Unschooling & College
jennefer harper
>But I don't like to see someone create (evenCan you elaborate on this, please. Because, isn't
>inadvertently) a "culture"
>where going to college is considered an affront to
>unschooling.
>-pam
>National Home Education Network
><www.NHEN.org>
college really just another school with teachers? I
know there seems to be much more freedom in college,
but, being new to unschooling, I just haven't heard
much from your point of view on this.
Thanks,
Jennefer
__________________________________
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Fetteroll
on 8/13/04 2:10 AM, jennefer harper at jenneferh2000@... wrote:
If someone is going to college as a hoop to jump through to get a good job,
it's no different than going to public school.
If someone is going because college is the way they would like to explore
what interests them, then that's a more unschoolish reason.
Joyce
> Because, isn'tDepends on the college and why someone is going.
> college really just another school with teachers?
If someone is going to college as a hoop to jump through to get a good job,
it's no different than going to public school.
If someone is going because college is the way they would like to explore
what interests them, then that's a more unschoolish reason.
Joyce
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
I'll let Pam answer for herself, but the thing that I want is for my kids to
make their own choice about college based on if they're interested, if some
goal they have would make college meaningful and useful, and perhaps based
on checking out and visiting college. Would I would not like is for my kids
to make a decision about college or anything else they may *want* to do
based on someone else's opinion that it is uncool, or someone else creating
an atmosphere where it is subliminally uncool or "anti-unschooling"....
To me the issue is an atmosphere in which to make their own choice...
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
-----Original Message-----
From: jennefer harper [mailto:jenneferh2000@...]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling & College
college really just another school with teachers? I
know there seems to be much more freedom in college,
but, being new to unschooling, I just haven't heard
much from your point of view on this.
Thanks,
Jennefer
__________________________________
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Yahoo! Groups Links
make their own choice about college based on if they're interested, if some
goal they have would make college meaningful and useful, and perhaps based
on checking out and visiting college. Would I would not like is for my kids
to make a decision about college or anything else they may *want* to do
based on someone else's opinion that it is uncool, or someone else creating
an atmosphere where it is subliminally uncool or "anti-unschooling"....
To me the issue is an atmosphere in which to make their own choice...
Joan
************************
"I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than
live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it." ... Harry
Emerson Fosdick
-----Original Message-----
From: jennefer harper [mailto:jenneferh2000@...]
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling & College
>But I don't like to see someone create (evenCan you elaborate on this, please. Because, isn't
>inadvertently) a "culture"
>where going to college is considered an affront to
>unschooling.
>-pam
>National Home Education Network
><www.NHEN.org>
college really just another school with teachers? I
know there seems to be much more freedom in college,
but, being new to unschooling, I just haven't heard
much from your point of view on this.
Thanks,
Jennefer
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Yahoo! Groups Links
Crystal
> >But I don't like to see someone create (even inadvertentlya "culture" where going to college is considered an affront to
unschooling.-pam
>Because, isn't college really just another school with teachers? I
know there seems to be much more freedom in college, but, being new
to unschooling, I just haven't heard much from your point of view on
this. Thanks,-Jennefer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Jennefer,
Here's my take on college. My 14-yo daughter draws all day. Oh,
yeah, she listens to music too. She loves to draw and sing and sees
nothing further in her life right now, meaning, she isn't thinking
about going to college or not going. She is just being in the right
now. I see no reason to drill college into her head. She may or
may not go, and why does she need to take a lot of classes she
doesn't like and end up with a degree in Liberal Arts or some other
useless thing just to say she went to college. To her, college IS
just another school with teachers, even if it is freer.
I think Pam was saying that she would hate for people to avoid
college only because it's not unschooling. College can be necessary
in some fields. Nursing is one. Teaching is another. Therapists
have to go to college. But, you don't have to go to college to own
your own business.
There are some fields where talent will get you the job, but
eventually a degree will move you ahead of the others, like being a
chef, or maybe something with art and drawing. You don't have to
have a degree to start your own restaurant, just some core knowledge
of cooking and sanitation and good business sense. My friend took
half of a cooking course that would have led to a certificate in
Culinary Arts. She took the main courses, then opened her own
restaurant. She's been making money at it for two years now. She
doesn't need a degree because she doesn't plan on ever working for
someone else. If her restaurant failed, she would open another
business, I'm sure.
My 15-yo son wants to be a chef. He spends his days cooking--and
then trying to get us to taste his creations <g>. He is gaining so
much knowledge in the area, stuff that I wouldn't in a million years
know. He knew the answer to a question on Who Wants to be a
Millionaire about the origin of the cooking wine, Sherry, yesterday
(it was Spain). I guessed France. He is totally unschooling this.
He received money recently to be used for "educational or medical
expenses" so he's been trying to figure out what constitutes
educational. Yesterday he asked me if he could pay for our trip to
the conference and call that educational. I said yes, (but that he
didn't have to). Later he stated that he could even go food
shopping and count that as educational. I told him he was right
(everything counts, right). He said, "this unschooling stuff is
cool".
Anyway, he's at a point where he wants to cook with others. He
wants to see how pros do it. I've talked to a few chefs but he
can't go into their kitchens because of his age, so I've been
looking into both informal and formal cooking classes. The chefs I
know have told me that when Sean is old enough to work in a kitchen,
the applicant with the most talent will get the job. So, he is
working on talent. Eventually, though, most chef's talent is going
to even out to a point where a degree in culinary arts is what is
going to be the deciding factor in getting hired. So, we know that
eventually he will need to get a degree (go to college). He knows
that he can go to college on his own schedule, though. He can go at
16 or 26, whenever he decides he is ready. He is also free to go
full time, or take a class here and there. He doesn't have to be on
their timetable at all. When he does go, it will be because that is
where he wants to be, it will be because he knows college is the
next step in moving forward in life. He won't be going because he
was expected to go.
Crystal
Valerie
> Because, isn't college really just another school with teachers? Inew
> know there seems to be much more freedom in college, but, being
> to unschooling, I just haven't heard much from your point of viewon
> this. Thanks,-Jennefer***** For Laurie, college was a choice she made. That alone makes it
different from compulsory schooling. I don't ever remember
suggesting that she go to college while she was growing up. I said
something like, "If you ever decide to go to college, you do have
the option." After spending her life doing as she pleased, at age 18
she decided to go. I was totally shocked because she had never
mentioned it before. She absolutely loved/loves it. (she begins work
on her PhD this month)
She had to take a few classes that she probably wouldn't have chosen
if she didn't need them to earn a degree, but she enjoyed each and
every class and thrived on all of the new info pouring into her
mind. She also took quite a few classes that she didn't need because
they sounded interesting. She went two semesters after graduating
just for fun.
Unschoolers raised in freedom weren't bored for 12 years in school
being forced to "learn" what didn't interest them. Their attitudes
in college are totally different from the average college student
who is there because he feels it's the thing he "should" do.
Unschoolers get more out of life and college is just one of the many
choices they have before them. For Laurie, it was THE best choice
she could have made. She says she can't imagine a year of her life
where she doesn't take at least one class.
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Crystal"
<crystal.pina@v...> wrote:
retired or even on maternity leave? Someone who might be missing
cooking but doesn't have the time/energy/reason to do much cooking
but would love to have a student to cook with and for...
--aj
<crystal.pina@v...> wrote:
> Anyway, he's at a point where he wants to cook with others. HeThat's so cool. What about finding a chef who isn't working--someone
> wants to see how pros do it. I've talked to a few chefs but he
> can't go into their kitchens because of his age, so I've been
> looking into both informal and formal cooking classes.
retired or even on maternity leave? Someone who might be missing
cooking but doesn't have the time/energy/reason to do much cooking
but would love to have a student to cook with and for...
--aj
pam sorooshian
On Aug 12, 2004, at 11:10 PM, jennefer harper wrote:
wanted. Eventually moving to taking classes required for what they want
to do in the future.
I know kids who negotiated their entire college curriculum.
I think we could debate forever whether or not college is worthwhile -
but, truth is, there are degrees people might want and careers they
might want that require degrees. I know - somebody is almost guaranteed
to write about how they know somebody got the career of their dreams
without college - right, we know that it is possible - but the point is
that there are careers that will need degrees and there are kids who
will revel in college and get a HUGE amount out of it.
People have different experiences in college - and unschoolers who go
to college have different experiences - VERY different ones - than
those of us who went from high school to college. And every kid is
different and every college is different.
I am NOT saying that college ought to be the goal for everybody.
But, college can be viewed as a smorgasbord of resources - the list of
things my kids have done and had access to is incredible - and the
human resources (teachers, lab techs, other students) have been
wonderful -- it has really contributed to my kids lives in a super
positive way.
Roya has taken photography - used the lab AND a great camera from the
college. She learned to make mural prints and had some of them, along
with some of her poetry, displayed at an art gallery in Laguna Beach,
California. She got a behind-the-scenes tour of a photo museum. She
took ceramics and got a job (recommended by her teacher) at a clay and
glazes company and also got a job as a lab tech in the ceramics lab.
She was on the forensics team - got a chance to debate all over the
state. She sang with a performance group called Vocal Eclipse and
learned to sing jazz style. She took printmaking. She took several
writing courses - beyond the basic college writing class. History of
Film was incredible - she learned so much about film and shared it with
us - we had a blast. She also took piano classes and vocal classes. She
took costume design and stage lighting design and those were classes in
which they worked on shows that the theater department and dance
departments were doing. She took a marine biology class which went on 5
field trips - tide pools and out on a boat and behind-the-scenes at an
aquarium, etc.
And on and on... there were more mundane read-the-book and
take-the-test classes mixed in there, too. But she really made the most
of all her classes - the maximum extent possible. She had a math class
that was pretty much just a regular math class - but she asked the
teacher if she could get extra credit by reading one of Steven
Hawking's books and writing about it.
So - our experience with college has been wonderful. I just hate to see
a "culture" develop in which unschooled kids are actively discouraged
from trying out college - that would be going too far. I like to see
them encouraged to do it on their terms and not to do it if it doesn't
suit them.
--pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Can you elaborate on this, please. Because, isn'tMy kids have done college on their own terms - taken the classes they
> college really just another school with teachers? I
> know there seems to be much more freedom in college,
> but, being new to unschooling, I just haven't heard
> much from your point of view on this.
wanted. Eventually moving to taking classes required for what they want
to do in the future.
I know kids who negotiated their entire college curriculum.
I think we could debate forever whether or not college is worthwhile -
but, truth is, there are degrees people might want and careers they
might want that require degrees. I know - somebody is almost guaranteed
to write about how they know somebody got the career of their dreams
without college - right, we know that it is possible - but the point is
that there are careers that will need degrees and there are kids who
will revel in college and get a HUGE amount out of it.
People have different experiences in college - and unschoolers who go
to college have different experiences - VERY different ones - than
those of us who went from high school to college. And every kid is
different and every college is different.
I am NOT saying that college ought to be the goal for everybody.
But, college can be viewed as a smorgasbord of resources - the list of
things my kids have done and had access to is incredible - and the
human resources (teachers, lab techs, other students) have been
wonderful -- it has really contributed to my kids lives in a super
positive way.
Roya has taken photography - used the lab AND a great camera from the
college. She learned to make mural prints and had some of them, along
with some of her poetry, displayed at an art gallery in Laguna Beach,
California. She got a behind-the-scenes tour of a photo museum. She
took ceramics and got a job (recommended by her teacher) at a clay and
glazes company and also got a job as a lab tech in the ceramics lab.
She was on the forensics team - got a chance to debate all over the
state. She sang with a performance group called Vocal Eclipse and
learned to sing jazz style. She took printmaking. She took several
writing courses - beyond the basic college writing class. History of
Film was incredible - she learned so much about film and shared it with
us - we had a blast. She also took piano classes and vocal classes. She
took costume design and stage lighting design and those were classes in
which they worked on shows that the theater department and dance
departments were doing. She took a marine biology class which went on 5
field trips - tide pools and out on a boat and behind-the-scenes at an
aquarium, etc.
And on and on... there were more mundane read-the-book and
take-the-test classes mixed in there, too. But she really made the most
of all her classes - the maximum extent possible. She had a math class
that was pretty much just a regular math class - but she asked the
teacher if she could get extra credit by reading one of Steven
Hawking's books and writing about it.
So - our experience with college has been wonderful. I just hate to see
a "culture" develop in which unschooled kids are actively discouraged
from trying out college - that would be going too far. I like to see
them encouraged to do it on their terms and not to do it if it doesn't
suit them.
--pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/2004 3:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
My 15-yo son wants to be a chef. He spends his days cooking--and
then trying to get us to taste his creations <g>. He is gaining so
much knowledge in the area, stuff that I wouldn't in a million years
know. He knew the answer to a question on Who Wants to be a
Millionaire about the origin of the cooking wine, Sherry, yesterday
(it was Spain). I guessed France. He is totally unschooling this.
He received money recently to be used for "educational or medical
expenses" so he's been trying to figure out what constitutes
educational. Yesterday he asked me if he could pay for our trip to
the conference and call that educational. I said yes, (but that he
didn't have to). Later he stated that he could even go food
shopping and count that as educational. I told him he was right
(everything counts, right). He said, "this unschooling stuff is
cool".
Anyway, he's at a point where he wants to cook with others. He
wants to see how pros do it. I've talked to a few chefs but he
can't go into their kitchens because of his age, so I've been
looking into both informal and formal cooking classes. The chefs I
know have told me that when Sean is old enough to work in a kitchen,
the applicant with the most talent will get the job. So, he is
working on talent. Eventually, though, most chef's talent is going
to even out to a point where a degree in culinary arts is what is
going to be the deciding factor in getting hired. So, we know that
eventually he will need to get a degree (go to college). He knows
that he can go to college on his own schedule, though. He can go at
16 or 26, whenever he decides he is ready. He is also free to go
full time, or take a class here and there. He doesn't have to be on
their timetable at all. When he does go, it will be because that is
where he wants to be, it will be because he knows college is the
next step in moving forward in life. He won't be going because he
was expected to go.
Crystal
Oh! this is the coolest thing! It was in the Boston Globe a bit ago. Two
young teenagers who run a catering business. They're in school, but very cool.
Here's the article:
http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articles/2004/07/21/the_caterers_are_kids/
and their website:
www.wacatering.net
Kathryn
Kathryn Baptista, Conference Coordinator
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
My 15-yo son wants to be a chef. He spends his days cooking--and
then trying to get us to taste his creations <g>. He is gaining so
much knowledge in the area, stuff that I wouldn't in a million years
know. He knew the answer to a question on Who Wants to be a
Millionaire about the origin of the cooking wine, Sherry, yesterday
(it was Spain). I guessed France. He is totally unschooling this.
He received money recently to be used for "educational or medical
expenses" so he's been trying to figure out what constitutes
educational. Yesterday he asked me if he could pay for our trip to
the conference and call that educational. I said yes, (but that he
didn't have to). Later he stated that he could even go food
shopping and count that as educational. I told him he was right
(everything counts, right). He said, "this unschooling stuff is
cool".
Anyway, he's at a point where he wants to cook with others. He
wants to see how pros do it. I've talked to a few chefs but he
can't go into their kitchens because of his age, so I've been
looking into both informal and formal cooking classes. The chefs I
know have told me that when Sean is old enough to work in a kitchen,
the applicant with the most talent will get the job. So, he is
working on talent. Eventually, though, most chef's talent is going
to even out to a point where a degree in culinary arts is what is
going to be the deciding factor in getting hired. So, we know that
eventually he will need to get a degree (go to college). He knows
that he can go to college on his own schedule, though. He can go at
16 or 26, whenever he decides he is ready. He is also free to go
full time, or take a class here and there. He doesn't have to be on
their timetable at all. When he does go, it will be because that is
where he wants to be, it will be because he knows college is the
next step in moving forward in life. He won't be going because he
was expected to go.
Crystal
Oh! this is the coolest thing! It was in the Boston Globe a bit ago. Two
young teenagers who run a catering business. They're in school, but very cool.
Here's the article:
http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articles/2004/07/21/the_caterers_are_kids/
and their website:
www.wacatering.net
Kathryn
Kathryn Baptista, Conference Coordinator
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Crystal
What about finding a chef who isn't working--someone
I didn't think of this. Thanks. Maybe SCORE or my local senior
center would know someone. I'll check it out.
Crystal
> retired or even on maternity leave? Someone who might be missing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> cooking but doesn't have the time/energy/reason to do much cooking
> but would love to have a student to cook with and for...
>
> --aj
I didn't think of this. Thanks. Maybe SCORE or my local senior
center would know someone. I'll check it out.
Crystal
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/2004 2:44:49 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Roya has taken photography - used the lab AND a great camera from the
college. She learned to make mural prints and had some of them, along
with some of her poetry, displayed at an art gallery in Laguna Beach,
California. She got a behind-the-scenes tour of a photo museum. She
took ceramics and got a job (recommended by her teacher) at a clay and
glazes company and also got a job as a lab tech in the ceramics lab.
She was on the forensics team - got a chance to debate all over the
state. She sang with a performance group called Vocal Eclipse and
learned to sing jazz style. She took printmaking. She took several
writing courses - beyond the basic college writing class. History of
Film was incredible - she learned so much about film and shared it with
us - we had a blast. She also took piano classes and vocal classes. She
took costume design and stage lighting design and those were classes in
which they worked on shows that the theater department and dance
departments were doing. She took a marine biology class which went on 5
field trips - tide pools and out on a boat and behind-the-scenes at an
aquarium, etc.
~~~
A lot of us don't live where these opportunities are readily available.
It's a lot of work to make these kinds of opportunities happen. There's just
one community college in this whole area (besides the for-profit technical
colleges), eclipsed by the one major university. That one community college is
very academic. I tried to get information on being a non-traditional student
(for myself), and they barely knew what I was talking about. They wanted me
in a 2 year degree program. Most of the classes in the catalog were designed
for the degree programs and looked mind numbing. (They weren't standalone
classes, is what I mean.)
I appreciate that Roya did all those things, because it shows me what a
wonderful range of things there are to do. But I think it should be noted, too,
for the sake of the new unschoolers, that sometimes in some areas those
opportunities have to be hunted up or created, and that it will take determination
and effort.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Roya has taken photography - used the lab AND a great camera from the
college. She learned to make mural prints and had some of them, along
with some of her poetry, displayed at an art gallery in Laguna Beach,
California. She got a behind-the-scenes tour of a photo museum. She
took ceramics and got a job (recommended by her teacher) at a clay and
glazes company and also got a job as a lab tech in the ceramics lab.
She was on the forensics team - got a chance to debate all over the
state. She sang with a performance group called Vocal Eclipse and
learned to sing jazz style. She took printmaking. She took several
writing courses - beyond the basic college writing class. History of
Film was incredible - she learned so much about film and shared it with
us - we had a blast. She also took piano classes and vocal classes. She
took costume design and stage lighting design and those were classes in
which they worked on shows that the theater department and dance
departments were doing. She took a marine biology class which went on 5
field trips - tide pools and out on a boat and behind-the-scenes at an
aquarium, etc.
~~~
A lot of us don't live where these opportunities are readily available.
It's a lot of work to make these kinds of opportunities happen. There's just
one community college in this whole area (besides the for-profit technical
colleges), eclipsed by the one major university. That one community college is
very academic. I tried to get information on being a non-traditional student
(for myself), and they barely knew what I was talking about. They wanted me
in a 2 year degree program. Most of the classes in the catalog were designed
for the degree programs and looked mind numbing. (They weren't standalone
classes, is what I mean.)
I appreciate that Roya did all those things, because it shows me what a
wonderful range of things there are to do. But I think it should be noted, too,
for the sake of the new unschoolers, that sometimes in some areas those
opportunities have to be hunted up or created, and that it will take determination
and effort.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Aug 14, 2004, at 5:31 AM, Tuckervill@... wrote:
though, because they are not. My point was that I'm concerned about a
sense I have that unschooled kids are actively being discouraged from
thinking college is a good option. It is (or can be) SO different from
k12 schooling - the choices CAN be so amazing and the fact that people
are not compelled to be there makes such a difference.
I'd expect unschooled kids to do the work it takes to find a good fit
for themselves, if they are contemplating college. Not just "any"
college is going to be fantastic for any unschooled kid.
HOWEVER - I also would say not to give up too easily. I have a friend
who was unschooled and when he went to college (just a rather mundane
state university) he quickly discovered that the "intro" classes in a
subject were almost always boring - and intended to get you ready to
take the "real" courses which were far more interesting. He was used to
learning vocabulary and basics as he needed them (this is called
'just-in-time' learning by professional educators). So he petitioned,
over and over, to skip the intro classes and go right into the more
interesting ones. He managed to do that in a lot of subjects. He also
petitioned to have different classes counted toward his degree than the
ones listed in the catalog. Got a lot of that, too. He had to be pretty
convincing - and not give up at the first discouraging outcome.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I appreciate that Roya did all those things, because it shows me what aAbsolutely. My point was not that these things are available everywhere
> wonderful range of things there are to do. But I think it should be
> noted, too,
> for the sake of the new unschoolers, that sometimes in some areas those
> opportunities have to be hunted up or created, and that it will take
> determination
> and effort.
>
though, because they are not. My point was that I'm concerned about a
sense I have that unschooled kids are actively being discouraged from
thinking college is a good option. It is (or can be) SO different from
k12 schooling - the choices CAN be so amazing and the fact that people
are not compelled to be there makes such a difference.
I'd expect unschooled kids to do the work it takes to find a good fit
for themselves, if they are contemplating college. Not just "any"
college is going to be fantastic for any unschooled kid.
HOWEVER - I also would say not to give up too easily. I have a friend
who was unschooled and when he went to college (just a rather mundane
state university) he quickly discovered that the "intro" classes in a
subject were almost always boring - and intended to get you ready to
take the "real" courses which were far more interesting. He was used to
learning vocabulary and basics as he needed them (this is called
'just-in-time' learning by professional educators). So he petitioned,
over and over, to skip the intro classes and go right into the more
interesting ones. He managed to do that in a lot of subjects. He also
petitioned to have different classes counted toward his degree than the
ones listed in the catalog. Got a lot of that, too. He had to be pretty
convincing - and not give up at the first discouraging outcome.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/2004 10:17:50 AM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Absolutely. My point was not that these things are available everywhere
though, because they are not. My point was that I'm concerned about a
sense I have that unschooled kids are actively being discouraged from
thinking college is a good option. It is (or can be) SO different from
k12 schooling - the choices CAN be so amazing and the fact that people
are not compelled to be there makes such a difference.
~~~
And I agree. :)
Sometimes those unschooling success stories can be intimidating to people
who are new to the ideas. I especially don't like it when people see
unschooling as a "method" to get the result they expect from a top school-at-homer.
Some people do get that idea from whirlwind lives like Roya's. I know you've
encountered it and I know you agree. I just wanted to point it out again.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Absolutely. My point was not that these things are available everywhere
though, because they are not. My point was that I'm concerned about a
sense I have that unschooled kids are actively being discouraged from
thinking college is a good option. It is (or can be) SO different from
k12 schooling - the choices CAN be so amazing and the fact that people
are not compelled to be there makes such a difference.
~~~
And I agree. :)
Sometimes those unschooling success stories can be intimidating to people
who are new to the ideas. I especially don't like it when people see
unschooling as a "method" to get the result they expect from a top school-at-homer.
Some people do get that idea from whirlwind lives like Roya's. I know you've
encountered it and I know you agree. I just wanted to point it out again.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Aug 14, 2004, at 9:03 AM, Tuckervill@... wrote:
just a great example of what kids CAN get from college, because she
immersed herself in it for the past few years and had so much fun. In
fact, Roya calls herself an "experience junkie."
Rox does musical theater and plays computer games for hours and hours
and hours. She's brilliant (imo, of course) and she's a writer and a
seriously deep critical thinker - but she's not a "dabbler" - not
wanting to try everything in the world out just for the experience.
Rosie is an athlete and a social kid. She has NO interest in taking the
community college classes. She's very clear on what she's interested in
or not interested in and it is mostly physical activity. Lately she is
making music mixes and burning them on cd's and trading them with
friends. She also plays D&D and Magic, the Gathering and other games.
She hangs out on the computer and IM's with her friends, trades online
quizzes, and writes on "livejournal."
People should look at the OWN kids and really see how wonderful they
are - because they ARE. Each is a unique and amazing human being.
Karen is VERY right to warn against comparing our own kids to others -
it is a terrible mistake and leads you down a path of disappointment
and frustration. Remember, we tend to write about our kids' strengths
and talents and successes here. And - readers sometimes smush them all
together in their minds into one composite "wonder-unschooler" and
their own real-life kids don't stack up too well to that imaginary
superstar.
Trust me - my kids are NOT perfect. AND, in fact, the very most
wonderful things about them even have their negative sides. Roya's
incredible energy and high activity level and interest in EVERYTHING -
is exhausting and messy and there were many times in her life I worried
that she'd never settle on anything long enough to get any sense of
accomplishment from it. And, she dominates things - expects the rest of
us to "move" as quickly as she does. She feels things so strongly, so
intensely and passionately, that her wants are truly felt as "needs"
and that makes her impulsive and sometimes she's unrealistic and
ignores long-term consequences for short-term payoffs. I could go
on.... (my kids read these lists sometimes - I will NEVER say anything
here that I wouldn't want them to read and I wouldn't say ANYTHING if
they asked me not to).
But - the point is to understand, as you're reading about these grown
unschooled kids, you aren't necessarily getting the FULL picture. So -
be encouraged - I think these kids are incredible! But don't think they
are "problem-free" or that they represent the ideal or standard for
comparison. I'm sure Valerie would say the same thing - yes, Laurie is
clearly an academic success story <g> it is great to KNOW that an
unschooler can do it. It doesn't make what she's done a particularly
desirable goal for others - and none of us should remotely think our
kids are "less than" her or any of the other kids we talk about here,
in any way, because they choose a different path.
-pam
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> And I agree. :)And my other kids are not whirlwinders, like Roya, by the way. She's
>
> Sometimes those unschooling success stories can be intimidating to
> people
> who are new to the ideas. I especially don't like it when people see
> unschooling as a "method" to get the result they expect from a top
> school-at-homer.
> Some people do get that idea from whirlwind lives like Roya's. I
> know you've
> encountered it and I know you agree. I just wanted to point it out
> again.
just a great example of what kids CAN get from college, because she
immersed herself in it for the past few years and had so much fun. In
fact, Roya calls herself an "experience junkie."
Rox does musical theater and plays computer games for hours and hours
and hours. She's brilliant (imo, of course) and she's a writer and a
seriously deep critical thinker - but she's not a "dabbler" - not
wanting to try everything in the world out just for the experience.
Rosie is an athlete and a social kid. She has NO interest in taking the
community college classes. She's very clear on what she's interested in
or not interested in and it is mostly physical activity. Lately she is
making music mixes and burning them on cd's and trading them with
friends. She also plays D&D and Magic, the Gathering and other games.
She hangs out on the computer and IM's with her friends, trades online
quizzes, and writes on "livejournal."
People should look at the OWN kids and really see how wonderful they
are - because they ARE. Each is a unique and amazing human being.
Karen is VERY right to warn against comparing our own kids to others -
it is a terrible mistake and leads you down a path of disappointment
and frustration. Remember, we tend to write about our kids' strengths
and talents and successes here. And - readers sometimes smush them all
together in their minds into one composite "wonder-unschooler" and
their own real-life kids don't stack up too well to that imaginary
superstar.
Trust me - my kids are NOT perfect. AND, in fact, the very most
wonderful things about them even have their negative sides. Roya's
incredible energy and high activity level and interest in EVERYTHING -
is exhausting and messy and there were many times in her life I worried
that she'd never settle on anything long enough to get any sense of
accomplishment from it. And, she dominates things - expects the rest of
us to "move" as quickly as she does. She feels things so strongly, so
intensely and passionately, that her wants are truly felt as "needs"
and that makes her impulsive and sometimes she's unrealistic and
ignores long-term consequences for short-term payoffs. I could go
on.... (my kids read these lists sometimes - I will NEVER say anything
here that I wouldn't want them to read and I wouldn't say ANYTHING if
they asked me not to).
But - the point is to understand, as you're reading about these grown
unschooled kids, you aren't necessarily getting the FULL picture. So -
be encouraged - I think these kids are incredible! But don't think they
are "problem-free" or that they represent the ideal or standard for
comparison. I'm sure Valerie would say the same thing - yes, Laurie is
clearly an academic success story <g> it is great to KNOW that an
unschooler can do it. It doesn't make what she's done a particularly
desirable goal for others - and none of us should remotely think our
kids are "less than" her or any of the other kids we talk about here,
in any way, because they choose a different path.
-pam
>National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/15/2004 1:35:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Karen is VERY right to warn against comparing our own kids to others -
it is a terrible mistake and leads you down a path of disappointment
and frustration. Remember, we tend to write about our kids' strengths
and talents and successes here. And - readers sometimes smush them all
together in their minds into one composite "wonder-unschooler" and
their own real-life kids don't stack up too well to that imaginary
superstar.<<<<
The flip-side of this, of course, is the schooled kid whose parents
constantly talke about what he *can't* do and what he's lacking and how they need to
"fix" or strengthen his weaknesses.
I think it's important to focus on our unschooled children's STRENGTHS.
Well, on ALL children's strengths, on adults' strengths, on everybody's
strengths. School teaches that our strengths are fine, *IF* we are busy fixing our
weaknesses. I look at it just the opposite----shine where you can!
For you newbies: We "old farts" talk about our children's strengths because
that's who they ARE. That's what makes them SHINE. Yes, it may make our
children look perfect; and to me, mine ARE! Perfect JUST the way they are even
WITH their "weaknesses".
WE may even look "perfect" ----as unschooling parents. But we have crappy
moments; we just CHOOSE to overlook these things because we ARE striving to be
better. Focusing on our parenting mistakes and lowpoints can be overcome by
looking at all the GOOD things we do and by striving to do better.
Cameron's pot-smoking comes to mind: I guess I could look at that as a
negative, as a weakness. But I know he's thinking about it and making *wiser*
choices than some of his friends. It's not my choice for him.
I certainly TRUST him more than his friends' parents trust them. And I don't
see it as something that "defines' him in any way----certainly not
negatively. But I'll spend more time talking about his music and his film-making and
his incredible kindness than I do about his lack of----what? I can't even
*think* of anything! <G> He doesn't lack anything that he needs *right now*.
So, you newbies who are looking at us as wonder-parents or our kids as
unschooling-Wunderkinder....it's all in the mind-set! <G> We write about the good
stuff because that's what makes them who they are. I can't even make myself
look at them as lacking in something. They are Who They Are.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Karen is VERY right to warn against comparing our own kids to others -
it is a terrible mistake and leads you down a path of disappointment
and frustration. Remember, we tend to write about our kids' strengths
and talents and successes here. And - readers sometimes smush them all
together in their minds into one composite "wonder-unschooler" and
their own real-life kids don't stack up too well to that imaginary
superstar.<<<<
The flip-side of this, of course, is the schooled kid whose parents
constantly talke about what he *can't* do and what he's lacking and how they need to
"fix" or strengthen his weaknesses.
I think it's important to focus on our unschooled children's STRENGTHS.
Well, on ALL children's strengths, on adults' strengths, on everybody's
strengths. School teaches that our strengths are fine, *IF* we are busy fixing our
weaknesses. I look at it just the opposite----shine where you can!
For you newbies: We "old farts" talk about our children's strengths because
that's who they ARE. That's what makes them SHINE. Yes, it may make our
children look perfect; and to me, mine ARE! Perfect JUST the way they are even
WITH their "weaknesses".
WE may even look "perfect" ----as unschooling parents. But we have crappy
moments; we just CHOOSE to overlook these things because we ARE striving to be
better. Focusing on our parenting mistakes and lowpoints can be overcome by
looking at all the GOOD things we do and by striving to do better.
Cameron's pot-smoking comes to mind: I guess I could look at that as a
negative, as a weakness. But I know he's thinking about it and making *wiser*
choices than some of his friends. It's not my choice for him.
I certainly TRUST him more than his friends' parents trust them. And I don't
see it as something that "defines' him in any way----certainly not
negatively. But I'll spend more time talking about his music and his film-making and
his incredible kindness than I do about his lack of----what? I can't even
*think* of anything! <G> He doesn't lack anything that he needs *right now*.
So, you newbies who are looking at us as wonder-parents or our kids as
unschooling-Wunderkinder....it's all in the mind-set! <G> We write about the good
stuff because that's what makes them who they are. I can't even make myself
look at them as lacking in something. They are Who They Are.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
> But - the point is to understand, as you're reading about thesegrown unschooled kids, you aren't necessarily getting the FULL
picture. So - be encouraged - I think these kids are incredible! But
don't think they are "problem-free" or that they represent the ideal
or standard for comparison. I'm sure Valerie would say the same
thing - yes, Laurie is clearly an academic success story <g> it is
great to KNOW that an unschooler can do it. It doesn't make what
she's done a particularly desirable goal for others - and none of us
should remotely think our kids are "less than" her or any of the
other kids we talk about here, in any way, because they choose a
different path.
>*****Are you suggesting that Laurie is NOT perfect? harumpf! <G>
> -pam
Yes, I would say the same thing. IMO, what Laurie has done and is
doing academic-wise says to me that no matter what a freely-raised
unschooler decides to do, they are going to give it their all and do
well at it because it's something they decided to do. She spent her
life making choices that were appropriate for her, and college was
just another one of those choices. Her goal isn't particularly
desirable for me personally. I don't like studying subjects that I'm
not totally interested in already. That doesn't make her better than
me; just different.
And to say that Laurie has no problems would be a falsehood. She
struggles with a few of her father's personality disorders that she
continuously has to check herself on. She doesn't skip merrily
through life without personal hurdles. I don't go into her problems
because it's her business. That doesn't mean that she doesn't have
any; it just means that I respect her privacy. I will say that any
problems she does have, she gets through them easier than most and I
honestly believe it's because of her free childhood. Because of her
childhood, she knows herself really well and that makes problem-
solving of a personal nature a lot easier in my book.
love, Valerie
pam sorooshian
Beautifully said, Valerie. Thank you.
And I agree about respecting their privacy - its a good idea for us to
make that point once in a while.
I've been criticized in the past for talking about my kids so openly,
online. But the truth is I'm pretty circumspect - I know what the kids
are okay with me posting and what would not be okay with them.
-pam
And I agree about respecting their privacy - its a good idea for us to
make that point once in a while.
I've been criticized in the past for talking about my kids so openly,
online. But the truth is I'm pretty circumspect - I know what the kids
are okay with me posting and what would not be okay with them.
-pam
On Aug 16, 2004, at 6:06 AM, Valerie wrote:
> And to say that Laurie has no problems would be a falsehood. She
> struggles with a few of her father's personality disorders that she
> continuously has to check herself on. She doesn't skip merrily
> through life without personal hurdles. I don't go into her problems
> because it's her business. That doesn't mean that she doesn't have
> any; it just means that I respect her privacy. I will say that any
> problems she does have, she gets through them easier than most and I
> honestly believe it's because of her free childhood. Because of her
> childhood, she knows herself really well and that makes problem-
> solving of a personal nature a lot easier in my book.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Valerie
Thank you, Pam. When I first started posting in the lists, Laurie
and I discussed exactly what was ok and what was off-limits. I had
her read most of my posts before I hit "send" in the beginning. :-)
Then she got too busy and said, "Aw Mom. Just say what you want to
say. I know you'll protect my privacy." And I do.
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
and I discussed exactly what was ok and what was off-limits. I had
her read most of my posts before I hit "send" in the beginning. :-)
Then she got too busy and said, "Aw Mom. Just say what you want to
say. I know you'll protect my privacy." And I do.
love, Valerie
www.ubpub.com
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> Beautifully said, Valerie. Thank you.us to
> And I agree about respecting their privacy - its a good idea for
> make that point once in a while.openly,
> I've been criticized in the past for talking about my kids so
> online. But the truth is I'm pretty circumspect - I know what thekids
> are okay with me posting and what would not be okay with them.she
>
> -pam
>
> On Aug 16, 2004, at 6:06 AM, Valerie wrote:
>
> > And to say that Laurie has no problems would be a falsehood. She
> > struggles with a few of her father's personality disorders that
> > continuously has to check herself on. She doesn't skip merrilyproblems
> > through life without personal hurdles. I don't go into her
> > because it's her business. That doesn't mean that she doesn'thave
> > any; it just means that I respect her privacy. I will say thatany
> > problems she does have, she gets through them easier than mostand I
> > honestly believe it's because of her free childhood. Because ofher
> > childhood, she knows herself really well and that makes problem-
> > solving of a personal nature a lot easier in my book.
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/17/2004 5:25:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Beautifully said, Valerie. Thank you.
And I agree about respecting their privacy - its a good idea for us to
make that point once in a while.
I've been criticized in the past for talking about my kids so openly,
online. But the truth is I'm pretty circumspect - I know what the kids
are okay with me posting and what would not be okay with them.
-pam
*******************
Julian has given me permission to share what I like without without checking
in for everything, understanding that I would ask before mentioning anything
that I had a question about.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Beautifully said, Valerie. Thank you.
And I agree about respecting their privacy - its a good idea for us to
make that point once in a while.
I've been criticized in the past for talking about my kids so openly,
online. But the truth is I'm pretty circumspect - I know what the kids
are okay with me posting and what would not be okay with them.
-pam
*******************
Julian has given me permission to share what I like without without checking
in for everything, understanding that I would ask before mentioning anything
that I had a question about.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/17/2004 2:20:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
Julian has given me permission to share what I like without without
checking
in for everything, understanding that I would ask before mentioning
anything
that I had a question about.
Kathryn<<<<
Cam, too. And he knows he's a hot topic of discussion. <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
Julian has given me permission to share what I like without without
checking
in for everything, understanding that I would ask before mentioning
anything
that I had a question about.
Kathryn<<<<
Cam, too. And he knows he's a hot topic of discussion. <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 5:06:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Thanks so much for your response on this issue. I've been reading all I can
about Unschooling, and as I read book after book (including yours!) about
kids who do things like re-wiring their kitchen at age 7, I get more
discouraged than inspired. My kids haven't necessarily found any particularly
brag-worthy passion yet (other than Yugio and Pokemon memorization skills), so it's
sometimes hard to hear about wunderkinds. Not that I'm glad your daughter
has any problems, it just reminds me that comparing my kids to anyone is of no
value!
**************************************
Let me tell you a story.
Julian, now almost 14, was in school through the third grade. I had to
convince TWO other parents.
He entered the third grade pretty confident. He believed he was smart,
particularly at math. In the third grade, all math became about memorizing the
times tables. He just couldn't do it. He'd study, then go into school and have
to pass timed tests. He'd cry; he was so sad.
But this is a kid who'd already been in many plays, with leads, and sang
publicly, never having trouble learning lyrics.
These fact meant nothing to him, and he just couldn't do it. And he was
shamed and unhappy. He left third grade NOT thinking he was very smart, and
especially at math.
The kicker: I also had a hard time with times tables when I was in school,
and it ruined me for math forever.
I told him when he left school that he NEVER had to memorize them if he
didn't want to. And he hasn't. He can figure out, pretty quickly, what the answer
is to a multiplication question is, but he does not have them memorized.
So, brag about how your kids have the Pokemon and Yugio stuff memorized if
you want! They're good at memorizing information that has meaning to them and
is useful to them. That's great! Important skill to have.
It's more important to know how to learn stuff you want and need than to
have any particular content learned. If you know HOW to learn, you'll always be
able to apply it to what you need. If you're just full of content that someone
else dictated you may not be able to apply it to another situation.
Kathryn
Kathryn Baptista, Conference Coordinator
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody,
MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
Thanks so much for your response on this issue. I've been reading all I can
about Unschooling, and as I read book after book (including yours!) about
kids who do things like re-wiring their kitchen at age 7, I get more
discouraged than inspired. My kids haven't necessarily found any particularly
brag-worthy passion yet (other than Yugio and Pokemon memorization skills), so it's
sometimes hard to hear about wunderkinds. Not that I'm glad your daughter
has any problems, it just reminds me that comparing my kids to anyone is of no
value!
**************************************
Let me tell you a story.
Julian, now almost 14, was in school through the third grade. I had to
convince TWO other parents.
He entered the third grade pretty confident. He believed he was smart,
particularly at math. In the third grade, all math became about memorizing the
times tables. He just couldn't do it. He'd study, then go into school and have
to pass timed tests. He'd cry; he was so sad.
But this is a kid who'd already been in many plays, with leads, and sang
publicly, never having trouble learning lyrics.
These fact meant nothing to him, and he just couldn't do it. And he was
shamed and unhappy. He left third grade NOT thinking he was very smart, and
especially at math.
The kicker: I also had a hard time with times tables when I was in school,
and it ruined me for math forever.
I told him when he left school that he NEVER had to memorize them if he
didn't want to. And he hasn't. He can figure out, pretty quickly, what the answer
is to a multiplication question is, but he does not have them memorized.
So, brag about how your kids have the Pokemon and Yugio stuff memorized if
you want! They're good at memorizing information that has meaning to them and
is useful to them. That's great! Important skill to have.
It's more important to know how to learn stuff you want and need than to
have any particular content learned. If you know HOW to learn, you'll always be
able to apply it to what you need. If you're just full of content that someone
else dictated you may not be able to apply it to another situation.
Kathryn
Kathryn Baptista, Conference Coordinator
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody,
MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jonni-Ann Goulding
KathrynJB@... wrote:
<<These fact meant nothing to him, and he just couldn't do it. And he was
shamed and unhappy. He left third grade NOT thinking he was very smart, and
especially at math.
The kicker: I also had a hard time with times tables when I was in school,
and it ruined me for math forever.
I told him when he left school that he NEVER had to memorize them if he didn't want to. And he hasn't. He can figure out, pretty quickly, what the answer is to a multiplication question is, but he does not have them memorized.
It's more important to know how to learn stuff you want and need than to have any particular content learned. If you know HOW to learn, you'll always be able to apply it to what you need. If you're just full of content that someone else dictated you may not be able to apply it to another situation.>>
I had to thank you for this post. I was a schooled kid all the way through college. I never did memorize my multiplication tables but did them in my head. I loved Math despite the fact that teachers kept trying to wreck it for me. In Grade 7 I needed glasses but didn't know. The Algebra teacher told me after class one day "don't fret-some people are no good at Math and never will be-you can do lots of other things." There it was the LABEL. When it came time to sign up for classes in High School I took the lowest level they would allow me and since I was on an AP course I couldn't go that low, I had to stay a year at least ahead. I got straight A's and yet told EVERYONE I was "bad at Math". It was clinched by a Physics teacher who scolded me for working out a problem using Calculus when it wasn't fair since nobody else had taken Calculus so I would have to do it the way everyone else did. It all fit in with the "you're bad at Math" stuff. I couldn't memorize the formulas he
wanted me to memorized when I'd figured out a better way to get the answers. Grade 9 Geometry teacher would publicly ridicule me for taking too many steps to reprove things that we cold take for granted but I loved that I could and that it worked every time and that there wasn't one RIGHT way to get an answer. I scored ridiculously high on the Math SAT (because I didn't have to show my work I think) and yet still felt inside that I was "bad at Math". Lol I went to University accepted as a Mathematics major and still compared myself to others. There were 20 freshman accepted to the program and 5 didn't survive the first semester and I still felt "bad" but I LOVED it so I stuck around.
Anyway all that to say that even as a Mathematics major in University, I never did (and still haven't) memorized multiplication tables. I still visualize sets of stuff and sort of count them in my head. I can do it almost instantaneously so nobody notices. (7X6 is 2 sets of 3 7s or double 21 so it's 42 LOL) I just think through stuff differently than the textbooks say I should.
Fast forward and keeping on topic (sort of) I have a 7 year old. It is FASCINATING to watch him because he does Math like I do. I never "taught" him and he was never "taught" by the textbook methods that I was subjected to. But he was figuring something out and I asked him to explain to me and he thinks through things like I do. ("Mom it�s easy because 6+6 is 12 and 12+12 is 24 so 4 rows of 6 seats has to be 24 seats.") I don't know that he knows he is doing multiplication. The coolest thing is there is NOBODY to tell him he is "no good at Math" and he doesn't have to feel like a freak because he works through stuff as opposed to memorizing it.
I always count that fact among the cool things that unschooling does for us. :)
I also found that by typing this, I've worked through some of my "back to school" apprehension that I always feel at this time of year. All the doubts of "is this really the right way to go?" come creeping in at the end of summer.
Thanks all for being here and for your sharing. :)
---------------------------------
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<These fact meant nothing to him, and he just couldn't do it. And he was
shamed and unhappy. He left third grade NOT thinking he was very smart, and
especially at math.
The kicker: I also had a hard time with times tables when I was in school,
and it ruined me for math forever.
I told him when he left school that he NEVER had to memorize them if he didn't want to. And he hasn't. He can figure out, pretty quickly, what the answer is to a multiplication question is, but he does not have them memorized.
It's more important to know how to learn stuff you want and need than to have any particular content learned. If you know HOW to learn, you'll always be able to apply it to what you need. If you're just full of content that someone else dictated you may not be able to apply it to another situation.>>
I had to thank you for this post. I was a schooled kid all the way through college. I never did memorize my multiplication tables but did them in my head. I loved Math despite the fact that teachers kept trying to wreck it for me. In Grade 7 I needed glasses but didn't know. The Algebra teacher told me after class one day "don't fret-some people are no good at Math and never will be-you can do lots of other things." There it was the LABEL. When it came time to sign up for classes in High School I took the lowest level they would allow me and since I was on an AP course I couldn't go that low, I had to stay a year at least ahead. I got straight A's and yet told EVERYONE I was "bad at Math". It was clinched by a Physics teacher who scolded me for working out a problem using Calculus when it wasn't fair since nobody else had taken Calculus so I would have to do it the way everyone else did. It all fit in with the "you're bad at Math" stuff. I couldn't memorize the formulas he
wanted me to memorized when I'd figured out a better way to get the answers. Grade 9 Geometry teacher would publicly ridicule me for taking too many steps to reprove things that we cold take for granted but I loved that I could and that it worked every time and that there wasn't one RIGHT way to get an answer. I scored ridiculously high on the Math SAT (because I didn't have to show my work I think) and yet still felt inside that I was "bad at Math". Lol I went to University accepted as a Mathematics major and still compared myself to others. There were 20 freshman accepted to the program and 5 didn't survive the first semester and I still felt "bad" but I LOVED it so I stuck around.
Anyway all that to say that even as a Mathematics major in University, I never did (and still haven't) memorized multiplication tables. I still visualize sets of stuff and sort of count them in my head. I can do it almost instantaneously so nobody notices. (7X6 is 2 sets of 3 7s or double 21 so it's 42 LOL) I just think through stuff differently than the textbooks say I should.
Fast forward and keeping on topic (sort of) I have a 7 year old. It is FASCINATING to watch him because he does Math like I do. I never "taught" him and he was never "taught" by the textbook methods that I was subjected to. But he was figuring something out and I asked him to explain to me and he thinks through things like I do. ("Mom it�s easy because 6+6 is 12 and 12+12 is 24 so 4 rows of 6 seats has to be 24 seats.") I don't know that he knows he is doing multiplication. The coolest thing is there is NOBODY to tell him he is "no good at Math" and he doesn't have to feel like a freak because he works through stuff as opposed to memorizing it.
I always count that fact among the cool things that unschooling does for us. :)
I also found that by typing this, I've worked through some of my "back to school" apprehension that I always feel at this time of year. All the doubts of "is this really the right way to go?" come creeping in at the end of summer.
Thanks all for being here and for your sharing. :)
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