Susan

-=-=-=-=-
I do not want surprises when he's 15, where he's might do a total
"flip", just like all my friends teenage kids' done. Why the surprise?
That's because when they are teen, they all of a sudden realised they
have a choice, the choice to listen to mum/ dad, or the choice to
follow their heart. Naturally the heart always wins. <snip> Which
explains the moans of "they are not doing what they always do; this
is so unlike them; I don't know why he has changed" "they won't
listen!" . That's because "what they always do", is not their choice
but merely the adults (parents, relatives, society).
-=-=-=-=-

DH & I were talking about this very thing the other night after I
returned from a gathering. It's comprised of women I really like and
normally enjoy spending time with, however as the evening wore on the
conversation turned to parenting teens and things got rather
depressing - on their part because of their bleak outlook and for me
because they couldn't see that it need not be that way.

One mom that I'm particularly close with has a 17 yo son and a 12 yo
daughter. Her daughter usually attends the gatherings with her, but
this time she decided not to come. When I asked her about this my
friend said that lately she's just "not a cool mom anymore" and that
her daughter has been distant and not as affectionate and isn't
willing to spend time with her. She went on to say that things with
her son are not getting any better (their relationship has been going
downhill for a long while). She said, "I feel lonely in my own home,
my kids don't want to interact with me. I'm just not cool to hang out
with anymore."

A bit later the topic came up again and other moms joined in the rant
about their own teens. One mom said it was like an alien creature
suddenly landed in her home. Someone else said her teens are all aloof
and distant and weird and seem to be interested in the strangest
things. Others said similar things - their teens didn't seem to like
them anymore, they didn't know who their friends were now, and that
their teens had become so secretive and angry and closed-off. They
were relating these things in a lighthearted "that's life" type of
manner but I could hear the sadness and bitter resignation underneath
the joking tone.

I said something like, "See, stories like this have worried me and
I've thought about it a lot." I shared my desire to have a different
type of relationship with my kids when they are teens, by consciously
choosing to create and cultivate that connection NOW.

My laughed bitterly and said, 'It doesn't matter what you plan for.
Nothing you can do will make a difference - they're going to reach an
age where they don't like you anymore and you don't know them and they
won't listen to you and things just go to hell." The other moms agreed
- some huffed up and snorted in amusement at my wild ideas while
others responded with concern that I was setting myself up for a big
hurtful failure.

I shook my head in disagreement and said, 'I don't think so" but I
didn't feel comfortable pushing the issue. As I got silent the topic
once again turned to complaints about how teens don't want to hang out
with (or even talk to or be seen with) their parents. All I could
think of was the wonderful images of the L&L dance and all the teens
and parents and younger kids hanging out together and having a *great*
time. I was saddened that it's an image so far removed from their
world that they couldn't even begin to fathom it.

When I came home I shared this experience with Chris and we talked
through it. We basically reaffirmed that YES we will have a connected
relationship with our future teens and what we do now and tomorrow and
each day afterward *does* make a difference. Meeting all of the
awesome teens at L&L (and seeing them interact with their parents) has
been a big, shiny source of hope for us. Thank goodness I had the joy
of observing those happy, healthy relationships before this
conversation came up in a face-to-face discussion, otherwise I might
tend to think that perhaps I *was* just being too optimistic and maybe
a good parent/teen relationship only exists in the realm of
far-fetched myths.

~ Susan

trektheory

Reading all this was interesting, in part because I have a nearly 16
yo son.

I think there is a huge variance. And there may or may not be much we
can do -- I'm really not sure there, because I only have one, plus my
observations of others.

When my ds was younger, we went to a hs lit. discussion group, run by
a radical unschooler mom. Among other books, we did the Harry Potter
books. When the 5th book came out (that gives you an idea how long
ago it was!) the mom said, "BOY, did JK Rowling have 15 yo boys
pegged!" Her son - a real sweetie from all I had seen - was 15.

Another mom, locally, has a son a year older than mine. They had a
ton of conflict during that 15 yr age bit, that subsided somewhat at
16 (though not completely.) They are more traditional homeschoolers.
They have a LOT of testosterone running in that family, though,
including the mom. (She said she always had a high sex drive and such.)

However, I do know some families that have NOT encountered a similar
experience, my own included. My ds is as sweet and
easy-to-get-along-with as ever. So, I suspect innate temperment may
have something to do with it, or temperments that work well together
vs ones that clash (and, later, that settles down as maturity kicks
in.) Or something else. I dunno.

I also always got along with my mom. (My dad and I occasionally
conflicted, because he wouldn't listen to reason -- I was, overall, a
pretty easy-to-get-along-with kid.) And, despite the stereotypes, she
liked my friends, I like my friends' mothers (and they seemed to like
me fine) -- so, were we atypical, or is the stereotype just wrong? I
dunno that, either. (I don't know much, do I?)

Linda, the ignorant

--- In [email protected], Susan <SusanYvonne@...> wrote:
>
> -=-=-=-=-
> I do not want surprises when he's 15, where he's might do a total
> "flip", just like all my friends teenage kids' done. Why the surprise?
> That's because when they are teen, they all of a sudden realised they
> have a choice, the choice to listen to mum/ dad, or the choice to
> follow their heart. Naturally the heart always wins. <snip> Which
> explains the moans of "they are not doing what they always do; this
> is so unlike them; I don't know why he has changed" "they won't
> listen!" . That's because "what they always do", is not their choice
> but merely the adults (parents, relatives, society).
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> DH & I were talking about this very thing the other night after I
> returned from a gathering. It's comprised of women I really like and
> normally enjoy spending time with, however as the evening wore on the
> conversation turned to parenting teens and things got rather
> depressing - on their part because of their bleak outlook and for me
> because they couldn't see that it need not be that way.
>
> One mom that I'm particularly close with has a 17 yo son and a 12 yo
> daughter. Her daughter usually attends the gatherings with her, but
> this time she decided not to come. When I asked her about this my
> friend said that lately she's just "not a cool mom anymore" and that
> her daughter has been distant and not as affectionate and isn't
> willing to spend time with her. She went on to say that things with
> her son are not getting any better (their relationship has been going
> downhill for a long while). She said, "I feel lonely in my own home,
> my kids don't want to interact with me. I'm just not cool to hang out
> with anymore."
>
> A bit later the topic came up again and other moms joined in the rant
> about their own teens. One mom said it was like an alien creature
> suddenly landed in her home. Someone else said her teens are all aloof
> and distant and weird and seem to be interested in the strangest
> things. Others said similar things - their teens didn't seem to like
> them anymore, they didn't know who their friends were now, and that
> their teens had become so secretive and angry and closed-off. They
> were relating these things in a lighthearted "that's life" type of
> manner but I could hear the sadness and bitter resignation underneath
> the joking tone.
>
> I said something like, "See, stories like this have worried me and
> I've thought about it a lot." I shared my desire to have a different
> type of relationship with my kids when they are teens, by consciously
> choosing to create and cultivate that connection NOW.
>
> My laughed bitterly and said, 'It doesn't matter what you plan for.
> Nothing you can do will make a difference - they're going to reach an
> age where they don't like you anymore and you don't know them and they
> won't listen to you and things just go to hell." The other moms agreed
> - some huffed up and snorted in amusement at my wild ideas while
> others responded with concern that I was setting myself up for a big
> hurtful failure.
>
> I shook my head in disagreement and said, 'I don't think so" but I
> didn't feel comfortable pushing the issue. As I got silent the topic
> once again turned to complaints about how teens don't want to hang out
> with (or even talk to or be seen with) their parents. All I could
> think of was the wonderful images of the L&L dance and all the teens
> and parents and younger kids hanging out together and having a *great*
> time. I was saddened that it's an image so far removed from their
> world that they couldn't even begin to fathom it.
>
> When I came home I shared this experience with Chris and we talked
> through it. We basically reaffirmed that YES we will have a connected
> relationship with our future teens and what we do now and tomorrow and
> each day afterward *does* make a difference. Meeting all of the
> awesome teens at L&L (and seeing them interact with their parents) has
> been a big, shiny source of hope for us. Thank goodness I had the joy
> of observing those happy, healthy relationships before this
> conversation came up in a face-to-face discussion, otherwise I might
> tend to think that perhaps I *was* just being too optimistic and maybe
> a good parent/teen relationship only exists in the realm of
> far-fetched myths.
>
> ~ Susan
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 2, 2007, at 1:58 PM, trektheory wrote:

> I think there is a huge variance. And there may or may not be much we
> can do

I think we can't ultimately make huge effects on nature -- like turn
a quiet person into a talkative person -- but we can eliminate the
factors that will nurture negativity.

> Another mom, locally, has a son a year older than mine. They had a
> ton of conflict during that 15 yr age bit, that subsided somewhat at
> 16 (though not completely.) They are more traditional homeschoolers.
>
Which isn't, in terms of respecting a child, much different than
schoolers. No matter how nice the parents are, when what kids think
their time is best used for is superseded by what the parents think
the time is best used for, it's going to sow seeds of discontent. The
seeds may not grow into huge towering red woods as they are *more
likely* (though not inevitably) to do with schooled kids, but they do
grow nonetheless.

I think one of the most helpful things parents can do when they're in
the midst of a struggle with their child is to think about what
effect it will have on the child when the child has a problem the
parent may not approve of. If the child is being treated in a way
that's likely to make them go to someone else with their problem
rather than a parent, the parent needs to rethink their approach.

If we can treat them with kindness and understanding when they spill
their dinner or come home later than they had planned, they're way
more likely to come to us when more serious teen problems come their
way.

If their music and TV shows and the way they spend their time and the
way the dress and their choice of friends is treated with the same
respect we appreciate for our choices for ourselves, then when
they're teens we've given them far fewer reasons to think we don't
understand them.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

healthunlimited1

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:

> If we can treat them with kindness and understanding when they spill
> their dinner or come home later than they had planned, they're way
> more likely to come to us when more serious teen problems come their
> way.
>
> If their music and TV shows and the way they spend their time and the
> way the dress and their choice of friends is treated with the same
> respect we appreciate for our choices for ourselves, then when
> they're teens we've given them far fewer reasons to think we don't
> understand them.


I have been so thankful for the relationships my husband and I have with our teenage
boys. Our boys have never been embarrassed to be seen with us and they never went
through "you're stupid" stage. Occasionally we would get attitudes with raging hormones
but that would be short lived. My oldest is 19 and my youngest is 14. I think that we have
always had mutual respect for one another. And, we have always encouraged and
supported their interests no matter what. We've allowed them to make decisions about
their lives (with our guidance). We've allowed them to go through stages of doing things
that maybe we weren't crazy about but we carefully let them go through it and trusted
them to do the right thing. I remember when my oldest was in 12th grade... it was the
beginning of the school year. He got a band together with people I wasn't crazy about. It
made me nervous... but I made a point to get to know the kids and have them over. I told
Justin that I trusted him to do the right things no matter what these other kids did. It
turned out that all in all these kids were ok. They were a little rough around the edges
and many of them didn't have good home lives and no guidance at all. To the outsider it
probably looked like I just let Justin go and do whatever with these kids. But I watched
them like a hawk. I told Justin that I was allowing him to go and do but if I start noticing
strange behavior from him I"m yanking up the rope. We always told him (and Austyn) that
"you be the influencer NOT the influencee". Justin was fine through that crazy band
experience. He eventually got his fill of those kids and left the band. I would imagine had
we forbid him to be with those kids and in that band?.... he might have rebelled in some
way. It ended up be a good learning experience for him in many ways. And by the way
their music was awful ....LOL... I hated it but we were there at every show supporting them.

Anyway.... I agree.... giving our teenagers support, kindness, love, and respect is key. Stay
involved in their activities and lives. Just because we homeschool doens't always mean
that we are actively involved in their interests. Course... I think as unschoolers there is
certainly more of that.

Shileen

lyeping2607

My oldest is 19 and my youngest is 14. I think that we have
> always had mutual respect for one another. And, we have always
encouraged and supported their interests no matter what. We've
allowed them to make decisions about their lives (with our
guidance). We've allowed them to go through stages of doing things
> that maybe we weren't crazy about but we carefully let them go
through it and trusted them to do the right thing. I remember when
my oldest was in 12th grade... it was the beginning of the school
year. He got a band together with people I wasn't crazy about. It
> made me nervous... but I made a point to get to know the kids and
have them over. I told Justin that I trusted him to do the right
things no matter what these other kids did. It turned out that all
in all these kids were ok. They were a little rough around the
edges and many of them didn't have good home lives and no guidance
at all. To the outsider it probably looked like I just let Justin
go and do whatever with these kids. But I watched
> them like a hawk. I told Justin that I was allowing him to go and
do but if I start noticing strange behavior from him I"m yanking up
the rope. We always told him (and Austyn) that "you be the
influencer NOT the influencee". Justin was fine through that crazy
band experience. He eventually got his fill of those kids and left
the band. I would imagine had we forbid him to be with those kids
and in that band?.... he might have rebelled in some
> way. It ended up be a good learning experience for him in many
ways. And by the way their music was awful ....LOL... I hated it
but we were there at every show supporting them.

Hi Shileen,
Thanks for sharing this. It is certainly a comfort for me to have a
rough insight to what might be, and how it might turn out, when my
child turns teen.

Sharon.

healthunlimited1

--- In [email protected], "lyeping2607" <lyeping2607@...> wrote:
>
> My oldest is 19 and my youngest is 14. I think that we have
> > always had mutual respect for one another. And, we have always
> encouraged and supported their interests no matter what. We've
> allowed them to make decisions about their lives (with our
> guidance). We've allowed them to go through stages of doing things
> > that maybe we weren't crazy about but we carefully let them go
> through it and trusted them to do the right thing. I remember when
> my oldest was in 12th grade... it was the beginning of the school
> year. He got a band together with people I wasn't crazy about. It
> > made me nervous... but I made a point to get to know the kids and
> have them over. I told Justin that I trusted him to do the right
> things no matter what these other kids did. It turned out that all
> in all these kids were ok. They were a little rough around the
> edges and many of them didn't have good home lives and no guidance
> at all. To the outsider it probably looked like I just let Justin
> go and do whatever with these kids. But I watched
> > them like a hawk. I told Justin that I was allowing him to go and
> do but if I start noticing strange behavior from him I"m yanking up
> the rope. We always told him (and Austyn) that "you be the
> influencer NOT the influencee". Justin was fine through that crazy
> band experience. He eventually got his fill of those kids and left
> the band. I would imagine had we forbid him to be with those kids
> and in that band?.... he might have rebelled in some
> > way. It ended up be a good learning experience for him in many
> ways. And by the way their music was awful ....LOL... I hated it
> but we were there at every show supporting them.
>
> Hi Shileen,
> Thanks for sharing this. It is certainly a comfort for me to have a
> rough insight to what might be, and how it might turn out, when my
> child turns teen.
>
> Sharon.

You welcome. Glad it was helpful!! ~~ Shileen
>