mauratracy

Karen, your re-post didn't seem to work, so I found it and copied it below.

--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:

I've been wanting to discuss this...Quickly: We are unschooling my 2 little
ones, Julian age 4, almost 5 and Julia, freshly 2. My first 3 were from a
different relationship and a different era in my life and were, for the most
part, conventionally schooled. Laura is 19, James is 17 and Grace is 15.

OK. I have wanted to unschool James and Grace. James has been doing
alternative high school, from a STUPID program at the local continuation high,
to a
GREAT program online at Global Village High School for Peace and Freedom. LOVE
it there, but it was too funky for James, who feels safer within convention,
but is not conventional. Grace will be a sophomore and is not doing well in
school, falling behind in credits and what-not. I have offered her
alternatives, but she too is uninterested. I have tried to sort of deschool with
them,
and to some extent, I see them beginning to understand the process of what
learning is in actuality, not in a school-like-way, but they don't trust
themselves or me or that idea...not really. James is coming along, lol...I see
him
now looking things up online that interest him, he has returned to self
teaching guitar and is going to an off-shoot of the burning man festival this
weekend :) I am attempting comfort with that, lol and he and I have had some
nice
talks about trust and using the end of the teen years to experiment in many
parts of life and all that good stuff. He has decided that if he did not pass
the Ca High School Proficiency Exam, that he wants to go to the local Adult
School and get his GED because he isn't interested in college and doesn't know
what he wants to do. He feels this will help him get a job..I am not so
sure, myself, and have told him I'll back him as best I can on anything he
wants
or needs. Our issues are complicated by financial issues, because if he is
not in high school at 18, no more child support. If we weren't pay-check to
paycheck, there would be less of a rush, but sadly, we are. We are really very
financially strapped, and once child support stops, we can't afford him
anymore :( He knows this, understands it and we all hate it. I'm hoping he
stays
"in school" (my CA "private school" I've got set up is my ideal, so he can
unschool his last year for this kind of thing, in the safety net of being
financially cared for for the most part, you know?) He recently called me "punk
rock" which is a high compliment indeed (in regard to my alternative medicine
choices, homebirth, vax stuff, all that - because I take the time to educate
myself and he calls that punk rock - I loved it!) and has made other mention to
me that he really sees me as self educating and never really recognized that
before. That feels so good, you know?

Grace is attempting conventional education again this fall - she was living
with her father last year, and is no back and enjoying the trust we are
acquiring between us and is thinking...she was willing to go to the convention
with me that is in Sacramento in August, but we didn't have the funds, but at
least she was willing! And she said she'd go to the beach meet up this week
which is with teens that are at least homeschooled (both she and James have that
horrid idea that homeschoolers are losers...they'll learn, in time, I know)
if not unschooled, so that's something too. I wrote up a list of basic options
for the teens years and told her she can change from one to the next as she
sees necessary and we'd reevaluate as time passes.

So there's that. Sigh. Here's the hard one.

Laura. She graduated from high school, the old independent study program
they had here that I did - she got a 4.0, did well, did it a semester early
after failing horribly (they failed HER *I* feel, but that's a different post)
in
a private school with her Dad. She came home, we got her going with the
alternative program, she did so well, and that seemed to be it. She began
college, didn't take to it as she thought she would and flunked all of he
classes.
She then moved out and was living with friends, paying a nominal rent and
working. She then moved home, after telling me that she and her best friend,
her
roommate, were fighting al the time. I didn't want her to come back - I knew
it was a bad idea, but I let her move back in. It was supposed to be a hand
up, to help her get ready to move, but then she got fired and the short time
here turned into 13 months, that increased in misery as the weeks ticked by.
She lost that job, after having had it for years, tried a few other positions,
but either stopped showing up, or would quit. She went through jobs like me
and a good bake of chocolate chip cookies. She stopped helping financially
here due to the job loss, and we supported her 100%. She wouldn't do a bit of
any family chore or anything like that w/o serious coercion or constant
reminders. She was rude to Julian, the 4 year old and super sweet to Julia. She
left
a mess all over the place, including food to old in her room and in the
bathroom (which she shared with others). She then was caught stealing from my
mom
- used her credit card to run up nearly $600 in gas to se her boyfriend, got
caught at my mom's house 2 times for sure, possibly 3, stole the money out
of Julian's piggy ban (nearly $80) in slow increments, lied to us about so
many things, all the time, no one knew what was the truth. I supported her as
best as I could, couldn't believe that she was doing all of this...I know put
on blinders and tried to forget about each thing as it happened, like trying
to give her a clean slate each time an event occurred, but the tension in the
household was awful. Then Grace moved back, she stole money from
Grace...there's more, but I'm hoping I'm painting a clear picture here. anyway,
after
lots of discussions and warnings and what-not, she said she was moving out by
July 1. We stretched it to the 15th, since she still had no job, hadn't really
done anything, and tensions were building. We love her, but e can't trust
her. Finally, after all this time, I...I kicked her out. She knew it was
coming.
It was out in the open that she was going to have to leave (my former dh
never changed child support when Grace left, which was how I was able to
continue to support her living here) and she did nothing. We tried. We tried to
find
her jobs, we hid our money and credit cards, we talked about being rude to
Julian and to all of us ("When are you going shopping? There's no food here,"
that kind of thing and more) and we gave notice upon notice....well, 4 weeks
ago today, I had it and that was it. She's now not speaking to me, her
paternal grandmother is now taking care of her...and it's awful. I feel like I
went
against my heart, but I know I can't see ANYTHNG clearly about this
situation. I tried, I do try! I love this girl with all my heart...but I don't
love
her actions or what she has chosen. They have hurt others and that's the issue
I have. I don't know what to think, how to feel or what to do. So I am
writing here because I have never heard such excellent advice and discussions
in
my life as the ones I've gotten here.

My flow has been interrupted and I need to go...so sorry for the novel here,
and thank you if you got through this. It's been excruciating for me and for
her and for the rest of us living here. I admit, some tranquility has indeed
returned since she's been gone, but the pain of not seeing her and the s
ituation surrounding it is still just as bad. But at least I'm not covered in
eczema anymore and I can sleep again.

I'm almost in tears, so I'm gonna go, take the little ones to my dad's to
swim and have a nice dinner he made for us, have a bit of wine and be done with
the day.

Thanks again....
Karen

trektheory

I only pop in here periodically, so didn't see the original post. But
one thought came to me -- could your oldest be using drugs? Her
behavior has some definite hallmarks of drug users (I have a brother
who used, so they are familiar) or of mental illness. (And the line
can be blurry sometimes, btw.)

I'm still not sure what to advise you to do, though -- but perhaps
identifying the problem would be helpful.

Another thought is she might still be working through your divorce (or
not being together with their father -- I don't know the details, and
it doesn't matter; what matters is what is going on in her mind.) No
first hand experience with that.

You are right not to continue enabling her -- she will definitely be
resentful right now, and not see why you did what you did. Hopefully,
down the road, she will look back at it differently. The stealing,
btw, combined with being unable to hold a job (though that could have
multiple causes) is what made me think addiction.

I wish I could be more helpful, but send all my best for you in
dealing with this.

(And for your other teens -- well, I have a very cool teen who is
partially homeschooled, partially charter schooled. He loves not
being a traditional student!)

Linda
--- In [email protected], "mauratracy" <Maura@...> wrote:
>
> Karen, your re-post didn't seem to work, so I found it and copied it
below.
>
>
>
> Laura. She graduated from high school, the old independent study program
> they had here that I did - she got a 4.0, did well, did it a
semester early
> after failing horribly (they failed HER *I* feel, but that's a
different post)
> in
> a private school with her Dad. She came home, we got her going with the
> alternative program, she did so well, and that seemed to be it. She
began
> college, didn't take to it as she thought she would and flunked all
of he
> classes.
> She then moved out and was living with friends, paying a nominal
rent and
> working. She then moved home, after telling me that she and her best
friend,
> her
> roommate, were fighting al the time. I didn't want her to come back
- I knew
> it was a bad idea, but I let her move back in. It was supposed to be
a hand
> up, to help her get ready to move, but then she got fired and the
short time
> here turned into 13 months, that increased in misery as the weeks
ticked by.
> She lost that job, after having had it for years, tried a few other
positions,
> but either stopped showing up, or would quit. She went through jobs
like me
> and a good bake of chocolate chip cookies. She stopped helping
financially
> here due to the job loss, and we supported her 100%. She wouldn't do
a bit of
> any family chore or anything like that w/o serious coercion or constant
> reminders. She was rude to Julian, the 4 year old and super sweet to
Julia. She
> left
> a mess all over the place, including food to old in her room and in the
> bathroom (which she shared with others). She then was caught
stealing from my
> mom
> - used her credit card to run up nearly $600 in gas to se her
boyfriend, got
> caught at my mom's house 2 times for sure, possibly 3, stole the
money out
> of Julian's piggy ban (nearly $80) in slow increments, lied to us
about so
> many things, all the time, no one knew what was the truth. I
supported her as
> best as I could, couldn't believe that she was doing all of this...I
know put
> on blinders and tried to forget about each thing as it happened,
like trying
> to give her a clean slate each time an event occurred, but the
tension in the
> household was awful. Then Grace moved back, she stole money from
> Grace...there's more, but I'm hoping I'm painting a clear picture
here. anyway,
> after
> lots of discussions and warnings and what-not, she said she was
moving out by
> July 1. We stretched it to the 15th, since she still had no job,
hadn't really
> done anything, and tensions were building. We love her, but e can't
trust
> her. Finally, after all this time, I...I kicked her out. She knew it was
> coming.
> It was out in the open that she was going to have to leave (my former dh
> never changed child support when Grace left, which was how I was able to
> continue to support her living here) and she did nothing. We tried.
We tried to
> find
> her jobs, we hid our money and credit cards, we talked about being
rude to
> Julian and to all of us ("When are you going shopping? There's no
food here,"
> that kind of thing and more) and we gave notice upon notice....well,
4 weeks
> ago today, I had it and that was it. She's now not speaking to me, her
> paternal grandmother is now taking care of her...and it's awful. I
feel like I
> went
> against my heart, but I know I can't see ANYTHNG clearly about this
> situation. I tried, I do try! I love this girl with all my
heart...but I don't
> love
> her actions or what she has chosen. They have hurt others and that's
the issue
> I have. I don't know what to think, how to feel or what to do. So I am
> writing here because I have never heard such excellent advice and
discussions
> in
> my life as the ones I've gotten here.
>
> My flow has been interrupted and I need to go...so sorry for the
novel here,
> and thank you if you got through this. It's been excruciating for me
and for
> her and for the rest of us living here. I admit, some tranquility
has indeed
> returned since she's been gone, but the pain of not seeing her and the s
> ituation surrounding it is still just as bad. But at least I'm not
covered in
> eczema anymore and I can sleep again.
>
> I'm almost in tears, so I'm gonna go, take the little ones to my
dad's to
> swim and have a nice dinner he made for us, have a bit of wine and
be done with
> the day.
>
> Thanks again....
> Karen
>