Re: [unschoolingbasics] What would you have done?
Schuyler
I love your husband! What a great response, "I can't help if their parents
are arbitrary." He's right. Your children were under parental supervision,
they weren't being dangerous in a dangerous situation, they weren't being
destructive, they weren't being arbitrary. I imagine if someone came along
and asked you to leave, that after complaining about the advertised
completion date, you and yours would have left.
We go swimming every Thursday with a group of homeschoolers. There are rules
that the pool posts and operates on. There are lifeguards present. The other
day we were all jumping into the deep end and swimming to the side and
getting out. I got the whistle blown at me. I didn't know why so I asked.
The lifeguard explained that cannonballs weren't allowed, I had pulled my
legs up slightly, which produced a wonderful splash. But that didn't mean I
couldn't keep jumping in. If I'd assumed that they were whistling at the
jumping I could have chosen to stop Simon and Linnaea and David from
jumping. I was nervous about jumping from the side of the pool to begin
with, I thought, even though it wasn't labelled on the many don'ts board,
that maybe jumping into the deep end, particularly with Linnaea not being
the strongest of swimmers, that it might be out of bounds. But it wasn't.
The only thing we did wrong that whole 30 minutes or so of joyfully jumping
in the pool was that I made a big, big splash.
It is funny the things that can make you nervous. You write " I told my
husband that I simply thought it was respectful not to use the playground
until it was ready, after all none the other kids at the park were able to,
because their parents wouldn't let them." But someone could use that
argument to not unschool. I've thought about that when I watch Simon's or
Linnaea's friends envying aspects of our lives, asking me to talk to their
mom to see if they could have or do what we do. I know that just by living
as we live I am making their lives more difficult because our lives
underscore the lies that their parents tell them. I know that the children
whose parents pull them away from playing in the rain water underneath the
ancient guardhouse latrine at Barnard Castle while Simon and Linnaea wade,
giggle and splash will only know that they aren't allowed to do what mine
can freely and happily do.And maybe they'll come up with justifications,
maybe they'll make it better in their minds by saying that my children are
wild or yobbish (the UK's white trash) or not as smart or as well educated,
and I won't stop them, but that's a lie as well. And that doesn't make it
alright for me to make Simon's or Linnaea's life smaller. My children are
not models of how to have a structured and by the rules kind of life. The
funny thing, though, is that we are very good at following the rules. The
other day, when we were in London getting Simon's passport renewed, there
was a rule we were choosing to follow. I can't remember what it was. I
really can't remember, but it led to a discussion about following rules and
how, because we don't have rules in our own lives, we follow the rules that
others set pretty well. It seems, however falsely, that if there is a rule
it must be for a reason, and unless the reason is ludicrous, we tend to
respect the rule. That doesn't mean we mindlessly follow, but it means that
Simon and Linnaea are more likely to follow a rule than are their more
rulebound peers.
So, I would have swung and played and laughed and enjoyed the moment of
having the new park all to ourselves.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
are arbitrary." He's right. Your children were under parental supervision,
they weren't being dangerous in a dangerous situation, they weren't being
destructive, they weren't being arbitrary. I imagine if someone came along
and asked you to leave, that after complaining about the advertised
completion date, you and yours would have left.
We go swimming every Thursday with a group of homeschoolers. There are rules
that the pool posts and operates on. There are lifeguards present. The other
day we were all jumping into the deep end and swimming to the side and
getting out. I got the whistle blown at me. I didn't know why so I asked.
The lifeguard explained that cannonballs weren't allowed, I had pulled my
legs up slightly, which produced a wonderful splash. But that didn't mean I
couldn't keep jumping in. If I'd assumed that they were whistling at the
jumping I could have chosen to stop Simon and Linnaea and David from
jumping. I was nervous about jumping from the side of the pool to begin
with, I thought, even though it wasn't labelled on the many don'ts board,
that maybe jumping into the deep end, particularly with Linnaea not being
the strongest of swimmers, that it might be out of bounds. But it wasn't.
The only thing we did wrong that whole 30 minutes or so of joyfully jumping
in the pool was that I made a big, big splash.
It is funny the things that can make you nervous. You write " I told my
husband that I simply thought it was respectful not to use the playground
until it was ready, after all none the other kids at the park were able to,
because their parents wouldn't let them." But someone could use that
argument to not unschool. I've thought about that when I watch Simon's or
Linnaea's friends envying aspects of our lives, asking me to talk to their
mom to see if they could have or do what we do. I know that just by living
as we live I am making their lives more difficult because our lives
underscore the lies that their parents tell them. I know that the children
whose parents pull them away from playing in the rain water underneath the
ancient guardhouse latrine at Barnard Castle while Simon and Linnaea wade,
giggle and splash will only know that they aren't allowed to do what mine
can freely and happily do.And maybe they'll come up with justifications,
maybe they'll make it better in their minds by saying that my children are
wild or yobbish (the UK's white trash) or not as smart or as well educated,
and I won't stop them, but that's a lie as well. And that doesn't make it
alright for me to make Simon's or Linnaea's life smaller. My children are
not models of how to have a structured and by the rules kind of life. The
funny thing, though, is that we are very good at following the rules. The
other day, when we were in London getting Simon's passport renewed, there
was a rule we were choosing to follow. I can't remember what it was. I
really can't remember, but it led to a discussion about following rules and
how, because we don't have rules in our own lives, we follow the rules that
others set pretty well. It seems, however falsely, that if there is a rule
it must be for a reason, and unless the reason is ludicrous, we tend to
respect the rule. That doesn't mean we mindlessly follow, but it means that
Simon and Linnaea are more likely to follow a rule than are their more
rulebound peers.
So, I would have swung and played and laughed and enjoyed the moment of
having the new park all to ourselves.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
> I'm just really
> wondering how some of you would of handled this...would you of played
> at the park, or no?
>
>
> Kendrah :)
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Sylvia Toyama
I would have found anther place for the kids to play. If it's blocked by orange tape, or a sign saying it's closed for renovations, or whatever barrier they had, then it's closed. Even tho it looks finished, there still may be reasons for it's closure. Maybe they've not completed the necessary inspections for city insurance, or maybe the structural support isn't in place and it really is dangerous. It's also about respect, too. It doesn't matter why the city still had it closed.
Sylvia
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MrsStranahan
My kids and I were at the park during school hours one day and the
sprinklers were on. My kids asked if they could play in them. It would have
made me more comfortable to say "No" but I said "Yes." They were having a
blast running and jumping and getting soaked. I was having a lot of anxiety
about 'getting in trouble' from the park worker who was watching us while he
maintained the grounds. When the park worker walked over to us I prepared
myself for him to tell us to stop. Instead he just wanted to let us know he
was going to be turning this sprinkler off but he was turning another one on
in another part of the field and he pointed us in the right direction.
I had made an assumption based on my own fears that the worker thought we
were a pain in his behind out running and playing and messing in his water.
He didn't think that at all.
I'm glad I said yes that day.
Lauren
Steven, 21
Shane, 14
Olivia, 8
Jack, 6
sprinklers were on. My kids asked if they could play in them. It would have
made me more comfortable to say "No" but I said "Yes." They were having a
blast running and jumping and getting soaked. I was having a lot of anxiety
about 'getting in trouble' from the park worker who was watching us while he
maintained the grounds. When the park worker walked over to us I prepared
myself for him to tell us to stop. Instead he just wanted to let us know he
was going to be turning this sprinkler off but he was turning another one on
in another part of the field and he pointed us in the right direction.
I had made an assumption based on my own fears that the worker thought we
were a pain in his behind out running and playing and messing in his water.
He didn't think that at all.
I'm glad I said yes that day.
Lauren
Steven, 21
Shane, 14
Olivia, 8
Jack, 6
On 6/18/07, Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> I love your husband! What a great response, "I can't help if their
> parents
> are arbitrary." He's right. Your children were under parental supervision,
>
> they weren't being dangerous in a dangerous situation, they weren't being
> destructive, they weren't being arbitrary. I imagine if someone came along
>
> and asked you to leave, that after complaining about the advertised
> completion date, you and yours would have left.
>
> We go swimming every Thursday with a group of homeschoolers. There are
> rules
> that the pool posts and operates on. There are lifeguards present. The
> other
> day we were all jumping into the deep end and swimming to the side and
> getting out. I got the whistle blown at me. I didn't know why so I asked.
> The lifeguard explained that cannonballs weren't allowed, I had pulled my
> legs up slightly, which produced a wonderful splash. But that didn't mean
> I
> couldn't keep jumping in. If I'd assumed that they were whistling at the
> jumping I could have chosen to stop Simon and Linnaea and David from
> jumping. I was nervous about jumping from the side of the pool to begin
> with, I thought, even though it wasn't labelled on the many don'ts board,
> that maybe jumping into the deep end, particularly with Linnaea not being
> the strongest of swimmers, that it might be out of bounds. But it wasn't.
> The only thing we did wrong that whole 30 minutes or so of joyfully
> jumping
> in the pool was that I made a big, big splash.
>
> It is funny the things that can make you nervous. You write " I told my
> husband that I simply thought it was respectful not to use the playground
> until it was ready, after all none the other kids at the park were able
> to,
> because their parents wouldn't let them." But someone could use that
> argument to not unschool. I've thought about that when I watch Simon's or
> Linnaea's friends envying aspects of our lives, asking me to talk to their
>
> mom to see if they could have or do what we do. I know that just by living
>
> as we live I am making their lives more difficult because our lives
> underscore the lies that their parents tell them. I know that the children
>
> whose parents pull them away from playing in the rain water underneath the
>
> ancient guardhouse latrine at Barnard Castle while Simon and Linnaea wade,
>
> giggle and splash will only know that they aren't allowed to do what mine
> can freely and happily do.And maybe they'll come up with justifications,
> maybe they'll make it better in their minds by saying that my children are
>
> wild or yobbish (the UK's white trash) or not as smart or as well
> educated,
> and I won't stop them, but that's a lie as well. And that doesn't make it
> alright for me to make Simon's or Linnaea's life smaller. My children are
> not models of how to have a structured and by the rules kind of life. The
> funny thing, though, is that we are very good at following the rules. The
> other day, when we were in London getting Simon's passport renewed, there
> was a rule we were choosing to follow. I can't remember what it was. I
> really can't remember, but it led to a discussion about following rules
> and
> how, because we don't have rules in our own lives, we follow the rules
> that
> others set pretty well. It seems, however falsely, that if there is a rule
>
> it must be for a reason, and unless the reason is ludicrous, we tend to
> respect the rule. That doesn't mean we mindlessly follow, but it means
> that
> Simon and Linnaea are more likely to follow a rule than are their more
> rulebound peers.
>
> So, I would have swung and played and laughed and enjoyed the moment of
> having the new park all to ourselves.
>
> Schuyler
> www.waynforth.blogspot.com
>
> > I'm just really
> > wondering how some of you would of handled this...would you of played
> > at the park, or no?
> >
> >
> > Kendrah :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~I'm just really
wondering how some of you would of handled this...would you of played
at the park, or no?~~
Sure.
I would have looked for possible dangers, like sharp nails or whatever
construction debris might be around. I might have asked my children to
stay right near me, in case someone was upset that we were there, so
they wouldn't have to deal with it on their own. I think that was a
great way to explore a bit of the park and handle your child's
disappointment without hurting a thing.:)
I really like your dh! lol
What a great response too. I often ask myself "what is the worse thing
that can happen?" when faced with something that makes me
uncomfortable. In the case of your park, you would have been asked to
leave. Big deal.
It wasn't hurting anyone, it wasn't putting any of the children at
risk....go for it says I.
Even if the worse thing that can happen is death, I might still choose
to do it. I've climbed some of the Cascades, knowing that people died
up there. Those were some of my best memories ever....it was worth the
risk (which really isn't that great at all, if you're properly prepared).
I think we're waaaaay to worried about looking proper to other people
in this society. Would it have mattered at all, if none of the other
parents cared, or perhaps weren't even there? How about letting loose
and doing what is FUN once in a while?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
wondering how some of you would of handled this...would you of played
at the park, or no?~~
Sure.
I would have looked for possible dangers, like sharp nails or whatever
construction debris might be around. I might have asked my children to
stay right near me, in case someone was upset that we were there, so
they wouldn't have to deal with it on their own. I think that was a
great way to explore a bit of the park and handle your child's
disappointment without hurting a thing.:)
I really like your dh! lol
What a great response too. I often ask myself "what is the worse thing
that can happen?" when faced with something that makes me
uncomfortable. In the case of your park, you would have been asked to
leave. Big deal.
It wasn't hurting anyone, it wasn't putting any of the children at
risk....go for it says I.
Even if the worse thing that can happen is death, I might still choose
to do it. I've climbed some of the Cascades, knowing that people died
up there. Those were some of my best memories ever....it was worth the
risk (which really isn't that great at all, if you're properly prepared).
I think we're waaaaay to worried about looking proper to other people
in this society. Would it have mattered at all, if none of the other
parents cared, or perhaps weren't even there? How about letting loose
and doing what is FUN once in a while?
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~It's also about respect, too. It doesn't matter why the city still
had it closed.~~
I doubt any individual would feel disprespected by someone ignoring
the orange tape.
I remember a few years ago, when Bleu and I were training for
triathlon, the closest outdoor pool had some revamping construction
going on. It had nothing to do with the pool itself. They were putting
up a new fence and a new lifegaurd center and whatnot. So the only
barrier to the pool was an orange, plastic fence. It was easy to get past.
So we did.
At night, when nobody else was around, we snuck in with the kids and
went swimming. We were very careful to put the floaties back in place
and swim quietly...but we figured the worse that can happen is someone
calls the city or the cops and they tell us to leave. Maybe even fine
us for trespassing (even though there were no signs saying we couldn't
be there:)
The risk was worth it to us. We had a ball, swimming in the dark after
the pool was closed! The kids would just giggle and giggle when we
snuck in. Too funny.
But we talked about leaving things the way they were and not hurting
anything. We weren't being disresepctful of property, just rules. We
knew there might be consequences to our actions and we talked about
that too.
In the end, we carried some fabulous memories with us of swimming late
at night in the hot evenings of Florida. Very sweet memories indeed.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
had it closed.~~
I doubt any individual would feel disprespected by someone ignoring
the orange tape.
I remember a few years ago, when Bleu and I were training for
triathlon, the closest outdoor pool had some revamping construction
going on. It had nothing to do with the pool itself. They were putting
up a new fence and a new lifegaurd center and whatnot. So the only
barrier to the pool was an orange, plastic fence. It was easy to get past.
So we did.
At night, when nobody else was around, we snuck in with the kids and
went swimming. We were very careful to put the floaties back in place
and swim quietly...but we figured the worse that can happen is someone
calls the city or the cops and they tell us to leave. Maybe even fine
us for trespassing (even though there were no signs saying we couldn't
be there:)
The risk was worth it to us. We had a ball, swimming in the dark after
the pool was closed! The kids would just giggle and giggle when we
snuck in. Too funny.
But we talked about leaving things the way they were and not hurting
anything. We weren't being disresepctful of property, just rules. We
knew there might be consequences to our actions and we talked about
that too.
In the end, we carried some fabulous memories with us of swimming late
at night in the hot evenings of Florida. Very sweet memories indeed.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Anne Marie Shotwell
Hi Kendrah,
What is funny is this is more me and not my husband but in this case, I
have to agree with Sylvia and I am with you, I would have been very
uncomfortable mostly because it would be a safety issue for me. We had a
similar situation at one of our favorite parks. They did not have an
open date sign up thankfully but much to the boys disappointment we kept
stopping back and the playground was clearly finished but still wrapped
in the orange plastic fencing. The park ranger said it had to be
inspected for safety before they could open it and it was nice to know
that there is that standard for safety.
...He told me "I can't help it if their parents are arbitrary."
I don't understand how a parent can be faulted for being arbitrary by
simply not allowing a child play in a clearly off-limits area. Did the
other parents allow them the day before and were now denying them
today?...that is my understanding of being arbitrary.
Anne Marie
What is funny is this is more me and not my husband but in this case, I
have to agree with Sylvia and I am with you, I would have been very
uncomfortable mostly because it would be a safety issue for me. We had a
similar situation at one of our favorite parks. They did not have an
open date sign up thankfully but much to the boys disappointment we kept
stopping back and the playground was clearly finished but still wrapped
in the orange plastic fencing. The park ranger said it had to be
inspected for safety before they could open it and it was nice to know
that there is that standard for safety.
...He told me "I can't help it if their parents are arbitrary."
I don't understand how a parent can be faulted for being arbitrary by
simply not allowing a child play in a clearly off-limits area. Did the
other parents allow them the day before and were now denying them
today?...that is my understanding of being arbitrary.
Anne Marie
Sylvia Toyama
At night, when nobody else was around, we snuck in with the kids and went swimming. We were very careful to put the floaties back in place and swim quietly...but we figured the worse that can happen is someone calls the city or the cops and they tell us to leave. Maybe even fine us for trespassing (even though there were no signs saying we couldn't
be there:)
The risk was worth it to us. We had a ball, swimming in the dark after the pool was closed! The kids would just giggle and giggle when we snuck in. Too funny.
But we talked about leaving things the way they were and not hurting anything. We weren't being disresepctful of property, just rules. We knew there might be consequences to our actions and we talked about that too.
****
There were risks bigger than just maybe being fined, tho. Had one of your kids been hurt, while swimming when the pool was closed, who would have been legally responsible -- you for breaking the rules, or the city for not properly securing the pool against your family?
Was there any cost to use the pool during regular business hours? Did you pay that admission when you sneaked in? How did you explain that to your kids? Would you have sneaked in afterhours had the pool been open during the day?
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be there:)
The risk was worth it to us. We had a ball, swimming in the dark after the pool was closed! The kids would just giggle and giggle when we snuck in. Too funny.
But we talked about leaving things the way they were and not hurting anything. We weren't being disresepctful of property, just rules. We knew there might be consequences to our actions and we talked about that too.
****
There were risks bigger than just maybe being fined, tho. Had one of your kids been hurt, while swimming when the pool was closed, who would have been legally responsible -- you for breaking the rules, or the city for not properly securing the pool against your family?
Was there any cost to use the pool during regular business hours? Did you pay that admission when you sneaked in? How did you explain that to your kids? Would you have sneaked in afterhours had the pool been open during the day?
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
I would have left and played somewhere else. I think Sylvia said it much the same as I
would, it's a matter of respect. The orange fence is saying Please don't play here. I would
have taken my kids in to look at the construction, but we wouldn't have gotten on the
toys. Part of it is that we wouldn't have known it was safe, and part of it is that the city has
legal obligations for insurance reasons, knowing that if it's not approved, they could have
their insurance jacked, or have to face fines. We live a life of freedom, with the
understanding that we don't infringe on the rights and responsibiities of others.
It's not really an arbitrary rule. I've seen how playgrounds go in, we watched them build
the one next to our house. Sometimes it's a small few bolts that haven't gone in.
Sometimes it has rained and the concrete base has been compromised. Not being a
professional play ground installer, however, I would not really feel comfortable entering a
construction site when there are over thirty playgrounds in our city.
I know we faced a similar issue, when we had our autism walk in the neighboring city. The
park it was held at was supposed to get a brand new playground the week before, and due
to bad weather it wasn't finished on time. Parts of it looked quite appealing, but it was
very obviously not even close to finished. We did our walk, and then had a picnic at
another one. We made sure to call the city and went to visit the park when it was finished.
And it was good.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-79@...>
wrote:
I told my husband that I simply
would, it's a matter of respect. The orange fence is saying Please don't play here. I would
have taken my kids in to look at the construction, but we wouldn't have gotten on the
toys. Part of it is that we wouldn't have known it was safe, and part of it is that the city has
legal obligations for insurance reasons, knowing that if it's not approved, they could have
their insurance jacked, or have to face fines. We live a life of freedom, with the
understanding that we don't infringe on the rights and responsibiities of others.
It's not really an arbitrary rule. I've seen how playgrounds go in, we watched them build
the one next to our house. Sometimes it's a small few bolts that haven't gone in.
Sometimes it has rained and the concrete base has been compromised. Not being a
professional play ground installer, however, I would not really feel comfortable entering a
construction site when there are over thirty playgrounds in our city.
I know we faced a similar issue, when we had our autism walk in the neighboring city. The
park it was held at was supposed to get a brand new playground the week before, and due
to bad weather it wasn't finished on time. Parts of it looked quite appealing, but it was
very obviously not even close to finished. We did our walk, and then had a picnic at
another one. We made sure to call the city and went to visit the park when it was finished.
And it was good.
Melissa
--- In [email protected], Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-79@...>
wrote:
I told my husband that I simply
> thought it was respectful not to use the playground until it was
> ready, after all none the other kids at the park were able to,
> because their parents wouldn't let them. He told me "I can't help it
> if their parents are arbitrary." I finally told him that I was
> leaving the playground because I was uncomfortable being in a place I
> knew I shouldn't (their was not a No Trespassing sign, but the bright
> orange fence blocking off the playground was my clue) and that I was
> going to walk around the park and they could join me when they were
> done. I'm wondering what you guys think. Looking back I missed out on
> spending some time with my kids by leaving, but someone has to be the
> responsible one, setting the good example, right?! I'm just really
> wondering how some of you would of handled this...would you of played
> at the park, or no?
>
>
> Kendrah :)
>
Ren Allen
~~ There were risks bigger than just maybe being fined, tho. Had one
of your kids been hurt, while swimming when the pool was closed, who
would have been legally responsible -- you for breaking the rules, or
the city for not properly securing the pool against your family?
Was there any cost to use the pool during regular business hours?
Did you pay that admission when you sneaked in? How did you explain
that to your kids? Would you have sneaked in afterhours had the pool
been open during the day?
Sylvia~~
Obviously, I was willing to take responsibility for any injuries
incurred while using a space someone else really didn't want people to
use. Yes, there was a cost and we really didn't have much money at the
time. We supported the pool by paying many times after that. The pool
WAS open during the day, we really wanted to swim at night.
Life's short. I do consider others but there is also an element of
risk I'm willing to take in order to enjoy occasional rule breaking.
To each his/her own. I try to weigh out the pro's and cons and
consider if its really hurting anyone. If not, have a little fun once
in a while. If you're not willing to accept the risk that goes with
it, then don't do it.
A bit of pool hopping is good, clean fun if not overly abused.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
of your kids been hurt, while swimming when the pool was closed, who
would have been legally responsible -- you for breaking the rules, or
the city for not properly securing the pool against your family?
Was there any cost to use the pool during regular business hours?
Did you pay that admission when you sneaked in? How did you explain
that to your kids? Would you have sneaked in afterhours had the pool
been open during the day?
Sylvia~~
Obviously, I was willing to take responsibility for any injuries
incurred while using a space someone else really didn't want people to
use. Yes, there was a cost and we really didn't have much money at the
time. We supported the pool by paying many times after that. The pool
WAS open during the day, we really wanted to swim at night.
Life's short. I do consider others but there is also an element of
risk I'm willing to take in order to enjoy occasional rule breaking.
To each his/her own. I try to weigh out the pro's and cons and
consider if its really hurting anyone. If not, have a little fun once
in a while. If you're not willing to accept the risk that goes with
it, then don't do it.
A bit of pool hopping is good, clean fun if not overly abused.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Susan
-=- The pool WAS open during the day, we really wanted to swim at
night. Life's short. ,snip> To each his/her own. I try to weigh out
the pro's and cons and consider if its really hurting anyone. If not,
have a little fun once in a while. <snip> A bit of pool hopping is
good, clean fun if not overly abused. -=-
This reminds me of when we are traveling -- often our schedule is very
different from the "typical" schedule many (most?) people keep. We eat
at different hours and stay up much later. We might ask the night
clerk to give us a small plate of pastries/muffins that are to be
served in the morning for the free continental breakfast (that we
won't be awake to take advantage of).
When we arrive at a hotel the pool is usually already closed. If we
are quiet as to not disturb anyone sleeping in rooms nearby (that's
the point of closing the pool at night, right?) then what/who are we
hurting by enjoying a midnight swim? We find it's very enjoyable to
swim at night. Of course we take responsibility for our own safety and
no one goes alone. We realize that if caught we will be asked to get
out or possibly, if the hotel is really uptight, asked to leave.
That's a risk we're willing to take.
When I come up against decisions based on fear-based reasoning I *try*
(work in progress) to do a mental pause and ask myself 3 questions:
"What's the worst that could happen, what are the realistic chances of
it actually occurring, and what can I do to lessen said risk?" Rigid
rules leave no room to rationally evaluate & appropriately react to
the circumstances at hand. IMO, some rules need to be broken once in a
while.
Not thinking things through but just trusting & complying with a rule
simply because it exists is not how I really want to live. Over time
this mental process has become easier and when I look at how it's paid
off, it's been very beneficial. That "compliant" way of thinking never
would have lead me to homeschooling, then unschooling, and now RU. It
would have kept me in the religion I was raised in even though it
holds no personal meaning for me and I probably wouldn't have tossed
off conventional expectations in order to have a relationship with DH,
which has added so much joy to my life.
-- Susan
night. Life's short. ,snip> To each his/her own. I try to weigh out
the pro's and cons and consider if its really hurting anyone. If not,
have a little fun once in a while. <snip> A bit of pool hopping is
good, clean fun if not overly abused. -=-
This reminds me of when we are traveling -- often our schedule is very
different from the "typical" schedule many (most?) people keep. We eat
at different hours and stay up much later. We might ask the night
clerk to give us a small plate of pastries/muffins that are to be
served in the morning for the free continental breakfast (that we
won't be awake to take advantage of).
When we arrive at a hotel the pool is usually already closed. If we
are quiet as to not disturb anyone sleeping in rooms nearby (that's
the point of closing the pool at night, right?) then what/who are we
hurting by enjoying a midnight swim? We find it's very enjoyable to
swim at night. Of course we take responsibility for our own safety and
no one goes alone. We realize that if caught we will be asked to get
out or possibly, if the hotel is really uptight, asked to leave.
That's a risk we're willing to take.
When I come up against decisions based on fear-based reasoning I *try*
(work in progress) to do a mental pause and ask myself 3 questions:
"What's the worst that could happen, what are the realistic chances of
it actually occurring, and what can I do to lessen said risk?" Rigid
rules leave no room to rationally evaluate & appropriately react to
the circumstances at hand. IMO, some rules need to be broken once in a
while.
Not thinking things through but just trusting & complying with a rule
simply because it exists is not how I really want to live. Over time
this mental process has become easier and when I look at how it's paid
off, it's been very beneficial. That "compliant" way of thinking never
would have lead me to homeschooling, then unschooling, and now RU. It
would have kept me in the religion I was raised in even though it
holds no personal meaning for me and I probably wouldn't have tossed
off conventional expectations in order to have a relationship with DH,
which has added so much joy to my life.
-- Susan
Sylvia Toyama
Not thinking things through but just trusting & complying with a rule
simply because it exists is not how I really want to live. Over time
this mental process has become easier and when I look at how it's paid
off, it's been very beneficial.
***
I wasn't advocating that one trust and comply blindly with a rule just because it's the rule. However, if you're visiting in someone else's home -- and after all the hotel pool doesn't belong to the guests -- then you follow their rules. It's just common courtesy. If you think the rule is stupid, then find a place where there are no rules you find stupid.
Thinking it thru -- as I also do with rules -- I wouldn't swim after hours. Sure, I could say I was willing to take responsbility should my kid be hurt, but woudl my insurance company feel the same way? In many cases, it's the insurance company, not the injured party, that decides to sue some other entity. It's not a right really left up to individual people these days.
Another difference is that unschooling is legal. We're not breaking any rules just by being unschoolers.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
simply because it exists is not how I really want to live. Over time
this mental process has become easier and when I look at how it's paid
off, it's been very beneficial.
***
I wasn't advocating that one trust and comply blindly with a rule just because it's the rule. However, if you're visiting in someone else's home -- and after all the hotel pool doesn't belong to the guests -- then you follow their rules. It's just common courtesy. If you think the rule is stupid, then find a place where there are no rules you find stupid.
Thinking it thru -- as I also do with rules -- I wouldn't swim after hours. Sure, I could say I was willing to take responsbility should my kid be hurt, but woudl my insurance company feel the same way? In many cases, it's the insurance company, not the injured party, that decides to sue some other entity. It's not a right really left up to individual people these days.
Another difference is that unschooling is legal. We're not breaking any rules just by being unschoolers.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~Another difference is that unschooling is legal. We're not breaking
any rules just by being unschoolers.~~
Many of us are.
There are many, many states in which the authorities would love to
harass anyone that was completely honest about what they're doing.
Some states you're ok, some you're not. There are hoops to jump
through and there is really NO legislation about unschooling
specifically. I doubt anyone would do very well in a court of law if
they didn't phrase things towards homeschooling and covering subjects,
rather than advocating straight up unschooling.
Depends where you live. Depends how you are or aren't documenting.
Depends on whether you decide to comply with law or not.
Unschooling isn't addressed by law. Most unschoolers are falling under
the homeschooling laws....I'd hate to see what would happen if
unschooling itself was challenged in court. There are ways to meet
legalities, that doesn't make unschooling itself legal...technically
speaking.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
any rules just by being unschoolers.~~
Many of us are.
There are many, many states in which the authorities would love to
harass anyone that was completely honest about what they're doing.
Some states you're ok, some you're not. There are hoops to jump
through and there is really NO legislation about unschooling
specifically. I doubt anyone would do very well in a court of law if
they didn't phrase things towards homeschooling and covering subjects,
rather than advocating straight up unschooling.
Depends where you live. Depends how you are or aren't documenting.
Depends on whether you decide to comply with law or not.
Unschooling isn't addressed by law. Most unschoolers are falling under
the homeschooling laws....I'd hate to see what would happen if
unschooling itself was challenged in court. There are ways to meet
legalities, that doesn't make unschooling itself legal...technically
speaking.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~That "compliant" way of thinking never
would have lead me to homeschooling, then unschooling, and now RU. ~~
Absolutely.
And as much as people like to say they are "legal"...RU is not
addressed by any law, so it can't really be legal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
would have lead me to homeschooling, then unschooling, and now RU. ~~
Absolutely.
And as much as people like to say they are "legal"...RU is not
addressed by any law, so it can't really be legal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Robyn Bentley
I have thought all day on this topic. I was not sure how I wanted to answer
the question. I know I am new to unschooling and do not quite think as
freely as many of you. But I dont think I would ever do that. I think we
should be respectful of other people and their property (even if it is the
city or state's). I know you (general you) say you would take
responsibility for injury but what about damage to the property. I know it
is not likely but what would have happened if while playing on the equipment
it broke from not being completed and then used. Would you pay to buy a new
one? Would you even say anything? By causing damage you put the project
behind in completion and cost them more money and their insurance costs go
up. All because you were impatient.
When you stop and ask your question to yourself do you ask the questions of
what will happen to the owner of said property should something happen or do
you just think of what will happen to you.
Maybe I am just not there yet in my thinking but I find NOTHING wrong with
respecting limitations others put on THEIR property.
Oh and it is just being asked to leave that could occur.. You could get
arrested. And depending on how uptight your state is.. Children's services
could be brought in. Maybe some are willing to accept those risks.
the question. I know I am new to unschooling and do not quite think as
freely as many of you. But I dont think I would ever do that. I think we
should be respectful of other people and their property (even if it is the
city or state's). I know you (general you) say you would take
responsibility for injury but what about damage to the property. I know it
is not likely but what would have happened if while playing on the equipment
it broke from not being completed and then used. Would you pay to buy a new
one? Would you even say anything? By causing damage you put the project
behind in completion and cost them more money and their insurance costs go
up. All because you were impatient.
When you stop and ask your question to yourself do you ask the questions of
what will happen to the owner of said property should something happen or do
you just think of what will happen to you.
Maybe I am just not there yet in my thinking but I find NOTHING wrong with
respecting limitations others put on THEIR property.
Oh and it is just being asked to leave that could occur.. You could get
arrested. And depending on how uptight your state is.. Children's services
could be brought in. Maybe some are willing to accept those risks.
On 6/18/07, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~That "compliant" way of thinking never
> would have lead me to homeschooling, then unschooling, and now RU. ~~
>
> Absolutely.
>
> And as much as people like to say they are "legal"...RU is not
> addressed by any law, so it can't really be legal.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~
Maybe I am just not there yet in my thinking but I find NOTHING wrong
with respecting limitations others put on THEIR property.~~
Technically, public property belongs to all taxpayers.
And I would find it laughable to have someone call a cop over a Dad
investigating newly finished construction with his children. Are you
serious? I think most cops have more important things to do. I'm
pretty sure that IF a city official saw a parent WITH their child,
carefully exploring a new park area that was not offically open yet,
they'd just ask you to leave.
I remember when our park was torn up in Pensacola and there was a big
mound of dirt that was technically "off limits". The construction guys
were fine with the kids climbing on it for a bit, then suggested we
might just have them play at the base in case someone fussed. Even
they didn't think it a big deal. We eventually convinced the kids to
go play in another area. But letting them explore that dirt mound for
a while took the edge off.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Maybe I am just not there yet in my thinking but I find NOTHING wrong
with respecting limitations others put on THEIR property.~~
Technically, public property belongs to all taxpayers.
And I would find it laughable to have someone call a cop over a Dad
investigating newly finished construction with his children. Are you
serious? I think most cops have more important things to do. I'm
pretty sure that IF a city official saw a parent WITH their child,
carefully exploring a new park area that was not offically open yet,
they'd just ask you to leave.
I remember when our park was torn up in Pensacola and there was a big
mound of dirt that was technically "off limits". The construction guys
were fine with the kids climbing on it for a bit, then suggested we
might just have them play at the base in case someone fussed. Even
they didn't think it a big deal. We eventually convinced the kids to
go play in another area. But letting them explore that dirt mound for
a while took the edge off.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Robyn Bentley
I wasnt strictly referring to the park incident. I was referring to any
incident where you are basically breaking and entering an area off limits to
you. Was he just walking around looking at it or allowing the kids to
"test" it out. I was referring to if they were playing on the equipment.
You are right.. 9 times out of 10 you will just be asked to leave and be
looked at sternly.
You are right the tax payers "own" it in a round about sense and should
anything happen to that park the tax payers would have to pay yet again to
fix it. Monies that could be used someplace else. Why risk damaging
something or harming yourself when you could just wait until there is some
sign that the park is now safe to use.
That is just how I feel about the situation.
It is one thing to risk your own safety and possibly life but isnt it a bit
much to be risking your child's too.
I am strictly referring to issues of safety. There was no way they would
know if a piece of equipment was safe to use yet.
incident where you are basically breaking and entering an area off limits to
you. Was he just walking around looking at it or allowing the kids to
"test" it out. I was referring to if they were playing on the equipment.
You are right.. 9 times out of 10 you will just be asked to leave and be
looked at sternly.
You are right the tax payers "own" it in a round about sense and should
anything happen to that park the tax payers would have to pay yet again to
fix it. Monies that could be used someplace else. Why risk damaging
something or harming yourself when you could just wait until there is some
sign that the park is now safe to use.
That is just how I feel about the situation.
It is one thing to risk your own safety and possibly life but isnt it a bit
much to be risking your child's too.
I am strictly referring to issues of safety. There was no way they would
know if a piece of equipment was safe to use yet.
On 6/18/07, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~
> Maybe I am just not there yet in my thinking but I find NOTHING wrong
> with respecting limitations others put on THEIR property.~~
>
> Technically, public property belongs to all taxpayers.
>
> And I would find it laughable to have someone call a cop over a Dad
> investigating newly finished construction with his children. Are you
> serious? I think most cops have more important things to do. I'm
> pretty sure that IF a city official saw a parent WITH their child,
> carefully exploring a new park area that was not offically open yet,
> they'd just ask you to leave.
>
> I remember when our park was torn up in Pensacola and there was a big
> mound of dirt that was technically "off limits". The construction guys
> were fine with the kids climbing on it for a bit, then suggested we
> might just have them play at the base in case someone fussed. Even
> they didn't think it a big deal. We eventually convinced the kids to
> go play in another area. But letting them explore that dirt mound for
> a while took the edge off.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan
Hi Robyn ~ were you addressing this to me (the one who posted about
swimming at the hotel) or the to original poster (about the
playground)? It seemed there were responses to both or maybe it was
general questioning.
-=- I know it is not likely but what would have happened if while
playing on the equipment it broke from not being completed and then
used. Would you pay to buy a new one? Would you even say anything?
-=-
Damage can (and does) happen at any time of the day to any public
facility. If my child breaks a plastic step climbing up the slide at
the county pool, am I expected to write them a check to pay for it?
Aren't that what my taxes are for? I'm going to tell someone it
happened and check to make sure my child is okay.
If something is broke during the day - if you sit on a lounge chair
and the leg falls off - are you going to offer to pay for it? Do we
stop to concern ourselves with the hotel's potential liability and
increased insurance fees if we have an accident while visiting the
pool after breakfast? These aren't questions we really consider before
entering the pool during regular hours.
At the hotel pools I've visited, there is no lifeguard on duty during
"open" hours and there is no other safety feature in place during the
day that makes a night swim less safe. One could argue that light is a
factor and that makes it riskier. However, at most hotels the pools
are lit up all night and even if they aren't directly lit by
underwater lights, there are always light sources nearby, so even that
isn't much different. In most cases, a sign saying "closed" or "open"
doesn't cause a corresponding change to the physical environment of
the pool and it doesn't create or remove safety risks.
We've asked sweetly and have been given permission to use the pool in
the middle of the night at several hotels, as long as we aren't loud
or disruptive. That's the main concern of the hotel staff.
-=- You could get arrested. And depending on how uptight your state
is. Children's services could be brought in. Maybe some are willing
to accept those risks. -=-
I guess hypothetically that could happen - heck anything could
*potentially* happen, maybe, but it's highly unlikely and I think
there would have to be more to the situation than just a family at a
new playground or swimming late in a hotel pool.
Again, I'm not saying that everyone should make the same decision in
this situation, or that's our decision is an incredibly wise choice,
or that there aren't any risks involved, but I don't think it's
helpful to act upon or make decisions based on something that is
extremely improbable. I've found that fear gets in the way of clear
thinking more often than not, but maybe I'm just more of a rebel than
I thought, I don't know. It's possible.
-- Susan
swimming at the hotel) or the to original poster (about the
playground)? It seemed there were responses to both or maybe it was
general questioning.
-=- I know it is not likely but what would have happened if while
playing on the equipment it broke from not being completed and then
used. Would you pay to buy a new one? Would you even say anything?
-=-
Damage can (and does) happen at any time of the day to any public
facility. If my child breaks a plastic step climbing up the slide at
the county pool, am I expected to write them a check to pay for it?
Aren't that what my taxes are for? I'm going to tell someone it
happened and check to make sure my child is okay.
If something is broke during the day - if you sit on a lounge chair
and the leg falls off - are you going to offer to pay for it? Do we
stop to concern ourselves with the hotel's potential liability and
increased insurance fees if we have an accident while visiting the
pool after breakfast? These aren't questions we really consider before
entering the pool during regular hours.
At the hotel pools I've visited, there is no lifeguard on duty during
"open" hours and there is no other safety feature in place during the
day that makes a night swim less safe. One could argue that light is a
factor and that makes it riskier. However, at most hotels the pools
are lit up all night and even if they aren't directly lit by
underwater lights, there are always light sources nearby, so even that
isn't much different. In most cases, a sign saying "closed" or "open"
doesn't cause a corresponding change to the physical environment of
the pool and it doesn't create or remove safety risks.
We've asked sweetly and have been given permission to use the pool in
the middle of the night at several hotels, as long as we aren't loud
or disruptive. That's the main concern of the hotel staff.
-=- You could get arrested. And depending on how uptight your state
is. Children's services could be brought in. Maybe some are willing
to accept those risks. -=-
I guess hypothetically that could happen - heck anything could
*potentially* happen, maybe, but it's highly unlikely and I think
there would have to be more to the situation than just a family at a
new playground or swimming late in a hotel pool.
Again, I'm not saying that everyone should make the same decision in
this situation, or that's our decision is an incredibly wise choice,
or that there aren't any risks involved, but I don't think it's
helpful to act upon or make decisions based on something that is
extremely improbable. I've found that fear gets in the way of clear
thinking more often than not, but maybe I'm just more of a rebel than
I thought, I don't know. It's possible.
-- Susan
Robyn Bentley
On 6/19/07, Kendrah Nilsestuen <carebear-79@...> wrote:
respecting the rules of others. Respecting them and blindly following
things are different in my eyes. I have gone into parks when they are
"closed" and technically you arent suppose to be there.. But I dont think I
would overlook the rules for an area under construction. I am not
qualified to judge whether a piece of equipment or an area is safe to be
used. And because of that I would respect and follow the rules.. I would
wait until I know for sure the equipment or area is safe for my children to
use.
.
>I can totally see what you are saying. I dont know myself. I believe in
> If their was a safety issue and an unsupervised
> child fell and hurt themselves with NO parent around, would that be
> better? Or is it better to be open to all possibilities to let our
> children experiment safely? I would hope that being a reasonable
> parent my kids would feel comfortable communicating with me, however
> if they feel my disapproval looming how are they to communicate with
> me about what they want to do? Still I want to show my children that
> being respectful is important. That sometimes maybe their is good
> reason we have to follow "rules", but as they grow to always be open
> to questioning those reasons for themselves. Seems like a really
> tough balance.
>
> Kendrah
>
respecting the rules of others. Respecting them and blindly following
things are different in my eyes. I have gone into parks when they are
"closed" and technically you arent suppose to be there.. But I dont think I
would overlook the rules for an area under construction. I am not
qualified to judge whether a piece of equipment or an area is safe to be
used. And because of that I would respect and follow the rules.. I would
wait until I know for sure the equipment or area is safe for my children to
use.
.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Robyn Bentley
I wasnt directing my statements or questions to anyone specifically. I
meant generally.
meant generally.
On 6/19/07, Susan <SusanYvonne@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Robyn ~ were you addressing this to me (the one who posted about
> swimming at the hotel) or the to original poster (about the
> playground)? It seemed there were responses to both or maybe it was
> general questioning.
>
> I meant if the equipment was completed and while using it you caused it to
> be damaged.. I dont mean during normal play on a secured piece of
> equipment. I mean something that isnt ready to be used. Some things if you
> use them before they are installed completely can damage them to a point
> they cant be used. That is what I meant. In a situation like that, where
> you werent suppose to use it yet, would you offer to replace it.
>
> Damage can (and does) happen at any time of the day to any public
> facility. If my child breaks a plastic step climbing up the slide at
> the county pool, am I expected to write them a check to pay for it?
> Aren't that what my taxes are for? I'm going to tell someone it
> happened and check to make sure my child is okay.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Bentley
> > I meant if the equipment was NOT (I forgot the word NOT) completed and[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > while using it you caused it to be damaged.. I
> >
>
Susan
-=- I am not qualified to judge whether a piece of equipment or an
area is safe to be used. And because of that I would respect and
follow the rules. I would wait until I know for sure the equipment or
area is safe for my children to use. -=-
I understand what you're saying here and that's a good point (not
being qualified to judge the equipment's completion status). But this
is about a concern for your children's physical safety, not about
respecting the rules. The rules just happen to agree with your
assessment of the situation in this case. ;) Ultimately, you might
arrive at a decision that is consistent with the rules, but there's a
big difference in the mental process. You've thought each situation
over for *yourself* and determined whether or not you are comfortable
with the potential risk.
-=- Respecting them and blindly following things are different in my
eyes. I have gone into parks when they are "closed" and technically
you aren't suppose to be there. -=-
And you didn't have a problem with this because you couldn't see an
inherent danger in just visiting the park after-hours. Again, not
about respecting the rules just because they are there, but about
evaluating the risk and weighing it against desire & need.
-- Susan
area is safe to be used. And because of that I would respect and
follow the rules. I would wait until I know for sure the equipment or
area is safe for my children to use. -=-
I understand what you're saying here and that's a good point (not
being qualified to judge the equipment's completion status). But this
is about a concern for your children's physical safety, not about
respecting the rules. The rules just happen to agree with your
assessment of the situation in this case. ;) Ultimately, you might
arrive at a decision that is consistent with the rules, but there's a
big difference in the mental process. You've thought each situation
over for *yourself* and determined whether or not you are comfortable
with the potential risk.
-=- Respecting them and blindly following things are different in my
eyes. I have gone into parks when they are "closed" and technically
you aren't suppose to be there. -=-
And you didn't have a problem with this because you couldn't see an
inherent danger in just visiting the park after-hours. Again, not
about respecting the rules just because they are there, but about
evaluating the risk and weighing it against desire & need.
-- Susan
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
One word: Common sense
The dad was exploring the park with the kids safely in a public property.
No one was breaking in private property or destroying/damaging anything.
Come on......a little fun without anyone getting hurt.
No one is running the red light and putting anyone in danger. No one is really breaking the law.
If it makes you feel unconfortable don't do it. If you you do just be safe and respectful of others and things.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The dad was exploring the park with the kids safely in a public property.
No one was breaking in private property or destroying/damaging anything.
Come on......a little fun without anyone getting hurt.
No one is running the red light and putting anyone in danger. No one is really breaking the law.
If it makes you feel unconfortable don't do it. If you you do just be safe and respectful of others and things.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Just to add to the red light coment . There are times you Should run the red light if its for YOUR safety ( like someone posted).
Alex
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: What would you have done?
One word: Common sense
The dad was exploring the park with the kids safely in a public property.
No one was breaking in private property or destroying/damaging anything.
Come on......a little fun without anyone getting hurt.
No one is running the red light and putting anyone in danger. No one is really breaking the law.
If it makes you feel unconfortable don't do it. If you you do just be safe and respectful of others and things.
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brad Holcomb
Pools:
I travel weekly for my job, so have a lot of experience with hotels, mostly
w/ the Hilton and Marriott chains. I've been a frequent enough guest at
several of these places to become good friends with the staff and
management.
Based on this experience, I can say with no hesitation that the Open/Closed
hours on hotel pools exist for exactly ONE reason: to help prevent late
night loud parties. It doesn't eliminate them. If high-status guests
wanted to be rowdy in the pool at 3am, the staff would not necessarily run
them out unless they get complaints from other guests. And even then, a
"shhhhhh.you're bothering other guests" is more likely as a first response
in that situation. Having the posted hours DOES deter the infrequent guests
from planning late night kegger pool parties.
I have used many hotel pools and hot tubs "after hours". Sometimes I ask
the desk at check-in, "Are the hours on the pool strict, or will my keycard
still work at midnight?". Sometimes I call from my room on the way down to
the pool. But not always. There was one hotel who said the hours were
strict simply because the pool was in an open atrium area with 50 rooms
surrounding it on 3 floors, and even a normal voice conversation would carry
and bother guests. When I told them I just wanted to relax quietly in the
hot tub alone, and would not be talking to myself, they said it was OK. J
Red lights:
I don't sit at a red light in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of the
night or whenever there is zero traffic on the cross street. Seems like a
waste of time, so in those situations I just treat it like a stop sign.stop
completely, examine the situation, and decide whether I want to proceed.
"Running a red light" is in my mind very different from proceeding through a
red light after stopping completely and evaluating.
--
Brad in Missouri, USA
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I travel weekly for my job, so have a lot of experience with hotels, mostly
w/ the Hilton and Marriott chains. I've been a frequent enough guest at
several of these places to become good friends with the staff and
management.
Based on this experience, I can say with no hesitation that the Open/Closed
hours on hotel pools exist for exactly ONE reason: to help prevent late
night loud parties. It doesn't eliminate them. If high-status guests
wanted to be rowdy in the pool at 3am, the staff would not necessarily run
them out unless they get complaints from other guests. And even then, a
"shhhhhh.you're bothering other guests" is more likely as a first response
in that situation. Having the posted hours DOES deter the infrequent guests
from planning late night kegger pool parties.
I have used many hotel pools and hot tubs "after hours". Sometimes I ask
the desk at check-in, "Are the hours on the pool strict, or will my keycard
still work at midnight?". Sometimes I call from my room on the way down to
the pool. But not always. There was one hotel who said the hours were
strict simply because the pool was in an open atrium area with 50 rooms
surrounding it on 3 floors, and even a normal voice conversation would carry
and bother guests. When I told them I just wanted to relax quietly in the
hot tub alone, and would not be talking to myself, they said it was OK. J
Red lights:
I don't sit at a red light in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of the
night or whenever there is zero traffic on the cross street. Seems like a
waste of time, so in those situations I just treat it like a stop sign.stop
completely, examine the situation, and decide whether I want to proceed.
"Running a red light" is in my mind very different from proceeding through a
red light after stopping completely and evaluating.
--
Brad in Missouri, USA
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Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Kendrah ,
It sounds like you are questioning your "unconfortable feelings".
It is the first step for you to realize if they are hindering you from having "fun " with your family.
Myabe if another situation comes up and after reasoning if its safe and not ahrmful to anyone/anything
you may want to try a little bit of it and see how it feels then.
Maybe you will have fun but feel guilty for going against a "rule" or "expectation.
Maybe you will be unconfortable but have fun , or feel unconfortable and NOT have fun...
Only you can make that decision.
But maybe try a little next time... and try to have fun....
or just have good memories of watching your family having fun. Take pictures, record it for them if you can!
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It sounds like you are questioning your "unconfortable feelings".
It is the first step for you to realize if they are hindering you from having "fun " with your family.
Myabe if another situation comes up and after reasoning if its safe and not ahrmful to anyone/anything
you may want to try a little bit of it and see how it feels then.
Maybe you will have fun but feel guilty for going against a "rule" or "expectation.
Maybe you will be unconfortable but have fun , or feel unconfortable and NOT have fun...
Only you can make that decision.
But maybe try a little next time... and try to have fun....
or just have good memories of watching your family having fun. Take pictures, record it for them if you can!
Alex
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]