different kids/different desires
Katharine Wise
How do you handle this kind of situation:
We have our first beautiful, semi-warm day in weeks (we did have a freak warm period a month ago:-). I suggest, "How about if I pack a picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
Child #1 says, "No. I'm not going anywhere."
Child #2 says, "I don't want to go to Water Street."
Child#3 says, "I'm going to Water Street and have a picnic lunch or I'm not going to go anywhere and I'm not going to have lunch."
Katharine
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We have our first beautiful, semi-warm day in weeks (we did have a freak warm period a month ago:-). I suggest, "How about if I pack a picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
Child #1 says, "No. I'm not going anywhere."
Child #2 says, "I don't want to go to Water Street."
Child#3 says, "I'm going to Water Street and have a picnic lunch or I'm not going to go anywhere and I'm not going to have lunch."
Katharine
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Meredith
Can you have a picnic in your yard? Maybe one or two of the kids
would like to join you for that, but not all. What can you do for
the other kid? Leave a sandwich next to the tv or whatever?
Right after the weather warmed up (both times, we had the warm-cold
thing) Mo took a few days to shift gears to wanting to do things
outside. I think of it as inertia. I started doing more things
outside myself and not expecting her to either join me or not. Now
she's more likely to drag *me* outside. I know its more complicated
with multiple kids, but I suspect they all have a little of the
same "inertia".
That's a bummer, I really wanted to go to. Next time maybe we can
get the others excited about it, too, or you and I can go when dad
gets home.
"Of course, you don't have to eat if you're not hungry. I'll leave a
snack right here just in case, so you don't have to stop what you're
doing."
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
would like to join you for that, but not all. What can you do for
the other kid? Leave a sandwich next to the tv or whatever?
Right after the weather warmed up (both times, we had the warm-cold
thing) Mo took a few days to shift gears to wanting to do things
outside. I think of it as inertia. I started doing more things
outside myself and not expecting her to either join me or not. Now
she's more likely to drag *me* outside. I know its more complicated
with multiple kids, but I suspect they all have a little of the
same "inertia".
> Child#3 says, "I'm going to Water Street and have a picnic lunch"I'm sorry, it doesn't look like Water Street is going to happen.
>or I'm not going to go anywhere and I'm not going to have lunch."
That's a bummer, I really wanted to go to. Next time maybe we can
get the others excited about it, too, or you and I can go when dad
gets home.
"Of course, you don't have to eat if you're not hungry. I'll leave a
snack right here just in case, so you don't have to stop what you're
doing."
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
anja_mit_mut
Hi Katharine,
sorry for my bad English - I´m a german mother.
In this situation I would think about, why I have made the suggestion:
1: -because I! want to go to the water street stream and have a picnic
2: -because I would do some activity FOR my kids
3: etc...
In the first case I would decide to do this activity without my kids.
(If I wont stay at home, why should I?)
In the second case, maybe this idea doesn´t fit with the needs of my
kids, and I would stay at home. Normally my kids decide to do some
other activities in this case.
This is my way handling such situations. There are other options too,
but my English is too bad in order to describe it excactly. For
instance: first I get my break near the water for half an hour. Maybe
at my return my kids had found a compromise etc.
Anja
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
sorry for my bad English - I´m a german mother.
In this situation I would think about, why I have made the suggestion:
1: -because I! want to go to the water street stream and have a picnic
2: -because I would do some activity FOR my kids
3: etc...
In the first case I would decide to do this activity without my kids.
(If I wont stay at home, why should I?)
In the second case, maybe this idea doesn´t fit with the needs of my
kids, and I would stay at home. Normally my kids decide to do some
other activities in this case.
This is my way handling such situations. There are other options too,
but my English is too bad in order to describe it excactly. For
instance: first I get my break near the water for half an hour. Maybe
at my return my kids had found a compromise etc.
Anja
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>freak warm period a month ago:-). I suggest, "How about if I pack a
> How do you handle this kind of situation:
>
> We have our first beautiful, semi-warm day in weeks (we did have a
picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
>I'm not going to go anywhere and I'm not going to have lunch."
> Child #1 says, "No. I'm not going anywhere."
>
> Child #2 says, "I don't want to go to Water Street."
>
> Child#3 says, "I'm going to Water Street and have a picnic lunch or
>
> Katharine
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Lisa
--- In [email protected], Katharine Wise
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
with something everyone will agree with. Then find out what everyone
wants to do and we discuss how everyone can have what they want. It
might mean we go the park first bringing stuff to keep everyone happy
and then stopping somewhere else on the way there or home. Or
finding company to join us bringing friends along makes the world of
difference. But bottom line all of us engage in a discussion
towards a solution that we all are happy about. We all make
suggestions. As we've always been together we know how to make
suggestions that have potential for satisfying one another. The
result may be entirely different from what I originally suggested.
It's important to listen for what is really important to each
person it may be the specific park or it may be simply being
outside or it may be a picnic or it may be continuing a specific
activity. I think our success in this has come from each person
knowing from experience that their desires are respected and so
everyone is willing to accommodate each other. This comes from the
experience of our reality.
While I like to consider myself to be spontaneous spontaneity
doesn't always work with everyone all the time. Our daily plans are
generally discussed in advance and the kinks worked out when there's
plenty of time to facilitate everyone's desires.
Lisa Heyman
picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
<katharinewise@...> wrote:
>When in disagreement on an activity I usually say let's come up
> How do you handle this kind of situation:
with something everyone will agree with. Then find out what everyone
wants to do and we discuss how everyone can have what they want. It
might mean we go the park first bringing stuff to keep everyone happy
and then stopping somewhere else on the way there or home. Or
finding company to join us bringing friends along makes the world of
difference. But bottom line all of us engage in a discussion
towards a solution that we all are happy about. We all make
suggestions. As we've always been together we know how to make
suggestions that have potential for satisfying one another. The
result may be entirely different from what I originally suggested.
It's important to listen for what is really important to each
person it may be the specific park or it may be simply being
outside or it may be a picnic or it may be continuing a specific
activity. I think our success in this has come from each person
knowing from experience that their desires are respected and so
everyone is willing to accommodate each other. This comes from the
experience of our reality.
While I like to consider myself to be spontaneous spontaneity
doesn't always work with everyone all the time. Our daily plans are
generally discussed in advance and the kinks worked out when there's
plenty of time to facilitate everyone's desires.
Lisa Heyman
>freak warm period a month ago:-). I suggest, "How about if I pack a
> We have our first beautiful, semi-warm day in weeks (we did have a
picnic lunch and we go to the the Water Street stream?"
>I'm not going to go anywhere and I'm not going to have lunch."
> Child #1 says, "No. I'm not going anywhere."
>
> Child #2 says, "I don't want to go to Water Street."
>
> Child#3 says, "I'm going to Water Street and have a picnic lunch or
>
> Katharine
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Maisha Khalfani
Whew! I haven't been able to read for a bit and, no coincidence of course, many of the questions/issues posted are ones that I have been dealing with.
Large families: I have been wondering too if unschooling works with large families. 5 kids, 2 adults, and lots of personalities (we each have about 3 of them - smile). Negotiating is a skill none of us seem to have. My husband doesn't believe in negotiating with kids - so that's an issue. And then my children don't like negotiating either. And there is always something to negotiate - that alone is draining. Who watches what movie first, who closes the car door, who gets what spoon, who's story is read first, who gets to do what on the computer first, who sits in what seat, etc.
At this point in time we have one computer, and one television with a vcr (only the vcr works). We are not able to get anything else right now due to a variety of constraints. Yet everyone wants to be "first".
Then, when a negotiation is settled on, the next day we are back to square one. For instance, when Safiya and Dakari both wanted to sit next to Khidar in the car, they came up with the agreement that they would switch days - safiya one day, dakari the next. but whenever it was safiya's day, dakari would start kicking and screaming about how he wanted to sit next to khidar. after a few days of this I couldn't take it anymore and, yes, I decided that neither of them would sit next to khidar.
If Khalid, Safiya, and Dakari want to watch a movie when we get home there's a big to-do about who watches their movie first. then of course tears and screaming from at least one who wanted their movie to be first. Emotionally it's draining for me. Most days my head feels like it's going to explode from trying to figure out and understand everyone.
Now, I do ask for help. If I ask - and I really am asking at this point, I get whining and crying or I get asked "do I have to" every-single-time. And my answer is "no, but I could use the help." If I'm unable to help out with something there's whining and crying from Safiya and Dakari usually. They are able to do some things for themselves, but they still want me to do it for them. I get exhausted, I've explained this to them, yet they want me to do all and be all.
As for different desires: again with the negotiating. Clearly I need a class or two on negotiation skills because I get stuck with my kids. I ask them to come up with solutions and then one will say "no" out of spite. what to do then? when one child just doesn't want to cooperate?
And for the past 6 months or so Dakari has taken to yelling at me and his two sisters. It makes me very angry because he only does it with me - not with my sister or his father or his grandmother - just me. As a matter of fact, they only act this way with me period. whenever they are with someone else and I'm not around they are capable and willing. As soon as I step into the picture they start with whining, crying, and the helplessness (safiya and dakari, not khalid and khidar). What I am doing/not doing that is bringing this out in them? Maybe I'm exhausted as well. I'm open to all comments and suggestions.
Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
http://www.dmuuc.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Large families: I have been wondering too if unschooling works with large families. 5 kids, 2 adults, and lots of personalities (we each have about 3 of them - smile). Negotiating is a skill none of us seem to have. My husband doesn't believe in negotiating with kids - so that's an issue. And then my children don't like negotiating either. And there is always something to negotiate - that alone is draining. Who watches what movie first, who closes the car door, who gets what spoon, who's story is read first, who gets to do what on the computer first, who sits in what seat, etc.
At this point in time we have one computer, and one television with a vcr (only the vcr works). We are not able to get anything else right now due to a variety of constraints. Yet everyone wants to be "first".
Then, when a negotiation is settled on, the next day we are back to square one. For instance, when Safiya and Dakari both wanted to sit next to Khidar in the car, they came up with the agreement that they would switch days - safiya one day, dakari the next. but whenever it was safiya's day, dakari would start kicking and screaming about how he wanted to sit next to khidar. after a few days of this I couldn't take it anymore and, yes, I decided that neither of them would sit next to khidar.
If Khalid, Safiya, and Dakari want to watch a movie when we get home there's a big to-do about who watches their movie first. then of course tears and screaming from at least one who wanted their movie to be first. Emotionally it's draining for me. Most days my head feels like it's going to explode from trying to figure out and understand everyone.
Now, I do ask for help. If I ask - and I really am asking at this point, I get whining and crying or I get asked "do I have to" every-single-time. And my answer is "no, but I could use the help." If I'm unable to help out with something there's whining and crying from Safiya and Dakari usually. They are able to do some things for themselves, but they still want me to do it for them. I get exhausted, I've explained this to them, yet they want me to do all and be all.
As for different desires: again with the negotiating. Clearly I need a class or two on negotiation skills because I get stuck with my kids. I ask them to come up with solutions and then one will say "no" out of spite. what to do then? when one child just doesn't want to cooperate?
And for the past 6 months or so Dakari has taken to yelling at me and his two sisters. It makes me very angry because he only does it with me - not with my sister or his father or his grandmother - just me. As a matter of fact, they only act this way with me period. whenever they are with someone else and I'm not around they are capable and willing. As soon as I step into the picture they start with whining, crying, and the helplessness (safiya and dakari, not khalid and khidar). What I am doing/not doing that is bringing this out in them? Maybe I'm exhausted as well. I'm open to all comments and suggestions.
Namaste
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com
http://www.dmuuc.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: maitai373@...
Negotiating is a skill none of us seem to have. My husband
doesn't believe in negotiating with kids - so that's an issue. And
then my
children don't like negotiating either.
-=-=-=-=-=--=
DINGDINGDINGDING!!
Your husband's reluctance/refusal to negotiate with them is setting
them up to be unable to negotiate with each other.
Where does he think they get it?
If *I* don't negotiate with you, then I get my way, and you don't. I
win; you lose. So why negotiate? It works for dad (and all the other
adults I meet). I won't negotiate.
-=-=-=-=-=-
As for different desires: again with the negotiating. Clearly I need a
class or
two on negotiation skills because I get stuck with my kids. I ask them
to come
up with solutions and then one will say "no" out of spite. what to do
then?
when one child just doesn't want to cooperate?
-=-=-=-=-
What do they do when dad won't negotiate/cooperate?
-=-=-=-=-
And for the past 6 months or so Dakari has taken to yelling at me and
his two
sisters. It makes me very angry because he only does it with me - not
with my
sister or his father or his grandmother - just me. As a matter of
fact, they
only act this way with me period. whenever they are with someone else
and I'm
not around they are capable and willing. As soon as I step into the
picture
they start with whining, crying, and the helplessness (safiya and
dakari, not
khalid and khidar). What I am doing/not doing that is bringing this
out in
them? Maybe I'm exhausted as well. I'm open to all comments and
suggestions.
-=-=-=-=-=-
One thing may be that they only feel comfortable enough with you. Or it
could be that you "invite" it in some way. Don't know.
Exhaustion doesn't help!
Are you on the ConsensualLiving elist?
Maisha, I haven't heard back as to whether you and your family are
coming to the conference, but I can guarantee you will leave with more
skills that you came with. Your husband will see how children are when
they are respected (and negotiated with!).
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: maitai373@...
Negotiating is a skill none of us seem to have. My husband
doesn't believe in negotiating with kids - so that's an issue. And
then my
children don't like negotiating either.
-=-=-=-=-=--=
DINGDINGDINGDING!!
Your husband's reluctance/refusal to negotiate with them is setting
them up to be unable to negotiate with each other.
Where does he think they get it?
If *I* don't negotiate with you, then I get my way, and you don't. I
win; you lose. So why negotiate? It works for dad (and all the other
adults I meet). I won't negotiate.
-=-=-=-=-=-
As for different desires: again with the negotiating. Clearly I need a
class or
two on negotiation skills because I get stuck with my kids. I ask them
to come
up with solutions and then one will say "no" out of spite. what to do
then?
when one child just doesn't want to cooperate?
-=-=-=-=-
What do they do when dad won't negotiate/cooperate?
-=-=-=-=-
And for the past 6 months or so Dakari has taken to yelling at me and
his two
sisters. It makes me very angry because he only does it with me - not
with my
sister or his father or his grandmother - just me. As a matter of
fact, they
only act this way with me period. whenever they are with someone else
and I'm
not around they are capable and willing. As soon as I step into the
picture
they start with whining, crying, and the helplessness (safiya and
dakari, not
khalid and khidar). What I am doing/not doing that is bringing this
out in
them? Maybe I'm exhausted as well. I'm open to all comments and
suggestions.
-=-=-=-=-=-
One thing may be that they only feel comfortable enough with you. Or it
could be that you "invite" it in some way. Don't know.
Exhaustion doesn't help!
Are you on the ConsensualLiving elist?
Maisha, I haven't heard back as to whether you and your family are
coming to the conference, but I can guarantee you will leave with more
skills that you came with. Your husband will see how children are when
they are respected (and negotiated with!).
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.