New to unschooling needs advice
pionerlife
We are new to unschooling- a few weeks new.
My question is this: We have 6 rabbits that are my oldest daughters
(age 7). We bought them for her and told her that if she would like to
earn some money she could get up to 8 females and one male. We would
buy all the cages, water bottles, feeders, rabbits, two bags of food,
one bale of hay and then let her loose with it. She is going to leave
the male in with one female for a week and then rotate him so they can
all have babies. She will then take the babies (once they are old
enough) to the auction to sell and whatever she makes there will be
her own money. From that money she has to turn around and buy more
food and bedding for them. She has to clean out their cages, etc. We
will help her but we will NOT do everything for her.
So far as I said we have 6 rabbits (4 female, 2 males- one male given
to us by a friend that is neutered), 2 cages (one is separted into 2
to technically make it 3 cages) and water bottles, feeders, bedding
for all.
She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails. I
am still learning. Her chores are making her bed, getting dressed,
feeding the cats, feeding and getting fresh water for the rabbits and
food and water for her hamsters. It is taking her forever to do her
chores once she wakes up. She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which
I love) but then she doesn't get anything done and I will not allow
those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
tummy filled.
Any help would be appreciated.
Kimberly
My question is this: We have 6 rabbits that are my oldest daughters
(age 7). We bought them for her and told her that if she would like to
earn some money she could get up to 8 females and one male. We would
buy all the cages, water bottles, feeders, rabbits, two bags of food,
one bale of hay and then let her loose with it. She is going to leave
the male in with one female for a week and then rotate him so they can
all have babies. She will then take the babies (once they are old
enough) to the auction to sell and whatever she makes there will be
her own money. From that money she has to turn around and buy more
food and bedding for them. She has to clean out their cages, etc. We
will help her but we will NOT do everything for her.
So far as I said we have 6 rabbits (4 female, 2 males- one male given
to us by a friend that is neutered), 2 cages (one is separted into 2
to technically make it 3 cages) and water bottles, feeders, bedding
for all.
She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails. I
am still learning. Her chores are making her bed, getting dressed,
feeding the cats, feeding and getting fresh water for the rabbits and
food and water for her hamsters. It is taking her forever to do her
chores once she wakes up. She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which
I love) but then she doesn't get anything done and I will not allow
those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
tummy filled.
Any help would be appreciated.
Kimberly
Ren Allen
~~ My question is this: We have 6 rabbits that are my oldest daughters
would buy all the cages, water bottles, feeders, rabbits, two bags of
food, one bale of hay and then let her loose with it.~~
Letting a 7 year old loose with a project of that magnitude is amazing
to me. I don't know ANY kids that age that understand exactly what
that level of responsibility is nor what it entails long term. Knowing
that a 7y.o. has limited cabability to understand long-term
commitment, it is then the parent's fault if the child can't handle it.
~~From that money she has to turn around and buy more food and bedding
for them. She has to clean out their cages, etc. We will help her but
we will NOT do everything for her. ~~
She's 7years old. Why does she "have to" do anything other than be 7
for now? Why does her interest in money and rabbits require her to
own and care for breeding and raising so many animals. *I* wouldn't
want that level of responsibility and I've lived a lot longer than
her. Why can't she have a pet rabbit? Why can't you help her with as
much as she needs help? That's the idea with unschooling, to help our
children whenever they need help. If you aren't willing to joyfully
help her as much as she needs it, why should she joyfully do her
chores you've assigned?
I think this situation does nothing to foster trust between parent and
child. If you are joyfully helping her with the entire project, it
could be a great time to learn together. I am having a hard time
understanding why a 7y.o would in any way be ready for what you've
just described.
~~> She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
We're all still learning. It's not great etiquette to ask for advice
and then add "don't send me nasty emails". Trust that everyone here is
going to share the very best information they have and if it isn't to
your taste that is up to you.
~~She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which> I love) but then she
doesn't get anything done and I will not allow those rabbits to sit
out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her tummy filled. ~~
If you "won't allow" it then go feed them. Seriously. This is a child
that showed interest in something and is now being punished for that
interest. Help her. Do it for her. Pretend today is the last day you
have with her and maybe the whole project will seem like a fun thing
to share. She is more important than those rabbits and she needs to
know you are on her side. Pets shouldn't have to depend on a coerced
7y.o. to feed them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
> (age 7). We bought them for her and told her that if she would liketo earn some money she could get up to 8 females and one male. We
would buy all the cages, water bottles, feeders, rabbits, two bags of
food, one bale of hay and then let her loose with it.~~
Letting a 7 year old loose with a project of that magnitude is amazing
to me. I don't know ANY kids that age that understand exactly what
that level of responsibility is nor what it entails long term. Knowing
that a 7y.o. has limited cabability to understand long-term
commitment, it is then the parent's fault if the child can't handle it.
~~From that money she has to turn around and buy more food and bedding
for them. She has to clean out their cages, etc. We will help her but
we will NOT do everything for her. ~~
She's 7years old. Why does she "have to" do anything other than be 7
for now? Why does her interest in money and rabbits require her to
own and care for breeding and raising so many animals. *I* wouldn't
want that level of responsibility and I've lived a lot longer than
her. Why can't she have a pet rabbit? Why can't you help her with as
much as she needs help? That's the idea with unschooling, to help our
children whenever they need help. If you aren't willing to joyfully
help her as much as she needs it, why should she joyfully do her
chores you've assigned?
I think this situation does nothing to foster trust between parent and
child. If you are joyfully helping her with the entire project, it
could be a great time to learn together. I am having a hard time
understanding why a 7y.o would in any way be ready for what you've
just described.
~~> She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
> forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails.I am still learning.~~
We're all still learning. It's not great etiquette to ask for advice
and then add "don't send me nasty emails". Trust that everyone here is
going to share the very best information they have and if it isn't to
your taste that is up to you.
~~She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which> I love) but then she
doesn't get anything done and I will not allow those rabbits to sit
out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her tummy filled. ~~
If you "won't allow" it then go feed them. Seriously. This is a child
that showed interest in something and is now being punished for that
interest. Help her. Do it for her. Pretend today is the last day you
have with her and maybe the whole project will seem like a fun thing
to share. She is more important than those rabbits and she needs to
know you are on her side. Pets shouldn't have to depend on a coerced
7y.o. to feed them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/2007 6:19:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pionerlife@... writes:
She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails. I
am still learning. Her chores are making her bed, getting dressed,
feeding the cats, feeding and getting fresh water for the rabbits and
food and water for her hamsters. It is taking her forever to do her
chores once she wakes up. She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which
I love) but then she doesn't get anything done and I will not allow
those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
tummy filled.
Any help would be appreciated.
***************************
Animals are living creatures and she's only SEVEN. They NEED care but not
necessarily from HER.
When we got our chickens.and later our ducks, and now rabbits I never *made*
my kids tend to them. It was never *their* responsibility. They were
interested in them and watched me and often offered to help me sometimes, and little
by little they knew all about them and how to totally care for them and were
*interested* in caring for them and then WANTED to care for them. Now they
do it mostly on their own ( ages 9 and 11).
I think YOU should do it, and make the job glorious and fun , caring for
other living creatures and let her learn to love and respect life all of life,
and have fun with her mom in the meantime.
~marcia
_http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony_
(http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony)
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pionerlife@... writes:
She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails. I
am still learning. Her chores are making her bed, getting dressed,
feeding the cats, feeding and getting fresh water for the rabbits and
food and water for her hamsters. It is taking her forever to do her
chores once she wakes up. She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which
I love) but then she doesn't get anything done and I will not allow
those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
tummy filled.
Any help would be appreciated.
***************************
Animals are living creatures and she's only SEVEN. They NEED care but not
necessarily from HER.
When we got our chickens.and later our ducks, and now rabbits I never *made*
my kids tend to them. It was never *their* responsibility. They were
interested in them and watched me and often offered to help me sometimes, and little
by little they knew all about them and how to totally care for them and were
*interested* in caring for them and then WANTED to care for them. Now they
do it mostly on their own ( ages 9 and 11).
I think YOU should do it, and make the job glorious and fun , caring for
other living creatures and let her learn to love and respect life all of life,
and have fun with her mom in the meantime.
~marcia
_http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony_
(http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony)
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill & Aimee Balch
Hi,
I am new to this group but read your post several times.I coulden't help throwing my two cents in........We've had the same problem with rabbit care....Really,all I wanted to say was if your dd still wants to cuddle w/you,I'd do it,mama! My dd6 still sleeps in our room,though not in bed w/us.In the mornings,she crawls in our bed and it's one of the best times of my day!! Maybe you guys could have cuddle time,then go feed the rabbits together? I know this was not the original deal w/your dd,but we all have to re-vamp our plans sometimes based on circumstances,child's ability,or whatever.Maybe you could explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving" about your rules.Then explain that she will eventually have to care for the rabbits by herself if she wants to keep them.Do what feels right in your heart,you won't go wrong!!
I am new to this group but read your post several times.I coulden't help throwing my two cents in........We've had the same problem with rabbit care....Really,all I wanted to say was if your dd still wants to cuddle w/you,I'd do it,mama! My dd6 still sleeps in our room,though not in bed w/us.In the mornings,she crawls in our bed and it's one of the best times of my day!! Maybe you guys could have cuddle time,then go feed the rabbits together? I know this was not the original deal w/your dd,but we all have to re-vamp our plans sometimes based on circumstances,child's ability,or whatever.Maybe you could explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving" about your rules.Then explain that she will eventually have to care for the rabbits by herself if she wants to keep them.Do what feels right in your heart,you won't go wrong!!
----- Original Message -----
From: MarSi77@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
In a message dated 11/15/2007 6:19:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pionerlife@... writes:
She goes to bed when she wants, gets up when she wants and takes
forever to do her chores. Don't yell at me or send me nasty emails. I
am still learning. Her chores are making her bed, getting dressed,
feeding the cats, feeding and getting fresh water for the rabbits and
food and water for her hamsters. It is taking her forever to do her
chores once she wakes up. She wants to lay in my bed, hug on me (which
I love) but then she doesn't get anything done and I will not allow
those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
tummy filled.
Any help would be appreciated.
***************************
Animals are living creatures and she's only SEVEN. They NEED care but not
necessarily from HER.
When we got our chickens.and later our ducks, and now rabbits I never *made*
my kids tend to them. It was never *their* responsibility. They were
interested in them and watched me and often offered to help me sometimes, and little
by little they knew all about them and how to totally care for them and were
*interested* in caring for them and then WANTED to care for them. Now they
do it mostly on their own ( ages 9 and 11).
I think YOU should do it, and make the job glorious and fun , caring for
other living creatures and let her learn to love and respect life all of life,
and have fun with her mom in the meantime.
~marcia
_http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony_
(http://www.xanga.com/livefreeinharmony)
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
When we got our dog (and then a second, who has since died), the
understanding was that he was my responsibility - not DH's and
definitely not DS'. DH would help out (his help was particularly good
for filling the self-watering thing because it's heavy) but I handled
feeding and cleaning the yard and vet appointments and all. Over time,
DS has learned how much to feed and all and he'll just do it sometimes -
typically I feed the dog when I leave in the morning and when I get home
in the evening. But, some evenings I'll get home and DS is already
feeding the dog - not as a chore or responsibility but as a -gift- to
me. For that matter, he'll sometimes feed the fish as well - he asked to
have fish and we worked it out to finally fit it into things BUT we
never required that he be their sole provider/caretaker (and he was 8
when we got the fish).
As others have said, a 7 yr old is really NOT ready to handle sole
responsibility for that many living creatures - even one bunny as a pet
is a LOT of responsibility. As an "assistant", sure but not as the
primary caregiver. If the adults in the household are not willing to
handle the majority of it, it needs a major rethinking. Also, why is it
that the rabbits "have to" be fed/watered/cleaned up after first thing
in the morning? Would it be less of a struggle if the bunny care could
happen before lunch (for example)? I'm guessing the rabbits don't care -
they'll adjust to whatever schedule you set up. Maybe revisit the idea
(sounds like a tape from way back when in your head) that "chores" must
be done first thing as soon as you get up. Why is that? Does it make a
difference WHEN (or IF) her bed gets made? Does it even really matter,
if you're not going out of the house, when she gets dressed? Many a day
my DS (he's 9 1/2) spends the day in PJs (and in summer that means
basically a pair of colorful boxers). I noted that her chores also
include cats and hamsters. So, not only does your 7 yr old have total
responsibility for half a dozen rabbits but also the cats and hamsters?
Good heavens! I don't even want to have responsibility for that many
critters - we've got two tanks of fish and a dog that has free access to
the outdoors (electric fence and doggie door) and that's about all we
want to deal with. Even IF she is the one who asked for them, YOU are
liable for their care in your home.
Deb
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
understanding was that he was my responsibility - not DH's and
definitely not DS'. DH would help out (his help was particularly good
for filling the self-watering thing because it's heavy) but I handled
feeding and cleaning the yard and vet appointments and all. Over time,
DS has learned how much to feed and all and he'll just do it sometimes -
typically I feed the dog when I leave in the morning and when I get home
in the evening. But, some evenings I'll get home and DS is already
feeding the dog - not as a chore or responsibility but as a -gift- to
me. For that matter, he'll sometimes feed the fish as well - he asked to
have fish and we worked it out to finally fit it into things BUT we
never required that he be their sole provider/caretaker (and he was 8
when we got the fish).
As others have said, a 7 yr old is really NOT ready to handle sole
responsibility for that many living creatures - even one bunny as a pet
is a LOT of responsibility. As an "assistant", sure but not as the
primary caregiver. If the adults in the household are not willing to
handle the majority of it, it needs a major rethinking. Also, why is it
that the rabbits "have to" be fed/watered/cleaned up after first thing
in the morning? Would it be less of a struggle if the bunny care could
happen before lunch (for example)? I'm guessing the rabbits don't care -
they'll adjust to whatever schedule you set up. Maybe revisit the idea
(sounds like a tape from way back when in your head) that "chores" must
be done first thing as soon as you get up. Why is that? Does it make a
difference WHEN (or IF) her bed gets made? Does it even really matter,
if you're not going out of the house, when she gets dressed? Many a day
my DS (he's 9 1/2) spends the day in PJs (and in summer that means
basically a pair of colorful boxers). I noted that her chores also
include cats and hamsters. So, not only does your 7 yr old have total
responsibility for half a dozen rabbits but also the cats and hamsters?
Good heavens! I don't even want to have responsibility for that many
critters - we've got two tanks of fish and a dog that has free access to
the outdoors (electric fence and doggie door) and that's about all we
want to deal with. Even IF she is the one who asked for them, YOU are
liable for their care in your home.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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CNC Software, Inc.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Maybe you could
explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving"
about your
rules.~~
Caving? As in changing your mind or letting go of rules? Why not? Why
would a parent need to NOT "cave"?
That sounds like top-down hierarchy to me and I don't think it's
helpful in the long run. Some rules swirl up out of mutual
consideration for the entire family (I don't think anyone here would
ever want cigarette smoke inside our house) but most of the time rules
are rather arbitrary, decided by some authority figure.
Rather than creating rules for other people, consider the principles
you want to live by as human beings and together decide how to work
with challenges with those principles in mind.
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving"
about your
rules.~~
Caving? As in changing your mind or letting go of rules? Why not? Why
would a parent need to NOT "cave"?
That sounds like top-down hierarchy to me and I don't think it's
helpful in the long run. Some rules swirl up out of mutual
consideration for the entire family (I don't think anyone here would
ever want cigarette smoke inside our house) but most of the time rules
are rather arbitrary, decided by some authority figure.
Rather than creating rules for other people, consider the principles
you want to live by as human beings and together decide how to work
with challenges with those principles in mind.
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Bill & Aimee Balch
I did say that it may be a good idea to amend the rules.....I also think flexibility on the the part of parents is important so that children learn that it is ok to be flexible,to think of other's needs,and that there are many solutions to a problem.I also think that parents are a child's most important role model.I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and to amend others......I thought that's what I said..... I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
~~Maybe you could
explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving"
about your
rules.~~
Caving? As in changing your mind or letting go of rules? Why not? Why
would a parent need to NOT "cave"?
That sounds like top-down hierarchy to me and I don't think it's
helpful in the long run. Some rules swirl up out of mutual
consideration for the entire family (I don't think anyone here would
ever want cigarette smoke inside our house) but most of the time rules
are rather arbitrary, decided by some authority figure.
Rather than creating rules for other people, consider the principles
you want to live by as human beings and together decide how to work
with challenges with those principles in mind.
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
riasplace3
--- In [email protected], "pionerlife" <pionerlife@...>
wrote:
7!!! Trust me, in 5 years you'll look back and it will look much
different.
Couldn't you take over the basic care, then when they're sold pay for
their items out of the money and split what's left?
Ria
wrote:
> and I will not allowI have to say, I think that is WAY WAY too much on a 7 yr old. She's
> those rabbits to sit out there hungry and thirsty while she gets her
> tummy filled.
7!!! Trust me, in 5 years you'll look back and it will look much
different.
Couldn't you take over the basic care, then when they're sold pay for
their items out of the money and split what's left?
Ria
Ren Allen
~~I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the
rules,and to amend others~~
What kind of rules does a parent need to stay "firm" for? Who decides
what these rules are?
~~Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped
apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see
how that helps meet anyone's needs~~
It's the type of group that discusses all aspects of unschooling and
how it applies to all of life. It's the kind of group that expects if
you post something, you're open to discussing it (hence, that
explanation in the group guidelines). It's the kind of group that
believes children should have equal respect to the adults in the home.
I don't think questioning something is necessarily "ripping it apart"
and I don't believe the idea of rules is semantics. If the need of
the list member is to examine ideas, discuss unschooling and be open
to being questioned then it will probably meet their needs.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
rules,and to amend others~~
What kind of rules does a parent need to stay "firm" for? Who decides
what these rules are?
~~Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped
apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see
how that helps meet anyone's needs~~
It's the type of group that discusses all aspects of unschooling and
how it applies to all of life. It's the kind of group that expects if
you post something, you're open to discussing it (hence, that
explanation in the group guidelines). It's the kind of group that
believes children should have equal respect to the adults in the home.
I don't think questioning something is necessarily "ripping it apart"
and I don't believe the idea of rules is semantics. If the need of
the list member is to examine ideas, discuss unschooling and be open
to being questioned then it will probably meet their needs.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH
In a community made up entirely of the written word, surely semantics is incredibly important.
On Unschooling_Discussion someone posted a link to Christine Kane's blog and a blogpost about how language shapes perception: http://christinekane.com/blog/watch-your-language/ Maybe reading through someone else's perspective on how words create possibility and bias might help you see why your word choice "caving in" should be questioned on a list about helping parents get to radical unschooling and respectful parenting.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 16 November, 2007 3:41:38 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
I did say that it may be a good idea to amend the rules.....I also think flexibility on the the part of parents is important so that children learn that it is ok to be flexible,to think of other's needs,and that there are many solutions to a problem.I also think that parents are a child's most important role model.I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and to amend others......I thought that's what I said..... I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
On Unschooling_Discussion someone posted a link to Christine Kane's blog and a blogpost about how language shapes perception: http://christinekane.com/blog/watch-your-language/ Maybe reading through someone else's perspective on how words create possibility and bias might help you see why your word choice "caving in" should be questioned on a list about helping parents get to radical unschooling and respectful parenting.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 16 November, 2007 3:41:38 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
I did say that it may be a good idea to amend the rules.....I also think flexibility on the the part of parents is important so that children learn that it is ok to be flexible,to think of other's needs,and that there are many solutions to a problem.I also think that parents are a child's most important role model.I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and to amend others......I thought that's what I said..... I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
~~Maybe you could
explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving"
about your
rules.~~
Caving? As in changing your mind or letting go of rules? Why not? Why
would a parent need to NOT "cave"?
That sounds like top-down hierarchy to me and I don't think it's
helpful in the long run. Some rules swirl up out of mutual
consideration for the entire family (I don't think anyone here would
ever want cigarette smoke inside our house) but most of the time rules
are rather arbitrary, decided by some authority figure.
Rather than creating rules for other people, consider the principles
you want to live by as human beings and together decide how to work
with challenges with those principles in mind.
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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Yahoo! Groups Links
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Kimberly pugh
I have received some wonderful help from everyone. I thank you all. As I said I am learning. I was a public school girl and I never thought it would be so hard to change my ways of thinking in that way.
My oldest daughter (the one who has the rabbits) was born at 22 weeks gestation and 1.5lbs. She is perfect other than mild cerebral palsy (which you wouldn't even know she had unless you saw her run). She is intelligent beyond her years. At 2 she knew all her colors, shapes (including hexagon, pentagon, cresent and oval), letters not only by sight but by name and knew that Mommy started with the letter M and Daddy started with the letter D. She has read The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe at least twice on her own. Her vocabulary is beyond even my abilities. She has a 7 year old body but a mind of so much older in a lot of ways. It gets hard sometimes to remember she is only 7.
Anyways- someone posted and said that I should take over the responsibility of the rabbits entirely and let her help when she wants to. She will watch me taking care of them and learn that way. They also said how she showed and interest in something and how I am now punishing her with them. That floored me and got me to thinking. I know this sounds silly but I just never thought of taking care of them for her and allowing her to help if she wanted to. So this morning I asked her if she wanted me to take care of the rabbits completely and she said yes. She was worried that if I did it all that it meant that we would give the rabbits away. I felt so bad and started crying. I never ever ever meant for it to be that way. I just had the public school mentality of they want it then they do it.
I thank everyone of you for emailing me. My parents expected way more of me as a child. More than any child at my age should of handled. I'm trying to get out of that mindset. Thank you for the being truthful with me. That's the only way I learn!
Kimberly
happily taking care of all the animals now! Ha ha! Who knew it could be so good!
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...> wrote: In a community made up entirely of the written word, surely semantics is incredibly important.
On Unschooling_Discussion someone posted a link to Christine Kane's blog and a blogpost about how language shapes perception: http://christinekane.com/blog/watch-your-language/ Maybe reading through someone else's perspective on how words create possibility and bias might help you see why your word choice "caving in" should be questioned on a list about helping parents get to radical unschooling and respectful parenting.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 16 November, 2007 3:41:38 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
I did say that it may be a good idea to amend the rules.....I also think flexibility on the the part of parents is important so that children learn that it is ok to be flexible,to think of other's needs,and that there are many solutions to a problem.I also think that parents are a child's most important role model.I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and to amend others......I thought that's what I said..... I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
My oldest daughter (the one who has the rabbits) was born at 22 weeks gestation and 1.5lbs. She is perfect other than mild cerebral palsy (which you wouldn't even know she had unless you saw her run). She is intelligent beyond her years. At 2 she knew all her colors, shapes (including hexagon, pentagon, cresent and oval), letters not only by sight but by name and knew that Mommy started with the letter M and Daddy started with the letter D. She has read The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe at least twice on her own. Her vocabulary is beyond even my abilities. She has a 7 year old body but a mind of so much older in a lot of ways. It gets hard sometimes to remember she is only 7.
Anyways- someone posted and said that I should take over the responsibility of the rabbits entirely and let her help when she wants to. She will watch me taking care of them and learn that way. They also said how she showed and interest in something and how I am now punishing her with them. That floored me and got me to thinking. I know this sounds silly but I just never thought of taking care of them for her and allowing her to help if she wanted to. So this morning I asked her if she wanted me to take care of the rabbits completely and she said yes. She was worried that if I did it all that it meant that we would give the rabbits away. I felt so bad and started crying. I never ever ever meant for it to be that way. I just had the public school mentality of they want it then they do it.
I thank everyone of you for emailing me. My parents expected way more of me as a child. More than any child at my age should of handled. I'm trying to get out of that mindset. Thank you for the being truthful with me. That's the only way I learn!
Kimberly
happily taking care of all the animals now! Ha ha! Who knew it could be so good!
ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH <s.waynforth@...> wrote: In a community made up entirely of the written word, surely semantics is incredibly important.
On Unschooling_Discussion someone posted a link to Christine Kane's blog and a blogpost about how language shapes perception: http://christinekane.com/blog/watch-your-language/ Maybe reading through someone else's perspective on how words create possibility and bias might help you see why your word choice "caving in" should be questioned on a list about helping parents get to radical unschooling and respectful parenting.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, 16 November, 2007 3:41:38 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
I did say that it may be a good idea to amend the rules.....I also think flexibility on the the part of parents is important so that children learn that it is ok to be flexible,to think of other's needs,and that there are many solutions to a problem.I also think that parents are a child's most important role model.I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and to amend others......I thought that's what I said..... I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: New to unschooling needs advice
~~Maybe you could
explain this to your child,so that she dosen't think you are "caving"
about your
rules.~~
Caving? As in changing your mind or letting go of rules? Why not? Why
would a parent need to NOT "cave"?
That sounds like top-down hierarchy to me and I don't think it's
helpful in the long run. Some rules swirl up out of mutual
consideration for the entire family (I don't think anyone here would
ever want cigarette smoke inside our house) but most of the time rules
are rather arbitrary, decided by some authority figure.
Rather than creating rules for other people, consider the principles
you want to live by as human beings and together decide how to work
with challenges with those principles in mind.
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.34/1134 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 9:52 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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diana jenner
On Nov 16, 2007 7:41 AM, Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...> wrote:
to examine your semantics, your long held ideas of what *should* work and
become open to new ideas and new vocabulary and a brand new perspective.
Unschooling brings a whole different relationship with rules and the *whys*
behind them; it also brings a whole new, trusting, relationship with your
spawn :D
It's not personal, it's the idea, the thoughts :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet myOne of the best ways to know if unschooling is a match is if you are willing
> families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post is ripped
> apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I don't see how that
> helps meet anyone's needs......
> .
>
>
to examine your semantics, your long held ideas of what *should* work and
become open to new ideas and new vocabulary and a brand new perspective.
Unschooling brings a whole different relationship with rules and the *whys*
behind them; it also brings a whole new, trusting, relationship with your
spawn :D
It's not personal, it's the idea, the thoughts :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Bill & Aimee Balch"
<wbab@...> wrote:
my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post
is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I
don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
Ok , I am new to the group as well but, I very much Appreciated
Ren's comments and even though they directed towards someone else, I
benifited from them a great deal. I am here personally not to have a
pat on the back but to have my thinking challenged and if that means
twisting it around and turning it over on it's ear, then I say go
ahead and do it. I believe that the people here care very deeply
about children and only want what's best for them. It's easy for us
to get offended at things and take them personally but look at the
bigger picture people here are trying to help by responding to
request for help. So thank you to all who have responded to my post
and to others! Thank you for caring about our chidren, when so few
people out there do!
<wbab@...> wrote:
>I joined this group to learn if the unschooling lifestyle will meet
my families needs.Is this the type of group where every single post
is ripped apart,and people constantly argue over semantics? If so,I
don't see how that helps meet anyone's needs......
Ok , I am new to the group as well but, I very much Appreciated
Ren's comments and even though they directed towards someone else, I
benifited from them a great deal. I am here personally not to have a
pat on the back but to have my thinking challenged and if that means
twisting it around and turning it over on it's ear, then I say go
ahead and do it. I believe that the people here care very deeply
about children and only want what's best for them. It's easy for us
to get offended at things and take them personally but look at the
bigger picture people here are trying to help by responding to
request for help. So thank you to all who have responded to my post
and to others! Thank you for caring about our chidren, when so few
people out there do!
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I think consistency is *extremely* important.
Not as in "sticking to your guns," but in being consistently honest and
trusting and generous, etc.
When parents are consistently kind and patient and honest and
respectful of children, then a child can forgive a small inconsistency.
But when we're all over the place with our rules and requirements and
punishments, then we're not trustworthy, and children won't believe or
trust us.
I *want* to be consistent with my boys. I *want* them to know I'll
react a certain way to things, to be consistently open and available.
To be afraid of how your parent will react to something
is...well...scary!
I'm always willing to take a second (or third <g>) look at what I've
said or done (and with Duncan, I'd better be! <G>), but if I'm
*consistently* willing to do that, they should never be afraid to
question me. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
I think this relates back to the idea of consistency, which is highly
overrated and actually harmful many times.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I think consistency is *extremely* important.
Not as in "sticking to your guns," but in being consistently honest and
trusting and generous, etc.
When parents are consistently kind and patient and honest and
respectful of children, then a child can forgive a small inconsistency.
But when we're all over the place with our rules and requirements and
punishments, then we're not trustworthy, and children won't believe or
trust us.
I *want* to be consistent with my boys. I *want* them to know I'll
react a certain way to things, to be consistently open and available.
To be afraid of how your parent will react to something
is...well...scary!
I'm always willing to take a second (or third <g>) look at what I've
said or done (and with Duncan, I'd better be! <G>), but if I'm
*consistently* willing to do that, they should never be afraid to
question me. <G>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and
to amend others.
-=-=-=-
What rules should be firm?
What rules *can* be firm? For how long?
What's the penalty for breaking a rule?
What happens when a child breaks a rule and then chooses to lie or
sneak in order to avoid punishment?
How can rules actually work?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
From: Bill & Aimee Balch <wbab@...>
I do think that parents need to remain firm for some of the rules,and
to amend others.
-=-=-=-
What rules should be firm?
What rules *can* be firm? For how long?
What's the penalty for breaking a rule?
What happens when a child breaks a rule and then chooses to lie or
sneak in order to avoid punishment?
How can rules actually work?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com