[email protected]

All, I think my letter to the group got lost in the shuffle regarding the
teens and the murder issues...

So, I'll ask again! How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want unschooling
compared to the conventional education that they want right now? James is 17,
Grace is 15. I want them out of school and unschooling, they both want the
traditional/conventional ways. Besides leaving The Teenagers Guide by Grace
Llewellyn around and available, what else can I do? Should do? Thoughts on this?

Thanks!
Karen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alexandra

Hello again. :)

You can't make someone want something. Unschooling can seem scary and
weird. Remember, we are raised to think as homeschoolers are social
hermits who have no lives. Not to say some aren't, and it's important
to find other ways to socialize, but it might be good to befriend some
unschooling families, and invite them over for dinner some time. It
would help if they had teenagers, but it isn't that important. Try to
introduce them to some unschoolers who share similar interests.

And don't force anything on them. Remember that the kids choices are
what unschooling is about. Or at least I think so.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Kidgie@...

So, I'll ask again! How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want
unschooling
compared to the conventional education that they want right now? James
is 17,
Grace is 15. I want them out of school and unschooling, they both want
the
traditional/conventional ways.

-=-=-=-

Making them stay home against their will is as bad as making thme go to
school against their will.

-=-=-=-=-=

Besides leaving The Teenagers Guide by Grace
Llewellyn around and available, what else can I do? Should do? Thoughts
on this?

-=-=-=-=-=-

How interesting are your homeschool days? How about making your days at
home *much* snazzier than their days at school? If you have a
fun-filled week planned, they may decide that unschooling looks like
more fun and stay home.

Children WILL choose the better of the choices.

Monday---A day at the beach or a day at school?

Tuesday---A day full of popcorn, pizzas and movies in your pjs or a day
at school?

Wednesday---A day making sushi or a day at school?

Thursday---A day visiting the raptor center and picnicking or a day at
school?

Friday---A day building a butterfly garden or a day at school?

If you have an interesting thing to do each and every day, you might
actually BE more stimulating/exciting than school. BE that stimulating
and exciting!!!

And again---access to other unschooled teens is the best way---Live and
Learn in September! <wink wink> <nudge nudge>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




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[email protected]

>>So, I'll ask again! How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want
unschooling
compared to the conventional education that they want right now? James is
17,
Grace is 15. I want them out of school and unschooling, they both want the
traditional/traditional/<WBR>conventional ways. Besides leaving The Teenager
Llewellyn around and available, what else can I do? Should do? Thoughts on
this? <<

Two responses come to mind, and the second might strike people as
manipulative. But school is manipulative, so you can decide what you think...

First, you can't make them want something. You MIGHT be able to make them do
it (and at 17 and 15, that seems unlikely) but you can't make them like it.
And at 17, if he's been traditionally schooled all along and NOT hated it,
your son may figure he may as well finish up. But you can let him know he has a
choice, which is cool. Your daughter, a bit younger, seems a more likely
prospect.

So, my second idea. Bribe 'em. Is there something either or both would LOVE
to do, but school gets in the way? Or something they want? Tell them you'll
make it happen if they'll give unschooling six month's chance. Take them on an
amazing trip or buy them kayaks, or whatever. Be clear that you KNOW you're
bribing them, and why, and if they say no, accept gracefully and let them know
you want to support them in ALL their decisions. If they agree, and six
months later, want to go back to school, say thanks, and support them.

Unschooling is wonderful, but an even better gift is letting them know that
they have your support even if they make choices different than yours.

Kathryn




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Alice

--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want unschooling
> compared to the conventional education that they want right now?

*** I am guessing that their conventional ed is over for the summer?
Why not unschool right now to try it out. Discuss with them what
they would like to do etc. Then, after the summer, then can decide
whether to go back to school or not. And make sure to tell them that
if they do decide to go back to school, they can leave it again at
anytime. And reassure them that they are not giving up or failing!

If they go to school, continue to do fun things with them even during
school hours - like say, pick them up early and head to the beach
together or whatever. And YOU can stop worrying about grades,
homework, attendance etc. Another option, if they don't want to give
up school entirely, is to just take the classes of their choosing and
leave the rest. I know several homeschooled kids that do this.


Whatever they choose next year, you can continue to live your life and
lead your family in an unschooling direction. Read Grace Llewellyn's
"Guerrilla Learning" so that if they do choose school, you can take it
not so seriously. Focus on having great relationships with them and
listening to them. Like someone else said, they will choose whatever
they feel is better choice for them, so if they are still choosing
school, you may have to do some deep thinking and talking to them
about why. My own teen was very reluctant to leave school because he
thought homeschoolers were losers and he didn't want to be a loser.

anyway, just a few thoughts!
-alice
mom to Andrew 9 and Audrey 6
crazy auntie to Logan 14 (liberated 2 yrs ago) and Megan 17 (liberated
4 months ago!)

Julie

--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>

> So, I'll ask again! How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want
unschooling
> compared to the conventional education that they want right now?
James is 17,
> Grace is 15. I want them out of school and unschooling, they both
want the
> traditional/conventional ways.


At 15 and 17 I would ask why you want them out of school and why they
want to stay in. At those ages it is scary being told that you can
basically drop out suddenly they may want to stay in. Are there issues
with school performance? other teens? It may be easier to answer you
if we knew those things

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/12/2007 11:24:24 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
alisquid@... writes:

And don't force anything on them. Remember that the kids choices are
what unschooling is about. Or at least I think so.


Oh, I totally agree. I think I should rephrase that: How can I help the 2 to
see that this is a viable option? Not only viable, but a good, really good
option to school?

I'm thinking to just let things happen. I read some of the other replies,
and I wouldn't DREAM of forcing either of them, no matter how dreadful I think
the conventional way of education is (here). But I can and will show how
interesting, fun and exciting it can be to go this route :)

Thanks.
Karen



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/12/2007 11:26:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

If you have an interesting thing to do each and every day, you might
actually BE more stimulating/exciting than school. BE that stimulating
and exciting!!!
Yes, I agree. I will continue to try to do so.



And again---access to other unschooled teens is the best way---Live and
Learn in September! <wink wink> <nudge nudge>
I would LOVE to go, but not sure I can (afford, time, location). I must say
that the kids feel that I am too much of a hippie, lol, and they don't want a
thing to do with THAT kinda stuff...Ugh, ugh...They are very concerned with
fitting in - the older one, James (17), is very aware of how he is still not
comfortable enough to even drive my van (a minivan) to summer school. He
admitted it, he is aware of it...so maybe if he HATES the summer school class he
has decided to try and go to. So maybe after this summer, he'll fall into
something different. He just simply doesn't trust himself. At all. Not with that
kind of stuff. Same with Grace (15). They both don't think of themselves as
smart (they are, very!) or capable (they are, of course!) of having "book
smarts."

Oh...One day, I hope they see what I see. I hope at least a glimpse comes to
them.

So...I will back off verbally, and do more by showing :) Leave the book out
and about and...yeah, well, there ya go, lol!

Karen...The Rambler ;)





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[email protected]

In a message dated 6/13/2007 8:45:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:

Two responses come to mind, and the second might strike people as
manipulative. But school is manipulative, so you can decide what you
think...

First, you can't make them want something. You MIGHT be able to make them
do
it (and at 17 and 15, that seems unlikely) but you can't make them like it.
And at 17, if he's been traditionally schooled all along and NOT hated it,
your son may figure he may as well finish up. But you can let him know he
has a
choice, which is cool. Your daughter, a bit younger, seems a more likely
prospect.
That's the odd thing - he did HATE it. I mean HATE it...we have tried
various things this past school year and he is sooooo hesitant and untrusting of
unschooling. Too "hippie" for him, as am I a lot of the time ;) Grace loves the
social stuff from school - I see my "job" as showing them that social
interaction doesn't really only come from school..in fact, Grace's best friend she
met because they lived in the same neighborhood, not because they went to the
same school, lol...go figure! ;) James has a VERY nice social life - busy
every day with friends, despite not going to conventional school all this year.
He has been at Global Village School - an online, wonderfully supportive
school. But he hasn't liked it - he doesn't consider any of what he has been
doing "normal" and he really just wants to fit in. I hope to help him see that he
can and does fit in with a variety of types of people, in a variety of
settings. I don't think either see their beautiful strengths and qualities that
well yet.



So, my second idea. Bribe 'em. Is there something either or both would LOVE
to do, but school gets in the way? Or something they want? Tell them you'll
make it happen if they'll give unschooling six month's chance. Take them on
an
amazing trip or buy them kayaks, or whatever. Be clear that you KNOW you're
bribing them, and why, and if they say no, accept gracefully and let them
know
you want to support them in ALL their decisions. If they agree, and six
months later, want to go back to school, say thanks, and support them.
I actually like that idea, because they are thinking so conventionally,
perhaps a conventional way to get this moving isn't a bad idea. I can't bribe
them with too much stuff however - I do mean "stuff" like tangible objects, or
high monetary value items - we are pretty much living to the penny as it is.
But I will think on this...a trial sounds good...I also suggested to Grace that
if she is unable to do well enough in conventional high school here with me,
that I'd really like the option to do homeschooling with her - not as a
punishment, but as a way to help her get out of high school and move forward. She
knows that *I* care little about grades - that I care about her spirit and
sense of self first and above all else. We are becoming good friends :)



Unschooling is wonderful, but an even better gift is letting them know that
they have your support even if they make choices different than yours.

Kathryn
Yup, I agree. Thanks, Kathryn. I appreciate the help and advice!
Karen








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[email protected]

In a message dated 6/13/2007 10:59:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
thesackmans@... writes:

--- In [email protected], Kidgie@... wrote:
>How can I help my 2 older teens accept/want unschooling
> compared to the conventional education that they want right now?

*** I am guessing that their conventional ed is over for the summer?
Why not unschool right now to try it out. Discuss with them what
they would like to do etc. Then, after the summer, then can decide
whether to go back to school or not. And make sure to tell them that
if they do decide to go back to school, they can leave it again at
anytime. And reassure them that they are not giving up or failing!
Well, sort of. Grace was in conventional hs this past year at her dad's
house, and is taking a summer school class because she failed math. James has
been doing, sorta, lol, an online high school called Global Village, which *I*
love (but it's costing me too much right now, even though they are a good price
I feel) due to it's unschooly feel and open program, but HE doesn't feel
normal. He just wants to be "normal." (his word, not mine) and he is also taking
a summer school class. Maybe they'll both hate it wildly and decide to stay
home next year... ;)



If they go to school, continue to do fun things with them even during
school hours - like say, pick them up early and head to the beach
together or whatever. And YOU can stop worrying about grades,
homework, attendance etc.
Never did. Was accused of being uncaring and not involved and even of being
a bad parent - by them AND other family members (on their dad's side). But
yes, the fun things - yes, yes! Good point to add them into it all. Sometimes I
can't see the forest for the trees, lol...

Another option, if they don't want to give
up school entirely, is to just take the classes of their choosing and
leave the rest. I know several homeschooled kids that do this.
I like that too, though I can only imagine the fun conversations with the
local high school...(I went there, I think I am holding a grudge, lol)




Whatever they choose next year, you can continue to live your life and
lead your family in an unschooling direction. Read Grace Llewellyn's
"Guerrilla Learning" so that if they do choose school, you can take it
not so seriously. Focus on having great relationships with them and
listening to them. Like someone else said, they will choose whatever
they feel is better choice for them, so if they are still choosing
school, you may have to do some deep thinking and talking to them
about why.
Yes, and I will get that book, too. I love her writing and her expression of
her ideas.

My own teen was very reluctant to leave school because he
thought homeschoolers were losers and he didn't want to be a loser.

THAT is it! YES!!! That is IT, 100%. They both are stuck in that horribly
wrong impression. So much so, that I couldn't get them to attend a conference or
any outings or anything...unless I bribed them, lol...which I might do! But
yes, that is indeed the crux of the matter. And since it's totally untrue,
but hard to show them...how do I show them that? And what does your son think
now? How old is he? Does he live near me, lol..? Might he be willing to share
with me his change in perspective?

Gee, thanks so much for that. It may sound silly, but even though they said
those very words, I couldn't keep them in my head when discussing this with
all of you.

This is REALLY helping all. The whole group is, actually...

Happily,
Karen



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[email protected]

In a message dated 6/13/2007 4:37:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
wisdom1133@... writes:

At 15 and 17 I would ask why you want them out of school and why they
want to stay in. At those ages it is scary being told that you can
basically drop out suddenly they may want to stay in. Are there issues
with school performance? other teens? It may be easier to answer you
if we knew those things


yes, both have done "poorly" in school, both show signs of dyslexia and
james, now 17, was tested at his elementary school and was diagnosed with
"auditory processing disorder." he also has failed so many classes, that credit-wise
speaking, he is a sophomore at best, when time-wise, he is to be a senior
next fall. other teens, i think not. james has a good and active social life
and grace is rather social too, though she has been at her very conventional
dad's house this past year, so my familiarity with her social stuff is pretty
nil. she did however, just last weekend, compliment me on my parenting. she
says my trust in her allows her to trust me. i'm hoping she can begin to trust
herself also.



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