teens and drinking
[email protected]
All, may I ask you for your thoughts about teens and drinking? My gut
feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let's keep them as safe
as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learned wisdom,
you know?
So...I have a 17 year old - the one I want to unschool - who I am learning
to "unparent" (not my favorite term, but ya'l know what I mean, I hope). I have
lifted his curfew, we talked about responsibility to one's self and with
freedom, comes different types of responsibilities. I am alone in this, as I am
with much of my wild parenting style ;) So...support? Thoughts? Ideas?
Ruminations?
Thanks!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let's keep them as safe
as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learned wisdom,
you know?
So...I have a 17 year old - the one I want to unschool - who I am learning
to "unparent" (not my favorite term, but ya'l know what I mean, I hope). I have
lifted his curfew, we talked about responsibility to one's self and with
freedom, comes different types of responsibilities. I am alone in this, as I am
with much of my wild parenting style ;) So...support? Thoughts? Ideas?
Ruminations?
Thanks!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
I have mixed feelings about this one- The easy thing is to say obey
the law but then there are ways around that and he would have access
to it in hiding which leads to pretending and not being able to get
help in case he drank too much.
>gut
> All, may I ask you for your thoughts about teens and drinking? My
> feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let'skeep them as safe
> as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learnedwisdom,
I have mixed feelings about this one- The easy thing is to say obey
the law but then there are ways around that and he would have access
to it in hiding which leads to pretending and not being able to get
help in case he drank too much.
Schuyler
You and your son don't seem to yet have a very trusting relationship. From
what you've written previously he seems to think you are a bit mad and a bit
irresponsible. I don't know if his sense of you and, given what you've
written, his sense of himself is a sense that will produce a responsible
social drinker.
That said, I don't really believe that there is a lot you can do to control
someone's actions when you aren't around. It seems that if you can make sure
he knows you will come and get him if he is too drunk to cope, if you won't
judge him, if he won't be in trouble, it may go a long way to helping him to
see how much you are willing to support him.
Personally, my two children are being raised in a household with two parents
who drink a glass of something most evenings. David (dh) brews his own beer.
Simon (ds) has made his own apple cider, it didn't quite hit hard cider.
Both Simon and Linnaea have tried alcoholic drinks and, while Linnaea enjoys
the occasional sip of mead and Simon likes very slightly alcoholic cider,
they really don't like drinking. They are only 10 and 7, so there isn't the
hanging out with friends, having an illicit drink sort of appeal, but they
are growing up in a household where illicit drinking is unlikely to be that
appealling or really that illicit.
So, I guess I don't know. I suppose it might be a good step in your
relationship with your son, but it may just go further to confirm his
feelings that you are a loosey-goosey parent <grin>.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
what you've written previously he seems to think you are a bit mad and a bit
irresponsible. I don't know if his sense of you and, given what you've
written, his sense of himself is a sense that will produce a responsible
social drinker.
That said, I don't really believe that there is a lot you can do to control
someone's actions when you aren't around. It seems that if you can make sure
he knows you will come and get him if he is too drunk to cope, if you won't
judge him, if he won't be in trouble, it may go a long way to helping him to
see how much you are willing to support him.
Personally, my two children are being raised in a household with two parents
who drink a glass of something most evenings. David (dh) brews his own beer.
Simon (ds) has made his own apple cider, it didn't quite hit hard cider.
Both Simon and Linnaea have tried alcoholic drinks and, while Linnaea enjoys
the occasional sip of mead and Simon likes very slightly alcoholic cider,
they really don't like drinking. They are only 10 and 7, so there isn't the
hanging out with friends, having an illicit drink sort of appeal, but they
are growing up in a household where illicit drinking is unlikely to be that
appealling or really that illicit.
So, I guess I don't know. I suppose it might be a good step in your
relationship with your son, but it may just go further to confirm his
feelings that you are a loosey-goosey parent <grin>.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kidgie@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:47 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] teens and drinking
> All, may I ask you for your thoughts about teens and drinking? My gut
> feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let's keep
> them as safe
> as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learned wisdom,
> you know?
>
> So...I have a 17 year old - the one I want to unschool - who I am learning
> to "unparent" (not my favorite term, but ya'l know what I mean, I hope). I
> have
> lifted his curfew, we talked about responsibility to one's self and with
> freedom, comes different types of responsibilities. I am alone in this, as
> I am
> with much of my wild parenting style ;) So...support? Thoughts? Ideas?
> Ruminations?
>
> Thanks!
> Karen
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kidgie@...
All, may I ask you for your thoughts about teens and drinking? My gut
feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let's keep
them as
safe as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learned
wisdom,
you know?
So...I have a 17 year old - the one I want to unschool - who I am
learning
to "unparent" (not my favorite term, but ya'l know what I mean, I
hope). I have
lifted his curfew, we talked about responsibility to one's self and
with
freedom, comes different types of responsibilities. I am alone in this,
as I am
with much of my wild parenting style ;) So...support? Thoughts? Ideas?
Ruminations?
-=-=-=-=-=--
Teens WILL experiment---not nececssarily with drugs or drinking or sex,
but with *many* different life choices. That's what they do.
If it's forbidden, they will sneak it. If they're sneaking it, they're
NOT going to tell their parents when they are in trouble. If they trust
their parents completely, they WILL call when they are in difficult
situations.
It's *much* more important to me that Cameron be SAFE. Everything else
works around that premise. He *has* called us when he was high to
either ask for a ride home or to tell us he was staying the night. He
knows how much we value him and his safety. I don't want him arrested
or dead in an alley or by the side on the road. We've talked about not
buying pot from people he doesn't know, about keeping his paraphenalia
well-hidden, about being very careful where and with whom he smokes.
I never agreed to buy him stuff, but Cam and I talked about not buying
from strangers and buying organic whenever possible. I wouldn't hand
him a fifth of vodka and say, "Go for it"---but we do talk about high
end beers and wines and liquors vs. rot gut.
He got drunk with three friends on his 15th birthday. Dangerously
drunk. Ironically, it was a sobering experience---he now drinks very
little. A very occasional beer or glass of wine at home or other safe
environment.
He told me yesterday that he was uncomfortable being around a lot of
his friends now because they ALL want to be drunk or high all the time.
He knows he doesn't need that, and he doesn't like to hang around with
them now because of that. (All these guys are/were schooled with
parents who don't understand them.) He's struggling with this right now
and trying to find some folks he's more comfortable with.
The question to you becomes: What will you do/say when you find him
with alcohol?
Your answers will tell a lot about how you feel about it. If you can
verbalize to HIM---AND follow through *to the letter*---what you will
do/say the *first* time, he *may* start to believe you.
But poking around his things to see whether he *was* drinking the night
before will not win you trust points. Neither will asking whether he
was drinking or how drunk he got. But BEing there for him time and time
again WILL show him you trust him.
I dropped Cameron off one time at a concert and said, "If you're going
to get high, please be smart and careful---and call me if you need me."
He laughed and said that all the other parents were probably saying,
"Don't get high!!!" <g> He appreciated that I was realistic. He KNEW he
could count on me.
Ironically, he's never (knock on wood) had any incidents with the law
or been in any dangerous situations (well, except for that drunk night
on his birthday). Every one of his friends and cousins has been
arrested or in a dangerous spot. Buying pot from an undercover cop,
DUI, drug paraphenalia found in their cars or dorm rooms, rehab, beaten
up by a dealer---all SORTS of stuff! ANd these are all *GOOD* kids.
They're just doing stupid stuff---and aren't in a position to tell
their parents/ask for help.
Cameron's safety is THE most important thing to me---and he knows it.
I'm sure it was hard for him to call us the first time; but when we did
what we said we would do---with no shaming or anger, just relief that
he'd called us, he knew he could trust us. We *NEVER* let him
down---not once!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: Kidgie@...
All, may I ask you for your thoughts about teens and drinking? My gut
feeling is, they will, they do, I did, lol, and if they do, let's keep
them as
safe as possible...but again, that implies restrictions vs self learned
wisdom,
you know?
So...I have a 17 year old - the one I want to unschool - who I am
learning
to "unparent" (not my favorite term, but ya'l know what I mean, I
hope). I have
lifted his curfew, we talked about responsibility to one's self and
with
freedom, comes different types of responsibilities. I am alone in this,
as I am
with much of my wild parenting style ;) So...support? Thoughts? Ideas?
Ruminations?
-=-=-=-=-=--
Teens WILL experiment---not nececssarily with drugs or drinking or sex,
but with *many* different life choices. That's what they do.
If it's forbidden, they will sneak it. If they're sneaking it, they're
NOT going to tell their parents when they are in trouble. If they trust
their parents completely, they WILL call when they are in difficult
situations.
It's *much* more important to me that Cameron be SAFE. Everything else
works around that premise. He *has* called us when he was high to
either ask for a ride home or to tell us he was staying the night. He
knows how much we value him and his safety. I don't want him arrested
or dead in an alley or by the side on the road. We've talked about not
buying pot from people he doesn't know, about keeping his paraphenalia
well-hidden, about being very careful where and with whom he smokes.
I never agreed to buy him stuff, but Cam and I talked about not buying
from strangers and buying organic whenever possible. I wouldn't hand
him a fifth of vodka and say, "Go for it"---but we do talk about high
end beers and wines and liquors vs. rot gut.
He got drunk with three friends on his 15th birthday. Dangerously
drunk. Ironically, it was a sobering experience---he now drinks very
little. A very occasional beer or glass of wine at home or other safe
environment.
He told me yesterday that he was uncomfortable being around a lot of
his friends now because they ALL want to be drunk or high all the time.
He knows he doesn't need that, and he doesn't like to hang around with
them now because of that. (All these guys are/were schooled with
parents who don't understand them.) He's struggling with this right now
and trying to find some folks he's more comfortable with.
The question to you becomes: What will you do/say when you find him
with alcohol?
Your answers will tell a lot about how you feel about it. If you can
verbalize to HIM---AND follow through *to the letter*---what you will
do/say the *first* time, he *may* start to believe you.
But poking around his things to see whether he *was* drinking the night
before will not win you trust points. Neither will asking whether he
was drinking or how drunk he got. But BEing there for him time and time
again WILL show him you trust him.
I dropped Cameron off one time at a concert and said, "If you're going
to get high, please be smart and careful---and call me if you need me."
He laughed and said that all the other parents were probably saying,
"Don't get high!!!" <g> He appreciated that I was realistic. He KNEW he
could count on me.
Ironically, he's never (knock on wood) had any incidents with the law
or been in any dangerous situations (well, except for that drunk night
on his birthday). Every one of his friends and cousins has been
arrested or in a dangerous spot. Buying pot from an undercover cop,
DUI, drug paraphenalia found in their cars or dorm rooms, rehab, beaten
up by a dealer---all SORTS of stuff! ANd these are all *GOOD* kids.
They're just doing stupid stuff---and aren't in a position to tell
their parents/ask for help.
Cameron's safety is THE most important thing to me---and he knows it.
I'm sure it was hard for him to call us the first time; but when we did
what we said we would do---with no shaming or anger, just relief that
he'd called us, he knew he could trust us. We *NEVER* let him
down---not once!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Julie" <wisdom1133@...>
wrote:
own children in some places (not all, check local laws, please!)
although not others' children.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>The easy thing is to say obeyNot so easy. Its within the law for parents to offer alcohol to their
> the law
own children in some places (not all, check local laws, please!)
although not others' children.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
infreondscipe
To me this is part of the whole issue we have here in America (maybe
other places too I don't know!) with infantilizing our young adults.
It irks me to no end! Times past 17 was manhood, now it's still
kidhood...Only problem is biology doesn't fluccuate with out cultural
whims so we get dissention in our families...grrr...And I'm sorry that
wasn't your question & I don't mean to sound like a Pink Floyd song so
end rant :)
I personally do not get the hangup with drinking at all. Getting drunk
is a whole 'nother issue, just a totally bad idea for anyone imho. If
it were my 17yo I'd say consider the law & be prepared to take whatever
the underage drinking consequences are like a man. If you wanna make
that choice enjoy a couple of drinks, have fun and keep your wits about
you so somebody doesn't come to harm or worse. Just like a grown up...
How bizarre is it anyway?? Is there some magical biological twist of
the screw when they turn 18 (in near-beer states) or 21? Okay NOW you
can drink and it's OKAY! Yesterday NO but today YES!! No wonder kids
think that's dumb, it IS dumb!
Just my .02, you're mom so you'll know what's best to do!
Love & Light,
Chris
other places too I don't know!) with infantilizing our young adults.
It irks me to no end! Times past 17 was manhood, now it's still
kidhood...Only problem is biology doesn't fluccuate with out cultural
whims so we get dissention in our families...grrr...And I'm sorry that
wasn't your question & I don't mean to sound like a Pink Floyd song so
end rant :)
I personally do not get the hangup with drinking at all. Getting drunk
is a whole 'nother issue, just a totally bad idea for anyone imho. If
it were my 17yo I'd say consider the law & be prepared to take whatever
the underage drinking consequences are like a man. If you wanna make
that choice enjoy a couple of drinks, have fun and keep your wits about
you so somebody doesn't come to harm or worse. Just like a grown up...
How bizarre is it anyway?? Is there some magical biological twist of
the screw when they turn 18 (in near-beer states) or 21? Okay NOW you
can drink and it's OKAY! Yesterday NO but today YES!! No wonder kids
think that's dumb, it IS dumb!
Just my .02, you're mom so you'll know what's best to do!
Love & Light,
Chris
asmb65
>drunk
> I personally do not get the hangup with drinking at all. Getting
> is a whole 'nother issue, just a totally bad idea for anyone imho.I agree whole heartedly with Chris. If parents make a big deal out of
it, it is a big deal. If kids learn how to drink responsibly in their
own homes, it is much healthier. If their parents drink and the kids
see them drinking responsibly, then the kids get the idea from a young
age. Even more so if everytime they go out as a family the parents
choose a designated driver between them if they are going to go beyond
their safe limit (for me it would be one drink to feel impaired these
days!).
Different scenario of course for non-drinking parents but it can still
be modelled by family friends and relatives (hopefully healthily!)
Susan
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/23/2007 10:11:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
infreondscipe@... writes:
Just my .02, you're mom so you'll know what's best to do!
Love & Light,
Chris
Some very earthy, holistic advice, I might add. :)
I love the other advice too. Just thinking and contemplating right now..will
respond soon!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
infreondscipe@... writes:
Just my .02, you're mom so you'll know what's best to do!
Love & Light,
Chris
Some very earthy, holistic advice, I might add. :)
I love the other advice too. Just thinking and contemplating right now..will
respond soon!
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: infreondscipe <infreondscipe@...>
To me this is part of the whole issue we have here in America (maybe
other places too I don't know!) with infantilizing our young adults.
It irks me to no end! Times past 17 was manhood, now it's still
kidhood...Only problem is biology doesn't fluccuate with out cultural
whims so we get dissention in our families...grrr...And I'm sorry that
wasn't your question & I don't mean to sound like a Pink Floyd song so
end rant :)
-=-=-=-
I totally agree and get on that soap box often!
They can get a license to drive a 1,000 lb vehicle. They can get
married and hold jobs. They can buy houses and pay mortgages. They can
go to war and die for their country.
But they can't buy a BEER??? It's so ridiculous that it boggles the
mind.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: infreondscipe <infreondscipe@...>
To me this is part of the whole issue we have here in America (maybe
other places too I don't know!) with infantilizing our young adults.
It irks me to no end! Times past 17 was manhood, now it's still
kidhood...Only problem is biology doesn't fluccuate with out cultural
whims so we get dissention in our families...grrr...And I'm sorry that
wasn't your question & I don't mean to sound like a Pink Floyd song so
end rant :)
-=-=-=-
I totally agree and get on that soap box often!
They can get a license to drive a 1,000 lb vehicle. They can get
married and hold jobs. They can buy houses and pay mortgages. They can
go to war and die for their country.
But they can't buy a BEER??? It's so ridiculous that it boggles the
mind.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "infreondscipe"
<infreondscipe@...> wrote:
of alcohol, for some people drinking is "about" getting drunk. My
stepson's mom hangs out with the sorts of people for whom that's the
purpose of drinking, so that's the behavior he's seen modelled.
That's our main concern, and one we don't have about Mo - she's
being raised in an environment where she can see people drink
casually and responsibly.
So we're taking things slowly with Ray, trying to "say yes more" and
model healthier behavior, while being concious of the fact that we
are imposing limits on him. We're letting him taste beer and wine
and even hard liquor, but just taste. At some point we'll start
letting him have a small glass of his own...but both George and I
are still sensitive to the fact that its us "letting" and wondering
how to move on from that. I have a definate sense that time and
increased overall trust and communication is a big part of this
process, but I really can't articulate it past that.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<infreondscipe@...> wrote:
>> I personally do not get the hangup with drinking at all. Gettingdrunk
> is a whole 'nother issue, just a totally bad idea for anyone imho.Unfortunately, because of the weird societal issues around the use
of alcohol, for some people drinking is "about" getting drunk. My
stepson's mom hangs out with the sorts of people for whom that's the
purpose of drinking, so that's the behavior he's seen modelled.
That's our main concern, and one we don't have about Mo - she's
being raised in an environment where she can see people drink
casually and responsibly.
So we're taking things slowly with Ray, trying to "say yes more" and
model healthier behavior, while being concious of the fact that we
are imposing limits on him. We're letting him taste beer and wine
and even hard liquor, but just taste. At some point we'll start
letting him have a small glass of his own...but both George and I
are still sensitive to the fact that its us "letting" and wondering
how to move on from that. I have a definate sense that time and
increased overall trust and communication is a big part of this
process, but I really can't articulate it past that.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
elodyb
...but both George and I
Your life/livelyhood is on the line!! You are the one who could get
thrown in jail, pay a fine, lose a job, or have to deal with CPS.
Personally, I don't beleive in this law, I believe the forbidden
fruit theory... The law makes it something kids WANT to do just because
they are told they can't. I also, don't believe drinking is the
problem, getting drunk or drinking and driving is the problem. Why
don't we make the laws to handle the true problem instead of punishing
everyone??
I wish they would revamp the laws to punish the true crime and the
true criminals. Sigh, But I can't even change the thinking in my own
household. I don't know what we are going to do when my DD gets older
and we have to cross that bridge. (maybe in a decade society will have
come around?!?)
Elody
> are still sensitive to the fact that its us "letting" and wonderingUnfortunately, because of the law, you have to choose to 'let' him.
> how to move on from that.
Your life/livelyhood is on the line!! You are the one who could get
thrown in jail, pay a fine, lose a job, or have to deal with CPS.
Personally, I don't beleive in this law, I believe the forbidden
fruit theory... The law makes it something kids WANT to do just because
they are told they can't. I also, don't believe drinking is the
problem, getting drunk or drinking and driving is the problem. Why
don't we make the laws to handle the true problem instead of punishing
everyone??
I wish they would revamp the laws to punish the true crime and the
true criminals. Sigh, But I can't even change the thinking in my own
household. I don't know what we are going to do when my DD gets older
and we have to cross that bridge. (maybe in a decade society will have
come around?!?)
Elody
Julie
--- In [email protected], "elodyb" <kg7241@...>
wrote:
laws or instance here is Utah I minor is allowed to be given alcohol
under religious,educational and medical reasons while in california
a parent can give their child it in the private residence. Let me
try to find the link and I will post it.
wrote:
>wondering
> ...but both George and I
> > are still sensitive to the fact that its us "letting" and
> > how to move on from that.him.
>
> Unfortunately, because of the law, you have to choose to 'let'
> Your life/livelyhood is on the line!! You are the one who couldget
> thrown in jail, pay a fine, lose a job, or have to deal with CPS.forbidden
> Personally, I don't beleive in this law, I believe the
> fruit theory... The law makes it something kids WANT to do justbecause
> they are told they can't. I also, don't believe drinking is thepunishing
> problem, getting drunk or drinking and driving is the problem. Why
> don't we make the laws to handle the true problem instead of
> everyone??the
> I wish they would revamp the laws to punish the true crime and
> true criminals. Sigh, But I can't even change the thinking in myown
> household. I don't know what we are going to do when my DD getsolder
> and we have to cross that bridge. (maybe in a decade society willhave
> come around?!?)It is true that different states have different underage drinking
>
> Elody
laws or instance here is Utah I minor is allowed to be given alcohol
under religious,educational and medical reasons while in california
a parent can give their child it in the private residence. Let me
try to find the link and I will post it.
>