Deb Gibson

My daughter also requires loads of movement (sensory input). This was one other thing I argued with the public school over, and had a team of experts also telling them. She loves to just jump and "dance" (more jumping but to music<G>). Maybe the screaming is also under the sensory input umbrella, too, now that I think of it<G>.

BTW, for those noticing my posts, the awful behavior of earlier today was repeated this evening, but instead of dumping things all over the floor, she dumped them in the garbage....a nearly full large package of lunchmeat, her DHA capsules that survived the first mess, some more hand lotions, shower gels, and a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

I do not know what the heck went off in her today! But I am completely wrung out from today! From clean ups to emotional tolls (fighting the urge to "lose it"<G>).[in case someone is wondering why I was so upset by this, aside from how very 'inappropriate' it was, we are too poor to just throw food and toiletries in the trash...she 'threw out' perhaps $50 worth of food and toiletries, at least, plus her DHA (sorely needed for a bad skin problem she was born with), anyways, we really are that poor..I should forgo the internet, if not for my website to hawk my wares and online MBA classes--so I maybe can get some work using the net to help our income].

How can I unschool her when she'll do something like this completely out of the blue?I really need help.<sobbing>

Blessings!!!
Brina Minka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

No behavior is "out of the blue". There is always causation, even if
we aren't seeing it. The trick is to understand them enough to see
it, and help. To be honest, everything you've posted about your
daughter sounds like boredom. When we see this in Breanna, it means
that she's reached the end of a plateau, and she needs a lot of help
getting into her new stage because she's ritualized the old one.

There are a ton of things I could offer, but they work in my house.
They won't necessarily work in yours. You need to drop everything
else, housework, cooking, personal time and just BE with her. She
shouldn't have been able to throw away that much food without you
being there and redirecting, providing another way for her to feel
fulfilled. As she gets better, then you can start again with the time
to do other things. But honestly, that's the only thing that's going
to help you now. That's how unschooling will look in your house for a
while. And for an alternative viewpoint. $50 isn't that much. Kids
like ours are usually in forty hours of therapy a week, averaging out
to $160 an hour. We did that for two years. You've actually saved
money by this. Okay, that's a stretch, but honestly, if she was
directed, helped, in achieving her needs, you could have recycled
those lotions and gels. Get her a big mixing bowl and a gallon of
lotion from the dollar store. Let her 'waste' that all she wants.
Then put it back in.

Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 9, 2007, at 10:17 PM, Deb Gibson wrote:

> My daughter also requires loads of movement (sensory input). This
> was one other thing I argued with the public school over, and had a
> team of experts also telling them. She loves to just jump and
> "dance" (more jumping but to music<G>). Maybe the screaming is also
> under the sensory input umbrella, too, now that I think of it<G>.
>
> BTW, for those noticing my posts, the awful behavior of earlier
> today was repeated this evening, but instead of dumping things all
> over the floor, she dumped them in the garbage....a nearly full
> large package of lunchmeat, her DHA capsules that survived the
> first mess, some more hand lotions, shower gels, and a bottle of
> rubbing alcohol.
>
> I do not know what the heck went off in her today! But I am
> completely wrung out from today! From clean ups to emotional tolls
> (fighting the urge to "lose it"<G>).[in case someone is wondering
> why I was so upset by this, aside from how very 'inappropriate' it
> was, we are too poor to just throw food and toiletries in the
> trash...she 'threw out' perhaps $50 worth of food and toiletries,
> at least, plus her DHA (sorely needed for a bad skin problem she
> was born with), anyways, we really are that poor..I should forgo
> the internet, if not for my website to hawk my wares and online MBA
> classes--so I maybe can get some work using the net to help our
> income].
>
> How can I unschool her when she'll do something like this
> completely out of the blue?I really need help.<sobbing>
>
> Blessings!!!
> Brina Minka
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

Well I doubt it's "out of the blue" and here I may part ways with others on
this board. Depending upon who you ask, behavior is communication, stimulus
response or both. I believe it's both. Was she having a hard day? Did she
need to have more of your attention? (For some people, negative attention
is better than no attention.) How verbal is she? Where on the autism
spectrum is she anyway?

You don't say where you were when these things were taking place. Since I
train dogs for a living I'll add this little bit of advice. A lot of my
clients complain to me that the dog eats off the counters, or pees in the
house, or chews the furniture. I tell them to keep a rolled up newspaper
around to hit *themselves* over the head when the dog does something wrong.
Because the OWNER is the one that left the dog alone and unsupervised. You
can leave an old dog who has no such issues alone, but if you know your dog
is a counter-surfer and you leave it alone to take a shower and come back to
find all the cupcakes you left on the counter gone, how can you blame the
dog? It's your fault....you knew this is the dog's behavior pattern and you
set him up to do this. It's not fair to blame the dog. Although it is
frustrating.

So back to this...what was your daughter trying to tell you with her
behavior? Was it "what happens when I do this?" Was it "what kind of drama
reward will I get from mom?" Was it "I'm bored and need stimulation and
don't know how to get it any other way?" Were this my child and I needed to
get some stuff done, like an on-line class, I think I'd get a hold of one of
those small indoor trampolines and put it in the room with me, put on some
music and let her bounce. I would be there to be with her, but also able to
do what I need to get done. Or she's 14, put her in a bathing suit and put
her in the bathtub with a big amount of cheap lotion and let her do
whatever. Or give her some shower gel and a bath poof and let her "paint"
the walls. It can be washed off later. But I don't think she can be left
alone, unsupervised. This is the crux of your problem.

Very often, problem solving requires us to let go of what we think the
motivations of others are and really look at the situation. This can be
very hard when you are stressed and stretched thin. I think you need to
find some respite care so you can get some time to recharge and then you can
be more fully available to her. But also, get that book I posted about
earlier in this thread. Additionally maybe you could provide some serious
body movement, like a long walk with her in the mornings so that she gets
some movement and burns off some of the energy. If she's in a constant
state of "cabin fever" that's going to make her frustrated.

I wish you luck but I do think there is an answer out there, you are just
going to have to look for it in different places than you have so far.
Karen


On 10/9/07, Deb Gibson <dlgibson@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter also requires loads of movement (sensory input). This was
> one other thing I argued with the public school over, and had a team of
> experts also telling them. She loves to just jump and "dance" (more jumping
> but to music<G>). Maybe the screaming is also under the sensory input
> umbrella, too, now that I think of it<G>.
>
> BTW, for those noticing my posts, the awful behavior of earlier today was
> repeated this evening, but instead of dumping things all over the floor, she
> dumped them in the garbage....a nearly full large package of lunchmeat, her
> DHA capsules that survived the first mess, some more hand lotions, shower
> gels, and a bottle of rubbing alcohol.
>
> I do not know what the heck went off in her today! But I am completely
> wrung out from today! From clean ups to emotional tolls (fighting the urge
> to "lose it"<G>).[in case someone is wondering why I was so upset by this,
> aside from how very 'inappropriate' it was, we are too poor to just throw
> food and toiletries in the trash...she 'threw out' perhaps $50 worth of food
> and toiletries, at least, plus her DHA (sorely needed for a bad skin problem
> she was born with), anyways, we really are that poor..I should forgo the
> internet, if not for my website to hawk my wares and online MBA classes--so
> I maybe can get some work using the net to help our income].
>
> How can I unschool her when she'll do something like this completely out
> of the blue?I really need help.<sobbing>
>
> Blessings!!!
> Brina Minka
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
"Family isn't about whose blood you have. It's about who you care about."

LOI 1/26/07
PA 3/22/07
DTC 8/10/07
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors.

~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~ ~*~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Melissa <autismhelp@...>
wrote:
>You need to drop everything
> else, housework, cooking, personal time and just BE with her.

This is just so important I wanted to see it repeated. Think of this
deschooling time as being similar to bringing a new baby home in terms
of how much time and care and energy need to be directed at your kid.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>I think I'd get a hold of one of
> those small indoor trampolines and put it in the room with me, put
on some
> music and let her bounce. I would be there to be with her, but
also able to
> do what I need to get done. Or she's 14, put her in a bathing
suit and put
> her in the bathtub with a big amount of cheap lotion and let her do
> whatever. Or give her some shower gel and a bath poof and let
her "paint"
> the walls.

Oh, this is GREAT (the whole post but this was my favorite part)!
That was my first thought, at the description of dumping stuff in
the trash, that maybe what dd really wanted was to *touch* it - get
it all over herself even, and that dumping stuff in the trash was
the only thing that was even close to "acceptible". Even though it
wasn't, exactly.

I wonder how this girl would feel about massage? Or even just a
facial if that's too much to start with. I'm trying to think of some
things that are highly tactile but also interactive, so mom and kid
can work on their relationship, too. If she's into either the
massage or facial idea there are lots and lots of variations to play
with. Corn starch is really "fluid" feeling, like oil, for instance,
without being so messy. Or if you wanted to push the messy envelope
you could try cremes or gels - even weird things like yogurt. You
could just do hands or feet, too, if a whole body massage is too
intimate/intense right off the bat.

Here's another sensory thing y'all might try together - ever heard
of a taffy pull? You get to butter your hands and arms and then
wrestle with a big wad of candy - and then you get to eat it! What
could be better? Making braided breads can be fun in this way, too,
without being quite as intense as a taffy-pull.

Woops, lost track of time!

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Ren Allen

~~I tell them to keep a rolled up newspaper
around to hit *themselves* over the head when the dog does something
wrong.~~

That is hilarious!

I have found that most of the things children are blamed for are all
about the parent's poor skills or lack of connectedness. I'm going to
envision myself popping my head with a newspaper now, when I screw up.
Not because I'll be trying, but I think that visual is going to stick
with me! Too funny.

A child with autism, depending on the severity, probably should not be
left alone! Jalen would be considered "on the spectrum" though I have
no idea exactly where or what the exact diagnoses would be since we've
never had him diagnosed. Very mild in his case. Though I can relate to
the feelings of exasperation and complete incompetency.

I've sat on the floor crying and thinking "I am NOT the best parent
for this child" because his issues just put me over the edge sometimes.

Things have gotten SO much better in the last six months. Most of our
close friends have noticed a huge change. So I wonder if some of the
"autism" symptoms seem to disappear in time, in a supportive
environment where the child is allowed to develop in their own time. I
think he would have been diagnosed, but maybe they'd have been wrong
because he is just developing slower in some areas.

For a child with true autism, or more severe autism, I really don't
see how you could leave them alone. I know that must be exhausting,
but that IS the reality of where that child is at the moment. I think
gathering more tools and making the home more of an environment the
child needs is much better than trying to control constantly.

What did the OP mean by "self-directed" anyway? Were you leaving her
to her own devices in spite of the fact that she might need constant
supervision? That isn't "self-directed", that is avoidance.

A child like her might need a LOT of one-on-one and guidance. Rather
than leaving her to figure it out for herself, be PRESENT and follow
her lead as to what sound interesting. Try to find a positive outlet
for whatever need she has at the moment, even if it seems
"destructive". Destruction is part of creativity too.

Introduce fun ideas and trust her to pick and choose. Don't leave her
on her own though, if she can't handle that at this point.

You have my sympathy. It's really hard for me to maintain my calm with
Jalen at times and he is so mild compared to many children I read
about here and at other lists. Hang in there!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Julie

Don't know if this has ever been gone over, but my son is and always has
been a disassembler. That is, he loves to take things apart. When he was
smaller, it was the door handles in the house. Not a major problem
unless you can't get into a room because the handle falls off in your
hand. He progresses through the years to taking apart a printer, many of
his toys, his computer, and I have always tried to give him some older
things that don't work to take apart and satisfy his curiosity. I just
asked him to please ask if it is ok first before he disassembles
something. Mainly because I found his electric alarm clock taken apart,
yet still plugged in! It was also a bit unnerving when he took apart his
computer, when it was something simple that I could have fixed, but not
after he took it apart.

I build my own computers and have tons of parts laying around, and full
computer CPUs that I ave given him in the past, but I was wondering if
anyone knew what kind of things I SHOULDN'T let him take apart. I know
some electronic stuff has capacitors that can hold an electric charge
for years. He really wants to take apart a CRT monitor, but I am not
sure if this would be safe, or if I would be setting him up for
electrocution. Anyone know if they are similar to TVs in this respect? I
want to give him the opportunity to satisfy this need of his. I know it
is important to him, but need to make sure that he does it safely.

My brother was the same way when he was growing up. Nothing in my
mother's house was safe from being taken apart, but in the end he turned
out to be the one person everyone went to to fix their things! He was
fascinated by how things worked, and although it took many years before
he learned how to put things back together again, he did learn a lot in
the process. I know Caleb is the same way, and want to let him explore,
but in a safe way.

Cheers,
Julie

Melissa

Dh says that it is extremely dangerous. Instead of a small capacitor
like a TV, the tube in a giant capacitor that can hold up to 100,000
volts. He says that if you want to take it apart and look, don't get
within six inches of any metal components because it will arc to him.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 10, 2007, at 7:33 PM, Julie wrote:

> Don't know if this has ever been gone over, but my son is and
> always has
> been a disassembler. That is, he loves to take things apart. When
> he was
> smaller, it was the door handles in the house. Not a major problem
> unless you can't get into a room because the handle falls off in your
> hand. He progresses through the years to taking apart a printer,
> many of
> his toys, his computer, and I have always tried to give him some older
> things that don't work to take apart and satisfy his curiosity. I just
> asked him to please ask if it is ok first before he disassembles
> something. Mainly because I found his electric alarm clock taken
> apart,
> yet still plugged in! It was also a bit unnerving when he took
> apart his
> computer, when it was something simple that I could have fixed, but
> not
> after he took it apart.
>
> I build my own computers and have tons of parts laying around, and
> full
> computer CPUs that I ave given him in the past, but I was wondering if
> anyone knew what kind of things I SHOULDN'T let him take apart. I know
> some electronic stuff has capacitors that can hold an electric charge
> for years. He really wants to take apart a CRT monitor, but I am not
> sure if this would be safe, or if I would be setting him up for
> electrocution. Anyone know if they are similar to TVs in this
> respect? I
> want to give him the opportunity to satisfy this need of his. I
> know it
> is important to him, but need to make sure that he does it safely.
>
> My brother was the same way when he was growing up. Nothing in my
> mother's house was safe from being taken apart, but in the end he
> turned
> out to be the one person everyone went to to fix their things! He was
> fascinated by how things worked, and although it took many years
> before
> he learned how to put things back together again, he did learn a
> lot in
> the process. I know Caleb is the same way, and want to let him
> explore,
> but in a safe way.
>
> Cheers,
> Julie
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tamara Muccia

There can also me toxic chemical issues such as mercury

Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote: Dh says that it is extremely dangerous. Instead of a small capacitor
like a TV, the tube in a giant capacitor that can hold up to 100,000
volts. He says that if you want to take it apart and look, don't get
within six inches of any metal components because it will arc to him.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma

On Oct 10, 2007, at 7:33 PM, Julie wrote:

> Don't know if this has ever been gone over, but my son is and
> always has
> been a disassembler. That is, he loves to take things apart. When
> he was
> smaller, it was the door handles in the house. Not a major problem
> unless you can't get into a room because the handle falls off in your
> hand. He progresses through the years to taking apart a printer,
> many of
> his toys, his computer, and I have always tried to give him some older
> things that don't work to take apart and satisfy his curiosity. I just
> asked him to please ask if it is ok first before he disassembles
> something. Mainly because I found his electric alarm clock taken
> apart,
> yet still plugged in! It was also a bit unnerving when he took
> apart his
> computer, when it was something simple that I could have fixed, but
> not
> after he took it apart.
>
> I build my own computers and have tons of parts laying around, and
> full
> computer CPUs that I ave given him in the past, but I was wondering if
> anyone knew what kind of things I SHOULDN'T let him take apart. I know
> some electronic stuff has capacitors that can hold an electric charge
> for years. He really wants to take apart a CRT monitor, but I am not
> sure if this would be safe, or if I would be setting him up for
> electrocution. Anyone know if they are similar to TVs in this
> respect? I
> want to give him the opportunity to satisfy this need of his. I
> know it
> is important to him, but need to make sure that he does it safely.
>
> My brother was the same way when he was growing up. Nothing in my
> mother's house was safe from being taken apart, but in the end he
> turned
> out to be the one person everyone went to to fix their things! He was
> fascinated by how things worked, and although it took many years
> before
> he learned how to put things back together again, he did learn a
> lot in
> the process. I know Caleb is the same way, and want to let him
> explore,
> but in a safe way.
>
> Cheers,
> Julie
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie

That's what I needed to know! We are just going to have to find some
other things he can take apart that are safer to handle. I told him I
needed to find out if it was safe FIRST before doing anything with one.
The time he took apart his alarm clock and I found it was PLUGGED IN,
kind of freaked me out a bit. I don't mind him taking apart things that
won't hurt or possibly kill him, and knew that monitors could be very
dangerous.

Please thank your DH for me!!

Cheers,
Julie


> Dh says that it is extremely dangerous. Instead of a small capacitor
> like a TV, the tube in a giant capacitor that can hold up to 100,000
> volts. He says that if you want to take it apart and look, don't get
> within six inches of any metal components because it will arc to him.
> Melissa

Melissa

My brother was the same way, he took everything apart from the time
he was very small. My mom just started picking up stuff from the
curbside trash that people would throw away, as well as yardsales,
and he had an entire closet of stuff to take apart when he felt like it.
It was wonderful for him, because he always struggled in school, the
way they taught didn't mesh with the way his brain worked. But this
gave him practical experience and he soared through classes in high
school.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 11, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Julie wrote:

> That's what I needed to know! We are just going to have to find some
> other things he can take apart that are safer to handle. I told him I
> needed to find out if it was safe FIRST before doing anything with
> one.
> The time he took apart his alarm clock and I found it was PLUGGED IN,
> kind of freaked me out a bit. I don't mind him taking apart things
> that
> won't hurt or possibly kill him, and knew that monitors could be very
> dangerous.
>
> Please thank your DH for me!!
>
> Cheers,
> Julie
>
> > Dh says that it is extremely dangerous. Instead of a small capacitor
> > like a TV, the tube in a giant capacitor that can hold up to 100,000
> > volts. He says that if you want to take it apart and look, don't get
> > within six inches of any metal components because it will arc to
> him.
> > Melissa
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nicole Willoughby

My dh says that you can discharge amonitor by using a screwdriver with an insulated handle and a wire running from the metal on the screwdriver to the ground or a screw on an electrical socket and using the screwdriver to pop the center cap thingy off. ( was that scientific or what? )

He also says DONT TRY THIS AT HOME!!! and suggests asking a computer repair shop that works on monitors or possibly a tv repair shop if they can discharge it for you.


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
>> I wonder how this girl would feel about massage? Or even just a
> facial if that's too much to start with. I'm trying to think of
some
> things that are highly tactile but also interactive

Something I thought of later, and it might work better for a kid who
likes the sensation but not so much human touch, is experimenting
with massage tools: back scratchers, those beaded seat-cover
thingies people put in their cars (imagine sliding back and forth on
one on the floor or bed), massage rollers, even rolling balls and
other roundish objects over various body parts. For that matter,
exercise balls (any kind of ball, really) come in a bunch of
different sizes and can be used as a sort of self-massage. It feels
different to lie face up vs down vs on one's side on each different
size. A cheaper variation on all this would be lengths of pvc pipe
in different diameters, some wrapped in cloth, some "hard".

Foam yoga blocks are handy in this way, too - not so much rolling,
but you can balance and stretch different body parts across them in
different ways. Lots of stimulation. A metal folding chair, too, has
lots of options for stretching and rubbing the body, and can be
padded with blankets or left "hard" depending on the body in
question.

Electric massagers are also really interesting and can often be
found at yardsales and flea markets. Lots of weird attatchments,
too, that give a variety of different sensations. The plug-in types
have more oomph, but may not be as "safe" for some kids.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)