What to do about spiteful child who's not mine
Lisa O
Looking for an objective point of view on this subject. It's long...
I've been perseverating about this issue for several weeks since my
cousin's 4yo dtr stayed several days with us...and now I've agreed
to watch her for several days, yet again. I love my dear cousin, and
care about her child, but I truly suffered through the days of
watching her. My 4.10yo son and she play well together, that's not
the issue, or it would be simple. It seems to be only adults she
acts out toward.
I can grasp all of the possible explanations for her behaviors, but
I don't know how to HANDLE them.
Last visit she would demand something (say a corny dog from Sonic).
In my good humor I would oblige and we'd all go to Sonic. I get what
she wants, only to have her throw it on the floor and demand my son
give her his cheeseburger instead, because she changed her mind.
Something resembling this scenario happened at every meal. I am very
accommodating, but I don't give-in to these types of tantrums. Offer
simple solutions to diffuse the situation, yes, but go the extra
mile to please her, no.
I took the kids swimming. When it was time to go (both kids were in
my arms), I announced they have 5 min, 2min, 1min left, so they'd
have time to wrap up playtime. When the moment to get out of the
pool arrived I said so and began to exit the pool with both kids.
She yelled 'no!' in a very angry voice and splashed me in the face
with water, using a fist that stayed in hitting position way too
long for me. I discussed it with her afterward, but only got
defiance in return, as she went to the chairs on the other side of
the pool, and required I carry her out, because she wouldn't get up
from the chair. No amount of gentle reasoning changed anything.
At home, my 10mo was with my dh, and had just slept. For my having
cut her requested sandwich in half, she ran to the guest bedroom and
began a screaming fit. I at first voiced concern for her,not knowing
why she was screaming. But when she turned and screamed in my face,
I lost my patience. I was just about to carry her outside to finish
her fit (sleeping baby), when I heard my baby wake up. I put her
back on the bed and swatted her on the behind, which to this day I
lament over.
If I could ignore her behaviors, I would. But she esculates if I
do. And there's no telling what lengths she'll go to. She gets
aggressive, destructive, and loud. Talking to her in a gentle or
assertive tone doesn't make a difference. She acts like I don't
exist, and continues on with either the behavior I've asked her to
please stop, or the tantrum because I've asked her to stop.
The only solution I can think of is to keep us at home all the days
she's here, and give her timeout on the couch if she begins a
tantrum (I don't DO timeout...does it really work for kids like
this?)
If ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS, I would so appreciate it. An
objective point of view would benefit me greatly. Thanks, Lisa O
I've been perseverating about this issue for several weeks since my
cousin's 4yo dtr stayed several days with us...and now I've agreed
to watch her for several days, yet again. I love my dear cousin, and
care about her child, but I truly suffered through the days of
watching her. My 4.10yo son and she play well together, that's not
the issue, or it would be simple. It seems to be only adults she
acts out toward.
I can grasp all of the possible explanations for her behaviors, but
I don't know how to HANDLE them.
Last visit she would demand something (say a corny dog from Sonic).
In my good humor I would oblige and we'd all go to Sonic. I get what
she wants, only to have her throw it on the floor and demand my son
give her his cheeseburger instead, because she changed her mind.
Something resembling this scenario happened at every meal. I am very
accommodating, but I don't give-in to these types of tantrums. Offer
simple solutions to diffuse the situation, yes, but go the extra
mile to please her, no.
I took the kids swimming. When it was time to go (both kids were in
my arms), I announced they have 5 min, 2min, 1min left, so they'd
have time to wrap up playtime. When the moment to get out of the
pool arrived I said so and began to exit the pool with both kids.
She yelled 'no!' in a very angry voice and splashed me in the face
with water, using a fist that stayed in hitting position way too
long for me. I discussed it with her afterward, but only got
defiance in return, as she went to the chairs on the other side of
the pool, and required I carry her out, because she wouldn't get up
from the chair. No amount of gentle reasoning changed anything.
At home, my 10mo was with my dh, and had just slept. For my having
cut her requested sandwich in half, she ran to the guest bedroom and
began a screaming fit. I at first voiced concern for her,not knowing
why she was screaming. But when she turned and screamed in my face,
I lost my patience. I was just about to carry her outside to finish
her fit (sleeping baby), when I heard my baby wake up. I put her
back on the bed and swatted her on the behind, which to this day I
lament over.
If I could ignore her behaviors, I would. But she esculates if I
do. And there's no telling what lengths she'll go to. She gets
aggressive, destructive, and loud. Talking to her in a gentle or
assertive tone doesn't make a difference. She acts like I don't
exist, and continues on with either the behavior I've asked her to
please stop, or the tantrum because I've asked her to stop.
The only solution I can think of is to keep us at home all the days
she's here, and give her timeout on the couch if she begins a
tantrum (I don't DO timeout...does it really work for kids like
this?)
If ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS, I would so appreciate it. An
objective point of view would benefit me greatly. Thanks, Lisa O
castlecarver
One of my earliest memories involves me having a tantrum and how my
grandmother responded to it. I was about 4. My parents left me with my
grandparents for several weeks. If I remember correctly my mother was
ill, my father was working and there was no one at home to watch me...
but I didn't want to be there.
I began having tantrums at every meal just like you are describing.
Then one day while I was acting out my grand mother took me kicking
and screaming to the barn and deposited me in an empty stall with the
words "You are acting like an animal. The animals live in the barn.
When you decide you are no longer an animal you may come back to live
with the humans in the house." said in the kindest voice she could
muster. She didn't yell. She didn't hit me. She just closed the stall
door and didn't lock it so I could get out when I wanted. Then she
walked back to the house.
Once she was inside the house, I continued my tantrum kicking the
walls and throwing hay around until I had exhausted myself and found
that the animals were giving me curious looks.
I stayed in the barn until I got hungry. The tantrum happened over
breakfast and I went in around lunch time. (a long time for a young
child anyway) When I went back to the house my grandmother asked if I
had decided to be a human again. I don't remember what I told her. But
I do remember that was the very last temper tantrum I ever had at
anyone. It was exactly what I needed at the time... to be alone until
I chose to be with people. The time limit was self imposed.
BTW My granddad kept checking on me. He thought I couldn't see him
peeking in the big door as he walked by.
So I guess time out does work. It did with me.
grandmother responded to it. I was about 4. My parents left me with my
grandparents for several weeks. If I remember correctly my mother was
ill, my father was working and there was no one at home to watch me...
but I didn't want to be there.
I began having tantrums at every meal just like you are describing.
Then one day while I was acting out my grand mother took me kicking
and screaming to the barn and deposited me in an empty stall with the
words "You are acting like an animal. The animals live in the barn.
When you decide you are no longer an animal you may come back to live
with the humans in the house." said in the kindest voice she could
muster. She didn't yell. She didn't hit me. She just closed the stall
door and didn't lock it so I could get out when I wanted. Then she
walked back to the house.
Once she was inside the house, I continued my tantrum kicking the
walls and throwing hay around until I had exhausted myself and found
that the animals were giving me curious looks.
I stayed in the barn until I got hungry. The tantrum happened over
breakfast and I went in around lunch time. (a long time for a young
child anyway) When I went back to the house my grandmother asked if I
had decided to be a human again. I don't remember what I told her. But
I do remember that was the very last temper tantrum I ever had at
anyone. It was exactly what I needed at the time... to be alone until
I chose to be with people. The time limit was self imposed.
BTW My granddad kept checking on me. He thought I couldn't see him
peeking in the big door as he walked by.
So I guess time out does work. It did with me.
--- In [email protected], "Lisa O" <roozoomom@...> wrote:
>
> Looking for an objective point of view on this subject. It's long...
>
> I've been perseverating about this issue for several weeks since my
> cousin's 4yo dtr stayed several days with us...and now I've agreed
> to watch her for several days, yet again. I love my dear cousin, and
> care about her child, but I truly suffered through the days of
> watching her. My 4.10yo son and she play well together, that's not
> the issue, or it would be simple. It seems to be only adults she
> acts out toward.
>
> I can grasp all of the possible explanations for her behaviors, but
> I don't know how to HANDLE them.
>
> Last visit she would demand something (say a corny dog from Sonic).
> In my good humor I would oblige and we'd all go to Sonic. I get what
> she wants, only to have her throw it on the floor and demand my son
> give her his cheeseburger instead, because she changed her mind.
> Something resembling this scenario happened at every meal. I am very
> accommodating, but I don't give-in to these types of tantrums. Offer
> simple solutions to diffuse the situation, yes, but go the extra
> mile to please her, no.
>
> I took the kids swimming. When it was time to go (both kids were in
> my arms), I announced they have 5 min, 2min, 1min left, so they'd
> have time to wrap up playtime. When the moment to get out of the
> pool arrived I said so and began to exit the pool with both kids.
> She yelled 'no!' in a very angry voice and splashed me in the face
> with water, using a fist that stayed in hitting position way too
> long for me. I discussed it with her afterward, but only got
> defiance in return, as she went to the chairs on the other side of
> the pool, and required I carry her out, because she wouldn't get up
> from the chair. No amount of gentle reasoning changed anything.
>
> At home, my 10mo was with my dh, and had just slept. For my having
> cut her requested sandwich in half, she ran to the guest bedroom and
> began a screaming fit. I at first voiced concern for her,not knowing
> why she was screaming. But when she turned and screamed in my face,
> I lost my patience. I was just about to carry her outside to finish
> her fit (sleeping baby), when I heard my baby wake up. I put her
> back on the bed and swatted her on the behind, which to this day I
> lament over.
>
> If I could ignore her behaviors, I would. But she esculates if I
> do. And there's no telling what lengths she'll go to. She gets
> aggressive, destructive, and loud. Talking to her in a gentle or
> assertive tone doesn't make a difference. She acts like I don't
> exist, and continues on with either the behavior I've asked her to
> please stop, or the tantrum because I've asked her to stop.
>
> The only solution I can think of is to keep us at home all the days
> she's here, and give her timeout on the couch if she begins a
> tantrum (I don't DO timeout...does it really work for kids like
> this?)
>
> If ANYONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS, I would so appreciate it. An
> objective point of view would benefit me greatly. Thanks, Lisa O
>
Emilie
Hi,
Here is my perspective. Maybe it will be of some help.
I have a daughter who is almost four. She nurses still and has
been attachment parented since birth. She is very slow to warm up and
can only be left with my husband if I am not available. I stay at
home with her and her two sisters so this isn't often a problem. She
is a wonderful, strong, happy creative child. She gets very physical
and very upset when things don't go her way when she is tired or
hungry or overstimulated. Her behavior is a little different from
what you are describing, but in many ways it is similar. My daughter
often responds very powerfully to seemingly small things. Her
sandwich being cut when she does not want it cut is truly devastating
to her and she will not eat it. She will almost always want what her
older sister has even if she really wanted something else a few
minutes ago. She really is not capable of being quiet when my baby
is sleeping. She can do it for a few minutes but forgets and is loud,
or gets upset about something and is really loud.
I think that many children around this age get very passionate
about tiny details. They are learning about their own preferences and
their ability to control their own environment. Some children are
pretty flexible during this process, others are not. For my daughter
it truly seems to her like the world will end if her preference is
not met. Her socks have to be just so on her feet or she screams and
kicks. She has very strong reactions.
I feel that this behavior is pretty developmentally
appropriate. Inconvenient, but appropriate. There are many children
with more easy going temperaments who will not react this way during
this developmental stage. But for many children, this is typical. I
am pretty picky about my socks too :-). When my wrist was broken and
my husband had to put them on for me they always felt wrong. I try to
imagine what it feels like to be so small and have to rely on others
for these types of things.
I also try to help her get her preference whenever I can. I try to
give her as much information beforehand so that she will not be
surprised. I will remind her more than once at a restaurant that her
sister is having grilled cheese, and ask her if she still wants pasta
before we order. Often she will switch her choice, often she will
not. This does reduce the number of occasions where she is
disappointed but doesn't eliminate them. Sometimes her sister will
share with her if she becomes really upset about her choice.
Sometimes she won't. We try to help her get what she wants, but
sometimes it is just not possible or at least not practical. Those
times she has to live with not having her choice. If she feels like
we have genuinely tried, she tends to be less upset. If she feels
like we are trying to push the unwanted item on her, like a cut
sandwich for example, she will become enraged. The more we push, the
angrier and more out of control she becomes. Usually there is a
solution. A new sandwich sometimes. Or a yogurt she can get from the
fridge herself, some almonds. We try to keep things which she will
eat readily around the house or packed to take with us. We try to
make her feel more in control when she starts acting like this, not
less in control. This tends to diffuse things.
Transitions are hard for her too. I try to talk to her
about how she will feel when it is time to leave before we even
arrive. We count down the time for longer i.e., swimming is half
over, is there anything that you want to do before we are done? we
have time for five more trips across the pool, we say bye to the pool, etc.
My older daughter (now six) went through many of these same
issues at 3 and 4 years. She now is pretty flexible about most things
and has ceased to be a 'picky eater' entirely. She has tremendous
empathy for her younger sister when she acts this way. I guess she
remembers what it felt like. When I get exasperated, my older
daughter reminds me of how important it is to her sister to have
things just so.
That said, my almost four year old is too little to go away from her
family for "several days" (for that matter so is my 6 year old:-)) .
Her behavior sounds to me like she really needs to connect. She needs
outside help to calm down. She needs to feel that she is safe and
that life is predictable. To me, that is what a tantrum is. Overload
and a cry for help. Maybe she just isn't ready for this type of
extended visit. If she does have to be away from home, maybe she
needs fewer transitions and more support in decision making. For some
a sandwich is just a sandwich i.e, my husband, others special order
every aspect of their meal down to tiny details i.e., me. Temperament
accounts for a lot.
warmly,
Emilie
At 02:31 PM 25/08/2007, you wrote:
Here is my perspective. Maybe it will be of some help.
I have a daughter who is almost four. She nurses still and has
been attachment parented since birth. She is very slow to warm up and
can only be left with my husband if I am not available. I stay at
home with her and her two sisters so this isn't often a problem. She
is a wonderful, strong, happy creative child. She gets very physical
and very upset when things don't go her way when she is tired or
hungry or overstimulated. Her behavior is a little different from
what you are describing, but in many ways it is similar. My daughter
often responds very powerfully to seemingly small things. Her
sandwich being cut when she does not want it cut is truly devastating
to her and she will not eat it. She will almost always want what her
older sister has even if she really wanted something else a few
minutes ago. She really is not capable of being quiet when my baby
is sleeping. She can do it for a few minutes but forgets and is loud,
or gets upset about something and is really loud.
I think that many children around this age get very passionate
about tiny details. They are learning about their own preferences and
their ability to control their own environment. Some children are
pretty flexible during this process, others are not. For my daughter
it truly seems to her like the world will end if her preference is
not met. Her socks have to be just so on her feet or she screams and
kicks. She has very strong reactions.
I feel that this behavior is pretty developmentally
appropriate. Inconvenient, but appropriate. There are many children
with more easy going temperaments who will not react this way during
this developmental stage. But for many children, this is typical. I
am pretty picky about my socks too :-). When my wrist was broken and
my husband had to put them on for me they always felt wrong. I try to
imagine what it feels like to be so small and have to rely on others
for these types of things.
I also try to help her get her preference whenever I can. I try to
give her as much information beforehand so that she will not be
surprised. I will remind her more than once at a restaurant that her
sister is having grilled cheese, and ask her if she still wants pasta
before we order. Often she will switch her choice, often she will
not. This does reduce the number of occasions where she is
disappointed but doesn't eliminate them. Sometimes her sister will
share with her if she becomes really upset about her choice.
Sometimes she won't. We try to help her get what she wants, but
sometimes it is just not possible or at least not practical. Those
times she has to live with not having her choice. If she feels like
we have genuinely tried, she tends to be less upset. If she feels
like we are trying to push the unwanted item on her, like a cut
sandwich for example, she will become enraged. The more we push, the
angrier and more out of control she becomes. Usually there is a
solution. A new sandwich sometimes. Or a yogurt she can get from the
fridge herself, some almonds. We try to keep things which she will
eat readily around the house or packed to take with us. We try to
make her feel more in control when she starts acting like this, not
less in control. This tends to diffuse things.
Transitions are hard for her too. I try to talk to her
about how she will feel when it is time to leave before we even
arrive. We count down the time for longer i.e., swimming is half
over, is there anything that you want to do before we are done? we
have time for five more trips across the pool, we say bye to the pool, etc.
My older daughter (now six) went through many of these same
issues at 3 and 4 years. She now is pretty flexible about most things
and has ceased to be a 'picky eater' entirely. She has tremendous
empathy for her younger sister when she acts this way. I guess she
remembers what it felt like. When I get exasperated, my older
daughter reminds me of how important it is to her sister to have
things just so.
That said, my almost four year old is too little to go away from her
family for "several days" (for that matter so is my 6 year old:-)) .
Her behavior sounds to me like she really needs to connect. She needs
outside help to calm down. She needs to feel that she is safe and
that life is predictable. To me, that is what a tantrum is. Overload
and a cry for help. Maybe she just isn't ready for this type of
extended visit. If she does have to be away from home, maybe she
needs fewer transitions and more support in decision making. For some
a sandwich is just a sandwich i.e, my husband, others special order
every aspect of their meal down to tiny details i.e., me. Temperament
accounts for a lot.
warmly,
Emilie
At 02:31 PM 25/08/2007, you wrote:
>I can grasp all of the possible explanations for her behaviors, but
>I don't know how to HANDLE them.
[email protected]
Wow! That certainly sounds like a very, very challenging situation. I feel
for you on so many different levels. I think that your behavior was human
when you lost it. It can happen to the best of us when we are stretched
beyond our limits. Forgive yourself, and apologize to the child is all that you
can really do. Internalize that feeling, in hopes that it can help you in the
future. But, realize that you are human; and we all make mistakes that are
regrettable. ((((hugs)))))
I am wondering if we had more information, if we might be able to be more
help to you.
Specifically, why is the child staying away from her mother/father for that
period of time?
Is there some other conflict going on in her life? Divorce, parents
fighting, death of a person or animal, move, change in school, etc?
Is she often going from house to house; or day care to day care; or school
to school? ie is their a lot of change in who watches her?
Also, have you asked the mother how she would like you to handle the
situations?
I will also add that you need to keep your own needs in mind. No one says
that you "have" to watch this child. It sounds like you have your hands full
with a 4 year old and a 10 month old.
I do think that this child needs connection, not isolation; though. But, I
don't know that someone else watching this child will be capable of meeting
that need in such a short period of time. If you have read "Playful
Parenting", those skills may work the quickest for short fixes.....but, it requires a
lot of imagination and energy, which you certainly may not have with how full
your plate is at this point.
Good luck!
Warmly,
Cynthia
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
for you on so many different levels. I think that your behavior was human
when you lost it. It can happen to the best of us when we are stretched
beyond our limits. Forgive yourself, and apologize to the child is all that you
can really do. Internalize that feeling, in hopes that it can help you in the
future. But, realize that you are human; and we all make mistakes that are
regrettable. ((((hugs)))))
I am wondering if we had more information, if we might be able to be more
help to you.
Specifically, why is the child staying away from her mother/father for that
period of time?
Is there some other conflict going on in her life? Divorce, parents
fighting, death of a person or animal, move, change in school, etc?
Is she often going from house to house; or day care to day care; or school
to school? ie is their a lot of change in who watches her?
Also, have you asked the mother how she would like you to handle the
situations?
I will also add that you need to keep your own needs in mind. No one says
that you "have" to watch this child. It sounds like you have your hands full
with a 4 year old and a 10 month old.
I do think that this child needs connection, not isolation; though. But, I
don't know that someone else watching this child will be capable of meeting
that need in such a short period of time. If you have read "Playful
Parenting", those skills may work the quickest for short fixes.....but, it requires a
lot of imagination and energy, which you certainly may not have with how full
your plate is at this point.
Good luck!
Warmly,
Cynthia
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]