help with "losing my child" to WOW
Amie
I am just looking for some ideas and I guess maybe some reassurance. My son,
who is 10 plays World of Warcraft nearly 12 hours a day. From the time he
gets up until the time he goes to bed, he is sitting at the computer. He
gets up to eat (sometimes), and to use the bathroom. I sometimes bring him
food. I try to look at it as a passion. For the most part, I am able to do
this, but some days the doubt really creeps in. One problem is that he never
wants to go anywhere with us as a family. It is a struggle almost every
time. My other son was in tears the other day telling me that he does not
think it is fair that Eric gets to "decide if we can go anywhere". This
feels pretty close to the truth for me. Most times we want to go somewhere,
we have to wait until me or my husband are both here so that one of us can
stay here, and one go with Sam. He is not quite to the age that he can stay
home alone, and when that happens, I feel like he will be even more
isolated. I miss going places together. He has been passionate about it
since the conference. He was playing some before then, but he would also go
places sometimes with us, he would skateboard, and have some other
interests. I am worried that he would rather be in the make believe world
than in the real world. The only reason I say that is that he started to
show some signs of depression before he started WOW. We are using
homeopathy, and he seemed to improve, but even this is difficult to tell,
because I really don't have a lot of time to just sit and chat with him. If
I sit with him while he plays, we talk about WOW. I really can see how much
he has learned by playing this, and he has met some friends on line, and one
in real life, but I just get worried. And, I have to say frustrated
sometimes feeling like a prisoner here. Most times I can get my mindset so
that I am ok with it, but then I will hardly see him all day, and start to
worry again. I know there are a lot of positives here, but I just need some
other perspectives.
Thank you!
Amie
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come
alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have
come alive." ~Harold Whitman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
who is 10 plays World of Warcraft nearly 12 hours a day. From the time he
gets up until the time he goes to bed, he is sitting at the computer. He
gets up to eat (sometimes), and to use the bathroom. I sometimes bring him
food. I try to look at it as a passion. For the most part, I am able to do
this, but some days the doubt really creeps in. One problem is that he never
wants to go anywhere with us as a family. It is a struggle almost every
time. My other son was in tears the other day telling me that he does not
think it is fair that Eric gets to "decide if we can go anywhere". This
feels pretty close to the truth for me. Most times we want to go somewhere,
we have to wait until me or my husband are both here so that one of us can
stay here, and one go with Sam. He is not quite to the age that he can stay
home alone, and when that happens, I feel like he will be even more
isolated. I miss going places together. He has been passionate about it
since the conference. He was playing some before then, but he would also go
places sometimes with us, he would skateboard, and have some other
interests. I am worried that he would rather be in the make believe world
than in the real world. The only reason I say that is that he started to
show some signs of depression before he started WOW. We are using
homeopathy, and he seemed to improve, but even this is difficult to tell,
because I really don't have a lot of time to just sit and chat with him. If
I sit with him while he plays, we talk about WOW. I really can see how much
he has learned by playing this, and he has met some friends on line, and one
in real life, but I just get worried. And, I have to say frustrated
sometimes feeling like a prisoner here. Most times I can get my mindset so
that I am ok with it, but then I will hardly see him all day, and start to
worry again. I know there are a lot of positives here, but I just need some
other perspectives.
Thank you!
Amie
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come
alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have
come alive." ~Harold Whitman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jesse Suckow Crowell
How long has this been going on? As a player of MMORPG's (incl WoW) I can
tell you that (for me anyway, with the first MMORPG that I played )there was
a big hook in the beginning when you really do want to play all the time,
they are such an engaging games. I wasn't able to play all day (job), but
seriously I probably would have if I could have for months. There is a rich
online community which is rather unique in games. After that, the newness
wore down and it became more of a grind in some ways. Our family of 4
plays WoW together now which has been a fun new way of experiencing
teamwork. It definitely gives us all sorts of topics to discuss including
tolerance, tactics, and just how fun that last instance run was.
I wish I could help more. I can understand how frustrating it must be when
the rest of you want to be engaged in other things away from the house and
can't go because of this. Have you considered a babysitter? Have you told
him that you miss him (in a non guilty way, but honestly)?
Jess
tell you that (for me anyway, with the first MMORPG that I played )there was
a big hook in the beginning when you really do want to play all the time,
they are such an engaging games. I wasn't able to play all day (job), but
seriously I probably would have if I could have for months. There is a rich
online community which is rather unique in games. After that, the newness
wore down and it became more of a grind in some ways. Our family of 4
plays WoW together now which has been a fun new way of experiencing
teamwork. It definitely gives us all sorts of topics to discuss including
tolerance, tactics, and just how fun that last instance run was.
I wish I could help more. I can understand how frustrating it must be when
the rest of you want to be engaged in other things away from the house and
can't go because of this. Have you considered a babysitter? Have you told
him that you miss him (in a non guilty way, but honestly)?
Jess
On Dec 9, 2007 12:04 AM, Amie <amiersa2@...> wrote:
> I am just looking for some ideas and I guess maybe some reassurance. My
> son,
> who is 10 plays World of Warcraft nearly 12 hours a day. From the time he
> gets up until the time he goes to bed, he is sitting at the computer. He
> gets up to eat (sometimes), and to use the bathroom. I sometimes bring him
> food. I try to look at it as a passion. For the most part, I am able to do
> this, but some days the doubt really creeps in. One problem is that he
> never
> wants to go anywhere with us as a family. It is a struggle almost every
> time. My other son was in tears the other day telling me that he does not
> think it is fair that Eric gets to "decide if we can go anywhere". This
> feels pretty close to the truth for me. Most times we want to go
> somewhere,
> we have to wait until me or my husband are both here so that one of us can
> stay here, and one go with Sam. He is not quite to the age that he can
> stay
> home alone, and when that happens, I feel like he will be even more
> isolated. I miss going places together. He has been passionate about it
> since the conference. He was playing some before then, but he would also
> go
> places sometimes with us, he would skateboard, and have some other
> interests. I am worried that he would rather be in the make believe world
> than in the real world. The only reason I say that is that he started to
> show some signs of depression before he started WOW. We are using
> homeopathy, and he seemed to improve, but even this is difficult to tell,
> because I really don't have a lot of time to just sit and chat with him.
> If
> I sit with him while he plays, we talk about WOW. I really can see how
> much
> he has learned by playing this, and he has met some friends on line, and
> one
> in real life, but I just get worried. And, I have to say frustrated
> sometimes feeling like a prisoner here. Most times I can get my mindset so
> that I am ok with it, but then I will hardly see him all day, and start to
> worry again. I know there are a lot of positives here, but I just need
> some
> other perspectives.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Amie
>
> "Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come
> alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who
> have
> come alive." ~Harold Whitman
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Aryeh Winter-Card
Dear Amie,
I have a son who is a little younger than yours who also rarely wants to go out with us, so I can relate to your missing his presence on family outings. We usually let him stay at home if he wants, but occasionally cajole him into coming with us if it is really important to us that he come with us. I trust you know your son and if you say he is too young to be left alone at home, I believe you. But just maybe you might want to revisit that question. Our son knows our cell phone number in case he needs anything, is fully capable of preparing food for himself and taking care of himself in general, and we trust he will be fine when we go out. He does call every once in a while, sometimes to say he is bored, sometimes to tell me about a game he is playing or something he watched on TV. As for the concerns about addiction, I would try as you have been to see him as passionate and thriving rather than depressed and struggling. (I say this not only because I believe that we invariably find evidence to support any pre-existing beliefs we hold, but also with the knowledge that our children pick up on our non-verbal communication, and I'm sure you really don't want him to feel that you don't think he is O.K.)
Much love to you and your family,
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a son who is a little younger than yours who also rarely wants to go out with us, so I can relate to your missing his presence on family outings. We usually let him stay at home if he wants, but occasionally cajole him into coming with us if it is really important to us that he come with us. I trust you know your son and if you say he is too young to be left alone at home, I believe you. But just maybe you might want to revisit that question. Our son knows our cell phone number in case he needs anything, is fully capable of preparing food for himself and taking care of himself in general, and we trust he will be fine when we go out. He does call every once in a while, sometimes to say he is bored, sometimes to tell me about a game he is playing or something he watched on TV. As for the concerns about addiction, I would try as you have been to see him as passionate and thriving rather than depressed and struggling. (I say this not only because I believe that we invariably find evidence to support any pre-existing beliefs we hold, but also with the knowledge that our children pick up on our non-verbal communication, and I'm sure you really don't want him to feel that you don't think he is O.K.)
Much love to you and your family,
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Momma
My son did this also for about 8 months. And yes, I have to admit that occasionally it did bother me. The times when I was struggling with it we talked about it but mostly I just supported him in what he was doing. He started to notice that he was putting on weight and had almost no stamina and was having a hard time keeping up with his friends.
One day our computer died and had to be sent in for repairs. We were without a comp. for several days. We tried to brainstorm about other things we could do while the comp. was gone. All went well for a couple of days and then it hit the fan. He came to me crying and shaking all over uncontrollably. He wanted his WOW. He was a bit out of control of his emotions and it scared him. He couldn't understand how he was feeling. We spent hours on the couch that day cuddling and talking. He asked me to turn on the parental controls in WOW (which I didn't even know it had) when the comp. came back. We sat down and did it together with him telling me what hours he wanted to play. He stared playing again but I think that he kept that day on the couch in the back of his mind. He would mention it quite often.
A couple of months after that he was inspired by a video on utube about free running. He started getting out of the house more and practicing in the backyard. I suggested a gymnastics class since that is basically what free running is. He jumped on it. As we were trying to figure out how we would pay for the classes he suggested we cancel WOW. I was shocked. I even delayed it for a few days to see if he might change his mind. He didn't. Now he and his sister are taking a gymnastics class and loving it. It's his new passion. He even asked me to cut off his hair (it was long) because it was getting in his way when he was trying to do his gymnastics and he didn't like to tie it back. He is still on the comp. a lot but has not asked for WOW back. He has found other role playing games but jumps back and forth and never stays on one for very long. I now find him lifting weights in his room or listening to music or adding more bruises to himself it the backyard while he scales the fences. lol
In the mist of his constant WOW playing I had friends tell me that he was playing too much and I should cancel it. I'm glad I didn't. What good would that have done? He came to terms with it himself and our relationship grew stronger because of it. I was there for him through it all and he saw that. I trusted him and he was able to grow as a person in a way that he couldn't have if I had forced him to stop playing. In the end the choice was his and his alone.
Just a side note---very shortly after he stopped playing my mother in law, who is a school teacher, gave us a copy of the TAKS test for his grade level and suggested I have him take the test. I offered it to him and he wanted to take it so he did. His score was awesome. I was kind of surprised to be honest since he had just spent months playing WOW. Playing the game hadn't kept him from learning at all. In fact, I think he learned a lot from it.
I realize that our situations may be different but I just wanted to share ours with you. If you are concerned, share it with him in a non-threatening, non-judgemental way. Another thing you might consider is moving the comp. to a more central location if it's not already. We moved ours to the living room. I missed my ds when he would play so we did that so that we could talk and he could share more about his game with me. I felt more connected to his world that way. I'm sorry I can't give you more than this. All I can say is talk, talk, talk.
Aubrey
One day our computer died and had to be sent in for repairs. We were without a comp. for several days. We tried to brainstorm about other things we could do while the comp. was gone. All went well for a couple of days and then it hit the fan. He came to me crying and shaking all over uncontrollably. He wanted his WOW. He was a bit out of control of his emotions and it scared him. He couldn't understand how he was feeling. We spent hours on the couch that day cuddling and talking. He asked me to turn on the parental controls in WOW (which I didn't even know it had) when the comp. came back. We sat down and did it together with him telling me what hours he wanted to play. He stared playing again but I think that he kept that day on the couch in the back of his mind. He would mention it quite often.
A couple of months after that he was inspired by a video on utube about free running. He started getting out of the house more and practicing in the backyard. I suggested a gymnastics class since that is basically what free running is. He jumped on it. As we were trying to figure out how we would pay for the classes he suggested we cancel WOW. I was shocked. I even delayed it for a few days to see if he might change his mind. He didn't. Now he and his sister are taking a gymnastics class and loving it. It's his new passion. He even asked me to cut off his hair (it was long) because it was getting in his way when he was trying to do his gymnastics and he didn't like to tie it back. He is still on the comp. a lot but has not asked for WOW back. He has found other role playing games but jumps back and forth and never stays on one for very long. I now find him lifting weights in his room or listening to music or adding more bruises to himself it the backyard while he scales the fences. lol
In the mist of his constant WOW playing I had friends tell me that he was playing too much and I should cancel it. I'm glad I didn't. What good would that have done? He came to terms with it himself and our relationship grew stronger because of it. I was there for him through it all and he saw that. I trusted him and he was able to grow as a person in a way that he couldn't have if I had forced him to stop playing. In the end the choice was his and his alone.
Just a side note---very shortly after he stopped playing my mother in law, who is a school teacher, gave us a copy of the TAKS test for his grade level and suggested I have him take the test. I offered it to him and he wanted to take it so he did. His score was awesome. I was kind of surprised to be honest since he had just spent months playing WOW. Playing the game hadn't kept him from learning at all. In fact, I think he learned a lot from it.
I realize that our situations may be different but I just wanted to share ours with you. If you are concerned, share it with him in a non-threatening, non-judgemental way. Another thing you might consider is moving the comp. to a more central location if it's not already. We moved ours to the living room. I missed my ds when he would play so we did that so that we could talk and he could share more about his game with me. I felt more connected to his world that way. I'm sorry I can't give you more than this. All I can say is talk, talk, talk.
Aubrey
----- Original Message -----
From: Amie
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help with "losing my child" to WOW
I am just looking for some ideas and I guess maybe some reassurance. My son,
who is 10 plays World of Warcraft nearly 12 hours a day. From the time he
gets up until the time he goes to bed, he is sitting at the computer. He
gets up to eat (sometimes), and to use the bathroom. I sometimes bring him
food. I try to look at it as a passion. For the most part, I am able to do
this, but some days the doubt really creeps in. One problem is that he never
wants to go anywhere with us as a family. It is a struggle almost every
time. My other son was in tears the other day telling me that he does not
think it is fair that Eric gets to "decide if we can go anywhere". This
feels pretty close to the truth for me. Most times we want to go somewhere,
we have to wait until me or my husband are both here so that one of us can
stay here, and one go with Sam. He is not quite to the age that he can stay
home alone, and when that happens, I feel like he will be even more
isolated. I miss going places together. He has been passionate about it
since the conference. He was playing some before then, but he would also go
places sometimes with us, he would skateboard, and have some other
interests. I am worried that he would rather be in the make believe world
than in the real world. The only reason I say that is that he started to
show some signs of depression before he started WOW. We are using
homeopathy, and he seemed to improve, but even this is difficult to tell,
because I really don't have a lot of time to just sit and chat with him. If
I sit with him while he plays, we talk about WOW. I really can see how much
he has learned by playing this, and he has met some friends on line, and one
in real life, but I just get worried. And, I have to say frustrated
sometimes feeling like a prisoner here. Most times I can get my mindset so
that I am ok with it, but then I will hardly see him all day, and start to
worry again. I know there are a lot of positives here, but I just need some
other perspectives.
Thank you!
Amie
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come
alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs is people who have
come alive." ~Harold Whitman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mrs.mama21
Well, I'm usually just a lurker here, but the chats about Wow caught
my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him. I recently
joined a yahoo group for Wow widows. Search yahoo groups for "gaming
addicts" and you'll find a lot of support groups. They taught me how
to determine how much time my husband spends in-game on average per
day. It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9
hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
Gaming IS addictive. It CAN be very destructive to their lives. Wow
is a game that always has something new to do, so some people NEVER
get burnt out on it. To make things worse, they forge friendships
with their fellow gamers, and develop a sense of obligation to be
there for those people and help them with "instances" and such. They
get to the point that they would rather let down the people in their
real life than the people on the other side of that screen.
As a married woman, I beg you to do your child's possible future
spouse a favor. Teach him MODERATION. Teach him that having fun is
fine and dandy, but there are other things in life that have to come
first. Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world. Teach him to deal with real life
in CONSTRUCTIVE ways. Teach him that addiction is NOT a soloution to
anything.
You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as an
introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
cried over every night by his wife.
File: Welcome to WowWidows
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WOW_widow/
Based on the experiences of the ones who have been on this forum for
a long time, having tried everything...... In the beginning you feel
soft and vulnerable "I love him why isn't he paying any attention to
me?" Then after a while, a tiny bit of anger creeps in" This isn't
right! I should not be treated like this!", There is the
embarrassment mode "I can't tell anyone about this! it would sound
ridiculous" THen comes the various attempts to intervene - take away
the physical parts of the computer - the mouse, the keyboard, the
sound card, the cable for the modem,,,etc etc and this generally
invites ANGER from the gamer. A sense of frustration creeps in,,,"why
can't I get through to him?" then, realizing that no amount of
talking or negotiating with him will improve the situation, you
decide to confide in a few close friends, who, not understanding the
seriousness of the addiction, just laugh it off and say, "just
disconnect the internet" or some such non-helpful advice. You start
to look on the internet for information about this problem. You find
this group, and others. You read and read and read and you are
horrified by what you read. Then you think, "well, my gamer isn't as
bad as THOSE people".....but yet, .... Then more attempts to
negotiate deals on playing time, etc, Deals are made, but always
broken. They don't last. Gamer goes back to his old ways.... You
think, "I am getting nowhere". "Why do I feel so alone?" In the first
place, one of the reasons you feel alone is because you are depending
on someone else to make you happy. This is a common theme here, and
it takes a long time for a wow widow to realize that you have to be a
whole person on your own before you can enter into any kind of
partnership. People who are selfconfident and have some respect for
themselves, their abilities and their place in the world would never
in a million years put up with a partner like this. So then, you
think, I have to start looking after me. You start to go out with
friends, first it's just for coffee, then another time dinner, then
another time a whole evening, then after a while a whole weekend away
with friends...You think "He will notice I am gone'. He doesn't. It
just gives him more time to play without being nagged at. But you
continue to go out, and after a while, you begin to enjoy yourself
without him. Then you think "He is a big loser and is missing out on
life. He can do that if he wants, but I am going to have fun
anyway. " So you end up leading separate lives, in a way, because he
will not go to weddings, parties, out for dinner with friends, or
anywhere socially that you might consider normal. If you do get him
to go out, he will demand that he has to be back for an
important "raid" and insists on leaving before the event has come to
an end. You feel cheated. You begin to think "is there something
wrong with me? am I too fat? and I just a nag now?" So you carry on
living life on your own, and begin to wonder just why do you have him
in your life. You remember when he was fun, and you think "If only he
could just be who he used to be!" or,,"The real him is under there
somewhere!" Slowly it dawns on you "he must have a problem. He is
depressed or something" You ask him to go see a doctor or therapist
or somebody. He won't. He will not admit to having a problem. It is
just a hobby, he says. You start to get sarcastic "Some hobby! " you
say. "I'd like to have 16 hours a day to spend on my hobby!" Anger
returns. He won't cooperate at all. You start to wonder if it's all
worth it. You start making plans to leave. You wonder what you are
doing there, and why it took you so long to see that he just doesn't
love you anymore. He loves his game more. He finds out you are
thinking about leaving,. He makes an effort. He plays a bit less. You
have second thoughts. You stay. Everything goes back to the way it
was. Love for this person starts to fade. I cant do this anymore. If
you don't have kids you think "How could I have kids with this
person? what kind of father would he be? " If you have kids, you
think "The kids are suffering because he is ignoring them. It's OK
for me, but NOT THE KIDS!" What should I do?????"
********************************** Is this where you are right now?
Looking at the situations where some success has been had, these are
the only approaches that have worked. 1. In the files section of the
WOW widows website is an article from a former gamer who wrote about
his addiction and how it was destroying him. One woman left his
article on the computer screen so her gamer could read it. He
responded by deciding to quit playing the game. There is, however, no
guarantee that this will work with your gamer. 2. Separate. Do not
live together. Take a stand, and say, it's the game or me. Leave.
Tell him, " I will not return until the game is gone. If you take too
long, I may not return at all." Then actually pack up and leave.
Nothing short of that gets their attention. RIck and Leigh, who write
on this forum, will tell you that, while that approach worked for
them, it took Leigh, who was the gamer in that situation, 4 months to
realize what what going on. If you say, Oh, I couldn't do that, then
you are actually enabling the gamer. As long as the gamer has you and
the game under the same roof, the gamer continues to believe that
things are OK. Sometimes they notice things are a little rocky, but
do not acknowlege that there is a big problem. So, you said " I am
new" so I thought I would give the new people a little summary, so it
doesn't take them so long to realize that your continued presence is
part of the problem. Sorry this is so long. THere is a lot more that
could be said.
--- In [email protected], "Jesse Suckow Crowell"
<stompy@...> wrote:
my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him. I recently
joined a yahoo group for Wow widows. Search yahoo groups for "gaming
addicts" and you'll find a lot of support groups. They taught me how
to determine how much time my husband spends in-game on average per
day. It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9
hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
Gaming IS addictive. It CAN be very destructive to their lives. Wow
is a game that always has something new to do, so some people NEVER
get burnt out on it. To make things worse, they forge friendships
with their fellow gamers, and develop a sense of obligation to be
there for those people and help them with "instances" and such. They
get to the point that they would rather let down the people in their
real life than the people on the other side of that screen.
As a married woman, I beg you to do your child's possible future
spouse a favor. Teach him MODERATION. Teach him that having fun is
fine and dandy, but there are other things in life that have to come
first. Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world. Teach him to deal with real life
in CONSTRUCTIVE ways. Teach him that addiction is NOT a soloution to
anything.
You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as an
introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
cried over every night by his wife.
File: Welcome to WowWidows
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/WOW_widow/
Based on the experiences of the ones who have been on this forum for
a long time, having tried everything...... In the beginning you feel
soft and vulnerable "I love him why isn't he paying any attention to
me?" Then after a while, a tiny bit of anger creeps in" This isn't
right! I should not be treated like this!", There is the
embarrassment mode "I can't tell anyone about this! it would sound
ridiculous" THen comes the various attempts to intervene - take away
the physical parts of the computer - the mouse, the keyboard, the
sound card, the cable for the modem,,,etc etc and this generally
invites ANGER from the gamer. A sense of frustration creeps in,,,"why
can't I get through to him?" then, realizing that no amount of
talking or negotiating with him will improve the situation, you
decide to confide in a few close friends, who, not understanding the
seriousness of the addiction, just laugh it off and say, "just
disconnect the internet" or some such non-helpful advice. You start
to look on the internet for information about this problem. You find
this group, and others. You read and read and read and you are
horrified by what you read. Then you think, "well, my gamer isn't as
bad as THOSE people".....but yet, .... Then more attempts to
negotiate deals on playing time, etc, Deals are made, but always
broken. They don't last. Gamer goes back to his old ways.... You
think, "I am getting nowhere". "Why do I feel so alone?" In the first
place, one of the reasons you feel alone is because you are depending
on someone else to make you happy. This is a common theme here, and
it takes a long time for a wow widow to realize that you have to be a
whole person on your own before you can enter into any kind of
partnership. People who are selfconfident and have some respect for
themselves, their abilities and their place in the world would never
in a million years put up with a partner like this. So then, you
think, I have to start looking after me. You start to go out with
friends, first it's just for coffee, then another time dinner, then
another time a whole evening, then after a while a whole weekend away
with friends...You think "He will notice I am gone'. He doesn't. It
just gives him more time to play without being nagged at. But you
continue to go out, and after a while, you begin to enjoy yourself
without him. Then you think "He is a big loser and is missing out on
life. He can do that if he wants, but I am going to have fun
anyway. " So you end up leading separate lives, in a way, because he
will not go to weddings, parties, out for dinner with friends, or
anywhere socially that you might consider normal. If you do get him
to go out, he will demand that he has to be back for an
important "raid" and insists on leaving before the event has come to
an end. You feel cheated. You begin to think "is there something
wrong with me? am I too fat? and I just a nag now?" So you carry on
living life on your own, and begin to wonder just why do you have him
in your life. You remember when he was fun, and you think "If only he
could just be who he used to be!" or,,"The real him is under there
somewhere!" Slowly it dawns on you "he must have a problem. He is
depressed or something" You ask him to go see a doctor or therapist
or somebody. He won't. He will not admit to having a problem. It is
just a hobby, he says. You start to get sarcastic "Some hobby! " you
say. "I'd like to have 16 hours a day to spend on my hobby!" Anger
returns. He won't cooperate at all. You start to wonder if it's all
worth it. You start making plans to leave. You wonder what you are
doing there, and why it took you so long to see that he just doesn't
love you anymore. He loves his game more. He finds out you are
thinking about leaving,. He makes an effort. He plays a bit less. You
have second thoughts. You stay. Everything goes back to the way it
was. Love for this person starts to fade. I cant do this anymore. If
you don't have kids you think "How could I have kids with this
person? what kind of father would he be? " If you have kids, you
think "The kids are suffering because he is ignoring them. It's OK
for me, but NOT THE KIDS!" What should I do?????"
********************************** Is this where you are right now?
Looking at the situations where some success has been had, these are
the only approaches that have worked. 1. In the files section of the
WOW widows website is an article from a former gamer who wrote about
his addiction and how it was destroying him. One woman left his
article on the computer screen so her gamer could read it. He
responded by deciding to quit playing the game. There is, however, no
guarantee that this will work with your gamer. 2. Separate. Do not
live together. Take a stand, and say, it's the game or me. Leave.
Tell him, " I will not return until the game is gone. If you take too
long, I may not return at all." Then actually pack up and leave.
Nothing short of that gets their attention. RIck and Leigh, who write
on this forum, will tell you that, while that approach worked for
them, it took Leigh, who was the gamer in that situation, 4 months to
realize what what going on. If you say, Oh, I couldn't do that, then
you are actually enabling the gamer. As long as the gamer has you and
the game under the same roof, the gamer continues to believe that
things are OK. Sometimes they notice things are a little rocky, but
do not acknowlege that there is a big problem. So, you said " I am
new" so I thought I would give the new people a little summary, so it
doesn't take them so long to realize that your continued presence is
part of the problem. Sorry this is so long. THere is a lot more that
could be said.
--- In [email protected], "Jesse Suckow Crowell"
<stompy@...> wrote:
>WoW) I can
> How long has this been going on? As a player of MMORPG's (incl
> tell you that (for me anyway, with the first MMORPG that I played )there was
> a big hook in the beginning when you really do want to play all thetime,
> they are such an engaging games. I wasn't able to play all day(job), but
> seriously I probably would have if I could have for months. Thereis a rich
> online community which is rather unique in games. After that, thenewness
> wore down and it became more of a grind in some ways. Our familyof 4
> plays WoW together now which has been a fun new way of experiencingincluding
> teamwork. It definitely gives us all sorts of topics to discuss
> tolerance, tactics, and just how fun that last instance run was.be when
> I wish I could help more. I can understand how frustrating it must
> the rest of you want to be engaged in other things away from thehouse and
> can't go because of this. Have you considered a babysitter? Haveyou told
> him that you miss him (in a non guilty way, but honestly)?reassurance. My
> Jess
>
> On Dec 9, 2007 12:04 AM, Amie <amiersa2@...> wrote:
>
> > I am just looking for some ideas and I guess maybe some
> > son,time he
> > who is 10 plays World of Warcraft nearly 12 hours a day. From the
> > gets up until the time he goes to bed, he is sitting at thecomputer. He
> > gets up to eat (sometimes), and to use the bathroom. I sometimesbring him
> > food. I try to look at it as a passion. For the most part, I amable to do
> > this, but some days the doubt really creeps in. One problem isthat he
> > neverevery
> > wants to go anywhere with us as a family. It is a struggle almost
> > time. My other son was in tears the other day telling me that hedoes not
> > think it is fair that Eric gets to "decide if we can goanywhere". This
> > feels pretty close to the truth for me. Most times we want to goof us can
> > somewhere,
> > we have to wait until me or my husband are both here so that one
> > stay here, and one go with Sam. He is not quite to the age thathe can
> > staymore
> > home alone, and when that happens, I feel like he will be even
> > isolated. I miss going places together. He has been passionateabout it
> > since the conference. He was playing some before then, but hewould also
> > gobelieve world
> > places sometimes with us, he would skateboard, and have some other
> > interests. I am worried that he would rather be in the make
> > than in the real world. The only reason I say that is that hestarted to
> > show some signs of depression before he started WOW. We are usingto tell,
> > homeopathy, and he seemed to improve, but even this is difficult
> > because I really don't have a lot of time to just sit and chatwith him.
> > Ifsee how
> > I sit with him while he plays, we talk about WOW. I really can
> > muchline, and
> > he has learned by playing this, and he has met some friends on
> > onefrustrated
> > in real life, but I just get worried. And, I have to say
> > sometimes feeling like a prisoner here. Most times I can get mymindset so
> > that I am ok with it, but then I will hardly see him all day, andstart to
> > worry again. I know there are a lot of positives here, but I justneed
> > someyou come
> > other perspectives.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Amie
> >
> > "Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes
> > alive, and then go do that. Because what the world needs ispeople who
> > have
> > come alive." ~Harold Whitman
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 10, 2007, at 11:37 AM, mrs.mama21 wrote:
Maybe some of you are missing "the rest of the story?" Radical
Unschooling doesn't mean just letting them sit in the basement,
playing video games, not eating, needing to pee, getting frustrated
and angry, avoiding social interaction with their friends and family.
You'll hear this whole thing differently if you can manage to put your
attention on what unschoolers "do."
No claims are being made about unrestricted video game playing in
children, teens, or adults who have been conventionally parented, much
less those who have been dysfunctionally parented.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Well, I'm usually just a lurker here, but the chats about Wow caughtAgain, is this relevant? Was HE a radically unschooled kid?
> my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
> so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him.
Maybe some of you are missing "the rest of the story?" Radical
Unschooling doesn't mean just letting them sit in the basement,
playing video games, not eating, needing to pee, getting frustrated
and angry, avoiding social interaction with their friends and family.
You'll hear this whole thing differently if you can manage to put your
attention on what unschoolers "do."
No claims are being made about unrestricted video game playing in
children, teens, or adults who have been conventionally parented, much
less those who have been dysfunctionally parented.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
My husband and I both play MMORPGs but not WOW something else. We play
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> together. People that want to disconnect from their families find a way toKaren
> do so no matter what is available. Blaming the game for a husband not being
> available and calling it addiction is like blaming Jack Daniels for making
> whiskey when your husband is an alcoholic. The fault lies with the marriage
> not the escape. And I don't think it can be compared to this child nor does
> this child's behavior today predict how he will be with a future spouse. If
> he's in love, has a wife he wants to come home to and enjoys being with he
> will do those things. Like I said, my husband and I both play and we play
> together. The games can be quite nice for bonding and spending time
> together even if you are on different computers in different rooms. I know
> a dad and son that play and use the voice channel to talk about what's going
> on in the kid's life while they play. It's easier for him to talk to his
> dad when they are doing that than in a face to face questioning kind of
> thing.
>
>--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Blaming the game for a husband not being available and calling it
addiction is like blaming Jack Daniels for making whiskey when your
husband is an alcoholic. ~~
That's exactly what I was thinking.
A happy, whole, healthy family wouldn't find themselves in peril over
a game. If someone in the family is that impassioned over the game
(which DOES take days and weeks of dedication in order to get anywhere
at first) they either need support or the other family members are not
going to understand and it's going to cause a problem.
If the game is more important than connecting with his family, there
was a disconnect long before the game I would guess.
My other thought is that the more a wife/partner tries to "teach" him
anything, the more he's going to submerge in the game. Trying to
regulate other human beings doesn't work. He either wants to change
things for the better or he doesn't.
I'm wondering if he was going to college or submersing himself in
something deemed "valuable" by societal standards whether it would be
seen as "destroying" his family? That's a lot of burden for a single
game or a single person in a family to bear. If the family is being
destroyed, there is NO way it can be the game's fault and probably not
just his fault. Heck, getting beyond fault and figuring out what works
for everyone in this situation would be great.
My oldest son who plays WoW every day for many hours (and has for
years) read the post and said "geez, that's pretty intense, but she
shouldn't blame the game". He thought it sounded ridiculous to ignore
one's family over WoW though.
What if the family could join in? What if they CONNECTED over the game
and made it family entertainment? If it's something other members just
truly can't get into, then obviously some shifts should happen. Having
other people "teach self-regulation" isn't the answer though.
Self-regulation comes from within.
I'd venture to say that feeling overly controlled in life leads one
to indulge in a virtual world that values you for your skills, rather
than your image or your status or career choices. It's one place where
you matter, without the societal baggage that so many encounter in
real life. It has it's own societal boundaries, one's that are far
different from the world most of us interact with. That can be a very
positive thing.
Blaming a partner for the destruction of a family isn't a great place
to begin connecting. Feeling celebrated and cherished for exactly
who-you-are is so important in a family unit. Every member needs to
have that and if it isn't possible, then it might be time to dig
deeper than WoW.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
addiction is like blaming Jack Daniels for making whiskey when your
husband is an alcoholic. ~~
That's exactly what I was thinking.
A happy, whole, healthy family wouldn't find themselves in peril over
a game. If someone in the family is that impassioned over the game
(which DOES take days and weeks of dedication in order to get anywhere
at first) they either need support or the other family members are not
going to understand and it's going to cause a problem.
If the game is more important than connecting with his family, there
was a disconnect long before the game I would guess.
My other thought is that the more a wife/partner tries to "teach" him
anything, the more he's going to submerge in the game. Trying to
regulate other human beings doesn't work. He either wants to change
things for the better or he doesn't.
I'm wondering if he was going to college or submersing himself in
something deemed "valuable" by societal standards whether it would be
seen as "destroying" his family? That's a lot of burden for a single
game or a single person in a family to bear. If the family is being
destroyed, there is NO way it can be the game's fault and probably not
just his fault. Heck, getting beyond fault and figuring out what works
for everyone in this situation would be great.
My oldest son who plays WoW every day for many hours (and has for
years) read the post and said "geez, that's pretty intense, but she
shouldn't blame the game". He thought it sounded ridiculous to ignore
one's family over WoW though.
What if the family could join in? What if they CONNECTED over the game
and made it family entertainment? If it's something other members just
truly can't get into, then obviously some shifts should happen. Having
other people "teach self-regulation" isn't the answer though.
Self-regulation comes from within.
I'd venture to say that feeling overly controlled in life leads one
to indulge in a virtual world that values you for your skills, rather
than your image or your status or career choices. It's one place where
you matter, without the societal baggage that so many encounter in
real life. It has it's own societal boundaries, one's that are far
different from the world most of us interact with. That can be a very
positive thing.
Blaming a partner for the destruction of a family isn't a great place
to begin connecting. Feeling celebrated and cherished for exactly
who-you-are is so important in a family unit. Every member needs to
have that and if it isn't possible, then it might be time to dig
deeper than WoW.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Susan
> You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. <snip>Understandably, you're relating this to the experience you've had with
> My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
> goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
> possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
your husband's gaming. I'm going to be presumptuous here and assume
that he did not grow as a radically unschooled child, who become a
radically unschooled teen, who grew into adulthood as a person who had
always had his interests taken seriously and his needs met. So it is
not the same situation.
> When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as anThat file could have been about *any* of the numerous things that have
> introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
> at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
> only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
> deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
> do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
> cried over every night by his wife.
been erroneously blamed as the *cause* of addiction. I could easily
substitute porn or gambling or alcohol in place of WOW and gaming.
The plain truth: gaming and gambling and porn don't *cause* addiction.
Simply taking the "stuff" away won't take the addictive
tendencies/compulsions of the person away and it won't resolve any
ongoing, underlying issues within the family that haven't been
addressed. Issues like this are *not* created or caused by the games
themselves. Lots of people who play computer/video games have lives
which are *not* falling apart. Lots of families on this list really
enjoy gaming and find that it does *not* cause disconnection and
strife within their relationships.
These issues you mention, although obviously difficult, were not
caused by WOW. There are other factors at play that "destroy" lives
and marriages - WOW is not at fault. Potentially *anything* can act as
a crutch - the *real* issues are not the "things" people turn to for
escape, but the underlying problems. Something (or many things) are
off balance, needs aren't being met, or someone has unresolved issues.
Gaming is not the cause of the dysfunction here - WOW alone does NOT
affect a family in this way.
Again, this is *not* about an RU child living in a home where he is
respectfully, consensually parented by supportive, loving people who
deeply value the needs and interests of their child. If giving
children unlimited gaming time caused "addiction" and led to these
sorts of issues then THIS would be the place to learn about that,
since most families on this list don't limit video & computer game
time. But in all my years interacting with the unschooling community,
I have yet to hear, read, or see any evidence of unschoolers who are
now adults with these issues.
~ Susan
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
=================================
My kneejerk reaction to this is how cool. How fantastic to be part of a community of people who want to be together and play together. How fantastic that these amazing games have such wonderful, dedicated players.
The last few days my two children, Simon (10) and Linnaea (7), have been playing World of Warcraft quite a bit. They are loving it! I am loving it! We have two computers and two accounts so that they can play together. They sit sometimes in the same room and sometimes in adjacent rooms and play hide and seek, and work through quests together, talking and laughing for a good deal of it. I get invited to be a part of it regulalry. Either by helping them figure out something (I've had at least one of each species at some point in WoW) or how to get somewhere, or by actually being asked to play a character. They are so wonderfully inclusive with their WoW. It would have been easy for me to drive them away. It would have been easy for me to look down my pince nez glasses and talk about how it isn't very valuable to play WoW, or to be fearful about the sway this game could have in their lives. But I enjoy the game. I played the game with Simon, just as I used
to hold him on my lap and we'd play Blues Clues together when he was 3, or Barnyard Rhythm and Moos and Tonka Construction when he was even younger. He and I would sit together and I'd move us between places and he would attack enemies when we first tried WoW. And we'd get excited and he would encourage me to make my own character. He wants this great pleasure to be a part of everyone's enjoyment. Linnaea less so, mostly she just wants to play and to have someone else to play with her. I imagine that they will remember playing together on WoW when they are grown and it will be a sweet memory along the lines of my playing Pong with my brother. But there is no disconnect in our family, it is just another way we are connected.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
=================================
My kneejerk reaction to this is how cool. How fantastic to be part of a community of people who want to be together and play together. How fantastic that these amazing games have such wonderful, dedicated players.
The last few days my two children, Simon (10) and Linnaea (7), have been playing World of Warcraft quite a bit. They are loving it! I am loving it! We have two computers and two accounts so that they can play together. They sit sometimes in the same room and sometimes in adjacent rooms and play hide and seek, and work through quests together, talking and laughing for a good deal of it. I get invited to be a part of it regulalry. Either by helping them figure out something (I've had at least one of each species at some point in WoW) or how to get somewhere, or by actually being asked to play a character. They are so wonderfully inclusive with their WoW. It would have been easy for me to drive them away. It would have been easy for me to look down my pince nez glasses and talk about how it isn't very valuable to play WoW, or to be fearful about the sway this game could have in their lives. But I enjoy the game. I played the game with Simon, just as I used
to hold him on my lap and we'd play Blues Clues together when he was 3, or Barnyard Rhythm and Moos and Tonka Construction when he was even younger. He and I would sit together and I'd move us between places and he would attack enemies when we first tried WoW. And we'd get excited and he would encourage me to make my own character. He wants this great pleasure to be a part of everyone's enjoyment. Linnaea less so, mostly she just wants to play and to have someone else to play with her. I imagine that they will remember playing together on WoW when they are grown and it will be a sweet memory along the lines of my playing Pong with my brother. But there is no disconnect in our family, it is just another way we are connected.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:37 PM, mrs.mama21 wrote:
addiction. If he's doing WOW for stress reasons, that will just
increase the stress in his life.
If you see WOW as filling a need he has, it will help you look at the
problem in a more helpful light.
There is a lack in his life and he's trying to meet that need. He's
choosing something that is relaxing (and fun!) but the side effects
are not making the need go away and obviously damaging his
relationship with his family. Condemning his choice won't help him
find another outlet or a less damaging way to use his outlet. It's
going to drive him further away from you.
Rather than trying to impose a solution to fix your problem (lack of
husband and lack of support), work *with* him on a solution that
helps everyone. Too often spouses approach the other with an attitude
of "Here's how you're broken and here's how you need to fix yourself
to solve my problem." It doesn't work! It damages the relationship.
Acknowledge with him that he needs an outlet or needs the leisure
time to play WOW. This is important! If he thinks you're discussion
with him is about taking away what he is finding comfort in, he's
going to shut down. Make it a priority to preserve his outlet. Talk
about *why* he needs an outlet. Maybe his job is extra stressful or
boring. (Adding to his stress won't help! He'll just dig in deeper
and maybe you'll lose even the hour with his family.) Work *with* him
to find a way to meet his needs. Work *with* him to find a way that
everyone can get their needs met without draining from others.
Don't think of this as a one time discussion. Talk about the
solution. Tweak it. Go back to the drawing board if something isn't
working at all.
(This works with kids too! Though parents should be extra cautious if
they're looking to their kids to get the parents' needs met. We, as
adults, are responsible for our own needs.)
often as they want?
The actions may look the same, but when someone is playing to escape
school and work, they're playing for different reasons than people
who are playing just because it's fun. Obviously it's fun for both,
but when someone isn't *also* playing to fill a need or escape
something, they can set it aside when something else comes along.
Unschooling is about helping kids fill their needs. When those needs
are filled, they aren't using WOW and TV and reading and other
activities to escape. There shouldn't be a reason for unschooling
kids to escape! *That's* the problem that needs fixed.
When I was a kid I watched a lot of TV. A lot. It was relaxing after
the social pressures of school. Without school, there wouldn't have
been a need to use TV as a relaxant. (After my freshman year of
college, over the summer I parked myself in front of HBO. I watched
Monty Python and the Holy Grail 37 times I estimated. I didn't even
get it the first few times! I *needed* that relaxant though.) Now, as
an adult -- without school ;-) -- as much as I love movies and TV
shows, we watch maybe an hour a day. If my husband and daughter take
off for the day, the TV rarely comes on. There are just too many
other things I'd rather do.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9And you're seeing that he's wrong and needs to change, to stop the
> hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
> does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
> April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
> had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
> depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
> rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
addiction. If he's doing WOW for stress reasons, that will just
increase the stress in his life.
If you see WOW as filling a need he has, it will help you look at the
problem in a more helpful light.
There is a lack in his life and he's trying to meet that need. He's
choosing something that is relaxing (and fun!) but the side effects
are not making the need go away and obviously damaging his
relationship with his family. Condemning his choice won't help him
find another outlet or a less damaging way to use his outlet. It's
going to drive him further away from you.
Rather than trying to impose a solution to fix your problem (lack of
husband and lack of support), work *with* him on a solution that
helps everyone. Too often spouses approach the other with an attitude
of "Here's how you're broken and here's how you need to fix yourself
to solve my problem." It doesn't work! It damages the relationship.
Acknowledge with him that he needs an outlet or needs the leisure
time to play WOW. This is important! If he thinks you're discussion
with him is about taking away what he is finding comfort in, he's
going to shut down. Make it a priority to preserve his outlet. Talk
about *why* he needs an outlet. Maybe his job is extra stressful or
boring. (Adding to his stress won't help! He'll just dig in deeper
and maybe you'll lose even the hour with his family.) Work *with* him
to find a way to meet his needs. Work *with* him to find a way that
everyone can get their needs met without draining from others.
Don't think of this as a one time discussion. Talk about the
solution. Tweak it. Go back to the drawing board if something isn't
working at all.
(This works with kids too! Though parents should be extra cautious if
they're looking to their kids to get the parents' needs met. We, as
adults, are responsible for our own needs.)
> You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. MyAre these radical unschoolers who can play as long as they want as
> husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
> some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
> it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
> YEARS.
often as they want?
The actions may look the same, but when someone is playing to escape
school and work, they're playing for different reasons than people
who are playing just because it's fun. Obviously it's fun for both,
but when someone isn't *also* playing to fill a need or escape
something, they can set it aside when something else comes along.
Unschooling is about helping kids fill their needs. When those needs
are filled, they aren't using WOW and TV and reading and other
activities to escape. There shouldn't be a reason for unschooling
kids to escape! *That's* the problem that needs fixed.
When I was a kid I watched a lot of TV. A lot. It was relaxing after
the social pressures of school. Without school, there wouldn't have
been a need to use TV as a relaxant. (After my freshman year of
college, over the summer I parked myself in front of HBO. I watched
Monty Python and the Holy Grail 37 times I estimated. I didn't even
get it the first few times! I *needed* that relaxant though.) Now, as
an adult -- without school ;-) -- as much as I love movies and TV
shows, we watch maybe an hour a day. If my husband and daughter take
off for the day, the TV rarely comes on. There are just too many
other things I'd rather do.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: mrs.mama21 <mrs.mama21@...>
Well, I'm usually just a lurker here, but the chats about Wow caught
my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him. I recently
joined a yahoo group for Wow widows. Search yahoo groups for "gaming
addicts" and you'll find a lot of support groups. They taught me how
to determine how much time my husband spends in-game on average per
day. It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9
hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If I had to come home to a pregnant, depressed wife who nagged me about
how I spend my time, I might choose to lose myself to a happy virtual
world.
You're saying your home life and relationship was sweet and vibrant
before WoW came into your lives? Would he say the same thing?
It's NOT the game. Something else is going on.
I think I would dump the WoW Widows' group, 'cause they're all just
whining and blaming something other than themselves as they choose to
wallow deeper and deeper in despair. I know misery loves company---and
it seems as if these women have chosen to wallow harder and deeper than
most. Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
resentment, and desperation? Oh yeah---that misery loving company thing.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Gaming IS addictive. It CAN be very destructive to their lives.
-=-=-=-
I think pleasure is good. If your life sucks, but you can find a way to
make it better---that's good.
And I think their lives may already be pretty rough.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Wow is a game that always has something new to do, so some people NEVER
get burnt out on it. To make things worse, they forge friendships
with their fellow gamers, and develop a sense of obligation to be
there for those people and help them with "instances" and such. They
get to the point that they would rather let down the people in their
real life than the people on the other side of that screen.
-=-=-=-=-=
Which person would you choose to spend time with? The friend who helps
you and does fun things with you? Or the friend who nags and belittles
your passions?
-=-=-=-=-=-
As a married woman, I beg you to do your child's possible future
spouse a favor. Teach him MODERATION. Teach him that having fun is
fine and dandy, but there are other things in life that have to come
first. Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world. Teach him to deal with real life
in CONSTRUCTIVE ways. Teach him that addiction is NOT a soloution to
anything.
-=-=-=-=-=-
As an unschooling parent, I suggest that you empower your children to
gobble up life. To immerse themselves in passions fully. To open their
worlds as much as you can (even the virtual ones).
-=-=-=-=-=-
You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
=-=-=-=-=-
Cool.
-=-=-=-==-
My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
-=-=-=-=-
I'd be more worried about a child who wasn't allowed to delve into
passions. Who was ridiculed and restricted from what he loves.
Children who are trusted and respected won't become adults who turn to
a game when life gets tough. They'll know they have a strong,
supportive family to come home to.
-=-=-=-=--=
When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as an
introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
cried over every night by his wife.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I hope that their fear-mongering does not inspire moms to become
Hilterian WoW-burners.
It's so full of anger and desperation and embarrassment and frustration
and resentment....and whining. They say they've tried everything. Well,
everything but being supportive and encouraging!
The only *good* thing it says is that we need to be "whole
people"---and that's true. Whining and depending on someone else for
out own happiness and joy is senseless. *I* must find the happiness and
joy within *ME*! Find your own passions, your own joy. Find what makes
you sing. Maybe even play WoW! (that wasn't one of the widows'
suggestions, was it?)
You can't dictate another's interests. We can only be the best persons
*we* can be and be as supportive and generous as possible with those
that we love.
There are golf widows and dog show widowers. I've known many of both.
But if they *choose* to be that uninvolved with their spouse's passion,
what do they expect? If, at first, it's just a cool hobby but is
ridiculed by the spouse, where exactly should the spouse go for
comfort? Back to the whining at home? Or out with friends who
understand and support and have fun at the same game? If you want to
have your husband back, BE the wife he'd like to come home to.
But as for unschooled children (our regularly scheduled subject <g>),
keep their worlds rich and fun and inviting. When our passions are
supported and encouraged (especially by our parents and other loved
ones), we remain whole individuals with passion for ALL of life, not
just small parts of it. Embrace what they embrace and make sure they
know they (and their passions) are valued and important to you.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: mrs.mama21 <mrs.mama21@...>
Well, I'm usually just a lurker here, but the chats about Wow caught
my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him. I recently
joined a yahoo group for Wow widows. Search yahoo groups for "gaming
addicts" and you'll find a lot of support groups. They taught me how
to determine how much time my husband spends in-game on average per
day. It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9
hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If I had to come home to a pregnant, depressed wife who nagged me about
how I spend my time, I might choose to lose myself to a happy virtual
world.
You're saying your home life and relationship was sweet and vibrant
before WoW came into your lives? Would he say the same thing?
It's NOT the game. Something else is going on.
I think I would dump the WoW Widows' group, 'cause they're all just
whining and blaming something other than themselves as they choose to
wallow deeper and deeper in despair. I know misery loves company---and
it seems as if these women have chosen to wallow harder and deeper than
most. Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
resentment, and desperation? Oh yeah---that misery loving company thing.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Gaming IS addictive. It CAN be very destructive to their lives.
-=-=-=-
I think pleasure is good. If your life sucks, but you can find a way to
make it better---that's good.
And I think their lives may already be pretty rough.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Wow is a game that always has something new to do, so some people NEVER
get burnt out on it. To make things worse, they forge friendships
with their fellow gamers, and develop a sense of obligation to be
there for those people and help them with "instances" and such. They
get to the point that they would rather let down the people in their
real life than the people on the other side of that screen.
-=-=-=-=-=
Which person would you choose to spend time with? The friend who helps
you and does fun things with you? Or the friend who nags and belittles
your passions?
-=-=-=-=-=-
As a married woman, I beg you to do your child's possible future
spouse a favor. Teach him MODERATION. Teach him that having fun is
fine and dandy, but there are other things in life that have to come
first. Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world. Teach him to deal with real life
in CONSTRUCTIVE ways. Teach him that addiction is NOT a soloution to
anything.
-=-=-=-=-=-
As an unschooling parent, I suggest that you empower your children to
gobble up life. To immerse themselves in passions fully. To open their
worlds as much as you can (even the virtual ones).
-=-=-=-=-=-
You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
=-=-=-=-=-
Cool.
-=-=-=-==-
My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
-=-=-=-=-
I'd be more worried about a child who wasn't allowed to delve into
passions. Who was ridiculed and restricted from what he loves.
Children who are trusted and respected won't become adults who turn to
a game when life gets tough. They'll know they have a strong,
supportive family to come home to.
-=-=-=-=--=
When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as an
introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
cried over every night by his wife.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I hope that their fear-mongering does not inspire moms to become
Hilterian WoW-burners.
It's so full of anger and desperation and embarrassment and frustration
and resentment....and whining. They say they've tried everything. Well,
everything but being supportive and encouraging!
The only *good* thing it says is that we need to be "whole
people"---and that's true. Whining and depending on someone else for
out own happiness and joy is senseless. *I* must find the happiness and
joy within *ME*! Find your own passions, your own joy. Find what makes
you sing. Maybe even play WoW! (that wasn't one of the widows'
suggestions, was it?)
You can't dictate another's interests. We can only be the best persons
*we* can be and be as supportive and generous as possible with those
that we love.
There are golf widows and dog show widowers. I've known many of both.
But if they *choose* to be that uninvolved with their spouse's passion,
what do they expect? If, at first, it's just a cool hobby but is
ridiculed by the spouse, where exactly should the spouse go for
comfort? Back to the whining at home? Or out with friends who
understand and support and have fun at the same game? If you want to
have your husband back, BE the wife he'd like to come home to.
But as for unschooled children (our regularly scheduled subject <g>),
keep their worlds rich and fun and inviting. When our passions are
supported and encouraged (especially by our parents and other loved
ones), we remain whole individuals with passion for ALL of life, not
just small parts of it. Embrace what they embrace and make sure they
know they (and their passions) are valued and important to you.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Debra Rossing
As wife to someone who at some points might have been considered
"addicted" to gaming (WoW didn't even exist back then BTW) one thing I
might suggest is that you find out WHY he's spending that much time at
it. For my DH, it was an outlet for fear and stress *including* the
rather normal fears and stresses associated with becoming a father. Once
we *discussed* it calmly and in light of not taking gaming away but
rather of helping him find ways to express himself and vent the fear,
stress, frustration, he was able to take it or leave it more easily.
Even now, a decade or so past that, when he gets stressed, he may turn
to videogaming. And, when I see it, I give it a chance to resolve itself
and if it lasts more than a few days, no I don't berate him for it or
blame the game or threaten to toss it out, I make a quiet space in our
lives (which often means some extra caffeine for me so I can stay awake
late enough) and gently let him know I've noticed seems stressed and
open up a venue for us to talk about whatever it is. Cuddled up in the
dark sometimes makes it easier than face to face. It is often something
that he's not sure how to say - particularly if he's frustrated with
something I've done or am doing, if he feels pressured to do something
that's a "good thing" but not something he wants to be doing, etc. His
only models (the ILs) basically fought, yelled, bickered, and did the
"silent treatment" - it's taken DH many years to start being able to
express fears and frustrations and not just bottle it up until it
explodes.
You can't *teach* moderation BTW - you can *model* moderation but that's
not something that you can put into someone else. You can *limit*
someone but that's not the same thing.
I think a big thing that is noted in what you wrote is that these people
are *escaping* from something. Which leads to "what are they escaping
from?" and "Why do they need to use the game to escape? What is it that
they are unable to say/do in real life?" If someone feels that if they
say "gee I'm unsure/afraid/frustrated by ... and I need ...." they'll be
belittled, told that they shouldn't feel that, etc. then sure they're
going to not say it and find other ways to meet the needs that are going
unmet. When a person's needs are being met, when they are safe
physically and psychologically, when they know that even the "weirdest,
craziest, strangest" thing they can think will not be put down or pushed
off but will be accepted openly and honestly, the need to use other
things (whether gaming or drugs or whatever) ceases to have the same
draw. Among other things, the people in WoW are REAL people, they just
don't live right in the same neighborhood. I have many friends *online*
that I have never seen IRL, does that make letting them down any less
than if they were next door? If someone feels more emotionally connected
to online gaming partners than to in-the-next-room family and friends,
why is that? My guess is that the gaming partners *accept* that person
unconditionally.
Deb
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"addicted" to gaming (WoW didn't even exist back then BTW) one thing I
might suggest is that you find out WHY he's spending that much time at
it. For my DH, it was an outlet for fear and stress *including* the
rather normal fears and stresses associated with becoming a father. Once
we *discussed* it calmly and in light of not taking gaming away but
rather of helping him find ways to express himself and vent the fear,
stress, frustration, he was able to take it or leave it more easily.
Even now, a decade or so past that, when he gets stressed, he may turn
to videogaming. And, when I see it, I give it a chance to resolve itself
and if it lasts more than a few days, no I don't berate him for it or
blame the game or threaten to toss it out, I make a quiet space in our
lives (which often means some extra caffeine for me so I can stay awake
late enough) and gently let him know I've noticed seems stressed and
open up a venue for us to talk about whatever it is. Cuddled up in the
dark sometimes makes it easier than face to face. It is often something
that he's not sure how to say - particularly if he's frustrated with
something I've done or am doing, if he feels pressured to do something
that's a "good thing" but not something he wants to be doing, etc. His
only models (the ILs) basically fought, yelled, bickered, and did the
"silent treatment" - it's taken DH many years to start being able to
express fears and frustrations and not just bottle it up until it
explodes.
You can't *teach* moderation BTW - you can *model* moderation but that's
not something that you can put into someone else. You can *limit*
someone but that's not the same thing.
I think a big thing that is noted in what you wrote is that these people
are *escaping* from something. Which leads to "what are they escaping
from?" and "Why do they need to use the game to escape? What is it that
they are unable to say/do in real life?" If someone feels that if they
say "gee I'm unsure/afraid/frustrated by ... and I need ...." they'll be
belittled, told that they shouldn't feel that, etc. then sure they're
going to not say it and find other ways to meet the needs that are going
unmet. When a person's needs are being met, when they are safe
physically and psychologically, when they know that even the "weirdest,
craziest, strangest" thing they can think will not be put down or pushed
off but will be accepted openly and honestly, the need to use other
things (whether gaming or drugs or whatever) ceases to have the same
draw. Among other things, the people in WoW are REAL people, they just
don't live right in the same neighborhood. I have many friends *online*
that I have never seen IRL, does that make letting them down any less
than if they were next door? If someone feels more emotionally connected
to online gaming partners than to in-the-next-room family and friends,
why is that? My guess is that the gaming partners *accept* that person
unconditionally.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world.***
Is your husband going through a hard time? If life is unpleasant people look for ways to bring in a little joy.
If life is challenging for him he *needs* a way to cope with stress. Are you able to provide the kind of home life that inspires peace and relaxation? If you're pregnant and depressed and maybe busy with other kids he's done well, I think, to find a way to relax and find some joy, at home.
He took a lot of hits from you in one email. You wrote he's an addict, you call yourself a widow so he's the same as dead to you, you've complained about him on more than one public forum and you said *he's* destroying his family. All that negativity came from you, not him.
***Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world.***
Is it more ok to escape from your problems by sliding into the seductive black comfort of depression? Lots of people use their depression as a way to emotionally distance themselves from their partners.
You're depressed. You're pregnant. You want more attention from your husband. If a wife can't help herself out of depression she'll have less credibility with a partner when she admonishes him because of the way he copes with stress. You yourself have gone online to a list to get help for your problems, can you not see that you've chosen a similar path in that? He at least isn't complaining about you to strangers.
If it's your belief that your partner should be trying to make *your* life better, less stressful, etc., then it would be nice of you to adopt a policy of trying to do the same for him. If he is emotionally unavailable then you won't change that with whining and nagging and anger. It will only change when *he* feels it's safe to make himself available again. That will happen when everything that's wrong in your eyes stops being his fault.
I know it can be hard to feel alone in a time when you also feel tired and emotionally wonky. My husband worked away from home all week and was only home on weekends when I was pregnant. We lived in the boonies in Alaska. We didn't have plumbing or running water. We heated with wood. I'd puke my way out the door some nights to bring in firewood and puke my way back in, I had morning sickness (all day and night for five months) Some mornings I was delayed on the way to the outhouse because there'd be moose on the path. (honestly a moose is no match for a pregnant woman who has to pee.<g>) But it can be just as hard to be the guy who can't make his wife feel better. Give him your love and patience, same as you want from him.
This list is for advice and ideas that will help people understand unschooling and apply the principles to their lives. If you don't intend to offer advice that will help people get closer to their goal of radical unschooling, don't post it here. Advice about why parents should fear video games or TV or French fries or MT. Dew is widely available. This isn't the place for it.
If you have questions about why unschooling parents don't fear these things, feel free to ask.
My son played video games a lot when he was younger. Some days he'd get out of bed and start playing and still be in his pj's when night time rolled around again.<g> He played games for years. He's fifteen now and I don't remember the last time he played. He's one example of a radically unschooled person who had unlimited, unrestricted access to his games.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
losing yourself in a virtual world.***
Is your husband going through a hard time? If life is unpleasant people look for ways to bring in a little joy.
If life is challenging for him he *needs* a way to cope with stress. Are you able to provide the kind of home life that inspires peace and relaxation? If you're pregnant and depressed and maybe busy with other kids he's done well, I think, to find a way to relax and find some joy, at home.
He took a lot of hits from you in one email. You wrote he's an addict, you call yourself a widow so he's the same as dead to you, you've complained about him on more than one public forum and you said *he's* destroying his family. All that negativity came from you, not him.
***Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
losing yourself in a virtual world.***
Is it more ok to escape from your problems by sliding into the seductive black comfort of depression? Lots of people use their depression as a way to emotionally distance themselves from their partners.
You're depressed. You're pregnant. You want more attention from your husband. If a wife can't help herself out of depression she'll have less credibility with a partner when she admonishes him because of the way he copes with stress. You yourself have gone online to a list to get help for your problems, can you not see that you've chosen a similar path in that? He at least isn't complaining about you to strangers.
If it's your belief that your partner should be trying to make *your* life better, less stressful, etc., then it would be nice of you to adopt a policy of trying to do the same for him. If he is emotionally unavailable then you won't change that with whining and nagging and anger. It will only change when *he* feels it's safe to make himself available again. That will happen when everything that's wrong in your eyes stops being his fault.
I know it can be hard to feel alone in a time when you also feel tired and emotionally wonky. My husband worked away from home all week and was only home on weekends when I was pregnant. We lived in the boonies in Alaska. We didn't have plumbing or running water. We heated with wood. I'd puke my way out the door some nights to bring in firewood and puke my way back in, I had morning sickness (all day and night for five months) Some mornings I was delayed on the way to the outhouse because there'd be moose on the path. (honestly a moose is no match for a pregnant woman who has to pee.<g>) But it can be just as hard to be the guy who can't make his wife feel better. Give him your love and patience, same as you want from him.
This list is for advice and ideas that will help people understand unschooling and apply the principles to their lives. If you don't intend to offer advice that will help people get closer to their goal of radical unschooling, don't post it here. Advice about why parents should fear video games or TV or French fries or MT. Dew is widely available. This isn't the place for it.
If you have questions about why unschooling parents don't fear these things, feel free to ask.
My son played video games a lot when he was younger. Some days he'd get out of bed and start playing and still be in his pj's when night time rolled around again.<g> He played games for years. He's fifteen now and I don't remember the last time he played. He's one example of a radically unschooled person who had unlimited, unrestricted access to his games.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
I think the best advice in the world for being a wife but really just about
you'd want to come home to" or friend or whatever. But if you do that, the
people in your life will come home. They will be engaged they will be part
of your life because you are feeding them what they need and in turn they
will feed you. It's simple. It's respect. And it WORKS.
Karen
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> being a person is this..."Be the wife you'd want to come home to." And you could say "Be the mom
>
you'd want to come home to" or friend or whatever. But if you do that, the
people in your life will come home. They will be engaged they will be part
of your life because you are feeding them what they need and in turn they
will feed you. It's simple. It's respect. And it WORKS.
Karen
>--
>
>
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
LID 8/23/07
LOA 11/9/07
TA 12/6/07
CA 01/14/08 @ 10:30am
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
resentment, and desperation? ***
Maybe they're addicted. <snort>
Deb Lewis
resentment, and desperation? ***
Maybe they're addicted. <snort>
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
***Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
resentment, and desperation? ***
Maybe they're addicted. <snort>
-=-=-=-=
You owe me a keyboard! Chai EVERYWHERE!!!
Damn---and clean underwear!
~K
________________________________________________________________________
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From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
***Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
resentment, and desperation? ***
Maybe they're addicted. <snort>
-=-=-=-=
You owe me a keyboard! Chai EVERYWHERE!!!
Damn---and clean underwear!
~K
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Faith Void
This reminds me of that movie Fever Pitch with Drew Barrymore. She
"lost" her boyfriend to the Red Sox every baseball season. But them
she almost lost more because she broke it off with him. And he almost
gave up his passion for her. Then what would they have had...a
passionless marriage. Luckily, she came to her senses and embraced him
exactly how he was, Red Sox and all. They were happy and passionate
together.
Faith
"lost" her boyfriend to the Red Sox every baseball season. But them
she almost lost more because she broke it off with him. And he almost
gave up his passion for her. Then what would they have had...a
passionless marriage. Luckily, she came to her senses and embraced him
exactly how he was, Red Sox and all. They were happy and passionate
together.
Faith
On Dec 11, 2007 9:08 AM, <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mrs.mama21 <mrs.mama21@...>
>
> Well, I'm usually just a lurker here, but the chats about Wow caught
> my eye. I'm what you call a "Wow Widow", meaning my husband spends
> so much time playing Wow that I feel I've lost him. I recently
> joined a yahoo group for Wow widows. Search yahoo groups for "gaming
> addicts" and you'll find a lot of support groups. They taught me how
> to determine how much time my husband spends in-game on average per
> day. It turned out to be over 6 hours. 8 hours of sleep, plus 9
> hours at work including commute, plus 6 hours gaming... how much time
> does that leave for his FAMILY? ONE hour! He's been playing since
> April, and I cant even explain to you the awful effect that this has
> had on our relationship. Being pregnant and struggling with
> depression myself, I'm especially vulnerable to the feelings of utter
> rejection when my husband chooses a virtual world over our life.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> If I had to come home to a pregnant, depressed wife who nagged me about
> how I spend my time, I might choose to lose myself to a happy virtual
> world.
>
> You're saying your home life and relationship was sweet and vibrant
> before WoW came into your lives? Would he say the same thing?
>
> It's NOT the game. Something else is going on.
>
> I think I would dump the WoW Widows' group, 'cause they're all just
> whining and blaming something other than themselves as they choose to
> wallow deeper and deeper in despair. I know misery loves company---and
> it seems as if these women have chosen to wallow harder and deeper than
> most. Why would anyone choose to join a group that would justify anger,
> resentment, and desperation? Oh yeah---that misery loving company thing.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
> Gaming IS addictive. It CAN be very destructive to their lives.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> I think pleasure is good. If your life sucks, but you can find a way to
> make it better---that's good.
>
> And I think their lives may already be pretty rough.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
> Wow is a game that always has something new to do, so some people NEVER
> get burnt out on it. To make things worse, they forge friendships
> with their fellow gamers, and develop a sense of obligation to be
> there for those people and help them with "instances" and such. They
> get to the point that they would rather let down the people in their
> real life than the people on the other side of that screen.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=
>
> Which person would you choose to spend time with? The friend who helps
> you and does fun things with you? Or the friend who nags and belittles
> your passions?
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
> As a married woman, I beg you to do your child's possible future
> spouse a favor. Teach him MODERATION. Teach him that having fun is
> fine and dandy, but there are other things in life that have to come
> first. Teach him that its not ok to escape from your problems by
> losing yourself in a virtual world. Teach him to deal with real life
> in CONSTRUCTIVE ways. Teach him that addiction is NOT a soloution to
> anything.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> As an unschooling parent, I suggest that you empower your children to
> gobble up life. To immerse themselves in passions fully. To open their
> worlds as much as you can (even the virtual ones).
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
> You may think he will grow out of it, but you would be surprised. My
> husband knows people in the game who are as young as teenagers, and
> some as old as their 50's. MANY of them have been playing Wow since
> it came out, and prior to that were playing other online games for
> YEARS. Many of the people in his "guild" have known eachother for
> years, and when a new and better game comes out, they all go together.
>
> =-=-=-=-=-
>
> Cool.
>
> -=-=-=-==-
>
>
> My fear for your son is that when he becomes an adult, and inevitably
> goes through a hard time in life, he will turn to his addiction and
> possibly destroy his entire family in the process.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> I'd be more worried about a child who wasn't allowed to delve into
> passions. Who was ridiculed and restricted from what he loves.
>
> Children who are trusted and respected won't become adults who turn to
> a game when life gets tough. They'll know they have a strong,
> supportive family to come home to.
>
> -=-=-=-=--=
>
>
> When I joined the group Wow Widows, they sent out a file to me as an
> introduction. I was shocked at how true it rang to me. I'm amazed
> at how many lives and marriages this game is destroying. I'm NOT the
> only one. Read on, and you will see what us "wow widows" have to
> deal with, and perhaps you will even relate to it and be inspired to
> do something for your son before he becomes one of the men that is
> cried over every night by his wife.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> I hope that their fear-mongering does not inspire moms to become
> Hilterian WoW-burners.
>
> It's so full of anger and desperation and embarrassment and frustration
> and resentment....and whining. They say they've tried everything. Well,
> everything but being supportive and encouraging!
>
> The only *good* thing it says is that we need to be "whole
> people"---and that's true. Whining and depending on someone else for
> out own happiness and joy is senseless. *I* must find the happiness and
> joy within *ME*! Find your own passions, your own joy. Find what makes
> you sing. Maybe even play WoW! (that wasn't one of the widows'
> suggestions, was it?)
>
> You can't dictate another's interests. We can only be the best persons
> *we* can be and be as supportive and generous as possible with those
> that we love.
>
> There are golf widows and dog show widowers. I've known many of both.
> But if they *choose* to be that uninvolved with their spouse's passion,
> what do they expect? If, at first, it's just a cool hobby but is
> ridiculed by the spouse, where exactly should the spouse go for
> comfort? Back to the whining at home? Or out with friends who
> understand and support and have fun at the same game? If you want to
> have your husband back, BE the wife he'd like to come home to.
>
> But as for unschooled children (our regularly scheduled subject <g>),
> keep their worlds rich and fun and inviting. When our passions are
> supported and encouraged (especially by our parents and other loved
> ones), we remain whole individuals with passion for ALL of life, not
> just small parts of it. Embrace what they embrace and make sure they
> know they (and their passions) are valued and important to you.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
> __________________________________________________________
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