Elly

hi all,

i joined a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading all this; had no idea there was
this whole world of "whole life" unschooling out there; i thought i was joining a schooling-
related unschooling list, if you know what i mean!

i've got two kids; dd is a few months from 4 and ds has just turned 1. they LOVE each
other. and i mean LOOOVE. but of course sometimes we have toy snatching, exploratory
hitting, play that's fun for one person but not for others (tackling, body holding, etc). so
far, we have ended the inappropriate behaviors on both sides physically when talking
didn't work (this usually involves pulling a grasping dd off of a crying ds, who HATES
having his body physically restrained, even if it's in one of dd's pretend games). we've
talked and talked to her about why these things are no fun for him, and noted that he's
crying etc, and often she'll let go herself, but sometimes we still have to pull her off him,
and sometimes there are incidents in which she's hit him and then run off, or look at us;
seemingly for no reason at all (as far as we know, all needs are met, etc).

SO, here are my questions. how do you handle snatching without ever removing the toy
from the snatcher's hands? if it were just about not punishing the snatcher, it'd be one
thing, but it clearly (in our family) teaches the snatchee to snatch; and anyways, there's no
reason for the snatchee to be punished (by having his/her toy removed) just because the
other kiddo wants to snatch. i love lots of the things i've read here and elsewhere, but
most are aimed towards older kids. dd is getting to an age where she can discuss things
rationally (well, sometimes), but sometimes she's "inspired" by ds to be "little". and
sometimes they're so hysterical together that she won't listen to me. which is fine until he
gets clobbered in the head with something hard, for the umpteenth time. how do you
handle these not-quite-safety issues with little kids? if i had a kid running for the oven, i'd
physically restrain the child. but i feel yucky getting in a pulling battle over a snatched toy
with a freaking out child, not to mention pulling a screaming little girl off her crying
brother. is there any more gentle way to handle these things?

sorry this is incredibly verbose; my head is only half screwed on this morning. ;)

elly

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Elly" <elly@...> wrote:
>> how do you handle snatching without ever removing the toy
> from the snatcher's hands?

Being proactive is really helpful, here - and ounce of prevention,
as they say. Be right there with them - down on the floor and
everything. Then you have a better chance to see the moment coming
and help them *ask* for what they want.

> if it were just about not punishing the snatcher, it'd be one
> thing, but it clearly (in our family) teaches the snatchee to
>snatch;

You have two very young kids who may not have the best
communications skills in the world, yet. Grabbing something is an
easy way to get what they want - its not necessarily a matter
of "teaching". If the goal is "get x" snatching works.

So the key is to help them communicate - help them discover more
tools, more ways of getting needs met, so they don't need to default
to snatching. At their ages, alot of that is going to come from
modelling, rather than showing or explaining. Once again, being
right there in the middle of things is going to be your best
strategy - even when things are running smoothly!

> and anyways, there's no
> reason for the snatchee to be punished (by having his/her toy
removed) just because the
> other kiddo wants to snatch.

Part of moving away from punishment involves moving away from
asigning the lables of "punishment" and "reward" to random acts and
events. If your dh unthinkingly leaves the seat up, is he punishing
you? No, but you're probably irritated anyway. See the grabbing as a
bit thoughtless, a less-than-stellar means of communication, but not
intentionally unkind.

It may be the snatchee will be happy with some other toy, especially
the little one, or that some other solution can be reached.
Depending on what's being snatched, maybe you just need duplicates
of some favorite toys. Or maybe you can have some special items
stashed away for moments when both kids want the same toy - bubbles
are a good quick-fix for some kids. Whipped cream. You just need to
break the tension.

> sometimes she's "inspired" by ds to be "little". and
> sometimes they're so hysterical together that she won't listen to
me. which is fine until he
> gets clobbered in the head with something hard, for the umpteenth
time. how do you
> handle these not-quite-safety issues with little kids?

She *is* little. Four is little. I have a 13yo and sometimes I have
to remind myself how young that really is. At the risk of sounding
repetitive, being right there with them helps to stop these kinds of
situations from starting in the first place. Encouraging kids to
communicate with one another, and filling in meaning for them when
they are struggling for words, helps them have more skills to
diffuse these kinds of things themselves, over time. Sometimes kids
need seemingly obvious pieces of information, like "ouch means I
don't like that".

I've found it helpful to have a word or phrase that I can use
quickly in over-the-top moments - in our house its "stop"
and/or "stop means stop". Danielle's is nicer, she uses "No thank
you". With very little kids, using a firm tone - not necessarily
loud or angry, but firm - can work wonders. Kids who are
overstimulated seem to take a few extra seconds to process actual
words sometimes, so tone is important. Also important is using
your "quicky phrase" in less over-the-top moments, so you can
encourage them to say it to each other.

> is there any more gentle way to handle these things?

When all else fails and you find yourself physically separating your
kids, appologise. Appologise in the moment if you think anyone will
hear it, but absolutely appologise after the fact, when they and you
have calmed down. Let them know that you didn't know what else to do
to keep them from getting hurt. With your 4yo, you can then ask for
suggestions and do some brainstorming for the future.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Lisa

My older kids love to tell the "share story" at our house.... when
they were all little.. I had 3 kids in 5 yrs there was the constant
wrangling for the much coveted toy of the moment. My rule has always
been that I do not intervene by awarding one child the toy when they
argue or tussle over something... I suggest possible solutions but I
have always felt that I can't really get involved in a sibling dispute
without choosing sides (at least in appearance to the child who feels
they lost!) so I work towards meeting everyone's needs by suggesting
solutions (no swooping in and taking the toy and announcing NOW NO ONE
has it! like my sister in law was fond of doing to her kids!) If one
toy is always the favorite I buy one for each kid... it's just
torturing them otherwise! Anyway my kids worked out for themselves
that when they were playing if they wanted to switch toys they would
call out "share" and everyone would trade. My then 4 yr old mostly
non verbal child with autism would shriek "SHARE" which meant she
wanted it ALL! HA! She would chase down the other two yelling SHARE
and practically tackle them and wrest away the toy she wanted totally
missing the "trading" part of the equation! They were good natured
about it even as wee ones because they knew she didn't understand that
part of the game. Even now when they want all of something they will
call out "SHARE!" in the same little squeaky voice their sister had at
that age and then crack up in evil laughter!
Lisa Blocker