Lorrie
Schuyler
I'm having a really hard time reading your responses. It would help if you
delineated somehow--a line, a series of asterisks, or even just a space--
between your writing and the writing you are responding to.
Every one of your posts is defending two things as far as I can interpret.
The first is that this girl was an individual situation from which no
inferences can be drawn. And to some extent that it was the evilness of the
girl's character that resulted in both her sneaking behind her parents'
backs to continue her relationship and in her boyfriend's subsequent
murdering of her parents. And while no one is saying that the murder of her
parents is justified by their decisions about her dating at the age of 13,
it is being said that in an open, trusting home she may not have felt that
she was being asked to choose between her family and her young man.
The second thing that you seem to be repeating ad nauseum is that anyone who
loves their children can only choose to restrict their dating at a young
age. For me I can only argue from the hypothetical, my two children aren't
interested in dating, and are only 7 and 10 so it isn't something that is
likely to come up for a couple of years at least.
I love my children. I overflow with love for my children. When I look at
them, play with them, brush their hair, watch them playing, listen to them,
fix them ice cream cones, cuddle them, I love them. It is a huge part of
what defines me. I know things about them that I know my parents didn't know
about me. And not because I pry or eavesdrop or follow them around or get
someone else to report back to me, but because they tell me. They share who
they are and what they are interested in with me because I'm really unlikely
to make fun of them and their interests, and because I am more than likely
to take part in their interests with them, and have been known to help
facilitate those interests for them. I would never choose to shut down those
doors of communication by denying them something that interested them as
much as being with a person that they cared for, no matter their age. I
wouldn't be over-the-moon about Linnaea at 14 dating an 18 year old, just as
an idea. But I would trust that she had reasons for finding this 18 year old
appealing and I would hope that she would be comfortable with letting us get
to know him.
It seems to me that if it had been a more open environment between the
parents and their daughter, there would have been more time for her to
really discover if it was this boy she wanted to be with, instead of the
little time there was of the excitement and adrenaline that comes from
sneaking around. I mean, what a brilliant way to make dating exciting, boost
the normal hormonal response with the rush of the adrenal system! I'm not
saying that he wouldn't have killed them anyhow, but maybe she would have
chosen to leave him if they'd trusted her and supported her in the choices
she made. Maybe she would have been able to judge him more clearly if her
vision wasn't blurred by her parents disapproval.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
delineated somehow--a line, a series of asterisks, or even just a space--
between your writing and the writing you are responding to.
Every one of your posts is defending two things as far as I can interpret.
The first is that this girl was an individual situation from which no
inferences can be drawn. And to some extent that it was the evilness of the
girl's character that resulted in both her sneaking behind her parents'
backs to continue her relationship and in her boyfriend's subsequent
murdering of her parents. And while no one is saying that the murder of her
parents is justified by their decisions about her dating at the age of 13,
it is being said that in an open, trusting home she may not have felt that
she was being asked to choose between her family and her young man.
The second thing that you seem to be repeating ad nauseum is that anyone who
loves their children can only choose to restrict their dating at a young
age. For me I can only argue from the hypothetical, my two children aren't
interested in dating, and are only 7 and 10 so it isn't something that is
likely to come up for a couple of years at least.
I love my children. I overflow with love for my children. When I look at
them, play with them, brush their hair, watch them playing, listen to them,
fix them ice cream cones, cuddle them, I love them. It is a huge part of
what defines me. I know things about them that I know my parents didn't know
about me. And not because I pry or eavesdrop or follow them around or get
someone else to report back to me, but because they tell me. They share who
they are and what they are interested in with me because I'm really unlikely
to make fun of them and their interests, and because I am more than likely
to take part in their interests with them, and have been known to help
facilitate those interests for them. I would never choose to shut down those
doors of communication by denying them something that interested them as
much as being with a person that they cared for, no matter their age. I
wouldn't be over-the-moon about Linnaea at 14 dating an 18 year old, just as
an idea. But I would trust that she had reasons for finding this 18 year old
appealing and I would hope that she would be comfortable with letting us get
to know him.
It seems to me that if it had been a more open environment between the
parents and their daughter, there would have been more time for her to
really discover if it was this boy she wanted to be with, instead of the
little time there was of the excitement and adrenaline that comes from
sneaking around. I mean, what a brilliant way to make dating exciting, boost
the normal hormonal response with the rush of the adrenal system! I'm not
saying that he wouldn't have killed them anyhow, but maybe she would have
chosen to leave him if they'd trusted her and supported her in the choices
she made. Maybe she would have been able to judge him more clearly if her
vision wasn't blurred by her parents disapproval.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lorrie" <iamhisservant4ever@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:11 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] sylvia
> ****
> Those kids who 'do what they want' no matter what you try to teach them --
> first, why would they want to do things that are harmful to them? What
> unmet need do they have? When a kid doesn't care about their own safety,
> and doesn't listen to his parents' concerns, that's a kid who doesn't feel
> his parents understand him, where he is right in that moment.
> Probably because we live in a "feel good" generation, where all alot of
> people want is to feel good regardless of the consequences or if what they
> are doing is harmful or not. Some kids don't want to listen to their
> parents concerns, even if they have understanding parents. Are you telling
> me you have never seen this??
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> TV dinner still cooling?
> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Ren Allen
~~
It seems to me that if it had been a more open environment between the
parents and their daughter, there would have been more time for her to
really discover if it was this boy she wanted to be with, instead of the
little time there was of the excitement and adrenaline that comes from
sneaking around.~~
Exactly!
Back in medieval times, girls that age were being married off in some
societies. So "proper" age for sex and dating are hugely deteremined
by societal factors which have NOTHING to do with the individuals
readiness.
I believe that in an open, trusting home, kids often feel LESS
inclined to have sex young. I know so many unschooled teens (several
which are sexually active and they seem to make their choices about
sex with so much more thought and pondering. I certainly didn't think
much about anything when I had sex at 16. It wasn't a true choice!
My 17 year old puts a lot of thought and care into his choices. It's
really cool to see.
And unschooled kids are FAR from "left to figure it out themselves"
just because we aren't trying to control their choices. In a mindful
family, choices are discussed, weighed, every members needs considered
and creative adaptations made constantly.
When both of my kids want the front seat in the van and we sit in the
driveway, my input is "let's figure out something that works for
everyone". Yeah, sometimes one person has to wait, but its
interesting to hear their negotiations. "I know, I'll sit in back now
but I get it on the way home ok?" or "you got to sit here yesterday,
so can I have it first today?"
Sure, sitting in the front seat is a small thing, but if families can
negotiate and problem solve while putting everyone's needs as
priority, THEN there is a pattern set for solving bigger issues. Kids
trust that the adults care about their needs.
I would assume that a 13 year old girl truly wanting sex would find a
way to have it whether the parents forbid it or not(oh yeah, thats
already been proven). I would assume she had some underlying need and
it would be my job to figure out what that need was. I would also
assume that her relationship with the 18 year old was her relationship
and I would not have a right to terminate that (oh yeah, that doesn't
work either...interesting)
I might invite that person over to our house a lot if I had concerns
about his behavior (which would have NOTHING to do with his age). I
don't intend to be a wall between my children and their lives. They
will make their own choices with or without me anyway, I have much
more influence as a connected, aware parent that they TRUST.
But we're talking about a family that was not unschooling. We're
talking about a unique and bizarre situation that probably nobody
truly understands (including people that knew them) and that isn't
going to help anyone understand unschooling or gentle parenting. So
lets move on. PLEASE.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
It seems to me that if it had been a more open environment between the
parents and their daughter, there would have been more time for her to
really discover if it was this boy she wanted to be with, instead of the
little time there was of the excitement and adrenaline that comes from
sneaking around.~~
Exactly!
Back in medieval times, girls that age were being married off in some
societies. So "proper" age for sex and dating are hugely deteremined
by societal factors which have NOTHING to do with the individuals
readiness.
I believe that in an open, trusting home, kids often feel LESS
inclined to have sex young. I know so many unschooled teens (several
which are sexually active and they seem to make their choices about
sex with so much more thought and pondering. I certainly didn't think
much about anything when I had sex at 16. It wasn't a true choice!
My 17 year old puts a lot of thought and care into his choices. It's
really cool to see.
And unschooled kids are FAR from "left to figure it out themselves"
just because we aren't trying to control their choices. In a mindful
family, choices are discussed, weighed, every members needs considered
and creative adaptations made constantly.
When both of my kids want the front seat in the van and we sit in the
driveway, my input is "let's figure out something that works for
everyone". Yeah, sometimes one person has to wait, but its
interesting to hear their negotiations. "I know, I'll sit in back now
but I get it on the way home ok?" or "you got to sit here yesterday,
so can I have it first today?"
Sure, sitting in the front seat is a small thing, but if families can
negotiate and problem solve while putting everyone's needs as
priority, THEN there is a pattern set for solving bigger issues. Kids
trust that the adults care about their needs.
I would assume that a 13 year old girl truly wanting sex would find a
way to have it whether the parents forbid it or not(oh yeah, thats
already been proven). I would assume she had some underlying need and
it would be my job to figure out what that need was. I would also
assume that her relationship with the 18 year old was her relationship
and I would not have a right to terminate that (oh yeah, that doesn't
work either...interesting)
I might invite that person over to our house a lot if I had concerns
about his behavior (which would have NOTHING to do with his age). I
don't intend to be a wall between my children and their lives. They
will make their own choices with or without me anyway, I have much
more influence as a connected, aware parent that they TRUST.
But we're talking about a family that was not unschooling. We're
talking about a unique and bizarre situation that probably nobody
truly understands (including people that knew them) and that isn't
going to help anyone understand unschooling or gentle parenting. So
lets move on. PLEASE.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
iamhisservant4ever
Sorry if you can't read my responses. They seem fine on my computer.
I am not "defending" anything. There is nothing to interpret from my
posts. I am very clear in what I am saying and how I feel.
And I never said that the evilness of this girls character led to her
parents murder. Again another interpretation of what I was saying
here. I am sure that you all know the same thign that was printed in
the paper and on teh news, and that was that he murdered them because
he was told he could not see her any longer. The fact that he brought
along guns has nothing to do with the possibility that maybe he was
crazy and planned on carrying this out anyway?? The fact that he and
2 other teens were "practicing" home invasions shortly before all of
this happened, I am guessing also had nothing to do with his
character. In the end it seems that everyone here is defending
this "poor" girl and her boyfriend, and blaming it all on her dead
parents for caring about her.
Maybe there are people on here that don't even know the facts behind
this case. Allow me to go over the facts again, with the help of one
of the articles;
According to Ludwig, Borden had spent the night at his house, after
which he had dropped her off at home around 5:30 am.
***Outstanding behavior that this 14 year old exemplified***
Ludwig waited for a text message from Borden, letting him know that
she had successfully made it back without incident, presumably by
sneaking into the house undetected. However, the text message never
came. After several attempts to reach Borden, Ludwig finally
contacted her at around 6:15 am. Borden informed him that she had
gotten caught and asked him to come over so her parents could talk to
him. At this point, Ludwig grabbed two guns and a hunting knife and
traveled to the Bordens' house
***hmm.....why all the weapons??***
arriving around 7 am. Ludwig and Michael Borden argued for about 45
minutes, at which time Michael Borden allegedly stated that Ludwig
was no longer allowed to see his daughter. Ludwig then allegedly shot
Michael Borden in the back and proceeded to shoot Cathryn Borden who
was sitting in the living room. Ludwig left the scene and then
returned in hopes to find Kara, who had run out of the house after
the first shooting in a frenzy. It was not long before Kara ran
towards his vehicle and according to Ludwig, asked him to drive as
far west as possible so they could marry and start a new life
together.
***so after being freed from her horrible parents, she willingly left
with their murderer and said she wanted to get married and start a
new life. It sounds to me like she was the one doing the manipulating
here. But that is only my opinion, not the truth, not the real facts.
The truth and facts behind all this are not for me to judge, and no
one knows what really went on, except the actual people involved in
the murder.***
I am not "defending" anything. There is nothing to interpret from my
posts. I am very clear in what I am saying and how I feel.
And I never said that the evilness of this girls character led to her
parents murder. Again another interpretation of what I was saying
here. I am sure that you all know the same thign that was printed in
the paper and on teh news, and that was that he murdered them because
he was told he could not see her any longer. The fact that he brought
along guns has nothing to do with the possibility that maybe he was
crazy and planned on carrying this out anyway?? The fact that he and
2 other teens were "practicing" home invasions shortly before all of
this happened, I am guessing also had nothing to do with his
character. In the end it seems that everyone here is defending
this "poor" girl and her boyfriend, and blaming it all on her dead
parents for caring about her.
Maybe there are people on here that don't even know the facts behind
this case. Allow me to go over the facts again, with the help of one
of the articles;
According to Ludwig, Borden had spent the night at his house, after
which he had dropped her off at home around 5:30 am.
***Outstanding behavior that this 14 year old exemplified***
Ludwig waited for a text message from Borden, letting him know that
she had successfully made it back without incident, presumably by
sneaking into the house undetected. However, the text message never
came. After several attempts to reach Borden, Ludwig finally
contacted her at around 6:15 am. Borden informed him that she had
gotten caught and asked him to come over so her parents could talk to
him. At this point, Ludwig grabbed two guns and a hunting knife and
traveled to the Bordens' house
***hmm.....why all the weapons??***
arriving around 7 am. Ludwig and Michael Borden argued for about 45
minutes, at which time Michael Borden allegedly stated that Ludwig
was no longer allowed to see his daughter. Ludwig then allegedly shot
Michael Borden in the back and proceeded to shoot Cathryn Borden who
was sitting in the living room. Ludwig left the scene and then
returned in hopes to find Kara, who had run out of the house after
the first shooting in a frenzy. It was not long before Kara ran
towards his vehicle and according to Ludwig, asked him to drive as
far west as possible so they could marry and start a new life
together.
***so after being freed from her horrible parents, she willingly left
with their murderer and said she wanted to get married and start a
new life. It sounds to me like she was the one doing the manipulating
here. But that is only my opinion, not the truth, not the real facts.
The truth and facts behind all this are not for me to judge, and no
one knows what really went on, except the actual people involved in
the murder.***
diana jenner
The news stories, unfortunately, won't give any of us insight on how to
unschool our children. It *does* give us a peek into how we'd *not* like our
future relationships with our children to look/feel like.
I know, personally, two unschooled teenage couples whose ages reflect the
same gap as in this tragic story.
I did the tongue-clucking at first, too. Until I began to really pay
attention to how (in my own head and with some trusted RU friends) I was
putting on the Judges Robes in my thinking about these relationships.
So I decided to take off the robes & check it out for my own self. I was
lucky enough to be in ABQ with both couples, at the 2006 Live and Learn
Conference. The first couple, D & A, spend the most of their time together
making cookies with D's family, spending time with D's little sister and her
parents, even being invited along on family outings/trips. A is absolutely
welcome in their home. I understand D's dad did have a conversation with him
about his expectations for how his daughter is to be treated and the
consequences for behaving differently. A is still around :) I spoke with
them openly and honestly about my judgment and my gratitude for being given
an opportunity to (once again!) shift my perspective.
The second couple, JH & JB, I don't know as well so I took this opportunity
to get to know them better and ask them about their relationship. Actually,
before that JH's mother took me aside and told me she had refused her
daughter's request to see JB (with good cause, it was a long trip and a lot
of money) until my dd died and she realized she could very well be denying
her own daughter's last request. She found the money and JH was sent off to
spend some time with JB and his family -- across the country. At the talent
show, JB got up on stage and sang "The Way You Look Tonight" to his girl. It
was obvious to me how much he loves and cherishes JH. I went to her and
said, You are the luckiest girl in the room! and I meant it. I would give
anything to have someone look at, speak of, sing to my child in that same
way; heck, I'd love for someone to do that for ME! It was all I wanted as a
teenager, and here I am right in the same space as these amazing people who
are in healthy relationships not only with one another, also with their
parents (both sets) and with others in their Tribe.
These are parents who love and cherish their kids. Who want the very best
possible for their kids. Their kids want to date someone *wonderful* who
happens to be 3+ years different in age. What can the family do as a *TEAM*
to make it a win/win/win/win/win situation? The two aforementioned families
are my examples for this situation. They represent the mentality and love I
want for my teens (when they get there!), heck for my kids at any age!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't know what it is about me that makes me open to other people's
kids... Mayhap it's my *never grow up* Gemini characteristics or it may just
very well be a symptom of being diana :::vbg::: It's not just teens, though
I like them fine. At Life is Good, I was surrounded by the toddlers-7 year
olds during the day and the teens at night. Nothing against adults, I talk
to them just fine, too :) Kids just seem to *get* unschooling more quickly
than their older schooled counterparts. They live it versus talking about
it. That is very appealing to me.To see it in action.
The news story doesn't give a generalization of how ALL kids will turn out
and it certainly doesn't reflect the plethora of possibilities we have as
unschoolers. I want to head towards the goal of the kind and gentle parents
I know who have enviable relationships with their kids. A totally different
path than outside of Unschooling.
unschool our children. It *does* give us a peek into how we'd *not* like our
future relationships with our children to look/feel like.
I know, personally, two unschooled teenage couples whose ages reflect the
same gap as in this tragic story.
I did the tongue-clucking at first, too. Until I began to really pay
attention to how (in my own head and with some trusted RU friends) I was
putting on the Judges Robes in my thinking about these relationships.
So I decided to take off the robes & check it out for my own self. I was
lucky enough to be in ABQ with both couples, at the 2006 Live and Learn
Conference. The first couple, D & A, spend the most of their time together
making cookies with D's family, spending time with D's little sister and her
parents, even being invited along on family outings/trips. A is absolutely
welcome in their home. I understand D's dad did have a conversation with him
about his expectations for how his daughter is to be treated and the
consequences for behaving differently. A is still around :) I spoke with
them openly and honestly about my judgment and my gratitude for being given
an opportunity to (once again!) shift my perspective.
The second couple, JH & JB, I don't know as well so I took this opportunity
to get to know them better and ask them about their relationship. Actually,
before that JH's mother took me aside and told me she had refused her
daughter's request to see JB (with good cause, it was a long trip and a lot
of money) until my dd died and she realized she could very well be denying
her own daughter's last request. She found the money and JH was sent off to
spend some time with JB and his family -- across the country. At the talent
show, JB got up on stage and sang "The Way You Look Tonight" to his girl. It
was obvious to me how much he loves and cherishes JH. I went to her and
said, You are the luckiest girl in the room! and I meant it. I would give
anything to have someone look at, speak of, sing to my child in that same
way; heck, I'd love for someone to do that for ME! It was all I wanted as a
teenager, and here I am right in the same space as these amazing people who
are in healthy relationships not only with one another, also with their
parents (both sets) and with others in their Tribe.
These are parents who love and cherish their kids. Who want the very best
possible for their kids. Their kids want to date someone *wonderful* who
happens to be 3+ years different in age. What can the family do as a *TEAM*
to make it a win/win/win/win/win situation? The two aforementioned families
are my examples for this situation. They represent the mentality and love I
want for my teens (when they get there!), heck for my kids at any age!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't know what it is about me that makes me open to other people's
kids... Mayhap it's my *never grow up* Gemini characteristics or it may just
very well be a symptom of being diana :::vbg::: It's not just teens, though
I like them fine. At Life is Good, I was surrounded by the toddlers-7 year
olds during the day and the teens at night. Nothing against adults, I talk
to them just fine, too :) Kids just seem to *get* unschooling more quickly
than their older schooled counterparts. They live it versus talking about
it. That is very appealing to me.To see it in action.
The news story doesn't give a generalization of how ALL kids will turn out
and it certainly doesn't reflect the plethora of possibilities we have as
unschoolers. I want to head towards the goal of the kind and gentle parents
I know who have enviable relationships with their kids. A totally different
path than outside of Unschooling.
On 6/8/07, iamhisservant4ever <iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
> I am not "defending" anything. There is nothing to interpret from my
> posts. I am very clear in what I am saying and how I feel.
>
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rue Kream
>>The first couple, D & A, spend the most of their time together makingcookies with D's family, spending time with D's little sister and her
parents, even being invited along on family outings/trips. A is absolutely
welcome in their home.
**D's mom here :o). I got the ok from Dagny and Andrew to write a bit about
them.
Dagny met Andrew at the first Peabody conference when she was almost 12 and
he was 15 1/2. While Dagny developed a major crush on him pretty much the
minute she met him, Andrew had a girlfriend at the time. So they became
friends, hanging out mostly in group situations and talking on the phone/IM
a LOT. Eventually Andrew broke up with his girlfriend. Dagny and Andrew
developed a really great friendship. Then, 16 months ago, whatever magic it
is that happens happened for them. Dagny was 13 1/4, Andrew had just turned
17, and they were in love.
We had our moments of panic at first. I think we'd probably have had those
no matter how old she was the first time she fell in love. She's our baby,
and we don't want her to be hurt or sad. But we weren't going to let those
fears interfere in our relationships with her, or in her relationship with
Andrew. Our focus became, "What can we do to contribute to their having a
healthy relationship?" Anything that would cause them to feel they had to
sneak or lie to us would certainly not contribute to their having a healthy
relationship. Anything that encouraged them to be open with us would.
So, 16 months later: Andrew's part of our family. He has a key to our
house. He stays here 3-4 nights a week. He vacations with us. He
house/dog sits for us. He makes some mean chocolate chip cookies. He's
kind to Dagny when she's grumpy. He's gentle with Rowan. He's thoughtful
and helpful. When my great-nephews come over he's a bit of a baby-hog. His
laugh makes me laugh. We talk about parenting and South Park and cars and
haircuts and learning and toys and cooking. We argue the benefits of using
shortening in cookies. He and Dagny read to each other almost every night.
They jump on the trampoline, wave to strangers driving by, have nerf-gun
wars with Rowan and Jon, wander the aisles of Job Lot, cook, play video
games, sew, and garden.
She's 14. He's 18. So what?
>>I understand D's dad did have a conversation with him about hisexpectations for how his daughter is to be treated and the consequences for
behaving differently. A is still around :)
**Just to clarify - Jon would only have done this jokingly, as anyone who's
met him would probably guess :o). Anyway, Andrew's a 3rd degree blackbelt,
so Jon doesn't stand much of a chance <G>. ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
On Jun 8, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Rue Kream wrote:
mature early are finding this hard to grasp!
Dagny must have been 10 when my daughter, Kat, and I first met her at
the first Live and Learn Conference. Dagny had organized through the
Live and Learn Kids list "Dumbledore's Army" (I believe it was
called.) She organized get togethers during the conference. She had
this amazingly mature social sense. At 10. I had to check several
times to make sure she really was only 10 because she seemed at least
as old as my daughter (13 at the time) if not older ;-) And not that
fake make up and sexy clothes "maturity" young schooled girls affect.
Real social maturity.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that she's mature enough for a
boyfriend at 13.
And yet at 15 (coming up on 16 next month) Kat isn't ready. Not only
not ready, but knows she's not ready because she just isn't
interested and doesn't feel there's anything wrong with that. I
overheard her say to a friend that she didn't intend to date until
she got to college. She's *very* similar to me. I too didn't date
until college but I did feel odd because it seemed "everyone" had a
boyfriend in high school. (My former best friend had a boyfriend in
5th grade. (Former mostly because she matured a lot faster and we
didn't have much in common anymore.)) Kat, on the other hand, knows
she's perfectly normal.
It's why arbitrary ages are meaningless.
It's why knowing our children, developing a relationship that earns
their trust, and being there to help them explore what they've
determined they're ready for is what makes this all work so wonderfully.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Then, 16 months ago, whatever magic itI suspect most who haven't met Dagny or met other girls who socially
> is that happens happened for them. Dagny was 13 1/4, Andrew had
> just turned
> 17, and they were in love.
mature early are finding this hard to grasp!
Dagny must have been 10 when my daughter, Kat, and I first met her at
the first Live and Learn Conference. Dagny had organized through the
Live and Learn Kids list "Dumbledore's Army" (I believe it was
called.) She organized get togethers during the conference. She had
this amazingly mature social sense. At 10. I had to check several
times to make sure she really was only 10 because she seemed at least
as old as my daughter (13 at the time) if not older ;-) And not that
fake make up and sexy clothes "maturity" young schooled girls affect.
Real social maturity.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that she's mature enough for a
boyfriend at 13.
And yet at 15 (coming up on 16 next month) Kat isn't ready. Not only
not ready, but knows she's not ready because she just isn't
interested and doesn't feel there's anything wrong with that. I
overheard her say to a friend that she didn't intend to date until
she got to college. She's *very* similar to me. I too didn't date
until college but I did feel odd because it seemed "everyone" had a
boyfriend in high school. (My former best friend had a boyfriend in
5th grade. (Former mostly because she matured a lot faster and we
didn't have much in common anymore.)) Kat, on the other hand, knows
she's perfectly normal.
It's why arbitrary ages are meaningless.
It's why knowing our children, developing a relationship that earns
their trust, and being there to help them explore what they've
determined they're ready for is what makes this all work so wonderfully.
Joyce
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