Not stopping behavior when someone says "stop"!
Julie v.
We are having a bit of a problem with ds (age 5) not listening when someone tells him to
stop doing whatever it is he is doing to them. It seems to be getting worse and dh and I
are just at a loss as to how to handle these situations.
For instance yesterday while at my mom's house his three cousins were there and just
about every 5 minutes someone was telling him to please stop doing what he was doing
and he would just laugh and continue. One example was when his cousin (also age 5) was
playing his gameboy and ds was watching him, then for some reason ds kept smacking
the gameboy while his cousin was playing it which was obviously upsetting to the cousin.
Ds also had his gameboy there, but didn't want to play it. When this happened I came over
and said "Hayden asked you to stop hitting his gameboy, when someone says stop you
need to stop right now", he just laughed and did it again. When this happens I feel I have
no alternative but to remove him from the situation, which he is totally opposed to,
kicking and yelling and saying to me "your stupid!", "I'm not going to listen to you!". He
has never been punished, but obviously the loss of autonomy sets him off. All I try to do
is talk to him in as few words as possible why he needs to stop when someone tells him to
stop, but he doesn't want to hear it. When this happens all he wants to do is run back and
continue with what he was doing, he isn't in the mindframe for having a conversation, so
in the end it just makes things worse and doesn't help, but I also feel that it's not an
option for him to continue with what he was doing, what are the alternatives?
He will also hit toys out of kids hands if it is something he wants to play with. I try to
empathize with him about how much he wants the toy and when the child is done with it
then he can play with it, but he will just continute to chase the kid around trying to hit it
out of their hands (he did this with his 2 year old cousin yesterday). Again I feel like I have
to physically stop him because the other child was being hurt. Some of the same
behaviors happen here at home with his little brother (20 months), but it's easier to just
re-direct him or talk to him because we don't have to physically remove him. Sometimes
we just pick up the 20 month old and move him somewhere else.
For the most part he seems to listen to kids older than him, but not kids younger than him
that he can "overpower". Him and his cousin who is 7 seemed to get along fine, but he
was constantly doing things to the 5 year old and 2 year old. Not sure why this is. Also
when we have the neighbor kids over he gets along fine with the older ones, but him and
the 4 year old next door seem to always have problems?
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
stop doing whatever it is he is doing to them. It seems to be getting worse and dh and I
are just at a loss as to how to handle these situations.
For instance yesterday while at my mom's house his three cousins were there and just
about every 5 minutes someone was telling him to please stop doing what he was doing
and he would just laugh and continue. One example was when his cousin (also age 5) was
playing his gameboy and ds was watching him, then for some reason ds kept smacking
the gameboy while his cousin was playing it which was obviously upsetting to the cousin.
Ds also had his gameboy there, but didn't want to play it. When this happened I came over
and said "Hayden asked you to stop hitting his gameboy, when someone says stop you
need to stop right now", he just laughed and did it again. When this happens I feel I have
no alternative but to remove him from the situation, which he is totally opposed to,
kicking and yelling and saying to me "your stupid!", "I'm not going to listen to you!". He
has never been punished, but obviously the loss of autonomy sets him off. All I try to do
is talk to him in as few words as possible why he needs to stop when someone tells him to
stop, but he doesn't want to hear it. When this happens all he wants to do is run back and
continue with what he was doing, he isn't in the mindframe for having a conversation, so
in the end it just makes things worse and doesn't help, but I also feel that it's not an
option for him to continue with what he was doing, what are the alternatives?
He will also hit toys out of kids hands if it is something he wants to play with. I try to
empathize with him about how much he wants the toy and when the child is done with it
then he can play with it, but he will just continute to chase the kid around trying to hit it
out of their hands (he did this with his 2 year old cousin yesterday). Again I feel like I have
to physically stop him because the other child was being hurt. Some of the same
behaviors happen here at home with his little brother (20 months), but it's easier to just
re-direct him or talk to him because we don't have to physically remove him. Sometimes
we just pick up the 20 month old and move him somewhere else.
For the most part he seems to listen to kids older than him, but not kids younger than him
that he can "overpower". Him and his cousin who is 7 seemed to get along fine, but he
was constantly doing things to the 5 year old and 2 year old. Not sure why this is. Also
when we have the neighbor kids over he gets along fine with the older ones, but him and
the 4 year old next door seem to always have problems?
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
marji
At 12:28 7/2/2007, you wrote:
stuff from him (since you already know this about him) and be
prepared with distractions. Telling him to stop is probably about as
effective as asking Niagara Falls to stop flowing. He is clearly not
ready to be with littler kids than he is. Could be that he's feeling
generally inferior to other older kids (just guessing now, I have no
way of knowing if this could be true or not) so he lords it over the
littler ones. Thing is, you can't reason with him about that.
I believe you *can* prevent it though, by being very, very present
with him (not in the next room or within earshot) when he's with
smaller kids and anticipating his behavior, and then being ready to
redirect him *before* he starts getting weird. And, redirecting
should be with something he *really* likes, not something he'll
resist. Perhaps you *can* talk with him about this, though, when
he's not in the situation, but I'm not even sure I'd do this with him
yet. Five years old is really, really little and young; I think I
would move more toward being the way you want him to be (one of my
favorite quotes is, "You must be what you want your children to
become") and pointing out when others are kind towards him. Also,
when you and he witness bullying behavior on TV or in a story, talk
about it what's uncool about it.
I believe he'll get it eventually with your loving support.
I hope that helps a little.
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>For instance yesterday while at my mom's house his three cousinsI think that it may be helpful for you to anticipate this kind of
>were there and just
>about every 5 minutes someone was telling him to please stop doing
>what he was doing
>and he would just laugh and continue.
stuff from him (since you already know this about him) and be
prepared with distractions. Telling him to stop is probably about as
effective as asking Niagara Falls to stop flowing. He is clearly not
ready to be with littler kids than he is. Could be that he's feeling
generally inferior to other older kids (just guessing now, I have no
way of knowing if this could be true or not) so he lords it over the
littler ones. Thing is, you can't reason with him about that.
I believe you *can* prevent it though, by being very, very present
with him (not in the next room or within earshot) when he's with
smaller kids and anticipating his behavior, and then being ready to
redirect him *before* he starts getting weird. And, redirecting
should be with something he *really* likes, not something he'll
resist. Perhaps you *can* talk with him about this, though, when
he's not in the situation, but I'm not even sure I'd do this with him
yet. Five years old is really, really little and young; I think I
would move more toward being the way you want him to be (one of my
favorite quotes is, "You must be what you want your children to
become") and pointing out when others are kind towards him. Also,
when you and he witness bullying behavior on TV or in a story, talk
about it what's uncool about it.
I believe he'll get it eventually with your loving support.
I hope that helps a little.
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~which he is totally opposed to, kicking and yelling and saying to me
"your stupid!", "I'm not going to listen to you!". He has never been
punished, but obviously the loss of autonomy sets him off. ~~
First of all, let me empathize!:) I have a small man that has had many
similar behaviors in those situations and it can tax your mommy
gentleness to the core. But hang in there, it does get better and they
learn new tools every year. Jalen is 6.5 now and our lives are
changing drastically as far as new friendships and outings.
What worked for us? Limiting contact with younger kids. It sounds
drastic, but he really just couldn't handle much of that kind of
stimulation. He was happy with a group of teens or older kids, but
anyone his age or younger was a disaster for a long time.
This last 6 months has been huge for us. We can go to park days with
our homeschool group and I don't follow him around every second. He
interacts with other kids and doesn't melt down or get angry. For the
first year we lived here, I pretty much followed him wherever he
wanted to go (and it was usually away from the group) or pushed him on
the swing while the other kids played with our group.
I know it can be very difficult to find ways to limit what distresses
him, but sometimes it's necessary for his own peace and your ability
to stay connected. I found that when we did need to be with a group
(for the other children's sake) I had to prepare myself to simply BE
with Jalen. It's hard to be "on" all the time, but that's just what
they need.
Make sure he has his own hand-held game system if possible. Show him
ways to connect with the other children through the game (you may have
to sit right there the entire time) and work at prevention. There are
times I used distraction "hey Jalen, want to help me mix the cake?"
but once he was in that intense zone, there was little to do but
remove him at times.
We used Rescue Remedy. We cuddled. We talked about what the other kids
expected and how to help him get what he wanted. We empathized. We
took walks and went on the swing. We dug in the dirt and jumped on the
trampoline. In short, we tried to meet him where he was.
I can't tell you how many times I sat in a back bedroom while he raged
for a while. These rages got less and less as he got older. His
"rages" lately have been a simple expression of anger and a
short-lived outburst that resolves itself in about 5 minutes. What a
change from even a year ago!
What I've realized with Jalen, is that removal from the situation FELT
like punishment to him. While I was only trying to protect the other
children (and believe me, they needed protection) it felt like a total
intrusion of his freedom to him. I'm sad for that. But at the same
time, he's learned (through time and his own development) that I
really didn't want to stop him from doing what he wanted, I only
needed him to give the other kids space (he has very little concept of
personal boundaries). This could only happen in it's own time. There
is no way to "teach" this to anyone....you just love them up and wait.:)
This doesn't work in every situation or for every child, but at this
point with Jalen (when he's in the middle of being intense and unable
to acknowledge a person yelling "STOP now") I can pick him up and kiss
his cheek, telling him "I love you" while redirecting his energy. That
sweet connection really works for us now.
While I'm giving him that hug or kiss, I can then say " I really need
you to hear me right now" or "I really need you to come out here with
me for just a minute" to give some space to the situation.
Your child may or may not be able to process the fact that the other
kids are frustrated. It seems that the more frustration and anger gets
directed at them, the more everything intensifies and builds. I've
talked with my other children about being gentle and telling him
they'll help him if he will give them space. Just knowing he is being
heard, seems to diffuse the energy a bit.
Hang in there. I feel like I'm just blathering, but I can SO readily
relate to the challenge it is to parent an intense child. They are so
interesting and beautiful and it hurts when other people can't see
that beauty in them.
What's so cool about my little man, is he is a huge catalyst for
growth in me. He is also AMAZING at honing in on people who are truly
respectful of him, while shunning those that aren't. We have found
some lovely friends who can truly honor him for who his IS. Those that
see his beauty and give him respect even when he's getting intense are
the people we prefer to be around.
I love that he has such a sensitivity to respectful behaviors. I know
these intense, energetic children have so much to give to the world,
just as all our children do. Keep on trusting that and finding ways to
meet him where he is today.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"your stupid!", "I'm not going to listen to you!". He has never been
punished, but obviously the loss of autonomy sets him off. ~~
First of all, let me empathize!:) I have a small man that has had many
similar behaviors in those situations and it can tax your mommy
gentleness to the core. But hang in there, it does get better and they
learn new tools every year. Jalen is 6.5 now and our lives are
changing drastically as far as new friendships and outings.
What worked for us? Limiting contact with younger kids. It sounds
drastic, but he really just couldn't handle much of that kind of
stimulation. He was happy with a group of teens or older kids, but
anyone his age or younger was a disaster for a long time.
This last 6 months has been huge for us. We can go to park days with
our homeschool group and I don't follow him around every second. He
interacts with other kids and doesn't melt down or get angry. For the
first year we lived here, I pretty much followed him wherever he
wanted to go (and it was usually away from the group) or pushed him on
the swing while the other kids played with our group.
I know it can be very difficult to find ways to limit what distresses
him, but sometimes it's necessary for his own peace and your ability
to stay connected. I found that when we did need to be with a group
(for the other children's sake) I had to prepare myself to simply BE
with Jalen. It's hard to be "on" all the time, but that's just what
they need.
Make sure he has his own hand-held game system if possible. Show him
ways to connect with the other children through the game (you may have
to sit right there the entire time) and work at prevention. There are
times I used distraction "hey Jalen, want to help me mix the cake?"
but once he was in that intense zone, there was little to do but
remove him at times.
We used Rescue Remedy. We cuddled. We talked about what the other kids
expected and how to help him get what he wanted. We empathized. We
took walks and went on the swing. We dug in the dirt and jumped on the
trampoline. In short, we tried to meet him where he was.
I can't tell you how many times I sat in a back bedroom while he raged
for a while. These rages got less and less as he got older. His
"rages" lately have been a simple expression of anger and a
short-lived outburst that resolves itself in about 5 minutes. What a
change from even a year ago!
What I've realized with Jalen, is that removal from the situation FELT
like punishment to him. While I was only trying to protect the other
children (and believe me, they needed protection) it felt like a total
intrusion of his freedom to him. I'm sad for that. But at the same
time, he's learned (through time and his own development) that I
really didn't want to stop him from doing what he wanted, I only
needed him to give the other kids space (he has very little concept of
personal boundaries). This could only happen in it's own time. There
is no way to "teach" this to anyone....you just love them up and wait.:)
This doesn't work in every situation or for every child, but at this
point with Jalen (when he's in the middle of being intense and unable
to acknowledge a person yelling "STOP now") I can pick him up and kiss
his cheek, telling him "I love you" while redirecting his energy. That
sweet connection really works for us now.
While I'm giving him that hug or kiss, I can then say " I really need
you to hear me right now" or "I really need you to come out here with
me for just a minute" to give some space to the situation.
Your child may or may not be able to process the fact that the other
kids are frustrated. It seems that the more frustration and anger gets
directed at them, the more everything intensifies and builds. I've
talked with my other children about being gentle and telling him
they'll help him if he will give them space. Just knowing he is being
heard, seems to diffuse the energy a bit.
Hang in there. I feel like I'm just blathering, but I can SO readily
relate to the challenge it is to parent an intense child. They are so
interesting and beautiful and it hurts when other people can't see
that beauty in them.
What's so cool about my little man, is he is a huge catalyst for
growth in me. He is also AMAZING at honing in on people who are truly
respectful of him, while shunning those that aren't. We have found
some lovely friends who can truly honor him for who his IS. Those that
see his beauty and give him respect even when he's getting intense are
the people we prefer to be around.
I love that he has such a sensitivity to respectful behaviors. I know
these intense, energetic children have so much to give to the world,
just as all our children do. Keep on trusting that and finding ways to
meet him where he is today.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~Telling him to stop is probably about as
effective as asking Niagara Falls to stop flowing. He is clearly not
ready to be with littler kids than he is~~
This is such good advice.
I just wanted to add that Jalen expressed to me very clearly that he
did NOT like little kids. He also does not like being "little". He's
the youngest in our home, with a feeling in him that he is larger than
life.:) That must be SO frustrating to be trapped in a little body
when your ideas and autonomy are all about BIGNESS.
He loves getting bigger. He talks about being taller than other
people, he WANTS to be grown up. This is totally opposite of all my
other children who never want to grow up.:)
He told me he HATED a little guy that stayed with us for a little
while. K was such a sweet, sweet boy, but Jalen couldn't STAND him
because he was little. I think for Jalen, these little people aren't
at his developmental level and he just can't understand it.
They play with his toys, or don't listen when he has a game
idea...they're too little to understand what he is saying, but he
expects them to understand. When they don't act the way HE believes is
necessary, it angers him. He simply doesn't have the ability to be
patient or understanding with anyone at a different developmental
level (unless they are older).
That's ok. We needed to protect the younger children from Jalen and
him from frustration for a long time. So we limited contact. Many of
my friends can attest to his intensity with younger kids.
Lately he's been fine. I still wouldn't turn my back on him with a
baby or small toddler. It's just not something he can handle.
That's what I mean by meeting them where they are, rather than trying
to make them be where we'd like.
Your child can't handle certain things right now. So you just have to
be proactive and limit the situations that frustrate. If a gathering
is creating a ton of negative energy, the entire point of gathering is
lost really. He might need more time one-on-one with you or just being
at home where his environment is more predictable.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
effective as asking Niagara Falls to stop flowing. He is clearly not
ready to be with littler kids than he is~~
This is such good advice.
I just wanted to add that Jalen expressed to me very clearly that he
did NOT like little kids. He also does not like being "little". He's
the youngest in our home, with a feeling in him that he is larger than
life.:) That must be SO frustrating to be trapped in a little body
when your ideas and autonomy are all about BIGNESS.
He loves getting bigger. He talks about being taller than other
people, he WANTS to be grown up. This is totally opposite of all my
other children who never want to grow up.:)
He told me he HATED a little guy that stayed with us for a little
while. K was such a sweet, sweet boy, but Jalen couldn't STAND him
because he was little. I think for Jalen, these little people aren't
at his developmental level and he just can't understand it.
They play with his toys, or don't listen when he has a game
idea...they're too little to understand what he is saying, but he
expects them to understand. When they don't act the way HE believes is
necessary, it angers him. He simply doesn't have the ability to be
patient or understanding with anyone at a different developmental
level (unless they are older).
That's ok. We needed to protect the younger children from Jalen and
him from frustration for a long time. So we limited contact. Many of
my friends can attest to his intensity with younger kids.
Lately he's been fine. I still wouldn't turn my back on him with a
baby or small toddler. It's just not something he can handle.
That's what I mean by meeting them where they are, rather than trying
to make them be where we'd like.
Your child can't handle certain things right now. So you just have to
be proactive and limit the situations that frustrate. If a gathering
is creating a ton of negative energy, the entire point of gathering is
lost really. He might need more time one-on-one with you or just being
at home where his environment is more predictable.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Julie v.
Thanks Marji! I kind of got stuck in the mode of trying to change him and that is
obviously not going to work. I agree with being present at all times with him interacting
with others and your suggestion of re-directing him to something that he really likes is
the key I think. My dh & I were trying to re-direct, but weren't being very successful
coming up with something that he wanted to do otherewise.
I've always tried to focus on the positive things that he does for others and will say "wow,
you sure made him happy when you did that", but your suggestion of talking about the
negative behaviors and how they make people feel I think will also help.
I think your assumption about him feeling inferior might be something I need to look at
more closely. When he is around older kids he knows well, they have no problem playing
together and working things out, when he is around older kids he doesn't know it's a
different story and that is I think when he starts to focus on the little kids wherever we are.
When we are around older kids he doesn't know that's when he starts "annoying" the little
kids because he doesn't have anyone else to play with. One exception is that he loves
babies! If there is a baby around he will fawn all over them very gently.
Thanks again,
Julie
obviously not going to work. I agree with being present at all times with him interacting
with others and your suggestion of re-directing him to something that he really likes is
the key I think. My dh & I were trying to re-direct, but weren't being very successful
coming up with something that he wanted to do otherewise.
I've always tried to focus on the positive things that he does for others and will say "wow,
you sure made him happy when you did that", but your suggestion of talking about the
negative behaviors and how they make people feel I think will also help.
I think your assumption about him feeling inferior might be something I need to look at
more closely. When he is around older kids he knows well, they have no problem playing
together and working things out, when he is around older kids he doesn't know it's a
different story and that is I think when he starts to focus on the little kids wherever we are.
When we are around older kids he doesn't know that's when he starts "annoying" the little
kids because he doesn't have anyone else to play with. One exception is that he loves
babies! If there is a baby around he will fawn all over them very gently.
Thanks again,
Julie
--- In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
>
> At 12:28 7/2/2007, you wrote:
> >For instance yesterday while at my mom's house his three cousins
> >were there and just
> >about every 5 minutes someone was telling him to please stop doing
> >what he was doing
> >and he would just laugh and continue.
>
> I think that it may be helpful for you to anticipate this kind of
> stuff from him (since you already know this about him) and be
> prepared with distractions. Telling him to stop is probably about as
> effective as asking Niagara Falls to stop flowing. He is clearly not
> ready to be with littler kids than he is. Could be that he's feeling
> generally inferior to other older kids (just guessing now, I have no
> way of knowing if this could be true or not) so he lords it over the
> littler ones. Thing is, you can't reason with him about that.
>
> I believe you *can* prevent it though, by being very, very present
> with him (not in the next room or within earshot) when he's with
> smaller kids and anticipating his behavior, and then being ready to
> redirect him *before* he starts getting weird. And, redirecting
> should be with something he *really* likes, not something he'll
> resist. Perhaps you *can* talk with him about this, though, when
> he's not in the situation, but I'm not even sure I'd do this with him
> yet. Five years old is really, really little and young; I think I
> would move more toward being the way you want him to be (one of my
> favorite quotes is, "You must be what you want your children to
> become") and pointing out when others are kind towards him. Also,
> when you and he witness bullying behavior on TV or in a story, talk
> about it what's uncool about it.
>
> I believe he'll get it eventually with your loving support.
>
> I hope that helps a little.
>
> Marji
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Julie v.
Thanks you so much for your post Ren. I definitely needed some empathizing after this
weekend!
Your description of your son definitely sounds similar to mine. I have pinpointed certain
things just by being able to write my original post and read the responses. If he feels
uncomfotable in a situation or doesn't know the kids then he either is very shy or very
aggressive. For the most part if he knows the kids well, at any age, he seems to do fine.
Mainly I guess it's if he knows the older kids well then he plays with them and it seems to
distract him from being aggressive with the little ones. One exception is that he loves
babies and is for the most part very gentle with them.
We have a great group of unschooling familes that we hang out with occasionally and
apart from a couple of 3 year olds that he seems to be aggressive with, he gets along with
all the kids.
I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see his cousins that often
and since the parents are constantly punishing, blaming & comparing the kids they in turn
do the same thing with my son and it sets him off. Also they were getting in trouble for
doing some things that my son is free to do like using "potty" language. Mind you this
isn't swearing, which I don't censor either in my son, he just doesn't swear much, this is
just kids saying "poo poo head" or "your a fart head" and all of them laughing about it only
the cousins get punished if the parents hear. So again, in turn when my son uses "potty"
language they come and tell me or their parents in order for him to get punished like they
do and he will get aggressive yet again.
I also see him intensify if someone is insinuating that he is being "mean", I think most of
his behaviors aren't intended to hurt or be mean, just more like playing a little too rough,
but if he senses someone is accusing him of being mean then the behaviors worsen or
intensify. That is why we too prefer to be around those that honor and respect him
especially when he is being intense, not giving him the impression that he's a mean
person, but rather just a child that is still growing and learning to socialize.
He does have a gameboy and I've noticed that here at our house if he is feeling
overwhelmed or getting to the point of being aggressive he will get it out or go downstairs
and get on the computer to calm down. When we are at other people's houses then he
doesn't have that option. Yesterday him and his two cousins all had their gameboys, but
Damek didn't want to play his, I'm thinking it's time to get some new games as he seems
bored with the ones he has.
Thanks for "blathering" on, this post really helped me to switch gears. I've been slowing
getting more & more focused on "how can I stop this" and I know that is not where I want
to be.
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
weekend!
Your description of your son definitely sounds similar to mine. I have pinpointed certain
things just by being able to write my original post and read the responses. If he feels
uncomfotable in a situation or doesn't know the kids then he either is very shy or very
aggressive. For the most part if he knows the kids well, at any age, he seems to do fine.
Mainly I guess it's if he knows the older kids well then he plays with them and it seems to
distract him from being aggressive with the little ones. One exception is that he loves
babies and is for the most part very gentle with them.
We have a great group of unschooling familes that we hang out with occasionally and
apart from a couple of 3 year olds that he seems to be aggressive with, he gets along with
all the kids.
I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see his cousins that often
and since the parents are constantly punishing, blaming & comparing the kids they in turn
do the same thing with my son and it sets him off. Also they were getting in trouble for
doing some things that my son is free to do like using "potty" language. Mind you this
isn't swearing, which I don't censor either in my son, he just doesn't swear much, this is
just kids saying "poo poo head" or "your a fart head" and all of them laughing about it only
the cousins get punished if the parents hear. So again, in turn when my son uses "potty"
language they come and tell me or their parents in order for him to get punished like they
do and he will get aggressive yet again.
I also see him intensify if someone is insinuating that he is being "mean", I think most of
his behaviors aren't intended to hurt or be mean, just more like playing a little too rough,
but if he senses someone is accusing him of being mean then the behaviors worsen or
intensify. That is why we too prefer to be around those that honor and respect him
especially when he is being intense, not giving him the impression that he's a mean
person, but rather just a child that is still growing and learning to socialize.
He does have a gameboy and I've noticed that here at our house if he is feeling
overwhelmed or getting to the point of being aggressive he will get it out or go downstairs
and get on the computer to calm down. When we are at other people's houses then he
doesn't have that option. Yesterday him and his two cousins all had their gameboys, but
Damek didn't want to play his, I'm thinking it's time to get some new games as he seems
bored with the ones he has.
Thanks for "blathering" on, this post really helped me to switch gears. I've been slowing
getting more & more focused on "how can I stop this" and I know that is not where I want
to be.
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~which he is totally opposed to, kicking and yelling and saying to me
> "your stupid!", "I'm not going to listen to you!". He has never been
> punished, but obviously the loss of autonomy sets him off. ~~
>
>
> First of all, let me empathize!:) I have a small man that has had many
> similar behaviors in those situations and it can tax your mommy
> gentleness to the core. But hang in there, it does get better and they
> learn new tools every year. Jalen is 6.5 now and our lives are
> changing drastically as far as new friendships and outings.
>
> What worked for us? Limiting contact with younger kids. It sounds
> drastic, but he really just couldn't handle much of that kind of
> stimulation. He was happy with a group of teens or older kids, but
> anyone his age or younger was a disaster for a long time.
>
> This last 6 months has been huge for us. We can go to park days with
> our homeschool group and I don't follow him around every second. He
> interacts with other kids and doesn't melt down or get angry. For the
> first year we lived here, I pretty much followed him wherever he
> wanted to go (and it was usually away from the group) or pushed him on
> the swing while the other kids played with our group.
>
> I know it can be very difficult to find ways to limit what distresses
> him, but sometimes it's necessary for his own peace and your ability
> to stay connected. I found that when we did need to be with a group
> (for the other children's sake) I had to prepare myself to simply BE
> with Jalen. It's hard to be "on" all the time, but that's just what
> they need.
>
> Make sure he has his own hand-held game system if possible. Show him
> ways to connect with the other children through the game (you may have
> to sit right there the entire time) and work at prevention. There are
> times I used distraction "hey Jalen, want to help me mix the cake?"
> but once he was in that intense zone, there was little to do but
> remove him at times.
>
> We used Rescue Remedy. We cuddled. We talked about what the other kids
> expected and how to help him get what he wanted. We empathized. We
> took walks and went on the swing. We dug in the dirt and jumped on the
> trampoline. In short, we tried to meet him where he was.
>
> I can't tell you how many times I sat in a back bedroom while he raged
> for a while. These rages got less and less as he got older. His
> "rages" lately have been a simple expression of anger and a
> short-lived outburst that resolves itself in about 5 minutes. What a
> change from even a year ago!
>
> What I've realized with Jalen, is that removal from the situation FELT
> like punishment to him. While I was only trying to protect the other
> children (and believe me, they needed protection) it felt like a total
> intrusion of his freedom to him. I'm sad for that. But at the same
> time, he's learned (through time and his own development) that I
> really didn't want to stop him from doing what he wanted, I only
> needed him to give the other kids space (he has very little concept of
> personal boundaries). This could only happen in it's own time. There
> is no way to "teach" this to anyone....you just love them up and wait.:)
>
> This doesn't work in every situation or for every child, but at this
> point with Jalen (when he's in the middle of being intense and unable
> to acknowledge a person yelling "STOP now") I can pick him up and kiss
> his cheek, telling him "I love you" while redirecting his energy. That
> sweet connection really works for us now.
>
> While I'm giving him that hug or kiss, I can then say " I really need
> you to hear me right now" or "I really need you to come out here with
> me for just a minute" to give some space to the situation.
>
> Your child may or may not be able to process the fact that the other
> kids are frustrated. It seems that the more frustration and anger gets
> directed at them, the more everything intensifies and builds. I've
> talked with my other children about being gentle and telling him
> they'll help him if he will give them space. Just knowing he is being
> heard, seems to diffuse the energy a bit.
>
> Hang in there. I feel like I'm just blathering, but I can SO readily
> relate to the challenge it is to parent an intense child. They are so
> interesting and beautiful and it hurts when other people can't see
> that beauty in them.
>
> What's so cool about my little man, is he is a huge catalyst for
> growth in me. He is also AMAZING at honing in on people who are truly
> respectful of him, while shunning those that aren't. We have found
> some lovely friends who can truly honor him for who his IS. Those that
> see his beauty and give him respect even when he's getting intense are
> the people we prefer to be around.
>
> I love that he has such a sensitivity to respectful behaviors. I know
> these intense, energetic children have so much to give to the world,
> just as all our children do. Keep on trusting that and finding ways to
> meet him where he is today.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Ren Allen
~~I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see
his cousins that often and since the parents are constantly punishing,
blaming & comparing the kids they in turn do the same thing with my
son and it sets him off. ~~
Ah yes. Jalen is extremely sensitive to that sort of thing. I would
definitely try to limit contact as much as possibly, until he's old
enough to have tools for dealing with that. *I* have a hard time being
around people that dole out punishments readily!
I also found that writing things down helped me gain clarity that gave
me more tools for dealing with issues the next time around. I'm glad
you can see him for the beautiful and sensitive person he is, rather
than trying to change him to be something he isn't.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
his cousins that often and since the parents are constantly punishing,
blaming & comparing the kids they in turn do the same thing with my
son and it sets him off. ~~
Ah yes. Jalen is extremely sensitive to that sort of thing. I would
definitely try to limit contact as much as possibly, until he's old
enough to have tools for dealing with that. *I* have a hard time being
around people that dole out punishments readily!
I also found that writing things down helped me gain clarity that gave
me more tools for dealing with issues the next time around. I'm glad
you can see him for the beautiful and sensitive person he is, rather
than trying to change him to be something he isn't.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Julie v.
We do try to limit contact, the only time we get together is at my mom's house and we
actually hadn't seen them since Easter (even though they only live about 5 blocks away
from us), it's just this weekend was my nephews birthday and then yesterday my brother
and his wife were in town so we all got together. I'm lucky in the fact that my mom seems
to really understand, even though she's not on board with all of our parenting ideals, but
she has in the past for minor holidays or when she just wants to see the grandchildren
invited us to come on different days to keep the peace.
He is definitely beautiful & sensitive, always has been and for the most part is loving and
kind with us and people he has accepted and feels comfortable with. I want to continue to
celebrate him as he is and help him gain the necessary tools to help navigate the social
world when he is ready.
Thanks for the dialogue, I've learned a lot today and have already begun writing things
down for future reference.
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
actually hadn't seen them since Easter (even though they only live about 5 blocks away
from us), it's just this weekend was my nephews birthday and then yesterday my brother
and his wife were in town so we all got together. I'm lucky in the fact that my mom seems
to really understand, even though she's not on board with all of our parenting ideals, but
she has in the past for minor holidays or when she just wants to see the grandchildren
invited us to come on different days to keep the peace.
He is definitely beautiful & sensitive, always has been and for the most part is loving and
kind with us and people he has accepted and feels comfortable with. I want to continue to
celebrate him as he is and help him gain the necessary tools to help navigate the social
world when he is ready.
Thanks for the dialogue, I've learned a lot today and have already begun writing things
down for future reference.
Julie
http://lerendzonderschool.blogspot.com/
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see
> his cousins that often and since the parents are constantly punishing,
> blaming & comparing the kids they in turn do the same thing with my
> son and it sets him off. ~~
>
> Ah yes. Jalen is extremely sensitive to that sort of thing. I would
> definitely try to limit contact as much as possibly, until he's old
> enough to have tools for dealing with that. *I* have a hard time being
> around people that dole out punishments readily!
>
> I also found that writing things down helped me gain clarity that gave
> me more tools for dealing with issues the next time around. I'm glad
> you can see him for the beautiful and sensitive person he is, rather
> than trying to change him to be something he isn't.:)
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Melissa
Julie,
We just had a similar weekend at my in-laws, and indeed, it has taken me this many days
to recover and be willing to get online. AND we came back a day early!
What is most painful is that one set of cousins wants desperately to come live with us, the
boy was rambling on and on about what a 'good servant' he could be for me, making me
koolaid and sandwiches whenever I want. What eight year old thinks on those terms????
It's sick, and I'm still sick. I'm exhausted from being the only adult who was involved with
19 kids, and being kind and compassionate with these poor guys. I could go on and on,
and we were there for less than 24 hours.
Melissa
We just had a similar weekend at my in-laws, and indeed, it has taken me this many days
to recover and be willing to get online. AND we came back a day early!
What is most painful is that one set of cousins wants desperately to come live with us, the
boy was rambling on and on about what a 'good servant' he could be for me, making me
koolaid and sandwiches whenever I want. What eight year old thinks on those terms????
It's sick, and I'm still sick. I'm exhausted from being the only adult who was involved with
19 kids, and being kind and compassionate with these poor guys. I could go on and on,
and we were there for less than 24 hours.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@...> wrote:
>
> I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see his cousins that often
> and since the parents are constantly punishing, blaming & comparing the kids they in
turn
> do the same thing with my son and it sets him off. Also they were getting in trouble for
> doing some things that my son is free to do like using "potty" language. Mind you this
> isn't swearing, which I don't censor either in my son, he just doesn't swear much, this is
> just kids saying "poo poo head" or "your a fart head" and all of them laughing about it
only
> the cousins get punished if the parents hear. So again, in turn when my son uses
"potty"
> language they come and tell me or their parents in order for him to get punished like
they
> do and he will get aggressive yet again.
>
Julie v.
Wow! 19 kids, sounds exhausting! Atleast they had a different sort of parent role model
to see in you, that people are in fact kind to children and want to spend time with them.
That's sad that the cousins want to come live with you, it says a lot about how they feel
about their lives and parents. It's funny, my son who is 5 loves to play with the neighbor
kids, but won't go to any of their houses, he always has to play at our house, even when
they invite him over there he says "no, we can play here", and actually the neighbor kids all
want to play here not at their own houses, it's just that the parents will make the kids ask
Damek to come over I guess to balance it out so their not always at our house.
Julie
to see in you, that people are in fact kind to children and want to spend time with them.
That's sad that the cousins want to come live with you, it says a lot about how they feel
about their lives and parents. It's funny, my son who is 5 loves to play with the neighbor
kids, but won't go to any of their houses, he always has to play at our house, even when
they invite him over there he says "no, we can play here", and actually the neighbor kids all
want to play here not at their own houses, it's just that the parents will make the kids ask
Damek to come over I guess to balance it out so their not always at our house.
Julie
--- In [email protected], "Melissa" <autismhelp@...> wrote:
>
> Julie,
>
> We just had a similar weekend at my in-laws, and indeed, it has taken me this many
days
> to recover and be willing to get online. AND we came back a day early!
> What is most painful is that one set of cousins wants desperately to come live with us,
the
> boy was rambling on and on about what a 'good servant' he could be for me, making me
> koolaid and sandwiches whenever I want. What eight year old thinks on those terms????
> It's sick, and I'm still sick. I'm exhausted from being the only adult who was involved
with
> 19 kids, and being kind and compassionate with these poor guys. I could go on and on,
> and we were there for less than 24 hours.
>
> Melissa
>
> --- In [email protected], "Julie v." <jlvw@> wrote:
> >
> > I think one of the triggers to this weekend was that he doesn't see his cousins that
often
> > and since the parents are constantly punishing, blaming & comparing the kids they in
> turn
> > do the same thing with my son and it sets him off. Also they were getting in trouble
for
> > doing some things that my son is free to do like using "potty" language. Mind you
this
> > isn't swearing, which I don't censor either in my son, he just doesn't swear much, this
is
> > just kids saying "poo poo head" or "your a fart head" and all of them laughing about it
> only
> > the cousins get punished if the parents hear. So again, in turn when my son uses
> "potty"
> > language they come and tell me or their parents in order for him to get punished like
> they
> > do and he will get aggressive yet again.
> >
>