my husband's take on unschooling
[email protected]
The following is a partial response to a mom who is interested in coming to
the conference. Her husband is reluctant----in more ways than one. Ben wrote
to encourage her to bring the whole family. I thought some of you might be
interested in reading a dad's viewpoint. I've deleted her questions and some
specifics, but I think you'll get the gist.
I'm lucky.
~Kelly
*************************
At least 10 dads (not to mention countless moms and kids) have had
life-changing experiences at the past two conferences. I can't pinpoint a specific
event which made those things happen, so I must attribute it to the entire
conference. The presenters ... the funshops ... the dads' get-together ...
children experiencing some of their own ... the talent show ... everything that
the conference offers (and leaves out) is important. Complete submersion into
the entire conference will help more than just picking and choosing certain
things to see and hear. You can't submerge or pick and choose if one of you
is not there.
I'm assuming that you mean my talk with the fathers when you say 'your
talk"; I actually am presenting in the main tent on "Rules vs Principles", also.
For the sake of this e-mail, I'll go with my assumption. My get-together
with the fathers will give him some insight into unschooling and ways that
others experience it in and outside of their homes. Unschooling is not the
product of an equation; there is no one definition or way to do it. It is the math
equivalent of infinity because it is continuous and evolving and maleable
and has no defined stopping point. It must be lived and experienced correctly,
and it extends the journey of learning. As far as 'graduation' and college
are concerned, there should be people there with whom he can speak about
those subjects (in fact, one of the speakers, Valerie Fitzenrieter, will be
talking about her daughter, Laurie, who just began working on her
doctorate---unschooled until college). As far as successful goes, you're treading on thin
ice with me. My DW never graduated from college, and she's been successful
from society's and unschooling's standpoint. Maybe you both need to define the
meaning of being "successful". Bill Gates would take exception to needing a
college degree to be "successful".
Your can't support or understand what he hasn't experienced or read about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already. But if you think he'll make it miserable for your son, you need
to ask whether or not you will continue to unschool if your husband is not
supportive. My get-together with the fathers is crucial to his being in a
'safe' environment to discuss issues specific to the dads. Everything else at
the conference is just as important because he'll see how fathers are
interacting with their children every minute of every hour of every day of the
conference. Not knocking you moms, but that is a thing of beauty for me.
This is more of a separate subject than the conference itself, but two
things here: 1) what 'you' want vs what he wants and 2) teaching vs learning.
What he wants is what your focus is in unschooling. One of the basic themes
throughout your note is how much you want this to work, and that's good ... you
have to have the passion to do it. But in the end, it's got to be what he
wants. I don't deny that being home in an unschooling environment would be the
best thing for him, but he's gotta be the one to make that choice. His
choice will be to stay home if he realizes that you will help him learn
absolutely anything that he's interested in. If that means watching TV, playing video
games, playing cards, or coloring in a coloring book all day for the next
two months, let him do it. He'll be 'deschooling', gaining confidence in
himself (and you), become more responsible for his own learning, and experience
the value of self-led learning. Your responsibility is not to teach, but to
find ways to turn your "no's" into "yes's". In his time, his responsibility
will be to make choices based upon his passions and interests and not upon what
some faceless administration, government official, or other self-appointed
expert thinks he should be doing. He will empower himself.
************************
There's more----but I just thought I'd share a bit.
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the conference. Her husband is reluctant----in more ways than one. Ben wrote
to encourage her to bring the whole family. I thought some of you might be
interested in reading a dad's viewpoint. I've deleted her questions and some
specifics, but I think you'll get the gist.
I'm lucky.
~Kelly
*************************
At least 10 dads (not to mention countless moms and kids) have had
life-changing experiences at the past two conferences. I can't pinpoint a specific
event which made those things happen, so I must attribute it to the entire
conference. The presenters ... the funshops ... the dads' get-together ...
children experiencing some of their own ... the talent show ... everything that
the conference offers (and leaves out) is important. Complete submersion into
the entire conference will help more than just picking and choosing certain
things to see and hear. You can't submerge or pick and choose if one of you
is not there.
I'm assuming that you mean my talk with the fathers when you say 'your
talk"; I actually am presenting in the main tent on "Rules vs Principles", also.
For the sake of this e-mail, I'll go with my assumption. My get-together
with the fathers will give him some insight into unschooling and ways that
others experience it in and outside of their homes. Unschooling is not the
product of an equation; there is no one definition or way to do it. It is the math
equivalent of infinity because it is continuous and evolving and maleable
and has no defined stopping point. It must be lived and experienced correctly,
and it extends the journey of learning. As far as 'graduation' and college
are concerned, there should be people there with whom he can speak about
those subjects (in fact, one of the speakers, Valerie Fitzenrieter, will be
talking about her daughter, Laurie, who just began working on her
doctorate---unschooled until college). As far as successful goes, you're treading on thin
ice with me. My DW never graduated from college, and she's been successful
from society's and unschooling's standpoint. Maybe you both need to define the
meaning of being "successful". Bill Gates would take exception to needing a
college degree to be "successful".
Your can't support or understand what he hasn't experienced or read about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already. But if you think he'll make it miserable for your son, you need
to ask whether or not you will continue to unschool if your husband is not
supportive. My get-together with the fathers is crucial to his being in a
'safe' environment to discuss issues specific to the dads. Everything else at
the conference is just as important because he'll see how fathers are
interacting with their children every minute of every hour of every day of the
conference. Not knocking you moms, but that is a thing of beauty for me.
This is more of a separate subject than the conference itself, but two
things here: 1) what 'you' want vs what he wants and 2) teaching vs learning.
What he wants is what your focus is in unschooling. One of the basic themes
throughout your note is how much you want this to work, and that's good ... you
have to have the passion to do it. But in the end, it's got to be what he
wants. I don't deny that being home in an unschooling environment would be the
best thing for him, but he's gotta be the one to make that choice. His
choice will be to stay home if he realizes that you will help him learn
absolutely anything that he's interested in. If that means watching TV, playing video
games, playing cards, or coloring in a coloring book all day for the next
two months, let him do it. He'll be 'deschooling', gaining confidence in
himself (and you), become more responsible for his own learning, and experience
the value of self-led learning. Your responsibility is not to teach, but to
find ways to turn your "no's" into "yes's". In his time, his responsibility
will be to make choices based upon his passions and interests and not upon what
some faceless administration, government official, or other self-appointed
expert thinks he should be doing. He will empower himself.
************************
There's more----but I just thought I'd share a bit.
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Crystal
Thank you, Kelly, for sharing this. I, even more now, want my
husband to attend the conference. Right now he still doesn't want
to go. I think if I pushed he would, though. I have told him it
would mean a lot to me if he would be there with me, but he is
working on Friday and he might work Saturday morning, then he wants
time to relax before Monday and it all starts over again. So, I see
his reason for not wanting to go, but I also know this is a once in
a lifetime opportunity for me to help him understand where I am in
my thinking. (Next year is a whole nother year away!, plus he hates
Florida.)
He mostly understands the academic parts of unschooling. The things
I think he needs to understand is why I don't make the kids do a lot
of housework, like, when Erica is drawing and her drawing stuff is
all out around her along with a dirty dish or two and a drink, and
her laundry needs to be done, etc. In his culture, girls my
daughter's age would be running the household--cooking and cleaning,
not drawing. What makes it worse is our neighbor is like he is, the
women and girls spend their day taking care of the kids and the
house while the men work and fix cars. I'm hoping he might listen
to someone who is not me (ie, another man).
One thing I have going for me is that he is not my kids' father. I
do not have to wait to unschool until he "gets it". I wish we were
both on the same page, though.
Crystal, crossing her fingers that dh comes to the conference.
husband to attend the conference. Right now he still doesn't want
to go. I think if I pushed he would, though. I have told him it
would mean a lot to me if he would be there with me, but he is
working on Friday and he might work Saturday morning, then he wants
time to relax before Monday and it all starts over again. So, I see
his reason for not wanting to go, but I also know this is a once in
a lifetime opportunity for me to help him understand where I am in
my thinking. (Next year is a whole nother year away!, plus he hates
Florida.)
He mostly understands the academic parts of unschooling. The things
I think he needs to understand is why I don't make the kids do a lot
of housework, like, when Erica is drawing and her drawing stuff is
all out around her along with a dirty dish or two and a drink, and
her laundry needs to be done, etc. In his culture, girls my
daughter's age would be running the household--cooking and cleaning,
not drawing. What makes it worse is our neighbor is like he is, the
women and girls spend their day taking care of the kids and the
house while the men work and fix cars. I'm hoping he might listen
to someone who is not me (ie, another man).
One thing I have going for me is that he is not my kids' father. I
do not have to wait to unschool until he "gets it". I wish we were
both on the same page, though.
Crystal, crossing her fingers that dh comes to the conference.
jesika hare
ok ... im slacking big time on the info on the
conference. i guess i wasnt paying alot of mind
because i wasnt completley sold on the whole
unschooling thing. but i also am trying to convince my
husband of it, and not to mention my mom(please no
grief, i know im my own person, blah blah, but we are
very close, and we just happen to be living w/ her at
the moment)so im wondering how to convence them, and
if there is, or might ever be a conference in texas?
i think if we all could go , it would help alot . how
much is it also and stuff like that? thanks a bunch
yall!!! ~ jesika~ mom to echo
---
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conference. i guess i wasnt paying alot of mind
because i wasnt completley sold on the whole
unschooling thing. but i also am trying to convince my
husband of it, and not to mention my mom(please no
grief, i know im my own person, blah blah, but we are
very close, and we just happen to be living w/ her at
the moment)so im wondering how to convence them, and
if there is, or might ever be a conference in texas?
i think if we all could go , it would help alot . how
much is it also and stuff like that? thanks a bunch
yall!!! ~ jesika~ mom to echo
---
>__________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/2004 12:04:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
crystal.pina@... writes:
Last year at this time, I was feeling very out of sorts. I knew that
homeschooling was right for us that I just couldn't go through another year doing
things the way we had always done them with a co-op and some sort of textbook
approach. I thought I knew what unschooling was and had read some John Holt and
knew who Sandra Dodd was. I came upon the Live and Learn Conference
information and it was only a 6 hour drive from our house!! My husband does love to
go places new so I asked him if we could just drive up to Columbia for the
weekend...see the sights...go to the conference..:-) I know he wasn't thrilled
about the conference part but I think he did it just because it might help lift
my spirits a bit and he wanted to see some of North Carolina.
So we did. We didn't know anyone or anything about it really but we wandered
around a little and people talked to us!!! Kelly came up and welcomed us!!
The kids were all having a wonderful time and I had never seen so much
giggling and fun going on in elevators!
My 13 year old daughter (who had brought her textbooks from her co-op with
us) was smiling and went right up to the front row at the talent show to listen.
My 10 year old son was in heaven with all the Yu-Gi-Oh cards floating around.
And the dads. They were truly present and with their children. One of them
sang the Sponge Bob song at the talent show. Others were in the funshops
having every bit as much fun as their kids. My husband didn't go to the Dad's get
together because we sort of just stumbled in not knowing anything about the
conference. However, on the drive home we talked and laughed and I knew it had
been one of those "life-changing" moments.
And it was. We came home and never looked back. We deschooled and I read and
when I had doubts when our son sat in front of the TV for weeks on end he
reassured me. He told me just last week that he is so proud of me for making all
the huge changes that I made this past year and knows it is the right path
for the kids.
He's right. Its the right path for us all. He made sure we had the hotel
reservations months ago and has printed out MapQuest for the drive. This year,
I think its a 20 hour drive. He is so excited and definitely plans on being
at the Dad's gathering.
So I think a little pushing would be worth it. It worked for us. If you can
just get him there, the conference speaks for itself. It is awesome!!!
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal.pina@... writes:
> Thank you, Kelly, for sharing this. I, even more now, want myI would push a little. I think it will be worth it.
> husband to attend the conference. Right now he still doesn't want
> to go. I think if I pushed he would, though.
>
>
Last year at this time, I was feeling very out of sorts. I knew that
homeschooling was right for us that I just couldn't go through another year doing
things the way we had always done them with a co-op and some sort of textbook
approach. I thought I knew what unschooling was and had read some John Holt and
knew who Sandra Dodd was. I came upon the Live and Learn Conference
information and it was only a 6 hour drive from our house!! My husband does love to
go places new so I asked him if we could just drive up to Columbia for the
weekend...see the sights...go to the conference..:-) I know he wasn't thrilled
about the conference part but I think he did it just because it might help lift
my spirits a bit and he wanted to see some of North Carolina.
So we did. We didn't know anyone or anything about it really but we wandered
around a little and people talked to us!!! Kelly came up and welcomed us!!
The kids were all having a wonderful time and I had never seen so much
giggling and fun going on in elevators!
My 13 year old daughter (who had brought her textbooks from her co-op with
us) was smiling and went right up to the front row at the talent show to listen.
My 10 year old son was in heaven with all the Yu-Gi-Oh cards floating around.
And the dads. They were truly present and with their children. One of them
sang the Sponge Bob song at the talent show. Others were in the funshops
having every bit as much fun as their kids. My husband didn't go to the Dad's get
together because we sort of just stumbled in not knowing anything about the
conference. However, on the drive home we talked and laughed and I knew it had
been one of those "life-changing" moments.
And it was. We came home and never looked back. We deschooled and I read and
when I had doubts when our son sat in front of the TV for weeks on end he
reassured me. He told me just last week that he is so proud of me for making all
the huge changes that I made this past year and knows it is the right path
for the kids.
He's right. Its the right path for us all. He made sure we had the hotel
reservations months ago and has printed out MapQuest for the drive. This year,
I think its a 20 hour drive. He is so excited and definitely plans on being
at the Dad's gathering.
So I think a little pushing would be worth it. It worked for us. If you can
just get him there, the conference speaks for itself. It is awesome!!!
Gail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Here ya go Jesika, :)
http://liveandlearnconference.org This is for this year's conference, in Peabody, MA.
Kelli~
jesika hare <jesika2starr@...> wrote:
ok ... im slacking big time on the info on the
conference. i guess i wasnt paying alot of mind
because i wasnt completley sold on the whole
unschooling thing. but i also am trying to convince my
husband of it, and not to mention my mom(please no
grief, i know im my own person, blah blah, but we are
very close, and we just happen to be living w/ her at
the moment)so im wondering how to convence them, and
if there is, or might ever be a conference in texas?
i think if we all could go , it would help alot . how
much is it also and stuff like that? thanks a bunch
yall!!! ~ jesika~ mom to echo
---
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://liveandlearnconference.org This is for this year's conference, in Peabody, MA.
Kelli~
jesika hare <jesika2starr@...> wrote:
ok ... im slacking big time on the info on the
conference. i guess i wasnt paying alot of mind
because i wasnt completley sold on the whole
unschooling thing. but i also am trying to convince my
husband of it, and not to mention my mom(please no
grief, i know im my own person, blah blah, but we are
very close, and we just happen to be living w/ her at
the moment)so im wondering how to convence them, and
if there is, or might ever be a conference in texas?
i think if we all could go , it would help alot . how
much is it also and stuff like that? thanks a bunch
yall!!! ~ jesika~ mom to echo
---
>__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
WOW!
If this doesn't get a husband to the conference, I don't know what will!
Thanks, Gail!
~Kelly
In a message dated 8/13/2004 11:23:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gailbrocop@... writes:
I would push a little. I think it will be worth it.
Last year at this time, I was feeling very out of sorts. I knew that
homeschooling was right for us that I just couldn't go through another year
doing
things the way we had always done them with a co-op and some sort of
textbook
approach. I thought I knew what unschooling was and had read some John
Holt and
knew who Sandra Dodd was. I came upon the Live and Learn Conference
information and it was only a 6 hour drive from our house!! My husband does
love to
go places new so I asked him if we could just drive up to Columbia for the
weekend...see the sights...go to the conference..:-) I know he wasn't
thrilled
about the conference part but I think he did it just because it might help
lift
my spirits a bit and he wanted to see some of North Carolina.
So we did. We didn't know anyone or anything about it really but we
wandered
around a little and people talked to us!!! Kelly came up and welcomed us!!
The kids were all having a wonderful time and I had never seen so much
giggling and fun going on in elevators!
My 13 year old daughter (who had brought her textbooks from her co-op with
us) was smiling and went right up to the front row at the talent show to
listen.
My 10 year old son was in heaven with all the Yu-Gi-Oh cards floating
around.
And the dads. They were truly present and with their children. One of them
sang the Sponge Bob song at the talent show. Others were in the funshops
having every bit as much fun as their kids. My husband didn't go to the
Dad's get
together because we sort of just stumbled in not knowing anything about the
conference. However, on the drive home we talked and laughed and I knew it
had
been one of those "life-changing" moments.
And it was. We came home and never looked back. We deschooled and I read
and
when I had doubts when our son sat in front of the TV for weeks on end he
reassured me. He told me just last week that he is so proud of me for
making all
the huge changes that I made this past year and knows it is the right path
for the kids.
He's right. Its the right path for us all. He made sure we had the hotel
reservations months ago and has printed out MapQuest for the drive. This
year,
I think its a 20 hour drive. He is so excited and definitely plans on being
at the Dad's gathering.
So I think a little pushing would be worth it. It worked for us. If you
can
just get him there, the conference speaks for itself. It is awesome!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If this doesn't get a husband to the conference, I don't know what will!
Thanks, Gail!
~Kelly
In a message dated 8/13/2004 11:23:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gailbrocop@... writes:
I would push a little. I think it will be worth it.
Last year at this time, I was feeling very out of sorts. I knew that
homeschooling was right for us that I just couldn't go through another year
doing
things the way we had always done them with a co-op and some sort of
textbook
approach. I thought I knew what unschooling was and had read some John
Holt and
knew who Sandra Dodd was. I came upon the Live and Learn Conference
information and it was only a 6 hour drive from our house!! My husband does
love to
go places new so I asked him if we could just drive up to Columbia for the
weekend...see the sights...go to the conference..:-) I know he wasn't
thrilled
about the conference part but I think he did it just because it might help
lift
my spirits a bit and he wanted to see some of North Carolina.
So we did. We didn't know anyone or anything about it really but we
wandered
around a little and people talked to us!!! Kelly came up and welcomed us!!
The kids were all having a wonderful time and I had never seen so much
giggling and fun going on in elevators!
My 13 year old daughter (who had brought her textbooks from her co-op with
us) was smiling and went right up to the front row at the talent show to
listen.
My 10 year old son was in heaven with all the Yu-Gi-Oh cards floating
around.
And the dads. They were truly present and with their children. One of them
sang the Sponge Bob song at the talent show. Others were in the funshops
having every bit as much fun as their kids. My husband didn't go to the
Dad's get
together because we sort of just stumbled in not knowing anything about the
conference. However, on the drive home we talked and laughed and I knew it
had
been one of those "life-changing" moments.
And it was. We came home and never looked back. We deschooled and I read
and
when I had doubts when our son sat in front of the TV for weeks on end he
reassured me. He told me just last week that he is so proud of me for
making all
the huge changes that I made this past year and knows it is the right path
for the kids.
He's right. Its the right path for us all. He made sure we had the hotel
reservations months ago and has printed out MapQuest for the drive. This
year,
I think its a 20 hour drive. He is so excited and definitely plans on being
at the Dad's gathering.
So I think a little pushing would be worth it. It worked for us. If you
can
just get him there, the conference speaks for itself. It is awesome!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]