jnaisi

I want to unschool my son Nathaniel. I have many reasons but
primarily it is because the school he attends now failed him. He is
also Autistic, Bipolar, ADD/ADHD and has issues with anxiety. The
school is offering him no services despite my requests. I am
attempting to get him services again per the request of his behavioral
specialist. He feels Nate would benefit tremendously in a school
setting socially with the help of a one to one aid.. Currently he is a
social recluse and the victim of hazing and bullying.

I most likely will still choose to do the unschooling because of the
difficulty and basic overall attitude I am getting from the school. I
don't think I want my child to be in a school where they didn't want
to help him be successful. My son's average is a U (F) this entire
school year. They do not seem to care.

I believe Nate will be exremely successful with video learning. He
retains atleast 95% of what he sees in movies. Does anyone know where
I can find lessons that are set to a movie or video type setting?

Ren Allen

~~I believe Nate will be exremely successful with video learning. He
retains atleast 95% of what he sees in movies. Does anyone know where
I can find lessons that are set to a movie or video type setting?~~

How about forgetting about lessons or trying to get him to learn? He's
learning every day that he's alive.

If you tell us the kind of things he's interested in, we could
probably come up with some great movie suggestions....but it makes me
cringe to think of video lessons. Icky.

How about movies just for the joy of watching movies together?

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Robyn Bentley

When I said video learning I meant documentaries. I didn't mean someone
teaching lessons via video. I just meant instead of reading about history,
science or something he could watch a video (documentary).

We don't have any type of cable or satellite. We havent had this for 7
years.

My husband and I have considered getting satellite for The History Channel
and the like.

I have another question. My son due to his autism is a literal person. He
has difficult (extreme) reading for content, understanding metaphors, humor
etc. Does anyone have any suggestions to help me with that? I dont mind
discussing things with him. I just need a little push in the right
direction to find what might be helpful to him.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~When I said video learning I meant documentaries. I didn't mean
someone teaching lessons via video. I just meant instead of reading
about history, science or something he could watch a video
(documentary).~~

How about moving beyond the need to get history or science into him
and simply rent movies he would LIKE? There are plenty of fabulous
opportunities to learn about everything in the whole-wide-world
through simply doing activities one is drawn to...including movies
that are simply enjoyable to the individual.

Documentaries can be dry and boring for kids. If he loves them, great.
If he loves "Back to the Future" or "Jurassic Park" or "Austin Powers"
then rent those kind of movies. Tell us what he loves and we can all
suggest movies.

I have the feeling you're still stuck in thinking that certain
subjects need to be covered and that learning can be divided into
subjects when that isn't what unschooling is about at all.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Deb Lewis

***When I said video learning I meant documentaries. I didn't mean someone
teaching lessons via video. I just meant instead of reading about history,
science or something he could watch a video (documentary).***

You'll find that if you just give him access to the world he'll learn
without anyone dividing life into categories like history and science.
You won't have to think about him watching history documentaries or science
documentaries if you offer a big smorgasbord of opportunity for him explore
all kinds of visual media. He'll find what he enjoys, with your help, but
it won't look like subjects in school.

***We don't have any type of cable or satellite. We havent had this for 7
years. My husband and I have considered getting satellite for The History
Channel
and the like.***

Since you know he's a visual learner I think it would be a GREAT idea for
him to have lots of visual media to explore and play with. Not just the
History channel, not just Discovery Science. There's a world of learning in
anything he might find he enjoys. Open up that world to him.

***I have another question. My son due to his autism is a literal person. He
has difficult (extreme) reading for content, understanding metaphors, humor
etc.***

There are a lot of people who don't get much or anything out of reading. In
school that would be considered a problem but unschooling will let him look
for and find the information and entertainment he wants in other ways.
Reading is useful but it's not everything. And he's very young so he has
his whole life to get better at or more comfortable with reading *if he
finds he needs to.*

***Does anyone have any suggestions to help me with that? I dont mind
discussing things with him. I just need a little push in the right
direction to find what might be helpful to him.***

If you know reading isn't much fun for him then find other things to do.
Does he like you to read to him? Do that. Since you know he's more visual,
watch movies with him, go to art galleries and museums and look at paintings
and sculptures, go for walks, get a telescope and look at the night sky.
Rent a clear bottom boat and row across the lake. Don't focus on reading.
Ignore reading altogether if that makes him more comfortable. Focus on
what he enjoys and do all of that you can. Put school ideas out of your
mind. Pretend you're on a long (life long) vacation custom planned for your
son's enjoyment.

Deb Lewis

Melissa

woohoo! I can contribute to a discussion!
My son has autism as well, and was also very literal. IN fact he did not enjoy reading
fiction in the slightest, because it was full of ambiguity, didn't make sense and the
characters themselves didn't make sense. So he didn't. He did read a lot of nonfiction and
he obtained a lot of what he needed/wanted from that.
As he got older, he gradually started picking up fiction, mostly stories that seemed to be
on topic with his favorite nonfiction books. I helped a lot by looking for short fiction books
that contained topics he liked. Next thing I knew he was reading harry potter and laughing
outloud. He did have a lot of questions for me at first, and pretty much every book he read
from age nine on, I read along with him so that at dinner, or riding in the car, or playing
video games, i could say "Wow, what do you think Snape was thinking on page 167?"

Not everyone reads fiction for fun. i personally don't like reading nonfiction, although if
it's on one of my own special interests I will. It was that fact that allowed me to step back
and just let my son be who he was. We've been told that we have to force our special
needs children into the mold that is defined by normal, without respecting who they are to
begin with! We've been told that there is this focal point that is in the middle of 'well-
rounded individual' and so we push things that the kiddo's aren't interested in. I've seen
two autistic kids in our house, blossom when allowed to be themselves. With gentle
supports to help them function in the world to the extent they are capable, they've really
grown.
Melissa, gotta go, kids are needing me!

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Bentley" <robyn.bentley@...> wrote:
> I have another question. My son due to his autism is a literal person. He
> has difficult (extreme) reading for content, understanding metaphors, humor
> etc. Does anyone have any suggestions to help me with that? I dont mind
> discussing things with him. I just need a little push in the right
> direction to find what might be helpful to him.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Deb Rogers

Hi Robyn,

I have a 16 yr old diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD,
and ODD. He has had a horrendous time at many
different schools. He currently lives with his dad and
attends public school - however, he is actually
enjoying school - this school has a large population
of Aspie boys and treats them with the dignity and
respect all children deserve. In fact, he has told me
that he misses living with me and would like to move
back but he likes his school too much to leave it :)

My 7yr old has ADHD, huge anxiety issues, and may have
Asperger's as well (I have decided at this time not to
pursue a 'proper' diagnoses by an 'expert'). He
attended a public Montessori for kindergarten - that
went really poorly and he left with all sorts of
negative behavior issues he did not start with. Then
he attended a year of Waldorf kindergarten which was
very healing and relaxing for him (and vital for our
family as we were not yet ready to consided
homeschooling). Then this year began 1st grade and it
went south really, really fast and he came home in
early October.

We have been almost exclusively unschooling since then
and my son is blossoming. He is learning again how to
trust the world around him. We watch a lot of reality
shows (such like Risk Takers that are mini
documentaries on professions such as cop, border
patrol, etc., he loves Mythbusters, Star Trek and Star
Wars, he really enjoys shows about 'real' stuff and
'real' people and their lives).

In our state we have to do either a standardized test
or personnel assessment each year - since their is not
way he would be able to sit still for a long test we
went with the assessment - and he spent a lot of that
time curled up against me in a lovely, reassuring
cuddle. The beauty for my family in this assessment is
that the way it was done we were given grade level
equal. at the end of it and my 7yr old with no formal
education since kindergarten scored between 3rd and
8th grade depending on the subject. I was just amazed
at the technical and historical information he has
learned from his reading and watching. This is such a
blessing of reassurance - especially for my husband
who works for our local school system and has been a
bit worried about my ways of 'doing school' with him.

My son gets really anxious if he has to do too many
out of the house stuff in a day - so we can schedule
just one or two. He doesn't like to be away from me
for long and we can work with that as well. I am
deeply grateful for this opportunity to honor my
beautiful boy were he is instead of having to try and
force him to fit into someone else's mold.

You know your son best, and will learn so much more
about him with him home with you. The more you can
control to triggers for his anxiety the more he can
exist without that constant state of fear and begin
healing and growing more naturally.

Best of luck!

Blessings,
Deb

~~~~I want to unschool my son Nathaniel. I have many
reasons but
primarily it is because the school he attends now
failed him. He is
also Autistic, Bipolar, ADD/ADHD and has issues with
anxiety. The
school is offering him no services despite my
requests. I am
attempting to get him services again per the request
of his behavioral
specialist. He feels Nate would benefit tremendously
in a school
setting socially with the help of a one to one aid..
Currently he is a
social recluse and the victim of hazing and bullying.

I most likely will still choose to do the unschooling
because of the
difficulty and basic overall attitude I am getting
from the school. I
don't think I want my child to be in a school where
they didn't want
to help him be successful. My son's average is a U (F)
this entire
school year. They do not seem to care.

I believe Nate will be exremely successful with video
learning. He
retains atleast 95% of what he sees in movies. Does
anyone know where
I can find lessons that are set to a movie or video
type setting?

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine



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Jody

Hi Robyn.

I read your post with great interest because my son (12) was in a
very similar situation while in school. He had all kinds
of "labels", including Asperger's, OCD, behaviorally disabled,
anxiety, and the school system was failing him too. He was bullied
and teased, and hated school so much he became severely depressed
and suicidal. The instant I pulled him out of school (middle of his
5th grade year), his anxiety disappeared, and I no longer see any of
the labels he was given. I only see a child that sometimes sees the
world a bit differently, and we are learning together on how to help
him deal with certain situations that are difficult for him. I used
to think the school's behavioral specialist really knew what she was
talking about, and was taking DS from doctor to doctor to find out
what was "wrong" with him, but now I know that SCHOOL was what was
wrong with him! He is now happier than I've ever seen him. He gets
plenty of time with other kids thru un/homeschool support groups,
and these kids are much kinder than kids in PS, and he rarely has
any issues with them. If he does, the kids are always able to work
it out themselves. SOOO different from the kids in PS. There is
certainly never any bullying.

By pulling Nate out of school to unschool, you will hopefully stop
seeing him as someone with so many labels (children hear themselves
being called all these things, and it makes them think something is
wrong with them - this can be very damaging), but instead start
seeing him as a perfect being that just needs some guidance and help
in some areas of his life. You will eventually fall into a groove
of finding what his interests are and pursuing those interests, and
with that comes learning naturally (usually for both parent AND
child). If his experience in school was anything like my son's, he
will no doubt need LOTS of time to decompress, to DEschool, to just
play and have fun. Don't stress about whether he will learn
anything, he will, simply thru living life. But more importantly,
he will be happy.

I hope this helps.

With joy,
Jody Z.
Momma to Riley (12)

--- In [email protected], "jnaisi"
<robyn.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> I want to unschool my son Nathaniel. I have many reasons but
> primarily it is because the school he attends now failed him. He
is
> also Autistic, Bipolar, ADD/ADHD and has issues with anxiety. The
> school is offering him no services despite my requests.

Robyn Bentley

I wanted to Thank you all for being so reassuring. It made me feel
hopeful. Reading about your children has been like reading about my Nate.
Nate has come home from school so sure he understood what the teacher has
taught only for me to have to reteach him the correct information.

The more I read how successful you all were with your children the more I
think we can do this.

I do have another concern though.

I have 3 children. My son is 11 1/2, my daughter will be 8 soon, and my
youngest is 4.

I wanted to start with just Nathaniel because I think from his 6 years of
nothing but horrible school experiences he needs it. He needs all of my
attentions. Kayleigh has had wonderful schooling years so far. Excelled in
all her classes and socially seems to be doing quite well. Kiel is supposed
to start 4-K this fall.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to take your other kids out of school
so you can concentrate on one kid first?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sylvia Toyama

I wanted to start with just Nathaniel because I think from his 6 years of
nothing but horrible school experiences he needs it. He needs all of my
attentions. Kayleigh has had wonderful schooling years so far. Excelled in
all her classes and socially seems to be doing quite well. Kiel is supposed
to start 4-K this fall.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to take your other kids out of school
so you can concentrate on one kid first?

****

I'll bet there was a time -- maybe in 4-K? -- when school was going okay for Nathaniel. Now, after 6 yrs it's not so good, and that was likely a gradual, insidious shift from good to bad. The 'wrong' for me would be the risk that the longer they stay in school, the more damage I'd have to undo.

Also, while I've never had one in school with the others unschooling, I can imagine that's a pretty hard way to live day-to-day. You'd still have the artificial limits imposed by school schedules, and homework requirements, and field trips, and all the other stuff that goes with having kids in school.

Are you feeling that you won't be able to give enough time or energy to Nathaniel's unschooling with Kayleigh and Kiel at home, too? I can see the temptation to find some private time. We let my mil talk us into signing Andy up for kindergarten a year ahead of our own schedule, to 'give Dan, the baby, more time (thankfully we came to our senses and never sent Andy to kg, it would have been hell for him). But what does that say to the child who is 'deferred,' and what does it say to the child who is supposed to benefit from the extra time and energy?

Could you just declare summer vacation right now, and make the leap into unschooling as a household now, and let what happens in August unfold in its own time? It may be that your daughter chooses to continue school, and your youngest may choose to go or to stay home, but it would be nice if being home with Nathaniel was left as an open choice.

Sylvia


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Meredith

--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama
<sylgt04@...> wrote:
>> Also, while I've never had one in school with the others
unschooling, I can imagine that's a pretty hard way to live day-to-
day. You'd still have the artificial limits imposed by school
schedules, and homework requirements, and field trips, and all the
other stuff that goes with having kids in school.
*******************

I *have* had one in school and one unschooling, and I want to second
this. You still don't have the spontanaety of unschooling, and you
get a certain amount of discomfort in the family due to the fact
that one kid *gets* to be home all day and the other(s) *get* a lot
of attention when they come home. It encourages the idea that love,
time and attention are limited commodities that kids have to compete
for. Yuk.

Unschooling is something that happens on a family level, not an
individual level. A whole lot of what goes in in unschooling has to
do with communication and relationship building. That can't really
start until all the kids have the freedom to be home.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Robyn Bentley

I can see how having one home and other in school can cause some intrafamily
stress and possible chaos. I wouldnt mind having all of my kids home to
learn.

However my husband is totally against it. How does unschooling work when
only one family member is on board for all kids to be involved?

He is very supportive of Nate being homeschooled/unschooled. He feels that
the other two would be more successful socially in a conventional school
setting. He trusts that their own curiosities and intelligence will make up
for what the schools lack in teaching. How I am not totally sure. The
schools our kids attend cant even manage to pass the state testing. They
fail every year. But I am suppose to entrust them to educate my kids and
prepare them to be successful in society?

I know I am also responsible but it has always seemed like I was correcting
the lesson that the school gave. Their methods of teaching confuse me. So
therefore I am of no assistance to my kids. I try to instruct them the way
I understand it and it just seems to make them more confused.

I am sorry if I am just rambling. I am really wanting this for my kids but
I need to build up enough faith in myself that I can do it. That I can
deprogram my parenting methods from all these years. I need to believe that
I can allow my kids to be free spirits and that they can do this without
formal instruction. Sad isnt it. I know how smart my kids are. They amaze
me everyday.

I think I need to work on my husband. He is ex military and from a very
structured family who believe in formal educations. He wants his house to
run how he wants it to run. It is how he was raised.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Rogers

We brought our 7yr old home this past October and
didn't bring our 13 yr old until last month - I'm so
glad we finally have her here as well.

If for no other reason the drain on your time with
Nathaniel as you must bend each to fit around
drop-offs and pick-ups can be tremendous.

I concur that just having them all at home with no
schedule pressures, just the ability to take each day
as it comes will be great. A huge, healing blessing
for you all.

Blessings,
Deb

...........I wanted to start with just Nathaniel
because I think from his 6 years of
nothing but horrible school experiences he needs it.
He needs all of my
attentions. Kayleigh has had wonderful schooling years
so far. Excelled in
all her classes and socially seems to be doing quite
well. Kiel is supposed
to start 4-K this fall.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to take your
other kids out of school
so you can concentrate on one kid first?

"What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~Albert Pine




____________________________________________________________________________________
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Sylvia Toyama

I didn't realize you were having trouble getting your dh on board with unschooling as a whole. That does change things some, and would raise some interesting questions for me if I were in your situation.

******

He is very supportive of Nate being homeschooled/ unschooled. He feels that the other two would be more successful socially in a conventional school setting. He trusts that their own curiosities and intelligence will make up for what the schools lack in teaching. How I am not totally sure.

*****
So, he considers Nate to be some kind of special case? Is Nate really very different from his siblings? In ways that are positive or negative? Does your dh seem to think there's something about Nate that makes his issues more difficult to 'solve' or challenging in some way?

What would such an arrangement say to the kids? That Nate is somehow 'special' or incapable? That his 'problems' are more important than their preferences? It seems to set a precedent where everyone has to consider how different Nate's needs are. And is that fair to Nate, or his siblings?

******
The schools our kids attend cant even manage to pass the state testing. They fail every year. But I am suppose to entrust them to educate my kids and prepare them to be successful in society?

*****
It sounds like you are really unhappy about having any of your kids in your local schools. I think that's a valid point to make with your dh. Is he willing to read any unschooling articles or books? Maybe he'd be interested in Ben Lovejoy's Secret Society of Unschooling Dads egroup to talk to other Dad who've dealt with some reluctance to unschooling their kids?

*****

I know I am also responsible but it has always seemed like I was correcting the lesson that the school gave. Their methods of teaching confuse me. So therefore I am of no assistance to my kids. I try to instruct them the way I understand it and it just seems to make them more confused.

*****
What do you feel responsible for -- the misunderstandings with school? Is your husband aware of the huge amount of misinformation being taught in schools? There are some good books on that, starting with John Holt and John Taylor Gatto's writings. I'm currently reading "Lies My Teacher Told Me" all about the mis-teaching of American History that happens in our public schools.

Sylvia


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Robin Bentley

Robyn wrote:

I think I need to work on my husband. He is ex military and from a very
structured family who believe in formal educations. He wants his house to
run how he wants it to run. It is how he was raised.

*****************

Here's a link to the "Dads" page on Sandra's site:

http://sandradodd.com/dads

Our own Kelly Lovejoy's dh, Ben, has an article there called "Living by
Principles instead of by Rules" that might help. He's a Lieutenant Colonel
in the SC Air National Guard.

Robin (aka ORB)

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

Then I suggest you get more than The History Channel. If you have not had Satellite or cabel in 7 years there has been so many new channels full of great shows that youe son will love
Discovery Channels ( several of them now)
TLC
and others with shows like
Myth Buster
How its made
The most Extreme
Survivorman
and so many others
Also kids learn a lot from cartoons too.
Alex



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