Jen

Kelly, A couple of your recent posts have really hit home with me. I
wanted to add my 2 cents and pose a question or two. First, though,
I'll introduce myself as I've been lurking for months. We live in MD
and have been homeschooling since Oct. 2005. Thomas had just started
3rd grade and the same old junk was happening so he and Ally(1st grade)
came home. Brian(4) was in a wonderful nursery school and he loved it
so he stayed. If only public schools were like that nursery school. BIG
SIGH! Fast forward to now. Thomas has decided to return to ps for
5th grade. I don't want him to but I'm supportive of his decision. He
is a bright kid, and did well, by school standards. While in school,
his behaviour at home was a nightmare - all the stress from the school
day came out as aggression and anger toward us. He really relaxed as we
de-schooled for 4 months and seemed to enjoy our homeschool routine
(school-at-home) for a couple months in 2006. At that point he began to
rebel against schoolwork so I researched unschooling, joined a yahoo
group, did lots of reading and we moved towards the unschooling. But
he was lost. Without the structure of a school day he felt his days
were wasted and any attempt on my part to engage him resulted in
meltdowns and lashing out. He viewed it as me trying to 'teach' him
something. Honestly, I was trying to help him work through it all - to
give some direction to his day so he wouldn't feel wasted. So, I waited
for him to engage me, to ask me to do something. He always wanted me to
read to him, so read, read, read, is what I did. I felt like I was
ignoring the younger 2 but they were content to play with each other and
when they needed me, Thomas was ok with "I'll be back in 10 minutes."
Usually he'd read ahead in the book and I'd have to catch-up . This
lasted for about 6 months - somedays we'd build Lego or he'd tell me
about his comics. He'd spend hours on Club Penguin, or he'd read by
himself. He did a SpongeBob keyboarding game so he could IM his cousins
without me. I could tell he was healing. Then one day he announced
that he wasn't ever going to do math. He was going to be a
grocer-bagger because they don't need math. No problem. Then he started
saving money for a DS Lite. He asked how much grocer-baggers made. He
realized he'd need a better paying job as an adult( I know, far in the
future, but that's how he thinks), so he decided to be a chef - "I'll
only do fractions and measurements!" He made chicken cacciatore,
angelfood cake, beef barley soup, peppermint brownies - nothing easy,
and he did it pretty much on his own. His cooking phase lasted a couple
months. Then he got restless again - teasing, bugging, wandering, etc.
I didn't know what to do to help him. Eventually he told us he felt
like he was stupid, like he didn't do anything all day, that he was
behind all his friends in school. He'd cry that he wanted go back -
maybe, maybe not. Then one day this past June, he announced that he
was going back to school this fall. Since he's made the decision he has
been much calmer, happier, and settled. I don't know how long he'll
stay in school - he hated it! But he's made a decision he's happy with
and he leave 5th gr. and come back to homeschooling. Your comment
You weren't unschooling. You were just letting him be while you did
other things. Unschooling is about trusting that he will learn when he
is ready. That INCLUDES reading and math. in response to Tyra's post
really hit home with me because that was me! I did let him be while I
did my own thing, but lots of reading (here and various books) helped me
to see that. And now, I do trust that he will learn whatever when he's
ready/wants. He and I have talked about it endlessly, but he doesn't
trust himself. How do I get him to that point? And this one No, he
hates being having his mother as his teacher. A very common
problem in school-at-home families. Standards are high, pressure is
high, and child feels like crap because he can't please his own mom---OR
even complain to his mom and dad that his teacher sucks. was also true
for us. My goodness! It's painful to realize. He hated having me as
his teacher - he said so a million times, but I never thought about the
2nd part (feeling like crap 'cause he can't complain) Talk about being
hit over the head with a sledgehammer! I didn't realize how awful it
was for him. There was no safe outlet for his frustration and anger -
we were together all the time and I was constantly harping on him - poor
guy! And now that I'm not going to be his teacher, he can love me
again, as his mom - only his mom! It makes so much sense. I must
remember to talk to him about this when he gets home from camp. I don't
want him to stay in school because it is the lesser of the two evils. I
want him to come home and enjoy our time together as a family.
there is a LOT of teaching going on in schools during this time; and
since the students are still in a learning mode, they'll seem to know so
much more than your own, unschooled kids. What's good to keep im mind is
that they aren't RETAINING much of this! Sure, they can regurgitate a
bunch of facts, but it's not really learning that sticks. our children
are *absorbing* HUGE amounts of
facts and figures and ...schtuff! But it's not yet regurgitable. <G>
Here: Schooled kids are *swallowing* the info and spitting it back out.
YOUR kids are DIGESTING a lot of the same material---it's becoming part
of them---just like longer bones and more skin and bigger teeth. But
your children's knowledge won't show up
as....something.....*Tangible*!...until quite a while afterwards. It
has taken me the past 2 years to understand the truth of this! How can
I help him recognize the truth of this? Where he realizes that he
doesn't need a school schedule to learn these things, that his schooled
friends only know that stuff 'in the now' but it's meaningless to them
and it was torture for many of them. I know this is long - sorry!
Thank you so much for this group! I am so fortunate to have you all to
give advice, kick me the butt, pick me up and put me back on the
unschooling path. Jen





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[email protected]

Jen,
I'm a former MD'er myself! Where are you located?
I didn't here you mention getting out and involved with any local HSing groups. Are you doing that?
Elissa
"No matter who or what made you what you have become, that doesn't release you from the
responsibility of making yourself over into what you ought to be." ~Ashley Montagu
http://www.myspace.com/elissajillcleaveland

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Jen Anderson

We live just north of Baltimore.

We are involved with a bunch of hsing groups - lots of field trips, classes, informal get-togethers. Thomas enjoys most of that and has met a couple good friends (both unschoolers) but at home he is 'lost' and I don't know how to help him get past the mindset of 'if I'm not in school learning then my day is wasted'. He will actively engage in 1:1 activities with me (like reading and lego, or building stuff in the garage, crafts), but with 2 other kids I can't do that all the time.

Jen

"MystikMomma@..." <MystikMomma@...> wrote:
Jen,
I'm a former MD'er myself! Where are you located?
I didn't here you mention getting out and involved with any local HSing groups. Are you doing that?
Elissa
"No matter who or what made you what you have become, that doesn't release you from the
responsibility of making yourself over into what you ought to be." ~Ashley Montagu
http://www.myspace.com/elissajillcleaveland

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Jen" <jen_d_anderson@...>
wrote:
>Without the structure of a school day he felt his days
were wasted and any attempt on my part to engage him resulted in
meltdowns and lashing out.
**************

It may be not so much that he needed "structure" as routine and
predictability. When Ray was younger he was much steadier with a
regular routine and lots of discussion about any variability. He
*liked* doing new things, but didn't deal very well with spur-of-the-
moment changes.

Nowadays I notice that when his routine has been really regular for a
few weeks he's much more willing to do things on the fly and make snap
decisions. When his routine is disrupted (it has been lately) he
gravitates toward what's most predictable in his world.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

Jen Anderson

Thanks Meredith,

I like that differentiation between structure and routine. You are right! Whenever we had a routine, he was better - more settled and calmer. And when the routine varies, he's usually adaptable, but if it is an ongoing interruption (i.e more that a couple days) it gets more difficult for him to deal with it. But he also gets bored with it after a couple weeks and then we need to change things around.

Can I ask what you did for a routine to help Ray feel settled? If I had suggestions for him from someone else, it may help him, rather than everything coming from me. Unfortunately, when we talk about setting up a routine, he meltsdown and tells me I'm trying to control him - sigh!


Jen



Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], "Jen" <jen_d_anderson@...>
wrote:
>Without the structure of a school day he felt his days
were wasted and any attempt on my part to engage him resulted in
meltdowns and lashing out.
**************

It may be not so much that he needed "structure" as routine and
predictability. When Ray was younger he was much steadier with a
regular routine and lots of discussion about any variability. He
*liked* doing new things, but didn't deal very well with spur-of-the-
moment changes.

Nowadays I notice that when his routine has been really regular for a
few weeks he's much more willing to do things on the fly and make snap
decisions. When his routine is disrupted (it has been lately) he
gravitates toward what's most predictable in his world.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

It may be not so much that he needed "structure" as routine and
predictability. When Ray was younger he was much steadier with a
regular routine and lots of discussion about any variability. He
*liked* doing new things, but didn't deal very well with spur-of-the-
moment changes.

- Meridith.

Hey Meridith,

great distinction there. I find the same - it's not so much the structure,
but how stable or consistent we are as human beings towards our kids. I think
some parents themselves feel 'out of control' without lessons, so the kids
would respond to that by acting out, etc. I find that we can cover any "book
larnin'" as a choice we all make - I mean if we all decide to read together
and then discuss the book, etc. And my kids like to know what's happening
on any given day, or the day after - my daughter has learnt the days of the
week and tome by asking "What are we doing later?" and "What are we doing
tomorrow?". I admit that I don't ALWAYS know the answer to that question,
but I certainly think it helps the kids to know what is on the agenda, both
to look forward to things and make choices re - participation.

Cathy.

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Jen Anderson
<jen_d_anderson@...> wrote:
>> Can I ask what you did for a routine to help Ray feel settled?
If I had suggestions for him from someone else, it may help him,
rather than everything coming from me. Unfortunately, when we talk
about setting up a routine, he meltsdown and tells me I'm trying to
control him - sigh!
*******************

We never really suggested or "set up" a routine. It was more a
committment (mostly on my part) to doing things in a very
predictable, orderly way/sequence and discuss any changes with Ray
beforehand. *He* had to be free to do things his own way within my
routine. I arranged my own routine around his needs, mostly wrt
food - making meals and offerring snacks at regular intervals.
Breakfast became our time to check in and discuss any variations in
the day's routine, trips to the store or whatnot.

With Ray, predictability extended to "a place for everything and
everything in its place". If he had to hunt for something, he was
more out-of-sorts in general. If he had to hunt for something *and*
he was hungry or tired, it was a lot more likely he'd meltdown. This
is waaaay less of an issue nowadays, but some of that may be that
George and I are pretty well "trained" at this point, especially in
the kitchen.

So maybe with your son you could talk about wanting to have more of
a routine for yourself and asking for his input. What sorts of
things do you do that he likes? dislikes? For instance, does he like
to come and wake you up, or would he rather get up to find mom
already awake and doing something? Does he like to talk about things
first thing in the morning? right before going to bed? some other
time?

Think about your routine as a framework - like a jungle-gym. Meals
and check-ins and sleep form the structure, but he can climb in and
around and over it, and even jump off if he wants.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)