeling rushed or pressured about something causes him to dig in
4 - needing focused attention - for instance, sometimes having me
reading a magazine article nearby while he's watching a favorite TV show
is fine. Other times, he needs me to be focusing on what he's focusing
on.
5 - odd as this may sound compared to #3, not going quickly enough - as
in, if we're leaving someplace (even a place he enjoys) those long chit
chatty goodbyes (see you soon, had a nice time, send me the recipe,
yaddayadda) are out - once we say Time to go, we're out of there as
quickly as possible. DH and I have had to learn to do all our winding
down stuff at social events BEFORE we get jackets on - once his jacket
is on, it's time to head out the door
6 - having to "contain" himself in some situations means that he's
likely to have trouble after a bit of time (30 minutes to an hour
depending on circumstance) as bits of "energy" start popping out. For
instance, he can manage about 30 minutes visiting FIL in the hospital
but that's about it (and he's got a bag stuffed with his DS & games,
sketchpad and writing stuff, snacks, water bottle, assorted other items
as he requests so it's not just nothing to do but sit). Hospitals are
places where quieter, restrained behavior is needed (no running,
jumping, yelling, etc) plus they tend to have bright lights, odd smells
and sounds, and a generally stressful atmosphere. All that plays into
the situation. He's fine playing with something we've brought along for
up to 30 minutes. After that, we (DS and I) generally try to take a walk
or do something away from FIL's room (FIL is a bit of a depressing
person to be around anyhow and DS doesn't have a super strong feeling of
connection with him to start with). After about 30 minutes of doing
something else, we'll head back and let DH know it's time to leave and
off we go.

Just some thoughts to maybe jump start some things going in your mind as
to where stuff is coming from and what kinds of stuff might help. It may
be, at first glance, that he's just feeling a bit left out of his
sister's day - perhaps she's moved from a "peer" type playmate to being
a little older and having other interests more now (a natural
progression) and he's not getting as much of her attention as he used to
get. Working together to figure out how to give her her space and at the
same time "fill his cup" where it needs her attention is a discussion
point. And, perhaps, (just guessing) if she was his usual playmate but
isn't as interested anymore, you (mom) will need to take up some of the
slack and/or find other venues for him to develop new ways of getting
that (even though it's not the same as his sister, it might help).

Deb


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Krisula

Mara�s advice is really good. A moving truck is easier to steer than it is
to stop � same with a little child. The steering should be fun. Be as
childlike and in the moment as he is and watch him engage with you. The
older child who is the brunt of the problem might even decide to get into
the act too and then you�ll have everyone laughing and playing instead of
resisting each other. I know this is hard, but try not to resist the idea
in your mind. Just try it when the opportunity presents itself and go with
it and with the ideas that grow in you from there. (Ooh, I think I�m
channeling Scott Noel)



Krisula



>> Hi,
my 3.5 y.o. can get intense like this too. Of�en it is
that he just needs some attention or wants to move
around and if he is bothering his older brother it
often means he does not know what to do with himself.
A suggestion like, hey, if you want to dance around
why don't you come in the other room with me, we'll
put on some music and dance. Your sis�er would like to
have some quiet time now.
Also what has really worked well with asking my boys
to do something (I got this from the book 'hold on to
your kids') is to firs� have a positive interaction,
like, 'you have so much energy and like to dance, hm?"
then, when his attention is on you, you can then
possibly suggest something else to do.>>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

Hi Debra,

I have a son who also has trouble with impulse control. He is 9.5. I
was wondering if I could pick your brain regarding protein and impulse
control.

I'm pretty knowledgeable about diet and behavior and more specifically
the types of issues he has. But I haven't heard this about protein.
When you said this, immediately I wondered if he was getting enough.
I remember many times him saying that EXACT sentence... "my brain
won't let me stop" sometimes he'd even add an "i want to stop but I
can't help it".

Thanks in advance

-Heather

> We've uncovered several "triggers" to this type stuff:
>
> 1- lack of food, specifically protein, make impulse control harder for
> him - he told us flat out when he was about 5 "my brain won't let me
> stop" even though he knew what he was doing was irritating and we had
> asked him to stop. So, we make sure he gets protein regularly throughout
> the day, snackwise

Jodi Bezzola

One of my twin girls is a little like this, and we make smoothies that both girls love using high-quality protein powder. I put them in those rubbermaid juice containers so they can drink them whenever/wherever they want to throughout the day - in the house or out. It just keeps things on an even keel for us because I notice radical behaviour change when they're blood sugar gets too low.
Jodi

swissarmy_wife <heatherbean@...> wrote:
Hi Debra,

I have a son who also has trouble with impulse control. He is 9.5. I
was wondering if I could pick your brain regarding protein and impulse
control.

I'm pretty knowledgeable about diet and behavior and more specifically
the types of issues he has. But I haven't heard this about protein.
When you said this, immediately I wondered if he was getting enough.
I remember many times him saying that EXACT sentence... "my brain
won't let me stop" sometimes he'd even add an "i want to stop but I
can't help it".

Thanks in advance

-Heather

> We've uncovered several "triggers" to this type stuff:
>
> 1- lack of food, specifically protein, make impulse control harder for
> him - he told us flat out when he was about 5 "my brain won't let me
> stop" even though he knew what he was doing was irritating and we had
> asked him to stop. So, we make sure he gets protein regularly throughout
> the day, snackwise






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen Gehrke

I have a sixteen year old that has what mainstream would be considered
severe ADD. He says protien, calcium and flax seed on his hot cereal
really helps him focus.

My 13 year old has always had impulse control issues. Not like ADD, but
quick tempered and sometimes lapse in judgements. He says protien
shakes and a no crap diet really helps him. Sometimes he chooses the
high crap diet and then identifies his inability to feel like he can
make good choices....

Its all about learning what works for each of us.

Kathleen

Pamela Sorooshian

On Feb 10, 2008, at 6:46 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:

> I was thinking about that, but then I was concerned about sitting in
> a car
> with everyone "plugged in" and not together. But I do think we need
> to look
> for something like that. In my case I would have to come up with four
> because as soon as I got one for Safiya, everyone would chime in about
> wanting one too :-)

The more you set things up to allow the possibility of family members
being "apart" - in other words, having control over their own space,
what they listen to, etc., then the more they can choose to be
together. Forced togetherness isn't all that conducive to good
relationships.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

wisdomalways5

my husband was deployed for 10 months during deschooling time and
then the girls who were 2 and 4 were pretty much sleeping with me in
our bed. I was worried about him not liking it and to my surprise he
said let them stay if that is what they want.

He is also a morning person but the only day we all get woke up is
the weekends- ahhhh- I wished he would let me sleep till noon and
take care of the kids but he was lonely- we wanted my company- he
needed me more than I needed more sleep.

So if you all sleep in the same bed he wants everyone to wake up but
if he is sleeping seperate he is ok waking up without you.

Is he resentful of this option or does he seem really ok with it?

If he is really ok with it it may be the best thing- you can always
go cuddle with him when you feel like it and he gets what he wants
and you get what you want which is more sleep

after being gone for 10 months my husband was home a year and is now
back out for a 6 month maybe a year deployment- it is tough to get
them unschooly when the military is so strict but if you let him
deschool sort of from the military he might come a long way.

after he left a month ago the kids started staying up till 1am and
then we would sleep till 10 am- now that our mornings will be his
evenings and nights I may have to get up earlier to talk on webcam.

Julie

--- In [email protected], "keetry" <keetry@...>
wrote:
>
> Hmmm...that's an interesting point about dad finding a solution
that
> works for him whether mom is comfortable with it or not. I'm sort
of
> dealing with that right now. My husband just came home from a year
> long deployment. His being here is interrupting our flow. His
> solution to that is to sort of remove himself from the family.
>
> For example, we all share the same bed, baby, preschooler, mom and
> dad. While dad was gone the rest of us got used to sleeping until
> around 9 am. Dad gets up early, 6-7 am, which then wakes everyone
> else. The rest of us are then grumpy all day because we didn't get
> enough sleep. Dad's solution to this problem is for him to sleep
in
> another room. I don't like this idea because I think it detaches
him
> even further from the rest of family at a time when I think it's
> very important for him to reattach himself. I don't really have
any
> other solution except to give it time for everyone to adjust to
the
> new schedule.
>
> Alysia
>
> --- In [email protected], "Nance Confer"
> <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like DH has hit on a plan that will work for him. He was
> the one insisting that you all had to go in the first place and
now
> realizes that isn't going to work. Maybe not for the reasons you
> would like but. . . :)
> >
> > Nance
> >
>

Mark V Fullerton

Hi Maisha,
Khalid, at 4/5 years old, does seem a bit young to be persuaded by
verbal explanations of why its good to have a "stop when I say stop" rule.
Just as an experiment, sometime when Khalid is playing with Safiya in
a way that Safiya begins to find annoying, then tells him to stop and
he continues, you might say "Let's play a game. Let's say that for the
next minute or so there is no stop rule, and so if Safiya wants to
start tickling you and you ask her to stop, she doesn't have to."
Hopefully with a smile and a twinkle in your eye, Safiya can be
persuaded to play her role in a playful manner and not a retaliatory
one. Even so, getting tickled gets to be pretty annoying pretty fast!
Then to Khalid: "What do think, Khalid - should we bring back the stop
rule now?"

Of course you may just have to accept needing to continue to
intervene. I don't know if you can manage it, but it sounds to me that
if you could give yourself and your dh some private time for a day or
two while the children are perhaps left with a trusted relative, then
you would be able to come back to them feeling refreshed and
recharged, and more able to continue to give in this way.

By the way, I really appreciate your Dalai Lama quote,
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most
difficult period in one's life." ~ Dalai Lama


-- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani"
<maitai373@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Khalid (4 yrs, soon to be 5) doesn't stop when someone asks him to. For
> instance: Safiya (9) will be sitting on the loveseat reading, and Khalid
> will come over and start dancing in her face, waving his arms and hands.
> She'll ask him to stop, and he'll keep going. She asks again, and he
> doesn't stop. I then step in and remind him that stop means stop. His
> response "but I don't want to stop". We talk (or I talk, I guess)
about how
> someone feels frustrated and gets angry if someone is doing something to
> bother them that they may not like, etc, etc. Nonetheless...it still
> continues.
>
>
>
> Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just continue to talk
with him
> about it.
>
>
>
> Be at peace,
>
> Maisha
>
> http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> "The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same
level of
> thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

diana jenner

> Is there anything else I can do? Or should I just continue to talk with
him about it.

Stop means Stop for *everyone*
Modeling this helps. By 4/5 my kids had a great grasp of this and had NO
fear saying it to anyone who bothered them. They would wrest away from my
overly-physically-affectionate parents and emphatically state "STOP means
STOP papa!!!" When the grownup would look at me, I'd raise my eyebrows in a
"well? doesn't it?" kinda way and viola! it stopped.
It has to be shown by the the humans with more life experience. Instead of
the brother/sister role-playing someone else suggested, I'd recommend a
mama/daddy role-playing - daddy teasing mama and mama saying "stop" and
daddy replying, "OH! Stop means Stop, I have to stop right now!"


> I came from a family with prevalent sexual abuse that I really didn't want
to have to talk to my kids about; at the same time, I desperately needed a
way for them to be safe in the world. It's imperative that kids grow up
knowing they have the power to stop unwanted advances (from strangers AND
those they love and trust; whether it's tickling, teasing or molestation of
another sort) and for them to understand another human's right to say stop
and mean it. All kids should know they have the support of their adults in
maintaining control of their bodies and their environment.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keetry

My husband doesn't mind co-sleeping. We've always coslept with our now
4yo. My oldest slept with us sporadically until he was 13yo. He also
doesn't want to wake us up. He tries very hard to sneak out of the
room. The problem is that I'm very sensitive to him not being there. I
can feel the emptiness in the bed even if I don't hear him and there
are two kids between us. Once I'm awake I can't go back to sleep. When
I get up the baby gets up and so on.

I think he's fine with sleeping by himself. Even our 4yo said that
daddy could sleep in his own room and he and the baby could sleep with
me and we weren't even talking about it at the time. I'm the one who
doesn't like it.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "wisdomalways5"
<wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>
> > So if you all sleep in the same bed he wants everyone to wake up
but
> if he is sleeping seperate he is ok waking up without you.
>
> Is he resentful of this option or does he seem really ok with it?
>
> If he is really ok with it it may be the best thing- you can always
> go cuddle with him when you feel like it and he gets what he wants
> and you get what you want which is more sleep
>
> > Julie
>

Maisha Khalfani

<<he told us flat out when he was about 5 "my brain won't let me stop" even
though he knew what he was doing was irritating and we had
asked him to stop.>>



This is definitely Khalid. He'll tell me (as he yells) "I can't stop
yelling!" or "my body can't stop". He's very expressive in how his body
feels. He can tell me what his body feels like in any situation. Yesterday
he told me "my throat hurts; it feels spicy". I figured that he had a sore
throat, and we dealt with it.



I think that's probably a good starting point for us - talking about how his
body feels with certain emotions. That may help us figure out what he needs
and we can do to help him.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/

www.greatday.com



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maisha Khalfani

I really, really like that idea! Gosh - it's sad how non-creative I am!
LOL. We'll see how it works out tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted.



Be at peace,

Maisha

http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/

www.greatday.com



"The significant problems that we face cannot be solved by the same level of
thinking we were at when we created them." ~ Albert Einstein

_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark V Fullerton
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: saying stop



Hi Maisha,
Khalid, at 4/5 years old, does seem a bit young to be persuaded by
verbal explanations of why its good to have a "stop when I say stop" rule.
Just as an experiment, sometime when Khalid is playing with Safiya in
a way that Safiya begins to find annoying, then tells him to stop and
he continues, you might say "Let's play a game. Let's say that for the
next minute or so there is no stop rule, and so if Safiya wants to
start tickling you and you ask her to stop, she doesn't have to."
Hopefully with a smile and a twinkle in your eye, Safiya can be
persuaded to play her role in a playful manner and not a retaliatory
one. Even so, getting tickled gets to be pretty annoying pretty fast!
Then to Khalid: "What do think, Khalid - should we bring back the stop
rule now?"

Of course you may just have to accept needing to continue to
intervene. I don't know if you can manage it, but it sounds to me that
if you could give yourself and your dh some private time for a day or
two while the children are perhaps left with a trusted relative, then
you would be able to come back to them feeling refreshed and
recharged, and more able to continue to give in this way.

By the way, I really appreciate your Dalai Lama quote,
"The period of greatest gain in knowledge and experience is the most
difficult period in one's life." ~ Dalai Lama






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Lee Clark

Hey:

I don't know if this will add anything of value to the discussion about
"stop means stop." But I was reminded of a counseling technique that Adler
used sometimes to remedy people who say they can't help but gamble, drink,
lie, hit, or whatever. He called this "antisuggestion" and he'd suggest his
clients to do whatever it is MORE or HARDER, instead of trying not to do it.
This would usually result in the client reacting in two ways: Stopping,
because the client did not want to lie more, hurt others more, gamble
harder, whatever, or, by the client doing more or worse on purpose, the
client realizes whatever it is can be controlled and that the client can
help it.

"I can't stop yelling!" It might be wild, but might it be useful to suggest
that he yell more, louder, etc.?

Again, I don't know if it is any good, but the discussion just reminded me
of this concept and I thought I'd just report it.

John


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

--- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani"
<maitai373@...> wrote:
>
> <<he told us flat out when he was about 5 "my brain won't let me
stop" even
> though he knew what he was doing was irritating and we had
> asked him to stop.>>
>


I've discovered that with Jalen (the only one with any impulse control
challenges at this point) trying to stop the behavior only makes
things worse. Redirecting can be helpful, but going with the flow of
what he needs is even better.

Sometimes we'll just step in (dh is good at this) and have an arm
wrestling contest or ask him to push against our hands. Anything
physical. When he wants to hit or throw, I quickly hold up a big
pillow or some object that is satisfying to hit (rice bags work great)
and tell him "hit it HARD". Going along with that flow helps him more
than saying "stop".

It takes some creativity in heated moments, but sometimes you can
think of an outlet that honors the need and also protects the other
child(ren).

Ren
learninginfreedom.com