TV choices
Sylvia Toyama
The boys' choices in TV viewing continue to pose problems for us. Or
maybe it's our reaction to their choices.
It started out when Andy found Family Guy and Futurama. Gary was
really bothered by the shows, and complained mightily. I'm also
personally bothered by those shows and consider them inappropriate
for kids -- heck, honestly I consider them inappropriate for anyone.
They're crap, INMSHO -- mean-spirited, stupid and not funny, just
ugly.
All that said, I supported their right to choose their own TV shows.
For me it was a stance about autonomy and trusting our kids. Okay,
that was my high-minded argument anyway. Really, on a deeper level --
and having read so many people whose kids could choose to watch
undesirable shows but don'e -- I fully expected that soon the novelty
would wear off, and my sweet, kind, thoughtful kids would show their
true colors and watch something else -- anything else! It's been
several months now, and still he loves those shows. Gary is
beginning to really question whether I'm right to 'let' them watch
those shows. He'd really like to ban those shows, but I'm not really
comfortable -- at least in principle -- with banning anything. Even
Will, at 22, thinks I'm wrong to let his younger brothers watch those
shows. It's even harder for me when I agree in principle/theory, but
in reality their choices are indefensible.
So, on to today. Earlier tonight, I noticed that the boys were
really enjoying the dish preview of Boomerang (we don't subscribe to
Boomerang -- it's $20 extra where we live) watching it right thru the
them they'd normally watch Futurama. I quietly said to Gary "see,
when they have Boomerang to watch, they forget all about Futurama,
and maybe even Family Guy -- maybe we should think about boomerang
when we can afford it."
Just a few moments ago -- as I'm catching up on my DVR'd shows, Andy
comes out and asks me to set it up to DVR Futurama at midnight.
Also, they'd watched Family Guy, just in Andy's room where we don't
have to hear it (that's at our request, it's the best compromise we
could live with, since neither of us is willing to sit thru even one
episode of Family Guy). I said I had noticed he missed the earlier
run of Futurama watching boomerang, and did he really want to watch
crap when he had other choices? Of course, he was upset. I
apologized for calling it crap, but it was too late. Both boys know
how we feel about those shows, and I know no good is served by
reminding them we disapprove, but I'm just so tired of it all.
Here's my real problem tho -- we've both told them what we find
objectionable about those shows. Andy will still tell me jokes he
heard on those shows, or ask me about some storyline he didn't get,
and I answer his questions. I'll admit I sometimes point out how
much I dislike the show. Today, after he shared a particularly ugly
episode, I again explained what made that kind of humor unattractive
to others -- and unacceptable to his Dad.
I had been really, really hoping they'd move past that trash, but
they aren't and the longer it goes on, the harder it is for me to
defend their right to that choice -- even to myself.
What am I doing wrong here? What's wrong with my kids that they like
those shows and find that humor funny? What kind of people am I
raising?
Sylvia
maybe it's our reaction to their choices.
It started out when Andy found Family Guy and Futurama. Gary was
really bothered by the shows, and complained mightily. I'm also
personally bothered by those shows and consider them inappropriate
for kids -- heck, honestly I consider them inappropriate for anyone.
They're crap, INMSHO -- mean-spirited, stupid and not funny, just
ugly.
All that said, I supported their right to choose their own TV shows.
For me it was a stance about autonomy and trusting our kids. Okay,
that was my high-minded argument anyway. Really, on a deeper level --
and having read so many people whose kids could choose to watch
undesirable shows but don'e -- I fully expected that soon the novelty
would wear off, and my sweet, kind, thoughtful kids would show their
true colors and watch something else -- anything else! It's been
several months now, and still he loves those shows. Gary is
beginning to really question whether I'm right to 'let' them watch
those shows. He'd really like to ban those shows, but I'm not really
comfortable -- at least in principle -- with banning anything. Even
Will, at 22, thinks I'm wrong to let his younger brothers watch those
shows. It's even harder for me when I agree in principle/theory, but
in reality their choices are indefensible.
So, on to today. Earlier tonight, I noticed that the boys were
really enjoying the dish preview of Boomerang (we don't subscribe to
Boomerang -- it's $20 extra where we live) watching it right thru the
them they'd normally watch Futurama. I quietly said to Gary "see,
when they have Boomerang to watch, they forget all about Futurama,
and maybe even Family Guy -- maybe we should think about boomerang
when we can afford it."
Just a few moments ago -- as I'm catching up on my DVR'd shows, Andy
comes out and asks me to set it up to DVR Futurama at midnight.
Also, they'd watched Family Guy, just in Andy's room where we don't
have to hear it (that's at our request, it's the best compromise we
could live with, since neither of us is willing to sit thru even one
episode of Family Guy). I said I had noticed he missed the earlier
run of Futurama watching boomerang, and did he really want to watch
crap when he had other choices? Of course, he was upset. I
apologized for calling it crap, but it was too late. Both boys know
how we feel about those shows, and I know no good is served by
reminding them we disapprove, but I'm just so tired of it all.
Here's my real problem tho -- we've both told them what we find
objectionable about those shows. Andy will still tell me jokes he
heard on those shows, or ask me about some storyline he didn't get,
and I answer his questions. I'll admit I sometimes point out how
much I dislike the show. Today, after he shared a particularly ugly
episode, I again explained what made that kind of humor unattractive
to others -- and unacceptable to his Dad.
I had been really, really hoping they'd move past that trash, but
they aren't and the longer it goes on, the harder it is for me to
defend their right to that choice -- even to myself.
What am I doing wrong here? What's wrong with my kids that they like
those shows and find that humor funny? What kind of people am I
raising?
Sylvia
Sylvia Toyama
okay, so after I hit send, Andy and I talked a bit about it. When I apologized and told him that while I don't like those shows, and I support the principle that he and Dan can make their own choices, really I'd been expecting that they'd quickly grow past those shows. He said "it takes kids longer to get tired of that kind of funny -- we think stupid is funny." I replied that I understand kids think stupid is funny but that I worry watching that humor will lead to him thinking that kind of behavior is funny and okay in real life. He answered "I'm smarter than that, Mom." I pointed out that I know 30 or 40 yo people who still think that kind of thing is funny and I don't understand that. That if I knew an adult who found that funny, I'd have to wonder why."
Just now, he came out and told me "Mom, I think when I'm 15, or maybe 13, I'll feel that way -- what we talked about. Maybe then I won't think it's funny."
All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped will he already be watching that stuff?
I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I were dating a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last date, because eewww!
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just now, he came out and told me "Mom, I think when I'm 15, or maybe 13, I'll feel that way -- what we talked about. Maybe then I won't think it's funny."
All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped will he already be watching that stuff?
I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I were dating a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last date, because eewww!
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
I have a few thoughts about your dilemma. I hope it's helpful!
First, you know that "what you resist persists," right? The
attention you place on feeling yucky about these shows and your
obvious contempt for them (whether you have blatant contempt or only
thinly veiled contempt) is like a giant, lit-up arrow pointing right
at these shows. I believe this falls under the
there's-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity category. All the grousing
that you and Gary are doing about these shows is not allowing these
shows to take a smaller role in Andy and Dan's lives. Can you see that?
Consider this perhaps: You have made it plain here through this
electronic medium that you feel quite judgmental about these shows
*and* even judgmental about folks who like those shows. If I'm able
to pick that feeling up here at my computer, and I'm not even in the
same room with you, image what vibes Andy and Dan are picking up from
you and Gary! Is it possible (and, I'm not saying it is) that the
personal judgment they may be feeling from you and Gary could be more
harmful than enjoying stupid humor? Is it possible that you may be
inflicting a little shame on them for liking what you feel is not likeable?
Turns out, Liam (my 12-year-old son) really likes those two
shows. His life, however, does not revolve around them. He's not
even really willing to stay up to watch them if he's tired. But, if
he has a friend staying over, then they'll definitely watch the
shows. I've been invited to watch with him/them, and if I can I
do. Or, I might tell him that it's just not my cup of tea. But, if
he wants to tell me about something he found to be funny, I give him
the attention that I would give anyone who wants to share something
with me that *they* appreciate. I give him the same attention that
*I* would want someone to give me!
I certainly would not want someone to pass judgment about my
character based on my entertainment preferences! I would not want to
defend myself to anyone about them.
A couple of more thoughts: First, a lot of the raunchier humor in
those two shows goes right over Liam's head. Perhaps it's that way
for your sons, too?
Also, I used to really *not* like that show Ed, Edd, and Eddy, but
Liam really, really liked it. I kept my feelings *entirely* to
myself as best I could and I'd watch it with him whenever I
could. Sure 'nuff, he *detests* the show now! One of the things
that I didn't like about the show was that the personality traits
some of the characters had were awful!! But, I could see how Liam
could hang on to his own good character and still find that show
funny. Just because he found the show funny did not mean he was
going to be like those characters!
It's really important to remember that a TV show really does not have
the kind of influence on a person's personality that a person's peers
has. In other words, kids generally are influenced by who they hang
with most often (which is you, right?). Andy's assertion that he is
"smarter than that" is an important one. If you can accept that he
can watch and enjoy really stupid stuff and yet not *be* stupid, you
can let go of a lot of your fears and judgments. Then, his decision
to watch or not watch can be based purely on what he thinks and feels
and not as a reaction to your reaction. Know what I mean?
Anywhoo, them's my thoughts! I hope it's helpful!
Marji (never a big fan of TV anyway, but Liam and I are two entirely
different people, and he is allowed to be who HE is; he doesn't have to be me!)
At 01:12 4/18/2007, you wrote:
First, you know that "what you resist persists," right? The
attention you place on feeling yucky about these shows and your
obvious contempt for them (whether you have blatant contempt or only
thinly veiled contempt) is like a giant, lit-up arrow pointing right
at these shows. I believe this falls under the
there's-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity category. All the grousing
that you and Gary are doing about these shows is not allowing these
shows to take a smaller role in Andy and Dan's lives. Can you see that?
Consider this perhaps: You have made it plain here through this
electronic medium that you feel quite judgmental about these shows
*and* even judgmental about folks who like those shows. If I'm able
to pick that feeling up here at my computer, and I'm not even in the
same room with you, image what vibes Andy and Dan are picking up from
you and Gary! Is it possible (and, I'm not saying it is) that the
personal judgment they may be feeling from you and Gary could be more
harmful than enjoying stupid humor? Is it possible that you may be
inflicting a little shame on them for liking what you feel is not likeable?
Turns out, Liam (my 12-year-old son) really likes those two
shows. His life, however, does not revolve around them. He's not
even really willing to stay up to watch them if he's tired. But, if
he has a friend staying over, then they'll definitely watch the
shows. I've been invited to watch with him/them, and if I can I
do. Or, I might tell him that it's just not my cup of tea. But, if
he wants to tell me about something he found to be funny, I give him
the attention that I would give anyone who wants to share something
with me that *they* appreciate. I give him the same attention that
*I* would want someone to give me!
I certainly would not want someone to pass judgment about my
character based on my entertainment preferences! I would not want to
defend myself to anyone about them.
A couple of more thoughts: First, a lot of the raunchier humor in
those two shows goes right over Liam's head. Perhaps it's that way
for your sons, too?
Also, I used to really *not* like that show Ed, Edd, and Eddy, but
Liam really, really liked it. I kept my feelings *entirely* to
myself as best I could and I'd watch it with him whenever I
could. Sure 'nuff, he *detests* the show now! One of the things
that I didn't like about the show was that the personality traits
some of the characters had were awful!! But, I could see how Liam
could hang on to his own good character and still find that show
funny. Just because he found the show funny did not mean he was
going to be like those characters!
It's really important to remember that a TV show really does not have
the kind of influence on a person's personality that a person's peers
has. In other words, kids generally are influenced by who they hang
with most often (which is you, right?). Andy's assertion that he is
"smarter than that" is an important one. If you can accept that he
can watch and enjoy really stupid stuff and yet not *be* stupid, you
can let go of a lot of your fears and judgments. Then, his decision
to watch or not watch can be based purely on what he thinks and feels
and not as a reaction to your reaction. Know what I mean?
Anywhoo, them's my thoughts! I hope it's helpful!
Marji (never a big fan of TV anyway, but Liam and I are two entirely
different people, and he is allowed to be who HE is; he doesn't have to be me!)
At 01:12 4/18/2007, you wrote:
>The boys' choices in TV viewing continue to pose problems for us. Or[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>maybe it's our reaction to their choices.
>
>It started out when Andy found Family Guy and Futurama. Gary was
>really bothered by the shows, and complained mightily. I'm also
>personally bothered by those shows and consider them inappropriate
>for kids -- heck, honestly I consider them inappropriate for anyone.
>They're crap, INMSHO -- mean-spirited, stupid and not funny, just
>ugly...
marji
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
wrote:
54 years old, and he thinks they are outlandish. Does he behave that
way or live that way? Of course not!! He's an intelligent, very
sensitive person. He's a classical/jazz musician. He attends a lot
of spiritual workshops, etc. But, he likes the writing on those two
shows and also the Simpsons. He also likes "crazy" people.
There are some movies that we have seen that he liked and I didn't
care for, but that doesn't make me admire him as a person any less!
And, he is *not* mysogynistic, racist, or homophobic in any way (if he
is, he does a great job of keeping it to himself). He does not speak
harshly of others or try to cheat people. I do not believe he would
enjoy the company of an actual flesh-and-blood person who behaves the
way they do in FG or Futurama, but he thinks the *shows* are funny. I
can see that.
~Marji (who's grateful that Liam has someone to enjoy those shows with
and it doesn't have to be me!)
wrote:
>By the way, actually, my husband really likes those two shows. He's
>I pointed out that I know 30 or 40 yo people who still think that
>kind of thing is funny and I don't understand that. That if I knew
>an adult who found that funny, I'd have to wonder why."
54 years old, and he thinks they are outlandish. Does he behave that
way or live that way? Of course not!! He's an intelligent, very
sensitive person. He's a classical/jazz musician. He attends a lot
of spiritual workshops, etc. But, he likes the writing on those two
shows and also the Simpsons. He also likes "crazy" people.
There are some movies that we have seen that he liked and I didn't
care for, but that doesn't make me admire him as a person any less!
And, he is *not* mysogynistic, racist, or homophobic in any way (if he
is, he does a great job of keeping it to himself). He does not speak
harshly of others or try to cheat people. I do not believe he would
enjoy the company of an actual flesh-and-blood person who behaves the
way they do in FG or Futurama, but he thinks the *shows* are funny. I
can see that.
~Marji (who's grateful that Liam has someone to enjoy those shows with
and it doesn't have to be me!)
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 18, 2007, at 1:12 AM, Sylvia Toyama wrote:
You're *expecting* your kids to be something you picture them as
rather than accepting who they are. And you're being disappointed by
their actions. You're being frustrated that they aren't molding
themselves into your vision of them. You're telling them why you
don't like those shows and *expecting* that they'll eventually see
why you're right and they're wrong. I think you're taking in what
they say about the shows but listening only enough to hear whether
they're growing to agree with you. You aren't *really* listening to
them. You aren't working at understanding why they enjoy the shows.
You're working to get them to see the shows through *your* eyes and
aren't working to see the show through *their* eyes. You wonder why
they aren't changing to your point of view and aren't even trying to
see their point of view. You understand letting kids make their own
choices intellectually but it's come up against reality and your
feelings are blocking you from putting it into practice. We have to
let them choose even stuff we don't like!
You're *assuming* that because they enjoy a certain type of humor
that they want to be like that. What foundation does that fear have?
What evidence do you have that watching or even being drawn to a
certain interest changes who someone is? Do kids who play video games
*become* violent? Or are there two types of kids who may end up
playing violent video games: Those who get a thrill from
*vicariously* doing what they don't want to do in real life, and
those who are filled with rage because of a horrid home life and want
to hurt things? (There's probably a whole spectrum in between.)
They said that both Boris Karloff and the woman who played the Wicked
Witch in Wizard of Oz were very sweet people. I'm a peaceful person
and really hate destroying things in real life, but I enjoy the
Godzilla and Super Smash Brothers video games and fantasy and science
fiction action movies where things get sliced and diced and blown up.
People enjoy lots of stuff through entertainment that they don't want
to experience in real life. I might appreciate the skills of a ninja
to kill of a dozen people without a sound, but I wouldn't want to
live a life where that's probable! I wouldn't want to go through
what's needed to become someone who could do that. Appreciating
something isn't the same as wanting it for yourself.
I think you need to watch the shows and give it a truly honest try. I
think instead of trying to get them to change their minds you need to
find out what it is they enjoy. Talk to them. Ask them what they like
and what they don't like. *Don't* project their likes into some
future warping. There's no evidence that what we enjoy in
entertainment says anything about how we act in society. Far as I
know Stephen King doesn't have dead bodies in his basement ;-) He's
still married to his original wife and has 3 grown kids. *Could* you
project that from looking at what he enjoys for entertainment?
It may be that you won't be able to enjoy the shows for yourself. But
it will help build a relationship with them if you work up an
appreciation for their appreciation. It may be that those shows will
always be liver to you, but your kids wouldn't want to live in an
atmosphere of people always negatively commenting on their choice of
liver at a restaurant in order to try to change their minds and think
"right".
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What am I doing wrong here? What's wrong with my kids that they likeThis last sentence summarizes what you're doing wrong.
> those shows and find that humor funny? What kind of people am I
> raising?
You're *expecting* your kids to be something you picture them as
rather than accepting who they are. And you're being disappointed by
their actions. You're being frustrated that they aren't molding
themselves into your vision of them. You're telling them why you
don't like those shows and *expecting* that they'll eventually see
why you're right and they're wrong. I think you're taking in what
they say about the shows but listening only enough to hear whether
they're growing to agree with you. You aren't *really* listening to
them. You aren't working at understanding why they enjoy the shows.
You're working to get them to see the shows through *your* eyes and
aren't working to see the show through *their* eyes. You wonder why
they aren't changing to your point of view and aren't even trying to
see their point of view. You understand letting kids make their own
choices intellectually but it's come up against reality and your
feelings are blocking you from putting it into practice. We have to
let them choose even stuff we don't like!
You're *assuming* that because they enjoy a certain type of humor
that they want to be like that. What foundation does that fear have?
What evidence do you have that watching or even being drawn to a
certain interest changes who someone is? Do kids who play video games
*become* violent? Or are there two types of kids who may end up
playing violent video games: Those who get a thrill from
*vicariously* doing what they don't want to do in real life, and
those who are filled with rage because of a horrid home life and want
to hurt things? (There's probably a whole spectrum in between.)
They said that both Boris Karloff and the woman who played the Wicked
Witch in Wizard of Oz were very sweet people. I'm a peaceful person
and really hate destroying things in real life, but I enjoy the
Godzilla and Super Smash Brothers video games and fantasy and science
fiction action movies where things get sliced and diced and blown up.
People enjoy lots of stuff through entertainment that they don't want
to experience in real life. I might appreciate the skills of a ninja
to kill of a dozen people without a sound, but I wouldn't want to
live a life where that's probable! I wouldn't want to go through
what's needed to become someone who could do that. Appreciating
something isn't the same as wanting it for yourself.
I think you need to watch the shows and give it a truly honest try. I
think instead of trying to get them to change their minds you need to
find out what it is they enjoy. Talk to them. Ask them what they like
and what they don't like. *Don't* project their likes into some
future warping. There's no evidence that what we enjoy in
entertainment says anything about how we act in society. Far as I
know Stephen King doesn't have dead bodies in his basement ;-) He's
still married to his original wife and has 3 grown kids. *Could* you
project that from looking at what he enjoys for entertainment?
It may be that you won't be able to enjoy the shows for yourself. But
it will help build a relationship with them if you work up an
appreciation for their appreciation. It may be that those shows will
always be liver to you, but your kids wouldn't want to live in an
atmosphere of people always negatively commenting on their choice of
liver at a restaurant in order to try to change their minds and think
"right".
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: sylgt04@...
***I replied that I
understand kids think stupid is funny but that I worry watching that
humor will
lead to him thinking that kind of behavior is funny and okay in real
life. ***
-=-=-=-=-
Do you REALLY???
-=-=-=-=-
*** He answered "I'm smarter than that, Mom." ***
-=-=-=-=-
I think he's right.
-=-=-=
***I pointed out that I know 30 or 40 yo
people who still think that kind of thing is funny and I don't
understand that.
That if I knew an adult who found that funny, I'd have to wonder why."
***
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm 46 and think that Stewie and Brian are a HOOT.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
****Just now, he came out and told me "Mom, I think when I'm 15, or
maybe 13, I'll
feel that way -- what we talked about. Maybe then I won't think it's
funny." ****
-=-=-=-=-=-
Maybe or maybe not. But it's really OK.
But he's being more mature than you are a this point: he's trying to
make *you* feel good about your position. He's going out of his way to
let you know your feelings are validated and heard.
-=-=-=-=-=-
**** All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped
will he already
be watching that stuff?***
-=-=-=-=-
Warped enough to hang out at my house. <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-
***I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I
were dating
a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last
date, because
eewww!****
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron will be hurt. <g>
I'm not a big fam of Aqua Teen Hunger Force (Ben's taking Dunc to see
that this weekend) or Robot Chicken or Something-Lab-Numbers (Can't
remember the name--underwater thing---AquaLab2000??? I can't remember).
So I don't watch them.
I find Futurama smart and sharp---and vaguely reminiscent of the 70s.
<g> Family Guy too---it has lots of 70s references that I have to
explain---through the tears. Good thing we have TiVo!
South Park can make me cringe at times, but I do it through the
laughter. I'm either laughing, cringeing, or sitting there with my
mouth agape in stunned silence---before I'm laughing again.
ALL of these (plus the Simpsons) have opened up sooooo many avenues for
deep discussions. Vulgar, yes---but most of that goes over Dunc's
head---unless we're laughing so hard that we have to explain. <G>
Sorry, Sylvia! Big fans here! Will you still come to the conference?
<bwg>
Seriously, watching these shows will not make them bad people. All four
of us (five with the girlfriend) have pretty level heads---and none of
us believe that dogs smoke, drink Martinis, or talk. <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: sylgt04@...
***I replied that I
understand kids think stupid is funny but that I worry watching that
humor will
lead to him thinking that kind of behavior is funny and okay in real
life. ***
-=-=-=-=-
Do you REALLY???
-=-=-=-=-
*** He answered "I'm smarter than that, Mom." ***
-=-=-=-=-
I think he's right.
-=-=-=
***I pointed out that I know 30 or 40 yo
people who still think that kind of thing is funny and I don't
understand that.
That if I knew an adult who found that funny, I'd have to wonder why."
***
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I'm 46 and think that Stewie and Brian are a HOOT.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
****Just now, he came out and told me "Mom, I think when I'm 15, or
maybe 13, I'll
feel that way -- what we talked about. Maybe then I won't think it's
funny." ****
-=-=-=-=-=-
Maybe or maybe not. But it's really OK.
But he's being more mature than you are a this point: he's trying to
make *you* feel good about your position. He's going out of his way to
let you know your feelings are validated and heard.
-=-=-=-=-=-
**** All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped
will he already
be watching that stuff?***
-=-=-=-=-
Warped enough to hang out at my house. <bwg>
-=-=-=-=-
***I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I
were dating
a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last
date, because
eewww!****
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron will be hurt. <g>
I'm not a big fam of Aqua Teen Hunger Force (Ben's taking Dunc to see
that this weekend) or Robot Chicken or Something-Lab-Numbers (Can't
remember the name--underwater thing---AquaLab2000??? I can't remember).
So I don't watch them.
I find Futurama smart and sharp---and vaguely reminiscent of the 70s.
<g> Family Guy too---it has lots of 70s references that I have to
explain---through the tears. Good thing we have TiVo!
South Park can make me cringe at times, but I do it through the
laughter. I'm either laughing, cringeing, or sitting there with my
mouth agape in stunned silence---before I'm laughing again.
ALL of these (plus the Simpsons) have opened up sooooo many avenues for
deep discussions. Vulgar, yes---but most of that goes over Dunc's
head---unless we're laughing so hard that we have to explain. <G>
Sorry, Sylvia! Big fans here! Will you still come to the conference?
<bwg>
Seriously, watching these shows will not make them bad people. All four
of us (five with the girlfriend) have pretty level heads---and none of
us believe that dogs smoke, drink Martinis, or talk. <bwg>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
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-----Original Message-----
From: sylgt04@...
What am I doing wrong here?
-=-=-=-
Calling it trash, crap, and explaining how bad it is. Thinking that
there's something WRONG with your kids (and others) for liking it.
-=-=-=-=-=-
What's wrong with my kids that they like those shows and find that
humor funny?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Absolutely nothing. Some people hate The Three Stooges' humor. Does
that make them wrong too? What about David Letterman (I can't stand to
be in the room when he's on)? Woody Allen? Jerry Seinfeld? Adam Sandler
grates against every nerve I posess. But I *can* see that others do
find them all funny.
Humor is personal.
It's a really good thing we all didn't latch on to Tom & Jerry's humor!
We'd all be dropping anvils on each others' heads! HAHAHA!
-=--=-=-
What kind of people am I raising?
-=-=-=-=-
I can't think of an uglier statement. :-(
You're raising fine young men. (well, the two I know. <g>) And they
will grow up to be fine men who think Futurama and Family Guy are
funny---and that's fine.
Thinking and hoping that they will drop their funny bones because it
doesn't jive with yours is horribly sad. Laughter is SOOO
powerful---even if it's a bit ...*off*. They won't *become* Peter or
Chris or Stewie---any more than you and I have become The Roadrunner
and Wile E. Coyote!
beepbeep!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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From: sylgt04@...
What am I doing wrong here?
-=-=-=-
Calling it trash, crap, and explaining how bad it is. Thinking that
there's something WRONG with your kids (and others) for liking it.
-=-=-=-=-=-
What's wrong with my kids that they like those shows and find that
humor funny?
-=-=-=-=-=-
Absolutely nothing. Some people hate The Three Stooges' humor. Does
that make them wrong too? What about David Letterman (I can't stand to
be in the room when he's on)? Woody Allen? Jerry Seinfeld? Adam Sandler
grates against every nerve I posess. But I *can* see that others do
find them all funny.
Humor is personal.
It's a really good thing we all didn't latch on to Tom & Jerry's humor!
We'd all be dropping anvils on each others' heads! HAHAHA!
-=--=-=-
What kind of people am I raising?
-=-=-=-=-
I can't think of an uglier statement. :-(
You're raising fine young men. (well, the two I know. <g>) And they
will grow up to be fine men who think Futurama and Family Guy are
funny---and that's fine.
Thinking and hoping that they will drop their funny bones because it
doesn't jive with yours is horribly sad. Laughter is SOOO
powerful---even if it's a bit ...*off*. They won't *become* Peter or
Chris or Stewie---any more than you and I have become The Roadrunner
and Wile E. Coyote!
beepbeep!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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from AOL at AOL.com.
Debra Rossing
You've told them what you dislike about those shows. What is it they
*like* about those shows? The gross humor (lots of bodily noises and
such)? Being able to experiment, virtually through these characters,
with behaviors they have never seen/heard? If, by the time he's 13 or
whatever and he chooses not to watch that anymore, will he really be
"warped" by it or will he have had his fill of farts and burps and butt
cracks and moved on?
I remember when DS started watching Spongebob. I sat and watched one or
two episodes and REALLY disliked it - it was lots of put-downs,
sarcastic "humor", rude behavior. Some episodes were even kind of
'dark'. I let DS know that my choice was to just go someplace else while
he watched that because ... and I pointed out specific issues I had with
it. Then I dropped it. When it came on, I'd quietly just 'drift' off to
someplace else - read a magazine in the next room or whatever. Same
thing I'd do if DH wanted to watch a somewhat scary movie. My choice to
leave or not, their choice to watch or not. There are times when DS
chooses to watch something I dislike. Other times, he'd rather find a
compromise something in the moment, knowing he can watch whatever it is
later sometime, when I'm at work or doing dishes or whatever. Over time,
however, he hasn't picked up any of the negative stuff. He's all about
the relationships and the funny stuff.
I agree with your DS - he probably is lots smarter than you're giving
him credit for. And, too, what IF he did continue on to think that it
was funny when he was 20 or 30 or 40 years old? There -are- other adults
out there who -also- would think it was funny (there are adults who
write these shows after all). Just because -you- wouldn't date him
doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of others his age who would love to
date a guy who loves the same shows, has the same memories of watching
certain shows, that they have.
Deb
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*like* about those shows? The gross humor (lots of bodily noises and
such)? Being able to experiment, virtually through these characters,
with behaviors they have never seen/heard? If, by the time he's 13 or
whatever and he chooses not to watch that anymore, will he really be
"warped" by it or will he have had his fill of farts and burps and butt
cracks and moved on?
I remember when DS started watching Spongebob. I sat and watched one or
two episodes and REALLY disliked it - it was lots of put-downs,
sarcastic "humor", rude behavior. Some episodes were even kind of
'dark'. I let DS know that my choice was to just go someplace else while
he watched that because ... and I pointed out specific issues I had with
it. Then I dropped it. When it came on, I'd quietly just 'drift' off to
someplace else - read a magazine in the next room or whatever. Same
thing I'd do if DH wanted to watch a somewhat scary movie. My choice to
leave or not, their choice to watch or not. There are times when DS
chooses to watch something I dislike. Other times, he'd rather find a
compromise something in the moment, knowing he can watch whatever it is
later sometime, when I'm at work or doing dishes or whatever. Over time,
however, he hasn't picked up any of the negative stuff. He's all about
the relationships and the funny stuff.
I agree with your DS - he probably is lots smarter than you're giving
him credit for. And, too, what IF he did continue on to think that it
was funny when he was 20 or 30 or 40 years old? There -are- other adults
out there who -also- would think it was funny (there are adults who
write these shows after all). Just because -you- wouldn't date him
doesn't mean there aren't a bunch of others his age who would love to
date a guy who loves the same shows, has the same memories of watching
certain shows, that they have.
Deb
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Sylvia Toyama
But, if he wants to tell me about something he found to be funny, I give him the attention that I would give anyone who wants to share something with me that *they* appreciate. I give him the same attention that *I* would want someone to give me!
*****
I do listen, and we talk about why such a joke/story would be funny -- the context behind the joke and so on. Gary won't listen at all, so Andy doesn't even try to share that with him anymore. I figure, even when I don't like the humor, I want to know what Andy is getting from what he watches and to better understand what he's thinking.
And I really want to find some way to be comfortable with this. I'm not naive enough to think this will be the last time Andy will choose something we don't understand or like. Hey, I have a limewire download file filled with band names like Goatwhore and Eyehategod -- stuff Will downloads -- so I know my kids aren't always going to make the same choices I do. <g> I just want to reach some level where it's less stressful for me to know what they're choosing.
*****
I certainly would not want someone to pass judgment about my character based on my entertainment preferences! I would not want to defend myself to anyone about them.
******
I know it's my junk and I really would like to get to the point where I don't feel so judgmental about it.
Something even harder for me to understand happened later with Andy. He came in and told me about the ending of a Duck Dodgers cartoon he'd watched where the villain/opponent (I'm not sure what to call the little boy) had come in and stolen all of Duck's food/dinner, as the show ended. That was to be end gag, I guess and probably considered funny by the viewers. At first Andy shared it as if it were funny, but within minutes he was crying - yes, actually crying -- at how sad it was that Duck now had no food, and why had that little boy been so mean? But he finds it hilarious when Stewie is inside an exercise ball painted black, rolling around bumping into things? Okay, what's going on here -- starving cartoon ducks are sad, but cartoon babies bouncing around like a blind pinball is funny? Help me out here....
*****
A couple of more thoughts: First, a lot of the raunchier humor in those two shows goes right over Liam's head. Perhaps it's that way for your sons, too?
****
I'm sure it goes over Dan's head, but Andy tells the jokes and laughs -- he very obviously finds it funny. I usually explain context to help him understand why others might not find it funny, or even find it offensive.
*****
Also, I used to really *not* like that show Ed, Edd, and Eddy, but liam really, really liked it. I kept my feelings *entirely* to myself as best I could and I'd watch it with him whenever I
could. Sure 'nuff, he *detests* the show now! One of the things that I didn't like about the show was that the personality traits some of the characters had were awful!! But, I could see how Liam could hang on to his own good character and still find that show funny. Just because he found the show funny did not mean he was going to be like those characters!
*****
I'm not crazy about the Eds myself -- but they can be pretty funny at times, and totally not as mean-spirited as Family Guy. Both boys love the Eds and I'm okay with that.
****
It's really important to remember that a TV show really does not have the kind of influence on a person's personality that a person's peers has. In other words, kids generally are influenced by who they hang with most often (which is you, right?). Andy's assertion that he is "smarter than that" is an important one. If you can accept that he can watch and enjoy really stupid stuff and yet not *be* stupid, you can let go of a lot of your fears and judgments. Then, his decision to watch or not watch can be based purely on what he thinks and feels and not as a reaction to your reaction. Know what I mean?
*****
I don't really worry as much about its influence as I'm perplexed by why he finds it funny. And, for the record, I don't mind that it's stupid -- but I'm really uncomfortable with how mean-spirited the show is. And on some level, if a person finds that funny, I have to wonder how 'safe' that person is to me, given my own sensitivities.
Lots more to think about tho.... off to read more replies.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****
I do listen, and we talk about why such a joke/story would be funny -- the context behind the joke and so on. Gary won't listen at all, so Andy doesn't even try to share that with him anymore. I figure, even when I don't like the humor, I want to know what Andy is getting from what he watches and to better understand what he's thinking.
And I really want to find some way to be comfortable with this. I'm not naive enough to think this will be the last time Andy will choose something we don't understand or like. Hey, I have a limewire download file filled with band names like Goatwhore and Eyehategod -- stuff Will downloads -- so I know my kids aren't always going to make the same choices I do. <g> I just want to reach some level where it's less stressful for me to know what they're choosing.
*****
I certainly would not want someone to pass judgment about my character based on my entertainment preferences! I would not want to defend myself to anyone about them.
******
I know it's my junk and I really would like to get to the point where I don't feel so judgmental about it.
Something even harder for me to understand happened later with Andy. He came in and told me about the ending of a Duck Dodgers cartoon he'd watched where the villain/opponent (I'm not sure what to call the little boy) had come in and stolen all of Duck's food/dinner, as the show ended. That was to be end gag, I guess and probably considered funny by the viewers. At first Andy shared it as if it were funny, but within minutes he was crying - yes, actually crying -- at how sad it was that Duck now had no food, and why had that little boy been so mean? But he finds it hilarious when Stewie is inside an exercise ball painted black, rolling around bumping into things? Okay, what's going on here -- starving cartoon ducks are sad, but cartoon babies bouncing around like a blind pinball is funny? Help me out here....
*****
A couple of more thoughts: First, a lot of the raunchier humor in those two shows goes right over Liam's head. Perhaps it's that way for your sons, too?
****
I'm sure it goes over Dan's head, but Andy tells the jokes and laughs -- he very obviously finds it funny. I usually explain context to help him understand why others might not find it funny, or even find it offensive.
*****
Also, I used to really *not* like that show Ed, Edd, and Eddy, but liam really, really liked it. I kept my feelings *entirely* to myself as best I could and I'd watch it with him whenever I
could. Sure 'nuff, he *detests* the show now! One of the things that I didn't like about the show was that the personality traits some of the characters had were awful!! But, I could see how Liam could hang on to his own good character and still find that show funny. Just because he found the show funny did not mean he was going to be like those characters!
*****
I'm not crazy about the Eds myself -- but they can be pretty funny at times, and totally not as mean-spirited as Family Guy. Both boys love the Eds and I'm okay with that.
****
It's really important to remember that a TV show really does not have the kind of influence on a person's personality that a person's peers has. In other words, kids generally are influenced by who they hang with most often (which is you, right?). Andy's assertion that he is "smarter than that" is an important one. If you can accept that he can watch and enjoy really stupid stuff and yet not *be* stupid, you can let go of a lot of your fears and judgments. Then, his decision to watch or not watch can be based purely on what he thinks and feels and not as a reaction to your reaction. Know what I mean?
*****
I don't really worry as much about its influence as I'm perplexed by why he finds it funny. And, for the record, I don't mind that it's stupid -- but I'm really uncomfortable with how mean-spirited the show is. And on some level, if a person finds that funny, I have to wonder how 'safe' that person is to me, given my own sensitivities.
Lots more to think about tho.... off to read more replies.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
And, he is *not* mysogynistic, racist, or homophobic in any way (if he is, he does a great job of keeping it to himself). He does not speak harshly of others or try to cheat people. I do not believe he would enjoy the company of an actual flesh-and-blood person who behaves the way they do in FG or Futurama, but he thinks the *shows* are funny. I can see that.
****
And that sums up my confusion about those shows -- how can one find that funny and not be mysognisitc, racist and homophobic? Really an honest question -- how? It's what I keep coming back to, and I'm not sure how to get past that perception on my part.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
And that sums up my confusion about those shows -- how can one find that funny and not be mysognisitc, racist and homophobic? Really an honest question -- how? It's what I keep coming back to, and I'm not sure how to get past that perception on my part.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
You're *expecting* your kids to be something you picture them as rather than accepting who they are. And you're being disappointed by their actions. You're being frustrated that they aren't molding themselves into your vision of them. You're telling them why you
don't like those shows and *expecting* that they'll eventually see why you're right and they're wrong. I think you're taking in what they say about the shows but listening only enough to hear whether they're growing to agree with you.
***
Oh, I know this is what I'm doing. I'm channelling my Mom at those moments, except that she did ban anything she found unacceptable. And I really want to get past this, but it's proving really hard for me, on a very personal and scary level.
Also, before I go on, I really do appreciate what you have to say -- that's why I posted this here, because I wanted to hear from you and Ren and Kelly -- other Moms who won't let me get away with anything.
*****
You aren't *really* listening to them. You aren't working at understanding why they enjoy the shows. You're working to get them to see the shows through *your* eyes and aren't working to see the show through *their* eyes. You wonder why they aren't changing to your point of view and aren't even trying to see their point of view. You understand letting kids make their own choices intellectually but it's come up against reality and your feelings are blocking you from putting it into practice. We have to let them choose even stuff we don't like!
*****
I agree with the principle of them choosing to watch/hear/see stuff we don't like. It's in reality in my house that's uncomfortable, and scares me. When even Will -- who has some out there tastes -- tells me Andy is too young to watch those shows and looks at me like I'm out of my mind that I wonder. When even my 22yo son thinks his younger brother is too young for it, am I still right or have I gone too far in 'letting' the boys choose for themselves?
*****
You're *assuming* that because they enjoy a certain type of humor that they want to be like that. What foundation does that fear have? What evidence do you have that watching or even being drawn to a certain interest changes who someone is? Do kids who play video games *become* violent? Or are there two types of kids who may end up playing violent video games: Those who get a thrill from *vicariously* doing what they don't want to do in real life, and those who are filled with rage because of a horrid home life and want to hurt things? (There's probably a whole spectrum in between.)
*****
hhmmm.... I don't really believe that violent video games lead to violence, but for some reason the TV thing is harder for me to tease out. What fear do I have? I need to sit with that one for a while.
*****
People enjoy lots of stuff through entertainment that they don't want to experience in real life. I might appreciate the skills of a ninja to kill of a dozen people without a sound, but I wouldn't want to live a life where that's probable! I wouldn't want to go through what's needed to become someone who could do that. Appreciating something isn't the same as wanting it for yourself.
*****
I can see this -- when you explain it, but when my kids try to defend the same principle, it scares me.
*****
I think you need to watch the shows and give it a truly honest try. I think instead of trying to get them to change their minds you need to find out what it is they enjoy. Talk to them. Ask them what they like and what they don't like. *Don't* project their likes into some future warping. There's no evidence that what we enjoy in entertainment says anything about how we act in society. Far as I know Stephen King doesn't have dead bodies in his basement ;-) He's still married to his original wife and has 3 grown kids. *Could* you project that from looking at what he enjoys for entertainment?
*****
I've watched the shows several times -- I just can't sit thru it anymore. I know when I watched Andy was hoping I'd enoy it, but I just can't pretend I like it. He's just as fervently hoping his influence will affect me as I am hoping mine will influence him -- and I'm just not able to meet him halfway on this one. Not yet anyway.
*****
It may be that you won't be able to enjoy the shows for yourself. But it will help build a relationship with them if you work up an appreciation for their appreciation. It may be that those shows will always be liver to you, but your kids wouldn't want to live in an atmosphere of people always negatively commenting on their choice of liver at a restaurant in order to try to change their minds and think "right".
****
I can see the argument you're making, but this is way more disgusting than even liver to me <g>
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
don't like those shows and *expecting* that they'll eventually see why you're right and they're wrong. I think you're taking in what they say about the shows but listening only enough to hear whether they're growing to agree with you.
***
Oh, I know this is what I'm doing. I'm channelling my Mom at those moments, except that she did ban anything she found unacceptable. And I really want to get past this, but it's proving really hard for me, on a very personal and scary level.
Also, before I go on, I really do appreciate what you have to say -- that's why I posted this here, because I wanted to hear from you and Ren and Kelly -- other Moms who won't let me get away with anything.
*****
You aren't *really* listening to them. You aren't working at understanding why they enjoy the shows. You're working to get them to see the shows through *your* eyes and aren't working to see the show through *their* eyes. You wonder why they aren't changing to your point of view and aren't even trying to see their point of view. You understand letting kids make their own choices intellectually but it's come up against reality and your feelings are blocking you from putting it into practice. We have to let them choose even stuff we don't like!
*****
I agree with the principle of them choosing to watch/hear/see stuff we don't like. It's in reality in my house that's uncomfortable, and scares me. When even Will -- who has some out there tastes -- tells me Andy is too young to watch those shows and looks at me like I'm out of my mind that I wonder. When even my 22yo son thinks his younger brother is too young for it, am I still right or have I gone too far in 'letting' the boys choose for themselves?
*****
You're *assuming* that because they enjoy a certain type of humor that they want to be like that. What foundation does that fear have? What evidence do you have that watching or even being drawn to a certain interest changes who someone is? Do kids who play video games *become* violent? Or are there two types of kids who may end up playing violent video games: Those who get a thrill from *vicariously* doing what they don't want to do in real life, and those who are filled with rage because of a horrid home life and want to hurt things? (There's probably a whole spectrum in between.)
*****
hhmmm.... I don't really believe that violent video games lead to violence, but for some reason the TV thing is harder for me to tease out. What fear do I have? I need to sit with that one for a while.
*****
People enjoy lots of stuff through entertainment that they don't want to experience in real life. I might appreciate the skills of a ninja to kill of a dozen people without a sound, but I wouldn't want to live a life where that's probable! I wouldn't want to go through what's needed to become someone who could do that. Appreciating something isn't the same as wanting it for yourself.
*****
I can see this -- when you explain it, but when my kids try to defend the same principle, it scares me.
*****
I think you need to watch the shows and give it a truly honest try. I think instead of trying to get them to change their minds you need to find out what it is they enjoy. Talk to them. Ask them what they like and what they don't like. *Don't* project their likes into some future warping. There's no evidence that what we enjoy in entertainment says anything about how we act in society. Far as I know Stephen King doesn't have dead bodies in his basement ;-) He's still married to his original wife and has 3 grown kids. *Could* you project that from looking at what he enjoys for entertainment?
*****
I've watched the shows several times -- I just can't sit thru it anymore. I know when I watched Andy was hoping I'd enoy it, but I just can't pretend I like it. He's just as fervently hoping his influence will affect me as I am hoping mine will influence him -- and I'm just not able to meet him halfway on this one. Not yet anyway.
*****
It may be that you won't be able to enjoy the shows for yourself. But it will help build a relationship with them if you work up an appreciation for their appreciation. It may be that those shows will always be liver to you, but your kids wouldn't want to live in an atmosphere of people always negatively commenting on their choice of liver at a restaurant in order to try to change their minds and think "right".
****
I can see the argument you're making, but this is way more disgusting than even liver to me <g>
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
I replied that I understand kids think stupid is funny but that I worry watching that
humor will lead to him thinking that kind of behavior is funny and okay in real life. ***
-=-=-=-=-
Do you REALLY???
****
Yeah I do. Even knowing I'm probably wrong. It's just a very visceral thing -- and frightening for me. I just said to Gary how Will is the finished project (who listens to Cannibal Corpse ::shudder:: and we didn't even let him watch the Simpsons! I really do wonder what damage I'm allowing to Andy.
I know on a rational level I'm probably very wrong, but on a personal, in-my-head level, yeah, it's does worry me. Add in Andy's tendency to share every thought he ever had with anyone who stands still long enough to hear him, and I worry about the day he says something that really offends someone. Not because I really care what that someone would think, but what would their reaction be, and how hurt would Andy be? You know Andy, Kelly, he's such a tender soul and so clueless at times -- I'm having a really hard time reconciling all this.
-=-=-=-=-
*** He answered "I'm smarter than that, Mom." ***
-=-=-=-=-
I think he's right.
*****
yeah, I know he's smarter than that -- and my Mom's programming in me says that a his Mom I have a right to expect/demand that he BE smarter than that. God, I hate it when she moves into my head!
- - - - - - - -
I'm 46 and think that Stewie and Brian are a HOOT.
****
Okay -- then help me understand my issue with this. I just knew, as I typed those words, that someone I really like here would turn out to be a fan of Family Guy. And it helps me to hear that, because you're not at all warped -- at least not in a bad way.<g>
I guess the show must have some redeeming value, but the issues that swirl around it still really worry me, that I'm making a mistake as his Mom.
******
But he's being more mature than you are a this point: he's trying to make *you* feel good about your position. He's going out of his way to let you know your feelings are validated and heard.
****
Oh, I already know I'm not always as mature as I could be. The question for me is how do I get that mature, when it goes against every prejudice I was raised with?
**** All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped will he already
be watching that stuff?***
-=-=-=-=-
Warped enough to hang out at my house. <bwg>
******
I'm feeling much better and much less 'high-stakes' worried about it, just knowing the Lovejoys watch Family Guy. I know it's old programming in my head and I want to get past it, but really I just want to snap my heels together and make it go away.... <g>
***I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I were dating
a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last date, because
eewww!****
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron will be hurt. <g>
****
Honestly -- if Gary had told me that, I'd have still gone out with him. I just would have mortified if anyone else knew he liked that show. <beg>
******
I'm not a big fam of Aqua Teen Hunger Force (Ben's taking Dunc to see that this weekend) or Robot Chicken or Something-Lab- Numbers (Can't remember the name--underwater thing---AquaLab2000 ??? I can't remember). So I don't watch them.
*****
Andy expressed an interest in seeing this movie. I didn't even know he watched that show and haven't watched it myself, but did make a note to check it out and let him know if we could see the movie.
*****
ALL of these (plus the Simpsons) have opened up sooooo many avenues for deep discussions. Vulgar, yes---but most of that goes over Dunc's head---unless we're laughing so hard that we have to explain. <G>
Sorry, Sylvia! Big fans here! Will you still come to the conference?
<bwg>
Seriously, watching these shows will not make them bad people. All four of us (five with the girlfriend) have pretty level heads---and none of us believe that dogs smoke, drink Martinis, or talk. <bwg>
****
Of course, we'll still come to the conference -- I love y'all. And finding out you like those shows makes me feel less worried about it all. But I have to ask how is y'all are so warped and I never knew it? <beg>
Sylvia -- still apparently taking myself way too seriously after all these years......
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
humor will lead to him thinking that kind of behavior is funny and okay in real life. ***
-=-=-=-=-
Do you REALLY???
****
Yeah I do. Even knowing I'm probably wrong. It's just a very visceral thing -- and frightening for me. I just said to Gary how Will is the finished project (who listens to Cannibal Corpse ::shudder:: and we didn't even let him watch the Simpsons! I really do wonder what damage I'm allowing to Andy.
I know on a rational level I'm probably very wrong, but on a personal, in-my-head level, yeah, it's does worry me. Add in Andy's tendency to share every thought he ever had with anyone who stands still long enough to hear him, and I worry about the day he says something that really offends someone. Not because I really care what that someone would think, but what would their reaction be, and how hurt would Andy be? You know Andy, Kelly, he's such a tender soul and so clueless at times -- I'm having a really hard time reconciling all this.
-=-=-=-=-
*** He answered "I'm smarter than that, Mom." ***
-=-=-=-=-
I think he's right.
*****
yeah, I know he's smarter than that -- and my Mom's programming in me says that a his Mom I have a right to expect/demand that he BE smarter than that. God, I hate it when she moves into my head!
- - - - - - - -
I'm 46 and think that Stewie and Brian are a HOOT.
****
Okay -- then help me understand my issue with this. I just knew, as I typed those words, that someone I really like here would turn out to be a fan of Family Guy. And it helps me to hear that, because you're not at all warped -- at least not in a bad way.<g>
I guess the show must have some redeeming value, but the issues that swirl around it still really worry me, that I'm making a mistake as his Mom.
******
But he's being more mature than you are a this point: he's trying to make *you* feel good about your position. He's going out of his way to let you know your feelings are validated and heard.
****
Oh, I already know I'm not always as mature as I could be. The question for me is how do I get that mature, when it goes against every prejudice I was raised with?
**** All I could think is -- by the time he's 13 or 15, how warped will he already
be watching that stuff?***
-=-=-=-=-
Warped enough to hang out at my house. <bwg>
******
I'm feeling much better and much less 'high-stakes' worried about it, just knowing the Lovejoys watch Family Guy. I know it's old programming in my head and I want to get past it, but really I just want to snap my heels together and make it go away.... <g>
***I really want to make some peace with this, but I have to say if I were dating
a guy and he told me he liked Family Guy -- that would be our last date, because
eewww!****
-=-=-=-=-
Cameron will be hurt. <g>
****
Honestly -- if Gary had told me that, I'd have still gone out with him. I just would have mortified if anyone else knew he liked that show. <beg>
******
I'm not a big fam of Aqua Teen Hunger Force (Ben's taking Dunc to see that this weekend) or Robot Chicken or Something-Lab- Numbers (Can't remember the name--underwater thing---AquaLab2000 ??? I can't remember). So I don't watch them.
*****
Andy expressed an interest in seeing this movie. I didn't even know he watched that show and haven't watched it myself, but did make a note to check it out and let him know if we could see the movie.
*****
ALL of these (plus the Simpsons) have opened up sooooo many avenues for deep discussions. Vulgar, yes---but most of that goes over Dunc's head---unless we're laughing so hard that we have to explain. <G>
Sorry, Sylvia! Big fans here! Will you still come to the conference?
<bwg>
Seriously, watching these shows will not make them bad people. All four of us (five with the girlfriend) have pretty level heads---and none of us believe that dogs smoke, drink Martinis, or talk. <bwg>
****
Of course, we'll still come to the conference -- I love y'all. And finding out you like those shows makes me feel less worried about it all. But I have to ask how is y'all are so warped and I never knew it? <beg>
Sylvia -- still apparently taking myself way too seriously after all these years......
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Absolutely nothing. Some people hate The Three Stooges' humor. Does that make them wrong too? What about David Letterman (I can't stand to be in the room when he's on)? Woody Allen? Jerry Seinfeld? Adam Sandler grates against every nerve I posess. But I *can* see that others do find them all funny.
*****
I'm with ya right there -- I hate the Stooges, can't watch Letterman, never found Woody funny, and yeah, Adam Sandler is beyond grating. And I can see why folks find them funny.
-=--=-=-
What kind of people am I raising?
-=-=-=-=-
I can't think of an uglier statement. :-(
You're raising fine young men. (well, the two I know. <g>) And they
will grow up to be fine men who think Futurama and Family Guy are
funny---and that's fine.
****
I don't really feel that way, but it's the question that runs thru my head -- the majorette of my fear parade as a Mom. I know they're find people -- even Will whom you don't know, who has been a Hendrix fan (something else I can't listen to) since he could speak (it must be genetic, since his bio-dad loves Jimi, too). I've been down this road before, but with controls last time, so this feels really scary at times -- especially this really, long, hard week.
****
Thinking and hoping that they will drop their funny bones because it doesn't jive with yours is horribly sad. Laughter is SOOO powerful---even if it's a bit ...*off*. They won't *become* Peter or Chris or Stewie---any more than you and I have become The Roadrunner
and Wile E. Coyote!
****
I know it's sad. and wrong. and unfair to them. and makes me feel like a bad mommy. That's why I'm really trying to trudge thru to the other side of this.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****
I'm with ya right there -- I hate the Stooges, can't watch Letterman, never found Woody funny, and yeah, Adam Sandler is beyond grating. And I can see why folks find them funny.
-=--=-=-
What kind of people am I raising?
-=-=-=-=-
I can't think of an uglier statement. :-(
You're raising fine young men. (well, the two I know. <g>) And they
will grow up to be fine men who think Futurama and Family Guy are
funny---and that's fine.
****
I don't really feel that way, but it's the question that runs thru my head -- the majorette of my fear parade as a Mom. I know they're find people -- even Will whom you don't know, who has been a Hendrix fan (something else I can't listen to) since he could speak (it must be genetic, since his bio-dad loves Jimi, too). I've been down this road before, but with controls last time, so this feels really scary at times -- especially this really, long, hard week.
****
Thinking and hoping that they will drop their funny bones because it doesn't jive with yours is horribly sad. Laughter is SOOO powerful---even if it's a bit ...*off*. They won't *become* Peter or Chris or Stewie---any more than you and I have become The Roadrunner
and Wile E. Coyote!
****
I know it's sad. and wrong. and unfair to them. and makes me feel like a bad mommy. That's why I'm really trying to trudge thru to the other side of this.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~It started out when Andy found Family Guy and Futurama. Gary was
really bothered by the shows, and complained mightily. I'm also
personally bothered by those shows and consider them inappropriate
for kids -- heck, honestly I consider them inappropriate for anyone.
They're crap, INMSHO -- mean-spirited, stupid and not funny, just
ugly. ~~
WOW! I have to say I'm shocked by all that judgement about some of the
BEST television writing available today.
Sure, some people won't find that kind of humor agreeable....but DANG,
can't you see the utter brilliance in those shows??? They touch on
every topic available, make fun of every political and social issue
and open the doors for GREAT conversations about history, politics,
religion, social issues, pop culture, geography, etc..... Total
brilliance!
I don't know how to help you get over your harsh judgement of your
children's choices, but I CAN tell you about my own children who watch
those shows almost every week. They are thoughtful, caring, FUNNY,
interesting and kind people who find those shows hilarious. Television
shows don't dictate what kind of person you are, or are becoming.
Don't give them that much credit.:)
I love watching those shows with them! What kind of person does that
make me? I wish I could record some of our post-Futurama, post-Family
Guy viewing conversations. It's amazing what connections lead to when
you truly support your children's choices.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
really bothered by the shows, and complained mightily. I'm also
personally bothered by those shows and consider them inappropriate
for kids -- heck, honestly I consider them inappropriate for anyone.
They're crap, INMSHO -- mean-spirited, stupid and not funny, just
ugly. ~~
WOW! I have to say I'm shocked by all that judgement about some of the
BEST television writing available today.
Sure, some people won't find that kind of humor agreeable....but DANG,
can't you see the utter brilliance in those shows??? They touch on
every topic available, make fun of every political and social issue
and open the doors for GREAT conversations about history, politics,
religion, social issues, pop culture, geography, etc..... Total
brilliance!
I don't know how to help you get over your harsh judgement of your
children's choices, but I CAN tell you about my own children who watch
those shows almost every week. They are thoughtful, caring, FUNNY,
interesting and kind people who find those shows hilarious. Television
shows don't dictate what kind of person you are, or are becoming.
Don't give them that much credit.:)
I love watching those shows with them! What kind of person does that
make me? I wish I could record some of our post-Futurama, post-Family
Guy viewing conversations. It's amazing what connections lead to when
you truly support your children's choices.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
Some episodes were even kind of 'dark'. I let DS know that my choice was to just go someplace else while he watched that because ... and I pointed out specific issues I had with it. Then I dropped it. When it came on, I'd quietly just 'drift' off to someplace else - read a magazine in the next room or whatever. Same thing I'd do if DH wanted to watch a somewhat scary movie. My choice to leave or not, their choice to watch or not.
****
This is where it gets hard for me. I can totally choose not to watch the show, and if I never have to hear about it, I can be okay with him choosing what he watches, even stuff I don't like.
It's that, after he watches it, he wants to share it with me. I want to hear what he thinks and know what he loves and be part of his world, but I'm having hard time that it's a piece I just can't like. I have told him it's okay to share with me, because I want to know where he's coming from, but when I hear it, I find I'm not able to be as objective as he deserves.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
This is where it gets hard for me. I can totally choose not to watch the show, and if I never have to hear about it, I can be okay with him choosing what he watches, even stuff I don't like.
It's that, after he watches it, he wants to share it with me. I want to hear what he thinks and know what he loves and be part of his world, but I'm having hard time that it's a piece I just can't like. I have told him it's okay to share with me, because I want to know where he's coming from, but when I hear it, I find I'm not able to be as objective as he deserves.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
physical comedy - but I was surprised to discover she hates the show
Lilo and Stitch. Before we had satellite she loved the movies and we
both thought she'd really enjoy the show, but she doesn't. There are
just too many scenes of other kids being nasty to Lilo. She loves
the gross bits with Stitch sticking his tongue up his nose (bleh, I
can't believe I just typed that) but the meanness in the show is too
much for her. In shows like Ed, Edd and Eddy everyone is equally
unpleasant in his own way and nastiness is always part of the humor,
and Mo's totally comfortable with that. Even though its the same
sort of schoolyard bully cruelty she objects to in Lilo.
I'm facinated by this. She's picked up on the different genres of
humor and understands them in a way I don't. I'm *just* as
uncomfortable with the nastiness in either show. As long as I can
stay focussed on the idea of different genres and different kind of
understanding I'm not concerned with Mo enjoying physical comedy.
There's not something "wrong" with her for liking it. It may not be
something she grows out of. It may be that she understands this
subject better than I do and will continue to do so.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
>> Also, I used to really *not* like that show Ed, Edd, and Eddy,but
> Liam really, really liked it. I kept my feelings *entirely* toMorgan enjoys Ed, Edd and Eddy - really she loves all kinds of
> myself as best I could and I'd watch it with him whenever I
> could. Sure 'nuff, he *detests* the show now! One of the things
> that I didn't like about the show was that the personality traits
> some of the characters had were awful!!
physical comedy - but I was surprised to discover she hates the show
Lilo and Stitch. Before we had satellite she loved the movies and we
both thought she'd really enjoy the show, but she doesn't. There are
just too many scenes of other kids being nasty to Lilo. She loves
the gross bits with Stitch sticking his tongue up his nose (bleh, I
can't believe I just typed that) but the meanness in the show is too
much for her. In shows like Ed, Edd and Eddy everyone is equally
unpleasant in his own way and nastiness is always part of the humor,
and Mo's totally comfortable with that. Even though its the same
sort of schoolyard bully cruelty she objects to in Lilo.
I'm facinated by this. She's picked up on the different genres of
humor and understands them in a way I don't. I'm *just* as
uncomfortable with the nastiness in either show. As long as I can
stay focussed on the idea of different genres and different kind of
understanding I'm not concerned with Mo enjoying physical comedy.
There's not something "wrong" with her for liking it. It may not be
something she grows out of. It may be that she understands this
subject better than I do and will continue to do so.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Ren Allen
~~I know it's my junk and I really would like to get to the point
where I don't feel so judgmental about it. ~~
Would it help to really learn about it? To understand the connections
and learning that can happen from those shows?
Futurama has so much sattire that is all about issues that face us today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama
And Family Guy brings in a ton of pop culture, with references to
musicals, tv shows, movies and much more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_guy
Read through those and then tell me there isn't some amazing learning
potential there. It's all about connections. Anything can lead to
everything in the whole universe......even shows you initially find
distasteful.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
where I don't feel so judgmental about it. ~~
Would it help to really learn about it? To understand the connections
and learning that can happen from those shows?
Futurama has so much sattire that is all about issues that face us today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurama
And Family Guy brings in a ton of pop culture, with references to
musicals, tv shows, movies and much more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_guy
Read through those and then tell me there isn't some amazing learning
potential there. It's all about connections. Anything can lead to
everything in the whole universe......even shows you initially find
distasteful.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~And that sums up my confusion about those shows -- how can one find
that funny and not be mysognisitc, racist and homophobic? ~~
Because it's ENTERTAINMENT, not reality. People are truly smart enough
to know the difference. And in the two shows you listed, they are
making fun of people that ARE racist or homophobic, not glorifying it.
I happen to find those shows brilliant and I'm none of the above. It's
hilarious to me. But I come from a mixed race family, believe strongly
in marriage rights for all, don't understand homophobes, and think
women are the superior gender (ok, just kidding on that one, we all
have our strengths, even men...wink, wink). Apparently I can laugh at
things regardless of my views....heck, I even find humor that makes
fun of my own beliefs funny. I guess if I find Steven Lynch humorous,
Family Guy and Futurama seem tame by comparison.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
that funny and not be mysognisitc, racist and homophobic? ~~
Because it's ENTERTAINMENT, not reality. People are truly smart enough
to know the difference. And in the two shows you listed, they are
making fun of people that ARE racist or homophobic, not glorifying it.
I happen to find those shows brilliant and I'm none of the above. It's
hilarious to me. But I come from a mixed race family, believe strongly
in marriage rights for all, don't understand homophobes, and think
women are the superior gender (ok, just kidding on that one, we all
have our strengths, even men...wink, wink). Apparently I can laugh at
things regardless of my views....heck, I even find humor that makes
fun of my own beliefs funny. I guess if I find Steven Lynch humorous,
Family Guy and Futurama seem tame by comparison.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
marji
At 10:11 4/18/2007, you wrote:
"how" really well. It can be funny *because* it's so out there, you
know? But, you know it's not *really* about that.
You said:
Sometimes you just gotta fake it 'til ya make it. Because you've
admitted here and to yourself that a lot of this stuff is your Mom's
old fear tapes running through your head, just identify it as that
when it's happening, and then release it. I mean, just because the
tapes are there, they don't have to run your life for you, right?
Until you can be who you want to be in this situation, try
*pretending* you can be that way. Try doing that for the peace and
well-being of Andy, who just has a different sense of humor than you
do. And, now you know that lots of amazingly wonderful people who
are intelligent, sensitive, cool, creative folks have that sense of
humor, too. Think of this *pretending* as a gift you can give to him. :-)
~Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And that sums up my confusion about those shows -- how can oneI think many other folks in their responses have already summed up
> find that funny and not be mysognisitc, racist and
> homophobic? Really an honest question -- how? It's what I keep
> coming back to, and I'm not sure how to get past that perception on my part.
"how" really well. It can be funny *because* it's so out there, you
know? But, you know it's not *really* about that.
You said:
>I worry watching that humor will lead to him thinking that kind ofC'mon! You *know* this just isn't true!!
>behavior is funny and okay in real life.
Sometimes you just gotta fake it 'til ya make it. Because you've
admitted here and to yourself that a lot of this stuff is your Mom's
old fear tapes running through your head, just identify it as that
when it's happening, and then release it. I mean, just because the
tapes are there, they don't have to run your life for you, right?
Until you can be who you want to be in this situation, try
*pretending* you can be that way. Try doing that for the peace and
well-being of Andy, who just has a different sense of humor than you
do. And, now you know that lots of amazingly wonderful people who
are intelligent, sensitive, cool, creative folks have that sense of
humor, too. Think of this *pretending* as a gift you can give to him. :-)
~Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Sylvia, I see you're really struggling with the kids wanting to watch tv
shows that you consider "crap." You're concerned that when they're 15 they'll
turn into little Beavis and Buttheads.
Honey, lighten up. It's just a cartoon.
I could argue the merits of the particular shows you mention, but it's not
going to matter to you. I don't know how old your kids are, but they find the
humor in those shows not because there's something wrong with them or because
you have failed them in some way, but because A. they're funny (Really,
lighten up. Try to pay attention and you'll see that they can be funny.) and B.
Because they're little boys and little boys (and little girls and big boys and
girls) find stupid stuff funny.
Sylvia, you've met my wife Beth. She is sweet, kind, smart, mature, etc. And
when a local radio DJ named Joanne Doody says her name Beth giggles
uncontrollably. Doesn't make her a bad person, just maybe a little strange.
Forty-two year old professional women aren't supposed to giggle when someone says
"doody."
Take solace in that they ALSO like the Boomerang stuff. Stop calling their
shows crap. It's mean. In a lot of ways it'd be better to just not let them
watch it than to say they have the choice and then to demean them about it.
Kathryn
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shows that you consider "crap." You're concerned that when they're 15 they'll
turn into little Beavis and Buttheads.
Honey, lighten up. It's just a cartoon.
I could argue the merits of the particular shows you mention, but it's not
going to matter to you. I don't know how old your kids are, but they find the
humor in those shows not because there's something wrong with them or because
you have failed them in some way, but because A. they're funny (Really,
lighten up. Try to pay attention and you'll see that they can be funny.) and B.
Because they're little boys and little boys (and little girls and big boys and
girls) find stupid stuff funny.
Sylvia, you've met my wife Beth. She is sweet, kind, smart, mature, etc. And
when a local radio DJ named Joanne Doody says her name Beth giggles
uncontrollably. Doesn't make her a bad person, just maybe a little strange.
Forty-two year old professional women aren't supposed to giggle when someone says
"doody."
Take solace in that they ALSO like the Boomerang stuff. Stop calling their
shows crap. It's mean. In a lot of ways it'd be better to just not let them
watch it than to say they have the choice and then to demean them about it.
Kathryn
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 11:07 4/18/2007, you wrote:
and Futurama are on, but I do get to hear some of the dialogue, and
I'm blown away by the discussions they lead to. And, Jimmy and Liam
are in there, laughing their heads off!! How beautiful that those
two get to do that together!!
Marji
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ music for the planet
<http://sonicbids.com/gaiawolf>Our Electronic Press Kit
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
<http://myspace.com/gaiawolf>Visit us on MySpace
"The animals of this world exist for their own reasons. They were
not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites or
women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Read through those and then tell me there isn't some amazing learningExcellent points!!! I'm usually working in the other room while FG
>potential there. It's all about connections. Anything can lead to
>everything in the whole universe......even shows you initially find
>distasteful.
and Futurama are on, but I do get to hear some of the dialogue, and
I'm blown away by the discussions they lead to. And, Jimmy and Liam
are in there, laughing their heads off!! How beautiful that those
two get to do that together!!
Marji
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ music for the planet
<http://sonicbids.com/gaiawolf>Our Electronic Press Kit
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
<http://myspace.com/gaiawolf>Visit us on MySpace
"The animals of this world exist for their own reasons. They were
not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites or
women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
wrote:
out. What fear do I have? I need to sit with that one for a while.
******************
Its a control thing. In a game, you have a lot more control over the
level of violence. With tv, all the decisions have already been made
by someone else.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
wrote:
>> hhmmm.... I don't really believe that violent video games lead toviolence, but for some reason the TV thing is harder for me to tease
out. What fear do I have? I need to sit with that one for a while.
******************
Its a control thing. In a game, you have a lot more control over the
level of violence. With tv, all the decisions have already been made
by someone else.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: sylgt04@...
*****
I've watched the shows several times -- I just can't sit thru it
anymore. I
know when I watched Andy was hoping I'd enoy it, but I just can't
pretend I like
it. He's just as fervently hoping his influence will affect me as I am
hoping
mine will influence him -- and I'm just not able to meet him halfway on
this
one. Not yet anyway.
*****
OK---SHSHSHSHSHHHHH---Don't tell Sylvia!
So the plan is: we'll kidnap Sylvia at the conference and strap her
down for a five day marathon of Family Guy! <G> We'll pump her full of
laughing gas while tickling her---and we can be laughing our butts off
too. <BWEG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: sylgt04@...
*****
I've watched the shows several times -- I just can't sit thru it
anymore. I
know when I watched Andy was hoping I'd enoy it, but I just can't
pretend I like
it. He's just as fervently hoping his influence will affect me as I am
hoping
mine will influence him -- and I'm just not able to meet him halfway on
this
one. Not yet anyway.
*****
OK---SHSHSHSHSHHHHH---Don't tell Sylvia!
So the plan is: we'll kidnap Sylvia at the conference and strap her
down for a five day marathon of Family Guy! <G> We'll pump her full of
laughing gas while tickling her---and we can be laughing our butts off
too. <BWEG>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From: sylgt04@...
It's that, after he watches it, he wants to share it with me. I want
to hear
what he thinks and know what he loves and be part of his world, but I'm
having
hard time that it's a piece I just can't like. I have told him it's
okay to
share with me, because I want to know where he's coming from, but when
I hear
it, I find I'm not able to be as objective as he deserves.
-=-=-=-=
He can call or Skype *me*. I'll listen and laugh along with him!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: sylgt04@...
It's that, after he watches it, he wants to share it with me. I want
to hear
what he thinks and know what he loves and be part of his world, but I'm
having
hard time that it's a piece I just can't like. I have told him it's
okay to
share with me, because I want to know where he's coming from, but when
I hear
it, I find I'm not able to be as objective as he deserves.
-=-=-=-=
He can call or Skype *me*. I'll listen and laugh along with him!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...
I guess if I find Steven Lynch humorous,
Family Guy and Futurama seem tame by comparison.:)
-=-=-=-
Yeah---I was wondering whether I had hooked Sylvia up with Stephen in
Albuquerque---obviously not. <g> I thought almost everyone else got a
listen on our i-pods! <G>
It's not about BEING mean and stupid or glorifying it. It's about NOT
being mean and stupid.
I don't think you can get much worse than Stephen Lynch, and I *really*
hope he isn't what he plays on stage (I guess he *could* be---I just
hope he's not!). I think he's brilliant.
If he really IS the guy he plays on stage---nobody tell me, please!
I'll just enjoy my ignorance and keep laughing.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: starsuncloud@...
I guess if I find Steven Lynch humorous,
Family Guy and Futurama seem tame by comparison.:)
-=-=-=-
Yeah---I was wondering whether I had hooked Sylvia up with Stephen in
Albuquerque---obviously not. <g> I thought almost everyone else got a
listen on our i-pods! <G>
It's not about BEING mean and stupid or glorifying it. It's about NOT
being mean and stupid.
I don't think you can get much worse than Stephen Lynch, and I *really*
hope he isn't what he plays on stage (I guess he *could* be---I just
hope he's not!). I think he's brilliant.
If he really IS the guy he plays on stage---nobody tell me, please!
I'll just enjoy my ignorance and keep laughing.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Sylvia Toyama
Read through those and then tell me there isn't some amazing learning
potential there. It's all about connections. Anything can lead to
everything in the whole universe.... ..even shows you initially find
distasteful.
****
I will go check out the links, Ren --- thanks.
I've watched enough of both shows to know there's amazing learning potential. I've explained the context of the jokes from both shows, and filled in the blanks for him, so I know learning is there.
It's just all so gross for me. <g>
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
potential there. It's all about connections. Anything can lead to
everything in the whole universe.... ..even shows you initially find
distasteful.
****
I will go check out the links, Ren --- thanks.
I've watched enough of both shows to know there's amazing learning potential. I've explained the context of the jokes from both shows, and filled in the blanks for him, so I know learning is there.
It's just all so gross for me. <g>
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erica Iwamura
Did I miss the age of your boys? I have 2 boys (ages 7 and my youngest
turned 5 yesterday <bwg>) They have watched Family Guy (once or twice - I
don't limit it, they just aren't that interested in it at this point) but
not Futurama and they LOVE the Simpsons. I have spent time in the past
worrying about letting them watch the Simpsons (they didn't know what it was
and I never introduced it to them.. they had the video game but didn't know
it was a tv show). One day I asked them if they wanted to watch the
Simpsons on tv and, of coure, that was met with a resoundng yes. They love
it and we do to and can't wait for the movie to come out! I think, for me,
the worry came from past experiences. My sisters watched the Simpsons and
they had some rough times as adults (drug use and alcoholism) so we think of
all the "bad" influences they had when in reality they were, honestly,
parented very poorly. Does that make sense?
I think what Ren said earlier is so key to this... Television shows don't
dictate what kind of person you are, or are becoming. Don't give them that
much credit
I like that quote so much I may have to use it as my signature line
sometime! (if thats okay with you, Ren)
Erica
--
"Play is the highest form of research." - Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
turned 5 yesterday <bwg>) They have watched Family Guy (once or twice - I
don't limit it, they just aren't that interested in it at this point) but
not Futurama and they LOVE the Simpsons. I have spent time in the past
worrying about letting them watch the Simpsons (they didn't know what it was
and I never introduced it to them.. they had the video game but didn't know
it was a tv show). One day I asked them if they wanted to watch the
Simpsons on tv and, of coure, that was met with a resoundng yes. They love
it and we do to and can't wait for the movie to come out! I think, for me,
the worry came from past experiences. My sisters watched the Simpsons and
they had some rough times as adults (drug use and alcoholism) so we think of
all the "bad" influences they had when in reality they were, honestly,
parented very poorly. Does that make sense?
I think what Ren said earlier is so key to this... Television shows don't
dictate what kind of person you are, or are becoming. Don't give them that
much credit
I like that quote so much I may have to use it as my signature line
sometime! (if thats okay with you, Ren)
Erica
--
"Play is the highest form of research." - Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Its a control thing. In a game, you have a lot more control over the
level of violence. With tv, all the decisions have already been made
by someone else.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
****
maybe it's about control -- only we all know I have no control issues at all. <weg>
I'm starting to think it's more about my sense of what's appropriate, and what others may think about me -- in spite of the fact that I like to think I don't care what others think.
Thinking on it more -- I have my own guilty pleasures in comedy. I love Christopher Titus, tho I cringe whenever I watch his routine. I find Earl screamingly funny -- Andy does, too -- even tho it's very politically incorrect in so many ways.
And, somehow, the whole issue of animation enters into it all, especially for Gary who's something of a animation snob.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
level of violence. With tv, all the decisions have already been made
by someone else.
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
****
maybe it's about control -- only we all know I have no control issues at all. <weg>
I'm starting to think it's more about my sense of what's appropriate, and what others may think about me -- in spite of the fact that I like to think I don't care what others think.
Thinking on it more -- I have my own guilty pleasures in comedy. I love Christopher Titus, tho I cringe whenever I watch his routine. I find Earl screamingly funny -- Andy does, too -- even tho it's very politically incorrect in so many ways.
And, somehow, the whole issue of animation enters into it all, especially for Gary who's something of a animation snob.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Did I miss the age of your boys? I have 2 boys (ages 7 and my youngest
turned 5 yesterday <bwg>)
****
Andy is 10, and Dan is 6.
Happy Birthday to your youngest. I was at your blog yesterday and saw the pictures.
Also have to say I called Gary over and said, "look -- another Asian family of unschoolers!"
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
turned 5 yesterday <bwg>)
****
Andy is 10, and Dan is 6.
Happy Birthday to your youngest. I was at your blog yesterday and saw the pictures.
Also have to say I called Gary over and said, "look -- another Asian family of unschoolers!"
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erica Iwamura
"look -- another Asian family of unschoolers!"
well, 3/4 of us are, LOL... (I'm the odd one out!) and DH isn't "totally"
on board my unschooling train yet but we'll get there!
Erica
well, 3/4 of us are, LOL... (I'm the odd one out!) and DH isn't "totally"
on board my unschooling train yet but we'll get there!
Erica
On 4/18/07, Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
>
> Did I miss the age of your boys? I have 2 boys (ages 7 and my youngest
> turned 5 yesterday <bwg>)
>
> ****
> Andy is 10, and Dan is 6.
>
> Happy Birthday to your youngest. I was at your blog yesterday and saw the
> pictures.
>
> Also have to say I called Gary over and said, "look -- another Asian
> family of unschoolers!"
>
> Sylvia
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
"Play is the highest form of research." - Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]