Cleaning and Respect
mscloudlady
My husband and I just read the Mutual Respect threads. What and
exciting morning. My husband starts with "I really have an open mind
but..." Why don't my children have to respect me (not throw cheerios
on the floor, leaving dishes with food on the table, etc.)
Cleaning is hard for me. I don't find joy in it (I think it is just my
own stubborn rebellion). My husband and I are just beginning to let go
of our own conditioning but man it is hard! It is really easy to slip
back to "I told you to do it!".
Any suggestions for the nitty gritty of letting go of our
preconditions. Can we ask them to do things to help out? My husbands
question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them to help with
the chores in the morning?" (my kids would love this!)
We are on our journey and would love encouragement and constructive
criticism.
Thanks
Elizabeth
exciting morning. My husband starts with "I really have an open mind
but..." Why don't my children have to respect me (not throw cheerios
on the floor, leaving dishes with food on the table, etc.)
Cleaning is hard for me. I don't find joy in it (I think it is just my
own stubborn rebellion). My husband and I are just beginning to let go
of our own conditioning but man it is hard! It is really easy to slip
back to "I told you to do it!".
Any suggestions for the nitty gritty of letting go of our
preconditions. Can we ask them to do things to help out? My husbands
question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them to help with
the chores in the morning?" (my kids would love this!)
We are on our journey and would love encouragement and constructive
criticism.
Thanks
Elizabeth
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 12, 2007, at 9:34 AM, mscloudlady wrote:
*But* it needs to be a true question. You need to be as okay with
"no" as with "yes".
You model respect for them when you value their judgement of whether
something is worth their own time. The more they see you honoring and
respecting them, the sooner they will return it (as they are
developmentally able to!)
While it would be more convenient for the adults if the kids did help
out, the kids are in essence being treated as conscripted labor.
Parents create the world they want to give to their children. Gifts
shouldn't come with strings or they aren't gifts! If you wanted to
give a farm-life childhood to your kids as a gift, then don't attach
strings to it. If you had kids specifically to lighten your load,
then you should be honest about that and accept that you're going to
need to steal from your relationship with them in order to get them
to do chores.
That said, some people have the gift of projecting the "We're all in
this together attitude," and the kids do feel a part of the team. But
you can't get there by making them, or dumping chores on them.
If you maintain ownership of the chores and treat help as you would
help from a friend, it fosters better relationships and you become
someone your children want to help. "Here's what I want to do today.
Why don't you come along and help out so it will get done sooner and
we can do something together."
If you read here:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Probably "Respect", "Chores" and "Commitments, obligations,
responsibilities" will help you understand what I'm talking about.
Joyce
> Can we ask them to do things to help out?Absolutely! Not only can you, but you should.
*But* it needs to be a true question. You need to be as okay with
"no" as with "yes".
You model respect for them when you value their judgement of whether
something is worth their own time. The more they see you honoring and
respecting them, the sooner they will return it (as they are
developmentally able to!)
> My husbandsWho took care of the hypothetical farm before the kids came along?
> question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them to help with
> the chores in the morning?" (my kids would love this!)
While it would be more convenient for the adults if the kids did help
out, the kids are in essence being treated as conscripted labor.
Parents create the world they want to give to their children. Gifts
shouldn't come with strings or they aren't gifts! If you wanted to
give a farm-life childhood to your kids as a gift, then don't attach
strings to it. If you had kids specifically to lighten your load,
then you should be honest about that and accept that you're going to
need to steal from your relationship with them in order to get them
to do chores.
That said, some people have the gift of projecting the "We're all in
this together attitude," and the kids do feel a part of the team. But
you can't get there by making them, or dumping chores on them.
If you maintain ownership of the chores and treat help as you would
help from a friend, it fosters better relationships and you become
someone your children want to help. "Here's what I want to do today.
Why don't you come along and help out so it will get done sooner and
we can do something together."
If you read here:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Probably "Respect", "Chores" and "Commitments, obligations,
responsibilities" will help you understand what I'm talking about.
Joyce
Robert Saxon
> My husbandsThis brings up a question in my mind. I've only met y'all (well, most of
> question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them to help with
> the chores in the morning?" (my kids would love this!)
y'all) online, so I have no idea what anyone else does. Who here lives on a
farm, a working farm? Dairy? Crops? Something else? Your very livelihood
depends on growing/raising stuff and selling it. How has unschooling AND
living on a farm worked out? How do you implement the philosophy of RU into
everyday parenting? I would love more nitty-gritty on this.
--Rob
DH to Seana for (almost) 11 years!
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (now 6!) and Elissa (4 and seven-twelfths, and not a
twelfth less!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/12/2007 10:18:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
TheSaxons@... writes:
Who here lives on a
farm, a working farm? Dairy? Crops? Something else?
__________________
I have always wanted to. I used to dream of it. I want to make it real one
day.
Karen (in So. Cal)
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TheSaxons@... writes:
Who here lives on a
farm, a working farm? Dairy? Crops? Something else?
__________________
I have always wanted to. I used to dream of it. I want to make it real one
day.
Karen (in So. Cal)
**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
cheerful, "Sure." Or, if he is engrossed at the moment, "When I'm
done here." (I would never expect him to drop everything for a
request - unless it was something urgent and dangerous! - anymore than
I would want either dh or ds to expect that of me.)
The cool thing is that it generally feels good to help others, to do
something productive.
help your child with something, or just do it. I often carry some of
ds's chainmaille stuff out to the car (he likes to work on it while we
are going places), since I have more available hands than he might at
the time.
Cooperative living is so much more peaceful than dictatorial living!
Linda
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>And, fwiw, whenever I ask my ds for help, he generally gives me a
>
> On Dec 12, 2007, at 9:34 AM, mscloudlady wrote:
>
> > Can we ask them to do things to help out?
>
> Absolutely! Not only can you, but you should.
>
> *But* it needs to be a true question. You need to be as okay with
> "no" as with "yes".
>
cheerful, "Sure." Or, if he is engrossed at the moment, "When I'm
done here." (I would never expect him to drop everything for a
request - unless it was something urgent and dangerous! - anymore than
I would want either dh or ds to expect that of me.)
The cool thing is that it generally feels good to help others, to do
something productive.
> You model respect for them when you value their judgement of whetherAnother good thing to model is just general helpfulness. Offer to
> something is worth their own time. The more they see you honoring and
> respecting them, the sooner they will return it (as they are
> developmentally able to!)
help your child with something, or just do it. I often carry some of
ds's chainmaille stuff out to the car (he likes to work on it while we
are going places), since I have more available hands than he might at
the time.
Cooperative living is so much more peaceful than dictatorial living!
Linda
Ren Allen
~~Who here lives on a farm, a working farm? Dairy? Crops? Something
else? Your very livelihood depends on growing/raising stuff and
selling it. How has unschooling AND living on a farm worked out? How
do you implement the philosophy of RU into everyday parenting?~~
Not on a farm....yet. But I know more than one RU family that
homesteads or farms. Danielle Conger (who might pipe up here) has a
mini-farm and you can check out her lovely online Ezine "Connections".
She can be found at http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/.
The Contrary Goddess is a hard working RU mama who can be found here:
http://contrarygoddess.blogspot.com/
I think in her case, the kids have grown up with the idea that they
are reliant on the food they grow and animals they raise (because they
truly ARE) and so their contributions are necessary and valuable. If a
child knows a parent is there to help them, is on their side and
willing to work with their preferences it works a lot better. Anyhoo,
I'm sure you can find a lot of examples of mindful parenting and farming.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
else? Your very livelihood depends on growing/raising stuff and
selling it. How has unschooling AND living on a farm worked out? How
do you implement the philosophy of RU into everyday parenting?~~
Not on a farm....yet. But I know more than one RU family that
homesteads or farms. Danielle Conger (who might pipe up here) has a
mini-farm and you can check out her lovely online Ezine "Connections".
She can be found at http://danielleconger.organiclearning.org/.
The Contrary Goddess is a hard working RU mama who can be found here:
http://contrarygoddess.blogspot.com/
I think in her case, the kids have grown up with the idea that they
are reliant on the food they grow and animals they raise (because they
truly ARE) and so their contributions are necessary and valuable. If a
child knows a parent is there to help them, is on their side and
willing to work with their preferences it works a lot better. Anyhoo,
I'm sure you can find a lot of examples of mindful parenting and farming.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "mscloudlady"
<cloudlady@...> wrote:
respect to mean that we want children or someone to obey us which
isn't really respect.
How old are these children?
If they are young you could turn it into a game and then playfully
clean up the floor?
it as a choice- nobody is going to make anyone do it but you can
choose to do it.
My husband and I are just beginning to let go
<cloudlady@...> wrote:
>mind
> My husband and I just read the Mutual Respect threads. What and
> exciting morning. My husband starts with "I really have an open
> but..." Why don't my children have to respect me (not throwcheerios
> on the floor, leaving dishes with food on the table, etc.)these things have nothing really to do with respect- we tend to use
respect to mean that we want children or someone to obey us which
isn't really respect.
How old are these children?
If they are young you could turn it into a game and then playfully
clean up the floor?
>just my
> Cleaning is hard for me. I don't find joy in it (I think it is
> own stubborn rebellion).exactly and until you CAN find joy in it they will not either. See
it as a choice- nobody is going to make anyone do it but you can
choose to do it.
My husband and I are just beginning to let go
> of our own conditioning but man it is hard! It is really easy toslip
> back to "I told you to do it!".My husbands
>
> Any suggestions for the nitty gritty of letting go of our
> preconditions. Can we ask them to do things to help out?
> question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them to helpwith
> the chores in the morning?" (my kids would love this!)constructive
>
> We are on our journey and would love encouragement and
> criticism.
>
> Thanks
> Elizabeth
>
Danielle Conger
Robert Saxon wrote:
my answer may not be in line with what you're looking for.
We moved here about 2.5 years ago from suburbia, and our goal (or more
specifically *my* goal) was to homestead. We do not support ourselves
with our farm; my husband works and that money is what we use to pay the
bills.
This past year, I've begun to try to earn some money from our farm in
order, basically, to cover food costs for our family, which is
money-making of a sort. We have a very small CSA (subscription garden),
and we raise free-range meats. Another goal of mine has been for this to
offer a business opportunity for the kids if/ when they want it. This
has meant reworking our finances a bit to be able to "pay" them for
their work time since indoor help has always been optional and not tied
to their budget. Outdoor work is still totally optional, but it carries
with it the opportunity to make "extra" money on top of their regular
part of the family budget.
While I don't require the kids' help in anyway, it still affects my
everyday parenting because there are things *I* must get done to keep
things running smoothly, which makes me less available at these times
than others. I try to do much of my work outside of my parenting hours
(i.e. before the kids wake up in the morning), but there's always enough
work to be done that it's not always possible. This has offered the kids
opportunities to do things on their own while I'm out in the fields and
just a shout away, creating a really safe atmosphere for them to explore
their own independence and self-sufficiency in their own ways. It also
offers some really nice one on one time with the kids when one of them
chooses to come out and work with me, as well as some great outdoor time
for all of us when we're all outside together.
The kids love our life. I love our life. Farming, at least with the
luxury of an outside income, isn't at all contrary to RU philosophy,
I've found. I'm happy to answer specific questions if this isn't quite
what you were getting at.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (10), Julia (8), Sam (7)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>We live on a small farm, but not one like you seem to be envisioning, so
> This brings up a question in my mind. I've only met y'all (well, most of
> y'all) online, so I have no idea what anyone else does. Who here lives
> on a
> farm, a working farm? Dairy? Crops? Something else? Your very livelihood
> depends on growing/raising stuff and selling it. How has unschooling AND
> living on a farm worked out? How do you implement the philosophy of RU
> into everyday parenting? I would love more nitty-gritty on this.
>
my answer may not be in line with what you're looking for.
We moved here about 2.5 years ago from suburbia, and our goal (or more
specifically *my* goal) was to homestead. We do not support ourselves
with our farm; my husband works and that money is what we use to pay the
bills.
This past year, I've begun to try to earn some money from our farm in
order, basically, to cover food costs for our family, which is
money-making of a sort. We have a very small CSA (subscription garden),
and we raise free-range meats. Another goal of mine has been for this to
offer a business opportunity for the kids if/ when they want it. This
has meant reworking our finances a bit to be able to "pay" them for
their work time since indoor help has always been optional and not tied
to their budget. Outdoor work is still totally optional, but it carries
with it the opportunity to make "extra" money on top of their regular
part of the family budget.
While I don't require the kids' help in anyway, it still affects my
everyday parenting because there are things *I* must get done to keep
things running smoothly, which makes me less available at these times
than others. I try to do much of my work outside of my parenting hours
(i.e. before the kids wake up in the morning), but there's always enough
work to be done that it's not always possible. This has offered the kids
opportunities to do things on their own while I'm out in the fields and
just a shout away, creating a really safe atmosphere for them to explore
their own independence and self-sufficiency in their own ways. It also
offers some really nice one on one time with the kids when one of them
chooses to come out and work with me, as well as some great outdoor time
for all of us when we're all outside together.
The kids love our life. I love our life. Farming, at least with the
luxury of an outside income, isn't at all contrary to RU philosophy,
I've found. I'm happy to answer specific questions if this isn't quite
what you were getting at.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (10), Julia (8), Sam (7)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: mscloudlady <cloudlady@...>
My husband and I just read the Mutual Respect threads. What and
exciting morning. My husband starts with "I really have an open mind
but..." Why don't my children have to respect me (not throw cheerios
on the floor, leaving dishes with food on the table, etc.)
-=-=-=-=-
How old are your children?
Respect has nothing to do with obedience.
And cleaning is just not important to small children.
-=-=-=-=-
Cleaning is hard for me. I don't find joy in it (I think it is just my
own stubborn rebellion).
-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---but who, do you think, is capable of changing your attitude
about cleaning? Your kids? Your neighbor?
Who should take responsibility for your attitude?
Do you want to foster that same attitude in your children? The I HATE
HOUSEWORK attitude? Wouldn't you love for them to see how pleasant
housework can be? How do you think that would work? By telling them how
much you hate it? Why would they choose to do something so heinous?
Would taking pleasure it in kill you? Do you think a positive attitude
about cleaning might possibly rub off on your children?
Did your mother hate housecleaning? Did she make you do it?
How did you come to hate it so much? Do you want the same for your
kids? And your grandkids? How would you go about changing it? What
small steps could you take toDAY?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My husband and I are just beginning to let go
of our own conditioning but man it is hard! It is really easy to slip
back to "I told you to do it!".
-=-=-=-=-
Sure it is! That's what deep breaths and a positive attitude can change
though.
What if I said, "I told you to do it!"? Would that change how you
approached it? Would you feel better about it if I just did it happily
and joyfully---without bothering you? Would you wonder just what *was*
so much fun about cleaning? <BWG>
It's not easy. And it's exhausting at first. But the more you do it,
the easier it gets. Promise.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Any suggestions for the nitty gritty of letting go of our
preconditions. Can we ask them to do things to help out?
-=-=-=-=-
Is it a QUESTION??????
What if they say NO? Are you willing to take that as an answer? 'Cause
a real question can be answered honestly with a "yes" or a "no" or a
"maybe later" or a "in a minute." ALL valid answers to the questions,
"Can you help me?" and "Will you do this?"
Are you willing to take "no" as an answer for a really long time?
Happily and joyfully---no strings attached?
I've found that "Can you help_____?" is a better question than "Will
you DO____?" at first. Most are willing to *HELP* a little bit.
But "no" needs to be a valid answer.
-=-=-=-=-=-
My husbands question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them
to help with
the chores in the morning?"
-=-=-=-=-=-
Do you live on a farm? If not, it's a hypothetical.
'Cause there would be more questions attached to that---like, did they
ask to have/live on a farm?
-=-=-=-=-=-
(my kids would love this!)
-=-=-=-=-
yeah---maybe. <g> It's a lot of work. They might help out for a while,
but they're kids. It might not last long.
But if you're having a hard time accepting and demonstrating to them
that housework is *play*, I doubt you would do that great a job
convincing them that farmwork is play! <G>
Forget the farm labor! Start ENJOYING the housework you have
already---really! Be grateful that you have dishes to wash and clothes
to fold and floors to mop and precious children to pick up after. Let
them see how you appreciate what you *have* NOW! They're seeing
drudgery through *your * eyes. Let them see JOY! It starts with YOU!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: mscloudlady <cloudlady@...>
My husband and I just read the Mutual Respect threads. What and
exciting morning. My husband starts with "I really have an open mind
but..." Why don't my children have to respect me (not throw cheerios
on the floor, leaving dishes with food on the table, etc.)
-=-=-=-=-
How old are your children?
Respect has nothing to do with obedience.
And cleaning is just not important to small children.
-=-=-=-=-
Cleaning is hard for me. I don't find joy in it (I think it is just my
own stubborn rebellion).
-=-=-=-=-
Yeah---but who, do you think, is capable of changing your attitude
about cleaning? Your kids? Your neighbor?
Who should take responsibility for your attitude?
Do you want to foster that same attitude in your children? The I HATE
HOUSEWORK attitude? Wouldn't you love for them to see how pleasant
housework can be? How do you think that would work? By telling them how
much you hate it? Why would they choose to do something so heinous?
Would taking pleasure it in kill you? Do you think a positive attitude
about cleaning might possibly rub off on your children?
Did your mother hate housecleaning? Did she make you do it?
How did you come to hate it so much? Do you want the same for your
kids? And your grandkids? How would you go about changing it? What
small steps could you take toDAY?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My husband and I are just beginning to let go
of our own conditioning but man it is hard! It is really easy to slip
back to "I told you to do it!".
-=-=-=-=-
Sure it is! That's what deep breaths and a positive attitude can change
though.
What if I said, "I told you to do it!"? Would that change how you
approached it? Would you feel better about it if I just did it happily
and joyfully---without bothering you? Would you wonder just what *was*
so much fun about cleaning? <BWG>
It's not easy. And it's exhausting at first. But the more you do it,
the easier it gets. Promise.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Any suggestions for the nitty gritty of letting go of our
preconditions. Can we ask them to do things to help out?
-=-=-=-=-
Is it a QUESTION??????
What if they say NO? Are you willing to take that as an answer? 'Cause
a real question can be answered honestly with a "yes" or a "no" or a
"maybe later" or a "in a minute." ALL valid answers to the questions,
"Can you help me?" and "Will you do this?"
Are you willing to take "no" as an answer for a really long time?
Happily and joyfully---no strings attached?
I've found that "Can you help_____?" is a better question than "Will
you DO____?" at first. Most are willing to *HELP* a little bit.
But "no" needs to be a valid answer.
-=-=-=-=-=-
My husbands question "What if we lived on the farm and we needed them
to help with
the chores in the morning?"
-=-=-=-=-=-
Do you live on a farm? If not, it's a hypothetical.
'Cause there would be more questions attached to that---like, did they
ask to have/live on a farm?
-=-=-=-=-=-
(my kids would love this!)
-=-=-=-=-
yeah---maybe. <g> It's a lot of work. They might help out for a while,
but they're kids. It might not last long.
But if you're having a hard time accepting and demonstrating to them
that housework is *play*, I doubt you would do that great a job
convincing them that farmwork is play! <G>
Forget the farm labor! Start ENJOYING the housework you have
already---really! Be grateful that you have dishes to wash and clothes
to fold and floors to mop and precious children to pick up after. Let
them see how you appreciate what you *have* NOW! They're seeing
drudgery through *your * eyes. Let them see JOY! It starts with YOU!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com