Needing a break
Robert Saxon
This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many duplicates. Sorry
if this nails you twice.
Right. So. Here goes.
I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break" from her
kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and in general not
really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with their kids.
There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were other issues
involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this. This is
an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DW feels the
same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine. But
sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my own
father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up his time.
So having that set up...
I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way? If so,
HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keep
following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path. More
information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you already there? What
signs did you see?
2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
if this nails you twice.
Right. So. Here goes.
I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break" from her
kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and in general not
really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with their kids.
There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were other issues
involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this. This is
an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DW feels the
same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine. But
sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my own
father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up his time.
So having that set up...
I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way? If so,
HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keep
following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path. More
information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you already there? What
signs did you see?
2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy Makice
On 9/15/07, Robert Saxon <TheSaxons@...> wrote:
I often wish we could follow the "only one person gets to have a breakdown
at a time" rule, but it just doesn't work that way, does it? The stressful
times hit both of us, here at least.
I just finished reading "stumbling into happiness" and was struck by his
section on childbearing- it has changed the way I look at parenting and
happiness in general- mostly to the point where I am more willing to
question what causes me to feel happy, etc etc.
I am eager to read your responses, but wanted to throw out a quick practical
thing- I enjoy packing up a favorite book and going outside- it's a change
of pace for all of us, and I get to "escape" into a book. Generally, I feel
more refreshed if it isn't a parenting book, but sometimes a good parenting
book can also "refresh" me by giving me some new perspective.
hth, looking forward to others ideas.
--
Amy
www.blogschmog.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Hi Rob- I know you from other lists : )
> Most of the time things are fine. But
> sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
> same time, then life is not good.
>
I often wish we could follow the "only one person gets to have a breakdown
at a time" rule, but it just doesn't work that way, does it? The stressful
times hit both of us, here at least.
I just finished reading "stumbling into happiness" and was struck by his
section on childbearing- it has changed the way I look at parenting and
happiness in general- mostly to the point where I am more willing to
question what causes me to feel happy, etc etc.
I am eager to read your responses, but wanted to throw out a quick practical
thing- I enjoy packing up a favorite book and going outside- it's a change
of pace for all of us, and I get to "escape" into a book. Generally, I feel
more refreshed if it isn't a parenting book, but sometimes a good parenting
book can also "refresh" me by giving me some new perspective.
hth, looking forward to others ideas.
--
Amy
www.blogschmog.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Edwards
I completely understand where you are coming from on this one, Rob. I do have some thoughts on the issue, but they will have to wait until tomorrow because my husband and I took the kids to the apple orchard today and they wore us out ;-). They are doing their thing right now, I am doing mine and I will soon be on my porch with a book...
Kathleen, wife to Roy, tired but happy Mom to Dakota, Connor, Sage, Cheyenne and AZ
Robert Saxon <TheSaxons@...> wrote:
This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many duplicates. Sorry
if this nails you twice.
Right. So. Here goes.
I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break" from her
kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and in general not
really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with their kids.
There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were other issues
involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this. This is
an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DW feels the
same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine. But
sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my own
father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up his time.
So having that set up...
I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way? If so,
HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keep
following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path. More
information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you already there? What
signs did you see?
2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen, wife to Roy, tired but happy Mom to Dakota, Connor, Sage, Cheyenne and AZ
Robert Saxon <TheSaxons@...> wrote:
This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many duplicates. Sorry
if this nails you twice.
Right. So. Here goes.
I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break" from her
kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and in general not
really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with their kids.
There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were other issues
involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this. This is
an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DW feels the
same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine. But
sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my own
father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up his time.
So having that set up...
I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way? If so,
HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keep
following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path. More
information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you already there? What
signs did you see?
2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 15, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Robert Saxon wrote:
It wasn't perfect since I was perfectly capable of filling full days
with writing or reading or other fun things before Kat was born. It's
easier now since she's out of the house on her own more.
While finding time to carve out "me time" is important, I think even
more important is becoming aware of the build up so you can take
small breaks rather than letting yourself get to the breaking point
where being alone for a week seems like the only cure ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?Yeah, as they get older and need less ;-)
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?I get up really early in the morning to do the things I want.
>
It wasn't perfect since I was perfectly capable of filling full days
with writing or reading or other fun things before Kat was born. It's
easier now since she's out of the house on her own more.
While finding time to carve out "me time" is important, I think even
more important is becoming aware of the build up so you can take
small breaks rather than letting yourself get to the breaking point
where being alone for a week seems like the only cure ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
Rob, you have YOUNG children. They are, by nature, much much needier
than older children.
And you have two close in age, with different enough needs, yet
similar enough level of needs, that it is even harder. It isn't a
mountain out of a molehill -- but it is a common concern.
I only have one child, now 15 3/4, so I didn't have it as intense as
you, but yes, there were times when I just needed down time. Heck,
once, when he and I went to visit my folks w/out dh, about 20 minutes
after we were home again, dh said, "I need a break from listening so
much!" (Our ds was a real talker!)
Things that helped me maintain some more sanity (though there are some
who would claim I have never had that!) were: play dates (I got some
adult-talk time while the kids played, and there were other adults to
help if intervention was needed), taking turns watching kids (play
dates w/out parent there, basically -- though I didn't do that often,
and only with those I really trusted), occasionally grandparents (they
lived far, though, so that was rare). Take advantage of times when
the kids are amusing themselves helps, too. And feel free to tell
your kids, "I need a rest right now. If there is an emergency, come
get me, but I'm going to..." (fill in the rest of that sentence as
appropriate.
And take heart - the older they get, the more independent they get!
Then you get to the point where you feel sad at the thought of them
moving on....
BTW, some of the conversations you have with your kids over the years
can be really thought-provoking and interesting. I used to (jokingly)
threaten to hold my ds back a year, so I had an extra year before he
went to college. But as it turns out, he had other ideas, and we are
making this our last year, and he starts college (locally) full-time
next year. He told me, after I joked about holding him back, "Much as
I love you guys, and love living with you, I want to get on with my
life." Sigh, I know, dear, and that's as it should be. Sniff!
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Robert Saxon"
<TheSaxons@...> wrote:
emotionally, and mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during
the week. DW feels the same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the
time things are fine. But sometimes we get really stressed, and when
it happens to both of us at the same time, then life is not good.
NOTE: Some is baggage from my own father, who came across to both me
and bro that we were taking up his time.
than older children.
And you have two close in age, with different enough needs, yet
similar enough level of needs, that it is even harder. It isn't a
mountain out of a molehill -- but it is a common concern.
I only have one child, now 15 3/4, so I didn't have it as intense as
you, but yes, there were times when I just needed down time. Heck,
once, when he and I went to visit my folks w/out dh, about 20 minutes
after we were home again, dh said, "I need a break from listening so
much!" (Our ds was a real talker!)
Things that helped me maintain some more sanity (though there are some
who would claim I have never had that!) were: play dates (I got some
adult-talk time while the kids played, and there were other adults to
help if intervention was needed), taking turns watching kids (play
dates w/out parent there, basically -- though I didn't do that often,
and only with those I really trusted), occasionally grandparents (they
lived far, though, so that was rare). Take advantage of times when
the kids are amusing themselves helps, too. And feel free to tell
your kids, "I need a rest right now. If there is an emergency, come
get me, but I'm going to..." (fill in the rest of that sentence as
appropriate.
And take heart - the older they get, the more independent they get!
Then you get to the point where you feel sad at the thought of them
moving on....
BTW, some of the conversations you have with your kids over the years
can be really thought-provoking and interesting. I used to (jokingly)
threaten to hold my ds back a year, so I had an extra year before he
went to college. But as it turns out, he had other ideas, and we are
making this our last year, and he starts college (locally) full-time
next year. He told me, after I joked about holding him back, "Much as
I love you guys, and love living with you, I want to get on with my
life." Sigh, I know, dear, and that's as it should be. Sniff!
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Robert Saxon"
<TheSaxons@...> wrote:
>from her
> I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break"
> kids.This is an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically,
emotionally, and mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during
the week. DW feels the same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the
time things are fine. But sometimes we get really stressed, and when
it happens to both of us at the same time, then life is not good.
NOTE: Some is baggage from my own father, who came across to both me
and bro that we were taking up his time.
> So having that set up...If so,
>
> I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
>
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?
> HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keepMore
> following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path.
> information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you alreadythere? What
> signs did you see?
>
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
>
> 3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
>
> --Rob Saxon
> DH to Seana for 10 years
> "Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
Wildflower Car
Rob,
Why is it about being around your kids that is stressing you and your wife
out. Is it the noise level, the kids calling on you a lot, can you pin point
if it is certain things?
I know it happens to me and my husband and was harder when they were little.
Wildflower
_________________________________________________________________
A place for moms to take a break!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Why is it about being around your kids that is stressing you and your wife
out. Is it the noise level, the kids calling on you a lot, can you pin point
if it is certain things?
I know it happens to me and my husband and was harder when they were little.
Wildflower
_________________________________________________________________
A place for moms to take a break!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Robert Saxon"
<TheSaxons@...> wrote:
or not to "hear" the kids or to go somewhere alone--
that being said if your mindset is that they kids should go away
while you have "time" it is going to be hard. Right now my 4.5 yr
old and 3 yr old are in the tub at 4:30 in the afternoon- while I
take a few minutes to "myself" to read e-mails- but my husband is
talking about military orders and my teenager came out to say he got
a new pet on wow-
My husband used to say "what about adult time" and I said " there is
not adult time but family time"
I take a few minutes to do what I want inbetween three million other
things they want from me
I stay up later to do what I want because I like sleeping in
If they agree I run to the store by myself
I get the kids all wore out so they fall asleep earlier
I tell myself that in so many years they will not want my attention
so much
I take advantage to when they want to go stay at grandma's
take small breaks, realize they will not always be there, if they
were to die tomorrow would you regret the times you took a break to
be away from them,
it is a mindset and you have to tell yourself that they are small
being that WANT to be around you- my girls have been following me
around (even to the bathroom but sometimes when it stinks they go
away for a while-- lol---- but I get 3 minutes of deep breathing and
peace) for a year and last night was the first time the little one
stayed home with dad.
when you feel like you have had enough- take a break with them and
declare tickle time or chase time-- sometimes they want attention
and then after so many minutes they will paly alone to give you more
time alone doing your thing.
JulieH
<TheSaxons@...> wrote:
>duplicates. Sorry
> This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many
> if this nails you twice.from her
>
> Right. So. Here goes.
>
> I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break"
> kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and ingeneral not
> really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with theirkids.
> There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were otherissues
> involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully getthis. This is
> an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally,and
> mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DWfeels the
> same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things arefine. But
> sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both ofus at the
> same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from myown
> father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking uphis time.
> So having that set up...way? If so,
>
> I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
>
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this
> HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more thanjust "keep
> following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here>path. More
> information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you alreadythere? What
> signs did you see?First it is "normal" to want to have time to get your own stuff done
or not to "hear" the kids or to go somewhere alone--
that being said if your mindset is that they kids should go away
while you have "time" it is going to be hard. Right now my 4.5 yr
old and 3 yr old are in the tub at 4:30 in the afternoon- while I
take a few minutes to "myself" to read e-mails- but my husband is
talking about military orders and my teenager came out to say he got
a new pet on wow-
My husband used to say "what about adult time" and I said " there is
not adult time but family time"
>I take a book and read on the toliet
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
I take a few minutes to do what I want inbetween three million other
things they want from me
I stay up later to do what I want because I like sleeping in
If they agree I run to the store by myself
I get the kids all wore out so they fall asleep earlier
I tell myself that in so many years they will not want my attention
so much
I take advantage to when they want to go stay at grandma's
>yes- no- maybe-
> 3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
take small breaks, realize they will not always be there, if they
were to die tomorrow would you regret the times you took a break to
be away from them,
it is a mindset and you have to tell yourself that they are small
being that WANT to be around you- my girls have been following me
around (even to the bathroom but sometimes when it stinks they go
away for a while-- lol---- but I get 3 minutes of deep breathing and
peace) for a year and last night was the first time the little one
stayed home with dad.
when you feel like you have had enough- take a break with them and
declare tickle time or chase time-- sometimes they want attention
and then after so many minutes they will paly alone to give you more
time alone doing your thing.
JulieH
>
> --Rob Saxon
> DH to Seana for 10 years
> "Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Allison
Try being a single parent to 5 kids ages 9,7,5,3,1!!!! You never get
a break. I don't trust anyone to babysit either so I just have to
deal with it. Sometimes if I'm getting upset or feel like I need a
moment to myself, I will send the kids to their rooms to play or put
a movie on. I just try to seperate myself from them for a bit and
calm down.
--- In [email protected], Kathleen Edwards
<edwardsgang@...> wrote:
wait until tomorrow because my husband and I took the kids to the
apple orchard today and they wore us out ;-). They are doing their
thing right now, I am doing mine and I will soon be on my porch with
a book...
a break. I don't trust anyone to babysit either so I just have to
deal with it. Sometimes if I'm getting upset or feel like I need a
moment to myself, I will send the kids to their rooms to play or put
a movie on. I just try to seperate myself from them for a bit and
calm down.
--- In [email protected], Kathleen Edwards
<edwardsgang@...> wrote:
>Rob. I do have some thoughts on the issue, but they will have to
> I completely understand where you are coming from on this one,
wait until tomorrow because my husband and I took the kids to the
apple orchard today and they wore us out ;-). They are doing their
thing right now, I am doing mine and I will soon be on my porch with
a book...
>Sage, Cheyenne and AZ
>
> Kathleen, wife to Roy, tired but happy Mom to Dakota, Connor,
>duplicates. Sorry
> Robert Saxon <TheSaxons@...> wrote:
> This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many
> if this nails you twice.from her
>
> Right. So. Here goes.
>
> I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break"
> kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and ingeneral not
> really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with theirkids.
> There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were otherissues
> involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this.This is
> an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally,and
> mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DWfeels the
> same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things arefine. But
> sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both ofus at the
> same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my ownhis time.
> father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up
> So having that set up...If so,
>
> I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
>
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?
> HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more thanjust "keep
> following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here>path. More
> information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you alreadythere? What
> signs did you see?
>
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
>
> 3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
>
> --Rob Saxon
> DH to Seana for 10 years
> "Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Deb Lewis
***Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?***
***If so, HOW did you get there?***
Part of it is time. Your kids will get older. Part of it is not
waiting until you feel burned out before getting a break. Part of it
is changing your perspective. But it all gets easier as kids get
older. And there is a little magic trick you can try. Get some
exercise every day if you can. Go for a bike ride, start running,
beat a punching bag...something. I'm not really fit, I'm not a jock,
it doesn't have to be a life changing regimen to be mood changing.
Maybe try some mood altering substance like magnesium or pasta or
light therapy.
*** What do you do to take a break, if you do?***
I get up earlier than my kid. I take long showers. I do things I
enjoy every day. (What do you love to do?) If I'm cranky or moody I
go into a room alone for five minutes and calm myself with breathing
or yoga and positive self talk. Or I go out and bounce on the
trampoline. It is impossible to be cranky while bouncing. <g> I
take a walk almost every night - three or four miles- (usually with
my kid<g>) and I find the dark big and peaceful and calming. (and
full of bears, lately, and sometimes skunks. Apparently I am calmed
by stinky critters.<g>)
Could you be depressed?
Are you feeling stuck or trapped or like you have no choices?
When Dylan was little and David was away a lot I would imagine he was
home with me. It helped me be patient with little Dylan to imagine
there was a witness who held me in some regard. How would you behave
with your children if someone you admired was right there in the room
with you? Even if a little trick like that gets you through one
tough moment, that's a moment of sweetness with your kids that you
can gain strength from in the next tough moment.
Sandra Dodd has reminded people to hug their children and smell their
heads. It can reconnect us with our kids in a primal kind of way
that makes us feel protective of them instead of crabby.
My husband listens to music when he needs to recharge.
Deb Lewis
***If so, HOW did you get there?***
Part of it is time. Your kids will get older. Part of it is not
waiting until you feel burned out before getting a break. Part of it
is changing your perspective. But it all gets easier as kids get
older. And there is a little magic trick you can try. Get some
exercise every day if you can. Go for a bike ride, start running,
beat a punching bag...something. I'm not really fit, I'm not a jock,
it doesn't have to be a life changing regimen to be mood changing.
Maybe try some mood altering substance like magnesium or pasta or
light therapy.
*** What do you do to take a break, if you do?***
I get up earlier than my kid. I take long showers. I do things I
enjoy every day. (What do you love to do?) If I'm cranky or moody I
go into a room alone for five minutes and calm myself with breathing
or yoga and positive self talk. Or I go out and bounce on the
trampoline. It is impossible to be cranky while bouncing. <g> I
take a walk almost every night - three or four miles- (usually with
my kid<g>) and I find the dark big and peaceful and calming. (and
full of bears, lately, and sometimes skunks. Apparently I am calmed
by stinky critters.<g>)
Could you be depressed?
Are you feeling stuck or trapped or like you have no choices?
When Dylan was little and David was away a lot I would imagine he was
home with me. It helped me be patient with little Dylan to imagine
there was a witness who held me in some regard. How would you behave
with your children if someone you admired was right there in the room
with you? Even if a little trick like that gets you through one
tough moment, that's a moment of sweetness with your kids that you
can gain strength from in the next tough moment.
Sandra Dodd has reminded people to hug their children and smell their
heads. It can reconnect us with our kids in a primal kind of way
that makes us feel protective of them instead of crabby.
My husband listens to music when he needs to recharge.
Deb Lewis
Robert Saxon
Thanks for all y'all's responses! (NOTE: "all y'all's" is plural
possessive)
Some really good ideas here, a good number of which I hadn't thought of.
Nice to know I'm not crazy.
Honestly, it never occurred to me to question that I needed an occasional
break until I read those series of messages (wish I could find them for
reference now). So I needed a sanity-check, and get some more (better?)
tools for living through and mitigating my own stresses.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
possessive)
Some really good ideas here, a good number of which I hadn't thought of.
Nice to know I'm not crazy.
Honestly, it never occurred to me to question that I needed an occasional
break until I read those series of messages (wish I could find them for
reference now). So I needed a sanity-check, and get some more (better?)
tools for living through and mitigating my own stresses.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
Regarding the changing of outlooks, attitudes, or something like that...
We've seen some changes in us, which I believe has translated to a more
respectful (and therefore peaceful) atmosphere here.
Tuesday or so, the girls were very needy. Both of them. My cup was full,
and DWs was near-empty, so she got sent to the office for some her time.
But anytime there was a fuss, a hurt, some kind of upset, (what I hope was)
loving attention was given repeatedly. If something could be addressed
and/or rectified respectfully, then it was. They were given a lot of
latitude to do what they wanted, all that. By the time they were ready for
bed, they seemed to have mellowed out a good bit.
I'm going to remember that Tuesday, b/c it was one of the "yes it could have
been bad but it wound up really good." It was as if I just kept throwing
love at them and they ate it up until they felt safe. But my cup was full
when I got home, and keeping it full is the real goal for me. If I can do
that, evenings like that can happen more often.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We've seen some changes in us, which I believe has translated to a more
respectful (and therefore peaceful) atmosphere here.
Tuesday or so, the girls were very needy. Both of them. My cup was full,
and DWs was near-empty, so she got sent to the office for some her time.
But anytime there was a fuss, a hurt, some kind of upset, (what I hope was)
loving attention was given repeatedly. If something could be addressed
and/or rectified respectfully, then it was. They were given a lot of
latitude to do what they wanted, all that. By the time they were ready for
bed, they seemed to have mellowed out a good bit.
I'm going to remember that Tuesday, b/c it was one of the "yes it could have
been bad but it wound up really good." It was as if I just kept throwing
love at them and they ate it up until they felt safe. But my cup was full
when I got home, and keeping it full is the real goal for me. If I can do
that, evenings like that can happen more often.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
Some people have said they find Scott Noelle's web site and "Daily
Groove" emails helpful.
www.enjoyparenting.com
Deb Lewis
Groove" emails helpful.
www.enjoyparenting.com
Deb Lewis
Deb Lewis
Regarding the idea of "Throwing love at them..."
Someone just forwarded this to me from Scott Noelle's Daily Groove:
Deb Lewis
THE DAILY GROOVE ~ by Scott Noelle
www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
:: Infinite Love ::
Everyone knows 1+1=2. But what is infinity plus one?
It's still infinity! In other words, infinity doesn't
play by the rules of simple math.
To love *unconditionally*, you have to play the
infinity game. You have to transcend the zero-sum game
that says love is scarce.
You have to question the belief that every time you
give love to your child, *less* love is available to
your other child... or your partner... or yourself.
Today, practice remembering your connection to
Infinite Love. Every time you give from that Love,
imagine your "Love Account" balance becoming Infinity
minus one, which is still Infinity!
When you drop the belief that love is a scarce -- that
it must be divided "fairly" between family members --
and you just follow your heart instead, you'll begin
to *experience* that Love really IS infinite.
http://dailygroove.net/infinite-love
Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2007 by Scott Noelle
Today's Daily Groove message was originally
presented on January 17, 2007.
"Inspiration & Coaching for Progressive Parents"
http://www.ScottNoelle.com
http://www.EnjoyParenting.com
1044 Water Street, Suite 342
Port Townsend, WA 98368
USA
Someone just forwarded this to me from Scott Noelle's Daily Groove:
Deb Lewis
THE DAILY GROOVE ~ by Scott Noelle
www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
:: Infinite Love ::
Everyone knows 1+1=2. But what is infinity plus one?
It's still infinity! In other words, infinity doesn't
play by the rules of simple math.
To love *unconditionally*, you have to play the
infinity game. You have to transcend the zero-sum game
that says love is scarce.
You have to question the belief that every time you
give love to your child, *less* love is available to
your other child... or your partner... or yourself.
Today, practice remembering your connection to
Infinite Love. Every time you give from that Love,
imagine your "Love Account" balance becoming Infinity
minus one, which is still Infinity!
When you drop the belief that love is a scarce -- that
it must be divided "fairly" between family members --
and you just follow your heart instead, you'll begin
to *experience* that Love really IS infinite.
http://dailygroove.net/infinite-love
Feel free to forward this message to your friends!
(Please include this paragraph and everything above.)
Copyright (c) 2007 by Scott Noelle
Today's Daily Groove message was originally
presented on January 17, 2007.
"Inspiration & Coaching for Progressive Parents"
http://www.ScottNoelle.com
http://www.EnjoyParenting.com
1044 Water Street, Suite 342
Port Townsend, WA 98368
USA
Ren Allen
~~ So I needed a sanity-check, and get some more (better?)
here at the lists and somehow create the illusion that stressful
moments and learning-takes (also called mistakes) don't happen.
Honestly, when I read someone describing their child's life and saying
how that child was ALWAYS respected or ALWAYS anything, I question
their memory!:)
I need breaks. I need breaks from PEOPLE. My dream is to have a cabin
in the woods like Thoreau and go spend a weekend writing and drinking
tea all by myself.:) Dreamy eh?
It's not going to happen just yet. I already spend time away from my
family to provide an income. Every bit of time I'm off, I want to
connect with them. I get online when dh is playing a fierce game of
Monopoly (hurts my brain) with them, or when everyone is asleep. Going
to a conference here and there is even being questioned at this point,
because I want my family with me.
So.....yeah, we need breaks. I feel that you summed it up nicely
above. We are the adults with more tools and experience, hence it is
OUR responsibility to fill the proverbial cup BEFORE stresses happen
so we are better equipped when things start to disintegrate.
Sometimes in the mornings I have a little conversation with
myself...stating how I want to BE that day. "I respond with love and
kindness. I connect with my child's needs. I am calm and patient."
etc.....
We all have different tools. It's important to find ways to nourish
the calm, beautiful and powerful center in ourselves so we can better
share it with our children....and the world.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
> tools for living through and mitigating my own stresses.~~I think it's really easy for all of us to share the joyful moments
here at the lists and somehow create the illusion that stressful
moments and learning-takes (also called mistakes) don't happen.
Honestly, when I read someone describing their child's life and saying
how that child was ALWAYS respected or ALWAYS anything, I question
their memory!:)
I need breaks. I need breaks from PEOPLE. My dream is to have a cabin
in the woods like Thoreau and go spend a weekend writing and drinking
tea all by myself.:) Dreamy eh?
It's not going to happen just yet. I already spend time away from my
family to provide an income. Every bit of time I'm off, I want to
connect with them. I get online when dh is playing a fierce game of
Monopoly (hurts my brain) with them, or when everyone is asleep. Going
to a conference here and there is even being questioned at this point,
because I want my family with me.
So.....yeah, we need breaks. I feel that you summed it up nicely
above. We are the adults with more tools and experience, hence it is
OUR responsibility to fill the proverbial cup BEFORE stresses happen
so we are better equipped when things start to disintegrate.
Sometimes in the mornings I have a little conversation with
myself...stating how I want to BE that day. "I respond with love and
kindness. I connect with my child's needs. I am calm and patient."
etc.....
We all have different tools. It's important to find ways to nourish
the calm, beautiful and powerful center in ourselves so we can better
share it with our children....and the world.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Lisa
Robert,
My husband has some of the same baggage as far as sort of feeling
in the way or like he owed his father something just for being there
etc so he sometimes has a more difficult time dealing with the noise,
chaos, constant needs that children have. The biggest thing that
has helped is during those times when we are both spent each of us
consciously tries to take up the slack of the other... if he is
getting frustrated I try to have more patience if I am blowing my top
he tries to step in and take the weight off. It's a dance really!
To answer your other questions.... I have four kids ages 17, 14, 12
and 6.... as the kids get older and are able to step in and help with
the younger kids I have felt less overwhelmed. Your kids are little
and believe me it's lasts for such a short time so don't wish them
big! It does get easier when you change your thinking gradually...
demands become needs (mindset starting off is that your child is
demanding this or that...eventually you see they are expressing a need
and you are looking for a way to meet that need) you begin to spend
more time listening to what your child is really saying rather than
what is coming out of their mouth (there are many ways of speaking,
watch your child's eyes and body language is the ice cream really what
the issue is or are they asking for YOU and YOUR attention?
--hypothetical ice cream my example!) You also begin to understand
how to be more honest with your children... I do tell my children that
I need a break, I do tell them no (not knee jerk no but when
circumstances just won't allow something...no money, no time other
people's rules etc) but I try to help them to do or get the things
they want. I think it would be a disservice to never let your child
know you are sad, tired, or whatever... don't use your feelings as a
club but being open and honest.... saying "you know I really would
love to play legos with you but for 10 minutes Daddy really needs to
sit quietly and recharge" that's being honest and communicating your
needs as well.... it's much better than playing legos and resenting it
or being half hearted about it (no one likes a half hearted lego
Daddy!) I do have days when I am exhausted and my 6 yr old demands
more than I feel up to doing ...there are days when I handle it well
and others when I have to negotiate alot to meet his needs and my own.
It really comes down to changing your thinking about what your child
is asking for. Consensual living is not just about kids getting all
of their needs met... it's about everyone in the family having their
needs met. I heard a speaker at a conference once speak about this
type of thing (not an unschooling conference so it was from a
different "place" than most of us are but relevant all the same!)
Anyway the title of her workshop was something along the lines of
"Putting on your own Oxygen mask first!" While I don't put my needs
ahead of my children's needs I do consider them in the scheme of my
life..... I am no good if I just do and do and do for everyone else
and never take care of me. I read before bed.... sometimes that is
at a decent hour but some nights it's not because everyone was up
really late but I still do it because it feeds my need to relax and
recharge. My husband is a napper... he works weird hours so he
doesn't get enough sleep most of the time because he wants to spend
time with the family (he works from 3 am until around noon so instead
of going to bed early he hangs out with us until 10or 11pm) A lot of
afternoons he comes in and really needs a nap... so he will make a
deal with the kids if they want him to do something ...he gets his nap
and at a certain time they can wake him up to do what they wanted to
do. They are good about respecting his need for rest because they
know he will play when he is rested. There are times when our 6 yr
old really doesn't want to wait so they make a deal that he will play
for a while and then take a nap. Anyway because he is honest with
them about this need they don't bother him while he is napping.
It's a process... all of it... some days I think I am highly evolved
and then some days I hear myself snapping at some child to be quiet
because I am tired or overwhelmed and not handling it well. I feel
like an idiot on those days but almost always I realize I am ignoring
MY needs too much. If I take a break and get some quiet I am always
much better!
I think the fact that you are being honest about having baggage (you
can't change something you don't acknowledge!) and honest about
having days when you feel overdone is a great step to examining what
you can change to make everything happier for everyone.
It does get easier as the kids get older and learn that their needs
will be met and get a little less intense about their needs (some kids
never lose this intensity so just know you might have one or even two
of those so you will have to figure out what will work for your family
if that is the case!)
Take care!
Lisa Blocker
My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
My husband has some of the same baggage as far as sort of feeling
in the way or like he owed his father something just for being there
etc so he sometimes has a more difficult time dealing with the noise,
chaos, constant needs that children have. The biggest thing that
has helped is during those times when we are both spent each of us
consciously tries to take up the slack of the other... if he is
getting frustrated I try to have more patience if I am blowing my top
he tries to step in and take the weight off. It's a dance really!
To answer your other questions.... I have four kids ages 17, 14, 12
and 6.... as the kids get older and are able to step in and help with
the younger kids I have felt less overwhelmed. Your kids are little
and believe me it's lasts for such a short time so don't wish them
big! It does get easier when you change your thinking gradually...
demands become needs (mindset starting off is that your child is
demanding this or that...eventually you see they are expressing a need
and you are looking for a way to meet that need) you begin to spend
more time listening to what your child is really saying rather than
what is coming out of their mouth (there are many ways of speaking,
watch your child's eyes and body language is the ice cream really what
the issue is or are they asking for YOU and YOUR attention?
--hypothetical ice cream my example!) You also begin to understand
how to be more honest with your children... I do tell my children that
I need a break, I do tell them no (not knee jerk no but when
circumstances just won't allow something...no money, no time other
people's rules etc) but I try to help them to do or get the things
they want. I think it would be a disservice to never let your child
know you are sad, tired, or whatever... don't use your feelings as a
club but being open and honest.... saying "you know I really would
love to play legos with you but for 10 minutes Daddy really needs to
sit quietly and recharge" that's being honest and communicating your
needs as well.... it's much better than playing legos and resenting it
or being half hearted about it (no one likes a half hearted lego
Daddy!) I do have days when I am exhausted and my 6 yr old demands
more than I feel up to doing ...there are days when I handle it well
and others when I have to negotiate alot to meet his needs and my own.
It really comes down to changing your thinking about what your child
is asking for. Consensual living is not just about kids getting all
of their needs met... it's about everyone in the family having their
needs met. I heard a speaker at a conference once speak about this
type of thing (not an unschooling conference so it was from a
different "place" than most of us are but relevant all the same!)
Anyway the title of her workshop was something along the lines of
"Putting on your own Oxygen mask first!" While I don't put my needs
ahead of my children's needs I do consider them in the scheme of my
life..... I am no good if I just do and do and do for everyone else
and never take care of me. I read before bed.... sometimes that is
at a decent hour but some nights it's not because everyone was up
really late but I still do it because it feeds my need to relax and
recharge. My husband is a napper... he works weird hours so he
doesn't get enough sleep most of the time because he wants to spend
time with the family (he works from 3 am until around noon so instead
of going to bed early he hangs out with us until 10or 11pm) A lot of
afternoons he comes in and really needs a nap... so he will make a
deal with the kids if they want him to do something ...he gets his nap
and at a certain time they can wake him up to do what they wanted to
do. They are good about respecting his need for rest because they
know he will play when he is rested. There are times when our 6 yr
old really doesn't want to wait so they make a deal that he will play
for a while and then take a nap. Anyway because he is honest with
them about this need they don't bother him while he is napping.
It's a process... all of it... some days I think I am highly evolved
and then some days I hear myself snapping at some child to be quiet
because I am tired or overwhelmed and not handling it well. I feel
like an idiot on those days but almost always I realize I am ignoring
MY needs too much. If I take a break and get some quiet I am always
much better!
I think the fact that you are being honest about having baggage (you
can't change something you don't acknowledge!) and honest about
having days when you feel overdone is a great step to examining what
you can change to make everything happier for everyone.
It does get easier as the kids get older and learn that their needs
will be met and get a little less intense about their needs (some kids
never lose this intensity so just know you might have one or even two
of those so you will have to figure out what will work for your family
if that is the case!)
Take care!
Lisa Blocker
My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
> mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DWfeels the
> same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine.But
> sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of usat the
> same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my ownhis time.
> father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up
> So having that set up...If so,
>
> I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
>
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?
> HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keepMore
> following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path.
> information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you alreadythere? What
> signs did you see?
>
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
>
> 3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
>
> --Rob Saxon
> DH to Seana for 10 years
> "Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
>
>
>
Julie
Hi Rob, new here so I feel like I am butting in, but my husband and I
worked out a way to get time out for us if necessary without causing
problems for my son.
My son can be difficult to deal with at times, simply because he is very
needy emotionally. That's fine most of the time but it can often feel
like I have more than one child at a time. I actually have two, but they
were really spread out, so it is like I have two only children if that
makes sense. My husband has two from a previous marriage, but they were
13 and 11 when my daughter and I came into the relationship when she was
2 years. Then when my son was born (the only child between my husband
and myself) my daughter was 12 and his kids were full grown with their
own families. Now my son is 11 (nearly 12) and my daughter is full
grown, though still living with us.
Caleb has always been incredibly emotional as he has early onset bipolar
disorder. However I am also bipolar, my husband has problems with
depression, and my daughter is also bipolar so the emotions in this
house can run pretty high at times. Sometimes in order to keep the
sanity, one of us needs a time out. My husband and I have a running
agreement that if one of us gets stressed out, we get time to be on our
own. I have to have that time as it can be highly unhealthy if I don't.
Being an artist, I will basically go into my studio and turn on the
music and take time for myself for an hour or several and just create,
until I feel like I can be with Caleb again and be a loving, caring
adult. During that time, my husband takes over, and keeps him occupied.
Caleb doesn't feel this is me being neglectful of him, because he gets
alone time with Dad at that point, I get some sanity time, and the same
goes for my husband if he needs time out.
I used to do this more often years ago, but now that Caleb is older, he
is spending more time doing his own thing. He goes to visit his friends
in he neighborhood, is outside playing, or has other friends over that
keeps him occupied. It does get MUCH easier as they get older. I
actually feel a bit left out now that he doesn't need me as much
anymore, but I know that this is just a part of growing up. Once we
start unschooling we will have plenty of together time once again,
because there won't be time at school and time with friends, it will be
time with me and time with friends.
It might be a good time to sit down with your wife, and offer time out
for her and ask for a bit of time out for yourself when you need it as
well. These can be made special times for the kids as well. I know that
you may want more time alone together with your wife, but these short
time outs with everyone's blessing can be a lifesaver as well. If there
is something special that your kids love to do, make that the special
time to spend with Dad while mom takes a break, or vice-versa. Then the
kids might look forward to those times just as much as each of you do!
It may be as simple as being able to go to the store alone, or to go for
a walk for a while to regroup, or go into another room and read, do
exercises, or whatever floats your boat. They have been a mental and
emotional lifesaver for all of us.
Cheers,
Julie
worked out a way to get time out for us if necessary without causing
problems for my son.
My son can be difficult to deal with at times, simply because he is very
needy emotionally. That's fine most of the time but it can often feel
like I have more than one child at a time. I actually have two, but they
were really spread out, so it is like I have two only children if that
makes sense. My husband has two from a previous marriage, but they were
13 and 11 when my daughter and I came into the relationship when she was
2 years. Then when my son was born (the only child between my husband
and myself) my daughter was 12 and his kids were full grown with their
own families. Now my son is 11 (nearly 12) and my daughter is full
grown, though still living with us.
Caleb has always been incredibly emotional as he has early onset bipolar
disorder. However I am also bipolar, my husband has problems with
depression, and my daughter is also bipolar so the emotions in this
house can run pretty high at times. Sometimes in order to keep the
sanity, one of us needs a time out. My husband and I have a running
agreement that if one of us gets stressed out, we get time to be on our
own. I have to have that time as it can be highly unhealthy if I don't.
Being an artist, I will basically go into my studio and turn on the
music and take time for myself for an hour or several and just create,
until I feel like I can be with Caleb again and be a loving, caring
adult. During that time, my husband takes over, and keeps him occupied.
Caleb doesn't feel this is me being neglectful of him, because he gets
alone time with Dad at that point, I get some sanity time, and the same
goes for my husband if he needs time out.
I used to do this more often years ago, but now that Caleb is older, he
is spending more time doing his own thing. He goes to visit his friends
in he neighborhood, is outside playing, or has other friends over that
keeps him occupied. It does get MUCH easier as they get older. I
actually feel a bit left out now that he doesn't need me as much
anymore, but I know that this is just a part of growing up. Once we
start unschooling we will have plenty of together time once again,
because there won't be time at school and time with friends, it will be
time with me and time with friends.
It might be a good time to sit down with your wife, and offer time out
for her and ask for a bit of time out for yourself when you need it as
well. These can be made special times for the kids as well. I know that
you may want more time alone together with your wife, but these short
time outs with everyone's blessing can be a lifesaver as well. If there
is something special that your kids love to do, make that the special
time to spend with Dad while mom takes a break, or vice-versa. Then the
kids might look forward to those times just as much as each of you do!
It may be as simple as being able to go to the store alone, or to go for
a walk for a while to regroup, or go into another room and read, do
exercises, or whatever floats your boat. They have been a mental and
emotional lifesaver for all of us.
Cheers,
Julie
> This is a cross-post, but I don't think there'll be many duplicates. Sorry
> if this nails you twice.
>
> Right. So. Here goes.
>
> I was reading online recently about a woman who "needed a break" from her
> kids. Most responses to her post were shock, surprise, and in general not
> really understanding why someone would NOT want to be with their kids.
> There were a couple of "sure, I hear you." And there were other issues
> involved that I don't want to touch on here. But I fully get this. This is
> an issue for me. My kids DO wear me out, physically, emotionally, and
> mentally. And I'm the one who goes to work during the week. DW feels the
> same way, only more so sometimes. Most of the time things are fine. But
> sometimes we get really stressed, and when it happens to both of us at the
> same time, then life is not good. NOTE: Some is baggage from my own
> father, who came across to both me and bro that we were taking up his time.
> So having that set up...
>
> I have three questions, but I'll put the big one up first.
>
> 1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way? If so,
> HOW did you get there? I'm really interested in more than just "keep
> following unschooling/consensual living/<insert buzzword here> path. More
> information, please. How did YOU get there? Were you already there? What
> signs did you see?
>
> 2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
>
> 3. Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
>
> --Rob Saxon
> DH to Seana for 10 years
> "Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.75) and Elissa (4.5)
Alison Broadbent
Hi Rob,
I have one very interactive 7 1/2 year old. He likes to be involved
w/ doing things w/ me or someone lots of the time. We go do things,
we have play dates but the thing that has helped the most to get some
time for myself is I put out a message on our unschoolers group. I
asked whether there was a young person who would like to be a
mother's helper. What we found was a lovely 11 year old girl who
likes playing w/ Asher. I'm always home and it's not as though I've
got the day off. But enough so that I can have some time to do
things I need or do nothing in particular (actually that seems to be
more likely than actually getting stuff done!) That might be harder
w/ 2 younger kids but it could still help I think if you can find the
right person.
It's been a stressful year for me and having that time has been
really helpful. And doesn't break the bank!
Alison
I have one very interactive 7 1/2 year old. He likes to be involved
w/ doing things w/ me or someone lots of the time. We go do things,
we have play dates but the thing that has helped the most to get some
time for myself is I put out a message on our unschoolers group. I
asked whether there was a young person who would like to be a
mother's helper. What we found was a lovely 11 year old girl who
likes playing w/ Asher. I'm always home and it's not as though I've
got the day off. But enough so that I can have some time to do
things I need or do nothing in particular (actually that seems to be
more likely than actually getting stuff done!) That might be harder
w/ 2 younger kids but it could still help I think if you can find the
right person.
It's been a stressful year for me and having that time has been
really helpful. And doesn't break the bank!
Alison
Ren Allen
~~Her picture is my constant reminder
that even in my most frustrating parenting moments, at least I'm here
to have the pleasure of experiencing them. That perspective helps me
too.~~
Hannah's tree in my backyard is my "picture" that brings me back to
what is truly important.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
that even in my most frustrating parenting moments, at least I'm here
to have the pleasure of experiencing them. That perspective helps me
too.~~
Hannah's tree in my backyard is my "picture" that brings me back to
what is truly important.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Debra Rossing
>Maybe try some mood altering substance like magnesium or pasta or lighttherapy.
Or CHOCOLATE! A legal mood altering substance that, when taken in small
doses of good quality dark chocolate, actually has some antioxidant
properties as well.
Deb
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Ren Allen
~~Or CHOCOLATE! A legal mood altering substance that, when taken in
small doses of good quality dark chocolate, actually has some
antioxidant properties as well.~~
Small doses??? SMALL doses??? What? Nobody told me small doses were
acceptable. Sheesh.
I think truffles and tea are the source of life itself. Not to mention
pure truth.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
small doses of good quality dark chocolate, actually has some
antioxidant properties as well.~~
Small doses??? SMALL doses??? What? Nobody told me small doses were
acceptable. Sheesh.
I think truffles and tea are the source of life itself. Not to mention
pure truth.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
carenkh
Not to mention, it keeps the dementors away.
Caren
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Caren
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~Or CHOCOLATE! A legal mood altering substance that, when taken in
> small doses of good quality dark chocolate, actually has some
> antioxidant properties as well.~~
>
> Small doses??? SMALL doses??? What? Nobody told me small doses were
> acceptable. Sheesh.
> I think truffles and tea are the source of life itself. Not to mention
> pure truth.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
trektheory
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
if you have a medical condition... got a doctor's note, etc.
My theory is that people long ago had such short life expectancies
(okay, I know, infant mortality reduced the average a lot, but they
were still less likely to live as long as now) because they had no
chocolate. No reason to live.
Linda the chocoholic
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>Of COURSE small doses are not acceptable! ;-) Well, okay, but only
> ~~Or CHOCOLATE! A legal mood altering substance that, when taken in
> small doses of good quality dark chocolate, actually has some
> antioxidant properties as well.~~
>
> Small doses??? SMALL doses??? What? Nobody told me small doses were
> acceptable. Sheesh.
> I think truffles and tea are the source of life itself. Not to mention
> pure truth.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
if you have a medical condition... got a doctor's note, etc.
My theory is that people long ago had such short life expectancies
(okay, I know, infant mortality reduced the average a lot, but they
were still less likely to live as long as now) because they had no
chocolate. No reason to live.
Linda the chocoholic
Debra Rossing
>Small doses??? SMALL doses??? What? Nobody told me small doses wereacceptable. Sheesh. I think truffles and tea are the source of life
itself. Not to >mention pure truth.
OKAY LOL Large doses (but the 'studies' all say to not overdo it because
of the sugar and calories involved).
Not to mention that chocolate is connected to everything in the world!
Deb
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Debra Rossing
>Not to mention, it keeps the dementors away.That's one of my favorite wizarding things - you get to, are encouraged
to, have lots of chocolate on hand at all times. It's used *medicinally*
even!
Deb
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Robert Saxon
ildflower,
Sorry I never answered this one.
Sometimes they both really demand attention NOW and CONSTANTLY or life is
bad. I need to drop what I'm doing immediately (sometimes before I even get
inside the house from work) and keep on being with them.
I really try to, but it's when they tag-team me that just sends me.
dd1: "Daddy, would you do this?"
Me: "Sure..."
dd1: "OK, now do this
dd2: "Daddy, come here!" (from the other room)
Back and forth, back and forth, I'm a yo-yo and it gets faster and faster
until they're both talking on top of each other trying to get my attention
and be with them, individually.
Hmmm...
So, they're competing for my attention. They also do this with DW. Each
girl by themselves is really wonderful to be around. But sometimes when
they're together, it's constant vying for and demanding attention. Scarcity
of resources. One-upsmanship?
Not sure how to address this one now, will have to thnk on it some more.
Good question, thank you.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry I never answered this one.
> What is it about being around your kids that is stressing you and yourwife out?
Sometimes they both really demand attention NOW and CONSTANTLY or life is
bad. I need to drop what I'm doing immediately (sometimes before I even get
inside the house from work) and keep on being with them.
I really try to, but it's when they tag-team me that just sends me.
dd1: "Daddy, would you do this?"
Me: "Sure..."
dd1: "OK, now do this
dd2: "Daddy, come here!" (from the other room)
Back and forth, back and forth, I'm a yo-yo and it gets faster and faster
until they're both talking on top of each other trying to get my attention
and be with them, individually.
Hmmm...
So, they're competing for my attention. They also do this with DW. Each
girl by themselves is really wonderful to be around. But sometimes when
they're together, it's constant vying for and demanding attention. Scarcity
of resources. One-upsmanship?
Not sure how to address this one now, will have to thnk on it some more.
Good question, thank you.
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
Wow! You people are fantastic! Thanks for all the input, I've got loads to
go through. Since there was so much stuff here, I thought I'd summarize all
the wonderful answers that were shared. A number of them were repeated, so
there are definitely some common tools that work for a lot of us. There
were also some very creative answers. Once again, thank you all.
Here you'll find some of your stuff quoted, a lot paraphrased. I tried to
break up the answers based on the questions originally asked so that it
would make sense. Hope y'all find this helpful.
--Rob
Q1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?
A1: As they get older and need less
A2: It's normal to need some down-time.
A3: The desire is normal, and take the time where you can. But "there is
not adult time but family time."
A4: Sometimes. It's several pieces of a puzzle. Kids will get older.
Don't wait until you're burned out before getting a break. Change your
perspective.
A5: Changing perspectives: have a conversation with myself...stating how I
want to BE that day.
A6: Changing perspectives: children are not "demanding this or that..."
they are expressing a need and you are looking for a way to meet that need.
You begin...listening to what your child is really saying rather than what
is coming out of their mouth."
A7: Changing perspectives: Tell self that in so many years, they will not
want my attention so much
A8: Changing perspectives: Smell your kids' heads. Connect in a primal
kind of way with our kids.
Q2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
a. Carve out "me" time (NOTE: There are LOTS of examples of this, I just had
to put them all in here.)
b. Get up early
c. Martial Arts classes
d. Computer games
e. non-child movies on weekends while spouse takes a shift
f. Read a book
g. Read a book on the toilet
h. Do what I want in-between the 3 million things they want fro mme
i. Stay up later
j. If they agree, run to the story by myself
k. Get the kids all worn out so they'll fall asleep earlier
l. Exercise every day if you can...it doesn't have to be a life-changing
regimen to be mood changing. Maybe try some mood-altering substance like
magnesium or pasta or light therapy.
m. Take advantage of when they want to stay and grandma's
n. Take a break WITH them. Declare tickle or chase time. After so many
minutes they will play alone to give you more time alone doing your thing.
j. Take long showers.
k. If I'm cranky...go into a room alone for five minutes and calm myslef
with breathing or yoga and positive self-talk.
l. Bounce on the trampoline.
m: Become aware of the stress build-up and take breaks early on so as not to
explode later.
n: Play dates
o: Take advantage of times when kids amuse themselves
p: "I need a rest right now. If there's an emergency, come get me..."
q: Imagine there was a witness who held me in some regard (what to do when
it's tough)
r: Listen to music
s: Put on a movie.
t: You and spouse consciously try to take up the slack for the other when
they're feeling the stress. "It's a dance really!"
u: Alternate weekend activities with spouse to let the other one do stuff
(usually un-fun stuff, but solo stuff nonetheless).
v: "...I put out a message on our unschoolers group. I asked whether there
was a young person who would like to be a mother's helper..."
w: "...if one of us gets stressed out, we get time to be on our own."
Q3: Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
A1: No.
A2: Yes- No- Maybe-. If they died tomorrow you'd regret the many times you
took a break from them. They are small, and they WANT to be around you.
A3: Maybe. Depends on who you are. But if you don't do some self-checking,
you could be headed for a big crisis.
Other Comments:
1. Scott Noelle's web site and "Daily Groove emails. www.enjoyparenting.com
2. Regarding a shift in attitude: Drop the belief that love is a zero-sum
game, that love is a scarce resource. Love really IS infinite. See whole
post at www.enjoyparenting.com/infinite-love
3. Consensual living is not just about kids getting all of their needs
met...it's about everyone in the family having their needs met.
4. It's a process...all of it... some days I think I am highly evolved and
then some days I hear myself snapping at some child to be quiet...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
go through. Since there was so much stuff here, I thought I'd summarize all
the wonderful answers that were shared. A number of them were repeated, so
there are definitely some common tools that work for a lot of us. There
were also some very creative answers. Once again, thank you all.
Here you'll find some of your stuff quoted, a lot paraphrased. I tried to
break up the answers based on the questions originally asked so that it
would make sense. Hope y'all find this helpful.
--Rob
Q1. Do you EVER get to the point where you're NOT feeling this way?
A1: As they get older and need less
A2: It's normal to need some down-time.
A3: The desire is normal, and take the time where you can. But "there is
not adult time but family time."
A4: Sometimes. It's several pieces of a puzzle. Kids will get older.
Don't wait until you're burned out before getting a break. Change your
perspective.
A5: Changing perspectives: have a conversation with myself...stating how I
want to BE that day.
A6: Changing perspectives: children are not "demanding this or that..."
they are expressing a need and you are looking for a way to meet that need.
You begin...listening to what your child is really saying rather than what
is coming out of their mouth."
A7: Changing perspectives: Tell self that in so many years, they will not
want my attention so much
A8: Changing perspectives: Smell your kids' heads. Connect in a primal
kind of way with our kids.
Q2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
a. Carve out "me" time (NOTE: There are LOTS of examples of this, I just had
to put them all in here.)
b. Get up early
c. Martial Arts classes
d. Computer games
e. non-child movies on weekends while spouse takes a shift
f. Read a book
g. Read a book on the toilet
h. Do what I want in-between the 3 million things they want fro mme
i. Stay up later
j. If they agree, run to the story by myself
k. Get the kids all worn out so they'll fall asleep earlier
l. Exercise every day if you can...it doesn't have to be a life-changing
regimen to be mood changing. Maybe try some mood-altering substance like
magnesium or pasta or light therapy.
m. Take advantage of when they want to stay and grandma's
n. Take a break WITH them. Declare tickle or chase time. After so many
minutes they will play alone to give you more time alone doing your thing.
j. Take long showers.
k. If I'm cranky...go into a room alone for five minutes and calm myslef
with breathing or yoga and positive self-talk.
l. Bounce on the trampoline.
m: Become aware of the stress build-up and take breaks early on so as not to
explode later.
n: Play dates
o: Take advantage of times when kids amuse themselves
p: "I need a rest right now. If there's an emergency, come get me..."
q: Imagine there was a witness who held me in some regard (what to do when
it's tough)
r: Listen to music
s: Put on a movie.
t: You and spouse consciously try to take up the slack for the other when
they're feeling the stress. "It's a dance really!"
u: Alternate weekend activities with spouse to let the other one do stuff
(usually un-fun stuff, but solo stuff nonetheless).
v: "...I put out a message on our unschoolers group. I asked whether there
was a young person who would like to be a mother's helper..."
w: "...if one of us gets stressed out, we get time to be on our own."
Q3: Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill?
A1: No.
A2: Yes- No- Maybe-. If they died tomorrow you'd regret the many times you
took a break from them. They are small, and they WANT to be around you.
A3: Maybe. Depends on who you are. But if you don't do some self-checking,
you could be headed for a big crisis.
Other Comments:
1. Scott Noelle's web site and "Daily Groove emails. www.enjoyparenting.com
2. Regarding a shift in attitude: Drop the belief that love is a zero-sum
game, that love is a scarce resource. Love really IS infinite. See whole
post at www.enjoyparenting.com/infinite-love
3. Consensual living is not just about kids getting all of their needs
met...it's about everyone in the family having their needs met.
4. It's a process...all of it... some days I think I am highly evolved and
then some days I hear myself snapping at some child to be quiet...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
Update to the list of answers. GMail doesn't always group conversations
together properly.
Q2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
a. "We have a peaceful chair...a chair that anyone can go to and take a
time out if they need some space."
b. "Sometimes removing myself from the situation isn't the answer but
rather engaging more with the kiddos is."
c. CHOCOLATE, and LOTS of it! Not only is it a mind-altering food, it
keeps the dementors away. (I just LOVE this one!)
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
together properly.
Q2. What do you do to take a break, if you do?
a. "We have a peaceful chair...a chair that anyone can go to and take a
time out if they need some space."
b. "Sometimes removing myself from the situation isn't the answer but
rather engaging more with the kiddos is."
c. CHOCOLATE, and LOTS of it! Not only is it a mind-altering food, it
keeps the dementors away. (I just LOVE this one!)
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Not to mention that chocolate is connected to everything in the world!~~
Yes, yes, yes!! I've heard that somewhere before....;)
I just have to share this rather ironic thing;
after the talk in Hickory NC at the Love to Learn conference (did the
"portals to knowledge" one there) two women gushily told me how
inspirational my talk was and that because of that, they were going to
do a UNIT STUDY on chocolate.
Well I just about fell over right then and there.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com\
Yes, yes, yes!! I've heard that somewhere before....;)
I just have to share this rather ironic thing;
after the talk in Hickory NC at the Love to Learn conference (did the
"portals to knowledge" one there) two women gushily told me how
inspirational my talk was and that because of that, they were going to
do a UNIT STUDY on chocolate.
Well I just about fell over right then and there.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com\
marji
At 22:54 9/18/2007, you wrote:
THINK! (Somebody MUST'VE said that one before!)
Marji, who's plannin' a little "unit study" on an Equal Exchange dark
chocolate bar with cocoa nibs that I have in the freezer later on
today. Uhh, strictly for research purposes, you know!
"unit study." ::sigh::
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I just have to share this rather ironic thing;You can lead a person to the conference, but you CAN'T make 'em
>after the talk in Hickory NC at the Love to Learn conference (did the
>"portals to knowledge" one there) two women gushily told me how
>inspirational my talk was and that because of that, they were going to
>do a UNIT STUDY on chocolate.
THINK! (Somebody MUST'VE said that one before!)
Marji, who's plannin' a little "unit study" on an Equal Exchange dark
chocolate bar with cocoa nibs that I have in the freezer later on
today. Uhh, strictly for research purposes, you know!
"unit study." ::sigh::
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
Marji,
'cause you LOVE it! (And 'cause it keeps the dementors away!)
DW said that she becomes a Dementor if she doesn't get enough chocolate!
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "unit study." ::sigh::You gotta GET OUT there and OWN that chocolate! No excuses, you're doin' it
'cause you LOVE it! (And 'cause it keeps the dementors away!)
DW said that she becomes a Dementor if she doesn't get enough chocolate!
--Rob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]