Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling myself
Cameron Parham
I know that I have had, and probably still have, misconceptions about unschooling. I think I have a need to talk about one of these. I need some clarity, and, I hate to admit it, maybe some comfort. I am not tempted to stop unschooling/deschooling. Just need to talk and if possible get some thoughts from others.
For a long time, before we started unschooling and for several months after we began, I thought that the basic idea of unschooling was that when left to their own interests, kids will, over some years' time, absorb how to do quite a bit of math, explore literature, history, social trends, you-name-it. Now, we are only in our 7th RU month, and maybe not even that since we spent a stressful month with relatives recently. So I am not too much tempted to look at my kids behavior and feel concerned; we are still deschooling. So, what is the problem?
I have finally absorbed that RU doesn't mean that they will spontaneously learn some specific body of knowlege as kids. It seems to mean that they will learn to keep their joy and confidence alive, so that when they want to learn or do something they'll embrace and do it. And it may not be anything I could have ever imagined!
While part of me just loves that, another part is saying, yes...but...and just getting jitters that while I am trying to help them live with joy and possibility that I will really end up limiting them.
Now, I am aware this isn't rational. Try as hard as I may to be entirely rational about my kids, it can be hard.
A further confusing note: my 13 yo ds has asked me if I could "push him through" several years' curriculum so he could be "really ahead" and then go to school. This is a young man who has always done everything at his own pace. Turns out he wants to think about going to school for several reasons: to show himself he really can be an academic whiz, to see how he fits in to the school culture, and to make more friends. I am looking for more ways to find friends but I think there is a self-confidence issue here, too. A fear that he couldn't hack it in school (in his mind).
Well, this is all very confusing. I don't want to let him down if he really wants to zoom through several years of curriculum, but all our previous efforts at standardized curricula fizzled in days. I think I'd be more likely to become a master tap dancer overnight than be able to cajole him through that. Of course it's that body of supposedly useful knowlege...or at least the ticket-punch Gatto refers to.
So here I am, deschooling. Trying to let go of all my expectations, all my labels of what people need to learn in chilhood to be free adults. Maybe really this sudden rquest to be pushed through several years' curricula is even part of my 13 yo son's deschooling, like "Oops, what if I really should have learned all that stuff!" Any thoughts on this ramble?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For a long time, before we started unschooling and for several months after we began, I thought that the basic idea of unschooling was that when left to their own interests, kids will, over some years' time, absorb how to do quite a bit of math, explore literature, history, social trends, you-name-it. Now, we are only in our 7th RU month, and maybe not even that since we spent a stressful month with relatives recently. So I am not too much tempted to look at my kids behavior and feel concerned; we are still deschooling. So, what is the problem?
I have finally absorbed that RU doesn't mean that they will spontaneously learn some specific body of knowlege as kids. It seems to mean that they will learn to keep their joy and confidence alive, so that when they want to learn or do something they'll embrace and do it. And it may not be anything I could have ever imagined!
While part of me just loves that, another part is saying, yes...but...and just getting jitters that while I am trying to help them live with joy and possibility that I will really end up limiting them.
Now, I am aware this isn't rational. Try as hard as I may to be entirely rational about my kids, it can be hard.
A further confusing note: my 13 yo ds has asked me if I could "push him through" several years' curriculum so he could be "really ahead" and then go to school. This is a young man who has always done everything at his own pace. Turns out he wants to think about going to school for several reasons: to show himself he really can be an academic whiz, to see how he fits in to the school culture, and to make more friends. I am looking for more ways to find friends but I think there is a self-confidence issue here, too. A fear that he couldn't hack it in school (in his mind).
Well, this is all very confusing. I don't want to let him down if he really wants to zoom through several years of curriculum, but all our previous efforts at standardized curricula fizzled in days. I think I'd be more likely to become a master tap dancer overnight than be able to cajole him through that. Of course it's that body of supposedly useful knowlege...or at least the ticket-punch Gatto refers to.
So here I am, deschooling. Trying to let go of all my expectations, all my labels of what people need to learn in chilhood to be free adults. Maybe really this sudden rquest to be pushed through several years' curricula is even part of my 13 yo son's deschooling, like "Oops, what if I really should have learned all that stuff!" Any thoughts on this ramble?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mara
Hi,
when I was about your sons age (14 I think) I made the
decision to switch school from the non-graded rather
free waldorf school I was on and quite happy at too
(in a different town) to a public school in my town.
The main reason which I only admitted to myself was to
see if I was not as smart as others (as some public
schooled kids in the neighborhood had indicated
because I had no grades...). I wanted to prove
something to myself and unfortunately dragged my
brother through with me who switched because of me and
had the worst time.
And yet, a lot of good came from it, and at least it
was my decision. In hindsight and comparison I learned
mostly that kids can be really mean etc.
I would have loved the chance to just be able to look
at what they were doing without any pressure. What if
you just show your child all that the public schooled
kids are doing, even getting him textbooks etc. to
work through on his own. He might have fun comparing
himself (or whizzing through a lot of math in a short
time for example), without having to take the other
crap -
Good luck,
Mara
--- Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...> wrote:
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when I was about your sons age (14 I think) I made the
decision to switch school from the non-graded rather
free waldorf school I was on and quite happy at too
(in a different town) to a public school in my town.
The main reason which I only admitted to myself was to
see if I was not as smart as others (as some public
schooled kids in the neighborhood had indicated
because I had no grades...). I wanted to prove
something to myself and unfortunately dragged my
brother through with me who switched because of me and
had the worst time.
And yet, a lot of good came from it, and at least it
was my decision. In hindsight and comparison I learned
mostly that kids can be really mean etc.
I would have loved the chance to just be able to look
at what they were doing without any pressure. What if
you just show your child all that the public schooled
kids are doing, even getting him textbooks etc. to
work through on his own. He might have fun comparing
himself (or whizzing through a lot of math in a short
time for example), without having to take the other
crap -
Good luck,
Mara
--- Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...> wrote:
> I know that I have had, and probably still have,__________________________________________________
> misconceptions about unschooling. I think I have a
> need to talk about one of these. I need some
> clarity, and, I hate to admit it, maybe some
> comfort. I am not tempted to stop
> unschooling/deschooling. Just need to talk and if
> possible get some thoughts from others.
> For a long time, before we started unschooling and
> for several months after we began, I thought that
> the basic idea of unschooling was that when left to
> their own interests, kids will, over some years'
> time, absorb how to do quite a bit of math, explore
> literature, history, social trends, you-name-it.
> Now, we are only in our 7th RU month, and maybe not
> even that since we spent a stressful month with
> relatives recently. So I am not too much tempted to
> look at my kids behavior and feel concerned; we are
> still deschooling. So, what is the problem?
> I have finally absorbed that RU doesn't mean that
> they will spontaneously learn some specific body of
> knowlege as kids. It seems to mean that they will
> learn to keep their joy and confidence alive, so
> that when they want to learn or do something they'll
> embrace and do it. And it may not be anything I
> could have ever imagined!
> While part of me just loves that, another part is
> saying, yes...but...and just getting jitters that
> while I am trying to help them live with joy and
> possibility that I will really end up limiting them.
> Now, I am aware this isn't rational. Try as hard as
> I may to be entirely rational about my kids, it can
> be hard.
> A further confusing note: my 13 yo ds has asked me
> if I could "push him through" several years'
> curriculum so he could be "really ahead" and then go
> to school. This is a young man who has always done
> everything at his own pace. Turns out he wants to
> think about going to school for several reasons: to
> show himself he really can be an academic whiz, to
> see how he fits in to the school culture, and to
> make more friends. I am looking for more ways to
> find friends but I think there is a self-confidence
> issue here, too. A fear that he couldn't hack it in
> school (in his mind).
> Well, this is all very confusing. I don't want
> to let him down if he really wants to zoom through
> several years of curriculum, but all our previous
> efforts at standardized curricula fizzled in days.
> I think I'd be more likely to become a master tap
> dancer overnight than be able to cajole him through
> that. Of course it's that body of supposedly useful
> knowlege...or at least the ticket-punch Gatto refers
> to.
> So here I am, deschooling. Trying to let go of
> all my expectations, all my labels of what people
> need to learn in chilhood to be free adults. Maybe
> really this sudden rquest to be pushed through
> several years' curricula is even part of my 13 yo
> son's deschooling, like "Oops, what if I really
> should have learned all that stuff!" Any thoughts
> on this ramble?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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Cameron Parham
Mara says"I would have loved the chance to just be able to look
at what they were doing without any pressure. What if
you just show your child all that the public schooled
kids are doing, even getting him textbooks etc. to
work through on his own.
I will see if G wants to do this. And whether we can get the books. It doesn't address the question of how he'd fit into school culture but it is a start. I see that he and my 10 yo dd wonder a lot about school culture, and seem to think it might be like those shows like 'Drake and Josh', 'Sabrina', 'iCarly', etc where the kids are mostly seem in hallways, lunchrooms, and after school. It is hard for someone who hasn't been through it to undestand how little real visiting you can do and still get to class in the 4 minutes allowed between periods in the local High school! Thanks for your answer, and sharing what happened to you and to your brother and what was really in your heart at the time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
at what they were doing without any pressure. What if
you just show your child all that the public schooled
kids are doing, even getting him textbooks etc. to
work through on his own.
I will see if G wants to do this. And whether we can get the books. It doesn't address the question of how he'd fit into school culture but it is a start. I see that he and my 10 yo dd wonder a lot about school culture, and seem to think it might be like those shows like 'Drake and Josh', 'Sabrina', 'iCarly', etc where the kids are mostly seem in hallways, lunchrooms, and after school. It is hard for someone who hasn't been through it to undestand how little real visiting you can do and still get to class in the 4 minutes allowed between periods in the local High school! Thanks for your answer, and sharing what happened to you and to your brother and what was really in your heart at the time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mara
Hi again,
I was talking to another unschooling friends the other
day who's son started watching one of those shows and
we were talking about how unrealistic they are -
I believe if you talk to your local school about
having your son come in and visit one day - or
possibly sit in on a class of his choice, that should
be possible, to quell his curiousity. Our school
district has told me that my sons can take classes in
the public school if they like without having to be
'in' it. My older one has acted in a play at the local
high school, that was it though for envolvement.
Mara
--- Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...> wrote:
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I was talking to another unschooling friends the other
day who's son started watching one of those shows and
we were talking about how unrealistic they are -
I believe if you talk to your local school about
having your son come in and visit one day - or
possibly sit in on a class of his choice, that should
be possible, to quell his curiousity. Our school
district has told me that my sons can take classes in
the public school if they like without having to be
'in' it. My older one has acted in a play at the local
high school, that was it though for envolvement.
Mara
--- Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...> wrote:
> Mara says"I would have loved the chance to just be__________________________________________________
> able to look
> at what they were doing without any pressure. What
> if
> you just show your child all that the public
> schooled
> kids are doing, even getting him textbooks etc. to
> work through on his own.
>
> I will see if G wants to do this. And whether we can
> get the books. It doesn't address the question of
> how he'd fit into school culture but it is a start.
> I see that he and my 10 yo dd wonder a lot about
> school culture, and seem to think it might be like
> those shows like 'Drake and Josh', 'Sabrina',
> 'iCarly', etc where the kids are mostly seem in
> hallways, lunchrooms, and after school. It is hard
> for someone who hasn't been through it to undestand
> how little real visiting you can do and still get to
> class in the 4 minutes allowed between periods in
> the local High school! Thanks for your answer, and
> sharing what happened to you and to your brother and
> what was really in your heart at the time.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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dana_burdick
It sounds like there is lots of confusion, both on your part and your
son's. To get some clarity you might try a game of pretend. Pick
your favorite unschooling mom off one of the lists or maybe someone
off-list that you know and respect. Imagine that you are her and
your son is just your son. How would this experienced unschooling
mom react? You might try several people and imagine their
responses. This may allow you to separate your own doubts and fears
from your sons.
This is how I would imagine my most respected unschooling mom:
She would probably not be fearful of her son's process and would not
confuse his anxieties with her own (if any). She would most likely
be excited that her son is doing lots of thinking on the topic and
exploring his options. She would be eager to explore right along
side of him to see how she might be of help. If her son asks, "push
me through" several years' curriculum. She would welcome his
invitation without fear. She might ask him questions for him to
answer so he might get a deeper understanding of his needs and
wishes. Here are some examples of a question she might ask. "You
need me to _push_ you through? Is that true?" "When you imagine me
pushing you, how does it make you feel?" "Does it make you feel
joyful? Stressed? Happy?" In other words, help would come without
fear of the outcome and would still allow him to proceed to find the
best solution for _him_. She might make suggestions herself, being
mindful that they are not colored by her own preferences.
himself he really can be an academic whiz, to see how he fits in to
the school
culture, and to make more friends. I am looking for more ways to find
friends
but I think there is a self-confidence issue here, too. A fear that
he couldn't
hack it in school (in his mind).
try finding as many ways as possible for your son to gain confidence
in him self. His lens may be too narrow right now to see that there
are many other ways to feel competent, confident and successful
within his areas of interest. One of those ways is probably not
getting `pushed'. His belief that he needs to be pushed leads me to
suspect that he is still emerging from a school paradigm.
Even if you are feeling shaky about all this unschooling stuff, you
can still facilitate his journey. The best way I have found when I
get shaky is to pretend, if even for a moment, that I have no fear
and no doubts. It invariably gives me a different perspective on the
problem and allows me to see things clearer.
-Dana
son's. To get some clarity you might try a game of pretend. Pick
your favorite unschooling mom off one of the lists or maybe someone
off-list that you know and respect. Imagine that you are her and
your son is just your son. How would this experienced unschooling
mom react? You might try several people and imagine their
responses. This may allow you to separate your own doubts and fears
from your sons.
This is how I would imagine my most respected unschooling mom:
She would probably not be fearful of her son's process and would not
confuse his anxieties with her own (if any). She would most likely
be excited that her son is doing lots of thinking on the topic and
exploring his options. She would be eager to explore right along
side of him to see how she might be of help. If her son asks, "push
me through" several years' curriculum. She would welcome his
invitation without fear. She might ask him questions for him to
answer so he might get a deeper understanding of his needs and
wishes. Here are some examples of a question she might ask. "You
need me to _push_ you through? Is that true?" "When you imagine me
pushing you, how does it make you feel?" "Does it make you feel
joyful? Stressed? Happy?" In other words, help would come without
fear of the outcome and would still allow him to proceed to find the
best solution for _him_. She might make suggestions herself, being
mindful that they are not colored by her own preferences.
>Turns out he wants to think about going to school for severalreasons: to show
himself he really can be an academic whiz, to see how he fits in to
the school
culture, and to make more friends. I am looking for more ways to find
friends
but I think there is a self-confidence issue here, too. A fear that
he couldn't
hack it in school (in his mind).
>This is me talking now. Perhaps it's a good time to brainstorm and
try finding as many ways as possible for your son to gain confidence
in him self. His lens may be too narrow right now to see that there
are many other ways to feel competent, confident and successful
within his areas of interest. One of those ways is probably not
getting `pushed'. His belief that he needs to be pushed leads me to
suspect that he is still emerging from a school paradigm.
Even if you are feeling shaky about all this unschooling stuff, you
can still facilitate his journey. The best way I have found when I
get shaky is to pretend, if even for a moment, that I have no fear
and no doubts. It invariably gives me a different perspective on the
problem and allows me to see things clearer.
-Dana
Amanda Horein
-=-I see that he and my 10 yo dd wonder a lot about school culture, and seem
to think it might be like those shows like 'Drake and Josh', 'Sabrina',
'iCarly', etc where the kids are mostly seem in hallways, lunchrooms, and
after school.-=-
My 7 year old and I had a discussion about this same thing this past
summer. She asked me if when the time came she could go t middle school and
her idea of what it would be like was coming from Ned's Declassified and
Zoey 101. I tried to talk to her about what middle school was really like
and what it was like for me and she said "so you won't let me go to middle
school because YOU hated it???". I laughed and told her she was right and
we would have to see where we were when she got old enough to attend middle
school and would re-evaluate things then. I really like the idea of having
them visit the school.
--
Roger, Amanda, Marti and Lilly
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
1/2 Price Slide shows make GREAT Christmas Presents!
Example Slide shows at
http://server3.inalbum.com/ia30/show/choose2bgr8/
See my pictures at
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to think it might be like those shows like 'Drake and Josh', 'Sabrina',
'iCarly', etc where the kids are mostly seem in hallways, lunchrooms, and
after school.-=-
My 7 year old and I had a discussion about this same thing this past
summer. She asked me if when the time came she could go t middle school and
her idea of what it would be like was coming from Ned's Declassified and
Zoey 101. I tried to talk to her about what middle school was really like
and what it was like for me and she said "so you won't let me go to middle
school because YOU hated it???". I laughed and told her she was right and
we would have to see where we were when she got old enough to attend middle
school and would re-evaluate things then. I really like the idea of having
them visit the school.
--
Roger, Amanda, Marti and Lilly
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain
1/2 Price Slide shows make GREAT Christmas Presents!
Example Slide shows at
http://server3.inalbum.com/ia30/show/choose2bgr8/
See my pictures at
http://www.HopesCreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com/gallery/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]