Lisa Blocker

How's that for a subject line??? Ok this is my situation... I have posted here before about our friend B who visits our home very often. We have always had pleasant visits until this summer there have been several issues when she's visited. Basically this is a child of a school teacher ... at home she has no freedom... she is told what to do every minute of the day. Her mother constantly threatens her with taking her phone away, shutting down her My Space page etc ... never any follow through so this kid knows her mother can't be bothered. This mother even has a thing on their computer that requires her to log the kids on and then they have only 1 1/2 hrs a day in summer and less in school time of computer time a day.... in 30 minute increments...it even counts down and cuts them off when the time is gone!!! That would just piss me off!

Anyway ... this week B is here with Anna going to the zookeeper camp that they had to reschedule because Anna was sick when they were scheduled earlier in the summer. Each night when my girls try to settle down and go to sleep B is still up talking on her cell phone and texting a boy she met at another camp this summer... when they ask her to please shut down for the night she continues to text (which still makes a noise and is disturbing). Mostly I don't care that she stays up on her phone or that she texts her friends(if she would go elsewhere and not disturb others)... my problem comes in that when it's time to get up she can barely get up, during camp she is falling asleep when they have speakers or do any type of sit down quietly and listen type thing. Anna is feeling like B is being disrespectful of the people putting on the camp and the speakers coming into speak and somewhat like the staff expect her to poke B and wake her up. She is
frustrated ... I am not sure how to make her feel better ... we have talked about how B never gets to make any decisions and is just testing the limits so to speak and not sure what to do when there are no limits.

I do NOT want to tell this kid to go to bed or to take her phone away because I wouldn't want to be treated that way but I am unsure what to do. Each night I always tell them good night and remind them that everyone upstairs is going to sleep (I can never hear my girls ...their bedroom and tv room is in our basement but when B is here I can always hear her, she is one of those kids with a voice and laugh that really carry) and ask them to please try to keep it down so they don't wake the littles up. I also remind them they have to get up early and ask what they want for their lunchboxes the next day.
My kids usually take this as a cue to gear down for the night... they either go to bed shortly thereafter or snuggle down in their room with a book. Oh jeez this is the other thing... B has a summer reading assignment with her ... her mother calls her every night to ask if she is reading and threatens to take away her phone etc if she doesn't get it done AND wants ME to POLICE her about this book!!! UGH!

So how do you guys handle it when you have a visiting non-unschooled kid that doesn't know how to be respected and how to self regulate? I mean if she was here ALL summer she would figure it out and she does when she comes and stays for a longer period of time she does start to calm down and figure out that no one is going to force her to go to bed or make her eat, or limit her eating (the chemical laden food her mother brought for her to have for her lunches is a whole OTHER conversation! what developing body needs drinks full of artificial sweeteners?? even her water has Splenda!) . I have had alot of good conversations with this child but she's very different this year... she seems bent on rebelling and just basically being difficult.. it worries me about her future. I know she feels untrusted at home, that she feels penned in and squashed so I don't want to make my home a place that doesn't respect her either! At the same time I am unhappy
about her behavior at the camp because it just isn't respectful, now I will say that no one at the camp has complained... they are very laid back and great with the kids. Perhaps I am just making too much of it! I guess I feel frustrated because this is such a cool kid and if she could just spend more time being respected and honored and treated gently she could really shine. I just can't being myself to heap any negative energy on her head when she already gets so much at home!
Lisa Blocker




____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Blocker <jlblock01@...>

So how do you guys handle it when you have a visiting non-unschooled
kid that
doesn't know how to be respected and how to self regulate?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I have had to do this too many times to mention. All of Cameron's
friends were schooled.

I take them in another room and gently, but *FIRMLY* tell them that I
will NOT allow that in my home. That their presence in my house is a
privilege. That I can *quickly* have their butts in the car and be on
my way to their own homes. That I will be happy to remind them when
they are being asses, but that I will not tolerate it one more miinute.

If they are willing to accept my terms, they are most welcome to stay
in my home. If they are not, we can leave right this minute.

Most have never been treated so well, so they make the decision then
and there to start acting like a responsible, respectable human. A
couple needed a few reminders. Only one asked to go home. He came back
and apologized a week later and asked to be allowed back our home.

I can't imagine letting it go so long. I won't have my home an uhappy
place for my family. It's the only place I *can* control.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

wuweimama

--- In [email protected], Lisa Blocker <jlblock01@...>
wrote:
>> Mostly I don't care that she stays up on her phone or that she
texts her friends(if she would go elsewhere and not disturb others)...>>

What is the reason she doesn't agree to moving to a less disturbing
location? Is there some location which isn't "alone/scary", perhaps?
Could you discuss the issues during the day about how you prefer
everyone's needs to be honored and work with her to find solutions? Is
it possible that she needs more time to wind down in the evening?
Perhaps she is a night owl? I find that connecting with the needs
helps to create possibilities. Children are incredibly creative
problem solvers, ime.


<<<my problem comes in that when it's time to get up she can barely
get up, during camp she is falling asleep when they have speakers or
do any type of sit down quietly and listen type thing. >>

Is she wanting to go to camp? Or just wanting to get away from her
parents for the time? Is there a way that she could go in later? Part
of the day? Leave early? If she is there with your facilitation, I'd
do the same as with my own child: problem solve to meet their needs.

<< Anna is feeling like B is being disrespectful of the people putting
on the camp and the speakers coming into speak and somewhat like the
staff expect her to poke B and wake her up. >>

I would listen and validate Anna's concerns and see how she would like
to address it with B, or with the counselors. Or perhaps, she would
like you to speak up on her behalf that Anna isn't responsible for her
friend's behavior. Could you facilitate Anna discussing her feelings
with B regarding how she would like to be treated? I believe that
empowering Anna would be my focus.



<< She is> frustrated ... I am not sure how to make her feel better
... we have talked about how B never gets to make any decisions and is
just testing the limits so to speak and not sure what to do when there
are no limits.>>

This does sound like useful information to share with her about how it
is difficult and different at B's house. Perhaps, having a discussion
which validates B's difficulties would create more connection with
your concerns. I find that nurturing connection is the most effective
way to have our connection nurtured in return.


>
> I do NOT want to tell this kid to go to bed or to take her phone
away because I wouldn't want to be treated that way but I am unsure
what to do. Each night I always tell them good night and remind them
that everyone upstairs is going to sleep (I can never hear my girls
...their bedroom and tv room is in our basement but when B is here I
can always hear her, she is one of those kids with a voice and laugh
that really carry) and ask them to please try to keep it down so they
don't wake the littles up.>>

Could you create an outside area for loud conversations which is well
lighted, visible and not as noisy? Assuming you are still up? Or is it
really not comfortable for you to have guests outside because you need
to get to bed also? I would certainly discuss my needs for sleep with
any guests and explain we want for us each to be able to get what we
need in our family. Ask for her input with troubleshooting
possibilities. Perhaps, a bathroom with the shower running could
provide her the opportunity to be up without disturbing others.
Another possibility is to have more white noise, such as a fan or
music to lessen the loudness factor. Close doors?


<<< I also remind them they have to get up early and ask what they
want for their lunchboxes the next day.
> My kids usually take this as a cue to gear down for the night...
they either go to bed shortly thereafter or snuggle down in their room
with a book.>>>

This sounds like you might not be making specific requests? I know
when we have kids over, they don't inherently know our family's
concerns and routines. For instance, we have areas of the yard with
poison ivy, ds never goes there. I am not surprised if kids do, if I
don't discuss the concerns I have about it.


<< Oh jeez this is the other thing... B has a summer reading
assignment with her ... her mother calls her every night to ask if she
is reading and threatens to take away her phone etc if she doesn't get
it done AND wants ME to POLICE her about this book!!! UGH! >>

I would ask how B would like to handle the reading, if you'd like to
be involved in facilitating her, and she is agreeable. Perhaps, she
would like to plan some quiet time away from everyone in order to
read, perhaps not. However, I'd discuss with the mom that B is
responsible for the reading, and that you aren't able to "police" her.
The mother is certainly able to concern herself if she desires. I
would also let B know that her mother may make returning contingent
upon the reading getting done. Not as a threat, but as a reminder of
this in order to facilitate B getting whatever is her priority.


<<< I guess I feel frustrated because this is such a cool kid and if
she could just spend more time being respected and honored and treated
gently she could really shine. I just can't being myself to heap any
negative energy on her head when she already gets so much at home!>>

I would tell her this in a heartfelt manner, during a non-pressured
time, so that she understands your concern.

Best wishes, Pat

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Lisa Blocker
<jlblock01@...> wrote:
>> So how do you guys handle it when you have a visiting non-
unschooled kid that doesn't know how to be respected and how to self
regulate? I mean if she was here ALL summer she would figure it out
and she does when she comes and stays for a longer period of time
she does start to calm down
*******************

I think its important to keep in mind - and maybe also talk about -
the fact that there isn't the usual cushion of time for
transitioning from one environment to the other. Transitions are
hard for everyone, and if she's only there for a short time right
now, y'all are kind of stuck in a non-stop transition.

This is something we used to deal with quite a bit when Ray was
going back and forth between our house and his mom's. There was one
period of time in particular when it seemed like he needed two days
to transition to "being here" and another day at the end to
transition to "going there" - in a five day span. Yikes. Being aware
of the different sorts of energy and interactions that happened
during transitional phases was pretty important. Although we
couldn't really change how Ray would act, we could change our
expectations and talk with him about how it felt to be "in
transition" vs "here". It helped alot.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 13)

Lisa

Thanks so much for your very thoughtful response....
this is how we proceeded the day after my post... I talked to the camp
director and expressed Anna's concerns about B sleeping during the
presentations at the camp and that she felt responsible. The director
said they had discussed the previous day in a staff meeting their
concerns about B and wondered if she wanted to be there or was being
forced... I explained that the entire camp has been her idea (Anna was
already signed up without B knowing when B asked if Anna was
interested etc). She offered to sit with them during that time so that
Anna wouldn't feel responsible. Also I explained to B that I was
concerned that she was falling asleep alot even when it seemed they
were going to bed at a somewhat reasonable time... I do know she is a
night owl but so are my kids and they typically make their choices
depending on what they want to do and what time it starts etc. The
camp is quite a far drive so reasonably she really needs to go when
Anna goes and be picked up at the same time etc. I asked her
straight out if the camp was what she expected, if she was enjoying it
, if she wanted to continue or not etc. She said she did like it
alot and wanted to continue but falling asleep is a habit that started
in school so it's hard for her to sit quietly while someone is
speaking and stay awake.
My biggest concern with this child is really that she seems to want to
rebel against all adults ....she's always loved it at my house and
liked the freedom she has ... I explained to her that I loved having
her here but that she had to become a more willing participant in the
community of my home if she wanted to be trusted to be here. She
told me that honestly at her house unless she makes herself a complete
pain in the ass no one notices she is alive. Makes me wonder
sometimes if the sleeping is just depression!? Each time she visits
I see a decline in her enjoyability level ... this summer with the
exception of about 2 weeks she's been at a camp, our house,
grandparents house etc. Her mother is a teacher and has the summer off
and has every summer of this child's life sent her anywhere she could
for as much of the summer as possible, I think she may just be
exhausted from her busy summer. I enjoy being a safe nurturing place
for her and do want her to continue to visit. Usually when she
visits I try to keep it low key so she can rest and do her own thing
etc. Some of the noise issues I think are just the fact that she
isn't used to sharing a room with anyone...she was an only child for
12 years until her mom remarried a man with 2 daughters. I also
think some of it is a "look at me look at me" type of mentality that
alot of traditionally schooled kids have... constant competition for
attention. I have found that talking with her quietly seems to
really calm her and bring her level way down. I have in the past few
nights told them we were settling down upstairs and would like them to
keep the noise level down (I just say good night to mine normally and
they figure out the rest unless they are really loud and wild down
there and need the additional reminding) Again too B is one of those
kids with a loud voice that carries... some kids just have a louder
voice or a voice that carries differently so mostly it's not an
intentional disruption but just her voice. Frankly most of the time
I enjoy hearing her sound happy and excited about things because I
know she's not very happy at home. I think because I have given her
some very specific things I need from her over the past few days she
will understand. Her step sister has already been banned from my
house for lying and endangering the reputation of another child so she
knows that I will stop her from coming.

Oh yeah we also talked about the book... her mother was going nuts
because she told her mom she had read "a couple of pages" when she's
read more than half of it! Her reasoning was that her mom was going
to nag and complain no matter what so she gets to at least have a
little fun with her this way!

Anyway thanks for the responses... I was feeling like a failure that
I was giving freedom to this kid and she was sort of flinging it back
at me! I know now how others feel when they first begin to give their
kids freedom and wonder if they will ever go to bed, get up in the
morning or stop playing video games! HA!
Lisa Blocker

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <jlblock01@...> wrote:
> She said she did like it
> alot and wanted to continue but falling asleep is a habit that
>started
> in school so it's hard for her to sit quietly while someone is
> speaking and stay awake.

Would it be within 'acceptable' for the situation for her to have
something at hand to keep her hands occupied? I know that my DH needs
to have his hands occupied in order to actually hear what someone is
saying in a lecture situation. So, he keeps paper and pen to doodle or
paper to fold or paperclips to bend or whatever - quiet, small,
portable, cheap. If he gets into a lecture situation without being
able to do something with his hands, sitting still and quiet takes all
his energy and he hears/retains little of the talking.

Don't know if this'll help at all but it might be worth discussing.

--Deb