Another grandparent issue
Vanessa
Hi,
Sorry to bother you guys again, but we had another issue about my
kids seeing their grandparents (dh's parents) this weekend.
DH asked the kids if they wanted to do breakfast with his parents
this weekend. DS said yes, only to make dh happy. Dd didn't want
to, because she doesn't want to see them.
On Sunday they woke up, and ate breakfast here. Dh woke up really
grouchy, and was upset that they ate here, instead of wanting to go
out to breakfast with him and his parents. (It was after 11:00 a.m.
when he left for breakfast.) The kids are used to eating after they
get up, which has been around 9. So to wait until 11 is too long for
them to eat after they get up.
Problem remains, that my kids don't want to see their grandparents
here, and dh keeps trying to push them into it, even though he
promised he wouldn't. My kids are attached to my parents, who live
550 miles away, and would rather see them. How do we handle this,
and let dh know in a nice way, that he shouldn't push, and when the
kids are ready they will let him know? I know it hurts him, but his
parents alienated my kids long ago, when they were out of the cute
baby stages. They are now almost 10 and 11, and can make some of
those decisions on their own. Dh never had a relationship with his
grandparents, so he understands, but never accepts that his parents
did this to themselves. HELP?
Sorry to bother you guys again, but we had another issue about my
kids seeing their grandparents (dh's parents) this weekend.
DH asked the kids if they wanted to do breakfast with his parents
this weekend. DS said yes, only to make dh happy. Dd didn't want
to, because she doesn't want to see them.
On Sunday they woke up, and ate breakfast here. Dh woke up really
grouchy, and was upset that they ate here, instead of wanting to go
out to breakfast with him and his parents. (It was after 11:00 a.m.
when he left for breakfast.) The kids are used to eating after they
get up, which has been around 9. So to wait until 11 is too long for
them to eat after they get up.
Problem remains, that my kids don't want to see their grandparents
here, and dh keeps trying to push them into it, even though he
promised he wouldn't. My kids are attached to my parents, who live
550 miles away, and would rather see them. How do we handle this,
and let dh know in a nice way, that he shouldn't push, and when the
kids are ready they will let him know? I know it hurts him, but his
parents alienated my kids long ago, when they were out of the cute
baby stages. They are now almost 10 and 11, and can make some of
those decisions on their own. Dh never had a relationship with his
grandparents, so he understands, but never accepts that his parents
did this to themselves. HELP?
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], "Vanessa"
<psychomom95@...> wrote:
I guess I am a bit confused why they would not want to see their
grandparents?
sounds like a visit time more than a meal time? Maybe I am still
confused.
grandparents that you are not always thrilled with but you know love
you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
How do we handle this,
arrive next week. As much as you love your kids, you love your
grandkids and you do not have the same ability and access to your
grandchildren, especially if they are your sons children.I know that
sounds sexist, but truly it is not.
Both of my dil are beautiful girls whom I completely love. They let
me love their children. They generously share them with me and love
me despite my faults.
My oldest sons first wife did not like me. She hated me and after
she divorced my son she made it almost impossible to access my
grandaughter. It broke my heart.
Some of my children are also adopted and we see there birth
families. As far as I can tell you cannot have to many people that
love you.
My kids birthfamilies are not folks that I might choose to be
friends with if we did not share children. But they are my kids
birthfamilies and because I love my kids I make them comfortable and
I treat them with respect and kindness. They are my family. I also
set boundaries with the ones who are less appropriate so my kids
feel safe and can appreciate the contact. Like we meet in neutral
places and have timelines on the visit and code words so if they are
to uncomfortable we can leave. However during a visit I work very
hard to make sure my child and this birthfamily member are engaging
in positive interactions so my kids will feel good about the contact.
Yesterday former dil called and asked if I wanted to see
grandaughter. She lives 21 hours away and it is a rarity to have
any access.I said I would love that. They spent six hours at my
house, former dil and grandaughter. I fed them, chatted and chose to
practice kindness and tolerance despite that fact that this girl
devistated my son and has done some very cruel things to my family,
includinng malicious untruths about me.
She is the mother of my grandaughter, therefore she is also my
family.
I know there are situation where family needs to have boundaries
set. Where hurts need to heal, but communication and kindness can
bridge many gaps.
I am sorry your family is split and hurting over this. It is really
sad for everyone.
Kathleen
<psychomom95@...> wrote:
>Vanessa,
> Hi,
>
> Sorry to bother you guys again, but we had another issue about my
> kids seeing their grandparents (dh's parents) this weekend.
I guess I am a bit confused why they would not want to see their
grandparents?
> DH asked the kids if they wanted to do breakfast with his parentsHow far away do these folks live?
> this weekend. DS said yes, only to make dh happy. Dd didn't want
> to, because she doesn't want to see them.
>go
> On Sunday they woke up, and ate breakfast here. Dh woke up really
> grouchy, and was upset that they ate here, instead of wanting to
> out to breakfast with him and his parents. (It was after 11:00a.m.
> when he left for breakfast.) The kids are used to eating afterthey
> get up, which has been around 9. So to wait until 11 is too longfor
> them to eat after they get up.My kids will sometimes have two breakfasts before noon, also it
sounds like a visit time more than a meal time? Maybe I am still
confused.
>live
> Problem remains, that my kids don't want to see their grandparents
> here, and dh keeps trying to push them into it, even though he
> promised he wouldn't. My kids are attached to my parents, who
> 550 miles away, and would rather see them.You can be attached to 20 sets of grandparents, or you can have
grandparents that you are not always thrilled with but you know love
you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
How do we handle this,
> and let dh know in a nice way, that he shouldn't push, and whenthe
> kids are ready they will let him know? I know it hurts him, buthis
> parents alienated my kids long ago, when they were out of the cutehis
> baby stages. They are now almost 10 and 11, and can make some of
> those decisions on their own. Dh never had a relationship with
> grandparents, so he understands, but never accepts that hisparents
> did this to themselves.First I need to say I am a grandma. My fourth grandaughter is due to
arrive next week. As much as you love your kids, you love your
grandkids and you do not have the same ability and access to your
grandchildren, especially if they are your sons children.I know that
sounds sexist, but truly it is not.
Both of my dil are beautiful girls whom I completely love. They let
me love their children. They generously share them with me and love
me despite my faults.
My oldest sons first wife did not like me. She hated me and after
she divorced my son she made it almost impossible to access my
grandaughter. It broke my heart.
Some of my children are also adopted and we see there birth
families. As far as I can tell you cannot have to many people that
love you.
My kids birthfamilies are not folks that I might choose to be
friends with if we did not share children. But they are my kids
birthfamilies and because I love my kids I make them comfortable and
I treat them with respect and kindness. They are my family. I also
set boundaries with the ones who are less appropriate so my kids
feel safe and can appreciate the contact. Like we meet in neutral
places and have timelines on the visit and code words so if they are
to uncomfortable we can leave. However during a visit I work very
hard to make sure my child and this birthfamily member are engaging
in positive interactions so my kids will feel good about the contact.
Yesterday former dil called and asked if I wanted to see
grandaughter. She lives 21 hours away and it is a rarity to have
any access.I said I would love that. They spent six hours at my
house, former dil and grandaughter. I fed them, chatted and chose to
practice kindness and tolerance despite that fact that this girl
devistated my son and has done some very cruel things to my family,
includinng malicious untruths about me.
She is the mother of my grandaughter, therefore she is also my
family.
I know there are situation where family needs to have boundaries
set. Where hurts need to heal, but communication and kindness can
bridge many gaps.
I am sorry your family is split and hurting over this. It is really
sad for everyone.
Kathleen
>
Su Penn
On May 29, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Kathleen Gehrke wrote:
older son doesn't much care to see my parents because my parents are
not very affectionate. My father doesn't know how to give my older
son Eric, who is six, time to warm up when we first arrive at their
house, but immediately wants Eric to, say, hug, him. This has been
the pattern since Eric was 2 or so:
My dad: Give grandpa a hug!
Eric stands quietly.
My dad: Give me a hug!
Eric scoots closer to me.
My dad, yelling: ERIC! COME GIVE GRANDPA A HUG!
Eric gets into my lap and stays there for an hour.
Carl, 3, is much quicker to warm up, and has a more outgoing
personality. In the last year, when we visit, my mother doesn't
bother to hide her preference for Carl over Eric.
My whole life, my parents treated me badly because I wasn't what they
wanted in a daughter. Now they are increasingly indifferent to my
kids, Eric especially, because he doesn't seem to fit some
preconceived notion they have about what a grandson should be like.
Neither of my parents is able to think of others, and put someone
else's feelings ahead of their own. Not even small children's.
Why wouldn't a kid want to see his grandparents? Because he's smart
enough not to want to go where he is not valued and treated well.
You can be attached to 20 sets of grandparents, or you can have
recently read "The Five Love Languages for Children" because it was
being discussed on AlwaysUnschooled. According to the authors, there
are five "love languages": gifts, acts of service, quality time,
physical touch, and words of affirmation. Amazingly, my parents
managed not to speak any of them, while maintaining a facade that we
were a successful, happy family. I do suspect they love me, or think
they do, but it is a lot to ask of a child that she "know her
grandparents love her" and accept them for who they are when they are
not showing love in any meaningful way and do not accept her for who
she is. I am in my 40s and only just getting the hang of this with my
parents, as I develop more compassion for them and their own
childhoods--if you look at the families they came from, full of
alcoholism and violence, my parents are miracles for not passing
those dysfunctions on. But they still fell far short of giving me and
my brother the love and affirmation children need to thrive, and, as
grandparents, they are materially generous but cold and not
affectionate.
Su
> I guess I am a bit confused why they would not want to see theirI can jump in on this one even though I'm not the original poster! My
> grandparents?
older son doesn't much care to see my parents because my parents are
not very affectionate. My father doesn't know how to give my older
son Eric, who is six, time to warm up when we first arrive at their
house, but immediately wants Eric to, say, hug, him. This has been
the pattern since Eric was 2 or so:
My dad: Give grandpa a hug!
Eric stands quietly.
My dad: Give me a hug!
Eric scoots closer to me.
My dad, yelling: ERIC! COME GIVE GRANDPA A HUG!
Eric gets into my lap and stays there for an hour.
Carl, 3, is much quicker to warm up, and has a more outgoing
personality. In the last year, when we visit, my mother doesn't
bother to hide her preference for Carl over Eric.
My whole life, my parents treated me badly because I wasn't what they
wanted in a daughter. Now they are increasingly indifferent to my
kids, Eric especially, because he doesn't seem to fit some
preconceived notion they have about what a grandson should be like.
Neither of my parents is able to think of others, and put someone
else's feelings ahead of their own. Not even small children's.
Why wouldn't a kid want to see his grandparents? Because he's smart
enough not to want to go where he is not valued and treated well.
You can be attached to 20 sets of grandparents, or you can have
> grandparents that you are not always thrilled with but you know loveHow do you know they love you if they never treat you like they do? I
> you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
recently read "The Five Love Languages for Children" because it was
being discussed on AlwaysUnschooled. According to the authors, there
are five "love languages": gifts, acts of service, quality time,
physical touch, and words of affirmation. Amazingly, my parents
managed not to speak any of them, while maintaining a facade that we
were a successful, happy family. I do suspect they love me, or think
they do, but it is a lot to ask of a child that she "know her
grandparents love her" and accept them for who they are when they are
not showing love in any meaningful way and do not accept her for who
she is. I am in my 40s and only just getting the hang of this with my
parents, as I develop more compassion for them and their own
childhoods--if you look at the families they came from, full of
alcoholism and violence, my parents are miracles for not passing
those dysfunctions on. But they still fell far short of giving me and
my brother the love and affirmation children need to thrive, and, as
grandparents, they are materially generous but cold and not
affectionate.
Su
Deb Lewis
***As far as I can tell you cannot have to many people that love you.***
I would have been able to recognize this as a Kathleen Gehrke quote
anywhere. <g>
Deb Lewis, busy with life and missing those Montana unschoolers.<g>
I would have been able to recognize this as a Kathleen Gehrke quote
anywhere. <g>
Deb Lewis, busy with life and missing those Montana unschoolers.<g>
Schafer Vanessa
Kathleen,
My in-laws live 5-10 minutes away from us. We live in
the same town.
My kids choose not to see their grandparents, because
as my son has told me many times--"I have given them
lots of chances mom, and they have blown them all."
That is alot for an 11 year old boy to have to live
with.
We have made every opportunity for them to see the
kids, and they are not interested. We invited them to
school stuff, when both kids were in ps, and I ended
up trying to explain that they couldn't come, when all
I knew was that they were either off to their other
grandson's concerts, which was after my childrens
concerts, or they just plain didn't want to go. After
discussing this with my dh, we decided to stop
inviting them, because there was always an "excuse" to
why they couldn't come.
My kids have also noticed that at family functions,
they are always paying attention to everyone else's
kids, but never them. This hurts them, and they don't
understand why. There are only 3 grandkids in dh's
family, two of them belong to us. My son just told me
that he would rather not see his grandparents here,
because everytime a baby comes around, that doesn't
belong to the family, his grandparents treat him like
he doesn't exist, and just pays attention to the baby.
They have always done this.
I do make sure to tell them that their grandparents
love them, and I have no problem with my husband
taking them over there to visit, but plain and simple,
the kids just don't want to go. I don't feel that
it's a good thing to force them, because it would do
more harm than good. I also don't have a problem with
them being attached to both sets of grandparents.
There is no bond/connection with the set that lives
near us.
My children are just as happy not to see them. The
fact that they are attached to my parents is not a
contest. It never was. My parents do things with
them, call them long distance, send them letters, and
pictures. The ones that live here, don't know my
kids, and have never taken the chance to get to know
them. I have been put in situations with my dad's
parents, and was forced to go for visits with them.
It backfired and in a bad way.
My children deserve to be happy, and feel loved and
safe. They don't get those feelings from my in-laws.
I feel bad for my kids and my dh's parents, because
they are missing out on two really good kids. I can
only get them to agree to see their grandparents once
a month at breakfast, if even that. I can't help the
way their grandparents here treat them. They are not
the traditional kind of grandparents, and don't really
have much time to spare to spend with my kids.
I am not a nasty evil daughter in law. I don't get
along with my in-laws, and they aren't allowed at my
house while I am home, but I have never stopped them
from seeing my kids. They can call them any time they
want, but they choose not to. They could ask for my
dh to take them over for a visit, but they don't.
None of this is my fault. It is their's for not
making any effort to see their grandkids, and to get
to know them. My kids have told me that when they
visit over there, their grandparents don't really talk
to them, and talk to my dh instead. I guess sometimes
they should stop and think about how that would make
them feel, especially since my kids tell me how much
in bothers them. Talking to them doesn't help, they
just don't get it.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
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My in-laws live 5-10 minutes away from us. We live in
the same town.
My kids choose not to see their grandparents, because
as my son has told me many times--"I have given them
lots of chances mom, and they have blown them all."
That is alot for an 11 year old boy to have to live
with.
We have made every opportunity for them to see the
kids, and they are not interested. We invited them to
school stuff, when both kids were in ps, and I ended
up trying to explain that they couldn't come, when all
I knew was that they were either off to their other
grandson's concerts, which was after my childrens
concerts, or they just plain didn't want to go. After
discussing this with my dh, we decided to stop
inviting them, because there was always an "excuse" to
why they couldn't come.
My kids have also noticed that at family functions,
they are always paying attention to everyone else's
kids, but never them. This hurts them, and they don't
understand why. There are only 3 grandkids in dh's
family, two of them belong to us. My son just told me
that he would rather not see his grandparents here,
because everytime a baby comes around, that doesn't
belong to the family, his grandparents treat him like
he doesn't exist, and just pays attention to the baby.
They have always done this.
I do make sure to tell them that their grandparents
love them, and I have no problem with my husband
taking them over there to visit, but plain and simple,
the kids just don't want to go. I don't feel that
it's a good thing to force them, because it would do
more harm than good. I also don't have a problem with
them being attached to both sets of grandparents.
There is no bond/connection with the set that lives
near us.
My children are just as happy not to see them. The
fact that they are attached to my parents is not a
contest. It never was. My parents do things with
them, call them long distance, send them letters, and
pictures. The ones that live here, don't know my
kids, and have never taken the chance to get to know
them. I have been put in situations with my dad's
parents, and was forced to go for visits with them.
It backfired and in a bad way.
My children deserve to be happy, and feel loved and
safe. They don't get those feelings from my in-laws.
I feel bad for my kids and my dh's parents, because
they are missing out on two really good kids. I can
only get them to agree to see their grandparents once
a month at breakfast, if even that. I can't help the
way their grandparents here treat them. They are not
the traditional kind of grandparents, and don't really
have much time to spare to spend with my kids.
I am not a nasty evil daughter in law. I don't get
along with my in-laws, and they aren't allowed at my
house while I am home, but I have never stopped them
from seeing my kids. They can call them any time they
want, but they choose not to. They could ask for my
dh to take them over for a visit, but they don't.
None of this is my fault. It is their's for not
making any effort to see their grandkids, and to get
to know them. My kids have told me that when they
visit over there, their grandparents don't really talk
to them, and talk to my dh instead. I guess sometimes
they should stop and think about how that would make
them feel, especially since my kids tell me how much
in bothers them. Talking to them doesn't help, they
just don't get it.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Vanessa"Vanessa
> <psychomom95@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Sorry to bother you guys again, but we had another
> issue about my
> > kids seeing their grandparents (dh's parents) this
> weekend.
> Vanessa,
>
> I guess I am a bit confused why they would not want
> to see their
> grandparents?
>
>
> > DH asked the kids if they wanted to do breakfast
> with his parents
> > this weekend. DS said yes, only to make dh happy.
> Dd didn't want
> > to, because she doesn't want to see them.
>
> How far away do these folks live?
> >
> > On Sunday they woke up, and ate breakfast here.
> Dh woke up really
> > grouchy, and was upset that they ate here, instead
> of wanting to
> go
> > out to breakfast with him and his parents. (It
> was after 11:00
> a.m.
> > when he left for breakfast.) The kids are used to
> eating after
> they
> > get up, which has been around 9. So to wait until
> 11 is too long
> for
> > them to eat after they get up.
>
>
> My kids will sometimes have two breakfasts before
> noon, also it
> sounds like a visit time more than a meal time?
> Maybe I am still
> confused.
> >
> > Problem remains, that my kids don't want to see
> their grandparents
> > here, and dh keeps trying to push them into it,
> even though he
> > promised he wouldn't. My kids are attached to my
> parents, who
> live
> > 550 miles away, and would rather see them.
>
> You can be attached to 20 sets of grandparents, or
> you can have
> grandparents that you are not always thrilled with
> but you know love
> you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
>
>
> How do we handle this,
> > and let dh know in a nice way, that he shouldn't
> push, and when
> the
> > kids are ready they will let him know? I know it
> hurts him, but
> his
> > parents alienated my kids long ago, when they were
> out of the cute
> > baby stages. They are now almost 10 and 11, and
> can make some of
> > those decisions on their own. Dh never had a
> relationship with
> his
> > grandparents, so he understands, but never accepts
> that his
> parents
> > did this to themselves.
>
>
> First I need to say I am a grandma. My fourth
> grandaughter is due to
> arrive next week. As much as you love your kids, you
> love your
> grandkids and you do not have the same ability and
> access to your
> grandchildren, especially if they are your sons
> children.I know that
> sounds sexist, but truly it is not.
>
> Both of my dil are beautiful girls whom I completely
> love. They let
> me love their children. They generously share them
> with me and love
> me despite my faults.
>
> My oldest sons first wife did not like me. She hated
> me and after
> she divorced my son she made it almost impossible to
> access my
> grandaughter. It broke my heart.
>
> Some of my children are also adopted and we see
> there birth
> families. As far as I can tell you cannot have to
> many people that
> love you.
>
> My kids birthfamilies are not folks that I might
> choose to be
> friends with if we did not share children. But they
> are my kids
> birthfamilies and because I love my kids I make them
> comfortable and
> I treat them with respect and kindness. They are my
> family. I also
> set boundaries with the ones who are less
> appropriate so my kids
> feel safe and can appreciate the contact. Like we
> meet in neutral
> places and have timelines on the visit and code
> words so if they are
> to uncomfortable we can leave. However during a
> visit I work very
> hard to make sure my child and this birthfamily
> member are engaging
> in positive interactions so my kids will feel good
> about the contact.
>
> Yesterday former dil called and asked if I wanted to
> see
> grandaughter. She lives 21 hours away and it is a
> rarity to have
> any access.I said I would love that. They spent six
> hours at my
> house, former dil and grandaughter. I fed them,
> chatted and chose to
> practice kindness and tolerance despite that fact
> that this girl
> devistated my son and has done some very cruel
> things to my family,
> includinng malicious untruths about me.
>
> She is the mother of my grandaughter, therefore she
> is also my
> family.
>
> I know there are situation where family needs to
> have boundaries
> set. Where hurts need to heal, but communication and
> kindness can
> bridge many gaps.
>
> I am sorry your family is split and hurting over
> this. It is really
> sad for everyone.
>
>
>
> Kathleen
> >
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Schafer Vanessa
Su,
Thank you. You have described my in-laws to a tee.
They aren't very affectionate at all. When my kids
used to go visit, they would say hi, asked what they
were learning, and then over an hour later, say good
bye to them without speaking any other words to them
inbetween. (This comes from both of my kids, and not
told to me by my husband.)
I believe that children need to be loved and nurtured,
and they don't get that from the grandparents that
live in town, and they know this. They are not
comfortable visiting over there, so why should they be
forced to go. My son has told me that he would rather
not see them, and as part of the unschooling life
style, shouldn't I honor his wishes?
I do understand how you feel. My dad's dad was an
alchoholic, and beat his kids all of the time. Later
in life, when I was forced to go for a visit, he did
some things that no one should have happen to them. I
am not trying to sound cold, but thank God he died
before my kids were born. He would never be allowed
to see my kids, ever.
It is part of my job to see that my kids are
comfortable in any situation, and this is one that
they are not. Their grandparents here may love them,
but they never show it. Just like being a parent is a
full time job, so is being a grandparent.
Thanks again for understanding Su.
--- Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Thank you. You have described my in-laws to a tee.
They aren't very affectionate at all. When my kids
used to go visit, they would say hi, asked what they
were learning, and then over an hour later, say good
bye to them without speaking any other words to them
inbetween. (This comes from both of my kids, and not
told to me by my husband.)
I believe that children need to be loved and nurtured,
and they don't get that from the grandparents that
live in town, and they know this. They are not
comfortable visiting over there, so why should they be
forced to go. My son has told me that he would rather
not see them, and as part of the unschooling life
style, shouldn't I honor his wishes?
I do understand how you feel. My dad's dad was an
alchoholic, and beat his kids all of the time. Later
in life, when I was forced to go for a visit, he did
some things that no one should have happen to them. I
am not trying to sound cold, but thank God he died
before my kids were born. He would never be allowed
to see my kids, ever.
It is part of my job to see that my kids are
comfortable in any situation, and this is one that
they are not. Their grandparents here may love them,
but they never show it. Just like being a parent is a
full time job, so is being a grandparent.
Thanks again for understanding Su.
--- Su Penn <supenn@...> wrote:
>Vanessa
> On May 29, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Kathleen Gehrke wrote:
>
> > I guess I am a bit confused why they would not
> want to see their
> > grandparents?
>
> I can jump in on this one even though I'm not the
> original poster! My
> older son doesn't much care to see my parents
> because my parents are
> not very affectionate. My father doesn't know how to
> give my older
> son Eric, who is six, time to warm up when we first
> arrive at their
> house, but immediately wants Eric to, say, hug, him.
> This has been
> the pattern since Eric was 2 or so:
>
> My dad: Give grandpa a hug!
>
> Eric stands quietly.
>
> My dad: Give me a hug!
>
> Eric scoots closer to me.
>
> My dad, yelling: ERIC! COME GIVE GRANDPA A HUG!
>
> Eric gets into my lap and stays there for an hour.
>
> Carl, 3, is much quicker to warm up, and has a more
> outgoing
> personality. In the last year, when we visit, my
> mother doesn't
> bother to hide her preference for Carl over Eric.
>
> My whole life, my parents treated me badly because I
> wasn't what they
> wanted in a daughter. Now they are increasingly
> indifferent to my
> kids, Eric especially, because he doesn't seem to
> fit some
> preconceived notion they have about what a grandson
> should be like.
>
> Neither of my parents is able to think of others,
> and put someone
> else's feelings ahead of their own. Not even small
> children's.
>
> Why wouldn't a kid want to see his grandparents?
> Because he's smart
> enough not to want to go where he is not valued and
> treated well.
>
>
> You can be attached to 20 sets of grandparents, or
> you can have
> > grandparents that you are not always thrilled with
> but you know love
> > you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
>
> How do you know they love you if they never treat
> you like they do? I
> recently read "The Five Love Languages for Children"
> because it was
> being discussed on AlwaysUnschooled. According to
> the authors, there
> are five "love languages": gifts, acts of service,
> quality time,
> physical touch, and words of affirmation. Amazingly,
> my parents
> managed not to speak any of them, while maintaining
> a facade that we
> were a successful, happy family. I do suspect they
> love me, or think
> they do, but it is a lot to ask of a child that she
> "know her
> grandparents love her" and accept them for who they
> are when they are
> not showing love in any meaningful way and do not
> accept her for who
> she is. I am in my 40s and only just getting the
> hang of this with my
> parents, as I develop more compassion for them and
> their own
> childhoods--if you look at the families they came
> from, full of
> alcoholism and violence, my parents are miracles for
> not passing
> those dysfunctions on. But they still fell far short
> of giving me and
> my brother the love and affirmation children need to
> thrive, and, as
> grandparents, they are materially generous but cold
> and not
> affectionate.
>
> Su
>
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Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Kathleen Gehrke"
<gehrkes@...> wrote:
find a mutally acceptable solution with the kids for getting
together, or for dad to be more comfortable with the kids' decision.
On another level, though, I don't think it matters so much *why*
they don't want to see their grandparents.
to spend time with, regardless of the degress of relationship. It
doesn't improve the relationship, and it harms the development of
autonomy and personal boundaries.
is an issue between her and her mil. The issue is that the *kids*
have decided they don't want to see these grandparents.
It can be really challenging for kids to visit extended family or
other adults who don't "get" unschooling and treat them
disrespectfully. Sometimes its possible to work out ways to connect
that are mutually respectful, but not always.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
<gehrkes@...> wrote:
> I guess I am a bit confused why they would not want to see theirI can see where this would be relevant if the grands were looking to
> grandparents?
find a mutally acceptable solution with the kids for getting
together, or for dad to be more comfortable with the kids' decision.
On another level, though, I don't think it matters so much *why*
they don't want to see their grandparents.
> you can havelove
> grandparents that you are not always thrilled with but you know
> you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.Right, but its not okay to *make* kids visit adults they don't want
to spend time with, regardless of the degress of relationship. It
doesn't improve the relationship, and it harms the development of
autonomy and personal boundaries.
> Both of my dil are beautiful girls whom I completely love. Theylet
> me love their children. They generously share them with me andlove
> me despite my faults.I haven't gotten the impression from the original poster that this
is an issue between her and her mil. The issue is that the *kids*
have decided they don't want to see these grandparents.
It can be really challenging for kids to visit extended family or
other adults who don't "get" unschooling and treat them
disrespectfully. Sometimes its possible to work out ways to connect
that are mutually respectful, but not always.
---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
Kathleen Gehrke
Vanessa,
I am not saying you are the evil dil at all. I am just trying to
share other perspectives.
My family is a mess too and one of the realizations that have
happened for me personally is that my kids are not emotionally
dependent on my folks or my dh folks. They are emotionally dependent
on us to give them the love, support and nuturing they need.
Anything they get from grandparents is a bonus.
The definition for a role as a grandparent come from us by some sort
of standard defined by society.
GRANDPARENTS go see everything there grandkids do
Grandparents bake cookies and love to have their grandkids over
Grandparents want to buy their grandkids lots of stuff
Grandparents want to take their grandkids for the weekend and love
to play board games with them.
Who set that definition?
I do not accept definitions that my kids need to do _______by this
date, or age. Why must I accept defitions of how my kids
grandparents are supposed to behave.
That does not mean I allow my children to be abused or mistreated by
anyone, including their grandparents.
My mom is very much not into being a grandma. She owns it and NEVER
wants to be responsible for kids. She was not thrilled about it when
she was my primary care giver. However she is a talented poet and
writer. When she visits I always ask her to bring her new poems.
They are full of social injustices and sometimes gut wrenchingly
beautiful.
The kids and I love to sit and have her recite for us. That is what
she gives us. That is it. She never remembers anyones birthday. She
does not want to send Christmas gifts.She never wants the kids to
visit or stay over. She loves her grandkids in her way. It was just
a process for me to accept that her way was not what I thought she
should be.
Year ago when my dad was alive he did not want my kids to call him
grandpa. He however was really into meditation. One day I asked if
he would teach us all to meditate in his style. My boys and I had
been talking about how cool it looked to watch him. He spent an hour
explaining meditation to us and helping us become centered. We
connected with him where he was at and my kids still talk about that
experience with warm memories. They also laugh at his lack of
willingness to be a grandpa.
I am once again sorry for your situation and hope it resolves itself
in a way that works for everyone.
I am also sorry if you felt attacked. I am not an attacker, but
often like to take the other perspective if it is a situation I can
see through different lenses.
Kathleen
I am not saying you are the evil dil at all. I am just trying to
share other perspectives.
My family is a mess too and one of the realizations that have
happened for me personally is that my kids are not emotionally
dependent on my folks or my dh folks. They are emotionally dependent
on us to give them the love, support and nuturing they need.
Anything they get from grandparents is a bonus.
The definition for a role as a grandparent come from us by some sort
of standard defined by society.
GRANDPARENTS go see everything there grandkids do
Grandparents bake cookies and love to have their grandkids over
Grandparents want to buy their grandkids lots of stuff
Grandparents want to take their grandkids for the weekend and love
to play board games with them.
Who set that definition?
I do not accept definitions that my kids need to do _______by this
date, or age. Why must I accept defitions of how my kids
grandparents are supposed to behave.
That does not mean I allow my children to be abused or mistreated by
anyone, including their grandparents.
My mom is very much not into being a grandma. She owns it and NEVER
wants to be responsible for kids. She was not thrilled about it when
she was my primary care giver. However she is a talented poet and
writer. When she visits I always ask her to bring her new poems.
They are full of social injustices and sometimes gut wrenchingly
beautiful.
The kids and I love to sit and have her recite for us. That is what
she gives us. That is it. She never remembers anyones birthday. She
does not want to send Christmas gifts.She never wants the kids to
visit or stay over. She loves her grandkids in her way. It was just
a process for me to accept that her way was not what I thought she
should be.
Year ago when my dad was alive he did not want my kids to call him
grandpa. He however was really into meditation. One day I asked if
he would teach us all to meditate in his style. My boys and I had
been talking about how cool it looked to watch him. He spent an hour
explaining meditation to us and helping us become centered. We
connected with him where he was at and my kids still talk about that
experience with warm memories. They also laugh at his lack of
willingness to be a grandpa.
I am once again sorry for your situation and hope it resolves itself
in a way that works for everyone.
I am also sorry if you felt attacked. I am not an attacker, but
often like to take the other perspective if it is a situation I can
see through different lenses.
Kathleen
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
you make lots of space. But I often find that there are way to work
stuff out so it works for everyone.
I don't think you should "make" kids do stuff either,but is there a
way that dh can not feel bad in this mix. Is there a middle ground
that the kids can control how much they visit and dh and
grandparents and mom all get what they need?
Does it have to be all or nothing?
Could dh invited his folks to stop by and say hi after he had
breakfast with him? Or are the kids completely opposed to having any
contact? If it was at their house the kids could say hi and still go
do their thing if they no longer wanted to visit.
Is it really okay with kids, mom and dh to totally stop the
relationship?
Kathleen
wrote:
>. Sometimes its possible to work out ways to connect
>
> that are mutually respectful, but not always.I agree Meredith. I think if folks are toxic or unkind to your kids
>
you make lots of space. But I often find that there are way to work
stuff out so it works for everyone.
I don't think you should "make" kids do stuff either,but is there a
way that dh can not feel bad in this mix. Is there a middle ground
that the kids can control how much they visit and dh and
grandparents and mom all get what they need?
Does it have to be all or nothing?
Could dh invited his folks to stop by and say hi after he had
breakfast with him? Or are the kids completely opposed to having any
contact? If it was at their house the kids could say hi and still go
do their thing if they no longer wanted to visit.
Is it really okay with kids, mom and dh to totally stop the
relationship?
Kathleen
Schafer Vanessa
Kathleen,
I don't feel attacked. So there is no problem there.
I didn't expect them to show up to every concert, but
when they chose one grandchild over the others, that
was a little hard for our family to take.
I once remember that my fil told my son, you are my
favorite grandson, when Jon isn't around. Luckily my
son was young and didn't catch it.
I don't expect anything out of my il, because they
give nothing. All my kids would like from them is to
show some kind of affection, and to show some interest
in them. They show neither.
My mil wants my daughter to be something she's not,
and can't accept her for who she is, which is the same
way with my son. My kids don't expect anything from
their grandparents here either. They are not
materialistic, they are not being raised that way, so
whether or not their grandparents buy them stuff is
not an important part of the relationship they once
had. My parents don't buy them lots of stuff, but
spend quality time with them, which is what my kids
want.
I understand your perspective on things with you being
a grandparent. Things are different in each family,
and right now the kids want nothing to do with their
grandparents that live close to us. When they are
ready, and feel like they want to, they can go see
them.
I also do not like labels or definitions. Life is
meant to be lived to fullest extent, and to be
enjoyed. Right now they are enjoying life, and having
fun, and have no added stress from their grandparents
here. All I want is for my kids to be happy and care
free.
Again, I am not mad at you, and don't think you were
calling me evil. You were just trying to show me a
different perspective, and I appreciate that.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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I don't feel attacked. So there is no problem there.
I didn't expect them to show up to every concert, but
when they chose one grandchild over the others, that
was a little hard for our family to take.
I once remember that my fil told my son, you are my
favorite grandson, when Jon isn't around. Luckily my
son was young and didn't catch it.
I don't expect anything out of my il, because they
give nothing. All my kids would like from them is to
show some kind of affection, and to show some interest
in them. They show neither.
My mil wants my daughter to be something she's not,
and can't accept her for who she is, which is the same
way with my son. My kids don't expect anything from
their grandparents here either. They are not
materialistic, they are not being raised that way, so
whether or not their grandparents buy them stuff is
not an important part of the relationship they once
had. My parents don't buy them lots of stuff, but
spend quality time with them, which is what my kids
want.
I understand your perspective on things with you being
a grandparent. Things are different in each family,
and right now the kids want nothing to do with their
grandparents that live close to us. When they are
ready, and feel like they want to, they can go see
them.
I also do not like labels or definitions. Life is
meant to be lived to fullest extent, and to be
enjoyed. Right now they are enjoying life, and having
fun, and have no added stress from their grandparents
here. All I want is for my kids to be happy and care
free.
Again, I am not mad at you, and don't think you were
calling me evil. You were just trying to show me a
different perspective, and I appreciate that.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
> Vanessa,Vanessa
>
> I am not saying you are the evil dil at all. I am
> just trying to
> share other perspectives.
>
> My family is a mess too and one of the realizations
> that have
> happened for me personally is that my kids are not
> emotionally
> dependent on my folks or my dh folks. They are
> emotionally dependent
> on us to give them the love, support and nuturing
> they need.
> Anything they get from grandparents is a bonus.
>
> The definition for a role as a grandparent come from
> us by some sort
> of standard defined by society.
>
> GRANDPARENTS go see everything there grandkids do
>
> Grandparents bake cookies and love to have their
> grandkids over
>
> Grandparents want to buy their grandkids lots of
> stuff
>
> Grandparents want to take their grandkids for the
> weekend and love
> to play board games with them.
>
> Who set that definition?
>
> I do not accept definitions that my kids need to do
> _______by this
> date, or age. Why must I accept defitions of how my
> kids
> grandparents are supposed to behave.
>
> That does not mean I allow my children to be abused
> or mistreated by
> anyone, including their grandparents.
>
> My mom is very much not into being a grandma. She
> owns it and NEVER
> wants to be responsible for kids. She was not
> thrilled about it when
> she was my primary care giver. However she is a
> talented poet and
> writer. When she visits I always ask her to bring
> her new poems.
> They are full of social injustices and sometimes gut
> wrenchingly
> beautiful.
>
> The kids and I love to sit and have her recite for
> us. That is what
> she gives us. That is it. She never remembers
> anyones birthday. She
> does not want to send Christmas gifts.She never
> wants the kids to
> visit or stay over. She loves her grandkids in her
> way. It was just
> a process for me to accept that her way was not what
> I thought she
> should be.
>
> Year ago when my dad was alive he did not want my
> kids to call him
> grandpa. He however was really into meditation. One
> day I asked if
> he would teach us all to meditate in his style. My
> boys and I had
> been talking about how cool it looked to watch him.
> He spent an hour
> explaining meditation to us and helping us become
> centered. We
> connected with him where he was at and my kids still
> talk about that
> experience with warm memories. They also laugh at
> his lack of
> willingness to be a grandpa.
>
> I am once again sorry for your situation and hope it
> resolves itself
> in a way that works for everyone.
>
> I am also sorry if you felt attacked. I am not an
> attacker, but
> often like to take the other perspective if it is a
> situation I can
> see through different lenses.
>
> Kathleen
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Schafer Vanessa
Kathleen,
I am not trying to make it all or nothing. My kids
are free to visit their grandparents anytime they
like, at their house. DH's parents are not allowed in
my house anymore, after taking years of mental abuse/
mean comments made in my own house, or things that
were said to my hubby about me. I want to feel
comfortable and safe in my own house, and I don't when
I'm here and so are they.
I don't like dh to be hurt, but at the same time, my
first and most important priority is my kids. If they
decide to go to breakfast, they want to stuff their
mouths full, so they don't have to talk to their
grandparents, which to me is unhealthy. It's better
to avoid the situation altogether.
I think it is up to the kids, if they want to visit
their grandparents or not. I think if they are given
time and space, they may want to see them on their
own. Until then, I will do what they need me to do,
and give them lots of love and understanding.
They don't need negativity in their life, and with
their grandparents here, that is what they get, when
they aren't getting nosey with the kids.
Again, if they want to visit their grandparents, I
have no problem with it. They just don't want to.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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I am not trying to make it all or nothing. My kids
are free to visit their grandparents anytime they
like, at their house. DH's parents are not allowed in
my house anymore, after taking years of mental abuse/
mean comments made in my own house, or things that
were said to my hubby about me. I want to feel
comfortable and safe in my own house, and I don't when
I'm here and so are they.
I don't like dh to be hurt, but at the same time, my
first and most important priority is my kids. If they
decide to go to breakfast, they want to stuff their
mouths full, so they don't have to talk to their
grandparents, which to me is unhealthy. It's better
to avoid the situation altogether.
I think it is up to the kids, if they want to visit
their grandparents or not. I think if they are given
time and space, they may want to see them on their
own. Until then, I will do what they need me to do,
and give them lots of love and understanding.
They don't need negativity in their life, and with
their grandparents here, that is what they get, when
they aren't getting nosey with the kids.
Again, if they want to visit their grandparents, I
have no problem with it. They just don't want to.
--- Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Meredith"Vanessa
> <meredith@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> . Sometimes its possible to work out ways to connect
>
> > that are mutually respectful, but not always.
>
> >
> I agree Meredith. I think if folks are toxic or
> unkind to your kids
> you make lots of space. But I often find that there
> are way to work
> stuff out so it works for everyone.
>
> I don't think you should "make" kids do stuff
> either,but is there a
> way that dh can not feel bad in this mix. Is there a
> middle ground
> that the kids can control how much they visit and dh
> and
> grandparents and mom all get what they need?
>
> Does it have to be all or nothing?
>
> Could dh invited his folks to stop by and say hi
> after he had
> breakfast with him? Or are the kids completely
> opposed to having any
> contact? If it was at their house the kids could say
> hi and still go
> do their thing if they no longer wanted to visit.
>
> Is it really okay with kids, mom and dh to totally
> stop the
> relationship?
>
> Kathleen
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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Schafer Vanessa
Meredith,
You are right. This is not an issue between me and my
mil. We haven't gotten along for years now, but I
will never stop the kids from seeing their
grandparents.
I won't make my kids see their grandparents. Whether
they want to or not, is totally up to them, and I have
to support their decision.
There is no connection or bond with this set of
grandparents. They have never made the effort, and
are always playing with other people's kids, and not
them (my kids). My kids are at the age now where they
have been noticing this for quite some time now, and
are not comfortable around them.
I did try for a while to get them involved with our
kids, but once they got out of the cutesy baby/toddler
stage, they weren't interested in them any more.
I don't see this situation getting any better. The
best thing I can do is support my kids, and let them
decide what they want to do. There is no show of love
and affection towards them, which is really sad,
because they never did anything to deserve this. It's
not our problem, it is their's, and they are missing
out on two really teriffic kids.
Thanks for understanding Meredith. It is hard, but I
don't expect my kids to do things, that I wouldn't do.
I know there is a difference because I am an adult
and they are kids, but I want them to enjoy life, and
not worry about adult things.
Whether or not there is a relationship between them
and the grandparents that live near us is up to them.
I won't force them into anything, it will only
backfire.
--- Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
You are right. This is not an issue between me and my
mil. We haven't gotten along for years now, but I
will never stop the kids from seeing their
grandparents.
I won't make my kids see their grandparents. Whether
they want to or not, is totally up to them, and I have
to support their decision.
There is no connection or bond with this set of
grandparents. They have never made the effort, and
are always playing with other people's kids, and not
them (my kids). My kids are at the age now where they
have been noticing this for quite some time now, and
are not comfortable around them.
I did try for a while to get them involved with our
kids, but once they got out of the cutesy baby/toddler
stage, they weren't interested in them any more.
I don't see this situation getting any better. The
best thing I can do is support my kids, and let them
decide what they want to do. There is no show of love
and affection towards them, which is really sad,
because they never did anything to deserve this. It's
not our problem, it is their's, and they are missing
out on two really teriffic kids.
Thanks for understanding Meredith. It is hard, but I
don't expect my kids to do things, that I wouldn't do.
I know there is a difference because I am an adult
and they are kids, but I want them to enjoy life, and
not worry about adult things.
Whether or not there is a relationship between them
and the grandparents that live near us is up to them.
I won't force them into anything, it will only
backfire.
--- Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "KathleenVanessa
> Gehrke"
> <gehrkes@...> wrote:
> > I guess I am a bit confused why they would not
> want to see their
> > grandparents?
>
> I can see where this would be relevant if the grands
> were looking to
> find a mutally acceptable solution with the kids for
> getting
> together, or for dad to be more comfortable with the
> kids' decision.
>
> On another level, though, I don't think it matters
> so much *why*
> they don't want to see their grandparents.
>
> > you can have
> > grandparents that you are not always thrilled with
> but you know
> love
> > you and are just who they are.It is not a contest.
>
> Right, but its not okay to *make* kids visit adults
> they don't want
> to spend time with, regardless of the degress of
> relationship. It
> doesn't improve the relationship, and it harms the
> development of
> autonomy and personal boundaries.
>
> > Both of my dil are beautiful girls whom I
> completely love. They
> let
> > me love their children. They generously share them
> with me and
> love
> > me despite my faults.
>
> I haven't gotten the impression from the original
> poster that this
> is an issue between her and her mil. The issue is
> that the *kids*
> have decided they don't want to see these
> grandparents.
>
> It can be really challenging for kids to visit
> extended family or
> other adults who don't "get" unschooling and treat
> them
> disrespectfully. Sometimes its possible to work out
> ways to connect
> that are mutually respectful, but not always.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
nrskay
My problem is kind of unique. I'm the grandma, but I'm also the
mother of an unschooling 13yo.
Two marriages, two sets of children. My oldest son is married and
they have 2 kids (7yo & 6yo). both grandchildren attend a very
prestigeous private school and are pushed into sports, ballet, etc.
My grandkids love to come over because they can eat what they want, go
to bed when they are tired, etc.
They spent last week with us in Palm Springs. We had such a blast. At
the end of the week my grandson told me he wanted to come live with us
because we don't yell.
My problem is my DIL, she is very concerned about our 13yo. Many
times she has taken my dd out for lunch and told her she is missing
out on all kinds of "stuff" by not going to school. In fact this past
year has been a real struggle with dil. Elizabeth has made comments
about maybe wanting to attend hs, because she doesn't want to miss out.
I have actually sat down and informed my dil that she needs to keep
her opinion to herself. But, my dd looks up to my dil who is 30 yo.
I'm 53 and out of touch. DIL also denies that she is trying to
interfere, but dd has told me differently.
DIL has even influenced my grandkids, they have on a few occasions
said things like "oh that's right Elizabeth doesn't do or go to
school" and this is in a very condesending tone.
I have the book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook" and when Elizabeth
comes to me and says she really wants to go to high school, I'll ask
her to please read the book first and then if she still feels she must
attend HS, then I have no choice but to honor that choice.
I feel like I am on a tight rope. I need to keep things ok with dil
so I can see my beautiful grandchildren, but my dd's priorities are
first. Oh and my dh is very upset by dil's interference. My son just
tells his wife to keep her mouth shut.
Anyway, thats my situation
Kay
mother of an unschooling 13yo.
Two marriages, two sets of children. My oldest son is married and
they have 2 kids (7yo & 6yo). both grandchildren attend a very
prestigeous private school and are pushed into sports, ballet, etc.
My grandkids love to come over because they can eat what they want, go
to bed when they are tired, etc.
They spent last week with us in Palm Springs. We had such a blast. At
the end of the week my grandson told me he wanted to come live with us
because we don't yell.
My problem is my DIL, she is very concerned about our 13yo. Many
times she has taken my dd out for lunch and told her she is missing
out on all kinds of "stuff" by not going to school. In fact this past
year has been a real struggle with dil. Elizabeth has made comments
about maybe wanting to attend hs, because she doesn't want to miss out.
I have actually sat down and informed my dil that she needs to keep
her opinion to herself. But, my dd looks up to my dil who is 30 yo.
I'm 53 and out of touch. DIL also denies that she is trying to
interfere, but dd has told me differently.
DIL has even influenced my grandkids, they have on a few occasions
said things like "oh that's right Elizabeth doesn't do or go to
school" and this is in a very condesending tone.
I have the book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook" and when Elizabeth
comes to me and says she really wants to go to high school, I'll ask
her to please read the book first and then if she still feels she must
attend HS, then I have no choice but to honor that choice.
I feel like I am on a tight rope. I need to keep things ok with dil
so I can see my beautiful grandchildren, but my dd's priorities are
first. Oh and my dh is very upset by dil's interference. My son just
tells his wife to keep her mouth shut.
Anyway, thats my situation
Kay
Schafer Vanessa
I feel for you. I have had similar problems, but my
kids don't feel like they are missing out. They are
almost 10 and 11.
I think what you might want to do is ask your 13yo
what she feels she's missing out on. I've been asked
by several family members, what about the prom, how
will they go to college, etc.
I don't think it's up to your dil to tell your 13yo
that she's missing out on things. If your daughter is
happy, there is no problem, and it sounds like she is.
If public school works for your grandchildren, then
that's ok. My kids had a horrible time in public
school, and I wish I would've pulled them out sooner.
Just because she doesn't go to school, doesn't mean
she is learning. There is so much out there in the
world to learn, and to do. You don't get that from
sitting behind a desk for 6-8 hours a day, learning a
little of this and that, and not anything interesting.
I am with you, and I can see why it would upset your
husband too. I've been through high school, and she's
not missing anything. No peer pressure, drugs, bombs,
threats, etc. My son actually had a death threat
against him, and he's only 11.
Hope this helps some. I think your dil needs to
encourage your 13 yo, not tell her what she feels your
daughter is missing.
Take care, and let me know how things go.
--- nrskay <k_bird@...> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
kids don't feel like they are missing out. They are
almost 10 and 11.
I think what you might want to do is ask your 13yo
what she feels she's missing out on. I've been asked
by several family members, what about the prom, how
will they go to college, etc.
I don't think it's up to your dil to tell your 13yo
that she's missing out on things. If your daughter is
happy, there is no problem, and it sounds like she is.
If public school works for your grandchildren, then
that's ok. My kids had a horrible time in public
school, and I wish I would've pulled them out sooner.
Just because she doesn't go to school, doesn't mean
she is learning. There is so much out there in the
world to learn, and to do. You don't get that from
sitting behind a desk for 6-8 hours a day, learning a
little of this and that, and not anything interesting.
I am with you, and I can see why it would upset your
husband too. I've been through high school, and she's
not missing anything. No peer pressure, drugs, bombs,
threats, etc. My son actually had a death threat
against him, and he's only 11.
Hope this helps some. I think your dil needs to
encourage your 13 yo, not tell her what she feels your
daughter is missing.
Take care, and let me know how things go.
--- nrskay <k_bird@...> wrote:
> My problem is kind of unique. I'm the grandma, butVanessa
> I'm also the
> mother of an unschooling 13yo.
>
> Two marriages, two sets of children. My oldest son
> is married and
> they have 2 kids (7yo & 6yo). both grandchildren
> attend a very
> prestigeous private school and are pushed into
> sports, ballet, etc.
> My grandkids love to come over because they can eat
> what they want, go
> to bed when they are tired, etc.
>
> They spent last week with us in Palm Springs. We
> had such a blast. At
> the end of the week my grandson told me he wanted to
> come live with us
> because we don't yell.
>
> My problem is my DIL, she is very concerned about
> our 13yo. Many
> times she has taken my dd out for lunch and told her
> she is missing
> out on all kinds of "stuff" by not going to school.
> In fact this past
> year has been a real struggle with dil. Elizabeth
> has made comments
> about maybe wanting to attend hs, because she
> doesn't want to miss out.
>
> I have actually sat down and informed my dil that
> she needs to keep
> her opinion to herself. But, my dd looks up to my
> dil who is 30 yo.
> I'm 53 and out of touch. DIL also denies that she
> is trying to
> interfere, but dd has told me differently.
>
> DIL has even influenced my grandkids, they have on a
> few occasions
> said things like "oh that's right Elizabeth doesn't
> do or go to
> school" and this is in a very condesending tone.
>
> I have the book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook"
> and when Elizabeth
> comes to me and says she really wants to go to high
> school, I'll ask
> her to please read the book first and then if she
> still feels she must
> attend HS, then I have no choice but to honor that
> choice.
>
> I feel like I am on a tight rope. I need to keep
> things ok with dil
> so I can see my beautiful grandchildren, but my dd's
> priorities are
> first. Oh and my dh is very upset by dil's
> interference. My son just
> tells his wife to keep her mouth shut.
>
> Anyway, thats my situation
> Kay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Lisa
We have issues with my FIL along these lines... mostly that he expects
them to be thrilled to see him when he has been abusive physically,
verbally and emotionally to our entire family. They don't trust him
and it's not likely to change just because now and then he shows up
and wants them to be thrilled to see him or that he sends a gift
(suddenly after 15 plus years of barely acknowledging holidays or our
existence he's santa claus... again he is giving things and not
himself) When he visits he spends his time telling the children how
they can improve themselves and all the things that we are doing wrong
as parents. We have had lengthy periods of no contact with him
because he is just not a "safe" person. My kids say they feel
"icky" when he is around .... my oldest says she is sure it must be
how kids feel when someone molests them. I have tried many times
over the years to foster some sort of relationship, I am respectful of
him as a person but have had to make it clear that he will be asked to
leave if his presence becomes harmful. Typically he shows up, my
kids say hello and then disappear only showing up again to say good
bye when he leaves. I can't MAKE him love us no matter how much my
husband wants him to and it's heartbreaking. I feel a certain
responsibility to keep my kids safe...physically and emotionally so I
have to limit the contact with this person. It's heartbreaking that
this sad, lonely, widowed man is missing out on a relationship with
his only grandchildren because he's chosen to be selfish over the
years with his time and attention.
Lisa B
them to be thrilled to see him when he has been abusive physically,
verbally and emotionally to our entire family. They don't trust him
and it's not likely to change just because now and then he shows up
and wants them to be thrilled to see him or that he sends a gift
(suddenly after 15 plus years of barely acknowledging holidays or our
existence he's santa claus... again he is giving things and not
himself) When he visits he spends his time telling the children how
they can improve themselves and all the things that we are doing wrong
as parents. We have had lengthy periods of no contact with him
because he is just not a "safe" person. My kids say they feel
"icky" when he is around .... my oldest says she is sure it must be
how kids feel when someone molests them. I have tried many times
over the years to foster some sort of relationship, I am respectful of
him as a person but have had to make it clear that he will be asked to
leave if his presence becomes harmful. Typically he shows up, my
kids say hello and then disappear only showing up again to say good
bye when he leaves. I can't MAKE him love us no matter how much my
husband wants him to and it's heartbreaking. I feel a certain
responsibility to keep my kids safe...physically and emotionally so I
have to limit the contact with this person. It's heartbreaking that
this sad, lonely, widowed man is missing out on a relationship with
his only grandchildren because he's chosen to be selfish over the
years with his time and attention.
Lisa B
> Su,
>
> Thank you. You have described my in-laws to a tee.
> They aren't very affectionate at all. When my kids
> used to go visit, they would say hi, asked what they
> were learning, and then over an hour later, say good
> bye to them without speaking any other words to them
> inbetween. (This comes from both of my kids, and not
> told to me by my husband.)
>
>
[email protected]
This conversation reminds me of something I read of few years ago about
grandparents by Jan Hunt of The Natural Child Project. It seems that in our
culture many grandparents think that grandchildren should automatically respect
the grandparents. Jan believes that the children should gain the respect of
the children.
Why would a grandchild want to spend time with a grandparent who does not
put time or effort into that relationship? Why would anyone want to be in a
relationship where the other party does not seem interested. It does not mean
that the grandparent has to go to every baseball game, etc. But, if they do
not put in any effort, then of course a free child is aware enough to realize
that they deserve to have a relationship that is a two way street. They
should not have to be around a grandparent that thinks that the child has to be
around them just because they are the grandparent. I certainly would not
want my child to be in any relationship (now or as an adult) where they did not
feel that they could be their authentic selves and have the other party
interested in them.
Is it possible that the dh in this case may still be struggling with
pleasing his parents, and doing what they demand, whether or not he authentically
wants to do it. If he really does want to be with his parents, and the
children do not; then have him go and the children stay. That is a compromise in my
eyes. The dh is getting his needs met to see his parents. The children are
getting there needs met of not seeing the grandparents. Pushing one into
seeing someone that they do not want to see, will usually have the reverse
effect: they will want to see that person even less.
Maybe the suggestion of having the il over to the grandchildrens' house
would work. That would have to be decided by all the family members, adults and
children alike.
Not all grandparents want to love their grandchildren. Some do, like one of
the posters here. Many don't. Some see it as a duty. Others see it as the
*childrens* duty to respect and love them, when they do nothing for the
children. As in all relationships, it should be a give and take, with *mutual*
respect, regardless of age.
Warmly,
Cynthia
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grandparents by Jan Hunt of The Natural Child Project. It seems that in our
culture many grandparents think that grandchildren should automatically respect
the grandparents. Jan believes that the children should gain the respect of
the children.
Why would a grandchild want to spend time with a grandparent who does not
put time or effort into that relationship? Why would anyone want to be in a
relationship where the other party does not seem interested. It does not mean
that the grandparent has to go to every baseball game, etc. But, if they do
not put in any effort, then of course a free child is aware enough to realize
that they deserve to have a relationship that is a two way street. They
should not have to be around a grandparent that thinks that the child has to be
around them just because they are the grandparent. I certainly would not
want my child to be in any relationship (now or as an adult) where they did not
feel that they could be their authentic selves and have the other party
interested in them.
Is it possible that the dh in this case may still be struggling with
pleasing his parents, and doing what they demand, whether or not he authentically
wants to do it. If he really does want to be with his parents, and the
children do not; then have him go and the children stay. That is a compromise in my
eyes. The dh is getting his needs met to see his parents. The children are
getting there needs met of not seeing the grandparents. Pushing one into
seeing someone that they do not want to see, will usually have the reverse
effect: they will want to see that person even less.
Maybe the suggestion of having the il over to the grandchildrens' house
would work. That would have to be decided by all the family members, adults and
children alike.
Not all grandparents want to love their grandchildren. Some do, like one of
the posters here. Many don't. Some see it as a duty. Others see it as the
*childrens* duty to respect and love them, when they do nothing for the
children. As in all relationships, it should be a give and take, with *mutual*
respect, regardless of age.
Warmly,
Cynthia
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schafer Vanessa
Cynthia,
You could be right. Maybe dh feels the need to go see
his parents. The kids really don't want to see them,
and I stand by their decision.
I have always told dh he can visit his parents any
time he would like, at their house. They are not
allowed in my house for the nasty comments they have
made to me in front of my kids about the way our house
looks (it's not white glove, but it is also not messy,
either.) or that I should do this or that with the
kids. Nothing I ever do is right. They constantly
criticize, and it's not healthy for my kids or for me.
Dh probably doesn't see this, because he is used to
it, or because of the fact that they always make the
comments when he is not around.
Right now my kids are very comfortable not seeing
their grandparents that live close, and would rather
see mine that are 550 miles away. Not because they
spend money on them (they are both retired and are on
limited income), but because they spend quality time
with them, by having campfires, playing games,
watching movies, etc. The grandparents that are here,
do none of that.
I have told dh several times that if he pushed the
kids into visiting his parents it will only backfire,
and will do more harm than good. I think if he
doesn't push them, it might take some time, but they
may come around on their own. If they don't, than
that's ok too.
I do know that dh had a talk with his brother, and
told him that they (his parents) had their chance, and
blew it when they paid more attention to other peoples
kids, and not ours. So he knows the kids have
problems with his parents, but I think he just doesn't
want to accept it.
They ( il) constantly pick at the kids and will tell
dd to sit up there and eat (she's a slow eater, and
gets full easier than ds), and will make comments
about ds being over weight, and things like that. All
of the boys on dh's side of the family are built big.
Mil has no daughters, only 3 sons. I have the only
granddaughter in this side of the family. The sad
part is that they don't know my kids, and have never
taken the time to get to know them.
My kids have adjusted well, and are very comfortable
with who they are, and what they are doing. They know
that they are loved, and very well taken care of with
all of the support and nurturing they need from me and
dh.
Thanks again.
--- amazzingpet@... wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
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You could be right. Maybe dh feels the need to go see
his parents. The kids really don't want to see them,
and I stand by their decision.
I have always told dh he can visit his parents any
time he would like, at their house. They are not
allowed in my house for the nasty comments they have
made to me in front of my kids about the way our house
looks (it's not white glove, but it is also not messy,
either.) or that I should do this or that with the
kids. Nothing I ever do is right. They constantly
criticize, and it's not healthy for my kids or for me.
Dh probably doesn't see this, because he is used to
it, or because of the fact that they always make the
comments when he is not around.
Right now my kids are very comfortable not seeing
their grandparents that live close, and would rather
see mine that are 550 miles away. Not because they
spend money on them (they are both retired and are on
limited income), but because they spend quality time
with them, by having campfires, playing games,
watching movies, etc. The grandparents that are here,
do none of that.
I have told dh several times that if he pushed the
kids into visiting his parents it will only backfire,
and will do more harm than good. I think if he
doesn't push them, it might take some time, but they
may come around on their own. If they don't, than
that's ok too.
I do know that dh had a talk with his brother, and
told him that they (his parents) had their chance, and
blew it when they paid more attention to other peoples
kids, and not ours. So he knows the kids have
problems with his parents, but I think he just doesn't
want to accept it.
They ( il) constantly pick at the kids and will tell
dd to sit up there and eat (she's a slow eater, and
gets full easier than ds), and will make comments
about ds being over weight, and things like that. All
of the boys on dh's side of the family are built big.
Mil has no daughters, only 3 sons. I have the only
granddaughter in this side of the family. The sad
part is that they don't know my kids, and have never
taken the time to get to know them.
My kids have adjusted well, and are very comfortable
with who they are, and what they are doing. They know
that they are loved, and very well taken care of with
all of the support and nurturing they need from me and
dh.
Thanks again.
--- amazzingpet@... wrote:
> This conversation reminds me of something I read ofVanessa
> few years ago about
> grandparents by Jan Hunt of The Natural Child
> Project. It seems that in our
> culture many grandparents think that grandchildren
> should automatically respect
> the grandparents. Jan believes that the children
> should gain the respect of
> the children.
>
> Why would a grandchild want to spend time with a
> grandparent who does not
> put time or effort into that relationship? Why
> would anyone want to be in a
> relationship where the other party does not seem
> interested. It does not mean
> that the grandparent has to go to every baseball
> game, etc. But, if they do
> not put in any effort, then of course a free child
> is aware enough to realize
> that they deserve to have a relationship that is a
> two way street. They
> should not have to be around a grandparent that
> thinks that the child has to be
> around them just because they are the grandparent.
> I certainly would not
> want my child to be in any relationship (now or as
> an adult) where they did not
> feel that they could be their authentic selves and
> have the other party
> interested in them.
>
> Is it possible that the dh in this case may still be
> struggling with
> pleasing his parents, and doing what they demand,
> whether or not he authentically
> wants to do it. If he really does want to be with
> his parents, and the
> children do not; then have him go and the children
> stay. That is a compromise in my
> eyes. The dh is getting his needs met to see his
> parents. The children are
> getting there needs met of not seeing the
> grandparents. Pushing one into
> seeing someone that they do not want to see, will
> usually have the reverse
> effect: they will want to see that person even
> less.
>
> Maybe the suggestion of having the il over to the
> grandchildrens' house
> would work. That would have to be decided by all
> the family members, adults and
> children alike.
>
> Not all grandparents want to love their
> grandchildren. Some do, like one of
> the posters here. Many don't. Some see it as a
> duty. Others see it as the
> *childrens* duty to respect and love them, when they
> do nothing for the
> children. As in all relationships, it should be a
> give and take, with *mutual*
> respect, regardless of age.
>
> Warmly,
> Cynthia
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's
> free at http://www.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Schafer Vanessa <psychomom95@...>
I have told dh several times that if he pushed the
kids into visiting his parents it will only backfire,
and will do more harm than good. I think if he
doesn't push them, it might take some time, but they
may come around on their own. If they don't, than
that's ok too.
-=-=-=-=-
My mother is good with babies and very little children. But as soon as
they have her number, she can't handle it. She sees them as
manipulative when they don't do as she says or when they want something
she's not ready or doesn't want to give them.
I've always given both boys a choice on whether to visit her or not.
They're now 19 and 11.
And I've told her point blank that I *WILL* keep the boys from her if
she cannot behave around them. My boys' physical and emotional health
is far more important to me than her need to see and spend time with
them. I *have* kept them away from her for months at a time (and we
llive in the same city) until she's ready to "play nice."
What's happened is that she's now (usually) nice to the boys. But more
importantly, my boys are nice to her. Given the *choice* to be with her
or not has empowered them to be kinder because they understand they
don't *have* to be there---it's their *choice*---and they certainly can
choose to be somewhere else. If they choose to be with *her*---well,
they *want* to be there, and they make the best of it. That's better
for *all* of them (us!).
I feel sure that if we had forced them to spend time with her, they
would have resented her and us and eventually refused to spend *any*
time with her at all.
I think the older they get, the more they can handle difficult people.
But when they're too little to stand up to her (or drive away!), the
more it's *my* resposibility to protect them.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: Schafer Vanessa <psychomom95@...>
I have told dh several times that if he pushed the
kids into visiting his parents it will only backfire,
and will do more harm than good. I think if he
doesn't push them, it might take some time, but they
may come around on their own. If they don't, than
that's ok too.
-=-=-=-=-
My mother is good with babies and very little children. But as soon as
they have her number, she can't handle it. She sees them as
manipulative when they don't do as she says or when they want something
she's not ready or doesn't want to give them.
I've always given both boys a choice on whether to visit her or not.
They're now 19 and 11.
And I've told her point blank that I *WILL* keep the boys from her if
she cannot behave around them. My boys' physical and emotional health
is far more important to me than her need to see and spend time with
them. I *have* kept them away from her for months at a time (and we
llive in the same city) until she's ready to "play nice."
What's happened is that she's now (usually) nice to the boys. But more
importantly, my boys are nice to her. Given the *choice* to be with her
or not has empowered them to be kinder because they understand they
don't *have* to be there---it's their *choice*---and they certainly can
choose to be somewhere else. If they choose to be with *her*---well,
they *want* to be there, and they make the best of it. That's better
for *all* of them (us!).
I feel sure that if we had forced them to spend time with her, they
would have resented her and us and eventually refused to spend *any*
time with her at all.
I think the older they get, the more they can handle difficult people.
But when they're too little to stand up to her (or drive away!), the
more it's *my* resposibility to protect them.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
dare2dream3195
Hi, I'm a lurker here trying to learn as much as I possibly can. I
admit that I have not totally embraced the freedom for children that
many of you espouse. I couldn't help but add my 2 cents here.
I am a single mom and have at times stuggled with my relationship
and my daughter's relationship with my mom. What I have learned in
the process is
1 - Safety is first. ALWAYS. No compromising on this one.
2 - Validate my daughter's feelings and my mom's. "Wow. It really
is frustrating when Grandma is constantly telling you to do things.
I remember how tough she was when I was growing up." "Gee, Mom, I
can see how it hurts you that she's not happy to see you even though
you bought her a gift." - NO BUTs at this point. Let them just feel
like you see their point.
3 - Eventually teach. Don't make excuses or argue. Teach. When your
grandparent is ready give small concise instructions on how to make
things work better. Remember that they may still choose to blame and
complain rather than learn but try to give them small concise things
in a friendly non-judgemental way to help the relationship. A big
one for my daughter was telling my mom not to lecture. I briefly
explained that since my daughter is entering those teenage years she
prefers brief explanations so please try to keep instructions to 5-10
words. I had to tell my mom 50 times or so (and smile every time)
but she is doing a lot better.
4 - Teach your kids too. Once again try not to be judgemental or make
excuses. Think about it for a moment. How would you explain both
sides of any major war? How would you explain various world
religions? Is there a RIGHT and a WRONG or do they both have good
and bad points? Try to see the point of view that the grandparents
are coming from. They probably came from a generation in which
adults (especially older adults) were given respect because they were
older than you. Age earned respect. Also, many feel that their
physical abuse is ok because it's not as bad as what they grew up
with. When my grandparents called my mom had to run to answer or she
was in trouble and during that time period that was 'normal'. I made
a CHOICE to not raise my child the way I was raised but my mom wasn't
part of that choice and doesn't know another way. She is coming
around. Explaining these ideas and motivations to kids honestly and
exposing them for what they are allows kids the power to understand
and choose anger or compassion.
These are the things that have made my family able to live with one
another. Yes, we 3 live together. Some days I feel like I have 2
children and my daughter is the oldest but most of the time it
works. My mom has become handicapped and we have gone from not
speaking to a fairly good realtionship where we live together and I
take care of the physical needs and she takes care of the financial
needs. She is even teaching my daughter to cross-stitch (MIRACLE!)
with only a little bit of fighting.
Amy
admit that I have not totally embraced the freedom for children that
many of you espouse. I couldn't help but add my 2 cents here.
I am a single mom and have at times stuggled with my relationship
and my daughter's relationship with my mom. What I have learned in
the process is
1 - Safety is first. ALWAYS. No compromising on this one.
2 - Validate my daughter's feelings and my mom's. "Wow. It really
is frustrating when Grandma is constantly telling you to do things.
I remember how tough she was when I was growing up." "Gee, Mom, I
can see how it hurts you that she's not happy to see you even though
you bought her a gift." - NO BUTs at this point. Let them just feel
like you see their point.
3 - Eventually teach. Don't make excuses or argue. Teach. When your
grandparent is ready give small concise instructions on how to make
things work better. Remember that they may still choose to blame and
complain rather than learn but try to give them small concise things
in a friendly non-judgemental way to help the relationship. A big
one for my daughter was telling my mom not to lecture. I briefly
explained that since my daughter is entering those teenage years she
prefers brief explanations so please try to keep instructions to 5-10
words. I had to tell my mom 50 times or so (and smile every time)
but she is doing a lot better.
4 - Teach your kids too. Once again try not to be judgemental or make
excuses. Think about it for a moment. How would you explain both
sides of any major war? How would you explain various world
religions? Is there a RIGHT and a WRONG or do they both have good
and bad points? Try to see the point of view that the grandparents
are coming from. They probably came from a generation in which
adults (especially older adults) were given respect because they were
older than you. Age earned respect. Also, many feel that their
physical abuse is ok because it's not as bad as what they grew up
with. When my grandparents called my mom had to run to answer or she
was in trouble and during that time period that was 'normal'. I made
a CHOICE to not raise my child the way I was raised but my mom wasn't
part of that choice and doesn't know another way. She is coming
around. Explaining these ideas and motivations to kids honestly and
exposing them for what they are allows kids the power to understand
and choose anger or compassion.
These are the things that have made my family able to live with one
another. Yes, we 3 live together. Some days I feel like I have 2
children and my daughter is the oldest but most of the time it
works. My mom has become handicapped and we have gone from not
speaking to a fairly good realtionship where we live together and I
take care of the physical needs and she takes care of the financial
needs. She is even teaching my daughter to cross-stitch (MIRACLE!)
with only a little bit of fighting.
Amy