Fetteroll

On May 18, 2007, at 12:35 AM, Kendrah Nilsestuen wrote:

> If an US group really values what Gatto
> has to say then they couldn't possibly support television because he
> is so against it.

Unschooling isn't based on what Gatto had to say. It's more accurate
to say that our ideas on school overlap.

Unschooling isn't even based on John Holt. He just observed
children's natural ability to learn and wrote about it. At first he
noticed natural learning in the context of school hoping to use that
to make schools better places to learn. But the more he observed, the
more he realized that school interfered with our natural abilities
and prevented kids from learning.

Unschooling is based on human's natural ability to learn. John Holt
said a lot of things about it that have withstood the test of time.
Which makes him brilliant :-) But we don't unschool based on what he
said but based on what happens with real kids who are given the
freedom and support to learn from living life.

Unschoolers have been carrying on with Holt's observations. I don't
think John Holt much liked TV either. I've read a quote about it but
I can't remember what it was. Perhaps TV (back in the 60s) felt more
akin to school -- watching and listening like in school rather than
doing -- than living life. (That's just a guess from a vague memory.)

But we've had collective years more experience with natural learning
than John Holt. It's not that we've blindly said TV is good. It's
that we've seen how TV incorporates into a full unschooling life and
it doesn't have the effects that people who fear it say it will. We
speak from experience and critical examination, not uncritical
conviction.

If he'd like to list Gatto's objections, we can tell him what really
happens when TV is part of kids' freedom.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~But I'm
curious did my dh misunderstand where John Gatto stood on the issue?~~

John Gatto is NOT an unschooling proponet. And why on earth would an
author have more power to help you make a decision than the very real
people living right in the home with you sharing THEIR preferences! If
someone is willing to get rid of a tv based on a book, rather than
what the entire family can agree on, then that makes me sad.
I'd be pretty pissed if my dh tried to run rough-shod over me like that.

John Gatto is an interesting speaker and writer. He gives really good
information about how damaging schools are. Great stuff for people
starting out that need to see that learning happens outside of a
school building. He and other writers (you can find anyone to support
any view in this world) are sometimes very anti-tv...which makes sense
for their generation.

I'll be speaking at a conference this fall where Gatto will be
speaking, along with another gentleman whose writing I enjoy expect
for his strong anti-tv and video game stance. I can take what is
intersting and ignore what doesn't work. I have no desire to limit my
children's worlds based on someone elses point of view. I'll be
speaking in favor of not limiting those very things. I'm sure it will
lead to some interesting discussions.:)

I don't find the anti-tv/video games arguements compelling any longer.
I have four smart, curious, interesting and interested children living
with me that use those mediums extensively and have suffered NO ill
effects. That's proof for me.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: carebear-79@...

Our unschooling journey started after reading Jan Hunt's The Natural
Child. In her book she references John Holt and John Taylor Gatto. I
read the quotes from both of these men to my husband. I was drawn to
Holt, so I read How Children Learn. My husband was interested in
reading Gatto so he read Dumbing Us Down, A Different Kind Of Teacher
and The Underground History of American Education. Since I've never
read Gatto I hoping some here have and can give me some answers. My
husband LOVED Gatto's books. From what I understand John Gatto (by
what my dh and others who have read him say) isn't so much a
proponent of US as much as he has a despise for public school,
therefore given more creditability to home schooling or unschooling.
So whenever I try to bring up the valid points about television with
my dh he shuts off. He counters that he can't understand how an US
group can be so okay with TV. If an US group really values what Gatto
has to say then they couldn't possibly support television because he
is so against it. In fact it was after he read Gatto's books that we
moved our TV downstairs and then finally sold it for good. I'm not
sad we sold the TV, I never had time to watch it anyway. But I'm
curious did my dh misunderstand where John Gatto stood on the issue?

-=-=-==-


Gatto's books appeal to men a LOT. But Gatto's experience is with
schooled children ONLY.

He has no experience with mindfully parented, unschooled children. So
he has a difference point of view altogether.

Also, he's my dad's age. That generation has a really hard time with
TV. Books are the be-all-end-all for that generation. Radio was
considered avant-garde! <g>

It's really important to look at where he's coming from. Not the same
place that we are, for sure!

I value a lot of what he has to say, but he has no experience with
unschooling---so understand that he has his limits.

But you might want to suggest that your husband NOT shut off from
learning. That's a *very* schoolish mentality. <g>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org










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