Re: [unschoolingbasics] Rules in the name of safety...some ramblings
Fetteroll
On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:31 AM, Kendrah Nilsestuen wrote:
It's because some people are raised deprived and feel because they
have the power to take, they should take what they can.
necessarily mean stepping on the fewest toes. Different people will
judge how many toes it's acceptable to step on when meeting needs.
hanging out.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Why do weIt's because we don't all agree on what's right.
> have rules to begin with. Is it because from birth we're made aware
> that as humans we must not be trustworthy therefore rules need to be
> set to keep us in line?
It's because some people are raised deprived and feel because they
have the power to take, they should take what they can.
> What would happen if from birth everyoneI think people do have the best intentions, but their "best" doesn't
> around us assumed that all our actions were with the best of
> intentions?
necessarily mean stepping on the fewest toes. Different people will
judge how many toes it's acceptable to step on when meeting needs.
> I heard that aIn a couple of malls around Boston it was done to keep the gangs from
> neighboring county was hoping to make it illegal for teens to be at
> the mall past 2pm on Fridays & Saturdays w/out a parent. Apparently
> in the name of keeping the teens safe.
hanging out.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-79@...>
Why do we have rules to begin with. Is it because from birth we're
made aware
that as humans we must not be trustworthy therefore rules need to be
set to keep us in line?
-=-=-
That's what John Holt said!
-=-=-=-=-=-
What would happen if from birth everyone
around us assumed that all our actions were with the best of
intentions?
-=-=-=-=-
We'd be living in an unschooling/mindfully parented home? <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-
Would rules need to be set then or would courtesy and
respect for other people and property just happen naturally?
-=-=-=-
It's incredibly natural!
-=-=-=-
On the radio not long ago I heard that a
neighboring county was hoping to make it illegal for teens to be at
the mall past 2pm on Fridays & Saturdays w/out a parent. Apparently
in the name of keeping the teens safe. In the process though are we
taking away their rights as a human being? Who should be deciding
those rights are taken away?
-=-=-=-=-
Children, and especially teens, are the only group of humans in the US
who still have NO rights and who have more rights taken away every
year.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-79@...>
Why do we have rules to begin with. Is it because from birth we're
made aware
that as humans we must not be trustworthy therefore rules need to be
set to keep us in line?
-=-=-
That's what John Holt said!
-=-=-=-=-=-
What would happen if from birth everyone
around us assumed that all our actions were with the best of
intentions?
-=-=-=-=-
We'd be living in an unschooling/mindfully parented home? <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-
Would rules need to be set then or would courtesy and
respect for other people and property just happen naturally?
-=-=-=-
It's incredibly natural!
-=-=-=-
On the radio not long ago I heard that a
neighboring county was hoping to make it illegal for teens to be at
the mall past 2pm on Fridays & Saturdays w/out a parent. Apparently
in the name of keeping the teens safe. In the process though are we
taking away their rights as a human being? Who should be deciding
those rights are taken away?
-=-=-=-=-
Children, and especially teens, are the only group of humans in the US
who still have NO rights and who have more rights taken away every
year.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Ren Allen
~~Dh decided that if the red light
could be ran for a cup of coffee that certainly a crying baby would
justify running it, so he did. I likely would not have. I should say
though that he doesn't make a habit of running red lights, in fact
this is the only example I can even think of. ~~
I have a story about that kind of situation.....
A friend and I were driving into Portland (Oregon, we lived across the
bridge in Vancouver WA) to meet some guy friends for a late dinner at
a chinese restaurant (many, many years ago). Anyway, there was hardly
any traffic out due to the late hour and when we got close to our
destination, a red light stopped us at an intersection. A local bum
was on the street corner and started approaching the car. He looked
pretty questionable and he's yelling, so I look around (NO traffic,
you can see in every direction clearly) and say "GO Kate!!"
She was frozen. The rules had been so clearly pounded into her
private-schooled brain, that running a red light even to stay SAFE was
unthinkable. "I can't, I might get a ticket" she answers.
By now the guy is up to the car and pounding on our window!! I'm
yelling at her to go, she's responding that she can't because the
light is red.
So yeah, running red lights and talking loud at libraries and ignoring
boundaries aren't something I advocate doing randomly without thought.
But there are times I would do all of the above, without hesitation.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
could be ran for a cup of coffee that certainly a crying baby would
justify running it, so he did. I likely would not have. I should say
though that he doesn't make a habit of running red lights, in fact
this is the only example I can even think of. ~~
I have a story about that kind of situation.....
A friend and I were driving into Portland (Oregon, we lived across the
bridge in Vancouver WA) to meet some guy friends for a late dinner at
a chinese restaurant (many, many years ago). Anyway, there was hardly
any traffic out due to the late hour and when we got close to our
destination, a red light stopped us at an intersection. A local bum
was on the street corner and started approaching the car. He looked
pretty questionable and he's yelling, so I look around (NO traffic,
you can see in every direction clearly) and say "GO Kate!!"
She was frozen. The rules had been so clearly pounded into her
private-schooled brain, that running a red light even to stay SAFE was
unthinkable. "I can't, I might get a ticket" she answers.
By now the guy is up to the car and pounding on our window!! I'm
yelling at her to go, she's responding that she can't because the
light is red.
So yeah, running red lights and talking loud at libraries and ignoring
boundaries aren't something I advocate doing randomly without thought.
But there are times I would do all of the above, without hesitation.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~Children, and especially teens, are the only group of humans in the US
who still have NO rights and who have more rights taken away every
year.~~
Definitely!
I was just reading about that Virginia school that has forbidden ANY
student contact. Not only no hugging or kissing, but no high-fives or
handshakes or ANY kind of human contact.
Great. They just made prison less tolerable. They just took away a
basic human right that no other human should have control over. It's
insanity.
And we wonder why these kids can't think clearly when they leave that
insane institution (ok, we don't...but society in general seems to
wonder).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
who still have NO rights and who have more rights taken away every
year.~~
Definitely!
I was just reading about that Virginia school that has forbidden ANY
student contact. Not only no hugging or kissing, but no high-fives or
handshakes or ANY kind of human contact.
Great. They just made prison less tolerable. They just took away a
basic human right that no other human should have control over. It's
insanity.
And we wonder why these kids can't think clearly when they leave that
insane institution (ok, we don't...but society in general seems to
wonder).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Melissa
Speaking of rules.
We took my dad out to eat dinner for father's day (okay, my dad is a whole 'nother post, so
I won't even touch that). The place we went is a classic hot dog stand, drive in from
"before Sonic" type of place. The kids all working there were obviously
alternative...multiple facial piercings, tattoos, various hair and clothing accessories. No
biggie. What was cool was that during the breaks, they were outside skating against a
really cool wall and some boards that the management lets them keep back there.
The girls are way into skating. They watched and watched, and had a good time. When we
left, we had to drive around the one way road, and it was very obvious that they were
tensing up, their entire demeanor changed with the approach of our vehicle, like they
KNEW someone was going to hassle them (esp under the big 'NO SKATING' sign...the
business next door put it on their building, even though they stay in the restaurants
parking lot). DH slowed down to let them finish their tricks, the girls rolled down the
windows and gave cheers, and they all relaxed and smiled. They did some really cool stuff
for the girls to see. It just makes me sad that other people can't see what wonderful kids
are all around us, they see a bunch of punks that have to be retrained, they bemoan what
our world is coming to, but we're surrounded by great kids.
Anyway, more ramblings and a recent example of no rights. The rule of no skating is really
unfair, granted, it does tear up the concrete after a while, but where else can they go? The
sign was preposterous considering the owners of the restaurant are glad to have happy
workers.
Melissa
We took my dad out to eat dinner for father's day (okay, my dad is a whole 'nother post, so
I won't even touch that). The place we went is a classic hot dog stand, drive in from
"before Sonic" type of place. The kids all working there were obviously
alternative...multiple facial piercings, tattoos, various hair and clothing accessories. No
biggie. What was cool was that during the breaks, they were outside skating against a
really cool wall and some boards that the management lets them keep back there.
The girls are way into skating. They watched and watched, and had a good time. When we
left, we had to drive around the one way road, and it was very obvious that they were
tensing up, their entire demeanor changed with the approach of our vehicle, like they
KNEW someone was going to hassle them (esp under the big 'NO SKATING' sign...the
business next door put it on their building, even though they stay in the restaurants
parking lot). DH slowed down to let them finish their tricks, the girls rolled down the
windows and gave cheers, and they all relaxed and smiled. They did some really cool stuff
for the girls to see. It just makes me sad that other people can't see what wonderful kids
are all around us, they see a bunch of punks that have to be retrained, they bemoan what
our world is coming to, but we're surrounded by great kids.
Anyway, more ramblings and a recent example of no rights. The rule of no skating is really
unfair, granted, it does tear up the concrete after a while, but where else can they go? The
sign was preposterous considering the owners of the restaurant are glad to have happy
workers.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> Children, and especially teens, are the only group of humans in the US
> who still have NO rights and who have more rights taken away every
> year.
>
Robert Saxon
Just to state the obvious, I suppose...
I view rules as double-edged. There are lots situations where they are
useful, good, and sometime REALLY needed.
I also believe they are over-used in so many areas as to stifle creativity
and identity.
It's gonna take some of that lateral thinking and those different
perspectives to get us as a city/state/country/world out of some of the
messes we've gotten ourselves into.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a group of skaters that "saved the world"
somehow... :-)
(Saved from what? At the very least, our own mediocrity.)
--Rob
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.5) and Elissa (4.25)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I view rules as double-edged. There are lots situations where they are
useful, good, and sometime REALLY needed.
I also believe they are over-used in so many areas as to stifle creativity
and identity.
It's gonna take some of that lateral thinking and those different
perspectives to get us as a city/state/country/world out of some of the
messes we've gotten ourselves into.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a group of skaters that "saved the world"
somehow... :-)
(Saved from what? At the very least, our own mediocrity.)
--Rob
DH to Seana for 10 years
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.5) and Elissa (4.25)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
-Recently I took my 16 yr old along on a "mom's night out" for dinner
and a movie. We saw the later movie and imagine my surprise when I
sent my 16 yr old to the window to get our tickets and she was asked
to show ID and then to produce a parent!!!! Sure enough in the lobby
of the theater there was a HUGE sign stating that children 16 and
under could not attend a movie after 9:30pm without a parent!!! I
asked the usher if they had been having problems and he said no that
it was a county ordinance! Boy that one slipped by me!
My kids prefer to see the later shows because they are less crowded
especially on "school" nights. We hadn't ever noticed the sign
evidently because I was told this was not new and we often go to late
movies together. How can we expect kids to navigate the world if we
are going to make rules against it?
Lisa B
and a movie. We saw the later movie and imagine my surprise when I
sent my 16 yr old to the window to get our tickets and she was asked
to show ID and then to produce a parent!!!! Sure enough in the lobby
of the theater there was a HUGE sign stating that children 16 and
under could not attend a movie after 9:30pm without a parent!!! I
asked the usher if they had been having problems and he said no that
it was a county ordinance! Boy that one slipped by me!
My kids prefer to see the later shows because they are less crowded
especially on "school" nights. We hadn't ever noticed the sign
evidently because I was told this was not new and we often go to late
movies together. How can we expect kids to navigate the world if we
are going to make rules against it?
Lisa B
> Why do we have rules to begin with. Is it because from birth we're
> made aware
> that as humans we must not be trustworthy therefore rules need to be
> set to keep us in line?
>
>
Ren Allen
~~Did I just lose what could of been a precious memory
because I was afraid of what other's thought? When I'm old and dying
will I regret that I didn't seize the day? If it had been my last day
on earth would I of cared what other people or the city workers
thought? No, probably not.~~
Great stuff to roll around and ponder.
I was actually thinking about posting something along these lines, but
you beat me to it!:) I have a friend whose child may be facing a
serious illness. Hannah died last year. Sam died a few years ago. I
don't have my Mom to share moments with my children any longer....I've
had enough death experiences to really think about whether something
is worth doing or not doing in the light of death.
There are ways I want to live, that has to do with fearlessness. I do
things when they are "right" in my mind, when they make sense and have
a big enough reason to make it worth conforming. It doesn't mean I am
fearless, but I try to live fearlessly. Does that make sense?
When I was thinking about your dh and the kids at the playground, I
was thinking "what if her child died next week? Would it be more
important that she followed the rules, or would breaking the rules
seem the better choice?" I vote for collecting a fabulous memory.
I'm basing this on the entire situation. There was a concerned parent
helping, nobody was turning kids loose. The park was finished, just
not open yet....I'm assuming no rusty nails everywhere or broken glass
(though even that could be navigated safely for a curious child).
At the same time, I think uncomfortable feelings give us a chance to
reflect, to grow and to learn. There are times that the uncomfortable
feeling exists to warn us, and we need to trust that. But when we can
logically examine where the feeling comes from and whether it's
warranted (or instinct, vs. societal training) there is a chance to
expand our comfort zone.
I think it's really cool that you're pondering all of this Kendrah. I
used to get really uncomfortable worrying about what other's thought
about me or my children's behavior. It's very freeing to get past all
of that and act based on a center of joy and trust.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
because I was afraid of what other's thought? When I'm old and dying
will I regret that I didn't seize the day? If it had been my last day
on earth would I of cared what other people or the city workers
thought? No, probably not.~~
Great stuff to roll around and ponder.
I was actually thinking about posting something along these lines, but
you beat me to it!:) I have a friend whose child may be facing a
serious illness. Hannah died last year. Sam died a few years ago. I
don't have my Mom to share moments with my children any longer....I've
had enough death experiences to really think about whether something
is worth doing or not doing in the light of death.
There are ways I want to live, that has to do with fearlessness. I do
things when they are "right" in my mind, when they make sense and have
a big enough reason to make it worth conforming. It doesn't mean I am
fearless, but I try to live fearlessly. Does that make sense?
When I was thinking about your dh and the kids at the playground, I
was thinking "what if her child died next week? Would it be more
important that she followed the rules, or would breaking the rules
seem the better choice?" I vote for collecting a fabulous memory.
I'm basing this on the entire situation. There was a concerned parent
helping, nobody was turning kids loose. The park was finished, just
not open yet....I'm assuming no rusty nails everywhere or broken glass
(though even that could be navigated safely for a curious child).
At the same time, I think uncomfortable feelings give us a chance to
reflect, to grow and to learn. There are times that the uncomfortable
feeling exists to warn us, and we need to trust that. But when we can
logically examine where the feeling comes from and whether it's
warranted (or instinct, vs. societal training) there is a chance to
expand our comfort zone.
I think it's really cool that you're pondering all of this Kendrah. I
used to get really uncomfortable worrying about what other's thought
about me or my children's behavior. It's very freeing to get past all
of that and act based on a center of joy and trust.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Susan
-=- When I was thinking about your dh and the kids at the playground,
I was thinking "what if her child died next week? Would it be more
important that she followed the rules, or would breaking the rules
seem the better choice?" I vote for collecting a fabulous memory. -=-
Very similar thoughts have run through my head lately. I've asked
myself, 'What if my child died tomorrow?" What would really matter to
me? What would I regret? What can I change to replace that regret with
something sweet? What can I do *today* to make it a life worth living?
We always think we have more time, but that's not guaranteed. I don't
want to live in fear of regret. My goal is to get to a place in my
head and heart where I can truly make the most out of what I have
right now. It's not been easy for me to do that, I sometimes get stuck
in ruts and unhelpful ways of thinking, but I've noticed this question
has helped me move past some of my hangups and relax and find more joy
in little things, to be in the moment and really enjoy it.
I'm a total work in progress, but when I think about what matters most
in a situation like that suddenly my priorities seem so clear.
Thinking about the way I would want to look back on their lives, our
life together, makes it easier for me to see how I want to live with
them today, while they are here with me now.
Which is why I think RU is so truly worth understanding. If you asked
any conventionally minded parent what they would do if their child had
6 months to live I think their mindset would do a flipflop. I'm
betting they aren't going to care if their kid leaves shoes in the
hallway, if they don't like multiplication, if they used 40 sheets of
paper when 10 would have done, or if they wanted to dye their hair.
I'm betting they would try to soak up every second, to give them as
many of the experiences they desire as possible, to make each day
magical and connected, to love and enjoy their child as fully as they
can. From my vantage point, families committed to RU have made a
conscious decision to live their lives everyday like this.
-- Susan
I was thinking "what if her child died next week? Would it be more
important that she followed the rules, or would breaking the rules
seem the better choice?" I vote for collecting a fabulous memory. -=-
Very similar thoughts have run through my head lately. I've asked
myself, 'What if my child died tomorrow?" What would really matter to
me? What would I regret? What can I change to replace that regret with
something sweet? What can I do *today* to make it a life worth living?
We always think we have more time, but that's not guaranteed. I don't
want to live in fear of regret. My goal is to get to a place in my
head and heart where I can truly make the most out of what I have
right now. It's not been easy for me to do that, I sometimes get stuck
in ruts and unhelpful ways of thinking, but I've noticed this question
has helped me move past some of my hangups and relax and find more joy
in little things, to be in the moment and really enjoy it.
I'm a total work in progress, but when I think about what matters most
in a situation like that suddenly my priorities seem so clear.
Thinking about the way I would want to look back on their lives, our
life together, makes it easier for me to see how I want to live with
them today, while they are here with me now.
Which is why I think RU is so truly worth understanding. If you asked
any conventionally minded parent what they would do if their child had
6 months to live I think their mindset would do a flipflop. I'm
betting they aren't going to care if their kid leaves shoes in the
hallway, if they don't like multiplication, if they used 40 sheets of
paper when 10 would have done, or if they wanted to dye their hair.
I'm betting they would try to soak up every second, to give them as
many of the experiences they desire as possible, to make each day
magical and connected, to love and enjoy their child as fully as they
can. From my vantage point, families committed to RU have made a
conscious decision to live their lives everyday like this.
-- Susan
infreondscipe
"Did I just lose what could of been a precious memory because I was
afraid of what other's thought? When I'm old and dying will I regret
that I didn't seize the day?"
This really struck me. When I was first diagnosed with cancer the
prognosis was not so good. On that day and during many of the long
nights after I relived every single mothering moment I had wasted and
even the ones I didn't waste but only gave 1/2 of my attention to. I
will say that regret is a word I had no concept of until that time.
Just something to ponder,
Chris
p.s. Treatment went famously, I'm still here and plan to remain :)
South/Southwest Idaho Unschoolers Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soidunschool/
Idaho Unschoolers Website
www.idunschool.org
afraid of what other's thought? When I'm old and dying will I regret
that I didn't seize the day?"
This really struck me. When I was first diagnosed with cancer the
prognosis was not so good. On that day and during many of the long
nights after I relived every single mothering moment I had wasted and
even the ones I didn't waste but only gave 1/2 of my attention to. I
will say that regret is a word I had no concept of until that time.
Just something to ponder,
Chris
p.s. Treatment went famously, I'm still here and plan to remain :)
South/Southwest Idaho Unschoolers Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soidunschool/
Idaho Unschoolers Website
www.idunschool.org
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Lisa" <jlblock01@...> wrote:
allowed to buy spray-paint, with a pic of him doing something he
wasn't allowed to do at his mom's house (paint his clothes).
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
>How can we expect kids to navigate the world if weAlong these lines, here's an entry from my blog about Ray not being
> are going to make rules against it?
allowed to buy spray-paint, with a pic of him doing something he
wasn't allowed to do at his mom's house (paint his clothes).
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
http://rayanschool.blogspot.com/2007/04/artist-at-work.html
---Mer
wrote:
> Along these lines, here's an entry from my blogThat would work better with an actual link:
http://rayanschool.blogspot.com/2007/04/artist-at-work.html
---Mer
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/19/2007 5:53:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jlblock01@... writes:
all people are good at navigating themselves through other people's space, and
so I'm ok with rules to some extent. I do idealize anarchy at times, I really
do, but I also see the rules as guides, and it's also my responsibility to
think critically about them and help my children to do the same. And then, if
need be, work for change!
These discussions have kept me awake at night - in a good way. I'm learning
so much.
K.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jlblock01@... writes:
> Why do we have rules to begin with. Is it because from birth we'reI see them as guides for large numbers of humans living in societies. Not
> made aware
> that as humans we must not be trustworthy therefore rules need to be
> set to keep us in line?
>
>
all people are good at navigating themselves through other people's space, and
so I'm ok with rules to some extent. I do idealize anarchy at times, I really
do, but I also see the rules as guides, and it's also my responsibility to
think critically about them and help my children to do the same. And then, if
need be, work for change!
These discussions have kept me awake at night - in a good way. I'm learning
so much.
K.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Saxon
My own ruminations on rules.
I'm thinking that some of what we label as "rules" are, in fact, agreements
so that large numbers of people can get along (credit to K for this). One
example is traffic lights/signs and other "rules of the road."
Some rules are meant to instill a sense of "fairness" into games, like tag,
soccer, stock trading, and the like. Some of these rules are there to
ensure that everyone has an equal shot at "winning," whatever that means in
context of the game. These can also be viewed as agreements, since we won't
play unless we all agree to the same rules.
Some rules exist to either 'include' a specific group of people (members of
a group), while others 'exclude' a class of people (skateboarding, e.g.).
This is a tricky area. Sometimes these can be used to gather together
like-minded people for discussion and support. Sometimes it can be used to
make people feel less than the 'in' group.
And there really appear to me to be a lot of rules that are there simply
because someone believes that "there should be rules." No other reason than
that. Rules are so instilled in some people that we should make 'em up any
chance we get. It's just the right thing to do.
Some do it out of a sense of power.
I'm sure there are others.
My own growing philosophy towards whether or not to do something is the "Why
not?" approach (still tough for me, a recovering 'color within the lines'
artist). "Daddy, can we go do X?" "Hmmm...why not?"
Less rules for us means less rules to keep track of, and less stress
hassling my kids to do something they don't want to do (or not do something
they want to do). They have greater freedom and less "no's" in their lives.
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years!
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.5) and Elissa (4.25)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm thinking that some of what we label as "rules" are, in fact, agreements
so that large numbers of people can get along (credit to K for this). One
example is traffic lights/signs and other "rules of the road."
Some rules are meant to instill a sense of "fairness" into games, like tag,
soccer, stock trading, and the like. Some of these rules are there to
ensure that everyone has an equal shot at "winning," whatever that means in
context of the game. These can also be viewed as agreements, since we won't
play unless we all agree to the same rules.
Some rules exist to either 'include' a specific group of people (members of
a group), while others 'exclude' a class of people (skateboarding, e.g.).
This is a tricky area. Sometimes these can be used to gather together
like-minded people for discussion and support. Sometimes it can be used to
make people feel less than the 'in' group.
And there really appear to me to be a lot of rules that are there simply
because someone believes that "there should be rules." No other reason than
that. Rules are so instilled in some people that we should make 'em up any
chance we get. It's just the right thing to do.
Some do it out of a sense of power.
I'm sure there are others.
My own growing philosophy towards whether or not to do something is the "Why
not?" approach (still tough for me, a recovering 'color within the lines'
artist). "Daddy, can we go do X?" "Hmmm...why not?"
Less rules for us means less rules to keep track of, and less stress
hassling my kids to do something they don't want to do (or not do something
they want to do). They have greater freedom and less "no's" in their lives.
--Rob Saxon
DH to Seana for 10 years!
"Daddy!" to Genevieve (5.5) and Elissa (4.25)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
rules - generally every time two or more members would have a conflict
of expectations we'd figure out how to make a "house rule" to cover
that area. The most infamous was the "last beer rule". All the men in
the community had an expectation that the last beer "belonged" to
whoever had bought beer that time 'round. All the women had the
assumption that if it didn't have someone's name on it, it was up for
grabs. The last beer rule was such a major community issue we made a
big poster with it and hung it up where any new member or vistor could
see.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
>I do idealize anarchy at times, I reallyI used to live in a small anarchist community, and we definately had
> do, but I also see the rules as guides
rules - generally every time two or more members would have a conflict
of expectations we'd figure out how to make a "house rule" to cover
that area. The most infamous was the "last beer rule". All the men in
the community had an expectation that the last beer "belonged" to
whoever had bought beer that time 'round. All the women had the
assumption that if it didn't have someone's name on it, it was up for
grabs. The last beer rule was such a major community issue we made a
big poster with it and hung it up where any new member or vistor could
see.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/21/2007 6:22:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
meredith@... writes:
meredith@... writes:
--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>I do idealize anarchy at times, I really
> do, but I also see the rules as guides
I used to live in a small anarchist community, and we definately had
rules - generally every time two or more members would have a conflict
of expectations we'd figure out how to make a "house rule" to cover
that area. The most infamous was the "last beer rule". All the men in
the community had an expectation that the last beer "belonged" to
whoever had bought beer that time 'round. All the women had the
assumption that if it didn't have someone's name on it, it was up for
grabs. The last beer rule was such a major community issue we made a
big poster with it and hung it up where any new member or vistor could
see.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Meredith, thanks for telling us about that. How interesting and neat. I'm
glad I know that.
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dianna Glick
Hi Meredith,
My son was standing behind me when I was reading this post and he asked me if I could write and ask you if 'a small anarchist community' is a micro-nation? He wants to start his own peaceful micro-nation and has spent days researching this project.
Thank you!
Dianna
thehomeopathicway.blogspot.com
Kidgie@... wrote:
In a message dated 6/21/2007 6:22:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
meredith@... writes:
My son was standing behind me when I was reading this post and he asked me if I could write and ask you if 'a small anarchist community' is a micro-nation? He wants to start his own peaceful micro-nation and has spent days researching this project.
Thank you!
Dianna
thehomeopathicway.blogspot.com
Kidgie@... wrote:
In a message dated 6/21/2007 6:22:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
meredith@... writes:
--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>I do idealize anarchy at times, I really
> do, but I also see the rules as guides
I used to live in a small anarchist community, and we definately had
rules - generally every time two or more members would have a conflict
of expectations we'd figure out how to make a "house rule" to cover
that area. The most infamous was the "last beer rule". All the men in
the community had an expectation that the last beer "belonged" to
whoever had bought beer that time 'round. All the women had the
assumption that if it didn't have someone's name on it, it was up for
grabs. The last beer rule was such a major community issue we made a
big poster with it and hung it up where any new member or vistor could
see.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Meredith, thanks for telling us about that. How interesting and neat. I'm
glad I know that.
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]