Re: unschoolingbasic Help with graduating an unschooler
A Voss Dolce
What if your teenager does not do even a fraction of the things you list - which is very exhaustive, thorough, thoughtful, and meaningful? Serious question.
Trying desperately to understand how to unschool a teen,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trying desperately to understand how to unschool a teen,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
If you could tell us what your teen *does* do, we could help.
We've had many a parent say her child does nothing only to find out
it's an exhaustive list---it just took some prying...and a little
thought. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
What if your teenager does not do even a fraction of the things you
list - which
is very exhaustive, thorough, thoughtful, and meaningful? Serious
question.
Trying desperately to understand how to unschool a teen,
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
We've had many a parent say her child does nothing only to find out
it's an exhaustive list---it just took some prying...and a little
thought. <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
What if your teenager does not do even a fraction of the things you
list - which
is very exhaustive, thorough, thoughtful, and meaningful? Serious
question.
Trying desperately to understand how to unschool a teen,
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Chris Hathaway
Hi Amy,
One thing I noticed is the "the things you list" ...Your high-
schooler may have a better experience if he/she can make their own
list and you can do the "educationese" translating?
Chris
--- In [email protected], "A Voss Dolce" <avd@...>
wrote:
meaningful? Serious question.
One thing I noticed is the "the things you list" ...Your high-
schooler may have a better experience if he/she can make their own
list and you can do the "educationese" translating?
Chris
--- In [email protected], "A Voss Dolce" <avd@...>
wrote:
>list - which is very exhaustive, thorough, thoughtful, and
> What if your teenager does not do even a fraction of the things you
meaningful? Serious question.
>
> Trying desperately to understand how to unschool a teen,
>
> Amy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Debra Rossing
First thing is to not be desperate. In order to do that, you'll need to
stop thinking there's a "deadline" that they have to get X, Y, and Z
done by. There is NO deadline. Your teen's life will, hopefully, be a
long progression of learning and doing and Being. Re-read the end of
Karen's post about the things she's done and learned through her life -
a rather wide range of stuff and NONE of it was stuff that she prepared
for in school. When she wanted to go from one thing to another, she
learned what she needed to to make *her* goals happen. It's way cool!
What IS your teen doing? Maybe we could help better if we knew what it
is your teen is doing, loves to do, etc. You have to get the 'school'
glasses off to see what is happening because it won't always look like
schooled math or even like the readily visible kinds of things like
doubling recipes or playing obviously numerically related games.
Deb
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stop thinking there's a "deadline" that they have to get X, Y, and Z
done by. There is NO deadline. Your teen's life will, hopefully, be a
long progression of learning and doing and Being. Re-read the end of
Karen's post about the things she's done and learned through her life -
a rather wide range of stuff and NONE of it was stuff that she prepared
for in school. When she wanted to go from one thing to another, she
learned what she needed to to make *her* goals happen. It's way cool!
What IS your teen doing? Maybe we could help better if we knew what it
is your teen is doing, loves to do, etc. You have to get the 'school'
glasses off to see what is happening because it won't always look like
schooled math or even like the readily visible kinds of things like
doubling recipes or playing obviously numerically related games.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A Voss Dolce
I wanted to thank Kelly for sharing her plan for her son; it is a model that any parent would want for their children. I too want to strive for the kind of goals listed...
My son was in public school until 5th grade when he became too ill to go to school. We then tried a year of Waldorf education (unsuccessfully) and after that began more traditional homeschooling with a curriculum.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has built skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing ( many hours per day). He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW land. In the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild leader . His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often troubleshoots for them.
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and often comes to Mom's rescue. He has built computer systems for friends, and his friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for him! All he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer which he then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP computer programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be interesting to read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his own forge. After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in Feb). At various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture making, and poultry farming among other things. He watches the science and history channel frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan. But most of his time currently is invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex husband. I need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the school subjects.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son was in public school until 5th grade when he became too ill to go to school. We then tried a year of Waldorf education (unsuccessfully) and after that began more traditional homeschooling with a curriculum.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has built skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing ( many hours per day). He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW land. In the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild leader . His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often troubleshoots for them.
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and often comes to Mom's rescue. He has built computer systems for friends, and his friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for him! All he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer which he then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP computer programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be interesting to read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his own forge. After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in Feb). At various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture making, and poultry farming among other things. He watches the science and history channel frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan. But most of his time currently is invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex husband. I need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the school subjects.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 6:19 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: unschoolingbasic Help with graduating
an unschooler
I wanted to thank Kelly for sharing her plan for her son; it is a model
that any
parent would want for their children. I too want to strive for the
kind of
goals listed...
My son was in public school until 5th grade when he became too ill to
go to
school. We then tried a year of Waldorf education (unsuccessfully) and
after
that began more traditional homeschooling with a curriculum.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has
built
skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing (
many
hours per day). He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW
land. In
the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild
leader .
His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often
troubleshoots for them.
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and
often
comes to Mom's rescue. He has built computer systems for friends, and
his
friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for
him! All
he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer
which he
then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP
computer
programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be
interesting to
read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his
own forge.
After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in
beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in
Feb). At
various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture
making, and
poultry farming among other things. He watches the science and history
channel
frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan. But most of his time
currently is
invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex
husband. I
need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the
school
subjects.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
-----Original Message-----
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 6:19 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: unschoolingbasic Help with graduating
an unschooler
I wanted to thank Kelly for sharing her plan for her son; it is a model
that any
parent would want for their children. I too want to strive for the
kind of
goals listed...
My son was in public school until 5th grade when he became too ill to
go to
school. We then tried a year of Waldorf education (unsuccessfully) and
after
that began more traditional homeschooling with a curriculum.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has
built
skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing (
many
hours per day). He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW
land. In
the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild
leader .
His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often
troubleshoots for them.
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and
often
comes to Mom's rescue. He has built computer systems for friends, and
his
friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for
him! All
he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer
which he
then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP
computer
programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be
interesting to
read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his
own forge.
After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in
beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in
Feb). At
various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture
making, and
poultry farming among other things. He watches the science and history
channel
frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan. But most of his time
currently is
invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex
husband. I
need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the
school
subjects.
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
I wanted to thank Kelly for sharing her plan for her son; it is a model
that any
parent would want for their children. I too want to strive for the
kind of
goals listed...
-=-=-=-=-
You're welcome.
But it's not so much the *goals*---it's the very loose *plan* that
"allows" us to go with the flow of his interests. It's our curriculum
(adapted from Carol Narigon's), but nowhere does it dictate what, when,
and how we will cover. It reassures doubters, but it also falls way
short of committing us to anything specific
-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has
built
skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing (
many
hours per day).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Typing
Spelling
Communication Skills
Role Playing
Problem Solving
Navigation Skills
Strategy
History
Mythology
Costuming
-=-=-=-=-=-
He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW land. In
the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild
leader .
His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often
troubleshoots for them.
-=-=-=-=-
Leadership Skills
Web Design
Politics
Advising Skills
-=-=-=-==-
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and
often
comes to Mom's rescue.
-=-=-=-
I can't say enough how important the love of problem-solving is!!! It's
so unfortunate how many schooled children learn to hate to solve
problems!!!
-=-=-=-=-
He has built computer systems for friends, and his
friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for
him! All
he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer
which he
then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP
computer
programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Advanced Computer Skills: building, writing, and explaining
Math
-=-=-=-=-=-
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be
interesting to
read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Information Gathering
Literature
-=-=-=-=-=-
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his
own forge.
-=-=-=-=-
Metallurgy
Chemistry
Physics
Blacksmithing
History
-=-=-=-=-=-
After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in
beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in Feb).
-=-=-=-=-
History
Current Events
Biology
Botany
Sociology
Physics
Animal Husbandry
(You'll love the bees, by the way! I have two hives!)
-=-=-=-=-
At various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture
making, and
poultry farming among other things.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Botany
Life Sciences
Physics
Biology
Animal Husbandry
-=-=-=-=-=-
He watches the science and history channel
frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Science
History
Art
-=-=-=-=-=-
But most of his time currently is
invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Please read _Don't Bother Me, Mom! I'm Learning_ to get a good dose of
what's being learned through video and computer gaming.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex
husband. I
need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the
school
subjects.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Your child is old enough to understand that he may need to "play the
game" of testing to satisfy his father's need for testing---IF it comes
to that.
But I think if you can just start translating what he's doing into a
portfolio of learning---a narrative is especially reassuring---the ex
will be satisfied with a weekly/monthly description of his learning.
One thing I didn't see you list was Discussion. The majority of my
boys' learning is through conversations with me, their dad, friends,
and each other. When they actually ask a question, they are "in the
moment" of discovery: they WANT that knowledge, so they're very
receptive to learning. That discussion/conversation time is a HUGE part
of our learning here. I write down things we discuss, and you'd be
surprised at how many things are learned in small two-three minute
bites of time throughout the day. Commercials are a big source of
discussion. Sit-coms too. Movies (and Tivo!) allow for a lot of
learning.
My biggest suggestion is to dedicate a week to write down everything
you witness (and things he will come to you about later). Write it all
down as if you HAD to document. Soon you will see how much he does do.
It will also allow you to eventually write down "WOW" in your notebook
as shorthand for *ALL* the things that he's learning while playing (I
do this with "Bionicles"---which denotes building (math & physics),
role-playing (drama), storytelling (composition), design (art),
cooperation (with a friend) (social skills), and buying new Bionicles
(economics).)
So---starting when he wakes up, write down everything he does today.
Quit looking at it as "just play" and start seeing teh actual learning
that is happening. You'll be amazed at what all he's learning. Add it
up over a week, and you'll be flabbergasted!
Weekly reports to his dad may look so impressive that he no longer
needs test scores. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: A Voss Dolce <avd@...>
I wanted to thank Kelly for sharing her plan for her son; it is a model
that any
parent would want for their children. I too want to strive for the
kind of
goals listed...
-=-=-=-=-
You're welcome.
But it's not so much the *goals*---it's the very loose *plan* that
"allows" us to go with the flow of his interests. It's our curriculum
(adapted from Carol Narigon's), but nowhere does it dictate what, when,
and how we will cover. It reassures doubters, but it also falls way
short of committing us to anything specific
-=-=-=-=-=-=-.
He spends a great deal of time playing World of Warcraft where he has
built
skills such as typing and spelling and communication through playing (
many
hours per day).
-=-=-=-=-=-
Typing
Spelling
Communication Skills
Role Playing
Problem Solving
Navigation Skills
Strategy
History
Mythology
Costuming
-=-=-=-=-=-
He is frequently the group leader of forays into WOW land. In
the last month he designed a private server , and was elected guild
leader .
His friends call him for advice on how to play the game and he often
troubleshoots for them.
-=-=-=-=-
Leadership Skills
Web Design
Politics
Advising Skills
-=-=-=-==-
He loves to solve problems that others have with their technology - and
often
comes to Mom's rescue.
-=-=-=-
I can't say enough how important the love of problem-solving is!!! It's
so unfortunate how many schooled children learn to hate to solve
problems!!!
-=-=-=-=-
He has built computer systems for friends, and his
friends' parents ask for his advice, which has been so empowering for
him! All
he wanted for Christmas was the individual componenents of a computer
which he
then assembled to make a super mega gameplaying system. I bought an AP
computer
programming course and he is writing JAVA code.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Advanced Computer Skills: building, writing, and explaining
Math
-=-=-=-=-=-
He reads nonfiction, and recently has found that fiction can be
interesting to
read; he liked the James Patterson 'Maximum Ride' series.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Information Gathering
Literature
-=-=-=-=-=-
Last year he attended a blacksmithing workshop and want to build his
own forge.
-=-=-=-=-
Metallurgy
Chemistry
Physics
Blacksmithing
History
-=-=-=-=-=-
After learning about the honeybee crisis last year, he is interested in
beekeeping ( we're attending a workshop on how to set up a hive in Feb).
-=-=-=-=-
History
Current Events
Biology
Botany
Sociology
Physics
Animal Husbandry
(You'll love the bees, by the way! I have two hives!)
-=-=-=-=-
At various times he has expressed interest in gardening, twig furniture
making, and
poultry farming among other things.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Botany
Life Sciences
Physics
Biology
Animal Husbandry
-=-=-=-=-=-
He watches the science and history channel
frequently and is an avid Star Trek fan.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Science
History
Art
-=-=-=-=-=-
But most of his time currently is
invested in World of Warcraft and other video games.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Please read _Don't Bother Me, Mom! I'm Learning_ to get a good dose of
what's being learned through video and computer gaming.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I have an additional burden of having to justify my methods to an ex
husband. I
need to show him 'evidence' of learning, i.e. test scores, in the
school
subjects.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Your child is old enough to understand that he may need to "play the
game" of testing to satisfy his father's need for testing---IF it comes
to that.
But I think if you can just start translating what he's doing into a
portfolio of learning---a narrative is especially reassuring---the ex
will be satisfied with a weekly/monthly description of his learning.
One thing I didn't see you list was Discussion. The majority of my
boys' learning is through conversations with me, their dad, friends,
and each other. When they actually ask a question, they are "in the
moment" of discovery: they WANT that knowledge, so they're very
receptive to learning. That discussion/conversation time is a HUGE part
of our learning here. I write down things we discuss, and you'd be
surprised at how many things are learned in small two-three minute
bites of time throughout the day. Commercials are a big source of
discussion. Sit-coms too. Movies (and Tivo!) allow for a lot of
learning.
My biggest suggestion is to dedicate a week to write down everything
you witness (and things he will come to you about later). Write it all
down as if you HAD to document. Soon you will see how much he does do.
It will also allow you to eventually write down "WOW" in your notebook
as shorthand for *ALL* the things that he's learning while playing (I
do this with "Bionicles"---which denotes building (math & physics),
role-playing (drama), storytelling (composition), design (art),
cooperation (with a friend) (social skills), and buying new Bionicles
(economics).)
So---starting when he wakes up, write down everything he does today.
Quit looking at it as "just play" and start seeing teh actual learning
that is happening. You'll be amazed at what all he's learning. Add it
up over a week, and you'll be flabbergasted!
Weekly reports to his dad may look so impressive that he no longer
needs test scores. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com