why I hate labels especially the label; unschooler
Lorrie
All of the previous posts just confirm my desire not to be labeled an uschooler. I have a problem with any kind of label being associated with me or my family.
Way back when I decided to teach my son at home, I went to an unschoolers meeting in Boston. After talking with the parents there and hearing their philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler. After much trial and error over the years, I realized that the best way for my kids to learn was to let them just do whatever it was that they were interested in. We got the basic math and english out of the way and they did, and still do what they are passionate about.
Though my method for school with my daughter is "unschooling," I will no longer use that term to describe our situation. I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting." I love my kids too much to just let them make decisions that will end up harming them. Yes, I believe in letting kids make mistakes to help them to learn and mature, but never to bring mental or physical harm to themselves. I don't care if you want to call it controlling, manipulating, whatever. I call it being a loving parent concerned for my child's welfare.
I am done with this group and the narrow minded way everyone seems to be when it comes to parenting a child. I also don't like the way so many have judged a family that no one on here even knew. I could understand if you actually saw the behavior you describe in person, but none of you did. You are all going by what you have read or saw on the news. And then making your own assumptions on how she was brought up. I saw the real family, saw the love they had for their kids. What happened to them was a shock to all who knew them. What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughter respected them, and respected their wishes.
All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their respecting their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
Enjoy judging all those that don't believe in what you do, or fit into your perfect unschooling mold!
Funny, I always thought that unschoolers would be the last ones to judge anyone else...wrong again!!
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Way back when I decided to teach my son at home, I went to an unschoolers meeting in Boston. After talking with the parents there and hearing their philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler. After much trial and error over the years, I realized that the best way for my kids to learn was to let them just do whatever it was that they were interested in. We got the basic math and english out of the way and they did, and still do what they are passionate about.
Though my method for school with my daughter is "unschooling," I will no longer use that term to describe our situation. I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting." I love my kids too much to just let them make decisions that will end up harming them. Yes, I believe in letting kids make mistakes to help them to learn and mature, but never to bring mental or physical harm to themselves. I don't care if you want to call it controlling, manipulating, whatever. I call it being a loving parent concerned for my child's welfare.
I am done with this group and the narrow minded way everyone seems to be when it comes to parenting a child. I also don't like the way so many have judged a family that no one on here even knew. I could understand if you actually saw the behavior you describe in person, but none of you did. You are all going by what you have read or saw on the news. And then making your own assumptions on how she was brought up. I saw the real family, saw the love they had for their kids. What happened to them was a shock to all who knew them. What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughter respected them, and respected their wishes.
All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their respecting their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
Enjoy judging all those that don't believe in what you do, or fit into your perfect unschooling mold!
Funny, I always thought that unschoolers would be the last ones to judge anyone else...wrong again!!
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~After talking with the parents there and hearing their
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler~~
This statement here proves that you have spent very little time around
any unschoolers or talking with them in any depth.
Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisions. But that
doesn't mean "let them do whatever they want" nor does it equal a
free-for-all that you are trying to paint.
It's a LOT harder to build trusting relationships (yet easier in the
long run) than to forbid and punish (which has already been proven to
NOT work). If you were open enough to ask HOW that can work and WHY
punishment and forbidding are less effective methods, we can give
specifics. The defensive nature and antagonistic way you are phrasing
things isn't going to lead to a back and forth in which we can all
discuss various options.
If punishment and coercion don't work (and it's pretty obvious it
doesn't) then what are the options for parents? I believe that we can
live in a way that honors each persons needs and desires. I KNOW we
can live this way because we DO.
I have four children that trust their needs/wants and desires are just
as important as mine. It makes the flow of family life a lot better.
But it'd hard to describe this trusting flow to an outsider that has
already decided we're a bunch of nuts.
Funny thing though, everyone is always commenting on how interesting
and nice my kids are. Without forbidding, without punishing or laying
down any "law" I have four very different children that WANT to be
healthy and happy (even though they choose very differently from me at
times).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler~~
This statement here proves that you have spent very little time around
any unschoolers or talking with them in any depth.
Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisions. But that
doesn't mean "let them do whatever they want" nor does it equal a
free-for-all that you are trying to paint.
It's a LOT harder to build trusting relationships (yet easier in the
long run) than to forbid and punish (which has already been proven to
NOT work). If you were open enough to ask HOW that can work and WHY
punishment and forbidding are less effective methods, we can give
specifics. The defensive nature and antagonistic way you are phrasing
things isn't going to lead to a back and forth in which we can all
discuss various options.
If punishment and coercion don't work (and it's pretty obvious it
doesn't) then what are the options for parents? I believe that we can
live in a way that honors each persons needs and desires. I KNOW we
can live this way because we DO.
I have four children that trust their needs/wants and desires are just
as important as mine. It makes the flow of family life a lot better.
But it'd hard to describe this trusting flow to an outsider that has
already decided we're a bunch of nuts.
Funny thing though, everyone is always commenting on how interesting
and nice my kids are. Without forbidding, without punishing or laying
down any "law" I have four very different children that WANT to be
healthy and happy (even though they choose very differently from me at
times).
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Lorrie
<iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
specifically you mean by the word and then how to go about having
more of it in your life. Its also worthwhile to consider how people
learn things, so you can help your kids learn to be respectful.
If by respect you mean "compliance" then a certain amount of that is
a result of personality. Some people like to smooth things over and
create a peaceful environment by nature, and will be compliant and
give up things they want in order to do that. If you or your
children are naturally compliant, then you may have a hard time
understanding how respect can look differently for different
personalities.
If by respect you mean "consideration" then consider this - a person
who does a specific task because its expected of him isn't really
being considerate. I want my kids to be considerate as a spontaneous
act of generousity - and they are, sometimes. I cherish that. My
kids - even my teenage stepson who was en route to getting expelled
from public school - offeres to do and give things graciously,
generously. He is kind and thoughtful to my dd, even though he is
never required to do a single thing for her. He offers to help
around the house with no expectation of reward. This is the "bad
kid" who everyone at school said was disrespecful, angry and
dangerous.
Here he's none of those things.
Here he, his needs and wants and wishes, are respected.
Funny how that works.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
>What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughterIf respect is something you value, its worthwhile to consider what,
>respected them, and respected their wishes.
> All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their
>respecting their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
specifically you mean by the word and then how to go about having
more of it in your life. Its also worthwhile to consider how people
learn things, so you can help your kids learn to be respectful.
If by respect you mean "compliance" then a certain amount of that is
a result of personality. Some people like to smooth things over and
create a peaceful environment by nature, and will be compliant and
give up things they want in order to do that. If you or your
children are naturally compliant, then you may have a hard time
understanding how respect can look differently for different
personalities.
If by respect you mean "consideration" then consider this - a person
who does a specific task because its expected of him isn't really
being considerate. I want my kids to be considerate as a spontaneous
act of generousity - and they are, sometimes. I cherish that. My
kids - even my teenage stepson who was en route to getting expelled
from public school - offeres to do and give things graciously,
generously. He is kind and thoughtful to my dd, even though he is
never required to do a single thing for her. He offers to help
around the house with no expectation of reward. This is the "bad
kid" who everyone at school said was disrespecful, angry and
dangerous.
Here he's none of those things.
Here he, his needs and wants and wishes, are respected.
Funny how that works.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Fetteroll
On Jun 8, 2007, at 11:05 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
our children can figure things out.
*Part* of figuring things out is talking about it. Kids aren't left
alone to figure things out for themselves. They know, because we've
built up that trust that they can bring the things we won't
necessarily agree with to us and we won't condemn them for it, that
they can come to us for information and to use us as a sounding board
to help them think things through.
We don't trust that they have and know everything necessary to make
the right decision the first time. But we do trust that they are
capable of thinking about a situation and learning from mistakes and
going on to make even better decisions.
The younger kids start the process of decision making, the better.
It's better to start making decisions about which cartoons they like
and which foods they like than start the whole process when a boy
starts pressuring for sex.
The biggest reason kids do dangerous, senseless things is because
they feel controlled and untrusted.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisionsMaybe a more understandable way of putting this is that we trust that
our children can figure things out.
*Part* of figuring things out is talking about it. Kids aren't left
alone to figure things out for themselves. They know, because we've
built up that trust that they can bring the things we won't
necessarily agree with to us and we won't condemn them for it, that
they can come to us for information and to use us as a sounding board
to help them think things through.
We don't trust that they have and know everything necessary to make
the right decision the first time. But we do trust that they are
capable of thinking about a situation and learning from mistakes and
going on to make even better decisions.
The younger kids start the process of decision making, the better.
It's better to start making decisions about which cartoons they like
and which foods they like than start the whole process when a boy
starts pressuring for sex.
The biggest reason kids do dangerous, senseless things is because
they feel controlled and untrusted.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorrie
All of this "proof" from what is being said here and from what is read and seen, is too much. Nothing here is actual "proof", again it is all speculation, and what others conclude.
I am not trying to paint anything, I am simply commenting back on what was said to me. I am responding to facts that are being said, not painting any pictures. What has been said is pretty clear and what I am supposedly "painting" is from what I am reading here.
Keeping up with all this is not something I really care to do. If reading into everything and analyzing everyone and everything that is said is what people enjoy, then that if fine. As for me I do have a life away from the computer and I am getting on with it.
Enjoy your debates and judging everyone that doesn't agree with your philosophy, I am done with all of this.
~~After talking with the parents there and hearing their
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler~~
This statement here proves that you have spent very little time around
any unschoolers or talking with them in any depth.
Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisions. But that
doesn't mean "let them do whatever they want" nor does it equal a
free-for-all that you are trying to paint.
It's a LOT harder to build trusting relationships (yet easier in the
long run) than to forbid and punish (which has already been proven to
NOT work). If you were open enough to ask HOW that can work and WHY
punishment and forbidding are less effective methods, we can give
specifics. The defensive nature and antagonistic way you are phrasing
things isn't going to lead to a back and forth in which we can all
discuss various options.
If punishment and coercion don't work (and it's pretty obvious it
doesn't) then what are the options for parents? I believe that we can
live in a way that honors each persons needs and desires. I KNOW we
can live this way because we DO.
I have four children that trust their needs/wants and desires are just
as important as mine. It makes the flow of family life a lot better.
But it'd hard to describe this trusting flow to an outsider that has
already decided we're a bunch of nuts.
Funny thing though, everyone is always commenting on how interesting
and nice my kids are. Without forbidding, without punishing or laying
down any "law" I have four very different children that WANT to be
healthy and happy (even though they choose very differently from me at
times).
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am not trying to paint anything, I am simply commenting back on what was said to me. I am responding to facts that are being said, not painting any pictures. What has been said is pretty clear and what I am supposedly "painting" is from what I am reading here.
Keeping up with all this is not something I really care to do. If reading into everything and analyzing everyone and everything that is said is what people enjoy, then that if fine. As for me I do have a life away from the computer and I am getting on with it.
Enjoy your debates and judging everyone that doesn't agree with your philosophy, I am done with all of this.
~~After talking with the parents there and hearing their
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler~~
This statement here proves that you have spent very little time around
any unschoolers or talking with them in any depth.
Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisions. But that
doesn't mean "let them do whatever they want" nor does it equal a
free-for-all that you are trying to paint.
It's a LOT harder to build trusting relationships (yet easier in the
long run) than to forbid and punish (which has already been proven to
NOT work). If you were open enough to ask HOW that can work and WHY
punishment and forbidding are less effective methods, we can give
specifics. The defensive nature and antagonistic way you are phrasing
things isn't going to lead to a back and forth in which we can all
discuss various options.
If punishment and coercion don't work (and it's pretty obvious it
doesn't) then what are the options for parents? I believe that we can
live in a way that honors each persons needs and desires. I KNOW we
can live this way because we DO.
I have four children that trust their needs/wants and desires are just
as important as mine. It makes the flow of family life a lot better.
But it'd hard to describe this trusting flow to an outsider that has
already decided we're a bunch of nuts.
Funny thing though, everyone is always commenting on how interesting
and nice my kids are. Without forbidding, without punishing or laying
down any "law" I have four very different children that WANT to be
healthy and happy (even though they choose very differently from me at
times).
Ren
learninginfreedom. com
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erica Iwamura
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting."
Wow, that seems pretty judgemental...
I love my kids too much to just let them make decisions that will end up
harming them.
are you saying that we don't love our kids? My children are my reason for
getting up every morning, the reason I want to live a peaceful and joyful
life and they are my friends as well as my children. To make a statement
that basically says that we don't love our children is really brazen.
I also don't like the way so many have judged a family that no one on here
even knew.
You just judged us in your statement above and you don't know us.
Wow, that seems pretty judgemental...
I love my kids too much to just let them make decisions that will end up
harming them.
are you saying that we don't love our kids? My children are my reason for
getting up every morning, the reason I want to live a peaceful and joyful
life and they are my friends as well as my children. To make a statement
that basically says that we don't love our children is really brazen.
I also don't like the way so many have judged a family that no one on here
even knew.
You just judged us in your statement above and you don't know us.
On 6/8/07, Lorrie <iamhisservant4ever@...> wrote:
>
> All of the previous posts just confirm my desire not to be labeled an
> uschooler. I have a problem with any kind of label being associated with me
> or my family.
>
> Way back when I decided to teach my son at home, I went to an unschoolers
> meeting in Boston. After talking with the parents there and hearing their
> philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
> consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on their
> own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler. After much trial
> and error over the years, I realized that the best way for my kids to learn
> was to let them just do whatever it was that they were interested in. We got
> the basic math and english out of the way and they did, and still do what
> they are passionate about.
>
> Though my method for school with my daughter is "unschooling," I will no
> longer use that term to describe our situation. I see from this group that
> "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting." I love my kids too much to
> just let them make decisions that will end up harming them. Yes, I believe
> in letting kids make mistakes to help them to learn and mature, but never to
> bring mental or physical harm to themselves. I don't care if you want to
> call it controlling, manipulating, whatever. I call it being a loving parent
> concerned for my child's welfare.
>
> I am done with this group and the narrow minded way everyone seems to be
> when it comes to parenting a child. I also don't like the way so many have
> judged a family that no one on here even knew. I could understand if you
> actually saw the behavior you describe in person, but none of you did. You
> are all going by what you have read or saw on the news. And then making your
> own assumptions on how she was brought up. I saw the real family, saw the
> love they had for their kids. What happened to them was a shock to all who
> knew them. What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughter
> respected them, and respected their wishes.
> All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their
> respecting their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
>
> Enjoy judging all those that don't believe in what you do, or fit into
> your perfect unschooling mold!
>
> Funny, I always thought that unschoolers would be the last ones to judge
> anyone else...wrong again!!
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
They say I'm Crazy but I Have a Good Time - Joe Walsh
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorrie <iamhisservant4ever@...>
All of the previous posts just confirm my desire not to be labeled an
uschooler.
I have a problem with any kind of label being associated with me or my
family.
-=-=-=-
And yet, you're still here.
-=-=-=-
Way back when I decided to teach my son at home, I went to an
unschoolers
meeting in Boston. After talking with the parents there and hearing
their
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their
own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler. After much
trial and
error over the years, I realized that the best way for my kids to learn
was to
let them just do whatever it was that they were interested in. We got
the basic
math and english out of the way and they did, and still do what they
are
passionate about.
-=-=-=-
Well, changing your vocaulary from "teaching him at home" to "allowing
him to *learn* at home" would have been a good start, but nevermind....
You weren't listening clearly probably. I bet NO ONE said, "We don't
our kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences." I bet they said, "We don't tell out kids what to do, but
we DO discuss their options and help them mae the best decision that
can make."
And I bet they didn't say. "And not teaching them anything, let them
learn it all on their
own." They probably said, "We don't *teach*; we allow them to learn by
opening as many doors as we can and helping them with their passions
and interests."
Your decision not to unschool must not have come *too* quickly, 'cause
you found yourslef here---and you haven't left!
-=-=-=-=-
Though my method for school with my daughter is "unschooling," I will
no longer
use that term to describe our situation.
-=-=-=
Good, because it's probably not.
-=-=-=-=-
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean
"unparenting."
-=-=-=-
Again---not seeing clearly. We write about that a lot. A LOT!
-=-=-=-=-
I love my kids too much to just
let them make decisions that will end up harming them.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Ever? How will you prevent that? Many decision hurt us. It's part of
the learning process. I see my role as helping them make better
decisions each time. To console them when they *do* get hurt. To
discuss what they could do differently next time.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, I believe in letting kids make mistakes to help them to learn and
mature, but never to bring mental
or physical harm to themselves. I don't care if you want to call it
controlling,
manipulating, whatever. I call it being a loving parent concerned for
my child's welfare.
-=-=-=-
You say po-TAY-to, I say po-TAH-to.
The problem is that the tighter you wind that rubber band, the further
it'll fly.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I am done with this group and the narrow minded way everyone seems to
be when it
comes to parenting a child.
-=-=-=-
Not done enough, it seems.
But if you look clearly, we're a good bit more open-minded. We're
looking at things through a W---I---D---E lens. We're seeing the
situation from all points of view, not just that of the controlling
parent.
I don't thik these mainstream parents think they are doing *anything*
wrong. They truly believe that they are doing ALL THE RIGHT THINGS by
forbidding and controlling their teens. The problem is that the teens
ARE being controlled and manipulated and that they will rebel as soon
as they get the balls to take that flight.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I also don't like the way so many have judged a
family that no one on here even knew. I could understand if you
actually saw the
behavior you describe in person, but none of you did. You are all going
by what
you have read or saw on the news. And then making your own assumptions
on how
she was brought up.
-=-=-=-=-=-
All I have to go on is what you brought here to us on this elist. ONLY.
You said they forbade her to see this young man. That she was sneaky
and lied. THose are typical behaviors from controlled teens (actually
from *anyone* under someone else's control!).
-=-=-=-=-
I saw the real family, saw the love they had for their
kids. What happened to them was a shock to all who knew them.
-=-=-=-=-
Wouldn't have been a shock to me. I would have expected it---or
something similar---certainly not that drastic! Running away would have
been my first thought.
-=-=-=-=-=-
What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughter
respected them, and respected
their wishes.
-=-=-==-
How do you think respect is gained? Through threats and control?
I can guarantee that's not how it works!
-=-=-=-=-
All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their
respecting
their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
-=-==-
It comes after years and years of respect for the CHILD.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Funny, I always thought that unschoolers would be the last ones to
judge anyone
else...wrong again!!
-=-=-==-
NOT judging situations makes all situations equally valid. Making
smart, wise judgments is how we make smart, wise decisions. Accepting
what others do and say withOUT judgment is floundering. Weighing the
good and bad helps us make better decisions.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: Lorrie <iamhisservant4ever@...>
All of the previous posts just confirm my desire not to be labeled an
uschooler.
I have a problem with any kind of label being associated with me or my
family.
-=-=-=-
And yet, you're still here.
-=-=-=-
Way back when I decided to teach my son at home, I went to an
unschoolers
meeting in Boston. After talking with the parents there and hearing
their
philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
their
own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler. After much
trial and
error over the years, I realized that the best way for my kids to learn
was to
let them just do whatever it was that they were interested in. We got
the basic
math and english out of the way and they did, and still do what they
are
passionate about.
-=-=-=-
Well, changing your vocaulary from "teaching him at home" to "allowing
him to *learn* at home" would have been a good start, but nevermind....
You weren't listening clearly probably. I bet NO ONE said, "We don't
our kids what to do, no matter what the
consequences." I bet they said, "We don't tell out kids what to do, but
we DO discuss their options and help them mae the best decision that
can make."
And I bet they didn't say. "And not teaching them anything, let them
learn it all on their
own." They probably said, "We don't *teach*; we allow them to learn by
opening as many doors as we can and helping them with their passions
and interests."
Your decision not to unschool must not have come *too* quickly, 'cause
you found yourslef here---and you haven't left!
-=-=-=-=-
Though my method for school with my daughter is "unschooling," I will
no longer
use that term to describe our situation.
-=-=-=
Good, because it's probably not.
-=-=-=-=-
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean
"unparenting."
-=-=-=-
Again---not seeing clearly. We write about that a lot. A LOT!
-=-=-=-=-
I love my kids too much to just
let them make decisions that will end up harming them.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Ever? How will you prevent that? Many decision hurt us. It's part of
the learning process. I see my role as helping them make better
decisions each time. To console them when they *do* get hurt. To
discuss what they could do differently next time.
-=-=-=-=-
Yes, I believe in letting kids make mistakes to help them to learn and
mature, but never to bring mental
or physical harm to themselves. I don't care if you want to call it
controlling,
manipulating, whatever. I call it being a loving parent concerned for
my child's welfare.
-=-=-=-
You say po-TAY-to, I say po-TAH-to.
The problem is that the tighter you wind that rubber band, the further
it'll fly.
-=-=-=-=-=-
I am done with this group and the narrow minded way everyone seems to
be when it
comes to parenting a child.
-=-=-=-
Not done enough, it seems.
But if you look clearly, we're a good bit more open-minded. We're
looking at things through a W---I---D---E lens. We're seeing the
situation from all points of view, not just that of the controlling
parent.
I don't thik these mainstream parents think they are doing *anything*
wrong. They truly believe that they are doing ALL THE RIGHT THINGS by
forbidding and controlling their teens. The problem is that the teens
ARE being controlled and manipulated and that they will rebel as soon
as they get the balls to take that flight.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I also don't like the way so many have judged a
family that no one on here even knew. I could understand if you
actually saw the
behavior you describe in person, but none of you did. You are all going
by what
you have read or saw on the news. And then making your own assumptions
on how
she was brought up.
-=-=-=-=-=-
All I have to go on is what you brought here to us on this elist. ONLY.
You said they forbade her to see this young man. That she was sneaky
and lied. THose are typical behaviors from controlled teens (actually
from *anyone* under someone else's control!).
-=-=-=-=-
I saw the real family, saw the love they had for their
kids. What happened to them was a shock to all who knew them.
-=-=-=-=-
Wouldn't have been a shock to me. I would have expected it---or
something similar---certainly not that drastic! Running away would have
been my first thought.
-=-=-=-=-=-
What happened to them could have been avoided had their daughter
respected them, and respected
their wishes.
-=-=-==-
How do you think respect is gained? Through threats and control?
I can guarantee that's not how it works!
-=-=-=-=-
All you talk about is respecting your children, what about their
respecting
their parent. Does that suddenly not matter?
-=-==-
It comes after years and years of respect for the CHILD.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Funny, I always thought that unschoolers would be the last ones to
judge anyone
else...wrong again!!
-=-=-==-
NOT judging situations makes all situations equally valid. Making
smart, wise judgments is how we make smart, wise decisions. Accepting
what others do and say withOUT judgment is floundering. Weighing the
good and bad helps us make better decisions.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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In a message dated 6/8/2007 9:48:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
hakujin777@... writes:
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting."
Yeah, that really seems...well, hurtful. I know I parent. I can't imagine
that you know all the unschooling families, let alone their parenting styles,
just from come commentary and discussion on an unusual and very frightening
episode with one family. Seems to me that many of the group here are processing
the subject, thinking out loud, gaining some clarity and trying to make
sense of the senseless. But, I am new to this group, so perhaps I am speaking out
of turn.
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hakujin777@... writes:
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting."
Yeah, that really seems...well, hurtful. I know I parent. I can't imagine
that you know all the unschooling families, let alone their parenting styles,
just from come commentary and discussion on an unusual and very frightening
episode with one family. Seems to me that many of the group here are processing
the subject, thinking out loud, gaining some clarity and trying to make
sense of the senseless. But, I am new to this group, so perhaps I am speaking out
of turn.
Karen
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Hmm. Well, perhaps before you leave, you could tell us more about your experience with unschooling in your family, instead of debating control and manipulation in someone else's life.
I noticed from all your posts since you joined the list, not one of them talks about how unschooling works in your home. You originally posted that you have a 22 yo ds and a 16 yo dd that were/are unschooled. Tell us about a typical day with either of them. Tell us about *your* unschooling life now. Maybe someone can learn something important from you.
The owners, moderators and long-time list members have a wealth of wisdom to give. They are happy to give it for free, to help others understand unschooling so they can live free, joyous and respectful lives with their children. You've taken up a lot of the list's time refuting people's loving lives with their kids. Maybe really listening to what they are saying might be worth your time.
Robin B.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lorrie <iamhisservant4ever@...>
I noticed from all your posts since you joined the list, not one of them talks about how unschooling works in your home. You originally posted that you have a 22 yo ds and a 16 yo dd that were/are unschooled. Tell us about a typical day with either of them. Tell us about *your* unschooling life now. Maybe someone can learn something important from you.
The owners, moderators and long-time list members have a wealth of wisdom to give. They are happy to give it for free, to help others understand unschooling so they can live free, joyous and respectful lives with their children. You've taken up a lot of the list's time refuting people's loving lives with their kids. Maybe really listening to what they are saying might be worth your time.
Robin B.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lorrie <iamhisservant4ever@...>
> All of this "proof" from what is being said here and from what is read and seen,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> is too much. Nothing here is actual "proof", again it is all speculation, and
> what others conclude.
>
> I am not trying to paint anything, I am simply commenting back on what was said
> to me. I am responding to facts that are being said, not painting any pictures.
> What has been said is pretty clear and what I am supposedly "painting" is from
> what I am reading here.
>
> Keeping up with all this is not something I really care to do. If reading into
> everything and analyzing everyone and everything that is said is what people
> enjoy, then that if fine. As for me I do have a life away from the computer and
> I am getting on with it.
>
> Enjoy your debates and judging everyone that doesn't agree with your philosophy,
> I am done with all of this.
>
>
> ~~After talking with the parents there and hearing their
> philosophy on not telling their kids what to do, no matter what the
> consequences. And not teaching them anything, let them learn it all on
> their own, I quickly changed my mind about being an unschooler~~
>
> This statement here proves that you have spent very little time around
> any unschoolers or talking with them in any depth.
>
> Yes, we trust our children can make their own decisions. But that
> doesn't mean "let them do whatever they want" nor does it equal a
> free-for-all that you are trying to paint.
>
> It's a LOT harder to build trusting relationships (yet easier in the
> long run) than to forbid and punish (which has already been proven to
> NOT work). If you were open enough to ask HOW that can work and WHY
> punishment and forbidding are less effective methods, we can give
> specifics. The defensive nature and antagonistic way you are phrasing
> things isn't going to lead to a back and forth in which we can all
> discuss various options.
>
> If punishment and coercion don't work (and it's pretty obvious it
> doesn't) then what are the options for parents? I believe that we can
> live in a way that honors each persons needs and desires. I KNOW we
> can live this way because we DO.
>
> I have four children that trust their needs/wants and desires are just
> as important as mine. It makes the flow of family life a lot better.
> But it'd hard to describe this trusting flow to an outsider that has
> already decided we're a bunch of nuts.
>
> Funny thing though, everyone is always commenting on how interesting
> and nice my kids are. Without forbidding, without punishing or laying
> down any "law" I have four very different children that WANT to be
> healthy and happy (even though they choose very differently from me at
> times).
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom. com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Nicole Willoughby
I see from this group that "unschooling" seems to also mean "unparenting. "
but I celebrate "unparenting" just like unbirthdays ..........I have 365 days a year where I get to toss away my authoritarian ways and joyfully celebrate life with my kids.
Nicole
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Obviously the OP meant unparenting in a negative possibly hurtful way.......
but I celebrate "unparenting" just like unbirthdays ..........I have 365 days a year where I get to toss away my authoritarian ways and joyfully celebrate life with my kids.
Nicole
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