having a bit of a panic attack here!
Tina Bragdon
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschooling family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards- sense)
I have a just turned 7 yr old and 4 yr old. I try to focus on living a
joyful life with them, to remember as Joyce Fetterol on her site says
the 3 R's will come about as they are tools obtained as a result of
kids just living life and doing what they are interested in and not
always to be taught separately out of context. I feel so confused right
now. Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling lessons
as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actual
physical act of it is tedious to her. She has a basic math sense in
terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN to
compute/calculate, and of course it worries me when she has friends who
spent an hour everyday in school playing with manipulatives, learning
the concept of adding up to 18, etc. I guess I am thinking that she
will still be counting on fingers at 18! I see her picking up reading
by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it isn't a
smooth process for her. Ds has just been diagnosed with global
developmental delay, (is at a 18 mo to two year old level in his speech
and gross motor skills for example still crawls up stairs)
and is being sent for genetic testingand a MRI of the brain due to some
physical features he has...we are starting down the road of
physio/ot/speech therapy for him, so far have been lucky to find people
who understand I don't want him pushed. I wanted to learn some "tools"
especially from physio for helping him at home, but feel like I am now
straddling a line between him being judged according to a certain
standard and trying to honor him for who he is and work with his
strengths.
I guess I just have problems lately not judging them by school
standards, of believing I am not doing a disservice to them. I try to
live "engaged and mindful" of them, but am feeling burned out and
doubtful in a way, like I am not "doing enough" especially with them,
talking aobut what we are seeing on tv instead of fretting they are
watching too much etc, like we are just coasting, I am not bringing
enough into their lives, that if ds is regarded as "special needs" (god
I hate that word but couldn't think of anything better) my
homeschooling would be judged.
I wanted to post here for some words of wisdom and reassurance...how to
get this school thinking out of my head. How to stop wanting to get
Math-u-see for dd as she is so hands on (of COURSE I would use it as a
tool, not "make" her do it everyday but have it around so that if
questions come up....insert big sarcastic grin here...) but woldn't
that only be satisfying my own need to have control and "proof of
results" that I am "doing something". I have horriible visions of
mental lists of mine of "goals" for them, instead of living just
joyfully and happilly! AUUUGH! I thought I had got unschooling but
obviously have areas to make mental shifts.
Help anyone!?!!? Sorry this might not make sense as I am typing it in
a hurry.
Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie and ds Jonathan here in Manitoba Canada
unschooler/unschooling family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards- sense)
I have a just turned 7 yr old and 4 yr old. I try to focus on living a
joyful life with them, to remember as Joyce Fetterol on her site says
the 3 R's will come about as they are tools obtained as a result of
kids just living life and doing what they are interested in and not
always to be taught separately out of context. I feel so confused right
now. Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling lessons
as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actual
physical act of it is tedious to her. She has a basic math sense in
terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN to
compute/calculate, and of course it worries me when she has friends who
spent an hour everyday in school playing with manipulatives, learning
the concept of adding up to 18, etc. I guess I am thinking that she
will still be counting on fingers at 18! I see her picking up reading
by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it isn't a
smooth process for her. Ds has just been diagnosed with global
developmental delay, (is at a 18 mo to two year old level in his speech
and gross motor skills for example still crawls up stairs)
and is being sent for genetic testingand a MRI of the brain due to some
physical features he has...we are starting down the road of
physio/ot/speech therapy for him, so far have been lucky to find people
who understand I don't want him pushed. I wanted to learn some "tools"
especially from physio for helping him at home, but feel like I am now
straddling a line between him being judged according to a certain
standard and trying to honor him for who he is and work with his
strengths.
I guess I just have problems lately not judging them by school
standards, of believing I am not doing a disservice to them. I try to
live "engaged and mindful" of them, but am feeling burned out and
doubtful in a way, like I am not "doing enough" especially with them,
talking aobut what we are seeing on tv instead of fretting they are
watching too much etc, like we are just coasting, I am not bringing
enough into their lives, that if ds is regarded as "special needs" (god
I hate that word but couldn't think of anything better) my
homeschooling would be judged.
I wanted to post here for some words of wisdom and reassurance...how to
get this school thinking out of my head. How to stop wanting to get
Math-u-see for dd as she is so hands on (of COURSE I would use it as a
tool, not "make" her do it everyday but have it around so that if
questions come up....insert big sarcastic grin here...) but woldn't
that only be satisfying my own need to have control and "proof of
results" that I am "doing something". I have horriible visions of
mental lists of mine of "goals" for them, instead of living just
joyfully and happilly! AUUUGH! I thought I had got unschooling but
obviously have areas to make mental shifts.
Help anyone!?!!? Sorry this might not make sense as I am typing it in
a hurry.
Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie and ds Jonathan here in Manitoba Canada
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Tina Bragdon"
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
happening. Tune back in to what the kids are doing, saying,
watching, etc. That panicky feeling is getting in the way of
actually *seeing* and *hearing* what is happening - you're missing
the stuff that IS being learned because you're focusing on what
you're NOT seeing. KWIM?
only way easier than handwriting but also has Spellcheck (I work
with folks who don't do anything without Spellcheck!) or help her
with it however she wants if she wants. If the creative aspect is at
issue, offer to be her "secretary" - I've got pages and pages of
stories DS (9) has told - if it seems like it's going to be
a 'keeper' story (sometimes he's just running stream of
consciousness and other times he has an idea he wants to keep), I'll
grab paper and a pen and try to keep up (luckily, I can do a form
of "shorthand" so I can keep up most of the time). Then
I'll 'translate' it so DS can read it later. Again, step back and
see that learning IS happening, but it is happening the same way she
digests that apple she had with her lunch - invisible to you,
invisible in many ways to her as well, but happening nonetheless.
fingers at times (although many of them move to pocket calculators
and such). You'd really be surprised at what she organically knows -
it just doesn't show up until/unless she needs it. Why does a 7 yr
old really NEED to do written done, drilled "arithmetic problems"?
Currently, at our house, 9 yr old never schooled DS has recently
expressed a desire to focus more on number skills (way long story
behind that short phrase). His choice is for me to write out a
Number Question of the Day for him. When I get home from work, he
shows me the answer (sometimes he works it out himself, sometimes he
asks DH for assistance). It's been 4 days and so far I've learned
that he has a deep, organic grasp of concepts that are not
normally 'taught' until somewhere around 7th grade while at the same
time still using fingers (and toes and nose) to handle basic
calculations. And that's fine. What he's learned is that he actually
DOES know "math", he just needed a reminder about it. For instance,
one of the earlier questions I posed was "If you are 9 now and can
get a driver's license at 16, how many years until you can drive a
car?" Now, most likely you and I would go 16-9=7, right? However, DS
explained to me that the way he got that answer was as follows:
9+9=18 (he knows that because it's double his age, anything with a
personal reference point 'sticks' well)
16 is 2 less than 18
Therefore, if he removes 2 from one of the 9s, that makes 7, which
is the answer
[which is also basic algebraic thinking - doing the same thing to
both sides of the equation]
stops and starts and forward and back - learning is NOT a linear
thing, despite what we've been trained to think.
is "enough"? How many "field trips" is "enough"? Get where I'm
going? What is "plenty" for us may be "not enough" for you and vice
versa. And what is "plenty" today might be "not enough" tomorrow
even with the same child. Again, getting back to food analogies,
sometimes I want MOUNDS of strawberries and other times, just a
small handful and other times, no thanks. So, consider carefully
what you're using as your measure of "enough". Do the kids seem like
they're content or are they a bit fidgety lately? Maybe you are in a
rut and need a jolt, a trip to a different park, different grocery
store, pick up some inexpensive bright colored somethings to play
with together, have a different arrangement to your day (have
pancakes for dinner, wear your underwear outside your clothing,
whatever).
your time focused on what they AREN'T doing, likely you're also not
exploring what you are drawn to as well. Pick up an old hobby or get
a new one - doesn't have to be something you do really well, just
something you love or have wondered about for a while. Wear fuchsia!
Read a different genre than usual! Walk around the block
counterclockwise instead of clockwise! Like they say, be
interesting - to your own self. Have you ever gone to the video
store and seen the signs "if you liked x, try these" and they have a
shelf of related movies (same director, actors, theme/genre, etc) -
well, go for it - pick up that other movie that's by the same
director or whatever. Look at what the kids are loving and hit the
library and dollar store and wherever for related stuff to have on
hand (not require, just 'strew' it about). Find cartoons that are by
the same animators or have a similar animation style; find books
that incorporate those characters (Dora, Spongebob, Jimmy Neutron,
etc all have short books in the "learning to read" section of the
bookstore for maybe $3 each); find Dora color Legos (they actually
have pink Legos!), explore fairies or physics or Spanish or whatever.
It sounds as though the fears that come with having a non-"typical"
child are permeating your whole life. Take a breath. Have a cup of
tea. Catch this cyber {{HUG}}. Remember that acting from fear is not
acting, it's REacting. Instead of reacting, be pro-active. You're
doing what needs doing, advocating for your children, and it's great
that you're looking for ways to bring things home from various
therapies rather than simply throwing up your hands and letting
the "experts" do whatever they want. Let yourself *grieve* for the
things you expected that now may have changed. Life will go on no
matter what - which path will you take to the next minute, and the
next, and the next?
--Deb
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
>That's when it's good to stop looking and join in whatever is
> Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as
>an
> unschooler/unschooling family? When you feel the kids
> aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a
>measureable-
> by-school-standards- sense)
happening. Tune back in to what the kids are doing, saying,
watching, etc. That panicky feeling is getting in the way of
actually *seeing* and *hearing* what is happening - you're missing
the stuff that IS being learned because you're focusing on what
you're NOT seeing. KWIM?
> I have a just turned 7 yr old and 4 yr old. ...Okay, so give her access to MS Word on the computer - which is not
> the 3 R's will come about as they are tools obtained as a result
>of
> kids just living life and doing what they are interested in and
>not
> always to be taught separately out of context. I feel so confused
>right
> now.
>Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling lessons
> as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actual
> physical act of it is tedious to her.
only way easier than handwriting but also has Spellcheck (I work
with folks who don't do anything without Spellcheck!) or help her
with it however she wants if she wants. If the creative aspect is at
issue, offer to be her "secretary" - I've got pages and pages of
stories DS (9) has told - if it seems like it's going to be
a 'keeper' story (sometimes he's just running stream of
consciousness and other times he has an idea he wants to keep), I'll
grab paper and a pen and try to keep up (luckily, I can do a form
of "shorthand" so I can keep up most of the time). Then
I'll 'translate' it so DS can read it later. Again, step back and
see that learning IS happening, but it is happening the same way she
digests that apple she had with her lunch - invisible to you,
invisible in many ways to her as well, but happening nonetheless.
>She has a basic math sense inAnd the problem with that is...? I know adults that still use
> terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN
>to
> compute/calculate, and of course it worries me when she has
>friends who
> spent an hour everyday in school playing with manipulatives,
>learning
> the concept of adding up to 18, etc. I guess I am thinking that
>she
> will still be counting on fingers at 18!
fingers at times (although many of them move to pocket calculators
and such). You'd really be surprised at what she organically knows -
it just doesn't show up until/unless she needs it. Why does a 7 yr
old really NEED to do written done, drilled "arithmetic problems"?
Currently, at our house, 9 yr old never schooled DS has recently
expressed a desire to focus more on number skills (way long story
behind that short phrase). His choice is for me to write out a
Number Question of the Day for him. When I get home from work, he
shows me the answer (sometimes he works it out himself, sometimes he
asks DH for assistance). It's been 4 days and so far I've learned
that he has a deep, organic grasp of concepts that are not
normally 'taught' until somewhere around 7th grade while at the same
time still using fingers (and toes and nose) to handle basic
calculations. And that's fine. What he's learned is that he actually
DOES know "math", he just needed a reminder about it. For instance,
one of the earlier questions I posed was "If you are 9 now and can
get a driver's license at 16, how many years until you can drive a
car?" Now, most likely you and I would go 16-9=7, right? However, DS
explained to me that the way he got that answer was as follows:
9+9=18 (he knows that because it's double his age, anything with a
personal reference point 'sticks' well)
16 is 2 less than 18
Therefore, if he removes 2 from one of the 9s, that makes 7, which
is the answer
[which is also basic algebraic thinking - doing the same thing to
both sides of the equation]
>I see her picking up readingIt *won't* be a "smooth" process - it will have bumps and jumps and
> by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it
>isn't a
> smooth process for her.
stops and starts and forward and back - learning is NOT a linear
thing, despite what we've been trained to think.
> like I am not "doing enough" especially with them,What exactly is "enough"? How much time is "enough"? How many books
is "enough"? How many "field trips" is "enough"? Get where I'm
going? What is "plenty" for us may be "not enough" for you and vice
versa. And what is "plenty" today might be "not enough" tomorrow
even with the same child. Again, getting back to food analogies,
sometimes I want MOUNDS of strawberries and other times, just a
small handful and other times, no thanks. So, consider carefully
what you're using as your measure of "enough". Do the kids seem like
they're content or are they a bit fidgety lately? Maybe you are in a
rut and need a jolt, a trip to a different park, different grocery
store, pick up some inexpensive bright colored somethings to play
with together, have a different arrangement to your day (have
pancakes for dinner, wear your underwear outside your clothing,
whatever).
> I am not bringingWhat are you bringing into your own life? If you're spending ALL
> enough into their lives,
your time focused on what they AREN'T doing, likely you're also not
exploring what you are drawn to as well. Pick up an old hobby or get
a new one - doesn't have to be something you do really well, just
something you love or have wondered about for a while. Wear fuchsia!
Read a different genre than usual! Walk around the block
counterclockwise instead of clockwise! Like they say, be
interesting - to your own self. Have you ever gone to the video
store and seen the signs "if you liked x, try these" and they have a
shelf of related movies (same director, actors, theme/genre, etc) -
well, go for it - pick up that other movie that's by the same
director or whatever. Look at what the kids are loving and hit the
library and dollar store and wherever for related stuff to have on
hand (not require, just 'strew' it about). Find cartoons that are by
the same animators or have a similar animation style; find books
that incorporate those characters (Dora, Spongebob, Jimmy Neutron,
etc all have short books in the "learning to read" section of the
bookstore for maybe $3 each); find Dora color Legos (they actually
have pink Legos!), explore fairies or physics or Spanish or whatever.
It sounds as though the fears that come with having a non-"typical"
child are permeating your whole life. Take a breath. Have a cup of
tea. Catch this cyber {{HUG}}. Remember that acting from fear is not
acting, it's REacting. Instead of reacting, be pro-active. You're
doing what needs doing, advocating for your children, and it's great
that you're looking for ways to bring things home from various
therapies rather than simply throwing up your hands and letting
the "experts" do whatever they want. Let yourself *grieve* for the
things you expected that now may have changed. Life will go on no
matter what - which path will you take to the next minute, and the
next, and the next?
--Deb
Cameron Parham
Tina, I really get this. I wait eagerly for replies. Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 10:29:25 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] having a bit of a panic attack here!
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
I have a just turned 7 yr old and 4 yr old. I try to focus on living a
joyful life with them, to remember as Joyce Fetterol on her site says
the 3 R's will come about as they are tools obtained as a result of
kids just living life and doing what they are interested in and not
always to be taught separately out of context. I feel so confused right
now. Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling lessons
as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actual
physical act of it is tedious to her. She has a basic math sense in
terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN to
compute/calculate, and of course it worries me when she has friends who
spent an hour everyday in school playing with manipulatives, learning
the concept of adding up to 18, etc. I guess I am thinking that she
will still be counting on fingers at 18! I see her picking up reading
by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it isn't a
smooth process for her. Ds has just been diagnosed with global
developmental delay, (is at a 18 mo to two year old level in his speech
and gross motor skills for example still crawls up stairs)
and is being sent for genetic testingand a MRI of the brain due to some
physical features he has...we are starting down the road of
physio/ot/speech therapy for him, so far have been lucky to find people
who understand I don't want him pushed. I wanted to learn some "tools"
especially from physio for helping him at home, but feel like I am now
straddling a line between him being judged according to a certain
standard and trying to honor him for who he is and work with his
strengths.
I guess I just have problems lately not judging them by school
standards, of believing I am not doing a disservice to them. I try to
live "engaged and mindful" of them, but am feeling burned out and
doubtful in a way, like I am not "doing enough" especially with them,
talking aobut what we are seeing on tv instead of fretting they are
watching too much etc, like we are just coasting, I am not bringing
enough into their lives, that if ds is regarded as "special needs" (god
I hate that word but couldn't think of anything better) my
homeschooling would be judged.
I wanted to post here for some words of wisdom and reassurance. ..how to
get this school thinking out of my head. How to stop wanting to get
Math-u-see for dd as she is so hands on (of COURSE I would use it as a
tool, not "make" her do it everyday but have it around so that if
questions come up....insert big sarcastic grin here...) but woldn't
that only be satisfying my own need to have control and "proof of
results" that I am "doing something". I have horriible visions of
mental lists of mine of "goals" for them, instead of living just
joyfully and happilly! AUUUGH! I thought I had got unschooling but
obviously have areas to make mental shifts.
Help anyone!?!!? Sorry this might not make sense as I am typing it in
a hurry.
Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie and ds Jonathan here in Manitoba Canada
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2007 10:29:25 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] having a bit of a panic attack here!
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
I have a just turned 7 yr old and 4 yr old. I try to focus on living a
joyful life with them, to remember as Joyce Fetterol on her site says
the 3 R's will come about as they are tools obtained as a result of
kids just living life and doing what they are interested in and not
always to be taught separately out of context. I feel so confused right
now. Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling lessons
as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actual
physical act of it is tedious to her. She has a basic math sense in
terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN to
compute/calculate, and of course it worries me when she has friends who
spent an hour everyday in school playing with manipulatives, learning
the concept of adding up to 18, etc. I guess I am thinking that she
will still be counting on fingers at 18! I see her picking up reading
by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it isn't a
smooth process for her. Ds has just been diagnosed with global
developmental delay, (is at a 18 mo to two year old level in his speech
and gross motor skills for example still crawls up stairs)
and is being sent for genetic testingand a MRI of the brain due to some
physical features he has...we are starting down the road of
physio/ot/speech therapy for him, so far have been lucky to find people
who understand I don't want him pushed. I wanted to learn some "tools"
especially from physio for helping him at home, but feel like I am now
straddling a line between him being judged according to a certain
standard and trying to honor him for who he is and work with his
strengths.
I guess I just have problems lately not judging them by school
standards, of believing I am not doing a disservice to them. I try to
live "engaged and mindful" of them, but am feeling burned out and
doubtful in a way, like I am not "doing enough" especially with them,
talking aobut what we are seeing on tv instead of fretting they are
watching too much etc, like we are just coasting, I am not bringing
enough into their lives, that if ds is regarded as "special needs" (god
I hate that word but couldn't think of anything better) my
homeschooling would be judged.
I wanted to post here for some words of wisdom and reassurance. ..how to
get this school thinking out of my head. How to stop wanting to get
Math-u-see for dd as she is so hands on (of COURSE I would use it as a
tool, not "make" her do it everyday but have it around so that if
questions come up....insert big sarcastic grin here...) but woldn't
that only be satisfying my own need to have control and "proof of
results" that I am "doing something". I have horriible visions of
mental lists of mine of "goals" for them, instead of living just
joyfully and happilly! AUUUGH! I thought I had got unschooling but
obviously have areas to make mental shifts.
Help anyone!?!!? Sorry this might not make sense as I am typing it in
a hurry.
Tina, dp James, dd Stephanie and ds Jonathan here in Manitoba Canada
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
I don't really panic about what my kids are doing/learning anymore,
but I did find that focusing on the fact that my kids are doing
everything *by choice* really helped me have a better sense of
perspective. Since we homeschooled Ray for a little while before he
went to live with his mom and go to school full time, I've had some
experience with the other side of that - knowing how *little* Ray
did by choice when he was being *required* helps shine a really
different light on the subject.
Nowadays I'm used to thinking this way, so I can celebrate Ray
*choosing* to do things that seem trivial or non-academic. Making up
a new kind of sandwich comes to mind. Seems like a little thing for
a 13yo, right?
--- In [email protected], "Tina Bragdon"
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
I have a gf who has been homeschooling her 7yo dd for two years now.
She's expected to write every day and its still a tedious process
for her. Recently her mom has started backing off on the "writing
requirements" bc her dd is starting to say she hates to write. Mom
has also dropped "spelling lessons" bc while her dd can spell in a
quiz format, she can't spell the same words when she goes to write a
sentence.
If your dd is writing bc she chooses to, that's fantastic. Pushing
her to do more won't necessarily improve her skills, and may well
alienate her from wanting to write at all.
fluid and experiential and so it doesn't "look" very much like the
way math is taught in schools. For example, on their own, kids often
learn about fractions before they add - and almost certainly before
they subtract. Exploring volume, btw, is part of that. While your dd
may not be able to express herself by means of saying "mom, I'd like
twenty percent more milk, please" I'll bet she can show you with her
fingers how much more she would like poured out. That's real-life
mathematical thinking, it just doesn't "look" like book-math.
and still counts on her fingers if she can't find a calculator. She
can quote the tax code left, right and center, but 7+9?
Computational aids have been available for millenia for a reason ;)
not a sequential process. Learning often happens in "spurts" - like
growing, but unlike growing, sometimes learning seems to go backward
for a little while and then springs forward a whole lot.
Those "backward" times can be really rich in terms of building
different kinds of connections, though. Times to integrate one kind
of learning into the whole self, maybe.
might be helpful for *you* to look at a few different math programs
and expand your own theoretical knowledge about math-learning. Kind
of depends on how *you* learn, though - it might just amp up your
own concerns.
As far as manipulatives go, do you have legos or other construction
toys? How about paint? Does she like to cook? Play in the mud?
Dance? Throw? Arrange things? Cut, glue and tape? Those all involve
math at a conceptual level and are pretty darn hands on.
some parents, periodic freak-outs seem to be a part of the learning
process ;) I don't know if that helps you feel any better, but it
helps *me* sometimes to be able to say "oh, yeah, this is the part
of the learning process where I get po'd and want to throw in the
towel".
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)
but I did find that focusing on the fact that my kids are doing
everything *by choice* really helped me have a better sense of
perspective. Since we homeschooled Ray for a little while before he
went to live with his mom and go to school full time, I've had some
experience with the other side of that - knowing how *little* Ray
did by choice when he was being *required* helps shine a really
different light on the subject.
Nowadays I'm used to thinking this way, so I can celebrate Ray
*choosing* to do things that seem trivial or non-academic. Making up
a new kind of sandwich comes to mind. Seems like a little thing for
a 13yo, right?
--- In [email protected], "Tina Bragdon"
<jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
>I feel so confused rightlessons
> now. Dd writes somewhat, we certainly never have had spelling
> as she spells a word here or there on her drawings, but the actualMaybe this will give you some perspective on the matter:
> physical act of it is tedious to her.
I have a gf who has been homeschooling her 7yo dd for two years now.
She's expected to write every day and its still a tedious process
for her. Recently her mom has started backing off on the "writing
requirements" bc her dd is starting to say she hates to write. Mom
has also dropped "spelling lessons" bc while her dd can spell in a
quiz format, she can't spell the same words when she goes to write a
sentence.
If your dd is writing bc she chooses to, that's fantastic. Pushing
her to do more won't necessarily improve her skills, and may well
alienate her from wanting to write at all.
> She has a basic math sense into
> terms of volume, bigger and smaller, etc but could not even BEGIN
> compute/calculateYou might be surprised. The way free kids learn about math is very
fluid and experiential and so it doesn't "look" very much like the
way math is taught in schools. For example, on their own, kids often
learn about fractions before they add - and almost certainly before
they subtract. Exploring volume, btw, is part of that. While your dd
may not be able to express herself by means of saying "mom, I'd like
twenty percent more milk, please" I'll bet she can show you with her
fingers how much more she would like poured out. That's real-life
mathematical thinking, it just doesn't "look" like book-math.
> I guess I am thinking that sheFWIW, that friend of mine I mentioned before is a CPA, almost 50yo
> will still be counting on fingers at 18!
and still counts on her fingers if she can't find a calculator. She
can quote the tax code left, right and center, but 7+9?
Computational aids have been available for millenia for a reason ;)
>I see her picking up readingisn't a
> by me reading to her, sounding out words when she asks, but it
> smooth process for her.Ahhhhh, a misconception! Learning isn't necessarily "smooth". Its
not a sequential process. Learning often happens in "spurts" - like
growing, but unlike growing, sometimes learning seems to go backward
for a little while and then springs forward a whole lot.
Those "backward" times can be really rich in terms of building
different kinds of connections, though. Times to integrate one kind
of learning into the whole self, maybe.
> How to stop wanting to getAll that being said, expecially if you're worried about math, it
> Math-u-see for dd as she is so hands on
might be helpful for *you* to look at a few different math programs
and expand your own theoretical knowledge about math-learning. Kind
of depends on how *you* learn, though - it might just amp up your
own concerns.
As far as manipulatives go, do you have legos or other construction
toys? How about paint? Does she like to cook? Play in the mud?
Dance? Throw? Arrange things? Cut, glue and tape? Those all involve
math at a conceptual level and are pretty darn hands on.
> I thought I had got unschooling butYeah, adults sometimes have to go backwards to learn, too. And for
> obviously have areas to make mental shifts.
some parents, periodic freak-outs seem to be a part of the learning
process ;) I don't know if that helps you feel any better, but it
helps *me* sometimes to be able to say "oh, yeah, this is the part
of the learning process where I get po'd and want to throw in the
towel".
---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...>
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
-=-=-=-=-
I KNOW it seems that the seven year old may not be learning anything (I
figure you can SEE the four year old's learning---it's still so rapid
and awesome!), but a lot of that has to do with the LARGE amount of
*teaching* that goes on in school at this age. If you think it's bad
now, just wait until the 5th, 6th, & 7th grade time period!
The problem is that there is a LOT of teaching going on in schools
during this time; and since the students are still in a learning mode,
they'll seem to know so much more than your own, unschooled kids.
What's good to keep im mind is that they aren't RETAINING much of this!
Sure, they can regurgitate a bunch of facts, but it's not really
learning that sticks. our children are *absorbing* HUGE amounts of
facts and figures and ...schtuff! But it's not yet regurgitable. <G>
Here: Schooled kids are *swallowing* the info and spitting it back out.
YOUR kids are DIGESTING a lot of the same material---it's becoming part
of them---just like longer bones and more skin and bigger teeth. But
your children's knowledge won't show up
as....something.....*Tangible*!...until quite a while afterwards. Can
you understand my analogy? I think it's a pretty good one. <G> I just
hope it's as good to others out there reading. <bwg>
Unschooled children's learning will show up months/years later when you
least expect it---just like that couple of inches your child grew last
summer---WHEN did that happen? Well, all along! It just wasn't as
noticable! Learning's sneaky like that! <G>
It really will look worse in "middle school"---the schooled kids will
see, themsleves, how much they are being taught---AND they are being
told how important this schtuff is. Some may throw it in your
unschooled child's face (which, as a parent, is REALLY hard to take!).
But if you can be patient for just a couple more years, the pay-off
hits---and hits HARD! THose very same kids who were so sure school was
THE answer will now start hating their teachers and school---and even
their parents for making them go to school! Worst of all, they learn to
hate learning! The tables will turn, and suddenly YOUR child is the one
with so much freedom and whose learning is finally tangible---you can
SEE the spark in his eyes and that there will never be enough time for
him to gobble up everything he wants to learn. The schooled schildren
are now jaded and *done* with learning---they're *full*, overstuffed,
loosening that belt-buckle so that *THEY * can just relax and digest
for a while. In fact. they have been giving NO time to digest what
they've learned. Twelve or more years of being crammed FULL! They've
been the goose, forced-fed until they're about to pop---no room for
*any* more facts. They quit. They won't be hungry for learning for a
long, long time!
I know how hard it is to be on the other side of that curve! It was
very painful to watch Cam when he was 13 & 14. But now *he* can see how
little his friends want to learn anything new. It's very sad, because
he knew them when they were creative, curious five year olds who
devoured all new things. They've stopped learning---they're just
surviing until they can refind/rediscover themselves.
The best advice I can give to look at some older schooled kids, som
eteens who have given up. Is that what you want for your child?
You KNOW your child is smart. You KNOW he finds joy in learnning. That
really needs to be enough right now. PLEASE don't let him lose that
thrill of learning! Just because he can't regurgitate like the schooled
kids---that's NOT a bad thing! Let him take things slowly (or fast---at
HIS pace) and digest as he goes! MUCH healthier for his brain's
"digestive" tract! <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...>
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
-=-=-=-=-
I KNOW it seems that the seven year old may not be learning anything (I
figure you can SEE the four year old's learning---it's still so rapid
and awesome!), but a lot of that has to do with the LARGE amount of
*teaching* that goes on in school at this age. If you think it's bad
now, just wait until the 5th, 6th, & 7th grade time period!
The problem is that there is a LOT of teaching going on in schools
during this time; and since the students are still in a learning mode,
they'll seem to know so much more than your own, unschooled kids.
What's good to keep im mind is that they aren't RETAINING much of this!
Sure, they can regurgitate a bunch of facts, but it's not really
learning that sticks. our children are *absorbing* HUGE amounts of
facts and figures and ...schtuff! But it's not yet regurgitable. <G>
Here: Schooled kids are *swallowing* the info and spitting it back out.
YOUR kids are DIGESTING a lot of the same material---it's becoming part
of them---just like longer bones and more skin and bigger teeth. But
your children's knowledge won't show up
as....something.....*Tangible*!...until quite a while afterwards. Can
you understand my analogy? I think it's a pretty good one. <G> I just
hope it's as good to others out there reading. <bwg>
Unschooled children's learning will show up months/years later when you
least expect it---just like that couple of inches your child grew last
summer---WHEN did that happen? Well, all along! It just wasn't as
noticable! Learning's sneaky like that! <G>
It really will look worse in "middle school"---the schooled kids will
see, themsleves, how much they are being taught---AND they are being
told how important this schtuff is. Some may throw it in your
unschooled child's face (which, as a parent, is REALLY hard to take!).
But if you can be patient for just a couple more years, the pay-off
hits---and hits HARD! THose very same kids who were so sure school was
THE answer will now start hating their teachers and school---and even
their parents for making them go to school! Worst of all, they learn to
hate learning! The tables will turn, and suddenly YOUR child is the one
with so much freedom and whose learning is finally tangible---you can
SEE the spark in his eyes and that there will never be enough time for
him to gobble up everything he wants to learn. The schooled schildren
are now jaded and *done* with learning---they're *full*, overstuffed,
loosening that belt-buckle so that *THEY * can just relax and digest
for a while. In fact. they have been giving NO time to digest what
they've learned. Twelve or more years of being crammed FULL! They've
been the goose, forced-fed until they're about to pop---no room for
*any* more facts. They quit. They won't be hungry for learning for a
long, long time!
I know how hard it is to be on the other side of that curve! It was
very painful to watch Cam when he was 13 & 14. But now *he* can see how
little his friends want to learn anything new. It's very sad, because
he knew them when they were creative, curious five year olds who
devoured all new things. They've stopped learning---they're just
surviing until they can refind/rediscover themselves.
The best advice I can give to look at some older schooled kids, som
eteens who have given up. Is that what you want for your child?
You KNOW your child is smart. You KNOW he finds joy in learnning. That
really needs to be enough right now. PLEASE don't let him lose that
thrill of learning! Just because he can't regurgitate like the schooled
kids---that's NOT a bad thing! Let him take things slowly (or fast---at
HIS pace) and digest as he goes! MUCH healthier for his brain's
"digestive" tract! <BWG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Lisa Heyman
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Bragdon < <mailto:jamesandtina942%40hotmail.com>
jamesandtina942@...>
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
-=-=-=-=-
Tina - if I am feeling the least bit doubtful I look at my kids and that
turns everything around. Are they happy, joyous and free (sounds like a 12
step slogan - yes)? Well my bench mark is their happiness. And if they are
not completely at ease with themselves or our life it is my responsibility
to do everything in my power to assist them in finding what they need to be
happy. But if they are happy - what do I have to fear. When fear hits -
take a moment and look at them with wonder and amazement. You will see they
are exactly where they are supposed to be and your love for them will
support them in the security they need to be ok with themselves. AND if I
am really stuck on the comparing to mainstream it is time to remove myself
from the mainstream environment that is undermining my own confidence and
stay close to fellows who follow a similar path.
Sometimes I feel like this unschooling world of ours is this little secret
that tickles my insides - unschooling makes me giddy.
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Tina Bragdon < <mailto:jamesandtina942%40hotmail.com>
jamesandtina942@...>
Help! What do you do when you feel panicky about your "rhythm" as an
unschooler/unschool ing family? When you feel the kids
aren't "learning " anything (because it isn't always in a measureable-
by-school-standards - sense)
-=-=-=-=-
Tina - if I am feeling the least bit doubtful I look at my kids and that
turns everything around. Are they happy, joyous and free (sounds like a 12
step slogan - yes)? Well my bench mark is their happiness. And if they are
not completely at ease with themselves or our life it is my responsibility
to do everything in my power to assist them in finding what they need to be
happy. But if they are happy - what do I have to fear. When fear hits -
take a moment and look at them with wonder and amazement. You will see they
are exactly where they are supposed to be and your love for them will
support them in the security they need to be ok with themselves. AND if I
am really stuck on the comparing to mainstream it is time to remove myself
from the mainstream environment that is undermining my own confidence and
stay close to fellows who follow a similar path.
Sometimes I feel like this unschooling world of ours is this little secret
that tickles my insides - unschooling makes me giddy.
Lisa Heyman
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
riasplace3
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
old video made of my kids when my oldest was newly 5 and younger was
3. My oldest dd spouted facts like a trivia game gone wild. My
sister was watching it, and said something about how her 5 1/2 year
old doesn't know nearly so much. I laughed....I told her I could
have taught her(dd) to spout algebaeric equations (although I
couldn't teach her how to spell it)but it wouldn't have meant any
thing to her, and she would have forgotten it all by now anyway.
When I feel like my neices and nephews are learning more and feel
panic-y, I just remind myself they won't remember any of it in a
week. And considering that the teacher's around here teach ONLY what
is on the end-of-the-year test (for NCLB...we've got the top-rated
schools in the area! But the kids know only what's on that freakin'
test. As one teacher told a student, "I'm sorry, we can't do Egypt,
it's not on our test this year.) Bleah.
And my train of thought derailed with that, so I'll end. ; P
Ria
> The problem is that there is a LOT of teaching going on in schoolsmode,
> during this time; and since the students are still in a learning
> they'll seem to know so much more than your own, unschooled kids.this!
> What's good to keep im mind is that they aren't RETAINING much of
>This made me think of a DVD I watched a couple days ago. It was an
old video made of my kids when my oldest was newly 5 and younger was
3. My oldest dd spouted facts like a trivia game gone wild. My
sister was watching it, and said something about how her 5 1/2 year
old doesn't know nearly so much. I laughed....I told her I could
have taught her(dd) to spout algebaeric equations (although I
couldn't teach her how to spell it)but it wouldn't have meant any
thing to her, and she would have forgotten it all by now anyway.
When I feel like my neices and nephews are learning more and feel
panic-y, I just remind myself they won't remember any of it in a
week. And considering that the teacher's around here teach ONLY what
is on the end-of-the-year test (for NCLB...we've got the top-rated
schools in the area! But the kids know only what's on that freakin'
test. As one teacher told a student, "I'm sorry, we can't do Egypt,
it's not on our test this year.) Bleah.
And my train of thought derailed with that, so I'll end. ; P
Ria
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/7/2007 6:32:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Lmanathome@... writes:
But if they are happy - what do I have to fear. When fear hits -
take a moment and look at them with wonder and amazement.
____________________________________________________________
And to add to that, 2 of my favorite quotes I keep with me in my wallet:
"...and don't wear Fear, or nobody with know you're there." Cat Stevens
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to
hate, and Hate leads to suffering." Yoda
Good stuff :)
Karen
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lmanathome@... writes:
But if they are happy - what do I have to fear. When fear hits -
take a moment and look at them with wonder and amazement.
____________________________________________________________
And to add to that, 2 of my favorite quotes I keep with me in my wallet:
"...and don't wear Fear, or nobody with know you're there." Cat Stevens
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to
hate, and Hate leads to suffering." Yoda
Good stuff :)
Karen
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]