Justine Sumchick

Hi all! I've been around for years actually but am trying to distance myself
online from my/my kids identities just out of not worrying about linking to
my professional life or my kids' future embarrassment.
I am a waffler. I have always had a relatively unschoolish approach to my
parenting. Whether the kids were in school or homeschooling (this is our
3rd year) they haven't had set bedtimes, restrictions on tv or video games,
etc. We are a close, tightly knit family. The kids are 17 (in school
purely by choice), 12 and 8. We school at home, although flexibly. I go
through phases of thinking unschooling is a perfect idea (when I run across
Sandra Dodd's writings, when I check in to the old email lists, etc.)
During those phases I am more tuned in to my kids, more peaceful in
general.

Here are my problems. The kids are very "school smart" and they know it.
I'm afraid they put a lot of value in that part of them (definitely my
fault as that's where I found my value, and my parents before them; also I
am naturally very proud of them and genuinely praise their abilities, in all
areas not just academic!). I think they would feel very badly about
themselves if they did 'fall behind' where they thought they should be
(which is 'ahead'). On the other hand, neither of them has lost their love
of learning whatsoever despite being in school and school-at-home their
whole lives. They read voraciously, online and off; they love reading
history and learning about science. They know a ton, most of which they
haven't learned in school. They both research whatever they don't know. My
12 y.o. practically lives in wikipedia sometimes. So I know they would be
learning, and they would know it. I guess my only concern is math (I know
how typical). They are both advanced in math, very good at it, and
beginning to hate it. I don't want them to hate it, but I don't want them
to feel stupid or even just not-smart either.

I work full time from home, and I love my career. It is very rewarding and
it pays well. I have always felt that I would never be able to put in the
time and effort necessary to unschool properly. I recently changed
positions and companies and feel much more available (not in terms of time,
but energy and effort; I'm in a creativity-inducing job instead of
creativity-sucking). They are on an extended Christmas vacation at the
moment, which began on Monday when my 12 y.o. started crying about doing his
algebra. He was obviously just burnt out. So we quit. I talked with him
about what parts of his school work he enjoys, and would he like to change
the setup he is in and just do his own thing. He said no, but he did ask to
have Christmas vacation start early. So we did. I'm considering what to do
come January. I *do* know that learning occurs when it is desired by the
learner. I know also that certain processes only come easily from practice;
and will come from practice whether it's desired or not.

My husband and I both work in education. We both have graduate degrees, and
the kids have seen our progress through college (especially the older 2, but
even the youngest remembers some of it). I wonder if it is even possible
for us to move toward unschooling when schooling has been such an emphasis
in our lives!

Any thoughts?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amy

I think it takes baby steps for some of us. I was going to college to
become a teacher (so that I could be near my kids more) when we
started to homeschool. I too have had a hard time letting go of the
traditionaly accepted view of education. It may be a little like
being a parent, by the time they move out you think your ready to be
one.
As for the math problem, you might check out this web site:
http://www.livingmath.net/
I'm thinking of getting a few of the books they have and strewing
them for my 13yr. old son. He just isn't interested in math. I
think it might be because he has been given an artifical version of
it through textbooks and workbooks.
Also noticing math in all the things around you is good. My son
recently helped his dad build a dog house and a well house. He had
to do a lot of figuring and measuring.
Just setting up a table layout for a reception requires math skills.
My husband enjoyed pointing this out to the kids as we were setting
up tables for my daughters wedding reception. Math is all around
us. Sometimes people just need to understand the relivance and the
need for them to understand it, to get it.
Be sure and check out the website it's really interesting.
You can tell by my grammar and spelling that I didn't finish my
college education. Although, I have continued to learn a lot over
the years in the things I'm most interested in.
Learning to UNschool,
Amy

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Justine Sumchick"
<justsumchik@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all! I've been around for years actually but am trying to
distance myself
> online from my/my kids identities just out of not worrying about
linking to
> my professional life or my kids' future embarrassment.

Isn't it in the parental handbooks that we are supposed to be an
embarrassment to our kids? ;-) (Seriously, I don't think my son
thinks of me that way, and he is a newly minted 16 yo, so by now,
would think that if he was going to!)


> I am a waffler.

Yum, I like waffles. Oh, waffler, not one-who-makes-waffles. Right.
Yeah, I knew that...



>
> Here are my problems. The kids are very "school smart" and they
know it.
> I'm afraid they put a lot of value in that part of them (definitely my
> fault as that's where I found my value, and my parents before them;
also I
> am naturally very proud of them and genuinely praise their
abilities, in all
> areas not just academic!).


I don't see that as a problem -- if they value that aspect of
themselves, that's fine. Do they also see the value of the other
aspects of themselves as well, -- compassion, humor, whatever?

Or do they find their identity from their school-smarts? Because,
hopefully, they will see themselves as far more than that!



> They are on an extended Christmas vacation at the
> moment, which began on Monday when my 12 y.o. started crying about
doing his
> algebra. He was obviously just burnt out. So we quit. I talked
with him
> about what parts of his school work he enjoys, and would he like to
change
> the setup he is in and just do his own thing. He said no, but he
did ask to
> have Christmas vacation start early. So we did. I'm considering
what to do
> come January.

There is nothing wrong with taking a break. Maybe hold off until your
ds says he wants to start back on algebra.

We took an entire year off of doing math (other than what was a
natural part of chemistry, which ds was then learning, and that was
just very basic algebra stuff, which was past stuff for him) -- it
didn't seem to hurt him in the least. But he had wanted the break. I
think it actually gave him more interest in it later, when he returned
to math.

Perhaps you can find more interesting, fun activities, if he wants to
continue with math, but not that program. It was a while back, but my
recollection is that there is a game of sorts with algebra involved
on-line. It was quite a number of years ago that we played it, so I
can't remember what it was... but search, and you may find it, or
other, better resources that your ds might find fun and engaging.

There is no one right path -- there are many ways to get where you/he
are going. Be careful not to lock yourself into an identity (for self
or child). It may be too constraining.

I always thought my son would go into physics -- he asks those sort of
questions, still ponders many of them. But he is sure he wants to go
into computer programming. I have kept my mouth shut about physics,
because the last thing I want to do is force him into my perception of
who he is. He may always ask those kinds of questions to ponder, but
perhaps he doesn't want to actually find definitive answers. That's okay.

Best of luck on finding the approach that works for y'all.

Linda

Justine Sumchick

On 12/15/07, trektheory <trektheory@...> wrote:
>
>
> I don't see that as a problem -- if they value that aspect of
> themselves, that's fine. Do they also see the value of the other
> aspects of themselves as well, -- compassion, humor, whatever?
>
> Or do they find their identity from their school-smarts? Because,
> hopefully, they will see themselves as far more than that!
>









Yes, they do value other aspects of themselves. I don't think that's where
they find their identity; I certainly hope not!


>
> There is nothing wrong with taking a break. Maybe hold off until your
> ds says he wants to start back on algebra.
>
> We took an entire year off of doing math (other than what was a
> natural part of chemistry, which ds was then learning, and that was
> just very basic algebra stuff, which was past stuff for him) -- it
> didn't seem to hurt him in the least. But he had wanted the break. I
> think it actually gave him more interest in it later, when he returned
> to math.
>




Perhaps you can find more interesting, fun activities, if he wants to
> continue with math, but not that program. It was a while back, but my
> recollection is that there is a game of sorts with algebra involved
> on-line. It was quite a number of years ago that we played it, so I
> can't remember what it was... but search, and you may find it, or
> other, better resources that your ds might find fun and engaging.
>
> There is no one right path -- there are many ways to get where you/he
> are going. Be careful not to lock yourself into an identity (for self
> or child). It may be too constraining.
>
> I always thought my son would go into physics -- he asks those sort of
> questions, still ponders many of them. But he is sure he wants to go
> into computer programming. I have kept my mouth shut about physics,
> because the last thing I want to do is force him into my perception of
> who he is. He may always ask those kinds of questions to ponder, but
> perhaps he doesn't want to actually find definitive answers. That's okay.
>
> Best of luck on finding the approach that works for y'all.
>
> Linda
>































Yes, I definitely don't want to be locked in to anything, and don't want
them to feel locked in either. Now is the easy time; it's when 'school' is
supposed to be starting back up that I'm not entirely sure what to do/say.
I know they will eventually want to learn advanced math; the 8 y.o. wants
to be a chemist and the 12 y.o. wants to be a programmer or a history
teacher. Either way, college and math will be required. Not that they
won't change their minds a hundred times before then.

Thanks for the feedback!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Justine Sumchick

Thanks, Amy! I am familiar with the Living Math site. Some of the books
are good, and games are always a great idea. They definitely aren't enough
for someone to learn all of basic math, but can provide a decent foundation
for when they do learn it. I know they are aware of math in real life; as
fairly math-y people, we talk about numbers and math fairly often. They
actually both enjoy and are fascinated by math; they both hate doing random
meaningless problems (shocking, eh?)
Also, I could *NOT* tell by your grammar or spelling whether you finished
college or not. In fact, I don't think they teach grammar OR spelling in
college typically lol. Regardless, yours were better than many college
grads I know, so don't knock yourself :)

Sarah

On 12/15/07, Amy <amyj@...> wrote:
>
> I think it takes baby steps for some of us. I was going to college to
> become a teacher (so that I could be near my kids more) when we
> started to homeschool. I too have had a hard time letting go of the
> traditionaly accepted view of education. It may be a little like
> being a parent, by the time they move out you think your ready to be
> one.
> As for the math problem, you might check out this web site:
> http://www.livingmath.net/
> I'm thinking of getting a few of the books they have and strewing
> them for my 13yr. old son. He just isn't interested in math. I
> think it might be because he has been given an artifical version of
> it through textbooks and workbooks.
> Also noticing math in all the things around you is good. My son
> recently helped his dad build a dog house and a well house. He had
> to do a lot of figuring and measuring.
> Just setting up a table layout for a reception requires math skills.
> My husband enjoyed pointing this out to the kids as we were setting
> up tables for my daughters wedding reception. Math is all around
> us. Sometimes people just need to understand the relivance and the
> need for them to understand it, to get it.
> Be sure and check out the website it's really interesting.
> You can tell by my grammar and spelling that I didn't finish my
> college education. Although, I have continued to learn a lot over
> the years in the things I'm most interested in.
> Learning to UNschool,
> Amy
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]