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In a message dated 10/2/2007 1:50:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
luvbullbreeds@... writes:

Thank you Karen! That really is all I'm trying to get. It's radically
different from how life looks to me at least from a wide angle view.
Narrowing the view might help for now. *I* take one issue at a time and work
on developing it with the kids. It helps me to do that, to move a it slowly
- first in thought, then in action. Its been good!

Here
my kids (11 and 9) do help decide what's for dinner. They pick out their
own clothes (within reason) and they collaborated with us on the new
furniture we bought.
May I ask you, what "in reason" means for you? It means different things to
different people, so I'd like to understand your ideas on that.

BUT we made the final decision.
One day, they will have their own furniture to choose, and that's great!
Families lookingat what is important as a group, is what makes sense to me.

What I've been
reading *looks like* kids get the final say no matter what and that is both
different and to my mind irresponsible. And no, not just on this list.
Other places too. I've been doing a pretty hefty amount of reading. One
site mentioned her daughter (age 4) has been eating only ice cream for 6
months because that's all she's wanted! The writer was joyous about this.
That sounds confusing. *I* don't read this stuff that way, and obviously
neither do others here. But taking the developmental aspects into more than just
consideration I DO see. I see people trying to help each family member feel
equally valued and as important as the other. That may appear to be
irresponsible, especially when the parental convention is in place. And that's ok! I
think the biggest issue "we" have here, is that you are, dare I say, still
thinking within convention. That's no crime! But here, we seem to mainly think
as creatively as possible, with parent-child equality being top and foremost.
You may not see it that way. We tend to go for the idea that husbands, older
kids, smaller kids - all have the SAME say in things. Now, when my DH eats
what I call "crap" all day, for weeks, he does hear from me! I worry about his
health, I am concerned, we talk about it. But I don't "ban" it. Even if I
COLD, should I? Should I limit his crappy food intake? Or would it be best for me
to help him out by eating well myself, providing healthy foods at home and
have patience, hoping he comes around to healthier ways of living? Partners do
that latter, while convention tells us otherwise. Ice cream only for 6
months? Not possible here - too many financial constraints first off. The rest is
too personal for me to delve into. Do I agree? Nope. But is it MY child, and
MY life and MY situation? Nope. But I can appreciate the idea behind it -
even if I would chose a different way to mange it with my child. I'm not in that
family's shoes, I haven't walked a mile in them, so I can only guess. And I
think that is one of the main points. You are not in our shoes, we are not in
yours. but what can we ALL learn from these exchanges? Focusing on our
similarities will help. But instead, the differences have been highlighted.
Hopefully, that makes sense, lol!


It's these kinds of things that have me befuddled. If this is what is meant
by the philosophy well, I can't abdicate parenting. That's negligence. If
it's more a matter of treating kids like they have a brain in their heads
and can be a part of life then that's totally different and how I've been
raising mine all along. HOWEVER, I still insist they move their bodies, try
to eat well, and clean their rooms and bathroom. They are a part of the
family, not reigning over it.
I understand, but do not agree with your terminology. I can't "insist" my
kids exercise, though I do have my daughter (15) walk home from school (which
I'd rather her not be, lol, but that's a long story) I close their doors in
their rooms (since then, they have come to hate mess and their rooms look better
than the living room, lol!) I am the sole grocery shopper. I buy the
healthiest food I know of that suits us all, and I do say "no." But I say "no" due
to financial constraints, not just because. We talk, we shop together, they
want something, I read the label, we talk about what it is and I offer
alternatives if it's an expensive or an item I have issues with health-wise. (I have
huge high Fructose Corn Syrup issues and Hydrogenated oils...other than
that, I'm ok, lol). But not all of us are like that here. I tend to think I'm
more conventional (and for the first time in my life EVER is this the case,
lol!) than a few others here. And that's ok. I have lots to learn - and the thing
is, we ALL can learn from one another here. I am enjoying letting go of
convention more and more...especially with my older teens. I now have them
talking to me. Honestly. About their lives, their REAL lives, not just what they
display to most adults. I am so damned lucky and my heart is so full because of
this. The more I let go, the safer they are, but by their own volition, NOT
due to my controlling their choices and behaviors. It's been a long road in
many ways - from my children- actually, from my parents and THIER parents, to
mine, to theirs...Life is becoming more and more joyful. And it's STILL
exasperating and STILL wrought with teen angst, lol...and parental ;) But it's ok.
The process is enjoyable. I get to be equal, not the same, as my kids - from
almost 20 to just turned 2. Equality feels so good.



But I thank you for your honest attempt at an explaination. That was very
kind of you. I hope you get to feeling better soon! =)

Karen
You are VERY welcome. I am a mediator at heart :) I hope that the
conversation continues here. There is much out there that we can all benefit from.
Learning is a Neverending Story, is it not? :) (my son's middle name is Atreyu -
from The Neverending Story :) )

Take care, stay open as possible...
Karen PS








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