Rachel

I would like some advice on what to do (or not to do) about
something Sophia(5) did today that I found, well, mean. We were at
the local Rec Center and she was in the wading pool, she had made
friends with a girl and *ditched* me in the hydro-pool to go with this
girl. I thought, wow, this is great because she does not usually play
with anyone but me. There was a boy, maybe 3 or 4 who was also in the
wading pool and his mom was sitting on the pool deck pretty close to
him. He was not bothering Sophia or even aware really that she was
there and went about his business. I watched Sophia look at his mom
and wait until the mom was not looking at the boy then splashed him in
the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what bothered me
was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if the boys
mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash and Sophia
didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.

Any thoughts??

Peace and Joy,
Rachel

Rachel

Sorry!! I thought I was on AlwaysUnschooled. I'll go put this post
over there. <BWG>

Rachel

--- In [email protected], "Rachel" <radle12000@...> wrote:
>
> I would like some advice on what to do (or not to do) about
> something Sophia(5) did today that I found, well, mean. We were at
> the local Rec Center and she was in the wading pool, she had made
> friends with a girl and *ditched* me in the hydro-pool to go with this
> girl. I thought, wow, this is great because she does not usually play
> with anyone but me. There was a boy, maybe 3 or 4 who was also in the
> wading pool and his mom was sitting on the pool deck pretty close to
> him. He was not bothering Sophia or even aware really that she was
> there and went about his business. I watched Sophia look at his mom
> and wait until the mom was not looking at the boy then splashed him in
> the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what bothered me
> was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if the boys
> mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash and Sophia
> didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.
>
> Any thoughts??
>
> Peace and Joy,
> Rachel
>

Julie

I watched Sophia look at his mom and wait until the mom was not
looking at the boy then splashed him in
> the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what bothered me
> was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if the boys
> mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash and
Sophia
> didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.
>
>

Being that she is 5 yrs old perhaps the "why" is that she wanted to
see what would happen if she splashed this child or what kind of a
reaction she would get. Was it a "mean" look or could it have been
a "ha ha lets see what happens when I ...." look. I read a quote
that 90% of children will look at an adult right before
they "misbehave". Seems like she knew it was not the nicest thing to
do since she was waiting until his mother was busy to splash the
child but she still could have been trying to see what would happen
when you splash someone you are not playing with. Since she did not
get a big reaction she did not even bother a 2nd time.

just my thoughts- Julie

Rachel

--- In [email protected], "Julie" <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I watched Sophia look at his mom and wait until the mom was not
> looking at the boy then splashed him in
> > the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what bothered me
> > was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if the boys
> > mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash and
> Sophia
> > didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.
> >
> >
>
> Being that she is 5 yrs old perhaps the "why" is that she wanted to
> see what would happen if she splashed this child or what kind of a
> reaction she would get. Was it a "mean" look or could it have been
> a "ha ha lets see what happens when I ...." look. I read a quote
> that 90% of children will look at an adult right before
> they "misbehave". Seems like she knew it was not the nicest thing to
> do since she was waiting until his mother was busy to splash the
> child but she still could have been trying to see what would happen
> when you splash someone you are not playing with. Since she did not
> get a big reaction she did not even bother a 2nd time.
>
> just my thoughts- Julie
>

Yep, I think you're right. I am still deschooling myself and have
those knee jerk reactions when *I* perceive "bad" or "mean" behavior.

Thanks!

Peace and Joy,
Rachel

Lisbeth

i have a hard time w/ when other kids are downright cruel and seem to
single out my dd megh who is 4.5yo. this happened recently w/ 2 kids
from 2 different families at one of my homeschool/unschool groups (i
don't know how they think combining homeschoolers w/ unschoolers is
somehow like-minded...it is but it isn't ya know...). i was apalled
at how my dd and her friend who is 5 were picked on...they were
peacefully playing. some of my friends from that group tell me to
have tolerance for the kids as they may have been having a bad day or
a hard time at home or whatever but still...it makes me not want to
be around these families if this is how rude their kids are.

now as far as kids bickering sometimes, i am alright w/ that...that
is a given. like w/ your dd...although i do notice that w/ some of
meghans' friends some are just always so mean after a while to
her...either totally shut off from her after a while, or are real
rude and selfish w/ megh after a while...i'm considering not having
megh and this girl get together too much anymore cuz i'm not liking
this girls' attitude. she is schooled (not hs'd or us'd)...going into
kindergarten in the fall...been to preschool all year...her best
little girlfriend seems like a snobby little 'princess' mainstream
type. ish!

but these 2 kids i was telling you about(ages 4 or so and 7) were
downright bullying. i don't care what their reason. they walked up
to megh and her friend and let them have it. it was outrageous to
me. the 4 yo boy walked up and kicked their pile of sand over and
then informed them that they cannot put sand on the sidewalk.....and
when the 7 yo girl came up to them she insisted they give her the ONE
and ONLY chalk duster they had for the chalk crayons HER family
brought to share with EVERYONE. she was so rude. demanding it...said
MY family brought it...give it to me. WOW. i just sat back
astonished at these 2 incidents.

megh bickers w/ one of her little friends who is 5 but they always
make up. he even will hit sometimes (and she will hit him back) but
they make up. i am not sure what to make of this relationship yet
but that he has a mama who is way too hard on him. so he lashes out
like she does so to speak in giving him rough handling and time
outs...etc. it is hard being w/ mainstreamers! actually that family
is not a mainstream one, they are hs'ers. much more structured ones.
strict at home. ie. the mama who is my friend asks me the dumbest
questions challenging why i'd pick a midwife over an OB and why i'd
even do a VBAC considering the "dangers"...all hs'ers are NOT created
equal.
lis

--- In [email protected], "Rachel" <radle12000@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Julie" <wisdom1133@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I watched Sophia look at his mom and wait until the mom was not
> > looking at the boy then splashed him in
> > > the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what
bothered me
> > > was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if the
boys
> > > mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash and
> > Sophia
> > > didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Being that she is 5 yrs old perhaps the "why" is that she wanted
to
> > see what would happen if she splashed this child or what kind of
a
> > reaction she would get. Was it a "mean" look or could it have
been
> > a "ha ha lets see what happens when I ...." look. I read a quote
> > that 90% of children will look at an adult right before
> > they "misbehave". Seems like she knew it was not the nicest thing
to
> > do since she was waiting until his mother was busy to splash the
> > child but she still could have been trying to see what would
happen
> > when you splash someone you are not playing with. Since she did
not
> > get a big reaction she did not even bother a 2nd time.
> >
> > just my thoughts- Julie
> >
>
> Yep, I think you're right. I am still deschooling myself and have
> those knee jerk reactions when *I* perceive "bad" or "mean"
behavior.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace and Joy,
> Rachel
>

kristenhendricks55

"her best
little girlfriend seems like a snobby little 'princess' mainstream
type. ish!"

********

And she's, how old, four you said? How do you teach your kids to
accept others and then call a little toddler a snobby princess??

You probably wouldn't like my 3 year old then... she's a
total "princess" and can be a little snobby at times. But thats
her... and I love her just the same.

I hope nobody else would see her and put judgement on her like you
did with that girl. Sad...




--- In [email protected], "Lisbeth"
<tomeghandmama@...> wrote:
>
> i have a hard time w/ when other kids are downright cruel and seem
to
> single out my dd megh who is 4.5yo. this happened recently w/ 2
kids
> from 2 different families at one of my homeschool/unschool groups
(i
> don't know how they think combining homeschoolers w/ unschoolers is
> somehow like-minded...it is but it isn't ya know...). i was apalled
> at how my dd and her friend who is 5 were picked on...they were
> peacefully playing. some of my friends from that group tell me to
> have tolerance for the kids as they may have been having a bad day
or
> a hard time at home or whatever but still...it makes me not want to
> be around these families if this is how rude their kids are.
>
> now as far as kids bickering sometimes, i am alright w/ that...that
> is a given. like w/ your dd...although i do notice that w/ some of
> meghans' friends some are just always so mean after a while to
> her...either totally shut off from her after a while, or are real
> rude and selfish w/ megh after a while...i'm considering not having
> megh and this girl get together too much anymore cuz i'm not liking
> this girls' attitude. she is schooled (not hs'd or us'd)...going
into
> kindergarten in the fall...been to preschool all year...her best
> little girlfriend seems like a snobby little 'princess' mainstream
> type. ish!
>
> but these 2 kids i was telling you about(ages 4 or so and 7) were
> downright bullying. i don't care what their reason. they walked up
> to megh and her friend and let them have it. it was outrageous to
> me. the 4 yo boy walked up and kicked their pile of sand over and
> then informed them that they cannot put sand on the
sidewalk.....and
> when the 7 yo girl came up to them she insisted they give her the
ONE
> and ONLY chalk duster they had for the chalk crayons HER family
> brought to share with EVERYONE. she was so rude. demanding
it...said
> MY family brought it...give it to me. WOW. i just sat back
> astonished at these 2 incidents.
>
> megh bickers w/ one of her little friends who is 5 but they always
> make up. he even will hit sometimes (and she will hit him back) but
> they make up. i am not sure what to make of this relationship yet
> but that he has a mama who is way too hard on him. so he lashes out
> like she does so to speak in giving him rough handling and time
> outs...etc. it is hard being w/ mainstreamers! actually that
family
> is not a mainstream one, they are hs'ers. much more structured
ones.
> strict at home. ie. the mama who is my friend asks me the dumbest
> questions challenging why i'd pick a midwife over an OB and why i'd
> even do a VBAC considering the "dangers"...all hs'ers are NOT
created
> equal.
> lis
>
> --- In [email protected], "Rachel" <radle12000@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "Julie" <wisdom1133@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I watched Sophia look at his mom and wait until the mom was not
> > > looking at the boy then splashed him in
> > > > the face. The splash itself is not a big deal but what
> bothered me
> > > > was the look on Sophia's face(mean) and her scoping out if
the
> boys
> > > > mom was looking. The boy didn't seem bothered by the splash
and
> > > Sophia
> > > > didn't do it again so I decided not to say anything.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Being that she is 5 yrs old perhaps the "why" is that she
wanted
> to
> > > see what would happen if she splashed this child or what kind
of
> a
> > > reaction she would get. Was it a "mean" look or could it have
> been
> > > a "ha ha lets see what happens when I ...." look. I read a
quote
> > > that 90% of children will look at an adult right before
> > > they "misbehave". Seems like she knew it was not the nicest
thing
> to
> > > do since she was waiting until his mother was busy to splash
the
> > > child but she still could have been trying to see what would
> happen
> > > when you splash someone you are not playing with. Since she did
> not
> > > get a big reaction she did not even bother a 2nd time.
> > >
> > > just my thoughts- Julie
> > >
> >
> > Yep, I think you're right. I am still deschooling myself and have
> > those knee jerk reactions when *I* perceive "bad" or "mean"
> behavior.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Peace and Joy,
> > Rachel
> >
>

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Lisbeth"
<tomeghandmama@...> wrote:
>> i have a hard time w/ when other kids are downright cruel and
seem to
> single out my dd megh who is 4.5yo.

While I do see my kids having more communication and problem-solving
skills than their schooled peers I have also found it important to
look at other children with the same unschooling eyes I use to view
my own kids. Kids do the best they can with what they have available
in terms of skills, knowledge and support. We can't know what kinds
of skills and knowledge other children have available to them, but
we have the potential to *be* part of that support. When we don't
feel up to being part of their support we can recongnize the ways in
which they are not being supported.

> some of my friends from that group tell me to
> have tolerance for the kids as they may have been having a bad day
or
> a hard time at home or whatever but still...it makes me not want
to
> be around these families if this is how rude their kids are.

What does your dd want? Is she upset by the interactions and wants
to avoid these kids? Morgan is sometimes upset in the moment but
cools down quickly and wants to play more. Other times she seems to
get along fine with other kids (and adults) but later will tell me
she doesn't want to see person X for awhile.

> meghans' friends some are just always so mean after a while to
> her...either totally shut off from her after a while, or are real
> rude and selfish w/ megh after a while

Okay, you used the expression "after a while" three times and I'm
seeing that as a big Aha! So things start off fine? Maybe the other
kids are getting tired or in need of a snack or break. That's
something you can help out with. You can schedule shorter visits.
You can suggest or offer snacks. You can do something with Megh to
give the other kids a break. You can spend more time with the
kids "after a while" to help with the communication and problem
solving.

> the 4 yo boy walked up and kicked their pile of sand over and
> then informed them that they cannot put sand on the sidewalk.....

I'm guessing you were too far away to say anything, but if these
sorts of interactions are common in this group, that's a good
indicator that you need to be spending more time closer to your dd
so that you *can* help out. If you were right there, did you work
toward reassuring the little guy that it was okay and y'all would
clean up when you were done? Often that's all a young child needs in
that sort of situation - adult reassurance that "its okay" to break
whatever rule he's stressing over. No sand on the sidewalk, in this
case.

> when the 7 yo girl came up to them she insisted they give her the
ONE
> and ONLY chalk duster they had for the chalk crayons HER family
> brought to share with EVERYONE.

So the parents decided to share the kids' toys and one of the kids
wasn't happy about that? Poor girl. That sort of thing always makes
me really sad. I hope you validated her desire to reclaim her own
things and helped your dd find something else to do.

>it is hard being w/ mainstreamers!

It is. The hardest part for me is that conventional parenting
assumptions creep into my own thinking - all those shouldn'ts and
musts and don'ts - not really for my *own* kids, but those others.
Its much more helpful to look at other kids with compassion and try
to figure out what I can do to help smooth things over. Its
challenging and I don't always "get it right" in the moment - but I
do try to look at the other povs afterwards.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Julie

--- In [email protected], "Lisbeth"
<tomeghandmama@...> wrote:
>
> i have a hard time w/ when other kids are downright cruel and seem
to
> single out my dd megh who is 4.5yo. this happened recently w/ 2
kids
> from 2 different families at one of my homeschool/unschool groups (i
> don't know how they think combining homeschoolers w/ unschoolers is
> somehow like-minded...it is but it isn't ya know...). i was apalled
> at how my dd and her friend who is 5 were picked on...they were
> peacefully playing. some of my friends from that group tell me to
> have tolerance for the kids as they may have been having a bad day
or
> a hard time at home or whatever but still...


I found myself thinking about your post off and on last night and
could not put my finger on what was bothering me about it- then it hit
me as I lay in bed thinking.

You said that your kids were picked on by other kids and that this
made you upset. When I take my kids anywhere regardless of if we know
the kids or not I ALWAYS make sure I am near my girls (ages 4 and 2)
for 2 reasons one is for their safety and two so I can see what is
happening with other kids.

If I saw any children picking on my kids I would go and stand next to
them and talk to them about their play- if children were being mean or
cruel I would talk to that child and say something like "lets work it
out- you all get a turn" or "did you build that sand castle? was it
yours to knock down? did you ask them if you could knock down their
tower?

When I am around a lot of children and I am "in charge" they will
often come and tell me when someone did something to them and I will
say to them tell that person what you thought or how you felt. It is
amazing to watch small children (3-4 years) go back and say "do not
hit me or I did not like you pulling my hair."

All this being said I hear your frustration when kids disrupt your
kids when playing by themselves but I think we need to discuss how to
handle it. Sometimes it is okay to yell at other kids to leave you
alone.

Sometimes kids are not bothered by other kids invading their play
space and others are. I tell my girls that they have the choice. Just
some thoughts to consider.

Lisa O

Hi, I'm new here, and would like to respond because I've recently
dealt with a similar situation with my 4.5 yo son.
I agree we should monitor our children's playtime with each other,
and even instruct them on how to defend themselves to empower them in
moments where they are being singled out by bullies. I also feel that
the other parents should be JUST as involved in watching out for YOUR
child. You would not let your child mistreat another child, and turn
a blind eye, and neither should they. If all else fails, and the
learning experience has passed with little results, I say take the
child out of the situation entirely.
As for me, I addressed the problem repeatedly with my friend over a
2 year period, pulling away and limiting playdates. When I finally
saw that she saw nothing wrong with her son's bully behaviors,
actually citing Ryan's passivity as reason for her son's
aggressiveness, I broke ties with her (last Monday). Not an easy
choice for me, as it took me 2 years to reach this point., But I want
to teach my children they deserve to be with people who treasure
them, and they should feel free to walk away from people who mistreat
them. I only wish I had to nerve to do it earlier (I am one to give
benefit of the doubt long after someone deserves it.)



In [email protected], "Julie" <wisdom1133@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "Lisbeth"
> <tomeghandmama@> wrote:
> >
> > i have a hard time w/ when other kids are downright cruel and
seem
> to
> > single out my dd megh who is 4.5yo. this happened recently w/ 2
> kids
> > from 2 different families at one of my homeschool/unschool groups
(i
> > don't know how they think combining homeschoolers w/ unschoolers
is
> > somehow like-minded...it is but it isn't ya know...). i was
apalled
> > at how my dd and her friend who is 5 were picked on...they were
> > peacefully playing. some of my friends from that group tell me to
> > have tolerance for the kids as they may have been having a bad
day
> or
> > a hard time at home or whatever but still...
>
>
> I found myself thinking about your post off and on last night and
> could not put my finger on what was bothering me about it- then it
hit
> me as I lay in bed thinking.
>
> You said that your kids were picked on by other kids and that this
> made you upset. When I take my kids anywhere regardless of if we
know
> the kids or not I ALWAYS make sure I am near my girls (ages 4 and
2)
> for 2 reasons one is for their safety and two so I can see what is
> happening with other kids.
>
> If I saw any children picking on my kids I would go and stand next
to
> them and talk to them about their play- if children were being mean
or
> cruel I would talk to that child and say something like "lets work
it
> out- you all get a turn" or "did you build that sand castle? was it
> yours to knock down? did you ask them if you could knock down their
> tower?
>
> When I am around a lot of children and I am "in charge" they will
> often come and tell me when someone did something to them and I
will
> say to them tell that person what you thought or how you felt. It
is
> amazing to watch small children (3-4 years) go back and say "do not
> hit me or I did not like you pulling my hair."
>
> All this being said I hear your frustration when kids disrupt your
> kids when playing by themselves but I think we need to discuss how
to
> handle it. Sometimes it is okay to yell at other kids to leave you
> alone.
>
> Sometimes kids are not bothered by other kids invading their play
> space and others are. I tell my girls that they have the choice.
Just
> some thoughts to consider.
>