Keeping the peace
[email protected]
I have a question that has been lingering for a while. A friend asked me the
same question the other day so here goes.....
I have 4 kids ages 12 to 3 mo.. Of all of them my 2 yr. old is the most
challenging for me emotionally. He has an ear ringing scream that he knows rocks
every ones world and usually has a smile on his face when he does it. I get it
and can deal with his new stand in the house but.......
My stress-ER is that he often wants what the 4 yr. old has. We have a cycle I
cant seem to change in our home. He sees a toy or item she has, she spots his
eyes looking, she packs up and runs, screaming begins. Now she is yelling and
he is crying/screaming and sometimes hits her. After the 12 yr. olds
neighborhood worries (long story, scary neighbor, maybe later I'll ask that question)
and not eating/meetting my needs when I need to bc I am with a newborn who
nurses for comfort and about the 5th time in a day that they have fought I have
had enough. What do you do?
The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend with 4
also and she agrees its just different. I have told her that what I try to do is
keep reassuring them, doling out the item or *asking one to share with the
other. My son is just 2 and understands what most of my words are but he's not
one I can reason with.
On the surface it seems like an easy fix but in the end they are fine in
minutes but I am left feeling like a train wreck. Its not like this every day but
the days that they get to each other im raising my voice more then I care to.
My husband works all day so its mostly me that has the bulk of the hours with
this.
Suggestions/advice unschooling/parenting in a large family anyone?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
same question the other day so here goes.....
I have 4 kids ages 12 to 3 mo.. Of all of them my 2 yr. old is the most
challenging for me emotionally. He has an ear ringing scream that he knows rocks
every ones world and usually has a smile on his face when he does it. I get it
and can deal with his new stand in the house but.......
My stress-ER is that he often wants what the 4 yr. old has. We have a cycle I
cant seem to change in our home. He sees a toy or item she has, she spots his
eyes looking, she packs up and runs, screaming begins. Now she is yelling and
he is crying/screaming and sometimes hits her. After the 12 yr. olds
neighborhood worries (long story, scary neighbor, maybe later I'll ask that question)
and not eating/meetting my needs when I need to bc I am with a newborn who
nurses for comfort and about the 5th time in a day that they have fought I have
had enough. What do you do?
The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend with 4
also and she agrees its just different. I have told her that what I try to do is
keep reassuring them, doling out the item or *asking one to share with the
other. My son is just 2 and understands what most of my words are but he's not
one I can reason with.
On the surface it seems like an easy fix but in the end they are fine in
minutes but I am left feeling like a train wreck. Its not like this every day but
the days that they get to each other im raising my voice more then I care to.
My husband works all day so its mostly me that has the bulk of the hours with
this.
Suggestions/advice unschooling/parenting in a large family anyone?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
Laura,
I have 4 kids 11, 5, 3.5 & 1. I have several of the same things
happening in my house and truthfully haven't found the answer yet, but it is
getting a little better. My 11 and 5 year old do not really get along very
well. They both have outgoing personalities and love to be the leader, so
you can imagine this could cause some problems. My sons 5 & 3.5 love to get
each other going. 5 year old sees a toy that 3.5 year old is using and will
find some way to take it from him or relentlessly ask him for it over and
over again just to bug him. My 3.5 year old has a great high pitched scream
as well. Whenever my 1 year old hears these arguments he has an interesting
reaction. He often yells really loud until his siblings look at him or he
runs up to them and bites them. Oddly enough when they see him coming they
break up the argument and that's the end of it for at least the next 5
minutes or so. I tell them that they're arguing is frustrating him and he's
just telling you all to be quiet, but they seem to think it's funny.
I do notice that most of the time when this happens a change of scenery
is all that's needed. They rarely argue outside. My husband has a much
lower threshold for the bickering than I do. Sometimes when they are all
running around like banshees at our dinner time ( my husband and I like to
eat at a certain time, but the kids don't have a schedule) he asks me if he
can turn one of our rooms in to a padded room and lock them in. He says this
in jest of course. I kind of agree with the padded room though, wouldn't
that be a blast! Not locked in of course.
Anyway all this might not sound very reassuring, but I really do see
progress. They have been finding subtle ways of working it out on their own
sometimes. When they do I just casually let them know that I'm glad they
worked it out and we just naturally move on.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: HMSL2@... [mailto:HMSL2@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
I have a question that has been lingering for a while. A friend asked me
the
same question the other day so here goes.....
I have 4 kids ages 12 to 3 mo.. Of all of them my 2 yr. old is the most
challenging for me emotionally. He has an ear ringing scream that he knows
rocks
every ones world and usually has a smile on his face when he does it. I
get it
and can deal with his new stand in the house but.......
My stress-ER is that he often wants what the 4 yr. old has. We have a
cycle I
cant seem to change in our home. He sees a toy or item she has, she spots
his
eyes looking, she packs up and runs, screaming begins. Now she is yelling
and
he is crying/screaming and sometimes hits her. After the 12 yr. olds
neighborhood worries (long story, scary neighbor, maybe later I'll ask
that question)
and not eating/meetting my needs when I need to bc I am with a newborn who
nurses for comfort and about the 5th time in a day that they have fought I
have
had enough. What do you do?
The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend with 4
also and she agrees its just different. I have told her that what I try to
do is
keep reassuring them, doling out the item or *asking one to share with the
other. My son is just 2 and understands what most of my words are but
he's not
one I can reason with.
On the surface it seems like an easy fix but in the end they are fine in
minutes but I am left feeling like a train wreck. Its not like this every
day but
the days that they get to each other im raising my voice more then I care
to.
My husband works all day so its mostly me that has the bulk of the hours
with
this.
Suggestions/advice unschooling/parenting in a large family anyone?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have 4 kids 11, 5, 3.5 & 1. I have several of the same things
happening in my house and truthfully haven't found the answer yet, but it is
getting a little better. My 11 and 5 year old do not really get along very
well. They both have outgoing personalities and love to be the leader, so
you can imagine this could cause some problems. My sons 5 & 3.5 love to get
each other going. 5 year old sees a toy that 3.5 year old is using and will
find some way to take it from him or relentlessly ask him for it over and
over again just to bug him. My 3.5 year old has a great high pitched scream
as well. Whenever my 1 year old hears these arguments he has an interesting
reaction. He often yells really loud until his siblings look at him or he
runs up to them and bites them. Oddly enough when they see him coming they
break up the argument and that's the end of it for at least the next 5
minutes or so. I tell them that they're arguing is frustrating him and he's
just telling you all to be quiet, but they seem to think it's funny.
I do notice that most of the time when this happens a change of scenery
is all that's needed. They rarely argue outside. My husband has a much
lower threshold for the bickering than I do. Sometimes when they are all
running around like banshees at our dinner time ( my husband and I like to
eat at a certain time, but the kids don't have a schedule) he asks me if he
can turn one of our rooms in to a padded room and lock them in. He says this
in jest of course. I kind of agree with the padded room though, wouldn't
that be a blast! Not locked in of course.
Anyway all this might not sound very reassuring, but I really do see
progress. They have been finding subtle ways of working it out on their own
sometimes. When they do I just casually let them know that I'm glad they
worked it out and we just naturally move on.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: HMSL2@... [mailto:HMSL2@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
I have a question that has been lingering for a while. A friend asked me
the
same question the other day so here goes.....
I have 4 kids ages 12 to 3 mo.. Of all of them my 2 yr. old is the most
challenging for me emotionally. He has an ear ringing scream that he knows
rocks
every ones world and usually has a smile on his face when he does it. I
get it
and can deal with his new stand in the house but.......
My stress-ER is that he often wants what the 4 yr. old has. We have a
cycle I
cant seem to change in our home. He sees a toy or item she has, she spots
his
eyes looking, she packs up and runs, screaming begins. Now she is yelling
and
he is crying/screaming and sometimes hits her. After the 12 yr. olds
neighborhood worries (long story, scary neighbor, maybe later I'll ask
that question)
and not eating/meetting my needs when I need to bc I am with a newborn who
nurses for comfort and about the 5th time in a day that they have fought I
have
had enough. What do you do?
The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend with 4
also and she agrees its just different. I have told her that what I try to
do is
keep reassuring them, doling out the item or *asking one to share with the
other. My son is just 2 and understands what most of my words are but
he's not
one I can reason with.
On the surface it seems like an easy fix but in the end they are fine in
minutes but I am left feeling like a train wreck. Its not like this every
day but
the days that they get to each other im raising my voice more then I care
to.
My husband works all day so its mostly me that has the bulk of the hours
with
this.
Suggestions/advice unschooling/parenting in a large family anyone?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
"The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend
with 4 also and she agrees its just different."
I have no amazing advice for you right now, it's just too early for
me. (That's another story.) BUT, I wanted to support you in this
statement. We have seven children, and somehow having many children
makes you a magnet for other large families. I have talked with
plenty of other mothers that can attest to this as well. There is
just something about when you cross the threshold from 3 children to
four or more. The dynamics really change.
I hope you get some great advice from the group about your
situation. I can see how it must be very stressful for you. If I
think of something later I'll be sure to post.
To a Calm Day-
Tina
with 4 also and she agrees its just different."
I have no amazing advice for you right now, it's just too early for
me. (That's another story.) BUT, I wanted to support you in this
statement. We have seven children, and somehow having many children
makes you a magnet for other large families. I have talked with
plenty of other mothers that can attest to this as well. There is
just something about when you cross the threshold from 3 children to
four or more. The dynamics really change.
I hope you get some great advice from the group about your
situation. I can see how it must be very stressful for you. If I
think of something later I'll be sure to post.
To a Calm Day-
Tina
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 8:11:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
<< I have 4 kids 11, 5, 3.5 & 1. I have several of the same things
happening in my house and truthfully haven't found the answer yet, but it is
getting a little better. My 11 and 5 year old do not really get along very
well. They both have outgoing personalities and love to be the leader, so
you can imagine this could cause some problems.>>
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
<< I have 4 kids 11, 5, 3.5 & 1. I have several of the same things
happening in my house and truthfully haven't found the answer yet, but it is
getting a little better. My 11 and 5 year old do not really get along very
well. They both have outgoing personalities and love to be the leader, so
you can imagine this could cause some problems.>>
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 8:20:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zoocrew@... writes:
"The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend
with 4 also and she agrees its just different."
*************************
As mom to 5, ages 9 to 25, I can say I agree with the numbers quotient.
Everything changes after 3. With that said:
You cannot change your children or their personalities. You can change your
perception of their situation. Their dynamics are known only to the
individual child. You can "try" to help them find coping strategies, but since the
dynamics and their needs change from day to day or moment by moment, that's
like spinning your wheels in most cases too.
It is often our discomfort at the noise or the tears or the day to day life
with that many personalities under one roof that leads us to search for
"solutions".
Here are the things I've tried to keep in mind, while mindfully parenting:
1) Each of your children is learning something valuable from the others.
2) You cannot be all things to all of your children at all moments.
3) Each of your children was an infant that needed you totally at one time
- they've all ready had that and sometimes they need to "wait". Now it is
this baby's turn and any subsequent babies after this one! <G>
4) The less you try to referee now, the more able they will become in
solving their own issues.
5) They may grow up to be best friends without your interference.
It is hard to watch our children when we perceive them to be needing or
hurting, but remember - they are your perceptions and vast amounts will be
learned if you lovingly support, offer kindness and gentleness and let them chart
their own way.
Good luck!
Linda S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zoocrew@... writes:
"The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a friend
with 4 also and she agrees its just different."
*************************
As mom to 5, ages 9 to 25, I can say I agree with the numbers quotient.
Everything changes after 3. With that said:
You cannot change your children or their personalities. You can change your
perception of their situation. Their dynamics are known only to the
individual child. You can "try" to help them find coping strategies, but since the
dynamics and their needs change from day to day or moment by moment, that's
like spinning your wheels in most cases too.
It is often our discomfort at the noise or the tears or the day to day life
with that many personalities under one roof that leads us to search for
"solutions".
Here are the things I've tried to keep in mind, while mindfully parenting:
1) Each of your children is learning something valuable from the others.
2) You cannot be all things to all of your children at all moments.
3) Each of your children was an infant that needed you totally at one time
- they've all ready had that and sometimes they need to "wait". Now it is
this baby's turn and any subsequent babies after this one! <G>
4) The less you try to referee now, the more able they will become in
solving their own issues.
5) They may grow up to be best friends without your interference.
It is hard to watch our children when we perceive them to be needing or
hurting, but remember - they are your perceptions and vast amounts will be
learned if you lovingly support, offer kindness and gentleness and let them chart
their own way.
Good luck!
Linda S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mrskos1997
Laura
I do not have this situation but I read a great book on siblings.
It has some good suggestions as to help the kids get along and lots
of other advice. The book is "Siblings without rivalry" by Adele
Faber and Elaine Mazlish.
HTH
Angela
I do not have this situation but I read a great book on siblings.
It has some good suggestions as to help the kids get along and lots
of other advice. The book is "Siblings without rivalry" by Adele
Faber and Elaine Mazlish.
HTH
Angela
>
> Suggestions/advice unschooling/parenting in a large family anyone?
> Laura
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 10:02:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
HMSL2@... writes:
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps
touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...<<<<
Littuns are hard because there's a lot of explaining and being WITH them and
redirecting and that needs to occur.
With a thirteen year old? "STOP IT!" should work!
There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are at
the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away from his
sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in that
singsongy school voice.
By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do nothing.
"STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HMSL2@... writes:
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps
touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...<<<<
Littuns are hard because there's a lot of explaining and being WITH them and
redirecting and that needs to occur.
With a thirteen year old? "STOP IT!" should work!
There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are at
the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away from his
sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in that
singsongy school voice.
By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do nothing.
"STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jul 27, 2004, at 12:23 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
heads together. LOL
-Tracy-
> There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids areThat commercial irks me so bad -- it makes me want to bop the parents'
> at
> the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away
> from his
> sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in
> that
> singsongy school voice.
>
> By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
>
> That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do
> nothing.
heads together. LOL
-Tracy-
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old andalmost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps
touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...>>>
That is exactly my problem here as well. I truthfully find the 11 & 5 year
old bickering situation much more annoying than the 3 and 5 one. I don't
know why, but I do.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: HMSL2@... [mailto:HMSL2@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
In a message dated 7/27/2004 8:11:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
<< I have 4 kids 11, 5, 3.5 & 1. I have several of the same things
happening in my house and truthfully haven't found the answer yet, but it
is
getting a little better. My 11 and 5 year old do not really get along
very
well. They both have outgoing personalities and love to be the leader, so
you can imagine this could cause some problems.>>
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps
touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
I know this might surprise people, but that commercial actually brings back
good memories for me. Well at least the finger pointing torture does. I
was the champ of ignoring that certain torture that my brother did to me. I
was so proud of myself when until he decided that something more aggressive
needed to be devised. He finally tried what he liked to call water torture.
He would pin my arms down with his knees and let this huge line of spit come
out of his mouth until it practically touched my nose and then he would
slurp it back in. I know that this stuff may sound just awful to some of
you, but we both look back at these times and laugh. At the time, however I
HATED him.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
good memories for me. Well at least the finger pointing torture does. I
was the champ of ignoring that certain torture that my brother did to me. I
was so proud of myself when until he decided that something more aggressive
needed to be devised. He finally tried what he liked to call water torture.
He would pin my arms down with his knees and let this huge line of spit come
out of his mouth until it practically touched my nose and then he would
slurp it back in. I know that this stuff may sound just awful to some of
you, but we both look back at these times and laugh. At the time, however I
HATED him.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: TreeGoddess [mailto:treegoddess@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
On Jul 27, 2004, at 12:23 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are
> at
> the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away
> from his
> sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in
> that
> singsongy school voice.
>
> By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
>
> That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do
> nothing.
That commercial irks me so bad -- it makes me want to bop the parents'
heads together. LOL
-Tracy-
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!>>Kelly,
The older they are the more creative they get about the picking. Did
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
In a message dated 7/27/2004 10:02:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
HMSL2@... writes:
Same here another concern I forgot to mention. My almost 13 yr. old and
almost 5 yr. old also irritate each other. More so the 13 yr. old keeps
touching
her as he walks by or is too rough...<<<<
Littuns are hard because there's a lot of explaining and being WITH them
and
redirecting and that needs to occur.
With a thirteen year old? "STOP IT!" should work!
There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are at
the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away from
his
sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in
that
singsongy school voice.
By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do nothing.
"STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
LOL, Same here! ive even thought after seeing that commercial that I have no
patience because there is no way I could pretend that's not happening. When I
see that I see my kids. He does do that and she yells out its maddening. He
stops when I ask but he just gets more creative. They are quiet shy kids to
other people though.
After I posted that the younger two were up stairs playing. The screaming
begins when the 4yr old packs up stuff to take to her room/play with or hide. I
explained to her that when she makes eye contact with him, hides it then runs
from the room it only increases his interest in the cat and mouse game. So she
knows what he will do and he knows what see with do but neither want to budge.
In the end they both survive the battle but I am left feeling tired and an
aching head not to mention an awake baby.
Laura
<<There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are at
the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away from his
sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in that
singsongy school voice.
By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do nothing.
"STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!
~Kelly >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
patience because there is no way I could pretend that's not happening. When I
see that I see my kids. He does do that and she yells out its maddening. He
stops when I ask but he just gets more creative. They are quiet shy kids to
other people though.
After I posted that the younger two were up stairs playing. The screaming
begins when the 4yr old packs up stuff to take to her room/play with or hide. I
explained to her that when she makes eye contact with him, hides it then runs
from the room it only increases his interest in the cat and mouse game. So she
knows what he will do and he knows what see with do but neither want to budge.
In the end they both survive the battle but I am left feeling tired and an
aching head not to mention an awake baby.
Laura
<<There's a commercial out now. I think it's Sunny Delight. Two kids are at
the beach with their parents. The boy keeps his finger inches away from his
sister's body teasing, "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you" in that
singsongy school voice.
By the second "I'm not touching you" I want to scream!
That's just NOT OK. Mom and Dad are sitting RIGHT there and do nothing.
"STOP IT!" should certainly be enough!
~Kelly >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<The older they are the more creative they get about the picking. Did
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?
AnnMarie>>
**************************************************
Exactly. He walks by her and taps her shoulder she screams. He flicks water
at her she screams. He looks at her she screams.
Now that Nicholas is getting older and figuring out the buttons to push he
sees that touching her in any way sends her screaming he does it but the change
is that she knows she can push him and he cant catch her.. Its a cycle I wish
I could solve.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?
AnnMarie>>
**************************************************
Exactly. He walks by her and taps her shoulder she screams. He flicks water
at her she screams. He looks at her she screams.
Now that Nicholas is getting older and figuring out the buttons to push he
sees that touching her in any way sends her screaming he does it but the change
is that she knows she can push him and he cant catch her.. Its a cycle I wish
I could solve.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
I only have one child so I can't speak to this juggling. But when I
read the post I felt that the mother's attention went to what she
deemed the most important need. But, if I were the child needing mom,
I would choose to escalate my needs to get her attention.
Unfortunately for the older children, it sounds like the baby is the
one getting all the attention. How would you feel if your parent
seemed to knowingly give all the attention to the baby repeatedly?
A question I ask myself when my child appears to be vying for my
attention is 'what need is he trying to meet?'. If it is for an
adult's attention perhaps enriching the environment for these older
children inside or outside of the home with other adults might help.
We had a couple of children and their dad over yesterday to play.
Each of the dad's children kept trying to tattle, pick at the other,
and engage me or their dad. He was busy trying to work on something.
I willingly was able to give each a share of my direct attention and
their requests for my attention became much more specific and
constructive nearly immediately. Only then were they able to play
more independently, but kept checking back for more.
Perhaps having an older person (16-75 years old) who can provide the
adult attention that they are seeking over might help meet these
needs. Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc. because the baby is so much work and
mom doesn't have the energy. The baby isn't the only one in the
family with needs. The older boys have been invited out but
are "needed" to help with the third child, so they aren't able yet.
For three months now, that is a long time to a 10 year old. Not long
to a 20 or 30 or 40 year old.
There is a book called Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish. It talks about the older child's point of view of
being invaded by the new baby and how to prevent rivalry and how to
continue to meet the needs of the older child creatively without
relying on them to help parent the younger child. Allowing them to
remain the child they are. Basically, if the child could meet his
needs he would. I know when my child doesn't, it is because he needs
help. I try to facilitate his needs. "Waiting" is only tolerated for
a while, then one must escalate their needs to be heard.
I disagree that it only our perception when our children appear to be
hurting or needing. It is listening to our child's call for help. Why
would a child only appear to be hurt or needing unless they were. I
too provide my son with loving support, offer kindness and gentleness
but I don't expect to leave him to chart his own way when he is
calling for help and attention.
I am sure it is different for children with siblings, but can their
needs not still be heard and facilitated? Nurturing a child can not
be done alone forever. Only when a baby is a baby can a mother feel
like she alone can meet her child's needs. I see many women acting
like the baby needs them most, so once the next baby comes along the
other child's needs must diminish. I think the older child's needs
must actually increase due to the new challenges. Relying on others
to continue to help meet the needs of the older children becomes
necessary. Relying on the children to try to meet each other's needs
isn't facilitating. They still need adults to listen and help, they
are telling you so themselves.
Pat
read the post I felt that the mother's attention went to what she
deemed the most important need. But, if I were the child needing mom,
I would choose to escalate my needs to get her attention.
Unfortunately for the older children, it sounds like the baby is the
one getting all the attention. How would you feel if your parent
seemed to knowingly give all the attention to the baby repeatedly?
A question I ask myself when my child appears to be vying for my
attention is 'what need is he trying to meet?'. If it is for an
adult's attention perhaps enriching the environment for these older
children inside or outside of the home with other adults might help.
We had a couple of children and their dad over yesterday to play.
Each of the dad's children kept trying to tattle, pick at the other,
and engage me or their dad. He was busy trying to work on something.
I willingly was able to give each a share of my direct attention and
their requests for my attention became much more specific and
constructive nearly immediately. Only then were they able to play
more independently, but kept checking back for more.
Perhaps having an older person (16-75 years old) who can provide the
adult attention that they are seeking over might help meet these
needs. Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc. because the baby is so much work and
mom doesn't have the energy. The baby isn't the only one in the
family with needs. The older boys have been invited out but
are "needed" to help with the third child, so they aren't able yet.
For three months now, that is a long time to a 10 year old. Not long
to a 20 or 30 or 40 year old.
There is a book called Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish. It talks about the older child's point of view of
being invaded by the new baby and how to prevent rivalry and how to
continue to meet the needs of the older child creatively without
relying on them to help parent the younger child. Allowing them to
remain the child they are. Basically, if the child could meet his
needs he would. I know when my child doesn't, it is because he needs
help. I try to facilitate his needs. "Waiting" is only tolerated for
a while, then one must escalate their needs to be heard.
I disagree that it only our perception when our children appear to be
hurting or needing. It is listening to our child's call for help. Why
would a child only appear to be hurt or needing unless they were. I
too provide my son with loving support, offer kindness and gentleness
but I don't expect to leave him to chart his own way when he is
calling for help and attention.
I am sure it is different for children with siblings, but can their
needs not still be heard and facilitated? Nurturing a child can not
be done alone forever. Only when a baby is a baby can a mother feel
like she alone can meet her child's needs. I see many women acting
like the baby needs them most, so once the next baby comes along the
other child's needs must diminish. I think the older child's needs
must actually increase due to the new challenges. Relying on others
to continue to help meet the needs of the older children becomes
necessary. Relying on the children to try to meet each other's needs
isn't facilitating. They still need adults to listen and help, they
are telling you so themselves.
Pat
--- In [email protected], Eberwhite@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 8:20:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> zoocrew@w... writes:
>
> "The problem is four kids is different from 2 or 3. I have a
friend
> with 4 also and she agrees its just different."
>
>
>
> *************************
>
>
> As mom to 5, ages 9 to 25, I can say I agree with the numbers
quotient.
> Everything changes after 3. With that said:
>
> You cannot change your children or their personalities. You can
change your
> perception of their situation. Their dynamics are known only to
the
> individual child. You can "try" to help them find coping
strategies, but since the
> dynamics and their needs change from day to day or moment by
moment, that's
> like spinning your wheels in most cases too.
>
> It is often our discomfort at the noise or the tears or the day to
day life
> with that many personalities under one roof that leads us to search
for
> "solutions".
>
> Here are the things I've tried to keep in mind, while mindfully
parenting:
>
>
> 1) Each of your children is learning something valuable from the
others.
>
> 2) You cannot be all things to all of your children at all
moments.
>
> 3) Each of your children was an infant that needed you totally at
one time
> - they've all ready had that and sometimes they need to "wait". Now
it is
> this baby's turn and any subsequent babies after this one! <G>
>
> 4) The less you try to referee now, the more able they will become
in
> solving their own issues.
>
> 5) They may grow up to be best friends without your interference.
>
> It is hard to watch our children when we perceive them to be
needing or
> hurting, but remember - they are your perceptions and vast amounts
will be
> learned if you lovingly support, offer kindness and gentleness and
let them chart
> their own way.
>
> Good luck!
> Linda S.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 2:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Kelly,
The older they are the more creative they get about the picking. Did
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and dogs---no,
worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I still get by
just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years at a time.
I know all about bickering.
I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate it now.
It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game if someone's not
having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you ever wish your
mother would just step in and stop them?
I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it. Seriously. And tell
them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have felt when I
did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how I feel now when I
see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything* their siblings.
I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job: to protect
each and every one of them----even if it's from the other sibling. It WILL
NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----in
ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as well.
We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when friends come
over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happens a lot
(Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come in pairs) . They tease and
annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as soon as I see
it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's coming: I try to
head it off at the pass.
Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance only. Don't
do it.
I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies", eight years
apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my husband) that
HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the adult when
he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was 13, to
remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had more control over their
emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for your actions.
Quit being mean. Just quit.
~Kelly
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Kelly,
The older they are the more creative they get about the picking. Did
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and dogs---no,
worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I still get by
just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years at a time.
I know all about bickering.
I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate it now.
It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game if someone's not
having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you ever wish your
mother would just step in and stop them?
I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it. Seriously. And tell
them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have felt when I
did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how I feel now when I
see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything* their siblings.
I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job: to protect
each and every one of them----even if it's from the other sibling. It WILL
NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----in
ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as well.
We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when friends come
over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happens a lot
(Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come in pairs) . They tease and
annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as soon as I see
it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's coming: I try to
head it off at the pass.
Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance only. Don't
do it.
I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies", eight years
apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my husband) that
HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the adult when
he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was 13, to
remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had more control over their
emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for your actions.
Quit being mean. Just quit.
~Kelly
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
"That is exactly my problem here as well. I truthfully find the 11 &
5 year old bickering situation much more annoying than the 3 and 5
one. I don't know why, but I do."
I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about the six year age
gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year old is always
bickering and competing with my 10 year old. Hmmm...
Tina
5 year old bickering situation much more annoying than the 3 and 5
one. I don't know why, but I do."
I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about the six year age
gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year old is always
bickering and competing with my 10 year old. Hmmm...
Tina
Tina
"I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it. Seriously.
And tell them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may
have felt when I did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell
them how I feel now when I see them doing things to hurt or annoy or
insult or *anything* their siblings. I'd tell them it WILL not
happen anymore because that is my job: to protect each and every one
of them----even if it's from the other sibling. It WILL NOT happen
anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----
in ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as
well."
I have had these conversations with my children several times. They
are 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 12 and 10. Despite my attempts they are
still rude to each other, mean to be mean and just plain get on each
other's nerves. It's a little ridiculous in my perspective. I've
done the whole, "Stop it, and don't do it again" routine. It doesn't
seem to be working for me. Before I got to that stage I did try to
let them handle it on their own. I tried that for a long time.
Recently I have resorted to me saying something because it just makes
me sick to hear the rudeness. We have the "Be kind" principle, and
it's great in theory, but no one takes it seriously. It's very
frustrating...
I'd be interested in hearing how others make this work in their home.
Tina
And tell them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may
have felt when I did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell
them how I feel now when I see them doing things to hurt or annoy or
insult or *anything* their siblings. I'd tell them it WILL not
happen anymore because that is my job: to protect each and every one
of them----even if it's from the other sibling. It WILL NOT happen
anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----
in ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as
well."
I have had these conversations with my children several times. They
are 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 12 and 10. Despite my attempts they are
still rude to each other, mean to be mean and just plain get on each
other's nerves. It's a little ridiculous in my perspective. I've
done the whole, "Stop it, and don't do it again" routine. It doesn't
seem to be working for me. Before I got to that stage I did try to
let them handle it on their own. I tried that for a long time.
Recently I have resorted to me saying something because it just makes
me sick to hear the rudeness. We have the "Be kind" principle, and
it's great in theory, but no one takes it seriously. It's very
frustrating...
I'd be interested in hearing how others make this work in their home.
Tina
[email protected]
I hear you point and though this may be valid in some families I can tell you
its not how my unschooling family functions. The baby is 3 months and nursing
so he is often connected to me. I may not move as fast but I go, do and move
the baby isn't the only one getting the attention.
All I can say is that ive had 1, 2 and 3 kids and they all had their
challenges esp 1 being so alone. I do not attend playgroups bc I haven't found one
that isn't full of traditional HS moms/beleifs that I dont agree with like
spanking and socialization which isn't an issue for us.
I love my family and love having four kids so please dont get me wrong < I
was looking for a solution to the picking and I know "most" familles have seen
it on one end or another. It could be worse I just dont want it to get there. I
dont agree with it and I do intervene when it happens and I do talk to them
about it. Its not ignored and STOP IT works BUT I dont want to have to keep
saying STOP IT I dont want to need to get to that point.
My son is 12 (13 in sept>). He has a group of 12 friends in the neighborhood.
He comes and goes as he pleases and is not asked to care for the younger ones
all I ask is that he checks in.
I dont feel as if im not meeting their needs I know I am. If it was rare that
children pick and fight id feel like dirt but the fact is that I have four
kids ages 3 mo to 12 and in such a mix its bound to happen. Im trying find a
communication that helps us all live more peaceful with a lil less.
Laura ~
"Some may feel we have to much going on
but there is a lota love in our home.
I wouldn't change a thing." LLD
********************************************************************
<<<Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc.>>>
************
Socialization doesnt need to be wiht the same age all the time. thats PS
teachings
Laura
******************************************************************************
<<In a message dated 7/27/2004 4:24:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:
I only have one child so I can't speak to this juggling. But when I
read the post I felt that the mother's attention went to what she
deemed the most important need. But, if I were the child needing mom,
I would choose to escalate my needs to get her attention.
Unfortunately for the older children, it sounds like the baby is the
one getting all the attention. How would you feel if your parent
seemed to knowingly give all the attention to the baby repeatedly?
A question I ask myself when my child appears to be vying for my
attention is 'what need is he trying to meet?'. If it is for an
adult's attention perhaps enriching the environment for these older
children inside or outside of the home with other adults might help.
We had a couple of children and their dad over yesterday to play.
Each of the dad's children kept trying to tattle, pick at the other,
and engage me or their dad. He was busy trying to work on something.
I willingly was able to give each a share of my direct attention and
their requests for my attention became much more specific and
constructive nearly immediately. Only then were they able to play
more independently, but kept checking back for more.
Perhaps having an older person (16-75 years old) who can provide the
adult attention that they are seeking over might help meet these
needs. Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc. because the baby is so much work and
mom doesn't have the energy. The baby isn't the only one in the
family with needs. The older boys have been invited out but
are "needed" to help with the third child, so they aren't able yet.
For three months now, that is a long time to a 10 year old. Not long
to a 20 or 30 or 40 year old.
There is a book called Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish. It talks about the older child's point of view of
being invaded by the new baby and how to prevent rivalry and how to
continue to meet the needs of the older child creatively without
relying on them to help parent the younger child. Allowing them to
remain the child they are. Basically, if the child could meet his
needs he would. I know when my child doesn't, it is because he needs
help. I try to facilitate his needs. "Waiting" is only tolerated for
a while, then one must escalate their needs to be heard.
I disagree that it only our perception when our children appear to be
hurting or needing. It is listening to our child's call for help. Why
would a child only appear to be hurt or needing unless they were. I
too provide my son with loving support, offer kindness and gentleness
but I don't expect to leave him to chart his own way when he is
calling for help and attention.
I am sure it is different for children with siblings, but can their
needs not still be heard and facilitated? Nurturing a child can not
be done alone forever. Only when a baby is a baby can a mother feel
like she alone can meet her child's needs. I see many women acting
like the baby needs them most, so once the next baby comes along the
other child's needs must diminish. I think the older child's needs
must actually increase due to the new challenges. Relying on others
to continue to help meet the needs of the older children becomes
necessary. Relying on the children to try to meet each other's needs
isn't facilitating. They still need adults to listen and help, they
are telling you so themselves.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
its not how my unschooling family functions. The baby is 3 months and nursing
so he is often connected to me. I may not move as fast but I go, do and move
the baby isn't the only one getting the attention.
All I can say is that ive had 1, 2 and 3 kids and they all had their
challenges esp 1 being so alone. I do not attend playgroups bc I haven't found one
that isn't full of traditional HS moms/beleifs that I dont agree with like
spanking and socialization which isn't an issue for us.
I love my family and love having four kids so please dont get me wrong < I
was looking for a solution to the picking and I know "most" familles have seen
it on one end or another. It could be worse I just dont want it to get there. I
dont agree with it and I do intervene when it happens and I do talk to them
about it. Its not ignored and STOP IT works BUT I dont want to have to keep
saying STOP IT I dont want to need to get to that point.
My son is 12 (13 in sept>). He has a group of 12 friends in the neighborhood.
He comes and goes as he pleases and is not asked to care for the younger ones
all I ask is that he checks in.
I dont feel as if im not meeting their needs I know I am. If it was rare that
children pick and fight id feel like dirt but the fact is that I have four
kids ages 3 mo to 12 and in such a mix its bound to happen. Im trying find a
communication that helps us all live more peaceful with a lil less.
Laura ~
"Some may feel we have to much going on
but there is a lota love in our home.
I wouldn't change a thing." LLD
********************************************************************
<<<Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc.>>>
************
Socialization doesnt need to be wiht the same age all the time. thats PS
teachings
Laura
******************************************************************************
<<In a message dated 7/27/2004 4:24:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:
I only have one child so I can't speak to this juggling. But when I
read the post I felt that the mother's attention went to what she
deemed the most important need. But, if I were the child needing mom,
I would choose to escalate my needs to get her attention.
Unfortunately for the older children, it sounds like the baby is the
one getting all the attention. How would you feel if your parent
seemed to knowingly give all the attention to the baby repeatedly?
A question I ask myself when my child appears to be vying for my
attention is 'what need is he trying to meet?'. If it is for an
adult's attention perhaps enriching the environment for these older
children inside or outside of the home with other adults might help.
We had a couple of children and their dad over yesterday to play.
Each of the dad's children kept trying to tattle, pick at the other,
and engage me or their dad. He was busy trying to work on something.
I willingly was able to give each a share of my direct attention and
their requests for my attention became much more specific and
constructive nearly immediately. Only then were they able to play
more independently, but kept checking back for more.
Perhaps having an older person (16-75 years old) who can provide the
adult attention that they are seeking over might help meet these
needs. Another thing I have noticed with my friend who just had her
fourth baby is that the older children need to be with others their
age, but are homebound because of the new baby. For nearly a month
before the baby and now the baby is 8 weeks old they haven't been to
park days, friends houses, etc. because the baby is so much work and
mom doesn't have the energy. The baby isn't the only one in the
family with needs. The older boys have been invited out but
are "needed" to help with the third child, so they aren't able yet.
For three months now, that is a long time to a 10 year old. Not long
to a 20 or 30 or 40 year old.
There is a book called Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and
Elaine Mazlish. It talks about the older child's point of view of
being invaded by the new baby and how to prevent rivalry and how to
continue to meet the needs of the older child creatively without
relying on them to help parent the younger child. Allowing them to
remain the child they are. Basically, if the child could meet his
needs he would. I know when my child doesn't, it is because he needs
help. I try to facilitate his needs. "Waiting" is only tolerated for
a while, then one must escalate their needs to be heard.
I disagree that it only our perception when our children appear to be
hurting or needing. It is listening to our child's call for help. Why
would a child only appear to be hurt or needing unless they were. I
too provide my son with loving support, offer kindness and gentleness
but I don't expect to leave him to chart his own way when he is
calling for help and attention.
I am sure it is different for children with siblings, but can their
needs not still be heard and facilitated? Nurturing a child can not
be done alone forever. Only when a baby is a baby can a mother feel
like she alone can meet her child's needs. I see many women acting
like the baby needs them most, so once the next baby comes along the
other child's needs must diminish. I think the older child's needs
must actually increase due to the new challenges. Relying on others
to continue to help meet the needs of the older children becomes
necessary. Relying on the children to try to meet each other's needs
isn't facilitating. They still need adults to listen and help, they
are telling you so themselves.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 10:15:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
zoocrew@... writes:
Despite my attempts they are
still rude to each other, mean to be mean and just plain get on each
other's nerves.<<<<<
WHY do they do it? I mean, there are always times when someone will get on
our nerves. Duncan was jumping up and down on my last nerve yesterday. BUT he
didn't MEAN to. He was just being Duncan, and I had had a hard day. He would
never so it just to BE mean to me. Why is it allowed? And why would they WANT
to hurt each other?
seem to be working for me.<<<<
For me, it's a one time deal. I mean: don't do it again PERIOD. Do your
children understand what you're saying? I don't mean stop just this time and next
time it's fine. I mean stop being mean to your sibling forever!
This may be the key. I'm responsible for each child's safety. I wouldn't let
them "handle it on their own". The bigger, stronger, older, or smarter kid
would always win out. I wouldn't put either of them in that position.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zoocrew@... writes:
Despite my attempts they are
still rude to each other, mean to be mean and just plain get on each
other's nerves.<<<<<
WHY do they do it? I mean, there are always times when someone will get on
our nerves. Duncan was jumping up and down on my last nerve yesterday. BUT he
didn't MEAN to. He was just being Duncan, and I had had a hard day. He would
never so it just to BE mean to me. Why is it allowed? And why would they WANT
to hurt each other?
>>>> I've done the whole, "Stop it, and don't do it again" routine. Itdoesn't
seem to be working for me.<<<<
For me, it's a one time deal. I mean: don't do it again PERIOD. Do your
children understand what you're saying? I don't mean stop just this time and next
time it's fine. I mean stop being mean to your sibling forever!
>>>>Before I got to that stage I did try tolet them handle it on their own. I tried that for a long time. <<<<
This may be the key. I'm responsible for each child's safety. I wouldn't let
them "handle it on their own". The bigger, stronger, older, or smarter kid
would always win out. I wouldn't put either of them in that position.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/27/2004 9:46:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zoocrew@... writes:
I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about the six year age
gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year old is always
bickering and competing with my 10 year old. Hmmm...
Tina
I was about to say the same thing. Mine are 12 and 4 and they fight just as
bad as if they were a year apart. I actually thought the gap would make it
easier.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zoocrew@... writes:
I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about the six year age
gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year old is always
bickering and competing with my 10 year old. Hmmm...
Tina
I was about to say the same thing. Mine are 12 and 4 and they fight just as
bad as if they were a year apart. I actually thought the gap would make it
easier.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----inANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as well.>>>
This is exactly our theory, but it doesn't stop the bickering any. If you
look in their eyes when they're doing it, it's almost as if they think it's
fun. More annoying to me than them. My 5 year old WON'T leave it alone and
my three year old searches through the house looking for the 5 year old when
they're not in the same room. They love to be with each other.
I don't remember wanting my mom to step in when I was little. I had 4
older brothers so maybe I thought it was a lost cause. My mom couldn't
possibly have that many eyes. I don't remember. I just know that NOW we
laugh about it and I don't hold any ill will towards any of them for what
they did.
Your lucky that they quite when you ask them to, but I still wonder what
would happen if they didn't quit. My 5 year old is VERY energetic/spirited
and doesn't seem to get that "stop it" philosophy. Lately I have been
telling him that it is my job to keep this family safe and if he's not going
to help me do that than he's going to need to leave the room or find a
different activity elsewhere. It's the only thing that I have found to
break the cycle of bickering, and only that is for a short time....
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
In a message dated 7/27/2004 2:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcontractinginc@... writes:
Kelly,
The older they are the more creative they get about the picking. Did
you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my most annoying
brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider that
sometimes
they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So I guess
my
question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and
dogs---no,
worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I still get
by
just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years at a
time.
I know all about bickering.
I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate it now.
It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game if someone's
not
having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you ever wish
your
mother would just step in and stop them?
I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it. Seriously. And
tell
them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have felt when I
did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how I feel now
when I
see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything* their
siblings.
I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job: to
protect
each and every one of them----even if it's from the other sibling. It
WILL
NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is unkind----in
ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben as well.
We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when friends come
over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happens a lot
(Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come in pairs) .
They tease and
annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as soon as I
see
it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's coming: I try
to
head it off at the pass.
Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance only.
Don't
do it.
I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies", eight
years
apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my husband)
that
HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the adult
when
he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was 13, to
remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had more control
over their
emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for your
actions.
Quit being mean. Just quit.
~Kelly
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
Another eye-opening book is Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary
Sheedy Kurcinka. It helped me to learn how to communicate about my
very physical child's needs with him. It describes the very different
temperments people have and how their individual needs can be
positively channeled to avoid frustrations for all around. The
authors provide vocabulary and perspectives to share with each other
about our needs. It is a very practical "how to" book with examples
and suggestions.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
Sheedy Kurcinka. It helped me to learn how to communicate about my
very physical child's needs with him. It describes the very different
temperments people have and how their individual needs can be
positively channeled to avoid frustrations for all around. The
authors provide vocabulary and perspectives to share with each other
about our needs. It is a very practical "how to" book with examples
and suggestions.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
> >>We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing isunkind----in
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben aswell.>>>
>If you
> This is exactly our theory, but it doesn't stop the bickering any.
> look in their eyes when they're doing it, it's almost as if theythink it's
> fun. More annoying to me than them. My 5 year old WON'T leave italone and
> my three year old searches through the house looking for the 5 yearold when
> they're not in the same room. They love to be with each other.had 4
> I don't remember wanting my mom to step in when I was little. I
> older brothers so maybe I thought it was a lost cause. My momcouldn't
> possibly have that many eyes. I don't remember. I just know thatNOW we
> laugh about it and I don't hold any ill will towards any of themfor what
> they did.wonder what
> Your lucky that they quite when you ask them to, but I still
> would happen if they didn't quit. My 5 year old is VERYenergetic/spirited
> and doesn't seem to get that "stop it" philosophy. Lately I havebeen
> telling him that it is my job to keep this family safe and if he'snot going
> to help me do that than he's going to need to leave the room orfind a
> different activity elsewhere. It's the only thing that I havefound to
> break the cycle of bickering, and only that is for a short time....picking. Did
>
> AnnMarie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kbcdlovejo@a... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:54 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
>
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 2:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gmcontractinginc@v... writes:
>
> Kelly,
> The older they are the more creative they get about the
> you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my mostannoying
> brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider thatI guess
> sometimes
> they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So
> mystill get
> question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
>
> I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and
> dogs---no,
> worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I
> byat a
> just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years
> time.it now.
> I know all about bickering.
>
> I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate
> It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game ifsomeone's
> notever wish
> having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you
> yourSeriously. And
> mother would just step in and stop them?
>
> I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it.
> tellfelt when I
> them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have
> did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how Ifeel now
> when Itheir
> see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything*
> siblings.to
> I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job:
> protectsibling. It
> each and every one of them----even if it's from the other
> WILLunkind----in
> NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
>
> We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Benas well.
>friends come
> We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when
> over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happensa lot
> (Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come inpairs) .
> They tease andsoon as I
> annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as
> seecoming: I try
> it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's
> toonly.
> head it off at the pass.
>
> Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance
> Don'teight
> do it.
>
> I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies",
> yearshusband)
> apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my
> thatadult
> HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the
> when13, to
> he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was
> remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had morecontrol
> over theiryour
> emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for
> actions.--------
> Quit being mean. Just quit.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --Service.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne Watson
Mine are thirteen and four and same thing! Siblings! My sons are
seven years apart and my daughters are nine years apart. You'd never
know it from the rivalry and bickering between these brothers and
sisters. The brothers, 25 and 18, still play wrestle each other!
Joanne
seven years apart and my daughters are nine years apart. You'd never
know it from the rivalry and bickering between these brothers and
sisters. The brothers, 25 and 18, still play wrestle each other!
Joanne
On Wednesday, July 28, 2004, at 07:25 AM, Luckiebyrd@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 9:46:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> zoocrew@... writes:
>
> I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about the six year age
> gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year old is always
> bickering and competing with my 10 year old. Hmmm...
>
> Tina
>
>
>
> I was about to say the same thing. Mine are 12 and 4 and they fight
> just as
> bad as if they were a year apart. I actually thought the gap would
> make it
> easier.
>
> Cheryl
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
eriksmama2001
Is this a "keep the family safe" issue or you don't like the way they
are choosing to have fun? It is important for them to be able to set
limits for themselves and this is an opportunity for them to practice
in a safe place. It is a game until one chooses to stop it. THEN it
needs to stop.
My friend's three year old was playing "trolls" (some made up "get-
you" type game) with his older brothers. They were all having fun. It
was getting rowdy so she told them to stop. Why? They were all
disappointed. She said she didn't want it to go any further. Perhaps
wanting the behavior to stop is actually yourself as a child wanting
someone to rescue you. That is your history and baggage.
BUT, you ARE there for them. There is no "lost cause" for them IF
they ask for your help. Their life is different. It sounds like you
are sensitive to this fear of it going too far and it becoming
a "lost cause". Perhaps, use that sensitivity for listening to them
rather than stepping in unless it IS a family safety issue. Share
your experiences and feeling about the issues of not feeling heard.
Reassure them that you are available when they ask for help. Perhaps
you could share some phrases on how to ask for the play to be 'more
gentle', 'slow down' or 'quit', 'it's not fun', 'I want to stop', IF
THEY WANT IT TO CHANGE. These are empowering tools that can be
carried with them even when you are not with them directly.
I don't interfere when my son is playing. I try to empower him to use
his words, leave the situation or ask for help. He knows that I will
be available whenever he needs me. I want to be a trusted advisor and
resource, not the one in charge.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
are choosing to have fun? It is important for them to be able to set
limits for themselves and this is an opportunity for them to practice
in a safe place. It is a game until one chooses to stop it. THEN it
needs to stop.
My friend's three year old was playing "trolls" (some made up "get-
you" type game) with his older brothers. They were all having fun. It
was getting rowdy so she told them to stop. Why? They were all
disappointed. She said she didn't want it to go any further. Perhaps
wanting the behavior to stop is actually yourself as a child wanting
someone to rescue you. That is your history and baggage.
BUT, you ARE there for them. There is no "lost cause" for them IF
they ask for your help. Their life is different. It sounds like you
are sensitive to this fear of it going too far and it becoming
a "lost cause". Perhaps, use that sensitivity for listening to them
rather than stepping in unless it IS a family safety issue. Share
your experiences and feeling about the issues of not feeling heard.
Reassure them that you are available when they ask for help. Perhaps
you could share some phrases on how to ask for the play to be 'more
gentle', 'slow down' or 'quit', 'it's not fun', 'I want to stop', IF
THEY WANT IT TO CHANGE. These are empowering tools that can be
carried with them even when you are not with them directly.
I don't interfere when my son is playing. I try to empower him to use
his words, leave the situation or ask for help. He knows that I will
be available whenever he needs me. I want to be a trusted advisor and
resource, not the one in charge.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
> >>We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing isunkind----in
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben aswell.>>>
>If you
> This is exactly our theory, but it doesn't stop the bickering any.
> look in their eyes when they're doing it, it's almost as if theythink it's
> fun. More annoying to me than them. My 5 year old WON'T leave italone and
> my three year old searches through the house looking for the 5 yearold when
> they're not in the same room. They love to be with each other.had 4
> I don't remember wanting my mom to step in when I was little. I
> older brothers so maybe I thought it was a lost cause. My momcouldn't
> possibly have that many eyes. I don't remember. I just know thatNOW we
> laugh about it and I don't hold any ill will towards any of themfor what
> they did.wonder what
> Your lucky that they quite when you ask them to, but I still
> would happen if they didn't quit. My 5 year old is VERYenergetic/spirited
> and doesn't seem to get that "stop it" philosophy. Lately I havebeen
> telling him that it is my job to keep this family safe and if he'snot going
> to help me do that than he's going to need to leave the room orfind a
> different activity elsewhere. It's the only thing that I havefound to
> break the cycle of bickering, and only that is for a short time....picking. Did
>
> AnnMarie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kbcdlovejo@a... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:54 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
>
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 2:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gmcontractinginc@v... writes:
>
> Kelly,
> The older they are the more creative they get about the
> you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my mostannoying
> brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider thatI guess
> sometimes
> they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So
> mystill get
> question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
>
> I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and
> dogs---no,
> worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I
> byat a
> just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years
> time.it now.
> I know all about bickering.
>
> I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate
> It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game ifsomeone's
> notever wish
> having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you
> yourSeriously. And
> mother would just step in and stop them?
>
> I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it.
> tellfelt when I
> them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have
> did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how Ifeel now
> when Itheir
> see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything*
> siblings.to
> I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job:
> protectsibling. It
> each and every one of them----even if it's from the other
> WILLunkind----in
> NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
>
> We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Benas well.
>friends come
> We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when
> over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happensa lot
> (Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come inpairs) .
> They tease andsoon as I
> annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as
> seecoming: I try
> it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's
> toonly.
> head it off at the pass.
>
> Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance
> Don'teight
> do it.
>
> I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies",
> yearshusband)
> apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my
> thatadult
> HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the
> when13, to
> he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was
> remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had morecontrol
> over theiryour
> emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for
> actions.--------
> Quit being mean. Just quit.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --Service.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
Pat,
It definitely is not my issue or some residual hurt left over from my
childhood coming in to play here. I don't recall any situations with my
brothers that would cause me to be paranoid about their bickering situation.
I ONLY interfere when there is pain whether it be physical or mental
involved. I do everything that you suggested in your post. It is not my
misinterpretation of events. I have read the Spirited Child and it had some
helpful suggestions. I definitely know the difference between play and
cruelty. Sometimes siblings are cruel to each other, heck sometimes
siblings don't even like each other. My choice is to remove the aggressor
from the situation and to do everything that I can to avoid the conflict if
I see it arising. This is a family plan that has been talked about with the
kids and enforced every time. Still it continues. I have seen very little
progress toward everyone walking around in total peace and happiness. All I
expect is that everyone in this family is safe to be the person they can be
without someone picking on them relentlessly or smacking them in the head
when they don't like what they have to say.
My point about the lost cause was that I don't remember feeling like I
needed help to stop my brothers. It (the picking) just didn't seem so bad.
I guess I was musing about how I might have felt before I remember existing
in this world. You know those lost memories of childhood. My brothers
picked on me I picked plenty back and my mother would intervene only if it
was getting serious, which it practically never did. My parents were such a
wreck that I think my brothers and I just bonded better than most other
siblings did. We made each other laugh I guess. Maybe that's what's
confusing to me about my own children bickering. They don't laugh so much
as scream and get frustrated.
My theory is time will work this out. I will try different things and
sometimes they'll work and sometimes they won't.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Keeping the peace
Is this a "keep the family safe" issue or you don't like the way they
are choosing to have fun? It is important for them to be able to set
limits for themselves and this is an opportunity for them to practice
in a safe place. It is a game until one chooses to stop it. THEN it
needs to stop.
My friend's three year old was playing "trolls" (some made up "get-
you" type game) with his older brothers. They were all having fun. It
was getting rowdy so she told them to stop. Why? They were all
disappointed. She said she didn't want it to go any further. Perhaps
wanting the behavior to stop is actually yourself as a child wanting
someone to rescue you. That is your history and baggage.
BUT, you ARE there for them. There is no "lost cause" for them IF
they ask for your help. Their life is different. It sounds like you
are sensitive to this fear of it going too far and it becoming
a "lost cause". Perhaps, use that sensitivity for listening to them
rather than stepping in unless it IS a family safety issue. Share
your experiences and feeling about the issues of not feeling heard.
Reassure them that you are available when they ask for help. Perhaps
you could share some phrases on how to ask for the play to be 'more
gentle', 'slow down' or 'quit', 'it's not fun', 'I want to stop', IF
THEY WANT IT TO CHANGE. These are empowering tools that can be
carried with them even when you are not with them directly.
I don't interfere when my son is playing. I try to empower him to use
his words, leave the situation or ask for help. He knows that I will
be available whenever he needs me. I want to be a trusted advisor and
resource, not the one in charge.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It definitely is not my issue or some residual hurt left over from my
childhood coming in to play here. I don't recall any situations with my
brothers that would cause me to be paranoid about their bickering situation.
I ONLY interfere when there is pain whether it be physical or mental
involved. I do everything that you suggested in your post. It is not my
misinterpretation of events. I have read the Spirited Child and it had some
helpful suggestions. I definitely know the difference between play and
cruelty. Sometimes siblings are cruel to each other, heck sometimes
siblings don't even like each other. My choice is to remove the aggressor
from the situation and to do everything that I can to avoid the conflict if
I see it arising. This is a family plan that has been talked about with the
kids and enforced every time. Still it continues. I have seen very little
progress toward everyone walking around in total peace and happiness. All I
expect is that everyone in this family is safe to be the person they can be
without someone picking on them relentlessly or smacking them in the head
when they don't like what they have to say.
My point about the lost cause was that I don't remember feeling like I
needed help to stop my brothers. It (the picking) just didn't seem so bad.
I guess I was musing about how I might have felt before I remember existing
in this world. You know those lost memories of childhood. My brothers
picked on me I picked plenty back and my mother would intervene only if it
was getting serious, which it practically never did. My parents were such a
wreck that I think my brothers and I just bonded better than most other
siblings did. We made each other laugh I guess. Maybe that's what's
confusing to me about my own children bickering. They don't laugh so much
as scream and get frustrated.
My theory is time will work this out. I will try different things and
sometimes they'll work and sometimes they won't.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Keeping the peace
Is this a "keep the family safe" issue or you don't like the way they
are choosing to have fun? It is important for them to be able to set
limits for themselves and this is an opportunity for them to practice
in a safe place. It is a game until one chooses to stop it. THEN it
needs to stop.
My friend's three year old was playing "trolls" (some made up "get-
you" type game) with his older brothers. They were all having fun. It
was getting rowdy so she told them to stop. Why? They were all
disappointed. She said she didn't want it to go any further. Perhaps
wanting the behavior to stop is actually yourself as a child wanting
someone to rescue you. That is your history and baggage.
BUT, you ARE there for them. There is no "lost cause" for them IF
they ask for your help. Their life is different. It sounds like you
are sensitive to this fear of it going too far and it becoming
a "lost cause". Perhaps, use that sensitivity for listening to them
rather than stepping in unless it IS a family safety issue. Share
your experiences and feeling about the issues of not feeling heard.
Reassure them that you are available when they ask for help. Perhaps
you could share some phrases on how to ask for the play to be 'more
gentle', 'slow down' or 'quit', 'it's not fun', 'I want to stop', IF
THEY WANT IT TO CHANGE. These are empowering tools that can be
carried with them even when you are not with them directly.
I don't interfere when my son is playing. I try to empower him to use
his words, leave the situation or ask for help. He knows that I will
be available whenever he needs me. I want to be a trusted advisor and
resource, not the one in charge.
Pat
--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
> >>We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing isunkind----in
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Ben aswell.>>>
>If you
> This is exactly our theory, but it doesn't stop the bickering any.
> look in their eyes when they're doing it, it's almost as if theythink it's
> fun. More annoying to me than them. My 5 year old WON'T leave italone and
> my three year old searches through the house looking for the 5 yearold when
> they're not in the same room. They love to be with each other.had 4
> I don't remember wanting my mom to step in when I was little. I
> older brothers so maybe I thought it was a lost cause. My momcouldn't
> possibly have that many eyes. I don't remember. I just know thatNOW we
> laugh about it and I don't hold any ill will towards any of themfor what
> they did.wonder what
> Your lucky that they quite when you ask them to, but I still
> would happen if they didn't quit. My 5 year old is VERYenergetic/spirited
> and doesn't seem to get that "stop it" philosophy. Lately I havebeen
> telling him that it is my job to keep this family safe and if he'snot going
> to help me do that than he's going to need to leave the room orfind a
> different activity elsewhere. It's the only thing that I havefound to
> break the cycle of bickering, and only that is for a short time....picking. Did
>
> AnnMarie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kbcdlovejo@a... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:54 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping the peace
>
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 2:18:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gmcontractinginc@v... writes:
>
> Kelly,
> The older they are the more creative they get about the
> you have siblings? I had four older brothers and I see my mostannoying
> brother in my daughter sometimes. You also need to consider thatI guess
> sometimes
> they annoy each other and then seem to have fun with it all. So
> mystill get
> question to you is; what if STOP IT isn't enough?<<<<
>
> I have a brother. Fifteen months younger. We fought like cats and
> dogs---no,
> worse! My dogs and cats get along wonderfully! My brother and I
> byat a
> just fine without seeing each other or speaking for months/years
> time.it now.
> I know all about bickering.
>
> I'd put a stop to ALL annoyances. ALL. I hated it then and I hate
> It's NOT fun if everybody's not playing, and it's not a game ifsomeone's
> notever wish
> having fun. It's YOUR job to keep it from happening. Didn't you
> yourSeriously. And
> mother would just step in and stop them?
>
> I would sit them down and tell them how I felt about it.
> tellfelt when I
> them how I felt when Johnny did things to me. How he may have
> did things to him (always in retaliation). I'd tell them how Ifeel now
> when Itheir
> see them doing things to hurt or annoy or insult or *anything*
> siblings.to
> I'd tell them it WILL not happen anymore because that is my job:
> protectsibling. It
> each and every one of them----even if it's from the other
> WILLunkind----in
> NOT happen anymore. Stop it and Don't do it again.
>
> We have a principle here: Be Kind. If what you're doing is
> ANY way---stop what you're doing NOW. That includes me and Benas well.
>friends come
> We don't have any problems with it in our famiily, but when
> over, it's common. I hate having siblings visit, but that happensa lot
> (Duncan's best friends are two sets of siblings; they come inpairs) .
> They tease andsoon as I
> annoy and are often just plain mean. I put a stop to that as
> seecoming: I try
> it---and lately before it even starts, because I know it's
> toonly.
> head it off at the pass.
>
> Don't do it here; I'll take you home. One chance and one chance
> Don'teight
> do it.
>
> I lived with it as a child---and purposefully have two "onlies",
> yearshusband)
> apart. I couldn't handle that meaness. I used to tell Ben (my
> thatadult
> HE was the thirty-three year old and that he should act like the
> when13, to
> he and Cameron used to get into it. I told Cameron, when he was
> remember that Duncan was just five. Cameron (and Ben) had morecontrol
> over theiryour
> emotions and actions than the littler one. Be responsible for
> actions.--------
> Quit being mean. Just quit.
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dana Matt
Mine are 12 and 6 and are best buds, never fight to
annoy each other.
Dana
in MOntana
--- Luckiebyrd@... wrote:
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annoy each other.
Dana
in MOntana
--- Luckiebyrd@... wrote:
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/0xXolB/TM
> In a message dated 7/27/2004 9:46:49 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> zoocrew@... writes:
>
> I'm beginning to wonder if there's something about
> the six year age
> gap. It's been on my mind for a while. My 16 year
> old is always
> bickering and competing with my 10 year old.
> Hmmm...
>
> Tina
>
>
>
> I was about to say the same thing. Mine are 12 and
> 4 and they fight just as
> bad as if they were a year apart. I actually
> thought the gap would make it
> easier.
>
> Cheryl
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
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mamaaj2000
Okay, I don't know if this will help at all, but I find myself
wondering what the older kids think of the younger kids--at a deep
level...like do they see them as the same species?!
I noticed today that while my 1.5 y o dd has taken a big step forward
in communicating with actual words, my 3.5 y o ds hasn't noticed that
she's trying to talk to him. He claims she can only say a few words.
I mentioned something about her being a toddler and he was suprised
that she's not a baby anymore. He knows she listens to him--he's
always aware of audience members, lol!
Anywho, just wondering outloud about how they might see the younger
ones differently. Mikey is a great conversationalist with everyone
else, so I know he'll eventually notice she's talking to him, but
right now, he thinks he talks to her and she can't talk back...and
I'm sure that has some influence on their relationship. Eek, esp.
when she isn't being heard and then gets mad...
--aj
wondering what the older kids think of the younger kids--at a deep
level...like do they see them as the same species?!
I noticed today that while my 1.5 y o dd has taken a big step forward
in communicating with actual words, my 3.5 y o ds hasn't noticed that
she's trying to talk to him. He claims she can only say a few words.
I mentioned something about her being a toddler and he was suprised
that she's not a baby anymore. He knows she listens to him--he's
always aware of audience members, lol!
Anywho, just wondering outloud about how they might see the younger
ones differently. Mikey is a great conversationalist with everyone
else, so I know he'll eventually notice she's talking to him, but
right now, he thinks he talks to her and she can't talk back...and
I'm sure that has some influence on their relationship. Eek, esp.
when she isn't being heard and then gets mad...
--aj
Robyn Coburn
<<<< My choice is to remove the aggressor
from the situation and to do everything that I can to avoid the conflict if
I see it arising. This is a family plan that has been talked about with the
kids and enforced every time. Still it continues.>>>>
Here is a link to Sandra's page about settling squabbles. The idea in this
that is different is the concept of removing the *loser* rather than the
aggressor. Maybe there will be something helpful there.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
All this really puts me off wanting another baby - I feel afraid that I
wouldn't have the patience and tenacity to settle the apparently endless
fights that you all seem to have. It is alright for Jayn to say *now* that
she would like a baby sister or brother, but it sounds like her feelings
would change after the baby came.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004
from the situation and to do everything that I can to avoid the conflict if
I see it arising. This is a family plan that has been talked about with the
kids and enforced every time. Still it continues.>>>>
Here is a link to Sandra's page about settling squabbles. The idea in this
that is different is the concept of removing the *loser* rather than the
aggressor. Maybe there will be something helpful there.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
All this really puts me off wanting another baby - I feel afraid that I
wouldn't have the patience and tenacity to settle the apparently endless
fights that you all seem to have. It is alright for Jayn to say *now* that
she would like a baby sister or brother, but it sounds like her feelings
would change after the baby came.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>>All this really puts me off wanting another baby - I feel afraid that Iwouldn't have the patience and tenacity to settle the apparently endless
fights that you all seem to have. It is alright for Jayn to say *now* that
she would like a baby sister or brother, but it sounds like her feelings
would change after the baby came.>>>
All of our day is not fighting and endless squabbles. You are just getting
the worse case scenario at least from me. In reality though, My daughter
REALLY wanted a little sister and she got 3 brothers instead. This has
really annoyed her, but what she doesn't realize is that a baby sister would
have been the same way. Many siblings don't really get along in the younger
years due to developmental differences and the lack of understanding that
they actually have developmental differences. (Dana from Montana is
certainly the exception not the rule - she has great kids by the sounds of
it which never fight- lucky)
So, in regards to feelings when the new baby actually gets here; yes we did
see a big change with Priscilla. She was really great towards her brother's
when they were infants, but once they became mobile and opinionated she
began not to like it so much. However, she did ask me the other day if I
would have another baby...Hmmmm - Go figure.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Keeping the peace
<<<< My choice is to remove the aggressor
from the situation and to do everything that I can to avoid the conflict if
I see it arising. This is a family plan that has been talked about with the
kids and enforced every time. Still it continues.>>>>
Here is a link to Sandra's page about settling squabbles. The idea in this
that is different is the concept of removing the *loser* rather than the
aggressor. Maybe there will be something helpful there.
http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting
All this really puts me off wanting another baby - I feel afraid that I
wouldn't have the patience and tenacity to settle the apparently endless
fights that you all seem to have. It is alright for Jayn to say *now* that
she would like a baby sister or brother, but it sounds like her feelings
would change after the baby came.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004
Yahoo! Groups Links
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/29/2004 4:56:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dezigna@... writes:
All this really puts me off wanting another baby -
Sibling squabbles definitely happen. But I have been wanting to post again
and say that it's NOT ALL the time. As a matter of fact, I think it's neat
how my boys can sense when it's really important to me that they get along,
like if I'm really tired (I work night shift). And it's sweet when Nat 12
cooks lunch for Joel 4, or reads him a bedtime story. And they do play together
even with the age difference, I guess if they ignored each other they
wouldn't have anything to fight about. I'm very glad that they have each other.
I've actually been lobbying dh for one more (so far unsuccessfully). '
I was an only child until I was twelve, and with that big of an age
difference I felt more like another mother to my sister than a sister. I wanted my
two to be closer then they are but this is just how it worked out. And I
guess it is working out:-) They do love each other.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
All this really puts me off wanting another baby -
Sibling squabbles definitely happen. But I have been wanting to post again
and say that it's NOT ALL the time. As a matter of fact, I think it's neat
how my boys can sense when it's really important to me that they get along,
like if I'm really tired (I work night shift). And it's sweet when Nat 12
cooks lunch for Joel 4, or reads him a bedtime story. And they do play together
even with the age difference, I guess if they ignored each other they
wouldn't have anything to fight about. I'm very glad that they have each other.
I've actually been lobbying dh for one more (so far unsuccessfully). '
I was an only child until I was twelve, and with that big of an age
difference I felt more like another mother to my sister than a sister. I wanted my
two to be closer then they are but this is just how it worked out. And I
guess it is working out:-) They do love each other.
Cheryl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]