Beth Mouser

Maybe I am way out of line by posting this here but I am not sure
who to talk to about a problem I am experiencing. I so much value
the advice and opinions of the moms on this list, so I thought I
would just throw it out there...

This past year I have pretty much lost all interest in having a
sexual relationship with my hubby, whom I love dearly. We have been
married for 14 years and have 2 kids that I am unschooling (well, we
are still doing some math first thing in the morning, but that's
it.)

I have been, shall we say, "giving in" to him to keep him happy
although he would like to have more frequent encounters. After
about 2 weeks, he announces how much time has gone by, and then I
give in after 3 weeks, when he declares that it's now been 3 weeks!

One thing that really got me thinking about unschooling, is how I
don't enjoy feeling forced into doing this (and that's how I feel)
but if I don't comply, I probably won't stay married.

Do other wives feel this way? I feel I've had enough sex to last me
a lifetime and just don't want to do it anymore. I am 43 and once
we get going, I enjoy the encounter and we definitely "are great"
together. I think, "why don't I want to do this? It felt
wonderful." But then afterwards, I just am not in the mood. I
think most of it may be that I am very tired in the evening. We get
together only on the weekends because my husband gets up VERY early
and I go to bed later.

Any suggestions would be very appreciated. If this discussion is
inappropriate for here, then I certainly understand.

Thanks,
Martha

trektheory

In a nutshell -- yes, sometimes.

More elaboration now. I have periods of time when my libido is very
low. (And when we first got married and I was on the pill, it was
more or less non-existent. I finally went off the pill, because I
figured, why was I on hormones all month long for something that was
only happening occasionally, and then only out of guilt.)

Later, I had infertility issues. HAVING to have sex (a necessary
ingredient to baby-making) at a specific time/interval is far less
romantic. He once complained about it -- and I said to him, "After
all I've been through this week, the least you can do is your part
without complaining!" (Yeah, seriously funny when you think about it!)

Now I know that my cycle and libido are connected -- that my libido is
higher, my lubrication more there, when I am around ovulation.

However, when I'm tired, I really really don't feel like it, even
then. I often put on a happy face, as it were, because if dh is
happier, so am I -- but it occasionally is like laundry. A chore, but
not odious.

If my allergies are bad, I'm less interested. Much less.

If I'm sick, forget it.

There are many factors involved, but remember -- the libido is a
physical thing, and those factors can effect that as well.

HTH!

Linda

--- In [email protected], "Beth Mouser" <mouser4@...>
wrote:
>
> Maybe I am way out of line by posting this here but I am not sure
> who to talk to about a problem I am experiencing. I so much value
> the advice and opinions of the moms on this list, so I thought I
> would just throw it out there...
>
> This past year I have pretty much lost all interest in having a
> sexual relationship with my hubby, whom I love dearly. We have been
> married for 14 years and have 2 kids that I am unschooling (well, we
> are still doing some math first thing in the morning, but that's
> it.)
>
> I have been, shall we say, "giving in" to him to keep him happy
> although he would like to have more frequent encounters. After
> about 2 weeks, he announces how much time has gone by, and then I
> give in after 3 weeks, when he declares that it's now been 3 weeks!
>
> One thing that really got me thinking about unschooling, is how I
> don't enjoy feeling forced into doing this (and that's how I feel)
> but if I don't comply, I probably won't stay married.
>
> Do other wives feel this way? I feel I've had enough sex to last me
> a lifetime and just don't want to do it anymore. I am 43 and once
> we get going, I enjoy the encounter and we definitely "are great"
> together. I think, "why don't I want to do this? It felt
> wonderful." But then afterwards, I just am not in the mood. I
> think most of it may be that I am very tired in the evening. We get
> together only on the weekends because my husband gets up VERY early
> and I go to bed later.
>
> Any suggestions would be very appreciated. If this discussion is
> inappropriate for here, then I certainly understand.
>
> Thanks,
> Martha
>

Sarah Wilson

This is really interesting as I am having the same issues but the other
way round - as it is DH who seems to have gone off the idea.

I can really identify with the 'its been 3 weeks' comment as its
something I find myself saying to him

I must admit that I tend to 'personalise' it and feel that it must be
some failing in me - reading your story and seeing the issue 'from the
other side' so to speak has made me think again, that maybe it doesnt
all centre around me and my percieved failings, but has more to do with
DH and how he is feeling. I am very good at seeing things as related to
a short coming in me - something I need to work on really as some times
I feel it is a bit of paranoia, and other times I worry I have some sort
of self impotance complex.

I too will look forward to seeing other peoples answers and views on
this topic as hopefully they will give me some insight too

Thanks for bringing up what can be a difficlut subject - I for one would
not have spoken up with a prompt, but am glad to 'have an excuse' to
explore the issues

Sarah
Unschooling Mum to H(11) & M(9)
In Barcelona, Spain



trektheory wrote:
>
> In a nutshell -- yes, sometimes.
>
> More elaboration now. I have periods of time when my libido is very
> low. (And when we first got married and I was on the pill, it was
> more or less non-existent. I finally went off the pill, because I
> figured, why was I on hormones all month long for something that was
> only happening occasionally, and then only out of guilt.)
>
> Later, I had infertility issues. HAVING to have sex (a necessary
> ingredient to baby-making) at a specific time/interval is far less
> romantic. He once complained about it -- and I said to him, "After
> all I've been through this week, the least you can do is your part
> without complaining!" (Yeah, seriously funny when you think about it!)
>
> Now I know that my cycle and libido are connected -- that my libido is
> higher, my lubrication more there, when I am around ovulation.
>
> However, when I'm tired, I really really don't feel like it, even
> then. I often put on a happy face, as it were, because if dh is
> happier, so am I -- but it occasionally is like laundry. A chore, but
> not odious.
>
> If my allergies are bad, I'm less interested. Much less.
>
> If I'm sick, forget it.
>
> There are many factors involved, but remember -- the libido is a
> physical thing, and those factors can effect that as well.
>
> HTH!
>
> Linda
>
> --- In [email protected]
> <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>, "Beth Mouser" <mouser4@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I am way out of line by posting this here but I am not sure
> > who to talk to about a problem I am experiencing. I so much value
> > the advice and opinions of the moms on this list, so I thought I
> > would just throw it out there...
> >
> > This past year I have pretty much lost all interest in having a
> > sexual relationship with my hubby, whom I love dearly. We have been
> > married for 14 years and have 2 kids that I am unschooling (well, we
> > are still doing some math first thing in the morning, but that's
> > it.)
> >
> > I have been, shall we say, "giving in" to him to keep him happy
> > although he would like to have more frequent encounters. After
> > about 2 weeks, he announces how much time has gone by, and then I
> > give in after 3 weeks, when he declares that it's now been 3 weeks!
> >
> > One thing that really got me thinking about unschooling, is how I
> > don't enjoy feeling forced into doing this (and that's how I feel)
> > but if I don't comply, I probably won't stay married.
> >
> > Do other wives feel this way? I feel I've had enough sex to last me
> > a lifetime and just don't want to do it anymore. I am 43 and once
> > we get going, I enjoy the encounter and we definitely "are great"
> > together. I think, "why don't I want to do this? It felt
> > wonderful." But then afterwards, I just am not in the mood. I
> > think most of it may be that I am very tired in the evening. We get
> > together only on the weekends because my husband gets up VERY early
> > and I go to bed later.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very appreciated. If this discussion is
> > inappropriate for here, then I certainly understand.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Martha
> >
>
>

Beth Mouser

Linda and Sarah--

I'm always a good one to bring up taboo subjects. I figured this
sort of ties in with unschooling, because unschooling is about
choice and sometimes I feel like I don't have choice and must do an
obligatory duty. I don't like to feel that way about it, but here
lately I have.

I will definitely take into account ovulation. I had not remembered
that ovulation was a time that may be best for libido (not sure if I
have any of that though). My mom says what I'm experiencing is not
normal and I should have my hormones checked, which I might do.

Sarah, my husband also went through a spell where he did not have
interest in sex. It was while I was pregnant and it was so hard for
me. I remember feeling rejection and I know that is how he is
feeling right now. However, I tried not to make him feel
compelled. It has gone full circle with us it seems. I remember
that what we did to help him when he had no interest was we watched
some "steamy" films together and that really helped and then he was
better as I recall.

I have done more thinking today and one idea is that we should try
to get together at another time rather than late at night on the
weekends. Also, exercise may give me more energy and help me feel
better about myself.

Is it fair to tell him though that just because it's been 3 weeks,
I don't have to do something I don't feel like doing?

Martha -

-- In [email protected], Sarah Wilson <sarah@...>
wrote:
>
> This is really interesting as I am having the same issues but the
other
> way round - as it is DH who seems to have gone off the idea.
>
> I can really identify with the 'its been 3 weeks' comment as its
> something I find myself saying to him
>
> I must admit that I tend to 'personalise' it and feel that it must
be
> some failing in me - reading your story and seeing the issue 'from
the
> other side' so to speak has made me think again, that maybe it
doesnt
> all centre around me and my percieved failings, but has more to do
with
> DH and how he is feeling. I am very good at seeing things as
related to
> a short coming in me - something I need to work on really as some
times
> I feel it is a bit of paranoia, and other times I worry I have
some sort
> of self impotance complex.
>
> I too will look forward to seeing other peoples answers and views
on
> this topic as hopefully they will give me some insight too
>
> Thanks for bringing up what can be a difficlut subject - I for one
would
> not have spoken up with a prompt, but am glad to 'have an excuse'
to
> explore the issues
>
> Sarah
> Unschooling Mum to H(11) & M(9)
> In Barcelona, Spain
>
>
>
> trektheory wrote:
> >
> > In a nutshell -- yes, sometimes.
> >
> > More elaboration now. I have periods of time when my libido is
very
> > low. (And when we first got married and I was on the pill, it was
> > more or less non-existent. I finally went off the pill, because I
> > figured, why was I on hormones all month long for something that
was
> > only happening occasionally, and then only out of guilt.)
> >
> > Later, I had infertility issues. HAVING to have sex (a necessary
> > ingredient to baby-making) at a specific time/interval is far
less
> > romantic. He once complained about it -- and I said to
him, "After
> > all I've been through this week, the least you can do is your
part
> > without complaining!" (Yeah, seriously funny when you think
about it!)
> >
> > Now I know that my cycle and libido are connected -- that my
libido is
> > higher, my lubrication more there, when I am around ovulation.
> >
> > However, when I'm tired, I really really don't feel like it, even
> > then. I often put on a happy face, as it were, because if dh is
> > happier, so am I -- but it occasionally is like laundry. A
chore, but
> > not odious.
> >
> > If my allergies are bad, I'm less interested. Much less.
> >
> > If I'm sick, forget it.
> >
> > There are many factors involved, but remember -- the libido is a
> > physical thing, and those factors can effect that as well.
> >
> > HTH!
> >
> > Linda
> >
> > --- In [email protected]
> > <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>, "Beth Mouser"
<mouser4@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe I am way out of line by posting this here but I am not
sure
> > > who to talk to about a problem I am experiencing. I so much
value
> > > the advice and opinions of the moms on this list, so I thought
I
> > > would just throw it out there...
> > >
> > > This past year I have pretty much lost all interest in having a
> > > sexual relationship with my hubby, whom I love dearly. We have
been
> > > married for 14 years and have 2 kids that I am unschooling
(well, we
> > > are still doing some math first thing in the morning, but
that's
> > > it.)
> > >
> > > I have been, shall we say, "giving in" to him to keep him happy
> > > although he would like to have more frequent encounters. After
> > > about 2 weeks, he announces how much time has gone by, and
then I
> > > give in after 3 weeks, when he declares that it's now been 3
weeks!
> > >
> > > One thing that really got me thinking about unschooling, is
how I
> > > don't enjoy feeling forced into doing this (and that's how I
feel)
> > > but if I don't comply, I probably won't stay married.
> > >
> > > Do other wives feel this way? I feel I've had enough sex to
last me
> > > a lifetime and just don't want to do it anymore. I am 43 and
once
> > > we get going, I enjoy the encounter and we definitely "are
great"
> > > together. I think, "why don't I want to do this? It felt
> > > wonderful." But then afterwards, I just am not in the mood. I
> > > think most of it may be that I am very tired in the evening.
We get
> > > together only on the weekends because my husband gets up VERY
early
> > > and I go to bed later.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be very appreciated. If this discussion
is
> > > inappropriate for here, then I certainly understand.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Martha
> > >
> >
> >
>

Justine Sumchick

I think this is a common problem among busy women! We have so much going on
it is hard to just relax and give in to pleasure for its own sake. But...
its not really just for its own sake. I am only actually *interested* in
sex 2 or so days per month (it's been found that humans do go into heat;
they could have just asked us women, eh?) However, when I'm not in the mood
and hubby is, I have basically three choices. I can say, "Not tonight, I
have a headache." I can 'give in' and let him get his rocks off (yuck!) Or
I can intentionally and consciously refocus on my husband and our
relationship and intimacy and how important our marriage is to the kids, and
remind myself of the pleasure to come, and completely enjoy the experience.
My recommendation? Stop making the poor guy wait and beg! Think sexy
thoughts. Look at sexy pictures. Read a romance novel. Whatever it takes
to keep you in the mood. Imagine being a man who wants to reconnect with
his wife and he knows deep inside she's just doing it to placate him. Don't
expect to be 'in the mood'. Create the mood yourself, intentionally. Kind
of like creating a mind-shift around housework (I haven't pulled that one
off yet), only I'd say sex is a lot more rewarding lol. Anyway that's my
thoughts on the matter.


On 12/15/07, Beth Mouser <mouser4@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe I am way out of line by posting this here but I am not sure
> who to talk to about a problem I am experiencing. I so much value
> the advice and opinions of the moms on this list, so I thought I
> would just throw it out there...
>
> This past year I have pretty much lost all interest in having a
> sexual relationship with my hubby, whom I love dearly. We have been
> married for 14 years and have 2 kids that I am unschooling (well, we
> are still doing some math first thing in the morning, but that's
> it.)
>
> I have been, shall we say, "giving in" to him to keep him happy
> although he would like to have more frequent encounters. After
> about 2 weeks, he announces how much time has gone by, and then I
> give in after 3 weeks, when he declares that it's now been 3 weeks!
>
> One thing that really got me thinking about unschooling, is how I
> don't enjoy feeling forced into doing this (and that's how I feel)
> but if I don't comply, I probably won't stay married.
>
> Do other wives feel this way? I feel I've had enough sex to last me
> a lifetime and just don't want to do it anymore. I am 43 and once
> we get going, I enjoy the encounter and we definitely "are great"
> together. I think, "why don't I want to do this? It felt
> wonderful." But then afterwards, I just am not in the mood. I
> think most of it may be that I am very tired in the evening. We get
> together only on the weekends because my husband gets up VERY early
> and I go to bed later.
>
> Any suggestions would be very appreciated. If this discussion is
> inappropriate for here, then I certainly understand.
>
> Thanks,
> Martha
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Beth Mouser" <mouser4@...>
wrote:
>
> Linda and Sarah--
>
> I'm always a good one to bring up taboo subjects.

In some ways, it seems ashame that is is a taboo subject -- that our
society managed to make violence okay to talk about, make movies
about, etc., but sex -- a normal, natural part of life -- is "bad."
Aren't we a weird species?



> I will definitely take into account ovulation. I had not remembered
> that ovulation was a time that may be best for libido (not sure if I
> have any of that though).

Yeah -- if you ever did the temperature charting, there is a strong
correlation between hormones near ovulation and cervical mucus -- and
I never noticed it until I was on pergonal, because, well, I probably
never had it! It makes sense, though, from a biological point of
view. Nature wants us to make babies, and making the sex drive
stronger when that is more likely to happen is fairly obvious, once we
think about it. But we so rarely think about it! However,
perimenopause on, sometimes messes up those hormones, so that could
certainly be a factor.




> I have done more thinking today and one idea is that we should try
> to get together at another time rather than late at night on the
> weekends.

Oh, yes, definitely! Mornings are a MUCH better time for me. I'm
less prone to exhaustion then, for some straaaange reason, and less
prone to headaches (which I get far too frequently, and worse
afternoons on. Not very romantic, eh?) Plus, most guys wake up
"ready," kwim?

Linda

Karen Swanay

In general, men get affirmation of the love their wives feel for them
> through sex. It's NOT just a physical release. It is often one of the only
> times that they are vulnerable and open. To say "I don't feel like it,
> tough shit buddy" is akin to abuse IMO. I also have problems, PCOS and
> resultant hormonal issues, so I TOTALLY get it. I feel completely asexual.
> HOWEVER, how would I feel if I my husband stopped telling me he loved me?
> Or stopped holding my hand? Or giving me a hug? And how would I feel about
> it if he said "Well, you know, I just don't FEEL like it and I shouldn't
> have to do anything I don't want to do." omg...I'd be devastated. Wouldn't
> you be? When you cut your husband off you are telling him "Your need for
> love, attention and physical closeness is irrelevant to me. You know I love
> you because I said it a while ago, and that should be enough." I admit to
> being new to this unschooling thing, but this subject goes beyond what one
> person wants to do and totally to what does your spouse need to feel loved,
> happy, and secure? IMO we have the right to withhold sex but we should
> not. Everytime I feel like "blah...I just want to go to sleep...here we go
> again." I take myself to a place where I feel vulnerable, scared, or
> unwell. When I'm sick (and I have autoimmune issues so I'm sick a lot.) My
> husband drops everything and takes care of me. He hugs me. He holds achy
> joints until the pain goes away, or he holds me while I cry myself to
> sleep. And if he can do that for me, I surely can find it in my heart to
> make sure he knows I love him in the way he needs to hear it. Love
> shouldn't be about being "forced" to do anything, you should have enough
> love in your heart to be able to do this for him because you want him to
> feel how much you love him and how important he is to you.
>

Karen

>
>
>



--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

I've been following the whole sex discussion with great interest, because I am one of those exhausted moms for whom there is never a good time for sex, I am just not interested 99% of the time. I love what Karen has said and I say a hearty amen! I have learned lately that when I say no to him when he asks for sex that after awhile I'm not just saying no to him, I'm rejecting him loving me and him feeling love from me. He is very willing to sleep in Saturday mornings so I can sleep until I want to, or to give me neck massage when I have a tension headache, or to just try and make things better for me, so why am I so quick to say no when he asks for a little. Mostly because I've been giving giving giving all day, and with 3 year old twin girls I'm really touched OUT by the time evening comes!!! Anyway, just wanted to say an amen to Karen's email and this is a work in progress for me about being open and loving with my husband even when I sometimes (often!) don't feel
like it. Thanks so much for all the honesty and sharing I've been able to read and learn from here. I would love another name for unschooling, because the whole unschooling philosophy is sure bigger than just not doing school isn't it?!? I think I like life learning better :o)
Jodi
Partner to Ryan, mom to Jade & Skye, 3 on Dec 14th!

Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
In general, men get affirmation of the love their wives feel for them
> through sex. It's NOT just a physical release. It is often one of the only
> times that they are vulnerable and open. To say "I don't feel like it,
> tough shit buddy" is akin to abuse IMO. I also have problems, PCOS and
> resultant hormonal issues, so I TOTALLY get it. I feel completely asexual.
> HOWEVER, how would I feel if I my husband stopped telling me he loved me?
> Or stopped holding my hand? Or giving me a hug? And how would I feel about
> it if he said "Well, you know, I just don't FEEL like it and I shouldn't
> have to do anything I don't want to do." omg...I'd be devastated. Wouldn't
> you be? When you cut your husband off you are telling him "Your need for
> love, attention and physical closeness is irrelevant to me. You know I love
> you because I said it a while ago, and that should be enough." I admit to
> being new to this unschooling thing, but this subject goes beyond what one
> person wants to do and totally to what does your spouse need to feel loved,
> happy, and secure? IMO we have the right to withhold sex but we should
> not. Everytime I feel like "blah...I just want to go to sleep...here we go
> again." I take myself to a place where I feel vulnerable, scared, or
> unwell. When I'm sick (and I have autoimmune issues so I'm sick a lot.) My
> husband drops everything and takes care of me. He hugs me. He holds achy
> joints until the pain goes away, or he holds me while I cry myself to
> sleep. And if he can do that for me, I surely can find it in my heart to
> make sure he knows I love him in the way he needs to hear it. Love
> shouldn't be about being "forced" to do anything, you should have enough
> love in your heart to be able to do this for him because you want him to
> feel how much you love him and how important he is to you.
>

Karen

>
>
>

--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

I agree with Justine's comments about making a choice -- not with a
sense of giving in just to keep him happy, since that's a choice likely
to create resentment in you.

I think he is looking for connection with you -- he's speaking in a
love language that for him says he's loved, and that he uses to tell
you he loves you. Sex is an essential part of a happy marriage for
most couples -- it's a connection, a release, appreciation and trust
for many people.

It sounds like you're wanting to 'unschool' your marriage -- in that
you'd like the same freedom to say no that you give your kids in
unschooling. And wouldn't you like to give him the same freedom and
desire to meet his needs you extend to your kids -- to be able to give
that freedom and respect and support to each other?

There's a yahoo group for unschooling parents/couples who want to
unschool their marriage, to better live the unschooling principles in
their partnership they've seen work so well with the kids.

Here's a link -- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peacefulpartnerships/

The listowner is an unschooling Mom from my local tribe in Albuquerque,
and the group has been hugely helpful to me as we find our way thru a
change in our routine that has dh away more than he's home. I think
that when you apply to join, you need to wait for approval, and I know
Beth has houseguests this weekend, so she may be slow responding to
requests to join.

Sylvia

Robert Saxon

Coming from the guy...

> Is it fair to tell him though that just because it's been 3 weeks,
> I don't have to do something I don't feel like doing?

I wish I had an answer for you. My gut says that this is a surface
question, but there are more important issues that need to be addressed
first. Unschooling has taught me that, in many, many cases, the direct
answer to a problem is very often the wrong answer. And the "Most Obvious"
way to look at a problem is the one that prevents us from seeing a
solution. They look like they model reality correctly, but too often they
don't take into account other important factors. And sometimes we're too
blind to see those issues. For example...

... Could this just be the accumulation of so much sleep deprivation that OF
COURSE you don't want to. About a month of sleeping would get you
interested again ...

... maybe he doesn't shower but once a week, and ya know, you just don't see
the romance of week-old B.O. ...

... more exercise for you? To get energy, expend energy ...

... more exercise for him? When his paunch overlaps his knees, something
has to give ...

... I think someone mentioned hormones ... (sleep can help this also)

... A lot has been said about what DW needs to look at, and what might be
"wrong" with her. Perhaps there's also (or only) something "wrong" with DH
as well. I agree that each of us are ONLY in charge of ourselves. Pointing
the finger elsewhere (blaming) does no good. But since I AM married,
there's another Me here, and that is the Married Me, or the Royal We. It's
also up to me to respectfully address this with the other half of We.

...Or... have you considered the possibility that what lights your fire
could be so drastically different than what it was before you had kids that
you might not even know what it is? People change constantly, and
sometimes, dramatically. Since having kids, your needs have changed. You
give of yourself in different and in more intense ways. You give more of
yourself than ever before. So why wouldn't your personal, intimate needs
change? Maybe even drasitcally?

And what if you know what that is, but he doesn't? How do you tell your DH
to try something different? To repeat an earlier post,

> In general, men get affirmation of the love their wives feel for them
> through sex. It's NOT just a physical release. It is often one of the only
> times that they are vulnerable and open.

It sometimes shocks me how insecure I am when being intimate with DW. If
she says, "Hey, are you willing to try something?" I hear, "You know, you
just couldn't do it for me. Something's wrong with you." Doesn't make
sense unless you understand the insecurity there.

So, how to broach new things with DH and (hopefully) still keep everyone
having fun?

a. Unschool your DH. Respectful interaction. We've learned (somewhat,
anyway) how to talk to our own kids respectfully. Gotta apply it to us,
too. Our egos are only 5 years old, sometimes, too.
b. A long lead-in time for me to get used to the idea. This helps me get
over my insecurity, sometimes by half-believing it was my own idea by the
time we get to it.
c. if you get as far as actually trying something different, then while DH
is 'assisting', then very positive encouragement. Almost ridiculously
positive encouragement. Think especially of unschooling your DH here.
Except here you can use your Adult Bedroom Voice of Encouragement.

--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for (almost!) 11 years (12/31)
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (6) and Elissa (4 7/12)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Zoa Conner

I am thinking about Rob¹s post for this first paragraph. One thing that
might work is to learn about something sex related together ­ then try it.
For example, maybe oral sex is not in your regular repertoire. Then get and
read together (in whatever way works for you two) books like She Comes
First: the Thinking Man¹s Guide to Pleasuring a Woman. If you approach it
with the attitude ³play with me ­ and I¹d like to learn more about this²
then it might not be so threatening to DH. There is similar book written for
women about pleasuring their man ­ so you could both benefit in multiple
ways.

Also, consider your age when thinking about your attitude towards sex. For
many women, lubrication wanes as they age and for other reasons. Sometimes
you just need a great lubricant to help get you in the mood. Or maybe it
would help if he did the dishes (or fill in other task which he rarely does)
and made you feel like you had more time available. You of course could
reciprocate the job trade and then go make out on the couch:-)

Enjoy,
Zoa


----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Montessori Homeschooling Mother
zoaconner@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Or... have you considered the possibility that what lights your fire
could be so drastically different than what it was before you had kids
that you might not even know what it is?~~

You know, that just reminded me of a book I used to have a long time
ago. Didn't care for the title but it had some good stuff in
it...something like "How can we light the fire when the kids are
driving us crazy?"
The title sounds terribly disrespectful towards children, but as far
as I remember, the book was pretty useful in some areas. Might be
worth looking into anyway.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Aryeh Winter-Card

Dear Martha,

I did the same thing you're doing for years. I felt like if I never had sex again in my life I wouldn't miss it. It didn't feel good to me or my husband to be in this place where he was always begging and I was always refusing him or giving in out of guilt. A few months ago, I went to see an accupuncturist for fatigue and libido, and it really has helped. I have a lot more energy and I enjoy sex. The accupuncturist I saw was a five element accupuncturist.

Best of luck.
Lisa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laurie Wolfrum

Perhaps you could try just connecting with dh more in
general. Like spend more time together doing things
you both enjoy. This doesn't necessarily mean alone,
you can do it anytime. Ie. If the kids are playing on
the floor and dh is playing with them, join them and
sit close to dh. Play too and enjoy yourself and your
family. And do take advantage of snuggling or hugging
if you enjoy that and wish to just let him know you
love him. Like if you are all watching tv or reading
a book together, do sit next to dh and relax together.
All these little interactions might add up and make
you feel more positive towards your dh and in general.
And...well...maybe just plan on cuddling in bed naked
(after kiddos are sleeping) and just see if that leads
anywhere or not. Sometimes it might just be nice to
snuggle that way, and other times it might turn you on
and lead to more. Laurie


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Lisa

I remember feeling this way when my kids were little and there was
just so much going on all day in taking care of them and interacting
with them that at night I just couldn't fathom taking care of one more
person!

A few things that I found helped that ... the number one thing is TAKE
CARE OF YOU!(not at the expense of others...don't leave the baby on
the front stoop!) Take a long bubble bath, ask for the space and
quiet that you need ...if you take care of you it makes you a better
mother and wife (when the tank is empty you have nothing to give!)
In those days my kids went to bed fairly early (9 or 10) So after they
were down for the night I hit the tub!

The second thing is that if you touch your husband and accept his
touch throughout the day it builds a deeper intimacy that in my
opinion makes you feel less "surprised" when he wants to have sex.
Think of it as continuous foreplay! My husband is a toucher so my
first reaction when we were first together was "uh oh he's touching me
that means he wants something more" which was my experience in
previous relationships. For him it's an extension of his love and
his need for touch...to touch and be touched. During those times I
felt less receptive I would realize that we were so busy we weren't
touching each other like we usually did.

Another thing that I think helps is that we value our time alone
together.... when our kids were little we would go away for a weekend
alone a couple of times a year and leave the children with their
grandparents. We find time to go and have lunch together, we shop
together and other little things like that that just give us small
bits of time together to reconnect. I think when you do that you
feel less torn at home when you want to be with your spouse and your
children and everyone's needs seem to weigh heavily on you.

Also be honest with your husband.... let him know that how you feel so
you aren't' just playing this avoidance game that leaves him wondering
what's wrong with him! Men are very visual so understand that him
wanting to be intimate is a bit compliment because the mere sight of
you does it for him! It's also the reason that it's hard for men to
just "cuddle" or to rub your back and not want more. If you are
honest and tell them you need to feel loved and cherished by touching
only and the expectation is clear then you are both getting your needs
met. I have found lots of times when he is able to give me what I
need and understand the limits of it then the deeper intimacy comes
along on it's own (not always that night but it starts the process).

Anyway those are things that have helped my relationship with my
husband... hopefully something I have shared will help yours! It's
so hard to feel like you are letting someone down or that there's
something wrong with you (I mean everyone else just loves sex and has
it 14 times a week don't they?? HA!)
Lisa B

Jodi Bezzola

Just wanted to add two more cents to this topic: I recently started back doing yoga just about every morning (I go really early before my husband goes to work) and not only am I feeling tons better (doing something for myself FIRST every day has been amazing), but I now ocassionaly actually want sex (that I want it at all is also amazing :o)). I know for me dealing with kids is so unpredictable and so intense that I barely notice if I'm breathing most moments, and the yoga forces me practice slowing down, focusing on my breath, be in my body, which are also things that really help me enjoy sex and have the energy for it. It's also something regular for ME that I don't just 'fit in when I can', but it's 4x a week like clockwork now. I paid for the whole year in advance so I'd keep going when it got tough :o).
All the best,
Jodi

Aryeh Winter-Card <acecard711@...> wrote:
Dear Martha,

I did the same thing you're doing for years. I felt like if I never had sex again in my life I wouldn't miss it. It didn't feel good to me or my husband to be in this place where he was always begging and I was always refusing him or giving in out of guilt. A few months ago, I went to see an accupuncturist for fatigue and libido, and it really has helped. I have a lot more energy and I enjoy sex. The accupuncturist I saw was a five element accupuncturist.

Best of luck.
Lisa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Martha, were you once more sexual? If so, I wonder if your hormones might be
a big part of this. That possibility is one to consider. I may be behind, as
my computer died this weekend, so please pardon me if my response is useless,
k?
Take care!
Karen


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laurie Wolfrum

After I responded to this I still thought about it
more. I wondered if you wanted to reconnect with him
more and really feel like you *want* to have sex or if
you want to know it is truly okay to not have it if
you don't feel like it. I had originally thought you
were looking for ways to want to again, but now I want
to add this:
1. My husband and I respect each other's feelings and
just tell each other if we are not interested. And
that I do believe that a person should not just do it
to please another. Of course, each person must decide
whether the are willing to just do it or not. 2. I
agree with other posters that you can just feel so
touched out and stretched in so many ways, esp when
you have wee ones and are nursing around the clock. I
don't feel like it for so long after the birth of my
kids!!
3. And lastly, if there are other issues going on
between the two of you, you may not feel like it
because you may feel upset with either him or yourself
or both. Resolving conflicts or just the process
itself of beginning to address conflicts might help
you to feel closer (if that is what you are seeking).
Look within yourself to realize what you want and
what you need to do to to get there. Laurie


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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Marni Hall

I've got to jump in here and pass on a GREAT website and book, both by Dr.
Laura Brotherson, and "Intimacy Educator" and "Relationship Consultant."
The website is http://www.strengtheningmarriage.com/, and she's got a bunch
of articles on there, a Q&A section, and a bunch of other great information.
I read her book "And They Were Not Ashamed" and it was a HUGE help for me
when I read it a few months ago. One great thing is that it is from the
female perspective, so for husbands it's got a lot of great information.
She talks about the "Good Girl Syndrome," the female sexual response, lots
of scriptural references about intimacy in marriage, and even how to talk to
your kids about sex. She is very blunt and to the point. I've listened to
some podcasts with her answering questions as well, and I'll tell you, she
loves to talk about sex.



Before reading the book I wouldn't say I was entirely uninterested, but it
was very seldom that I was looking for it. I definitely look more forward
to it, and things just keep getting better. I honestly feel like sex has
become a strengthening power in our marriage instead of something avoided.



Seriously, check it out.



Marni



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beth Mouser

Marnie and everyone else who responded,

Thank you so much for all the support, advice, websites, books, and
even admonitions. I think the jist of my issue with not feeling
like I really want sex is due to being tired and too much going on.
We are doing alot right now with our house and some medical issues
in family and I just don't feel the "urge". It is definitely not a
hygiene problem with my husband. He is very clean. And I still
would choose him if I had a choice of partners and was begging for
it! Oooh, it's getting hot in here suddenly...

He and I are usually honest about how we are feeling and that's why
I have shared with him that I am not particularly wanting sex and
that I just want to climb into bed and go to sleep. My only
complaint might be that I sometimes feel my feelings don't matter
that much because he continally lets me know how much time has
elapsed ("it's been 2 weeks"). I know he can say the same that I'm
not listening to his feelings about satisfying him.

We are going to try to set an evening aside every other week and
start things earlier in the evening rather than waiting late at
night before going to bed at practically midnight on the weekend.
One thing that may help me is watching a fairly smutty movie...not
porn...but something like Basic Instinct. Oh, that's so old.
That's a problem...I don't know of any good ones!

Why can't they make a horny pill for women? They've come up with
Viagra for men. Women are still apparently being left out in the
cold:)

Thanks again for all the support from so many~

Martha

---

In [email protected], "Marni Hall" <marni@...>
wrote:
>
> I've got to jump in here and pass on a GREAT website and book,
both by Dr.
> Laura Brotherson, and "Intimacy Educator" and "Relationship
Consultant."
> The website is http://www.strengtheningmarriage.com/, and she's
got a bunch
> of articles on there, a Q&A section, and a bunch of other great
information.
> I read her book "And They Were Not Ashamed" and it was a HUGE help
for me
> when I read it a few months ago. One great thing is that it is
from the
> female perspective, so for husbands it's got a lot of great
information.
> She talks about the "Good Girl Syndrome," the female sexual
response, lots
> of scriptural references about intimacy in marriage, and even how
to talk to
> your kids about sex. She is very blunt and to the point. I've
listened to
> some podcasts with her answering questions as well, and I'll tell
you, she
> loves to talk about sex.
>
>
>
> Before reading the book I wouldn't say I was entirely
uninterested, but it
> was very seldom that I was looking for it. I definitely look more
forward
> to it, and things just keep getting better. I honestly feel like
sex has
> become a strengthening power in our marriage instead of something
avoided.
>
>
>
> Seriously, check it out.
>
>
>
> Marni
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Zoa Conner

Martha,

Maybe it will help if you can identify a particular actor that you regard as
Œhot¹. Then just search the internet for his movies ­ current and old. Get
them from the library. Get lots!

Zoa


On 12/19/07 12:20 PM, "Beth Mouser" <mouser4@...> wrote:
> One thing that may help me is watching a fairly smutty movie...not
> porn...but something like Basic Instinct. Oh, that's so old.
> That's a problem...I don't know of any good ones!
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Montessori Homeschooling Mother
zoaconner@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/19/07 9:20:55 AM, mouser4@... writes:


> One thing that may help me is watching a fairly smutty movie...not
> porn...but something like Basic Instinct.  Oh, that's so old. 
> That's a problem...I don't know of any good ones! 
>

_____________________
t
How old are you, may I ask? (for movie reccomendation reasons, that is, lol!)
There is always literature..Even Nancy Friday's My Secret Garden :)

Karen


**************************************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Hi Martha,
Get a x-rated movie not Basic Instinct. They now hae some nice ones made for the women viwers. they have stories and are "nicer".
Also i agreee with getting exercise. Any kind. Yoga, biking, pilates, body pump. Streching. Whatever moves you. It makes a HUGE difference for me. take care of yourself.
Go get your hair done, buy new sexier clothes, get a massage.
You need to feel sexy and beautiful to feel sexy.
Eating healthy somehow helps me too.
Making sure I am not having any issues with dh. Work them out before your date.
think about all the wonderful things about your dh that made you love him.
Remeber all the great sex you had with him.
Drink a glass of good wine. ( don't dring more than two or it backfires as you become less sensitive physicaly)

All these have helped me a lot when my libido is down.
Alex



----- Original Message ----
From: Beth Mouser <mouser4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:20:35 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Not interested in sex in my marriage

Marnie and everyone else who responded,

Thank you so much for all the support, advice, websites, books, and
even admonitions. I think the jist of my issue with not feeling
like I really want sex is due to being tired and too much going on.
We are doing alot right now with our house and some medical issues
in family and I just don't feel the "urge". It is definitely not a
hygiene problem with my husband. He is very clean. And I still
would choose him if I had a choice of partners and was begging for
it! Oooh, it's getting hot in here suddenly...

He and I are usually honest about how we are feeling and that's why
I have shared with him that I am not particularly wanting sex and
that I just want to climb into bed and go to sleep. My only
complaint might be that I sometimes feel my feelings don't matter
that much because he continally lets me know how much time has
elapsed ("it's been 2 weeks"). I know he can say the same that I'm
not listening to his feelings about satisfying him.

We are going to try to set an evening aside every other week and
start things earlier in the evening rather than waiting late at
night before going to bed at practically midnight on the weekend.
One thing that may help me is watching a fairly smutty movie...not
porn...but something like Basic Instinct. Oh, that's so old.
That's a problem...I don't know of any good ones!

Why can't they make a horny pill for women? They've come up with
Viagra for men. Women are still apparently being left out in the
cold:)

Thanks again for all the support from so many~

Martha

---

In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Marni Hall" <marni@...>
wrote:
>
> I've got to jump in here and pass on a GREAT website and book,
both by Dr.
> Laura Brotherson, and "Intimacy Educator" and "Relationship
Consultant."
> The website is http://www.strength eningmarriage. com/, and she's
got a bunch
> of articles on there, a Q&A section, and a bunch of other great
information.
> I read her book "And They Were Not Ashamed" and it was a HUGE help
for me
> when I read it a few months ago. One great thing is that it is
from the
> female perspective, so for husbands it's got a lot of great
information.
> She talks about the "Good Girl Syndrome," the female sexual
response, lots
> of scriptural references about intimacy in marriage, and even how
to talk to
> your kids about sex. She is very blunt and to the point. I've
listened to
> some podcasts with her answering questions as well, and I'll tell
you, she
> loves to talk about sex.
>
>
>
> Before reading the book I wouldn't say I was entirely
uninterested, but it
> was very seldom that I was looking for it. I definitely look more
forward
> to it, and things just keep getting better. I honestly feel like
sex has
> become a strengthening power in our marriage instead of something
avoided.
>
>
>
> Seriously, check it out.
>
>
>
> Marni
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carle dehning

After much reading on this subject Ive decided to add my bit. My hubby loves
luxurious sex [this means that he does not like it to end] and this can be a
serious issue after 10hrs of my body being pushed and pulled around buy a 3
and 5 yr old.
By the end of many days I honestly feel that my body need some re coop
'down' time. [to be left alone]

My solution is simple I set some 'rules'
1] heh... don't ask after 10h30 at night!
2] When I am tired respect this, that in its self is sexy [for the next day]
3] Sometimes I don't feel like hours of intimacy, so quickies are great AND
defined as such! [no changing your mind 10min into it!!!!]
4] Oh if you want to entice me DONT be direct [verbally or physically] -
make me want it!!!
5] When I am tense a massage relaxes me and, well, a relaxed me is a sexy
me!

I have introduced these over the last several years [one at a time -of
course] And he has responded favourably to it although initially he felt a
little offended and thought I did not enjoy sex any more. Well now he has a
great marital bed and he thinks he is the stud!

Hope this gives you some additional ideas. Our sex life has definitely
improved as we both feel honoured and validated.

good Luck
Carle
--
ENVIRONMENTAL HOMESCHOOLING
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnvironmentalHomeschooling/?yguid=317855850
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]