[email protected]

In a message dated 10/11/2007 11:46:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
littlemsvoid@... writes:

agreed, i turned it off less than half way through. That is exactly what I
DON"T want to be!
Faith



_________________

me too! prompted me to find Dayna Martin videos and a new site to learn from!
yay!

Karen





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Johnstone

I think it's sad that not one loving thing was said until the "I love
you" at bedtime.

Just watching that video makes me tense. I can't imagine having that
woman following me around all day saying those things.

KIm


--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/11/2007 11:46:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> littlemsvoid@... writes:
>
> agreed, i turned it off less than half way through. That is exactly
what I
> DON"T want to be!
> Faith
>
>
>
> _________________
>
> me too! prompted me to find Dayna Martin videos and a new site to
learn from!
> yay!
>
> Karen
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joni Zander

Oh yeah, I had a woman send this link to me last weekend as really funny and
uplifting. This was my reply to her, "Wow - that is one of the saddest
things I've seen. Do people really LIKE to treat their kids with such
disrespect? I can just imagine if my husband or friend said even of few of
those things to me in one day, they wouldn't hold that position in my life
for very long. Do our kids deserve less than we do?"

I just couldn't help myself. I'm sure she totally didn't understand why I
wouldn't think it was funny, since I'm a mom.

--
Joni Zander


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "Joni Zander" <photoceo@...>
wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, I had a woman send this link to me last weekend as really
funny and
> uplifting. This was my reply to her, "Wow - that is one of the saddest
> things I've seen. Do people really LIKE to treat their kids with such
> disrespect?


Actually, I thought it was funny -- think back to YOUR childhood.
(I'm assuming the odds are high you weren't unschooled!) I remember
so many (not all, of course, as it was obviously a parody of
stereotypic comments) of those phrases, albeit never all in a day.

Linda

Cameron Parham

The wrenching thing to me was that the tone was adversarial and clearly the 'mother's voice' was one of endurance...far from joy. And it was so sad that she immediately got a standing ovation! I am sure that the audience felt entirely in tune with her long-suffering, kids-are-adversaries tone! This is the real tone of most adults, and certainly many teachers whom I have known. They aren't generally even conscious of the depth of these feelings and their far-reaching consequences.


----- Original Message ----
From: trektheory <trektheory@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:58:13 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re:Mom Video

--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "Joni Zander" <photoceo@.. .>
wrote:
>
> Oh yeah, I had a woman send this link to me last weekend as really
funny and
> uplifting. This was my reply to her, "Wow - that is one of the saddest
> things I've seen. Do people really LIKE to treat their kids with such
> disrespect?

Actually, I thought it was funny -- think back to YOUR childhood.
(I'm assuming the odds are high you weren't unschooled!) I remember
so many (not all, of course, as it was obviously a parody of
stereotypic comments) of those phrases, albeit never all in a day.

Linda




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/12/2007 9:33:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
acsp2205@... writes:

They aren't generally even conscious of the depth of these feelings and
their far-reaching consequences.



And THAT is what gets me! Yes, yes, YES!

Karen PS



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>
> The wrenching thing to me was that the tone was adversarial and
clearly the 'mother's voice' was one of endurance...far from joy. And
it was so sad that she immediately got a standing ovation! I am sure
that the audience felt entirely in tune with her long-suffering,
kids-are-adversaries tone! This is the real tone of most adults, and
certainly many teachers whom I have known. They aren't generally even
conscious of the depth of these feelings and their far-reaching
consequences.
>
>

But she was poking fun at herself, mothers in general! I didn't see
it as she's long-suffering, kids-are-adversaries at all. Just a
common thread of "these are phrases mothers have been saying for
generations."

She's a comedian, after all!

Linda

Cameron Parham

Linda writes "She's a commedian!" OK, Linda, I see your point, too. I know we can get too serious and fail to poke fun at things, especially issues close to our hearts. I still took it as I said, but am open to your view. I'll take it as a warning not to get too stuffy!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

Glad to hear it! I figure, we can choose to laugh or choose to cry --
and I just love to laugh! ;-)

Linda

--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>
> Linda writes "She's a commedian!"

OK, Linda, I see your point, too. I
know we can get too serious and fail to poke fun at things, especially
issues close to our hearts. I still took it as I said, but am open to
your view. I'll take it as a warning not to get too stuffy!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

onthelongroad

I find this video hilarious because it does remind me of my life. While
I have never said all these phrases in one day, I've certainly used many
of them. My tween no longer gets up without my wake up call, as she
used to when she was younger. Like many teens, her body naturally wants
to keep her awake at night and asleep in the morning. However, she has
to wake up at 8am, not 11am, to fulfill her commitments. My son doesn't
brush his teeth without my reminder.

I often have to teach and remind my kids to wake up, dress appropriately
for the weather, clean up, eat the food on the plate, use decent table
manners, be fair to others, treat their siblings well, etc.

I'm really surprised to find that there are moms who never have to teach
and remind their kids to do any of these things. I would love to learn
how to get the kids to do these things without my coaxing.

Sandra,
http://onlivingbylearning.blogspot.com/2007/10/total-momsense-revisted.h\
tml
<http://onlivingbylearning.blogspot.com/2007/10/total-momsense-revisted.\
html>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

***Just a
common thread of "these are phrases mothers have been saying for
generations."
She's a comedian, after all!***

It wouldn't have been considered funny if it was phrases slave owners
used for generations.
It wouldn't have been funny if it was phrases people used about
minorities.
It would not have been funny if it was disparaging women - maybe a guy
singing about how his wife is always spending money and on the rag and
bitching. What other "funny" things get said about women?

It was all about having to put up with kids who are so ignorant, lazy,
stupid, thoughtless and bad they have to be told every minute how to be
and how to live.

Deb Lewis

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 12, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Deb Lewis wrote:

> It wouldn't have been considered funny if it was phrases slave owners
> used for generations.

It might have been if it were an ex-slave comedian stringing the
phrases together for an audience of ex-slaves.

I think it's funny because lots of us grew up hearing those.

I think it's disturbing -- though expectedly so -- because the women
are certain that's how their lives with their own kids need to be.

Comedians are funny when they hold an old practice up to a new light
to give insight. Like gets done here (though we don't get many yuks
so we fail as comedians! Except for Deb ;-)

It would have been cool if the mothers could have said "Oh, my
goodness, is that what I sound like? Is that what it feels like? I
need something better!" But the laughter shared undoubtedly convinced
them even further that that's the way life needs to be.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hbmccarty

Many times it is about HOW you communicate.

Communicating with kids is one things, giving orders is another.

Sometimes just saying nothing, and waiting for them to figure out that
whatever it is is important for them to do. When it is important to
THEM, they will do it.

If it is something you feel is important to YOU and you must say
something about it, then you can say it in a respectful, giving
information kind of way.

When my kids have arranged a morning activity(their choice)- I knock on
their doors and ask- "do you want to get up to go to such and such? They
say yes and get up, because they want to. If they don't want to they can
stay in bed. If my daughter doesn't want to get up to go to something my
son has arranged, then I ask her what she would like to do - go to the
craft store or out to breakfast, for example, then she wants to get up, too.

I will inform them that it is colder today than it has been, and if they
don't want to wear a coat, I'll throw one in the car for them.

My kids brush their teeth because their mouths feel better when they do.

They eat the food on their plate usually because they chose what to put
on it. If not, then someone else will eat it, or we can put it away for
later.

When my kids are treating each other poorly- it is because of how they
are feeling, so I make sure they are each safe and attempt to validate
their feelings and I might talk about how I feel when I see them
treating each other that way.

You may not "get" your kids to do the things you want them to do, but
they will learn to care for themselves and be respectful if you are
respectful and care for them and yourself and give them needed real
information.

Heather




onthelongroad wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm really surprised to find that there are moms who never have to teach
> and remind their kids to do any of these things. I would love to learn
> how to get the kids to do these things without my coaxing.
>
>
>
>

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Deb Lewis" <d.lewis@...>
wrote:
> What other "funny" things get said about women?

Or men for that matter - oh, wait its:

> all about having to put up with [guys] who are so ignorant, lazy,
> stupid, thoughtless and bad they have to be told every minute how to
be
> and how to live.

Drives me nuts.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Ren Allen

~~I often have to teach and remind my kids to wake up, dress
appropriately for the weather, clean up, eat the food on the plate,
use decent table manners, be fair to others, treat their siblings
well, etc.~~

You don't "have to", you choose to. They don't need to be taught at
all actually, but they will learn just fine. Reminders are one thing,
being prodded and coerced is entirely different.

I choose a different relationship with my children. If we are to trust
children, then seeing them as capable human beings is a good place to
start.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Deb Lewis

> Drives me nuts.

My mother says insulting things about men and has as long as I can
remember. My sister, who is eight years older than I am, is very
like our mom. What ought to be normal everyday conversation with
either of them is frequently offensive and disturbing. (My mother has
Alzheimer's Disease and so is disturbing on a whole new level these
days. <g>)

And it seems to be common among some of my friends to put men down.
An explanation of why something went wrong or didn't happen is very
often, "He's a man," as if gender makes one incompetent and stupid.

Stupid and incompetent, in my experience, (and man, I've had plenty
of experience!) is not gender or age related.

Deb Lewis

onthelongroad

I'm definitely receiving a new perspective from this thread, but I don't
think I'm ready to be completely hands off. I've always modeled and
encouraged being respectful of other peoples' feelings. However, one of
the reasons this video strikes a chord is due to what the comedian
describes as the 'cosmic Groundhog Day' where moms (and dads) often find
themselves saying the same things over & over.

While I do try to let the kids be more independent, they are still kids
and members of a family that cares for each other. They count on me to
give them reminders or to point out things that are obvious to an adult,
but not to them. For example, my daughter counts on Mommy's wake up
call, just as I count on the morning cup of coffee my husband provides.
These aren't necessary, but the morning doesn't go as well when they are
missing. My 8-year-old son doesn't always remember to brush his teeth,
and doesn't notice any difference in how his mouth feels. I notice his
bad breath when we work together. Of course, I kindly remind him to
brush his teeth. Still, in route to the upstairs bathroom, he forgets
why he went upstairs. So, again I remind him to please brush his teeth.
Sometimes, this happens several times. I suppose I could give up on
working with him and wait a few days until his grungy mouth bothers him
as well. I'm not too fond of that solution.

In the past, I've tried to persuade the children to do what is necessary
because it is important to them personally or to our family. In light
of this discussion, I will think about whether my requests or reminders
can be perceived as authoritarian orders.

Thanks for the food for thought! Sandra, LivingByLearning
<http://onlivingbylearning.blogspot.com/>

--- In [email protected], hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>
wrote:
>
> Many times it is about HOW you communicate.
>
> Communicating with kids is one things, giving orders is another.
>
> Sometimes just saying nothing, and waiting for them to figure out that
> whatever it is is important for them to do. When it is important to
> THEM, they will do it.
>
> If it is something you feel is important to YOU and you must say
> something about it, then you can say it in a respectful, giving
> information kind of way.
>
> When my kids have arranged a morning activity(their choice)- I knock
on
> their doors and ask- "do you want to get up to go to such and such?
They
> say yes and get up, because they want to. If they don't want to they
can
> stay in bed. If my daughter doesn't want to get up to go to something
my
> son has arranged, then I ask her what she would like to do - go to the
> craft store or out to breakfast, for example, then she wants to get
up, too.
>
> I will inform them that it is colder today than it has been, and if
they
> don't want to wear a coat, I'll throw one in the car for them.
>
> My kids brush their teeth because their mouths feel better when they
do.
>
> They eat the food on their plate usually because they chose what to
put
> on it. If not, then someone else will eat it, or we can put it away
for
> later.
>
> When my kids are treating each other poorly- it is because of how they
> are feeling, so I make sure they are each safe and attempt to validate
> their feelings and I might talk about how I feel when I see them
> treating each other that way.
>
> You may not "get" your kids to do the things you want them to do, but
> they will learn to care for themselves and be respectful if you are
> respectful and care for them and yourself and give them needed real
> information.
>
> Heather
>
>
>
>
> onthelongroad wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm really surprised to find that there are moms who never have to
teach
> > and remind their kids to do any of these things. I would love to
learn
> > how to get the kids to do these things without my coaxing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan

-=- I'm definitely receiving a new perspective from this thread, but I
don't think I'm ready to be completely hands off. -=-

Hi Sandra! I don't think anyone here is saying "hands off". When rules
and arbitrary limits and authoritarian demands are removed and we
choose to take children seriously we are, in fact, committing
ourselves to be *more* aware and engaged than traditional parenting
models call for. Unschooling and respectful parenting is so much more
*hands on* than conventional approaches, imo. It's not about giving a
command and expecting immediate compliance or making a set of rules
and then considering my job finished (unless one of the rules is
broken).

It's working *with* our children, being present to their needs,
emotions, experiences, and curiosities. Modeling, guidance,
suggestions, and feedback are all used by families here - it's just
done respectfully and gently. Parents *partner* with their children.
They collaborate, brainstorm, and come up with creative solutions to
get needs met.

-=- Of course, I kindly remind him to brush his teeth. Still, in
route to the upstairs bathroom, he forgets why he went upstairs. So,
again I remind him to please brush his teeth. Sometimes, this happens
several times. I suppose I could give up on working with him and wait
a few days until his grungy mouth bothers him as well. I'm not too
fond of that solution. -=-

Ah, yes! My son frequently forgets where he was headed / what he was
going to do and it happens with teeth brushing, too. There is much
less stress if we go to do it together. I give him a piggyback ride to
the bathroom, sometimes he brushes his teeth and sometimes he wants me
to do it. I don't mind helping him brush at all, I think it helps him
figure out the sensations and movements of what a good teeth brushing
feels like. We talk about each part of his mouth and he asks
questions, etc. Since he's fiercely independent in many ways, it's a
treat for me to be able to do something *for* him. We pause to
chit-chat and giggle. Sometimes we'll brush our teeth together or
he'll want to brush mine for me.

If told him to go do it he'd make it halfway down the hallway and
start playing. I'd get frustrated, remind him again, direct him toward
the bathroom, spot him in the living room a few moments later and
discover he still hadn't brushed his teeth. I'd send him down the
hallway again with my patience rapidly decreasing, and so on until
eventually I was close to yelling and all but dragging him into the
bathroom or on the verge of making threats like "no bedtime story"
etc.

There is a principal behind the act of teeth brushing - taking care of
ourselves so we stay healthy. Both ways are trying to meet this goal.
One way tries to figure out how to make it happen in the most joyful,
non-coercive way. There are no commands, rules or punishments
involved. It does, however, require me to be *present* and actively
engaged with him to accomplish the brushing of teeth.

The other way is the opposite. It starts with me thinking I can issue
a command and have it obeyed and that should be the extent of my
involvement. Every time he needs redirecting my frustration level
grows because I'm not suppose to have to intervene - I said "do it"
and that should have been it. I choose to turn it into a battle of
wills and to take his inability to complete the task on my timetable
as a sign of disrespect.

Which way is respectful towards the child and is more pleasant for
both of us? Which way is ultimately more hands-on? Which way honors
the relationship?

~ Susan

trektheory

--- In [email protected], Susan <SusanYvonne@...> wrote:

>
> Ah, yes! My son frequently forgets where he was headed / what he was
> going to do and it happens with teeth brushing, too.


This brought back a memory! When ds was younger (elementary school
aged, but not sure exactly what age), he was a major dawdler, serious
absent-minded professor syndrome (he still has some of that, but not
nearly as much, I think), and I once asked him to go get some socks on
in preparation for heading out somewhere. (I had factored in my usual
dawdle time.) 20 minutes later, I went to see what was taking him so
long. There he was, sitting on the floor in his pj's, playing. He
said he had one sock on, one off, couldn't remember what he was there
for, and figured he must have been getting ready for bed.... I still
smile when I think of that!

BTW, I just played the video with him here, and asked him if that is
what he hears from me - nope. But he still thought it was funny.

Linda

onthelongroad

Whew! You're right. This approach is the complete opposite of
"hands-off." My first impression of your response was that it must be
incredibly time consuming to have to participate in every one of my
son's activities (assuming that teeth-brushing should by an independent
8-year-old activity.) Then, I realized that much time & (potentially
negative) energy goes into asking & following up on whether my son
brushes his teeth.

BTW- I just asked my son if I could help him brush his teeth. He
laughed & said "No, thank you" but it's ok if I watch. Also, both kids
have laughed through multiple viewing of the mom video. Woohoo! I
just asked my son why he thinks the video is funny. His response,
"because she says things you never say." Maybe I just feel like I'm
saying these things all the time.

Susan & Other Mom Video Posters: Can I post your response on my blog?
I've learned a lot from what you and the other participants in this
thread have said. Thank you, Sandra

LivingByLearning at http://onlivingbylearning.blogspot.com
<http://onlivingbylearning.blogspot.com>





;--- In [email protected], Susan <SusanYvonne@...>
wrote:
>
> -=- I'm definitely receiving a new perspective from this thread, but I
> don't think I'm ready to be completely hands off. -=-
>
> Hi Sandra! I don't think anyone here is saying "hands off". When rules
> and arbitrary limits and authoritarian demands are removed and we
> choose to take children seriously we are, in fact, committing
> ourselves to be *more* aware and engaged than traditional parenting
> models call for. Unschooling and respectful parenting is so much more
> *hands on* than conventional approaches, imo. It's not about giving a
> command and expecting immediate compliance or making a set of rules
> and then considering my job finished (unless one of the rules is
> broken).
>
> It's working *with* our children, being present to their needs,
> emotions, experiences, and curiosities. Modeling, guidance,
> suggestions, and feedback are all used by families here - it's just
> done respectfully and gently. Parents *partner* with their children.
> They collaborate, brainstorm, and come up with creative solutions to
> get needs met.
>
> -=- Of course, I kindly remind him to brush his teeth. Still, in
> route to the upstairs bathroom, he forgets why he went upstairs. So,
> again I remind him to please brush his teeth. Sometimes, this happens
> several times. I suppose I could give up on working with him and wait
> a few days until his grungy mouth bothers him as well. I'm not too
> fond of that solution. -=-
>
> Ah, yes! My son frequently forgets where he was headed / what he was
> going to do and it happens with teeth brushing, too. There is much
> less stress if we go to do it together. I give him a piggyback ride to
> the bathroom, sometimes he brushes his teeth and sometimes he wants me
> to do it. I don't mind helping him brush at all, I think it helps him
> figure out the sensations and movements of what a good teeth brushing
> feels like. We talk about each part of his mouth and he asks
> questions, etc. Since he's fiercely independent in many ways, it's a
> treat for me to be able to do something *for* him. We pause to
> chit-chat and giggle. Sometimes we'll brush our teeth together or
> he'll want to brush mine for me.
>
> If told him to go do it he'd make it halfway down the hallway and
> start playing. I'd get frustrated, remind him again, direct him toward
> the bathroom, spot him in the living room a few moments later and
> discover he still hadn't brushed his teeth. I'd send him down the
> hallway again with my patience rapidly decreasing, and so on until
> eventually I was close to yelling and all but dragging him into the
> bathroom or on the verge of making threats like "no bedtime story"
> etc.
>
> There is a principal behind the act of teeth brushing - taking care of
> ourselves so we stay healthy. Both ways are trying to meet this goal.
> One way tries to figure out how to make it happen in the most joyful,
> non-coercive way. There are no commands, rules or punishments
> involved. It does, however, require me to be *present* and actively
> engaged with him to accomplish the brushing of teeth.
>
> The other way is the opposite. It starts with me thinking I can issue
> a command and have it obeyed and that should be the extent of my
> involvement. Every time he needs redirecting my frustration level
> grows because I'm not suppose to have to intervene - I said "do it"
> and that should have been it. I choose to turn it into a battle of
> wills and to take his inability to complete the task on my timetable
> as a sign of disrespect.
>
> Which way is respectful towards the child and is more pleasant for
> both of us? Which way is ultimately more hands-on? Which way honors
> the relationship?
>
> ~ Susan
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "onthelongroad"
<onthelongroad@...> wrote:
> I'm definitely receiving a new perspective from this thread, but I
don't
> think I'm ready to be completely hands off.

Good grief I hope not! Kids need help and input and information and
support and care and feedback - they just don't need to be pushed
around, bullied, shamed, coerced or berated.

> one of
> the reasons this video strikes a chord is due to what the comedian
> describes as the 'cosmic Groundhog Day' where moms (and dads)
often find
> themselves saying the same things over & over.

Uh huh, that's called "not connecting" ;) We get attatched to an
idea of what's going on with our kids and don't see what's *really*
going on. More connection and communication is what's needed - real
communication, not just parents running our mouths off bc we're too
caught up in our own stuff to look any further. I use repetition as
a sort of "red flag" in my mind - if I hear myself saying the same
darn thing more than a couple times Woah-up there, Momma! Time to
stop whatever I think I'm doing and pay attention to the real kin in
front of me.

> While I do try to let the kids be more independent, they are still
kids
> and members of a family that cares for each other.

Here's a little bit of unschooling jargon for ya: "autonomy" is a
different thing that independence. From an unschooling standpoint,
its the ability to get needs and desires met. For very young
children/babies, we facilitate autonomy mainly by meeting their
needs directly - nursing, diaper changing, picking them up, holding
them, swinging.... all that stuff.

As kids get older they become more able to get their needs
met "independently" but not all of them all the time - and they
don't want to *have* to do it by themselves all the time. So there's
a loooooooooong transitional period where supporting a kid's
autonomy is about making space for that kid to do things
independently, while still being available to help - even with
things that child *can do already*.

That's something that can continue right on up to adulthood - think
about it, how often do you ask another adult for help with something
you are perfectly capable of doing?

> For example, my daughter counts on Mommy's wake up
> call, just as I count on the morning cup of coffee my husband
>provides.

Right, exactly. Its not about pushing independence at all costs
(eegads!).

> My 8-year-old son doesn't always remember to brush his teeth,
> and doesn't notice any difference in how his mouth feels. I
notice his
> bad breath when we work together. Of course, I kindly remind him
to
> brush his teeth.

One alternative would be to talk about his breath without going
straight to the solution - I forget that myself and tend to go
straight to solutions. After all, my solutions are fabulous! Why
wouldn't anyone just want me to tell them what to.... oh, oops.

Part of supporting autonomy is giving our kids the space to think of
some of those fabulous solutions on their own - the other part is
then being willing to help them problem-solve if those "solutions"
aren't exactly what they hoped. To use a montessori truism: "kids
learn to make decisions by making decisions" and that includes less
than sucessful decisions, so they can experience the whole process
*with our support* backing them up, and helping them figure out
the "what now"? parts.

> Of course, I kindly remind him to
> brush his teeth. Still, in route to the upstairs bathroom, he
forgets
> why he went upstairs. So, again I remind him to please brush his
teeth.
> Sometimes, this happens several times.

Try starting the conversation in a different place - hey, guy, your
breath is pretty stinky in the morning, but toothbrushing seems to
be a hassle for you... can we find a better solution? If he's not
used to this kind of problem solving (if mom jumps to solutions, why
should he be?) he might need some prompting. Can you set up the
toothbrushing somewhere different? Can y'all look into mouth rinses
for first thing in the morning? Gum? A tongue scraper? Maybe y'all
could look into some of the causes of bad-breath together and find
yet more possibilities - like a change of night-time snacks, or more
humidity in the bedroom or a nasal rinse? There are dozens of
possible solutions to morning breath and creating a healthier mouth
environment.

>I suppose I could give up on
> working with him

Sometimes a break *is* a valuble solution to explore. Its good
to "red flag" situations where you seem to come up with only two
options, though. That's often a good sign that you've gotten stuck
in your thinking - and a good opportunity to go to your kids and
say "hey, I can't figure this one out, lets put our heads together".
And if that doesn't work, well, that's one of the things these
boards are great for - seeing a bunch of different perspectives and
possibilities.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "onthelongroad"
<onthelongroad@...> wrote:
> Whew! You're right. This approach is the complete opposite of
> "hands-off." My first impression of your response was that it
must be
> incredibly time consuming to have to participate in every one of my
> son's activities (assuming that teeth-brushing should by an
independent
> 8-year-old activity.) Then, I realized that much time &
(potentially
> negative) energy goes into asking & following up on whether my son
> brushes his teeth.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

It can be time consuming to help kids figure out this life thing
(its complicated) - but its not really any more time consuming in
the long run than all the pushing and prodding and follow-up and
whatnot. And its soooooo much less stressful, once you get the hang
of it (yes, there is a learning curve!). It pays for itself in
happiness.

I would far far far rather bring Mo several plates of bite-sized
munchies throughout the day (just as an example) *and* clean up the
occasional spills from her getting her own snacks than have the kind
of hassle I see my gf go through with her dd - "its time to eat, put
that away so we can eat, do it now, eat all of it, three more bites,
that was half a bite so still three more, no I didn't bring a snack,
why didn't you eat more at lunch?" Yikes.

And yet I still get the company of my kid at dinner - even if she's
not hungry she wants to sit with us and be friendly. Why wouldn't
she? We haven't made eating together a chore to be slogged through
every day so its something to look forward to.

Okay, I'm starting to sound like an advertising slogan, so I'll
stop ;)

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)