Over protecting ???
seccotine_ch
Hello everyone
I haven't benn there for a while , but the academic term is over and
I turn back to you with pleasure and relief (I don't know many people
favorable to unschooling ...)
My sisters, in particular, don't understand what we are doing. I had
an awful discussion with one of them and my brother-in-law ... I
didn't want to convince them, I just wanted them to trust me, to give
my husband and I some credit about the decisions we take for our own
family. I thought after that discussion that I should simply tell
them to get information about unschooling before deciding that I'm
about to turn my children into criminal or idiots.
I had another discussion, though, which made me think and I would
like to have your always-appreciated-opinion about it.
I discussed with another sister of mine who told me how worried she
was about her younger daughter, who is 14. According to my sister, my
niece only do things when she is obliged to. For instance : she is
supposed to wash the dishes when she is alone at noon and doesn't do
it, doesn't thank my sister when she washes them for her; the evening
before, she was talking on the phone and she went on talking even
though my sister asked her to join them for the evening meal, but
when my brother-in-law said, very drily "You have 30 seconds", she
hang up the phone ... She had troubles at school because she didn't
do her homeworks and had an attitude with her teachers; until my
sister and her husband decided to punish her for every bad remark on
her "carnet" by diminishing her pocket-money, etc.
I deeply disagree with the measures and the tone, and the
whole "repressive" thing. Actually, my sister didn't really believe
in it either, she is the more understanding of my three sisters about
my educational choices, the fact that I still breastfeed my little
one, that she still sleeps in our room, that I don't spank my kids,
etc. (but not the fact that I don't send them to school ;p).
The problem is that it works : my niece does have better grades, and
a more appropriate behaviour, etc.
I wouldn't like to give you the wrong feeling about my sister, who is
a very concerned mother, who deeply love her kids and who would
protect them over her life ... but she can be hard, sometimes,
primarily with herself.
My sister doesn't like being hard with her daughter, but when she
sees that her behavior has changed, she asks herself if she hasn't
been over-protective with her after her father's suicide. She is
convinced that over-protecting children is not good for them, that it
is part of our parenting job to let them have bad experiences, that
we can't avoid it and that, if we try to keep them safe at all cost,
they will turn into "dysfunctional" adults - and she can give me some
examples which, I have to say, are a bit frightening. We decided, at
the end of our talk, that kids needed some sort of protection, but
that, sometimes, parents are protecting themselves more than their
kids, taking more care of their own fears than of their child
developmental needs.
Anyway, after that discussion I was wondering if I was not too
perfectionist in keeping my children away from the school experience
and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinks that
school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kids NEED
to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment to grow
stronger ?
(As I writing it, I realize that it doesn't make sense, but I would
like to read you about this anyway, really). Do you understand what
my concern is ? Can we put our kids at risk by trying to protect
them ?
Many thanks for your answers - and, as always, for reading my awkward
sentences :)
Helen from Switzerland, mother of Sylvain (6 yo), Cyrielle (4 yo) and
Circé (18 mo)
I haven't benn there for a while , but the academic term is over and
I turn back to you with pleasure and relief (I don't know many people
favorable to unschooling ...)
My sisters, in particular, don't understand what we are doing. I had
an awful discussion with one of them and my brother-in-law ... I
didn't want to convince them, I just wanted them to trust me, to give
my husband and I some credit about the decisions we take for our own
family. I thought after that discussion that I should simply tell
them to get information about unschooling before deciding that I'm
about to turn my children into criminal or idiots.
I had another discussion, though, which made me think and I would
like to have your always-appreciated-opinion about it.
I discussed with another sister of mine who told me how worried she
was about her younger daughter, who is 14. According to my sister, my
niece only do things when she is obliged to. For instance : she is
supposed to wash the dishes when she is alone at noon and doesn't do
it, doesn't thank my sister when she washes them for her; the evening
before, she was talking on the phone and she went on talking even
though my sister asked her to join them for the evening meal, but
when my brother-in-law said, very drily "You have 30 seconds", she
hang up the phone ... She had troubles at school because she didn't
do her homeworks and had an attitude with her teachers; until my
sister and her husband decided to punish her for every bad remark on
her "carnet" by diminishing her pocket-money, etc.
I deeply disagree with the measures and the tone, and the
whole "repressive" thing. Actually, my sister didn't really believe
in it either, she is the more understanding of my three sisters about
my educational choices, the fact that I still breastfeed my little
one, that she still sleeps in our room, that I don't spank my kids,
etc. (but not the fact that I don't send them to school ;p).
The problem is that it works : my niece does have better grades, and
a more appropriate behaviour, etc.
I wouldn't like to give you the wrong feeling about my sister, who is
a very concerned mother, who deeply love her kids and who would
protect them over her life ... but she can be hard, sometimes,
primarily with herself.
My sister doesn't like being hard with her daughter, but when she
sees that her behavior has changed, she asks herself if she hasn't
been over-protective with her after her father's suicide. She is
convinced that over-protecting children is not good for them, that it
is part of our parenting job to let them have bad experiences, that
we can't avoid it and that, if we try to keep them safe at all cost,
they will turn into "dysfunctional" adults - and she can give me some
examples which, I have to say, are a bit frightening. We decided, at
the end of our talk, that kids needed some sort of protection, but
that, sometimes, parents are protecting themselves more than their
kids, taking more care of their own fears than of their child
developmental needs.
Anyway, after that discussion I was wondering if I was not too
perfectionist in keeping my children away from the school experience
and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinks that
school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kids NEED
to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment to grow
stronger ?
(As I writing it, I realize that it doesn't make sense, but I would
like to read you about this anyway, really). Do you understand what
my concern is ? Can we put our kids at risk by trying to protect
them ?
Many thanks for your answers - and, as always, for reading my awkward
sentences :)
Helen from Switzerland, mother of Sylvain (6 yo), Cyrielle (4 yo) and
Circé (18 mo)
Su Penn
On Jun 24, 2007, at 4:10 PM, seccotine_ch wrote:
chatting at our local homeschool group's park day last week, some of
the moms wondering whether they were sheltering their children too much.
I thought about it some afterward. One of the concerned moms lives in
a home with no television. They raise all their own meat. The family
lives on a very modest budget and don't see movies, go to the mall,
things like that. But I thought later about what her kids are _not_
sheltered from. They're not sheltered from the reality of where their
food comes from: they raise the turkeys and lambs, see them delivered
to the butcher, and eat them out of the freezer all year long.
They're not sheltered from economic reality, as they see their
parents making hard choices about finances; the family has been
living without hot water for some weeks now while they work on
replacing a worn-out hot water heater, for instance. How many kids
who are "in the world" more are so in touch with the economic
implications of normal crises like that?
The thing this family does is bring the children into all of those
decisions, or at least make them visible to the kids. The whole
family recently had a discussion about whether to get TV, for
instance. You could argue that the discussion was a bit loaded, since
all the kids know about TV is what their parents have told them, but
they talked very concretely about what they would give up in terms of
the money to have TV and the time spent watching, and decided not to
get TV at this time.
The kids know that the reason they don't have hot water right now is
because they don't have the money right now. They expect to have hot
water back in the house by fall.
The family lives a certain kind of life. Very different from my
family's, certainly. But both of us share a goal of integrating kids
into the economy of the household, not having secrets, letting them
see how we live our lives. That's not sheltered, I don't think, in
the sense that it will leave kids unprepared to cope.
Not sure that exactly speaks to your concern, but it's what I've been
thinking about this week.
Su
mom of Eric, 6, and Carl, 3
> (As I writing it, I realize that it doesn't make sense, but I wouldI just had a chance to think about this because it came up during
> like to read you about this anyway, really). Do you understand what
> my concern is ? Can we put our kids at risk by trying to protect
> them ?
chatting at our local homeschool group's park day last week, some of
the moms wondering whether they were sheltering their children too much.
I thought about it some afterward. One of the concerned moms lives in
a home with no television. They raise all their own meat. The family
lives on a very modest budget and don't see movies, go to the mall,
things like that. But I thought later about what her kids are _not_
sheltered from. They're not sheltered from the reality of where their
food comes from: they raise the turkeys and lambs, see them delivered
to the butcher, and eat them out of the freezer all year long.
They're not sheltered from economic reality, as they see their
parents making hard choices about finances; the family has been
living without hot water for some weeks now while they work on
replacing a worn-out hot water heater, for instance. How many kids
who are "in the world" more are so in touch with the economic
implications of normal crises like that?
The thing this family does is bring the children into all of those
decisions, or at least make them visible to the kids. The whole
family recently had a discussion about whether to get TV, for
instance. You could argue that the discussion was a bit loaded, since
all the kids know about TV is what their parents have told them, but
they talked very concretely about what they would give up in terms of
the money to have TV and the time spent watching, and decided not to
get TV at this time.
The kids know that the reason they don't have hot water right now is
because they don't have the money right now. They expect to have hot
water back in the house by fall.
The family lives a certain kind of life. Very different from my
family's, certainly. But both of us share a goal of integrating kids
into the economy of the household, not having secrets, letting them
see how we live our lives. That's not sheltered, I don't think, in
the sense that it will leave kids unprepared to cope.
Not sure that exactly speaks to your concern, but it's what I've been
thinking about this week.
Su
mom of Eric, 6, and Carl, 3
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "seccotine_ch"
<seccotine@...> wrote:
without adding school junk on top of it. My "always unschooled" 5yo
has been to a grandma's funeral, seen her life turn upside down from
adding a new (teen) family member, had people be rude to her bc
she's a child, had people be thoughtlessly cruel to her bc she's a
child, had other children hurt her and her feelings. She's certainly
learned from those experiences and one of the things she's learned
is that her parents are there to help, if she needs them. She's
pretty good at deciding about that "if".
My stepson has lived in a crummy environment, where shame, guilt and
outright violence were normal. He's been in school and seen the
same. Its made him insecure, not strong. He struggles to believe
he's anything other than "the big, dumb bad kid". Unschooling is
helping him heal from that, but he's still pretty tentative and
fragile in a lot of ways.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<seccotine@...> wrote:
>> Anyway, after that discussion I was wondering if I was not tooexperience
> perfectionist in keeping my children away from the school
> and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinksthat
> school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kidsNEED
> to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment togrow
> stronger ?There's plenty of hurt and sadness that goes on in normal life,
without adding school junk on top of it. My "always unschooled" 5yo
has been to a grandma's funeral, seen her life turn upside down from
adding a new (teen) family member, had people be rude to her bc
she's a child, had people be thoughtlessly cruel to her bc she's a
child, had other children hurt her and her feelings. She's certainly
learned from those experiences and one of the things she's learned
is that her parents are there to help, if she needs them. She's
pretty good at deciding about that "if".
My stepson has lived in a crummy environment, where shame, guilt and
outright violence were normal. He's been in school and seen the
same. Its made him insecure, not strong. He struggles to believe
he's anything other than "the big, dumb bad kid". Unschooling is
helping him heal from that, but he's still pretty tentative and
fragile in a lot of ways.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Cameron Parham
"and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinks
that school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kids
NEED to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment to
grow stronger ? "
Where in adult life is it socially acceptable to treat a person as cruelly as is common in school from both students and teachers? I have never experienced in adult life the cruelty and casual callousness that were commonplace in school. I agree that we must heal from that to be whole (whether we were on the giving or receiving end of the callousness). It is a maladaptive look at life as far as I can see, not a real-life training ground at all. And as is abundantly said elsewhere, life's challenges and sadness will find us all. We don't need an artificial 'callousness boot camp'! Also, when one of my kids experiences a shy period, or a time without many friends, or a period of latency in learning some topic, I've had family members quick to blame it on staying at home. A gentle honest reminder that I certainly experienced those things at times, and I was conventionally schooled, can help put things in perspective. Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Meredith <meredith@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:58:47 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Over protecting ???
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "seccotine_ch"
<seccotine@. ..> wrote:
without adding school junk on top of it. My "always unschooled" 5yo
has been to a grandma's funeral, seen her life turn upside down from
adding a new (teen) family member, had people be rude to her bc
she's a child, had people be thoughtlessly cruel to her bc she's a
child, had other children hurt her and her feelings. She's certainly
learned from those experiences and one of the things she's learned
is that her parents are there to help, if she needs them. She's
pretty good at deciding about that "if".
My stepson has lived in a crummy environment, where shame, guilt and
outright violence were normal. He's been in school and seen the
same. Its made him insecure, not strong. He struggles to believe
he's anything other than "the big, dumb bad kid". Unschooling is
helping him heal from that, but he's still pretty tentative and
fragile in a lot of ways.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kids
NEED to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment to
grow stronger ? "
Where in adult life is it socially acceptable to treat a person as cruelly as is common in school from both students and teachers? I have never experienced in adult life the cruelty and casual callousness that were commonplace in school. I agree that we must heal from that to be whole (whether we were on the giving or receiving end of the callousness). It is a maladaptive look at life as far as I can see, not a real-life training ground at all. And as is abundantly said elsewhere, life's challenges and sadness will find us all. We don't need an artificial 'callousness boot camp'! Also, when one of my kids experiences a shy period, or a time without many friends, or a period of latency in learning some topic, I've had family members quick to blame it on staying at home. A gentle honest reminder that I certainly experienced those things at times, and I was conventionally schooled, can help put things in perspective. Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Meredith <meredith@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:58:47 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Over protecting ???
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "seccotine_ch"
<seccotine@. ..> wrote:
>> Anyway, after that discussion I was wondering if I was not tooexperience
> perfectionist in keeping my children away from the school
> and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinksthat
> school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kidsNEED
> to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment togrow
> stronger ?There's plenty of hurt and sadness that goes on in normal life,
without adding school junk on top of it. My "always unschooled" 5yo
has been to a grandma's funeral, seen her life turn upside down from
adding a new (teen) family member, had people be rude to her bc
she's a child, had people be thoughtlessly cruel to her bc she's a
child, had other children hurt her and her feelings. She's certainly
learned from those experiences and one of the things she's learned
is that her parents are there to help, if she needs them. She's
pretty good at deciding about that "if".
My stepson has lived in a crummy environment, where shame, guilt and
outright violence were normal. He's been in school and seen the
same. Its made him insecure, not strong. He struggles to believe
he's anything other than "the big, dumb bad kid". Unschooling is
helping him heal from that, but he's still pretty tentative and
fragile in a lot of ways.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seccotine_ch
Thank you for your answers, really.
I realised while writing my post that it didn't really make sense,
but I don't like to stay with this ugly doubtful voice whispering
inside me ... As I have already told you, there are no homeschooling
people around me, not even talking about "unschooling" people. And my
family is not very supportive, to say the least.
I thought about all this today and I also realised that my doubts
fell into the idea of "letting them go to school so they will learn
what the real life is" which, we know, is not true :) But sometimes,
how would I say that ... I have the feeling that I ask so much more
for them than other people I know - I can't help thinking that I ask
too much and that there must be something wrong about it.
Again, thanks. Your insight is immensely valuable for me and I am
terribly frustrated to be so limited in my writing and in the
contribution I can make. I hope others will go on writing about this
subject ...
Helen, from Geneva, mother of Sylvain (6 yo), Cyrielle (4 yo) and
Circé (18 mo)
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
have never experienced in adult life the cruelty and casual
callousness that were commonplace in school. I agree that we must
heal from that to be whole (whether we were on the giving or
receiving end of the callousness). It is a maladaptive look at life
as far as I can see, not a real-life training ground at all. And as
is abundantly said elsewhere, life's challenges and sadness will find
us all. We don't need an artificial 'callousness boot camp'! Also,
when one of my kids experiences a shy period, or a time without many
friends, or a period of latency in learning some topic, I've had
family members quick to blame it on staying at home. A gentle honest
reminder that I certainly experienced those things at times, and I
was conventionally schooled, can help put things in perspective.
Cameron
I realised while writing my post that it didn't really make sense,
but I don't like to stay with this ugly doubtful voice whispering
inside me ... As I have already told you, there are no homeschooling
people around me, not even talking about "unschooling" people. And my
family is not very supportive, to say the least.
I thought about all this today and I also realised that my doubts
fell into the idea of "letting them go to school so they will learn
what the real life is" which, we know, is not true :) But sometimes,
how would I say that ... I have the feeling that I ask so much more
for them than other people I know - I can't help thinking that I ask
too much and that there must be something wrong about it.
Again, thanks. Your insight is immensely valuable for me and I am
terribly frustrated to be so limited in my writing and in the
contribution I can make. I hope others will go on writing about this
subject ...
Helen, from Geneva, mother of Sylvain (6 yo), Cyrielle (4 yo) and
Circé (18 mo)
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>kids
> "and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinks
> that school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my
> NEED to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environmentto
> grow stronger ? "cruelly as is common in school from both students and teachers? I
> Where in adult life is it socially acceptable to treat a person as
have never experienced in adult life the cruelty and casual
callousness that were commonplace in school. I agree that we must
heal from that to be whole (whether we were on the giving or
receiving end of the callousness). It is a maladaptive look at life
as far as I can see, not a real-life training ground at all. And as
is abundantly said elsewhere, life's challenges and sadness will find
us all. We don't need an artificial 'callousness boot camp'! Also,
when one of my kids experiences a shy period, or a time without many
friends, or a period of latency in learning some topic, I've had
family members quick to blame it on staying at home. A gentle honest
reminder that I certainly experienced those things at times, and I
was conventionally schooled, can help put things in perspective.
Cameron
>from
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Meredith <meredith@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:58:47 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Over protecting ???
>
> --- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, "seccotine_ch"
> <seccotine@ ..> wrote:
> >> Anyway, after that discussion I was wondering if I was not too
> > perfectionist in keeping my children away from the school
> experience
> > and if I wasn't "over-protecting" them. I am the one who thinks
> that
> > school isn't a good environment for kids ... but maybe my kids
> NEED
> > to be away from me and to experiment not-so-good environment to
> grow
> > stronger ?
>
> There's plenty of hurt and sadness that goes on in normal life,
> without adding school junk on top of it. My "always unschooled" 5yo
> has been to a grandma's funeral, seen her life turn upside down
> adding a new (teen) family member, had people be rude to her bccertainly
> she's a child, had people be thoughtlessly cruel to her bc she's a
> child, had other children hurt her and her feelings. She's
> learned from those experiences and one of the things she's learnedand
> is that her parents are there to help, if she needs them. She's
> pretty good at deciding about that "if".
>
> My stepson has lived in a crummy environment, where shame, guilt
> outright violence were normal. He's been in school and seen the
> same. Its made him insecure, not strong. He struggles to believe
> he's anything other than "the big, dumb bad kid". Unschooling is
> helping him heal from that, but he's still pretty tentative and
> fragile in a lot of ways.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>