Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and conveying "no"
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/2004 11:02:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
Why do they *want* to watch something that is distressing to them? Is it
possibly a minor rebellion against your disapproval?
Maybe we have just been really lucky. There has *never* been a situation
where Jayn (4.5) has said something was scary, and then insisted on watching
it anyway. She always asks for fast forward, no sound or hides her face or
goes away. She will come and go, slowly gaining her courage. This applies to
live shows and the cinema also. She has never (yet) had the kind of
nightmares that others mention.<<<
Duncan (8) was just in here. He asked whether we could go to a movie this
afternoon. We looked online to see what was playing. I suggested _I, Robot_
(Will Smith fan! <G>). He said no---it had guns and was really violent. I told
him that I thought I could handle the violence. <g> He said he didn't like
it; could we see Shrek II again?
So Shrek II it is.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
Why do they *want* to watch something that is distressing to them? Is it
possibly a minor rebellion against your disapproval?
Maybe we have just been really lucky. There has *never* been a situation
where Jayn (4.5) has said something was scary, and then insisted on watching
it anyway. She always asks for fast forward, no sound or hides her face or
goes away. She will come and go, slowly gaining her courage. This applies to
live shows and the cinema also. She has never (yet) had the kind of
nightmares that others mention.<<<
Duncan (8) was just in here. He asked whether we could go to a movie this
afternoon. We looked online to see what was playing. I suggested _I, Robot_
(Will Smith fan! <G>). He said no---it had guns and was really violent. I told
him that I thought I could handle the violence. <g> He said he didn't like
it; could we see Shrek II again?
So Shrek II it is.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Thomas
Kelly,
what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be?
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be?
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/2004 11:50:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
meplusfive@... writes:
Kelly,
what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be?<<<
But I don't think that, after eight years of respecting and trusting him, it
would happen----that he'd want to go.
OK. Let's say it did.
I'm guessing that he would have asked half-way through to leave if he found
it disturbing. We've never made him "finish" anything, so he doesn't feel
compelled (like my husband and I do) to stay through to the end. We'd leave.
If it came on at home, I'd remind him that he'd been frightened, but I'd let
him handle the remote and turn it off if/when he needed to. Maybe better
would be to rent it so that we could fast forward through the scary parts. HE'D
be in control. That's the important part. That HE could control what he
watches and how. That's what he did today, in fact! (And I got to sit through Shrek
II...again---no, I like it! <G>)
It's about learning to deal with your own fears in your own way. It's
empowering them to work through it the best way they can. If that means NOT going,
or going and watching again later, so be it. But they need to know that they
have the power.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
meplusfive@... writes:
Kelly,
what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be?<<<
But I don't think that, after eight years of respecting and trusting him, it
would happen----that he'd want to go.
OK. Let's say it did.
I'm guessing that he would have asked half-way through to leave if he found
it disturbing. We've never made him "finish" anything, so he doesn't feel
compelled (like my husband and I do) to stay through to the end. We'd leave.
If it came on at home, I'd remind him that he'd been frightened, but I'd let
him handle the remote and turn it off if/when he needed to. Maybe better
would be to rent it so that we could fast forward through the scary parts. HE'D
be in control. That's the important part. That HE could control what he
watches and how. That's what he did today, in fact! (And I got to sit through Shrek
II...again---no, I like it! <G>)
It's about learning to deal with your own fears in your own way. It's
empowering them to work through it the best way they can. If that means NOT going,
or going and watching again later, so be it. But they need to know that they
have the power.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
I wanted to jump in because this actually happened to us recently. My kids,
who have always been sensitive to what they decide is "scary" decided to
watch "Scooby Doo" (that's my 5 year old daughter and 3 yr old son). My
daughter had always decided from the covers of the Scooby stuff before that
it looked too scary. My daughter has found herself scared of "Little Bear"
before which is the gentlest thing ever, so that's where we're working from.
So we watched it. The first time, my daughter would run out of the room at
some of the stuff, and my son would hide behind the pillows. I reminded
them how the remote control worked and how they could skip what was scary.
I reminded them they could turn it off. They chose the remote control (of
course, this was a video, so they have that control...and maybe one idea is
to suggest taping a scary TV show so your son could do the same).
So they used the remote and after each watching they used it less and less.
Pretty soon episodes they had previously skipped as too scary, they were
watching. They did have a few nights with restless sleep on my daughter's
part, and some nightmare stuff on my son's part I thought was related to
watching it. The day after the sleep disturbances, they asked to watch it
again. The way I responded was to remind them of the sleep disturbances
and nightmares, and say that I believed they might be related to watching
Scooby, what did they think? Because I think what they might need help with
is hooking up the watching with the nightmares - the connection between the
two might not occur to them. In this instance, they said "No, mom". I
respected that and they've been watching ever since. They have not had any
more sleep disturbances or nightmares since we had that conversation.
Having thought a lot about it, I do not feel it is respectful at all to them
for me to decide what is too scary FOR them, plus I think they have good
radar for that and I want to encourage them to challenge what seems scary
when they want to, while also respecting what feels too scary. At the same
time, I want to help them. I can do that by saying about a potential
movie/show - "Sometimes you've said you don't like certain scary things or
sad things, and this looks like it could fit into that category" and we talk
about it. I make sure that there is no "incidental" TV or shows on that
they have not chosen - something my husband wants to watch for example - I
ask him to watch it out of their sight so that they do not end up scared by
something they just happen to see, they haven't made a decision about it. I
can do it by trying to point out how reactions I see by them like nightmares
or other things might be related to try to help them make decisions. But
the decisions always need to be theirs and I'm available to sit beside them
and watch too or talk about it.
So my suggestion is instead of deciding for your son, talk to him about the
nightmares, remind him of the proximity of them to the show and ask him
about it - does he think they're related? Ask him if taping it so he could
take breaks or skip certain parts of it would help. Respect that in the end
only HE really knows what's too scary for him. You can be his partner and
work with him instead of deciding for him and the benefits of doing that are
enormous. Both of you will feel respected and like a team instead of
adversaries.
Hope that helps...I greatly respect your move out into new territory with
your son. Keep going!
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Thomas [mailto:meplusfive@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and
conveying "no"
Kelly, what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you
got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be? sharon
who have always been sensitive to what they decide is "scary" decided to
watch "Scooby Doo" (that's my 5 year old daughter and 3 yr old son). My
daughter had always decided from the covers of the Scooby stuff before that
it looked too scary. My daughter has found herself scared of "Little Bear"
before which is the gentlest thing ever, so that's where we're working from.
So we watched it. The first time, my daughter would run out of the room at
some of the stuff, and my son would hide behind the pillows. I reminded
them how the remote control worked and how they could skip what was scary.
I reminded them they could turn it off. They chose the remote control (of
course, this was a video, so they have that control...and maybe one idea is
to suggest taping a scary TV show so your son could do the same).
So they used the remote and after each watching they used it less and less.
Pretty soon episodes they had previously skipped as too scary, they were
watching. They did have a few nights with restless sleep on my daughter's
part, and some nightmare stuff on my son's part I thought was related to
watching it. The day after the sleep disturbances, they asked to watch it
again. The way I responded was to remind them of the sleep disturbances
and nightmares, and say that I believed they might be related to watching
Scooby, what did they think? Because I think what they might need help with
is hooking up the watching with the nightmares - the connection between the
two might not occur to them. In this instance, they said "No, mom". I
respected that and they've been watching ever since. They have not had any
more sleep disturbances or nightmares since we had that conversation.
Having thought a lot about it, I do not feel it is respectful at all to them
for me to decide what is too scary FOR them, plus I think they have good
radar for that and I want to encourage them to challenge what seems scary
when they want to, while also respecting what feels too scary. At the same
time, I want to help them. I can do that by saying about a potential
movie/show - "Sometimes you've said you don't like certain scary things or
sad things, and this looks like it could fit into that category" and we talk
about it. I make sure that there is no "incidental" TV or shows on that
they have not chosen - something my husband wants to watch for example - I
ask him to watch it out of their sight so that they do not end up scared by
something they just happen to see, they haven't made a decision about it. I
can do it by trying to point out how reactions I see by them like nightmares
or other things might be related to try to help them make decisions. But
the decisions always need to be theirs and I'm available to sit beside them
and watch too or talk about it.
So my suggestion is instead of deciding for your son, talk to him about the
nightmares, remind him of the proximity of them to the show and ask him
about it - does he think they're related? Ask him if taping it so he could
take breaks or skip certain parts of it would help. Respect that in the end
only HE really knows what's too scary for him. You can be his partner and
work with him instead of deciding for him and the benefits of doing that are
enormous. Both of you will feel respected and like a team instead of
adversaries.
Hope that helps...I greatly respect your move out into new territory with
your son. Keep going!
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Thomas [mailto:meplusfive@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and
conveying "no"
Kelly, what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you
got home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams what
would your response be? sharon
Sharon Thomas
Ok....I see what you are saying.
What gets in the way is my: fears,upbringing, control issues etc. right?
I can see that. I can also see that I need to allow them to decide and if
that means leaving something, not eating something they wanted (even though
it cost money....another of those taught things from childhood) or make
another choice.
If you don't mind my stepping a little further here and asking.....?
I know that not everyone here has a spiritual preference or wants to even
think about it but it is still an area of learning/modeling so the
principle should be the same, I would think.I am asking to know and not to
start a debate.
If you had spiritual standards or beliefs and your child at whatever age
didn't agree or want to (for lack of a better word.)..abide or live....by
those beliefs what would you do?This could be for anything from diet choices
to movies,music etc.
I guess an example would be a Mom that felt sugar was detrimental to her
childs health and spiritually she thought that it was damaging his body
temple and she with holds it from the child. Yet as the child gets older say
7-10 ish the child wants it and Mom feels strongly about the belief? Her
response is to tell the child that she feels uncomfortable about him doing
that and while he lives in her house he needs to live by those standards
whether he agrees or not.
This scenario is played out in thousands of homes daily.....how could that
parent model her beliefs with the child to make it possible to find an
acceptable middle ground for both of them?
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What gets in the way is my: fears,upbringing, control issues etc. right?
I can see that. I can also see that I need to allow them to decide and if
that means leaving something, not eating something they wanted (even though
it cost money....another of those taught things from childhood) or make
another choice.
If you don't mind my stepping a little further here and asking.....?
I know that not everyone here has a spiritual preference or wants to even
think about it but it is still an area of learning/modeling so the
principle should be the same, I would think.I am asking to know and not to
start a debate.
If you had spiritual standards or beliefs and your child at whatever age
didn't agree or want to (for lack of a better word.)..abide or live....by
those beliefs what would you do?This could be for anything from diet choices
to movies,music etc.
I guess an example would be a Mom that felt sugar was detrimental to her
childs health and spiritually she thought that it was damaging his body
temple and she with holds it from the child. Yet as the child gets older say
7-10 ish the child wants it and Mom feels strongly about the belief? Her
response is to tell the child that she feels uncomfortable about him doing
that and while he lives in her house he needs to live by those standards
whether he agrees or not.
This scenario is played out in thousands of homes daily.....how could that
parent model her beliefs with the child to make it possible to find an
acceptable middle ground for both of them?
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Thomas
Joan,
The more that is shared and explained helps me to see alternatives and
what my hold up may be. I apologize to everyone if I am asking too many
questions, being annoying because I still have a control or rules mentality
lingering in my head. It takes me a little bit to really get the gist of
what is being said. To tell me I need to step back and not control gives me
just a hint at what is needed. To tell me what you have done or would do or
even question me as to why I did this or that (as you all have been doing)
makes me dig deeper into my motivation. Again I am sorry if this is annoying
anyone. I wish I had been brought up this way or known others that I could
have watched. I see so many alternatives from reading everyones posts and I
think....why didn't I think of that? but I realize it was what I knew or had
been told was the way to go.
Thank you for sharing it will make a difference in my family.
Reading about your children is so nice.Your kids sound responsive not
oppressed, genuine not molded,know their own minds instead of following
others and happy.
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The more that is shared and explained helps me to see alternatives and
what my hold up may be. I apologize to everyone if I am asking too many
questions, being annoying because I still have a control or rules mentality
lingering in my head. It takes me a little bit to really get the gist of
what is being said. To tell me I need to step back and not control gives me
just a hint at what is needed. To tell me what you have done or would do or
even question me as to why I did this or that (as you all have been doing)
makes me dig deeper into my motivation. Again I am sorry if this is annoying
anyone. I wish I had been brought up this way or known others that I could
have watched. I see so many alternatives from reading everyones posts and I
think....why didn't I think of that? but I realize it was what I knew or had
been told was the way to go.
Thank you for sharing it will make a difference in my family.
Reading about your children is so nice.Your kids sound responsive not
oppressed, genuine not molded,know their own minds instead of following
others and happy.
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
christy_imnotred
--- In [email protected], "Sharon Thomas"
<meplusfive@b...> wrote:
spiritual beliefs or her son's feelings, her relationship with him.
If she has explained her beliefs in a way that makes sense, if she
lives her beliefs everyday, and has given her son the opportunity to
make up his own mind about it, chances are he will follow her
beliefs. But if he doesn't, I think she needs to keep in mind that
they are her beliefs, and not necessarily her sons. I think forcing
someone to live by your standards whether they agree or not is
setting that person up to never agree. It is setting up resentment
towards you and the belief.
I also cringe when I hear parents refer to it as my house. My house
belongs to me, my husband and my son. He lives here and should have
the same rights as everyone else who lives here. Just because I'm
bigger doesn't mean I have to right to force him to live in a way he
isn't comfortable with.
Hope this makes sense,
Christy
<meplusfive@b...> wrote:
> I guess an example would be a Mom that felt sugar was detrimentalto her
> childs health and spiritually she thought that it was damaging hisbody
> temple and she with holds it from the child. Yet as the child getsolder say
> 7-10 ish the child wants it and Mom feels strongly about thebelief? Her
> response is to tell the child that she feels uncomfortable abouthim doing
> that and while he lives in her house he needs to live by thosestandards
> whether he agrees or not.I would say the mom has to decide what is more important, her
spiritual beliefs or her son's feelings, her relationship with him.
If she has explained her beliefs in a way that makes sense, if she
lives her beliefs everyday, and has given her son the opportunity to
make up his own mind about it, chances are he will follow her
beliefs. But if he doesn't, I think she needs to keep in mind that
they are her beliefs, and not necessarily her sons. I think forcing
someone to live by your standards whether they agree or not is
setting that person up to never agree. It is setting up resentment
towards you and the belief.
I also cringe when I hear parents refer to it as my house. My house
belongs to me, my husband and my son. He lives here and should have
the same rights as everyone else who lives here. Just because I'm
bigger doesn't mean I have to right to force him to live in a way he
isn't comfortable with.
Hope this makes sense,
Christy
Deb Lewis
***what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got
home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams
what
would your response be?***
If my son watched a movie that frightened him and later wanted to watch
it again I would remind him it had been frightening. If he said he
still wanted to see it I would trust that he had a good reason for
wanting to. I would watch it with him, let him sleep with me, talk it
over, look up "the making of" information on-line or any other thing I
could do that would help him process what he'd seen and heard.
I would think he felt the need to see it. I may not understand what my
son is getting from the pursuit of some thing or other but that doesn't
mean it isn't worthwhile.
I have made choices in my life that were frightening (this new haircut!
Gads!) but I made them because I thought what I would get from it would
be more than what it would cost me.
Deb Lewis
home
he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later it
was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams
what
would your response be?***
If my son watched a movie that frightened him and later wanted to watch
it again I would remind him it had been frightening. If he said he
still wanted to see it I would trust that he had a good reason for
wanting to. I would watch it with him, let him sleep with me, talk it
over, look up "the making of" information on-line or any other thing I
could do that would help him process what he'd seen and heard.
I would think he felt the need to see it. I may not understand what my
son is getting from the pursuit of some thing or other but that doesn't
mean it isn't worthwhile.
I have made choices in my life that were frightening (this new haircut!
Gads!) but I made them because I thought what I would get from it would
be more than what it would cost me.
Deb Lewis
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Hi, Sharon,
I am so glad this is helping you feel like you are finding what you need
with your family. Personally I am not finding your questions annoying at
all (I hope my post didn't give you that impression!) ... I find it
incredibly uplifting to see someone work as hard as you are obviously doing
and caring so much to find something that feels better to you. It is really
hard work to change thinking patterns and behavioral patterns - I know
because I've been there doing that in major ways in my life before I had
kids. Bravo to you. I really hope you keep asking all the questions you
need.
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Thomas [mailto:meplusfive@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and
conveying "no"
Joan, The more that is shared and explained helps me to see alternatives
and
what my hold up may be. I apologize to everyone if I am asking too many
questions, being annoying because I still have a control or rules mentality
lingering in my head. It takes me a little bit to really get the gist of
what is being said. To tell me I need to step back and not control gives me
just a hint at what is needed. To tell me what you have done or would do or
even question me as to why I did this or that (as you all have been doing)
makes me dig deeper into my motivation. Again I am sorry if this is annoying
anyone. I wish I had been brought up this way or known others that I could
have watched. I see so many alternatives from reading everyones posts and I
think....why didn't I think of that? but I realize it was what I knew or had
been told was the way to go. Thank you for sharing it will make a
difference in my family. Reading about your children is so nice.Your kids
sound responsive not
oppressed, genuine not molded,know their own minds instead of following
others and happy. sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
I am so glad this is helping you feel like you are finding what you need
with your family. Personally I am not finding your questions annoying at
all (I hope my post didn't give you that impression!) ... I find it
incredibly uplifting to see someone work as hard as you are obviously doing
and caring so much to find something that feels better to you. It is really
hard work to change thinking patterns and behavioral patterns - I know
because I've been there doing that in major ways in my life before I had
kids. Bravo to you. I really hope you keep asking all the questions you
need.
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Thomas [mailto:meplusfive@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and
conveying "no"
Joan, The more that is shared and explained helps me to see alternatives
and
what my hold up may be. I apologize to everyone if I am asking too many
questions, being annoying because I still have a control or rules mentality
lingering in my head. It takes me a little bit to really get the gist of
what is being said. To tell me I need to step back and not control gives me
just a hint at what is needed. To tell me what you have done or would do or
even question me as to why I did this or that (as you all have been doing)
makes me dig deeper into my motivation. Again I am sorry if this is annoying
anyone. I wish I had been brought up this way or known others that I could
have watched. I see so many alternatives from reading everyones posts and I
think....why didn't I think of that? but I realize it was what I knew or had
been told was the way to go. Thank you for sharing it will make a
difference in my family. Reading about your children is so nice.Your kids
sound responsive not
oppressed, genuine not molded,know their own minds instead of following
others and happy. sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Sharon Thomas
Joan,
thanks for the encouragement!
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thanks for the encouragement!
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Sharon wrote:
"If you don't mind my stepping a little further here and asking.....? I know
that not everyone here has a spiritual preference or wants to even think
about it but it is still an area of learning/modeling so the principle
should be the same, I would think.I am asking to know and not to start a
debate. If you had spiritual standards or beliefs and your child at
whatever age
didn't agree or want to (for lack of a better word.)..abide or live....by
those beliefs what would you do? This could be for anything from diet
choices to movies,music etc. ... as the child gets older say 7-10 ish the
child wants it and Mom feels strongly about the belief? Her
response is to tell the child that she feels uncomfortable about him doing
that and while he lives in her house he needs to live by those standards
whether he agrees or not. This scenario is played out in thousands of
homes daily.....how could that parent model her beliefs with the child to
make it possible to find an acceptable middle ground for both of them?"
I didn't see a specific response to this - and I don't know if it got lost
in the thread, but I think it's worth singling out. I'm not a religous
person, but this morning I thought about something I've found difficult and
how I've handled it ... and I'm wondering if anyone else, even if not
religous, has other examples too. I think a better other example than the
one Sharon stated might be, for example, if anyone on this list is
vegetarian or vegan, with strong underlying beliefs against the killing of
animals for human consumption, or the treatment of animals to make certain
foods (the way cows are treated to make veal for example which is a reason I
personally never eat veal). How do you handle it if your child asks to eat
meat or veal - especially since you would likely have to purchase it and
cook it? How do you respect and honor what is SO important in unschooling,
the choices of the child, while still living with your own strong feelings
and beliefs?
I know that with veal, I would explain to my child what veal is, why I don't
eat it which would include an age appropriate description of how they treat
the cows in the making of it (or I'd just say I didn't like how they treated
the cows and see if they wanted to hear more). I'm hoping that would be
sufficient to at least make them consider the question. If they decided
they wanted to try it anyway, it would be really hard for me, but I think I
would put my belief in supporting their choosing first, and recognize that
my feelings about veal are just that, my own feelings, and forcing them on
my children feels as oppressive as forcing any of my other beliefs and
feelings on them. And my feeling is that children who feel things forced on
them at some point as they get older rebel against those beliefs as not of
their own choosing. The reality is that my children will make their own
choices as they get older and it seems likelier they will be open to at
least strongly considering what I have to say if I present it as my feelings
and explain it instead of making a rule about it or insisting it's going to
be such and such a way because it's "my house" - actually I believe it is
the house of each member of my family - I'd always want them to feel that
way. In other words, I'd never want to alienate my child over the issue of
veal, or any other particular issue. I'd value my relationship with them
over my desire to have them share any particular belief of mine. Maybe a
"compromise" we could agree on is that instead of me having to cook it, we
go out to eat it at a restaurant (although I am purchasing it in any event,
at least I don't have to cook it).
Has anyone else struggled with this type of thing? I'd love to hear the
thoughts of others...
Joan
"If you don't mind my stepping a little further here and asking.....? I know
that not everyone here has a spiritual preference or wants to even think
about it but it is still an area of learning/modeling so the principle
should be the same, I would think.I am asking to know and not to start a
debate. If you had spiritual standards or beliefs and your child at
whatever age
didn't agree or want to (for lack of a better word.)..abide or live....by
those beliefs what would you do? This could be for anything from diet
choices to movies,music etc. ... as the child gets older say 7-10 ish the
child wants it and Mom feels strongly about the belief? Her
response is to tell the child that she feels uncomfortable about him doing
that and while he lives in her house he needs to live by those standards
whether he agrees or not. This scenario is played out in thousands of
homes daily.....how could that parent model her beliefs with the child to
make it possible to find an acceptable middle ground for both of them?"
I didn't see a specific response to this - and I don't know if it got lost
in the thread, but I think it's worth singling out. I'm not a religous
person, but this morning I thought about something I've found difficult and
how I've handled it ... and I'm wondering if anyone else, even if not
religous, has other examples too. I think a better other example than the
one Sharon stated might be, for example, if anyone on this list is
vegetarian or vegan, with strong underlying beliefs against the killing of
animals for human consumption, or the treatment of animals to make certain
foods (the way cows are treated to make veal for example which is a reason I
personally never eat veal). How do you handle it if your child asks to eat
meat or veal - especially since you would likely have to purchase it and
cook it? How do you respect and honor what is SO important in unschooling,
the choices of the child, while still living with your own strong feelings
and beliefs?
I know that with veal, I would explain to my child what veal is, why I don't
eat it which would include an age appropriate description of how they treat
the cows in the making of it (or I'd just say I didn't like how they treated
the cows and see if they wanted to hear more). I'm hoping that would be
sufficient to at least make them consider the question. If they decided
they wanted to try it anyway, it would be really hard for me, but I think I
would put my belief in supporting their choosing first, and recognize that
my feelings about veal are just that, my own feelings, and forcing them on
my children feels as oppressive as forcing any of my other beliefs and
feelings on them. And my feeling is that children who feel things forced on
them at some point as they get older rebel against those beliefs as not of
their own choosing. The reality is that my children will make their own
choices as they get older and it seems likelier they will be open to at
least strongly considering what I have to say if I present it as my feelings
and explain it instead of making a rule about it or insisting it's going to
be such and such a way because it's "my house" - actually I believe it is
the house of each member of my family - I'd always want them to feel that
way. In other words, I'd never want to alienate my child over the issue of
veal, or any other particular issue. I'd value my relationship with them
over my desire to have them share any particular belief of mine. Maybe a
"compromise" we could agree on is that instead of me having to cook it, we
go out to eat it at a restaurant (although I am purchasing it in any event,
at least I don't have to cook it).
Has anyone else struggled with this type of thing? I'd love to hear the
thoughts of others...
Joan
Kelly Muzyczka
> The reality is that my children will make their ownBut what about when if violates your personal ethics. And I think the
>choices as they get older and it seems likelier they will be open to at
>least strongly considering what I have to say if I present it as my feelings
>and explain it instead of making a rule about it or insisting it's going to
>be such and such a way because it's "my house" - actually I believe it is
>the house of each member of my family - I'd always want them to feel that
>way. In other words, I'd never want to alienate my child over the issue of
>veal, or any other particular issue. I'd value my relationship with them
>over my desire to have them share any particular belief of mine. Maybe a
>"compromise" we could agree on is that instead of me having to cook it, we
>go out to eat it at a restaurant (although I am purchasing it in any event,
>at least I don't have to cook it).
vegan/veal one is a good example.
If eating meat is murder to you, then why would you do it? Even if it is
something your child wants to experience. I would say, "That is something
*I* just can't do or support. I'm not going to tell you not to do it. I'm
going to tell you why *I* won't do it. If you chose to eat it at someone
else's house, or order it with your own money, that's your choice. But my
own ethics will not allow me."
Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if we
don't stand by them?
Kelly
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Addition to my prior post about veal. One of the things that turned
lightbulbs on for me the fastests as I read "The Explosive Child" recently,
was the author's modeling of actual conversations with parents and children.
So, Sharon, in the event this is helpful to you, here is how a conversation
I feel is respectful to both my children and myself about veal that might
get us to a compromise might go:
Daughter: "Mom, I just saw this cool sounding thing called veal you can
eat. What does it taste like? I want to try some."
Me: "Well, I don't know what veal tastes like. Veal comes from cows. I've
decided not to eat it because I saw a TV show about how the cows are treated
to make veal, and I hated the way the cows are treated. I don't want to buy
veal because that's supporting the cows being treated in a way I really
disagree with."
Daughter: "How do they treat the cows?"
Me: "Well, veal is really tender cow meat. To make the cow's bodies that
tender, they have to keep the cows in a little stall their whole entire
lives. The cows never get to go outside that stall, ever. It really
bothers me to think of an animal spending their whole life in a dark stall.
It angers me that people would do that to animals for any reason, and I
really have a hard time with people doing it so their meat is more tender."
Daughter (assuming she's not persuaded): "Well, I really want to try it
anyway. Can you make some for me?"
Me: "Well, I respect that you make the choice about what you want to eat.
But this does require my involvement if you want me to go to the store, buy
veal, then cook it. I think that would be a really hard thing for me to do.
I'm having a hard time picturing myself doing it. How do you think we could
resolve this?"
Daughter: "Well, maybe I could go to a restaurant with Dad and have some.
That way you don't have to buy it or cook it or be there when I eat it."
Me: "Good idea. Dad doesn't have these strong feelings I do about veal.
Let's go talk to him."
Joan
lightbulbs on for me the fastests as I read "The Explosive Child" recently,
was the author's modeling of actual conversations with parents and children.
So, Sharon, in the event this is helpful to you, here is how a conversation
I feel is respectful to both my children and myself about veal that might
get us to a compromise might go:
Daughter: "Mom, I just saw this cool sounding thing called veal you can
eat. What does it taste like? I want to try some."
Me: "Well, I don't know what veal tastes like. Veal comes from cows. I've
decided not to eat it because I saw a TV show about how the cows are treated
to make veal, and I hated the way the cows are treated. I don't want to buy
veal because that's supporting the cows being treated in a way I really
disagree with."
Daughter: "How do they treat the cows?"
Me: "Well, veal is really tender cow meat. To make the cow's bodies that
tender, they have to keep the cows in a little stall their whole entire
lives. The cows never get to go outside that stall, ever. It really
bothers me to think of an animal spending their whole life in a dark stall.
It angers me that people would do that to animals for any reason, and I
really have a hard time with people doing it so their meat is more tender."
Daughter (assuming she's not persuaded): "Well, I really want to try it
anyway. Can you make some for me?"
Me: "Well, I respect that you make the choice about what you want to eat.
But this does require my involvement if you want me to go to the store, buy
veal, then cook it. I think that would be a really hard thing for me to do.
I'm having a hard time picturing myself doing it. How do you think we could
resolve this?"
Daughter: "Well, maybe I could go to a restaurant with Dad and have some.
That way you don't have to buy it or cook it or be there when I eat it."
Me: "Good idea. Dad doesn't have these strong feelings I do about veal.
Let's go talk to him."
Joan
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/2004 10:24:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mina@...
writes:
Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if we
don't stand by them?<<<
MY ethical conviction is that school is emotionally, psychologically,
physically, and educationally damaging. Would I "allow" my kids to go to school if
they wanted to? Yes. They needs to draw their own conclusions and make their
own decisions. They're smart. They're informed.
I doubt they'll decide to go to school.
I've been a vegetarian twice in my life. Right now, my husband and my 16
year son are vegetarians. Duncan and I eat meat. Suppers have started to SUCK! I
cook waaaay too much and too many different things. And I'm starting to just
keep burrito/quesadilla fixin's in the 'frig' so that everyone can make his
own version---with or without meat. (I hate this!) Welcome to supper! :-P~~~~*
But eating meat all his life didn't make Ben or Cameron stay omnivorous.
Being a vegetarian when I was five and 14 didn't make me stay vegetarian.
We EACH have to come up with our own beliefs. Pushing the belief that school
is necessary in the real world is useless when talking to me. Pushing that
veal should never be eaten is just as bad. He'll make the correct decision for
him when he has all the information, pro and con.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if we
don't stand by them?<<<
MY ethical conviction is that school is emotionally, psychologically,
physically, and educationally damaging. Would I "allow" my kids to go to school if
they wanted to? Yes. They needs to draw their own conclusions and make their
own decisions. They're smart. They're informed.
I doubt they'll decide to go to school.
I've been a vegetarian twice in my life. Right now, my husband and my 16
year son are vegetarians. Duncan and I eat meat. Suppers have started to SUCK! I
cook waaaay too much and too many different things. And I'm starting to just
keep burrito/quesadilla fixin's in the 'frig' so that everyone can make his
own version---with or without meat. (I hate this!) Welcome to supper! :-P~~~~*
But eating meat all his life didn't make Ben or Cameron stay omnivorous.
Being a vegetarian when I was five and 14 didn't make me stay vegetarian.
We EACH have to come up with our own beliefs. Pushing the belief that school
is necessary in the real world is useless when talking to me. Pushing that
veal should never be eaten is just as bad. He'll make the correct decision for
him when he has all the information, pro and con.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
"If eating meat is murder to you, then why would you do it? Even if it is
something your child wants to experience. I would say, "That is something
*I* just can't do or support. I'm not going to tell you not to do it. I'm
going to tell you why *I* won't do it. If you chose to eat it at someone
else's house, or order it with your own money, that's your choice. But my
own ethics will not allow me."
Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if we
don't stand by them?
Kelly "
I think these are good questions, Kelly, and they show why this is such a
difficult issue. Thanks for responding to it. I can't speak for the murder
issue because those are not my beliefs. I will answer your last question
however from my perspective. I can tell my daughter or son hwo strong my
ethical convictions are and show them by my example of what I do. I don't
think I have to "show" them the strength of those convictions by making
their decisions for them. That said, I don't think what you're saying above
is necessarily deciding "for" them ... it's letting them know that it isn't
something you could tolerate around you and that you need for their choice
(which you're still supporting) to be done in a way that doesn't involve
you. That I would support. What I'm nervous about is parents taking away
the choices altogether because children "have" to believe what parents
do.....
So I think I agree with your response in the situation but I don't think
that's "showing them the strength of your convictions" as much as working
out a way to have the child be able to choose and still have the parents
feelings considered.
Joan
something your child wants to experience. I would say, "That is something
*I* just can't do or support. I'm not going to tell you not to do it. I'm
going to tell you why *I* won't do it. If you chose to eat it at someone
else's house, or order it with your own money, that's your choice. But my
own ethics will not allow me."
Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if we
don't stand by them?
Kelly "
I think these are good questions, Kelly, and they show why this is such a
difficult issue. Thanks for responding to it. I can't speak for the murder
issue because those are not my beliefs. I will answer your last question
however from my perspective. I can tell my daughter or son hwo strong my
ethical convictions are and show them by my example of what I do. I don't
think I have to "show" them the strength of those convictions by making
their decisions for them. That said, I don't think what you're saying above
is necessarily deciding "for" them ... it's letting them know that it isn't
something you could tolerate around you and that you need for their choice
(which you're still supporting) to be done in a way that doesn't involve
you. That I would support. What I'm nervous about is parents taking away
the choices altogether because children "have" to believe what parents
do.....
So I think I agree with your response in the situation but I don't think
that's "showing them the strength of your convictions" as much as working
out a way to have the child be able to choose and still have the parents
feelings considered.
Joan
Kelly Muzyczka
>(Just for the record, I'm not vegan either, it was just a fairly clear
>So I think I agree with your response in the situation but I don't think
>that's "showing them the strength of your convictions" as much as working
>out a way to have the child be able to choose and still have the parents
>feelings considered.
>
>Joan
example.)
I do think that it works as a case of modeling your convictions, though, if
that phrasing make more sense.
Recently there were posts on a local pagan e--group about a Jamaican
musician, known for anti-gay lyrics, coming to town and how people should
know so they could decide about attending, etc. Some people seemed to
bending over backwards in favor of "free speech." All about how Jamaica
has an anti-gay culture, blah blah blah.
Sorry, the guy's a bigot who spreads his message through his music. If my
kids wanted to go, I wouldn't stop him, but I wouldn't soft pedal my
opinion. And he'd have to find his own ticket money. And if I could get
away with it, his own ride.
Being supportive of the decision making process doesn't mean we put our
opinions away on a shelf.
Kelly
Deb Lewis
***Do we really show them how strong our own ethical convictions are if
we
don't stand by them?***
*My* ethical conviction leads me to live my life a certain way. It does
not afford me power to insist others live *their* lives *my* way.
I'm a vegan. My son is too, for now. He may always be, or he may not.
I can only choose for myself. He can only choose for himself.
I don't like the idea of my fellow Earthlings dying for my convenience so
I've chosen not to eat or wear them. I *do* get into a drive a car a
few times a week and under the wheels and against my grill and windshield
many of my fellow Earthlings lose their lives. How do I ethically live
with this?
My house is made from wood. It's an old house. I didn't kill the trees
but by golly they're dead and it's for my convenience.
I cut my grass so my neighbors don't have to live next to a place they
can't stand to look at. I use a push mower but I know lots of my fellow
Earthlings die in those blades.
I by food at the grocery store that had to flown in or trucked because I
live in a location where I can't grow all my own food. Do I know which
planes hit a flock of birds or which truck smacked a heard of Elk?
Do I know which CEO of which grocery store poisons neighborhood cats or
shoots gophers?
Even when we think we have the rightest of the right answers there are
always more questions. Even when we think we can live with ourselves
there is always room to question our own hypocrisies.
I will make my choices in the best way I know in order that I can stand
to look at myself on the occasions I actually do, and when I know a
better way hopefully I'll be ethical enough to improve.
My hope for my son is that he'll feel free enough and powerful enough to
make his own choices.
Deb Lewis
we
don't stand by them?***
*My* ethical conviction leads me to live my life a certain way. It does
not afford me power to insist others live *their* lives *my* way.
I'm a vegan. My son is too, for now. He may always be, or he may not.
I can only choose for myself. He can only choose for himself.
I don't like the idea of my fellow Earthlings dying for my convenience so
I've chosen not to eat or wear them. I *do* get into a drive a car a
few times a week and under the wheels and against my grill and windshield
many of my fellow Earthlings lose their lives. How do I ethically live
with this?
My house is made from wood. It's an old house. I didn't kill the trees
but by golly they're dead and it's for my convenience.
I cut my grass so my neighbors don't have to live next to a place they
can't stand to look at. I use a push mower but I know lots of my fellow
Earthlings die in those blades.
I by food at the grocery store that had to flown in or trucked because I
live in a location where I can't grow all my own food. Do I know which
planes hit a flock of birds or which truck smacked a heard of Elk?
Do I know which CEO of which grocery store poisons neighborhood cats or
shoots gophers?
Even when we think we have the rightest of the right answers there are
always more questions. Even when we think we can live with ourselves
there is always room to question our own hypocrisies.
I will make my choices in the best way I know in order that I can stand
to look at myself on the occasions I actually do, and when I know a
better way hopefully I'll be ethical enough to improve.
My hope for my son is that he'll feel free enough and powerful enough to
make his own choices.
Deb Lewis
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
"Being supportive of the decision making process doesn't mean we put our
opinions away on a shelf.
Kelly "
YES! I really agree with this. And boy, if I feel strongly about it, my
kids hear the strength of that. Joan
opinions away on a shelf.
Kelly "
YES! I really agree with this. And boy, if I feel strongly about it, my
kids hear the strength of that. Joan
Sharon Thomas
Joan and Kelly M.,
I appreciate all you have shared. Thanks Joan for bringing this issue up.
It has given me an idea on how to talk with my kids yet allow them to follow
their ideas and convictions without giving up mine.
I realize that you all were stepping out and looking at it from a "what if
this happened" in my family instead of already having experienced it.
That meant alot to me.It is easy to by pass something because either it isn
t an issue or it doesn't seem like it should be.
Again thank you everyone for sharing. I am going to use some of the
examples and ideas....soon I am sure.!!! LOL
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I appreciate all you have shared. Thanks Joan for bringing this issue up.
It has given me an idea on how to talk with my kids yet allow them to follow
their ideas and convictions without giving up mine.
I realize that you all were stepping out and looking at it from a "what if
this happened" in my family instead of already having experienced it.
That meant alot to me.It is easy to by pass something because either it isn
t an issue or it doesn't seem like it should be.
Again thank you everyone for sharing. I am going to use some of the
examples and ideas....soon I am sure.!!! LOL
sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon and Rue Kream
>>If you chose to eat it at someoneelse's house, or order it with your own money, that's your choice. But my
own ethics will not allow me."
**I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons. Everyone else in the family eats
meat at least occasionally. We don't have 'your own money' in our family.
My husband's paycheck and the money I earn selling jewelry is our money.
It's Jon's and mine and Dagny's and Rowan's. If one of them asks me to buy
a happy meal I will. Our bank won't give my kids an atm card (which pisses
me off but is a whole nother subject <g>), and neither one is comfortable
carrying much money around, so for now I'm their bank and they get to their
money through me. It doesn't violate my ethics to give them the assistance
they need from me to get what they want. It *would* violate my ethics to
stand in the way of them making their own choices. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<I've been a vegetarian twice in my life. Right now, my husband and my 16
year son are vegetarians. Duncan and I eat meat. Suppers have started to
SUCK! I
cook waaaay too much and too many different things. And I'm starting to just
keep burrito/quesadilla fixin's in the 'frig' so that everyone can make his
own version---with or without meat. (I hate this!) Welcome to supper!
:-P~~~~*>>>>
I was a vegetarian from the mid 1980's until I came to Los Angeles in 1994
when I succumbed to the lure of sushi and added fish to my Ovo-Lacto diet.
Then I got pregnant. No sushi for a while. I started eating meat again after
Jayn started eating "real meals" in 2000 - basically because cooking up to 3
different meals for every meal was driving me crazy, and dh's steaks looked
too good. Then I removed nutmeats and peanuts from my diet once I realized
Jayn was allergic to them in case it was in my milk somehow.
I expected all sorts of problems and weight gain, but didn't find any. Alas
no weight loss either. Then I did have a problem. What was going on?
Allergic to chicken? IBS? Nope. Turns out I had a creeping onset (not a
medical term but descriptive) lactose intolerance. Just as well I didn't
have to rely on dairy as a primary protein source anymore. It started with
ice cream, and progressed to all kinds of milk or cheeses.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
year son are vegetarians. Duncan and I eat meat. Suppers have started to
SUCK! I
cook waaaay too much and too many different things. And I'm starting to just
keep burrito/quesadilla fixin's in the 'frig' so that everyone can make his
own version---with or without meat. (I hate this!) Welcome to supper!
:-P~~~~*>>>>
I was a vegetarian from the mid 1980's until I came to Los Angeles in 1994
when I succumbed to the lure of sushi and added fish to my Ovo-Lacto diet.
Then I got pregnant. No sushi for a while. I started eating meat again after
Jayn started eating "real meals" in 2000 - basically because cooking up to 3
different meals for every meal was driving me crazy, and dh's steaks looked
too good. Then I removed nutmeats and peanuts from my diet once I realized
Jayn was allergic to them in case it was in my milk somehow.
I expected all sorts of problems and weight gain, but didn't find any. Alas
no weight loss either. Then I did have a problem. What was going on?
Allergic to chicken? IBS? Nope. Turns out I had a creeping onset (not a
medical term but descriptive) lactose intolerance. Just as well I didn't
have to rely on dairy as a primary protein source anymore. It started with
ice cream, and progressed to all kinds of milk or cheeses.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004
pam sorooshian
On Aug 4, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Sharon Thomas wrote:
times for mom and son to talk. And, LOTS of times wanting to see it
again is part of the process (as are the dreams) of coming to grips
with the fact that the world is scary. Processing! That's good.
I certainly think that they are "his" bad dreams - and not necessarily
something you should be protecting him from against his will.
There are movies I didn't want my kids to see. I distracted them - we
got busy. When "Silence of the Lambs" was on tv, my husband wanted to
watch it. I said no - you can rent it and watch it when the rest of us
are not around. So - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I
imposed just any scary movie on my children - I didn't. I protected
them from violent sex - especially rape scenes, etc. Didn't want those
images in their heads.
But this was a matter of my husband and I choosing to watch things
that we didn't want them to see ONLY if they were gone or if we could
go to a movie without them. AND if there was something they really
wanted to watch, we'd watch together. MATRIX was an example of that -
Rosie was only about 10 or so when her good friend saw it and loved it
and talked about it all the time. I watched it and thought she'd be
overwhelmed by it - that it would not be something she'd be glad she'd
watched. We talked about it a lot and she was hesitant for a long time
- and eventually we all watched it together and really enjoyed it.
Interestingly, when the next MATRIX movie came out in theaters, a bunch
of her friends went to see it together. She declined - deciding to wait
for it to come out on DVD so she could watch it at home.
I'm happy about never really saying, "No way." By letting her have the
ultimate choice, she really became thoughtful about her decision.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Kelly,Bad dreams are good feedback for him about what he can handle. And good
>
> what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got
> home
> he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later
> it
> was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams
> what
> would your response be?
>
> sharon
times for mom and son to talk. And, LOTS of times wanting to see it
again is part of the process (as are the dreams) of coming to grips
with the fact that the world is scary. Processing! That's good.
I certainly think that they are "his" bad dreams - and not necessarily
something you should be protecting him from against his will.
There are movies I didn't want my kids to see. I distracted them - we
got busy. When "Silence of the Lambs" was on tv, my husband wanted to
watch it. I said no - you can rent it and watch it when the rest of us
are not around. So - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I
imposed just any scary movie on my children - I didn't. I protected
them from violent sex - especially rape scenes, etc. Didn't want those
images in their heads.
But this was a matter of my husband and I choosing to watch things
that we didn't want them to see ONLY if they were gone or if we could
go to a movie without them. AND if there was something they really
wanted to watch, we'd watch together. MATRIX was an example of that -
Rosie was only about 10 or so when her good friend saw it and loved it
and talked about it all the time. I watched it and thought she'd be
overwhelmed by it - that it would not be something she'd be glad she'd
watched. We talked about it a lot and she was hesitant for a long time
- and eventually we all watched it together and really enjoyed it.
Interestingly, when the next MATRIX movie came out in theaters, a bunch
of her friends went to see it together. She declined - deciding to wait
for it to come out on DVD so she could watch it at home.
I'm happy about never really saying, "No way." By letting her have the
ultimate choice, she really became thoughtful about her decision.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Lanie Carlson-Lim
My 11 yo is really into horror movies, which I always try to watch with him (though I really don't enjoy them) We started when he was younger with the black and white mummy, dracula, etc...he said they weren't scary to him (I'm still creeped out by Lon Chaney jrs wolfman)...so we moved up a notch...Gremlins, JAWS and have slowly crept into SCREAM...I find watching it with him we can talk about the themes (sexism, violence) and he doesn't seem to have nightmares...he likes the special effects aspect of it...and when I say EWWWW...he says,"mom, you know that;s fake" I did work on a stageplay and then a film version of a horror show a few years ago, so he got to see blood made from karo syrup, dishsoap and red food color. I'm still trying to find a happy medium with "slasher" movies...i think nextw ere gonna try the 80's teen stuff like Lost Boys and Fright Night
Lanie
Lanie
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] handling movies. WAS: saying "no" and conveying "no"
On Aug 4, 2004, at 8:47 AM, Sharon Thomas wrote:
> Kelly,
>
> what would you do if your son said "ok...let's go" then when you got
> home
> he had bad dreams or seemed upset by the movie? Then a few weeks later
> it
> was on tv. and he wanted to watch it again? Knowing he had bad dreams
> what
> would your response be?
>
> sharon
Bad dreams are good feedback for him about what he can handle. And good
times for mom and son to talk. And, LOTS of times wanting to see it
again is part of the process (as are the dreams) of coming to grips
with the fact that the world is scary. Processing! That's good.
I certainly think that they are "his" bad dreams - and not necessarily
something you should be protecting him from against his will.
There are movies I didn't want my kids to see. I distracted them - we
got busy. When "Silence of the Lambs" was on tv, my husband wanted to
watch it. I said no - you can rent it and watch it when the rest of us
are not around. So - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I
imposed just any scary movie on my children - I didn't. I protected
them from violent sex - especially rape scenes, etc. Didn't want those
images in their heads.
But this was a matter of my husband and I choosing to watch things
that we didn't want them to see ONLY if they were gone or if we could
go to a movie without them. AND if there was something they really
wanted to watch, we'd watch together. MATRIX was an example of that -
Rosie was only about 10 or so when her good friend saw it and loved it
and talked about it all the time. I watched it and thought she'd be
overwhelmed by it - that it would not be something she'd be glad she'd
watched. We talked about it a lot and she was hesitant for a long time
- and eventually we all watched it together and really enjoyed it.
Interestingly, when the next MATRIX movie came out in theaters, a bunch
of her friends went to see it together. She declined - deciding to wait
for it to come out on DVD so she could watch it at home.
I'm happy about never really saying, "No way." By letting her have the
ultimate choice, she really became thoughtful about her decision.
-pam
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