Homeschooling dilemma...need help-LONG
Shannon
Alright, this is my first year hsing all 5 of my kids ages
12,8,7,3,20m. We started out kinda structured and rapidly went to
total unschooling. I've read the books and love the idea, but I feel
like I'm not "doing" enough. It seems like no actual "work" is ever
getting done. We read a lot, but no one is interested in writing
anything, or learning about grammaror math (who wants to do that?)
or any one subject for longer than it takes me to get some books and
materials together. They are seeming to get bored very quickly, then
they want to move onto another topic, and the cycle starts again.
And I know that true unschooling looks like a lot of random thoughts
and ideas that actually fit together to make an education, and I'm
probably just panicking way too early, but I feel like maybe they
would be better off in school. We're having a really hard time
finding other kids to hang with on a consistent basis, and even when
my kids are in groups with other kids, they tend to cluster together
and not mingle. I don't want to end up with a houseful of kids who
can only interact with each other, y'know? And my oldest (7th grade)
is talking about maybe wanting to go to VoTech for highschool, and I
know they're going to want transcripts, etc, and I honestly don't
know what they've learned so far this year! My ex-husband is
requiring tests-of some sort-on who-knows-what to be done once per
month and I don't even know what I'm going to show him to appease
him. We have generated almost NO paper! Our normal day consists of
everyone getting up, eating (at different times) and then the boys
head off to the library where they spend most of the day on RPG
games and sometimes help out the librarians, while my daughters stay
home and play together and watch tv. There's a lot of outside play
for the girls and painting/art projects, but the boys aren't even
interested in doing that. They all help out around the house and
have chores and in the evening we either run to Aikido or
basketball, or stay home where they watch MORE tv! My daughter also
does gymnastics and piano lessons during the day. So, I guess what
I'm looking for is suggestions/ideas and for someone to talk me down
off the ledge. I really LOVE having them home with me all the time,
and they are doing really well together, and I really don't want to
put them in school as a knee-jerk reaction if this is all part of
the process. Help...?
12,8,7,3,20m. We started out kinda structured and rapidly went to
total unschooling. I've read the books and love the idea, but I feel
like I'm not "doing" enough. It seems like no actual "work" is ever
getting done. We read a lot, but no one is interested in writing
anything, or learning about grammaror math (who wants to do that?)
or any one subject for longer than it takes me to get some books and
materials together. They are seeming to get bored very quickly, then
they want to move onto another topic, and the cycle starts again.
And I know that true unschooling looks like a lot of random thoughts
and ideas that actually fit together to make an education, and I'm
probably just panicking way too early, but I feel like maybe they
would be better off in school. We're having a really hard time
finding other kids to hang with on a consistent basis, and even when
my kids are in groups with other kids, they tend to cluster together
and not mingle. I don't want to end up with a houseful of kids who
can only interact with each other, y'know? And my oldest (7th grade)
is talking about maybe wanting to go to VoTech for highschool, and I
know they're going to want transcripts, etc, and I honestly don't
know what they've learned so far this year! My ex-husband is
requiring tests-of some sort-on who-knows-what to be done once per
month and I don't even know what I'm going to show him to appease
him. We have generated almost NO paper! Our normal day consists of
everyone getting up, eating (at different times) and then the boys
head off to the library where they spend most of the day on RPG
games and sometimes help out the librarians, while my daughters stay
home and play together and watch tv. There's a lot of outside play
for the girls and painting/art projects, but the boys aren't even
interested in doing that. They all help out around the house and
have chores and in the evening we either run to Aikido or
basketball, or stay home where they watch MORE tv! My daughter also
does gymnastics and piano lessons during the day. So, I guess what
I'm looking for is suggestions/ideas and for someone to talk me down
off the ledge. I really LOVE having them home with me all the time,
and they are doing really well together, and I really don't want to
put them in school as a knee-jerk reaction if this is all part of
the process. Help...?
Karen Buxcel
Shannon,
Relax....and Breathe.... :)
Your children are being children! And quite busy children from the sounds
of it. Are they happy? Are they asking to do 'schoolwork'? Unschooling is
really about allowing them to follow their own path, and we sort of need to
just get out of the way so they can do that. (while always being VERY
available, to help them navigate, talk about what's interesting to them,
answer their questions, provide other resources/opportunities).
It sounds to me like your biggest concern/fear is the requirement laid down
by your husband that they test once per month. Ooo, that's a toughie for
me. My reaction would be to say "Forget It"! (but that's just my big mouth
way!) I'm sure you want him to be comfortable and supportive of this
decision, and he likely shares the same fear with you, of your children not
"doing anything", which in turn, worsens your fear, and so begins a vicious
cycle! ;)
Maybe you could start a blog? There, you could chronicle what you did each
day or week, or whenever you feel inspired. You could put up lots of
pictures of what's going on in your home. You'll be surprised to see and
find all that learning happening, even it it doesn't consist of "doing math"
or "writing" or "grammar practice". I bet your older kids would even love
to have their own blog. Lots of writing required, there, too! (And it'll
be FUN and meaningful to them (but only if *they* want to do it).
I guess the biggest question I would ask myself is: "Are my children
content? Are they happy?" If they are, what more could I ask for? Of
course, they aren't going to be happy every second of every day, but in
those moments, I can really step in and meet that need, whatever it might
be.
Keep reading here and Trust that your children are amazing, whole people who
are learning every second of every day. Be available to them, and have fun
together.
I know you'll get so much good advice here!
And remember, relax, breathe, find the Joy, and have FUN!
Karen
--
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know
peace."
Jimi Hendrix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Relax....and Breathe.... :)
Your children are being children! And quite busy children from the sounds
of it. Are they happy? Are they asking to do 'schoolwork'? Unschooling is
really about allowing them to follow their own path, and we sort of need to
just get out of the way so they can do that. (while always being VERY
available, to help them navigate, talk about what's interesting to them,
answer their questions, provide other resources/opportunities).
It sounds to me like your biggest concern/fear is the requirement laid down
by your husband that they test once per month. Ooo, that's a toughie for
me. My reaction would be to say "Forget It"! (but that's just my big mouth
way!) I'm sure you want him to be comfortable and supportive of this
decision, and he likely shares the same fear with you, of your children not
"doing anything", which in turn, worsens your fear, and so begins a vicious
cycle! ;)
Maybe you could start a blog? There, you could chronicle what you did each
day or week, or whenever you feel inspired. You could put up lots of
pictures of what's going on in your home. You'll be surprised to see and
find all that learning happening, even it it doesn't consist of "doing math"
or "writing" or "grammar practice". I bet your older kids would even love
to have their own blog. Lots of writing required, there, too! (And it'll
be FUN and meaningful to them (but only if *they* want to do it).
I guess the biggest question I would ask myself is: "Are my children
content? Are they happy?" If they are, what more could I ask for? Of
course, they aren't going to be happy every second of every day, but in
those moments, I can really step in and meet that need, whatever it might
be.
Keep reading here and Trust that your children are amazing, whole people who
are learning every second of every day. Be available to them, and have fun
together.
I know you'll get so much good advice here!
And remember, relax, breathe, find the Joy, and have FUN!
Karen
--
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know
peace."
Jimi Hendrix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], "Shannon" <rjmak5@...> wrote:
My son has cycled round passions over time -- and the time varies
wildly -- on lots of things, from yo-yoing to codes, to fractals, to
you-name-it. They get what they need and can absorb at that stage and
move on. Sometimes they don't come back to the topic, sometimes they
do, repeatedly, as they are ready for more. It takes time to
assimilate the material and make it their own. How much time depends
on too many factors to quantify.
What if you kept a personal journal of their activities, books, etc?
Might that help ease your concerns? Sometimes when you have it there
on paper, all those things you forgot they were doing can wow you.
Best of luck!
Linda
>We read a lot, but no one is interested in writingMany people (and kids are people) learn in cycles, passions, whatever.
> anything, or learning about grammaror math (who wants to do that?)
> or any one subject for longer than it takes me to get some books and
> materials together. They are seeming to get bored very quickly, then
> they want to move onto another topic, and the cycle starts again.
My son has cycled round passions over time -- and the time varies
wildly -- on lots of things, from yo-yoing to codes, to fractals, to
you-name-it. They get what they need and can absorb at that stage and
move on. Sometimes they don't come back to the topic, sometimes they
do, repeatedly, as they are ready for more. It takes time to
assimilate the material and make it their own. How much time depends
on too many factors to quantify.
What if you kept a personal journal of their activities, books, etc?
Might that help ease your concerns? Sometimes when you have it there
on paper, all those things you forgot they were doing can wow you.
Best of luck!
Linda
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/15/2007 9:38:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rjmak5@... writes:
We read a lot, but no one is interested in writing
anything, or learning about grammaror math (who wants to do that?)
or any one subject for longer than it takes me to get some books and
materials together.
________________________
first, its just the first year. they haven't been out of school very ong at
all yet, and this takes time and patience, to move through the deschooling
process. longer for some, shorter for others. it took my son, age 18, about 13
months to deschool, and of course, he's not fully deschooled yet. but that is
approx. 1 month for each year in school, and that's a rough gage, each child
being different, but its a guide to help you gauge the time it takes to go
through this process.
but you say "lots" of reading...that's an excellent way to learn grammar,
spelling, sentence structure, let alone a subject of interest of course. math
will come, it happens very naturally and easily (i am a mathaphobe, and i am
deschooling myself, and see how easily it can come when its not taught to me,
kwim?) a neat thing you can try, if you like, is creating a budget for your
kids. either with real money or a stand-in, its a great way to see math happen
and engage basic life skills. perhaps your oldest would be most interested, i
don't know of course, but setting up an excel program, or a real checkbook,
with the weekly/monthly bills and income there was a lot of fun for a few
kids i know.
hth, at least a bit!
Karen PS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rjmak5@... writes:
We read a lot, but no one is interested in writing
anything, or learning about grammaror math (who wants to do that?)
or any one subject for longer than it takes me to get some books and
materials together.
________________________
first, its just the first year. they haven't been out of school very ong at
all yet, and this takes time and patience, to move through the deschooling
process. longer for some, shorter for others. it took my son, age 18, about 13
months to deschool, and of course, he's not fully deschooled yet. but that is
approx. 1 month for each year in school, and that's a rough gage, each child
being different, but its a guide to help you gauge the time it takes to go
through this process.
but you say "lots" of reading...that's an excellent way to learn grammar,
spelling, sentence structure, let alone a subject of interest of course. math
will come, it happens very naturally and easily (i am a mathaphobe, and i am
deschooling myself, and see how easily it can come when its not taught to me,
kwim?) a neat thing you can try, if you like, is creating a budget for your
kids. either with real money or a stand-in, its a great way to see math happen
and engage basic life skills. perhaps your oldest would be most interested, i
don't know of course, but setting up an excel program, or a real checkbook,
with the weekly/monthly bills and income there was a lot of fun for a few
kids i know.
hth, at least a bit!
Karen PS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
My boys are Star Wars freaks. Well, we all are. Anyway, they play Star
Wars Empire at War on the computer and to win the game they have to figure
out budgeting of time, money, and resources. I don't have to say "You don't
have enough money for XYZ" anymore. They understand the concept of the
budget etc because of that game. There are other ways to teach the basic
concepts. Try Civilization IV for history, resource management, trade
routes, pollution, and any other civilization issue you can imagine.
You said your kids play computer games, which ones do they play?
Karen
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wars Empire at War on the computer and to win the game they have to figure
out budgeting of time, money, and resources. I don't have to say "You don't
have enough money for XYZ" anymore. They understand the concept of the
budget etc because of that game. There are other ways to teach the basic
concepts. Try Civilization IV for history, resource management, trade
routes, pollution, and any other civilization issue you can imagine.
You said your kids play computer games, which ones do they play?
Karen
>--
>
>
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rjmakmom
My 12yo plays Dragonfable and Adventure Quest and MechQuest- I really know nothing about any of them.
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote: My boys are Star Wars freaks. Well, we all are. Anyway, they play Star
Wars Empire at War on the computer and to win the game they have to figure
out budgeting of time, money, and resources. I don't have to say "You don't
have enough money for XYZ" anymore. They understand the concept of the
budget etc because of that game. There are other ways to teach the basic
concepts. Try Civilization IV for history, resource management, trade
routes, pollution, and any other civilization issue you can imagine.
You said your kids play computer games, which ones do they play?
Karen
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
Mom to Ricky, Justin, Maria, Abby & Katy
Anyone who says 'Easy as taking candy from a baby' has never tried it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote: My boys are Star Wars freaks. Well, we all are. Anyway, they play Star
Wars Empire at War on the computer and to win the game they have to figure
out budgeting of time, money, and resources. I don't have to say "You don't
have enough money for XYZ" anymore. They understand the concept of the
budget etc because of that game. There are other ways to teach the basic
concepts. Try Civilization IV for history, resource management, trade
routes, pollution, and any other civilization issue you can imagine.
You said your kids play computer games, which ones do they play?
Karen
>--
>
>
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon
Mom to Ricky, Justin, Maria, Abby & Katy
Anyone who says 'Easy as taking candy from a baby' has never tried it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Well I just looked the games up and I think if you installed them and poked
around a bit you'd be surprised at what he's learning by playing. I am not
going to install the games but I would guess there is a hefty amount of
reading and a certain amount of math involved. But you should figure it
out, IMO I wouldn't let my kid play games I didn't know anything about
(especially since on-line MMOs are prime places for pedophiles to find kids)
but if you did at least see how the games worked, you'd be able to say with
confidence "He is reading, using math, and complex hand-eye skills."
I play a Star Wars MMORPG and I know I use math all the time, reading, and
complex and fast figuring of strategy and skill. There are good things to
be found in games but you'll have to actually figure out what he's getting
from the games he's playing. I'm guessing you will be pleasantly surprised
at the skills involved and necessary.
Karen
around a bit you'd be surprised at what he's learning by playing. I am not
going to install the games but I would guess there is a hefty amount of
reading and a certain amount of math involved. But you should figure it
out, IMO I wouldn't let my kid play games I didn't know anything about
(especially since on-line MMOs are prime places for pedophiles to find kids)
but if you did at least see how the games worked, you'd be able to say with
confidence "He is reading, using math, and complex hand-eye skills."
I play a Star Wars MMORPG and I know I use math all the time, reading, and
complex and fast figuring of strategy and skill. There are good things to
be found in games but you'll have to actually figure out what he's getting
from the games he's playing. I'm guessing you will be pleasantly surprised
at the skills involved and necessary.
Karen
On 10/15/07, rjmakmom <rjmak5@...> wrote:
>
> My 12yo plays Dragonfable and Adventure Quest and MechQuest- I really
> know nothing about any of them.
>
> Karen Swanay <luvbullbreeds@... <luvbullbreeds%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> My boys are Star Wars freaks. Well, we all are. Anyway, they play Star
> Wars Empire at War on the computer and to win the game they have to figure
> out budgeting of time, money, and resources. I don't have to say "You
> don't
> have enough money for XYZ" anymore. They understand the concept of the
> budget etc because of that game. There are other ways to teach the basic
> concepts. Try Civilization IV for history, resource management, trade
> routes, pollution, and any other civilization issue you can imagine.
>
> You said your kids play computer games, which ones do they play?
>
> Karen
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
>
> LOI 1/26/07
> PA 3/22/07
> DTC 8/10/07
> Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
>
> ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Shannon
> Mom to Ricky, Justin, Maria, Abby & Katy
>
> Anyone who says 'Easy as taking candy from a baby' has never tried it.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."
LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.
~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon Rizzo
Hi Shannon,
My name is Shannon too - I'll start signing my posts with my last initial.
Welcome to the list. If this is your first year homeschooling, your oldest
three are still in the deschooling phase. There really is a value in
backing off and letting them recuperate from their past school lives. They
already sound very active and healthy. I believe boredom is not a bad
thing; it is an opportunity for them to explore what they want to do, or to
choose to do nothing. If they have been used to always doing something,
having deadlines or deliverables, maybe they subconsciously feel guilty or
unsettled at being presented with the choice of doing "nothing."
You mentioned concern about math; I hope what you'll find here alleviates
that fear. We enjoy playing games such as Equate, Monopoly, poker, and one
site we enjoy poking around on is livingmath.net. The concept, as you
probably guessed, is to realize that math is all around us and we don't need
textbooks to "learn" it. Thinking outside the box - there is "math" in art
and music and cooking and hopscotch - it's everywhere and it's fun! The
creator of the site, a homeschooling mom, does provide curriculum guides, so
it's not an unschooling site, but you can use it however you like. We like
browsing for interesting looking titles - one library book my girls loved
was about the ancient Greek librarian who was the first to measure the
earth. Right now we're reading "Mathematicians are People Too: Stories
from the Lives of Great Mathematicians." A most unfortunate and boring
title, but the snippets (about 4-5 pages per historical figure) really bring
the characters to life.
For example, the Greek philospher Pythagoras began by teaching just one
student and evolved to having a school of wealthy adult scholars. He divided
his students into two sections: the acoustici, or listeners. The acoustici
could only listen to him lecture from behind a curtain; they hadn't proven
themselves worthy of observing the lecture. Only after three years of
listening were they allowed into the privileged "mathematici" circle of
learners. He lectured in a white robe with gold sandals on his feet and a
golden wreath as a crown, and he worked his problems in sand on the floor.
He used colored sand to illustrate sections of geometric shapes.
He believed that numbers held the answer to everything in the universe, that
knowledge was power, and he wanted to control it. His school became the
"Secret Brotherhood" aka "Pythagorean School" and it had initiations and
rites. They were vegetarian, believing they could be reincarnated as
animals, wouldn't touch white roosters or eat beans b/c those symbolized
perfection. Fire symbolized truth, so they wouldn't stir it with iron
pokers. They wore their symbol, a pentagram, on their clothing. And even
though women were in those days not allowed to attend public meetings, he
welcomed women into his school.
Others around them were suspicious of them and in about 500 BC a mob set his
meetinghouse on fire during a class; Pythagorus was killed. But by this time
the Pythagorean School had spread to Sicily and Southern Italy and his
knowledge spread. The only thing I learned in school about him was his
Pythagorean Theorum. It would have been much more interesting had they
bothered to show his quirks and show the living person behind the formulas.
Most of the books she recommends are available from the library, and it may
be fun reading for your kids while appeasing the math concerns of your
husband - just a thought.
Shannon R
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date: 10/15/2007
6:48 AM
My name is Shannon too - I'll start signing my posts with my last initial.
Welcome to the list. If this is your first year homeschooling, your oldest
three are still in the deschooling phase. There really is a value in
backing off and letting them recuperate from their past school lives. They
already sound very active and healthy. I believe boredom is not a bad
thing; it is an opportunity for them to explore what they want to do, or to
choose to do nothing. If they have been used to always doing something,
having deadlines or deliverables, maybe they subconsciously feel guilty or
unsettled at being presented with the choice of doing "nothing."
You mentioned concern about math; I hope what you'll find here alleviates
that fear. We enjoy playing games such as Equate, Monopoly, poker, and one
site we enjoy poking around on is livingmath.net. The concept, as you
probably guessed, is to realize that math is all around us and we don't need
textbooks to "learn" it. Thinking outside the box - there is "math" in art
and music and cooking and hopscotch - it's everywhere and it's fun! The
creator of the site, a homeschooling mom, does provide curriculum guides, so
it's not an unschooling site, but you can use it however you like. We like
browsing for interesting looking titles - one library book my girls loved
was about the ancient Greek librarian who was the first to measure the
earth. Right now we're reading "Mathematicians are People Too: Stories
from the Lives of Great Mathematicians." A most unfortunate and boring
title, but the snippets (about 4-5 pages per historical figure) really bring
the characters to life.
For example, the Greek philospher Pythagoras began by teaching just one
student and evolved to having a school of wealthy adult scholars. He divided
his students into two sections: the acoustici, or listeners. The acoustici
could only listen to him lecture from behind a curtain; they hadn't proven
themselves worthy of observing the lecture. Only after three years of
listening were they allowed into the privileged "mathematici" circle of
learners. He lectured in a white robe with gold sandals on his feet and a
golden wreath as a crown, and he worked his problems in sand on the floor.
He used colored sand to illustrate sections of geometric shapes.
He believed that numbers held the answer to everything in the universe, that
knowledge was power, and he wanted to control it. His school became the
"Secret Brotherhood" aka "Pythagorean School" and it had initiations and
rites. They were vegetarian, believing they could be reincarnated as
animals, wouldn't touch white roosters or eat beans b/c those symbolized
perfection. Fire symbolized truth, so they wouldn't stir it with iron
pokers. They wore their symbol, a pentagram, on their clothing. And even
though women were in those days not allowed to attend public meetings, he
welcomed women into his school.
Others around them were suspicious of them and in about 500 BC a mob set his
meetinghouse on fire during a class; Pythagorus was killed. But by this time
the Pythagorean School had spread to Sicily and Southern Italy and his
knowledge spread. The only thing I learned in school about him was his
Pythagorean Theorum. It would have been much more interesting had they
bothered to show his quirks and show the living person behind the formulas.
Most of the books she recommends are available from the library, and it may
be fun reading for your kids while appeasing the math concerns of your
husband - just a thought.
Shannon R
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date: 10/15/2007
6:48 AM