Ruining/Wasting Things
Julie v.
My ds (age 5) loves to unroll things, tape, yarn, toilet paper, papertowels, dental floss,
white out tape, ect... I've never said anything because he seems to enjoy what he is doing,
he's not doing it to be destructive, he just likes it for some reason. I guess my problem
with it is the wastefullness of it. He has gone through 3 rolls of scotch tape, 2 dental floss
containers and a roll of paper towels in one day! Obviously on occasion my dh or I have
mentioned the word "wasting" because sometimes when he goes to do it he will say "I'm
playing a wasting game":) Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to that would
fulfill this obvious need he has? I guess these items are cheap and easily replaceable and I
should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but sometimes it's hard
when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store intending it to last for some time and it's
out in a week.
The other thing he likes to do is scrape things with his fingernails. While sitting on the
toilet he has scraped all the paint off of the trim on the door, while playing on the
computer he has scraped all the paint off the top of the desk that is right in front of the
computer. If he finds a candle he will sit and scrape it into shavings on the floor. The
other day he found a pack of pencils that we were going to make pinwheels out of, but he
tore all the erasers off with his fingernails.
Has anybody else's child done similar things?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
white out tape, ect... I've never said anything because he seems to enjoy what he is doing,
he's not doing it to be destructive, he just likes it for some reason. I guess my problem
with it is the wastefullness of it. He has gone through 3 rolls of scotch tape, 2 dental floss
containers and a roll of paper towels in one day! Obviously on occasion my dh or I have
mentioned the word "wasting" because sometimes when he goes to do it he will say "I'm
playing a wasting game":) Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to that would
fulfill this obvious need he has? I guess these items are cheap and easily replaceable and I
should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but sometimes it's hard
when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store intending it to last for some time and it's
out in a week.
The other thing he likes to do is scrape things with his fingernails. While sitting on the
toilet he has scraped all the paint off of the trim on the door, while playing on the
computer he has scraped all the paint off the top of the desk that is right in front of the
computer. If he finds a candle he will sit and scrape it into shavings on the floor. The
other day he found a pack of pencils that we were going to make pinwheels out of, but he
tore all the erasers off with his fingernails.
Has anybody else's child done similar things?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
Robert Saxon
Julie,
Regarding the unrolling of things, have you tried stopping by the bargain
bin for those 24-pack rolls of toilet paper for $5 (or somesuch deal)?
Whatever it is, find it cheap for him. We had similar issues with
bandages. They wanted a bandage for EVERYthing, so DW bought really
inexpensive bandages for them to play with from the dollar store.
Money-wise, it was great. Materials-wise, well, they were still "wasting"
it. It was still going in the landfill, but my pocketbook wasn't hurting
from it. And now they're pretty well off of it, though I don't remember how
long they were on that kick (sorry!).
Scraping things with fingernails? Sorry, not sure what to do about that.
You could try getting things for him that are his, but it's something he can
do anywhere to anything. That's a conundrum to me.
--Rob
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5) and Elissa (4)
Regarding the unrolling of things, have you tried stopping by the bargain
bin for those 24-pack rolls of toilet paper for $5 (or somesuch deal)?
Whatever it is, find it cheap for him. We had similar issues with
bandages. They wanted a bandage for EVERYthing, so DW bought really
inexpensive bandages for them to play with from the dollar store.
Money-wise, it was great. Materials-wise, well, they were still "wasting"
it. It was still going in the landfill, but my pocketbook wasn't hurting
from it. And now they're pretty well off of it, though I don't remember how
long they were on that kick (sorry!).
Scraping things with fingernails? Sorry, not sure what to do about that.
You could try getting things for him that are his, but it's something he can
do anywhere to anything. That's a conundrum to me.
--Rob
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5) and Elissa (4)
On 7/9/07, Julie v. <jlvw@...> wrote:
>
> My ds (age 5) loves to unroll things, tape, yarn, toilet paper,
> papertowels, dental floss,
> white out tape, ect... I've never said anything because he seems to enjoy
> what he is doing,
> he's not doing it to be destructive, he just likes it for some reason. I
> guess my problem
> with it is the wastefullness of it. He has gone through 3 rolls of scotch
> tape, 2 dental floss
> containers and a roll of paper towels in one day! Obviously on occasion my
> dh or I have
> mentioned the word "wasting" because sometimes when he goes to do it he
> will say "I'm
> playing a wasting game":) Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to
> that would
> fulfill this obvious need he has? I guess these items are cheap and easily
> replaceable and I
> should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but
> sometimes it's hard
> when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store intending it to last for
> some time and it's
> out in a week.
>
> The other thing he likes to do is scrape things with his fingernails.
> While sitting on the
> toilet he has scraped all the paint off of the trim on the door, while
> playing on the
> computer he has scraped all the paint off the top of the desk that is
> right in front of the
> computer. If he finds a candle he will sit and scrape it into shavings on
> the floor. The
> other day he found a pack of pencils that we were going to make pinwheels
> out of, but he
> tore all the erasers off with his fingernails.
>
> Has anybody else's child done similar things?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Julie
> http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Emilie
My oldest daughter really likes to experiment and make bizarre messes
like emptying out a whole container of baby powder behind the bed (6
months later an I'm still finding more of it :-) . Or smearing
vaseline all over things. As well as unrolling scads of tape and toilet paper.
I don't know if this is unschooly enough, but my response has been
to roll it back up again and have that be the special roll of floss,
or paper for unrolling. Then I talk about how this way we can have
fun and play with it but still make sure we don't use too many trees
up . I would suggest the same thing with the scraping maybe he could
have a big candle for scraping in a bowl, then you could melt down
the wax together and make a new one just for scraping all over again
and again. If you got him to help you repaint the areas where paint
has been removed maybe he would want to keep it nice and fresh
looking. Or maybe you could give him a board painted with nontoxic
paint to scrape off so you know it doesn't contain lead. Even make
layers of different colors which can be scraped off one by one. You
can put the paint on together.
I have learned that my daughter needs lots of opportunities to
make mixtures of sensory items. Cooking and baking regularly with her
getting to put her hands in it seems to be satisfying for her and
then I find fewer weird messes around the house. This is a creative
endeavor and nothing is wasted because we eat it. She also likes to
do what we call "mad scientist" in the bathtub with bins of
cornstarch and water, food coloring in squeeze bottles, soap and
other varying items. Then I just hose it down at the end or we do it
together. I guess this is is a little wasteful but is it worse than
making playdough and then letting it dry out?
Dd also loves to unroll tape but encouraging her to make things with
the tape, even using lots and lots of tape seems to refocus her and
give her an extension to the enjoyable unrolling part. This has
resulted in her using less tape over all, although we still use a lot
and making really cool 3d shapes out of paper.
Is this honoring her desires enough or am I trying too hard to make
her play fit my needs? Maybe this is not being radical enough? I
don't know. Maybe someone else can speak on that?
Emilie
(Felicity 6, Cecilia 3, Charlotte, 1)
11:38 AM 09/07/2007, you wrote:
like emptying out a whole container of baby powder behind the bed (6
months later an I'm still finding more of it :-) . Or smearing
vaseline all over things. As well as unrolling scads of tape and toilet paper.
I don't know if this is unschooly enough, but my response has been
to roll it back up again and have that be the special roll of floss,
or paper for unrolling. Then I talk about how this way we can have
fun and play with it but still make sure we don't use too many trees
up . I would suggest the same thing with the scraping maybe he could
have a big candle for scraping in a bowl, then you could melt down
the wax together and make a new one just for scraping all over again
and again. If you got him to help you repaint the areas where paint
has been removed maybe he would want to keep it nice and fresh
looking. Or maybe you could give him a board painted with nontoxic
paint to scrape off so you know it doesn't contain lead. Even make
layers of different colors which can be scraped off one by one. You
can put the paint on together.
I have learned that my daughter needs lots of opportunities to
make mixtures of sensory items. Cooking and baking regularly with her
getting to put her hands in it seems to be satisfying for her and
then I find fewer weird messes around the house. This is a creative
endeavor and nothing is wasted because we eat it. She also likes to
do what we call "mad scientist" in the bathtub with bins of
cornstarch and water, food coloring in squeeze bottles, soap and
other varying items. Then I just hose it down at the end or we do it
together. I guess this is is a little wasteful but is it worse than
making playdough and then letting it dry out?
Dd also loves to unroll tape but encouraging her to make things with
the tape, even using lots and lots of tape seems to refocus her and
give her an extension to the enjoyable unrolling part. This has
resulted in her using less tape over all, although we still use a lot
and making really cool 3d shapes out of paper.
Is this honoring her desires enough or am I trying too hard to make
her play fit my needs? Maybe this is not being radical enough? I
don't know. Maybe someone else can speak on that?
Emilie
(Felicity 6, Cecilia 3, Charlotte, 1)
11:38 AM 09/07/2007, you wrote:
>My ds (age 5) loves to unroll things, tape, yarn, toilet paper,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>papertowels, dental floss,
>white out tape, ect... I've never said anything because he seems to
>enjoy what he is doing,
>he's not doing it to be destructive, he just likes it for some
>reason. I guess my problem
>with it is the wastefullness of it. He has gone through 3 rolls of
>scotch tape, 2 dental floss
>containers and a roll of paper towels in one day! Obviously on
>occasion my dh or I have
>mentioned the word "wasting" because sometimes when he goes to do it
>he will say "I'm
>playing a wasting game":) Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct
>him to that would
>fulfill this obvious need he has? I guess these items are cheap and
>easily replaceable and I
>should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but
>sometimes it's hard
>when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store intending it to
>last for some time and it's
>out in a week.
>
>The other thing he likes to do is scrape things with his
>fingernails. While sitting on the
>toilet he has scraped all the paint off of the trim on the door,
>while playing on the
>computer he has scraped all the paint off the top of the desk that
>is right in front of the
>computer. If he finds a candle he will sit and scrape it into
>shavings on the floor. The
>other day he found a pack of pencils that we were going to make
>pinwheels out of, but he
>tore all the erasers off with his fingernails.
>
>Has anybody else's child done similar things?
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Julie
><http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/>http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
>
>
[email protected]
My dd (12) is a tactile person. She currently works in oil-based clay for hours and hours, picks flowers and berries and leaves for her dinosaurs or dragons to eat or to incorporate in her clay scenes, carves sidewalk chalk into shapes (and uses the powder to make "stews" and such) and used to delight in making "toilet paper soup" out of tp, water and shavings of soap. She used to love to tape things together, to make balls out of tape, to string wool from one end of a desk to another, making spider webs and so on. She always finds new ways to use things that we tend to have proscribed ways of using <g>.
Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to that
As Rob suggested, buy reasonably cheap (but not so cheap that it's useless) tape, dental floss (or some substitute), paper towel, toilet paper *just for him*. Consider them art supplies! Buy what you need for yourself.
The process has ended up being a two-fold thing for me, as it often is with unschooling. It required me to change my attitude about "wastefulness" and what was acceptably creative. It was about finding ways to help my dd get what she wants (experience, feelings, seeing cause and effect, autonomy in creativity and perhaps other things I haven't thought of) that we can all live with in terms of cost, mess and space.
For her, she has watched me go from absolute horror and shaming to finding ways to happily facilitate her experiments and find creative solutions of my own (thanks to wise voices on these lists over the years). She's seen me become a better mom, which is a good thing.
My other suggestion is doing some, if not all, of this stuff with him. When you do, you can talk using things for creativity vs. what they are conventionally used for. That could lead you in interesting directions (looking things up on the internet or in books; making connections, for instance, about paper and pencils coming from the same raw material or discovering new things about wax) or it may just be about fun in the moment.
It's one thing I regret not doing more of when dd was younger, and though I will offer to join her now on occasion, my full participation is a work in progress. At 12, dd wants more time to work on things herself, so I may have missed that opportunity, unfortunately. So dive in with him and you may learn something new about yourself!
Robin B.
Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to that
> wouldI look at a lot of these things as "consumables", just like toilet paper, paper towel, laundry soap, etc. They all have a conventional "job" to do, but I began to see when dd was younger that she was learning by using them in unconventional and often messy ways. Sometimes, unfortunately, she learned that it got me uptight and judgmental. I've worked on that, for sure. It was a matter of understanding her point of view and watching her happiness in her creativity. For me, it was also unlearning what was considered creative or okay with materials. The schooling runs deep <g>.
> fulfill this obvious need he has? I guess these items are cheap and easily
> replaceable and I
> should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but sometimes it's
> hard
> when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store intending it to last for some
> time and it's
> out in a week.
As Rob suggested, buy reasonably cheap (but not so cheap that it's useless) tape, dental floss (or some substitute), paper towel, toilet paper *just for him*. Consider them art supplies! Buy what you need for yourself.
>Sounds like my dd, especially with regard to the shavings (see above sidewalk chalk and soap <g>). I look at it as part of her need to reveal things, such as a sculptor does. However, you may want to redirect some of that to things he can safely do. Find him an old baking sheet to shave cheap candles onto (then maybe see what happens to the shavings if you put them in a warm oven together). My dd likes to cover her hands with white glue, then peel it off (she came by this genetically, I guess, as I *loved* doing this when I was younger), so you could try that and get an industrial sized container of glue that you can "decant" if it works out. Get him some of those waxed art papers that reveal colors when you scratch them off for use while he's on the toilet or at the computer.
> The other thing he likes to do is scrape things with his fingernails. While
> sitting on the
> toilet he has scraped all the paint off of the trim on the door, while playing
> on the
> computer he has scraped all the paint off the top of the desk that is right in
> front of the
> computer. If he finds a candle he will sit and scrape it into shavings on the
> floor. The
> other day he found a pack of pencils that we were going to make pinwheels out
> of, but he
> tore all the erasers off with his fingernails.
The process has ended up being a two-fold thing for me, as it often is with unschooling. It required me to change my attitude about "wastefulness" and what was acceptably creative. It was about finding ways to help my dd get what she wants (experience, feelings, seeing cause and effect, autonomy in creativity and perhaps other things I haven't thought of) that we can all live with in terms of cost, mess and space.
For her, she has watched me go from absolute horror and shaming to finding ways to happily facilitate her experiments and find creative solutions of my own (thanks to wise voices on these lists over the years). She's seen me become a better mom, which is a good thing.
My other suggestion is doing some, if not all, of this stuff with him. When you do, you can talk using things for creativity vs. what they are conventionally used for. That could lead you in interesting directions (looking things up on the internet or in books; making connections, for instance, about paper and pencils coming from the same raw material or discovering new things about wax) or it may just be about fun in the moment.
It's one thing I regret not doing more of when dd was younger, and though I will offer to join her now on occasion, my full participation is a work in progress. At 12, dd wants more time to work on things herself, so I may have missed that opportunity, unfortunately. So dive in with him and you may learn something new about yourself!
Robin B.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Has anybody else's child done similar things?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Julie
> http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Melissa
I think all of my kids spent about a year doing such things, with the oldest I made a bigger
deal of it than I should have. With the little ones, we just put it all into the ziplock boxes,
snack cups, etc and use them later (either for intended purposes or for some craft the girls
created). I don't know about redirection, it just seemed better to let them work through
their need, and clean it up later. I know that unwrapping duct tape for me is similar
auditorily to watching a fire, it's hypnotic!
On picking paint, we have bare spots around our house. I'm rather thankful for them,
because one of our daughters loved to strip the hollow doors of the wood. So we have two
doors that are nonexistant beyond the 1x2 inch frames from about 24 inches down. Paint
is so much easier to fix ;-)
One of our daughters loved to put stickers all over the door jam, and another daughter
would peel them off, dozens a day. Maybe he needs more craft time? Scratch art (the black
boards that you scratch off and the colors are painted underneath? We used to make them
by coloring and then covering it all with black crayon?)
deal of it than I should have. With the little ones, we just put it all into the ziplock boxes,
snack cups, etc and use them later (either for intended purposes or for some craft the girls
created). I don't know about redirection, it just seemed better to let them work through
their need, and clean it up later. I know that unwrapping duct tape for me is similar
auditorily to watching a fire, it's hypnotic!
On picking paint, we have bare spots around our house. I'm rather thankful for them,
because one of our daughters loved to strip the hollow doors of the wood. So we have two
doors that are nonexistant beyond the 1x2 inch frames from about 24 inches down. Paint
is so much easier to fix ;-)
One of our daughters loved to put stickers all over the door jam, and another daughter
would peel them off, dozens a day. Maybe he needs more craft time? Scratch art (the black
boards that you scratch off and the colors are painted underneath? We used to make them
by coloring and then covering it all with black crayon?)
--- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@...> wrote:
>
> My ds (age 5) loves to unroll things, tape, yarn, toilet paper, papertowels, dental floss,
> white out tape, ect... I've never said anything because he seems to enjoy what he is
doing,
<snip>
Does anybody have any ideas to re-direct him to that would
> fulfill this obvious need he has?
Ren Allen
~~I guess these items are cheap and easily replaceable and I
should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but
sometimes it's hard when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store
intending it to last for some time and it's out in a week.~~
I wrote an article a while back, titled "the economics of unschooling"
in which I explored the idea of wasting/waste. If you truly don't have
the money for it, then you don't. That's not arbitrary.
But, if you can afford to stock him with these items (maybe he could
have his own bin of stuff?) then go for it. Maybe there are items that
have similar effects without being disposable. Ace bandages can wrap
around stuff and be re-used. STring can usually be wrapped back up.
Paper clips, rubber bands etc...are easily re-usable.
I think it's great to shift our perspective about these tools for our
children and think about what we'd be willing to spend if they wanted
a book or an "educational" item or movie. What they are interested in
at the moment has far more value.
There are very real budget constraints and that is something everyone
has to figure out, children figure this part out pretty easily. But if
the tape is bringing up our own issues, it's great to examine whether
it's a worthy thing or just old baggage (I can just hear my parents
carrying on about waste right now). :)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
should just look at it as money not spend on "manipulatives", but
sometimes it's hard when I just bought a 5-pack of tape at the store
intending it to last for some time and it's out in a week.~~
I wrote an article a while back, titled "the economics of unschooling"
in which I explored the idea of wasting/waste. If you truly don't have
the money for it, then you don't. That's not arbitrary.
But, if you can afford to stock him with these items (maybe he could
have his own bin of stuff?) then go for it. Maybe there are items that
have similar effects without being disposable. Ace bandages can wrap
around stuff and be re-used. STring can usually be wrapped back up.
Paper clips, rubber bands etc...are easily re-usable.
I think it's great to shift our perspective about these tools for our
children and think about what we'd be willing to spend if they wanted
a book or an "educational" item or movie. What they are interested in
at the moment has far more value.
There are very real budget constraints and that is something everyone
has to figure out, children figure this part out pretty easily. But if
the tape is bringing up our own issues, it's great to examine whether
it's a worthy thing or just old baggage (I can just hear my parents
carrying on about waste right now). :)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Lisa
My two youngest kids love tape... for me it wasn't so much that they
were wasting tape as it was that each time I needed some there wasn't
any for me to use! At that point I bought several rolls from the
cheapie bin at Target (.75 each or something) and wrote their names on
their tape and wrote my name on a roll for me to use. I made sure
that they knew that it wasn't so much that my tape was off limits but
that it made me frustrated when I needed some and it was all gone.
They occasionally go through all of theirs and ask for mine and I
usually let them have it .... basically if they ask and I give it then
I KNOW it's gone so I can replace it when I go to the store. I try to
make sure they have plenty of tape, yarn, white paper and so forth ...
my 12 yr old will go through white paper like crazy which again I
don't mind but get frustrated when I need some and it's all gone and I
didn't expect it to be. My solution is again to buy less expensive
white paper for her to draw on than I normally use in my printer and
let her know that is her paper ... I feel like this gives her freedom
to do what she needs to do while being respectful of other people's
belongings.
I think most of the time when kids do things that seem destructive (as
in the case of scraping off paint etc) it meets a sensory need. My
son will tear apart anything that is foam (nerf darts, balls etc) and
my daughter shreds toilet paper (there is always a nest next to the
toilet!) periodically I pick up the nest and toss it in the toilet to
be flushed at the next flush...we also found that the darts can
sometimes be repaired with foam glue and sometimes they need to be
tossed. He also peels off labels from things ... mostly they don't
matter but now and then it does ...like the paper he recently peeled
off of a really nice painting's backing from the framer's. I had it
repaired and explained to him that if the paper was gone the painting
might fall out of the frame and be damaged. He was fascinated by
watching the framer redo the paper and I think that he probably won't
do it again because he knows the purpose for the paper now (when it
was explained to him he said "wow I didn't know it had a job" )
When my husband was little if anything was broken or damaged or he
wasted anything he was shamed, punished and harangued about it for
weeks or months (or years!) ...really honestly his dad recently
brought up an instance of him peeling wallpaper when he was 7! He is
bothered by the things that the kids do that he has been programmed to
think of as wasteful or destructive but he tries really hard because
of his experiences not to say anything or show that he is bothered by
it.
were wasting tape as it was that each time I needed some there wasn't
any for me to use! At that point I bought several rolls from the
cheapie bin at Target (.75 each or something) and wrote their names on
their tape and wrote my name on a roll for me to use. I made sure
that they knew that it wasn't so much that my tape was off limits but
that it made me frustrated when I needed some and it was all gone.
They occasionally go through all of theirs and ask for mine and I
usually let them have it .... basically if they ask and I give it then
I KNOW it's gone so I can replace it when I go to the store. I try to
make sure they have plenty of tape, yarn, white paper and so forth ...
my 12 yr old will go through white paper like crazy which again I
don't mind but get frustrated when I need some and it's all gone and I
didn't expect it to be. My solution is again to buy less expensive
white paper for her to draw on than I normally use in my printer and
let her know that is her paper ... I feel like this gives her freedom
to do what she needs to do while being respectful of other people's
belongings.
I think most of the time when kids do things that seem destructive (as
in the case of scraping off paint etc) it meets a sensory need. My
son will tear apart anything that is foam (nerf darts, balls etc) and
my daughter shreds toilet paper (there is always a nest next to the
toilet!) periodically I pick up the nest and toss it in the toilet to
be flushed at the next flush...we also found that the darts can
sometimes be repaired with foam glue and sometimes they need to be
tossed. He also peels off labels from things ... mostly they don't
matter but now and then it does ...like the paper he recently peeled
off of a really nice painting's backing from the framer's. I had it
repaired and explained to him that if the paper was gone the painting
might fall out of the frame and be damaged. He was fascinated by
watching the framer redo the paper and I think that he probably won't
do it again because he knows the purpose for the paper now (when it
was explained to him he said "wow I didn't know it had a job" )
When my husband was little if anything was broken or damaged or he
wasted anything he was shamed, punished and harangued about it for
weeks or months (or years!) ...really honestly his dad recently
brought up an instance of him peeling wallpaper when he was 7! He is
bothered by the things that the kids do that he has been programmed to
think of as wasteful or destructive but he tries really hard because
of his experiences not to say anything or show that he is bothered by
it.
Julie v.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful insights on this subject! I knew there was a reason
he was doing it, so that's why I never made a big deal, but had just found myself recently
starting to feel uptight about it, that's why I posted.
He's never been really into crafty things, but after reading the posts, I'm probably not
introducing the right kind of crafts to him. I never even knew that scratch boards or
waxed art paper even existed, will definately be on the lookout for those.
Rob
I never thought of going to the dollar store, what a great idea! I know that if I bought a
huge pack of t.p. both my boys would be occupied for some time. Bandages too, my older
son likes to put a fresh one on his hurts about every couple hours:)
Robin,
He loves making balls out of the tape, especially with masking and duct tape. I like how
you described about the proscribed ways things are to be used and the unconvential ways
our children like to use them, I guess this is what unschooling is all about, if he was in
school and did something unconventional with a craft item, I'm sure the teachers would let
him know it wasn't o.k. I never want him to feel that because he's doing something
different than the way most people do it that it's wrong or somehow "weird". On a whole
he seems to do most things different and has helped me move away from my "schooled"
mentality a bit, although I still need more nudging:)
I also liked the suggestion of expanding on whatever it is he is fixated on by finding out
more information about it, he is very much into looking things up on the computer right
now and I think he would definitely be open to it.
Ren,
We can afford it to a point, I mean we are definitely on a budget, but a few toilet paper
rolls or the like doesn't pose a major problem. I like the suggestion of using re-usable
items like paperclips, rubberbands, bandages, ect..I will see what of those items he might
embrace. Where can I find your article?
Melissa,
I liked your idea of putting the things into bags to be re-used, we actually have done that
with the papertowels, the other day he ripped them off the roll one by one and made a pile
on the floor so I just gathered them up and put them in a grocery bag and that's what
we've been using this week.
Lisa,
I didn't mention it because I forgot, but he loves to tear apart foam also and tore all of his
"rockets" from his stomp rocket kit into tiny pieces on the floor. A few months back he
painted a bunch of styrafoam balls for a solar system model and just recently has started
scraping all the paint off of them with his fingernails. I noticed one day that it actually
calmed him down a bit when we had friends over and he was starting to get agressive, he
spotted one of those balls and started going to town and after he had scraped all the paint
off he had calmed himself down. When I saw that I thought about going and buying more
balls, and if he's up for it I'm going to go this week.
Emilie,
I like your ideas of reusing the wax by melting it down, I think he would love it! Also he
has recently been doing a little bit of experimenting with food coloring and different
liquids so I came across this color mixer where you put water and then two different colors
in the two different compartments and then when you go to pour it they both pour into a
central container and mix. He loved mixing it and pouring it into the bathtub, then finally
just wanted the tablets to drop in the tub to dissolve. I think I will suggest other items like
cornstarch and bins and bottles, I know he will like it, he's always loved water play!
Also Emilie, I think that as long as your child is open to your suggestions that it's not like
your are making her fit your needs. Like with the tape, if she's unrolling it and making a
ball, you suggesting "hey, you know you could sculpt that into something?", I think just
opens up her world. Maybe she never thought that was an option. As long as your not
insisting she do what you suggest I think it's definitely inline with unschooling. I do that
with my son all the time and sometimes he's like "wow, let's do it" and other times he's like
"no, I want to do this with it" and I shut up:)
Thanks again everyone for all the helpful insights!
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
he was doing it, so that's why I never made a big deal, but had just found myself recently
starting to feel uptight about it, that's why I posted.
He's never been really into crafty things, but after reading the posts, I'm probably not
introducing the right kind of crafts to him. I never even knew that scratch boards or
waxed art paper even existed, will definately be on the lookout for those.
Rob
I never thought of going to the dollar store, what a great idea! I know that if I bought a
huge pack of t.p. both my boys would be occupied for some time. Bandages too, my older
son likes to put a fresh one on his hurts about every couple hours:)
Robin,
He loves making balls out of the tape, especially with masking and duct tape. I like how
you described about the proscribed ways things are to be used and the unconvential ways
our children like to use them, I guess this is what unschooling is all about, if he was in
school and did something unconventional with a craft item, I'm sure the teachers would let
him know it wasn't o.k. I never want him to feel that because he's doing something
different than the way most people do it that it's wrong or somehow "weird". On a whole
he seems to do most things different and has helped me move away from my "schooled"
mentality a bit, although I still need more nudging:)
I also liked the suggestion of expanding on whatever it is he is fixated on by finding out
more information about it, he is very much into looking things up on the computer right
now and I think he would definitely be open to it.
Ren,
We can afford it to a point, I mean we are definitely on a budget, but a few toilet paper
rolls or the like doesn't pose a major problem. I like the suggestion of using re-usable
items like paperclips, rubberbands, bandages, ect..I will see what of those items he might
embrace. Where can I find your article?
Melissa,
I liked your idea of putting the things into bags to be re-used, we actually have done that
with the papertowels, the other day he ripped them off the roll one by one and made a pile
on the floor so I just gathered them up and put them in a grocery bag and that's what
we've been using this week.
Lisa,
I didn't mention it because I forgot, but he loves to tear apart foam also and tore all of his
"rockets" from his stomp rocket kit into tiny pieces on the floor. A few months back he
painted a bunch of styrafoam balls for a solar system model and just recently has started
scraping all the paint off of them with his fingernails. I noticed one day that it actually
calmed him down a bit when we had friends over and he was starting to get agressive, he
spotted one of those balls and started going to town and after he had scraped all the paint
off he had calmed himself down. When I saw that I thought about going and buying more
balls, and if he's up for it I'm going to go this week.
Emilie,
I like your ideas of reusing the wax by melting it down, I think he would love it! Also he
has recently been doing a little bit of experimenting with food coloring and different
liquids so I came across this color mixer where you put water and then two different colors
in the two different compartments and then when you go to pour it they both pour into a
central container and mix. He loved mixing it and pouring it into the bathtub, then finally
just wanted the tablets to drop in the tub to dissolve. I think I will suggest other items like
cornstarch and bins and bottles, I know he will like it, he's always loved water play!
Also Emilie, I think that as long as your child is open to your suggestions that it's not like
your are making her fit your needs. Like with the tape, if she's unrolling it and making a
ball, you suggesting "hey, you know you could sculpt that into something?", I think just
opens up her world. Maybe she never thought that was an option. As long as your not
insisting she do what you suggest I think it's definitely inline with unschooling. I do that
with my son all the time and sometimes he's like "wow, let's do it" and other times he's like
"no, I want to do this with it" and I shut up:)
Thanks again everyone for all the helpful insights!
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
Debra Rossing
Just wanted to toss in 2 cents on the peeling/shredding thing: my hubby
(well past childhood chronologically) peels anything peelable in range -
soda bottle labels, cans, jars, anything. He has to keep his hands
occupied so that his mind can function in an orderly manner. If he tries
to keep his hands still, it takes too much energy and he loses his train
of thought easily. If he has something at hand to peel, twist, curl,
bend, tap, wiggle, fold, etc he's just fine. So, we have had small
containers full of bent and twisted paper clips, folded paper shapes,
and so on. Sometimes the "puttering" turns into something more - as when
he went from "fiddling" with craft sticks to using a drill to make holes
in the ends then fishing line to attach them together to create geodesic
type balls (and he recently covered one with white duct tape - looks
pretty cool); or currently as he's spending a lot of time creating
things from duct tape (we've all got new, customized, multi color game
cases for our hand held gaming systems plus I've got a nice "grab'n'go"
type wallet that holds the basics for quick trips when a purse isn't
needed).
Knowing that DH needs to have his hands busy when he thinks has been
helpful in understanding that DS needs to move when he thinks and talks
- he paces or bounces or whatever. One time, just to test my "theory", I
casually moved into his path while he was talking about something. He
lost his immediate sentence. I moved so he could continue on his circuit
and he resumed his discussion, picking up where he left off. It was
tempting to play with it a bit more but I didn't want to frustrate him
so I didn't. I do, however, sometimes tell him that I'm still listening
but I can't look at him because I'm getting dizzy watching him go around
and around the room. Or, I'll focus on an area that he passes through so
I can look at him some of the time but not watch him roaming the whole
time. On occasion, when I've really wanted to make eye contact while
discussing something specific, I'll suggest he be a basketball - he
stands in front of me and bounces up and down, tapping my outstretched
hand with his head so it looks as if I was 'dribbling' him. That way he
can move and I don't get so dizzy and I can look him in the face while
we talk.
Deb
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(well past childhood chronologically) peels anything peelable in range -
soda bottle labels, cans, jars, anything. He has to keep his hands
occupied so that his mind can function in an orderly manner. If he tries
to keep his hands still, it takes too much energy and he loses his train
of thought easily. If he has something at hand to peel, twist, curl,
bend, tap, wiggle, fold, etc he's just fine. So, we have had small
containers full of bent and twisted paper clips, folded paper shapes,
and so on. Sometimes the "puttering" turns into something more - as when
he went from "fiddling" with craft sticks to using a drill to make holes
in the ends then fishing line to attach them together to create geodesic
type balls (and he recently covered one with white duct tape - looks
pretty cool); or currently as he's spending a lot of time creating
things from duct tape (we've all got new, customized, multi color game
cases for our hand held gaming systems plus I've got a nice "grab'n'go"
type wallet that holds the basics for quick trips when a purse isn't
needed).
Knowing that DH needs to have his hands busy when he thinks has been
helpful in understanding that DS needs to move when he thinks and talks
- he paces or bounces or whatever. One time, just to test my "theory", I
casually moved into his path while he was talking about something. He
lost his immediate sentence. I moved so he could continue on his circuit
and he resumed his discussion, picking up where he left off. It was
tempting to play with it a bit more but I didn't want to frustrate him
so I didn't. I do, however, sometimes tell him that I'm still listening
but I can't look at him because I'm getting dizzy watching him go around
and around the room. Or, I'll focus on an area that he passes through so
I can look at him some of the time but not watch him roaming the whole
time. On occasion, when I've really wanted to make eye contact while
discussing something specific, I'll suggest he be a basketball - he
stands in front of me and bounces up and down, tapping my outstretched
hand with his head so it looks as if I was 'dribbling' him. That way he
can move and I don't get so dizzy and I can look him in the face while
we talk.
Deb
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Emilie <erugard@...> wrote:
helpful, here. I buy "Morgan's" spices, flour, etc there so she can
experiment to her heart's content without me going into shock when
she uses a whole container of whatever. Its also nice to have a
stockpile of itty-bitty containers to make some pre-mixes into. So
one day Mo and I can mix up various dry ingredients and colorings
and put them in small containers to re-mix later.
I do something similar with cleaning products - although that's as
much for safety as economy. We have spray bottles of vinegar, plain
water and soapy water for her to use and experiment with, and a
variety of sponges and rags.
I had to laugh about tape... we try to never be without tape around
here. Its probably the most heavily used "supply". When we're
feeling flush we stock up and get a few different kinds - duct and
electrical and masking and whatever catches our eyes - but plain ol'
clear tape is as essential as toilet paper in our house ;)
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
> She also likes toI've found, as Rob mentioned, shopping at dollar stores to be
> do what we call "mad scientist" in the bathtub with bins of
> cornstarch and water, food coloring in squeeze bottles, soap and
> other varying items.
helpful, here. I buy "Morgan's" spices, flour, etc there so she can
experiment to her heart's content without me going into shock when
she uses a whole container of whatever. Its also nice to have a
stockpile of itty-bitty containers to make some pre-mixes into. So
one day Mo and I can mix up various dry ingredients and colorings
and put them in small containers to re-mix later.
I do something similar with cleaning products - although that's as
much for safety as economy. We have spray bottles of vinegar, plain
water and soapy water for her to use and experiment with, and a
variety of sponges and rags.
I had to laugh about tape... we try to never be without tape around
here. Its probably the most heavily used "supply". When we're
feeling flush we stock up and get a few different kinds - duct and
electrical and masking and whatever catches our eyes - but plain ol'
clear tape is as essential as toilet paper in our house ;)
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
bobcatpris2000
Hi,
This thread about ruining/wasting things seems to be partly about the
sensory issue of something that focuses the hands and mind. It makes
me think of a story of my mom's when the issue of cigarettes would
come up years ago. She had a friend in college who suddenly started
smoking a lot. My mom was dismayed. When she asked her why she was
smoking, she said, "It gives me something to do with my hands". It
made me afraid to try smoking (not that that was my mom's intent in
telling the story) because I LOVE to have my hands busy!
Priscilla
This thread about ruining/wasting things seems to be partly about the
sensory issue of something that focuses the hands and mind. It makes
me think of a story of my mom's when the issue of cigarettes would
come up years ago. She had a friend in college who suddenly started
smoking a lot. My mom was dismayed. When she asked her why she was
smoking, she said, "It gives me something to do with my hands". It
made me afraid to try smoking (not that that was my mom's intent in
telling the story) because I LOVE to have my hands busy!
Priscilla
Julie v.
My mom said this same thing, after smoking for almost 40 years, when she quit she used
to buy boxes of straws and have them handy for twisting and turning and occasionally
chewing on.
Julie
--- In [email protected], "bobcatpris2000" <bobcatpris2000@...>
wrote:
to buy boxes of straws and have them handy for twisting and turning and occasionally
chewing on.
Julie
--- In [email protected], "bobcatpris2000" <bobcatpris2000@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This thread about ruining/wasting things seems to be partly about the
> sensory issue of something that focuses the hands and mind. It makes
> me think of a story of my mom's when the issue of cigarettes would
> come up years ago. She had a friend in college who suddenly started
> smoking a lot. My mom was dismayed. When she asked her why she was
> smoking, she said, "It gives me something to do with my hands". It
> made me afraid to try smoking (not that that was my mom's intent in
> telling the story) because I LOVE to have my hands busy!
>
> Priscilla
>