bequiet65

My name is Kelly. I'm a 41yo disabled mom with two children at home
(ages 11 & 15). I'm also going to be a grandmother in Oct this year,
thanks to my oldest chid (age 21) - I'm so excited!

Daniel, 15, is in his 3rd year hsing. Rachel, 11, is in her 1st.
Both were removed from public schools for social reasons: my son, for
safety reasons, and my daughter because she was turning into someone
the likes of which my family has never seen (think cruel, Queen of
the World).

Despite being somewhat dissatisfied with it, I did a mostly
traditional form of hsing until February this year. I'd read and
dismissed unschooling more times than I can count, and then one day
it clicked - that's what my kids needed, that's what I needed. I
figured deschooling was the first order of business.

What is the difference between deschooling and unschooling? I've
been pretty much standing back just watching to see where each of
them are in learning to learn. Rachel, 11, is always going to
obviously be learning because she's so darned curious and
demonstrative about what's going on inside her head. Daniel is not
as open with what is going on inside him, but I can see him gaining
more confidence as he helps his dad build our new deck.

I become involved when they want me too: Daniel orally relives
everything he encounters, he likes to access wrestling stuff on the
Internet and at the library; Rachel asks to use Print Shop 22 to
create things all the time, and wants to know how to spell certain
words. Those are just examples, not the whole story, you understand.

So I'm not directing their learning, but I am available and willing
for whatever they want from me to assist their learning. So how is
that different from unschooling? Or if that's unschooling, how is it
different from deschooling? I'm beginning to think there really is
no substantial difference.

How do you see it?

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "bequiet65"
<bequiet65@...> wrote:
>> What is the difference between deschooling and unschooling?

Deschooling is a transitional process. Its a time of healing and
decompressing and letting go of "school" so that unschooling can
happen. Its not so much separate from unschooling as a first stage.
Parents need to deschool as much as kids, and sometimes take longer -
after all, we've had more time to get "set in our ways".

I've
> been pretty much standing back just watching to see where each of
> them are in learning to learn. Rachel, 11, is always going to
> obviously be learning because she's so darned curious and
> demonstrative about what's going on inside her head. Daniel is
not
> as open with what is going on inside him, but I can see him
gaining
> more confidence as he helps his dad build our new deck.

Here's a couple different links about the theory of Multiple
Intelligences:

http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/mi/dickinson_mi.html
http://sandradodd.com/intelligences/

That may help you see and understand the ways Daniel learns a bit
better. Focussing on learning about your kids and how they learn is
GREAT!

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

[email protected]

I wrote this several years ago. It's on Sandra's site, I think. The
first stage is my explanation of deschooling.


The Three Stages of Unschooling

Kelly Lovejoy, 2004

My son Cameron (16) and I recently started sitting in on a college
Sociology class. He asked for and received electric guitar lessons for
his birthday. Mondays he goes to a nearby school and takes African
drumming lessons. He's taking a weekly film class starting in March,
and we'll be sending him to a weeklong film school in Maine in May.
Duncan (almost 8) just started karate lessons. Ben (my husband) has
just finished a class (with tests and all) that's required before he
can put on Lt Col (Air National Guard) and is now in NJ for three weeks
of "rah-rah" and classroom training and tests for the two new drugs he
will be selling. I'm going to a one-day intensive "Bee School" to learn
to take care of my Christmas present: two beehives.

Cameron said the other day, "For Unschoolers, we sure are taking a lot
of schooly classes!"

That got me thinking...especially since we are one of those families
that discovered unschooling after years and years of schooling.

I think that there are three "Stages of Unschooling."

Stage I

The first stage is the longest and most difficult and involves getting
rid of all school-think, which includes classes and "instruction" and
school-speak. We have to rid ourselves of the reliance on schools and
teachers and testing and book-worship. We need to look deeply into the
difference between 'teach' and 'learn'. We ban classes and structure
and nagging. It's accepting that grades and requirements and diplomas
and curricula and extrinsic motivations truly have no meaning in an
unschooling life. It's realizing that the whole world is related and
inter-related: it's about NOT dividing the world into subjects: math is
science is art is history is literature is FUN! It's a time for
reflection on how we've learned the things that really matter in our
adult lives. It's hard to let go of all that school-think, to go beyond
what we've been *taught* was important and to value ALL learning as
important.

It's realizing that we learn what WE believe is important WHEN we are
ready. And it's realizing that what's important often changes. It's
about abolishing coercion in learning and about the freedom to change
passions. It's understanding that learning doesn't stop.

Face it, almost all of you reading this in 2004 went to school---at
least for 12 years, maybe as many as 22 or 25 years! School is so
ingrained in us, that it's hard to think any other way. We appreciate
"straight A students" and "AP" classes and college prep high schools
and term papers and "higher math" and high SAT/ACT scores. "Good"
students are given preferential treatment by everyone: pizzas for
reading and Chuck E. Cheese tokens for good report cards. Even our
child's car insurance is lowered if we have an "A student!"

Stage one is about ridding our minds of those things, about really
thinking about learning in a holistic manner. It's about examining how
we learned what truly interests us---especially those things that
didn't require a "teacher." What are your passions? HOW did you learn
to do those things? In a classroom?

Two of my passions as a child were dogs and horses. Dogs and horses are
NOT taught in any grade, middle, or high school *I* know of. But I
wanted to learn everything I could about them. My parents gave me dogs
and horses. They bought me books and paid for me to take riding lessons
and dog obedience classes. They paid for dog and horse shows and
equipment. My passion threw me into reading every book I could find
(there were no videos back then—or "Animal Planet!"). By twelve I could
identify every breed of dog and horse that I had ever seen or read
about and tell you how it was developed, where, why, and by whom. I
spent every weekend and every afternoon at a dog show/horse
show/event/trial or just hanging around the stable or kennel. I asked
thousands of questions and "got my hands dirty." Many of my friends
were adults with the same passions. Training, breeding, grooming,
showing, husbandry—all of these things I learned because I was consumed
by them!

But, of course, dogs and horses are NOT school subjects—and are
completely unimportant in the school world. What if I had waited for a
teacher to come along and say, "Today we are learning all about dog and
horses"? Not only would I have waited all my life, the teacher would
only have given me a "taste" of the subject!

OH! And you *can't* make a living with dogs and horses—right?

Stage one is often referred to as DEschooling. It's the period of time
we need to give ourselves in order to "step away from the box" of
school and school-think. Ask yourself why and how you learned your
passion: whether it was music, cooking, flying, gardening, or
long-distance running. Or even more "academic-like" passions, like
Shakespeare, chemistry, World War II, or a foreign language. When you
are comfortable with how learning happens by indulging in passions and
making connections in your learning, you are quickly heading towards
stage two.


Stage II

Once you are comfortable with the idea of immersion learning—and you're
over wanting or needing classes and structure, you're finally over the
deschooling hump and are actively in the process of UNschooling.

Stage two involves really immersing ourselves—and allowing our children
to immerse themselves—into passions and even into slight, fleeting
interests. Seeing connections and making connections and yet realizing
that some things *might* not connect for YEARS is the most important
part of stage two.

Connection: I remember lying in my bed when I was about 11 or 12. My
bed was behind the door, so that, when open, the door obscured the head
of my bed. I had tied a string to my doorknob. I would try to shut my
door with my finger at the point of the doorjamb; then I would open the
door back up with a pull on the string. It took *a lot* of pressure
(and pain!) to close my door at the point of the jamb. But every inch
closer to the door knob I got, it would be easier and easier to close,
so that by the time I was right at the edge of the door (by the knob),
I could almost "blow" it shut. I had "discovered" torque—but it had no
name!

School's idea that children should be given the definition of torque
and then have it explained is backwards. It was so simple for me to
understand the definition of torque because I already had made the
personal and meaningful connection with my bedroom door.

Passion: There are people who invest their time (and many even make a
living) studying Elizabethan fashion or reading/writing about the works
of John Steinbeck or determining whether an 17th century chair is a
forgery or watching birds make nests/feed their young or , as I heard
on the radio yesterday: there's this guy who's getting his Masters
degree in Soil Science! Go figure!

If allowed (and often, even if not allowed!), a child will pursue his
career by following his passion(s). A wise parent will encourage this
pursuit of passion, because it may be what the child decides to devote
his life's work to. Maybe *more* importantly, that wise parent will
step aside when a passion becomes "old" because the parent will know
that *some* connection has been made with this fleeting passion.

From 10-12 years old, Cameron was a magician. I actually thought that
he would become the next Lance Burton or Jeff McBride (who once
referred to Cameron as "mini-me"). He was so passionate about magic, he
would practice and perform ALL day! Insert here: "If I let him, Cameron
would sit around and do magic ALL DAY!" Well, he DID! Until the day
when he quit. I was stunned! He'd lost all interest. We'd put thousands
of dollars into costumes and tricks and gimmicks and conventions and
tapes and books and private sessions with famous magicians—and he just
up and quit.

At first I was incredulous. Then I realized it was just an intense,
fleeting passion. We still have a huge box of magic upstairs in the
attic. He can come back to it whenever—or not. What's important is that
it inspired him and fed a passion and entertained him (and us and
hundreds more). He met some truly fascinating people and made
connections that will last a lifetime—because he had an interest, a
passion.

Stage one, deschooling, is a very uncomfortable time! It's a period of
intense questioning and of challenging yourself to think differently.
This is difficult, but it can be done—as with all learning: when you're
ready to!

Stage two may be even more uncomfortable, because you're actually
putting the ideas into action: you're allowing the passions to take
over and you're not pushing the three "R's". You are beginning to trust
that the child will learn, and you're respecting his choices. You're
UNschooling! And the more you do it, the easier it gets!




Stage three is freedom and joy and trust and respect and desire:
Radical Unschooling


Stage III

The third and final stage is when we can honestly and sincerely look at
ALL learning as equal and not hold one "method" or style or subject or
means of obtaining information above another. By stage three, we live
and breathe unschooling---it's such a part of our day-to-day living
that we can't separate it from our lives: it's not just the
"educational" part because *everything* is educational. We can apply
unschooling principles to bedtimes and eating and video gaming and TV
and "chores." We know that our children will learn because it's what
they were born to do; they're hard-wired to learn. Learning is how the
human species survives and progresses and succeeds.

This is the stage when we can effectively and confidently start giving
out unschooling information to the uninformed or misinformed because we
"get it." We can live our lives joyfully because we're not worried
whether Susie will pass her algebra or whether Johnny will be able to
get into a good college, because they WILL if they want to. We know
that they will pursue their passions...well, passionately! And that
each day will bring more connections and learning opportunities.

This is the stage when classes and instruction may eke back into our
lives, as it recently has in our family's. We don't give more weight to
the learning that is happening in Sociology-101 or karate or
bee-keeping just because it's happening in a classroom situation. A
class is just another means of pursuing our passions, making the
connections, and receiving the information. Learning happens all the
time in all places—*even* in a classroom!

I don't want to give the impression that acceptance of class/book
learning automatically makes you a Radical Unschooler. Stage III cannot
"just happen": you'll have to go through Stages I and II first. For
those of us that attended school, deschooling will always exist at a
lower level throughout our lives. The next generation (our unschooled
children) will not have this stage to work through: they'll be able to
see all learning as equal and good from the get-go.

It's a process: getting rid of the school-think and structure, becoming
comfortable and implementing immersion learning, and *then* accepting
ALL learning as equally valuable.


~Kelly
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0

chandelle'

do you have a web address for this article? it is excellent!

On 4/16/07, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> I wrote this several years ago. It's on Sandra's site, I think. The
> first stage is my explanation of deschooling.
>
>
> The Three Stages of Unschooling
>
> Kelly Lovejoy, 2004
>
> My son Cameron (16) and I recently started sitting in on a college
> Sociology class. He asked for and received electric guitar lessons for
> his birthday. Mondays he goes to a nearby school and takes African
> drumming lessons. He's taking a weekly film class starting in March,
> and we'll be sending him to a weeklong film school in Maine in May.
> Duncan (almost 8) just started karate lessons. Ben (my husband) has
> just finished a class (with tests and all) that's required before he
> can put on Lt Col (Air National Guard) and is now in NJ for three weeks
> of "rah-rah" and classroom training and tests for the two new drugs he
> will be selling. I'm going to a one-day intensive "Bee School" to learn
> to take care of my Christmas present: two beehives.
>
> Cameron said the other day, "For Unschoolers, we sure are taking a lot
> of schooly classes!"
>
> That got me thinking...especially since we are one of those families
> that discovered unschooling after years and years of schooling.
>
> I think that there are three "Stages of Unschooling."
>
> Stage I
>
> The first stage is the longest and most difficult and involves getting
> rid of all school-think, which includes classes and "instruction" and
> school-speak. We have to rid ourselves of the reliance on schools and
> teachers and testing and book-worship. We need to look deeply into the
> difference between 'teach' and 'learn'. We ban classes and structure
> and nagging. It's accepting that grades and requirements and diplomas
> and curricula and extrinsic motivations truly have no meaning in an
> unschooling life. It's realizing that the whole world is related and
> inter-related: it's about NOT dividing the world into subjects: math is
> science is art is history is literature is FUN! It's a time for
> reflection on how we've learned the things that really matter in our
> adult lives. It's hard to let go of all that school-think, to go beyond
> what we've been *taught* was important and to value ALL learning as
> important.
>
> It's realizing that we learn what WE believe is important WHEN we are
> ready. And it's realizing that what's important often changes. It's
> about abolishing coercion in learning and about the freedom to change
> passions. It's understanding that learning doesn't stop.
>
> Face it, almost all of you reading this in 2004 went to school---at
> least for 12 years, maybe as many as 22 or 25 years! School is so
> ingrained in us, that it's hard to think any other way. We appreciate
> "straight A students" and "AP" classes and college prep high schools
> and term papers and "higher math" and high SAT/ACT scores. "Good"
> students are given preferential treatment by everyone: pizzas for
> reading and Chuck E. Cheese tokens for good report cards. Even our
> child's car insurance is lowered if we have an "A student!"
>
> Stage one is about ridding our minds of those things, about really
> thinking about learning in a holistic manner. It's about examining how
> we learned what truly interests us---especially those things that
> didn't require a "teacher." What are your passions? HOW did you learn
> to do those things? In a classroom?
>
> Two of my passions as a child were dogs and horses. Dogs and horses are
> NOT taught in any grade, middle, or high school *I* know of. But I
> wanted to learn everything I could about them. My parents gave me dogs
> and horses. They bought me books and paid for me to take riding lessons
> and dog obedience classes. They paid for dog and horse shows and
> equipment. My passion threw me into reading every book I could find
> (there were no videos back then�or "Animal Planet!"). By twelve I could
> identify every breed of dog and horse that I had ever seen or read
> about and tell you how it was developed, where, why, and by whom. I
> spent every weekend and every afternoon at a dog show/horse
> show/event/trial or just hanging around the stable or kennel. I asked
> thousands of questions and "got my hands dirty." Many of my friends
> were adults with the same passions. Training, breeding, grooming,
> showing, husbandry�all of these things I learned because I was consumed
> by them!
>
> But, of course, dogs and horses are NOT school subjects�and are
> completely unimportant in the school world. What if I had waited for a
> teacher to come along and say, "Today we are learning all about dog and
> horses"? Not only would I have waited all my life, the teacher would
> only have given me a "taste" of the subject!
>
> OH! And you *can't* make a living with dogs and horses�right?
>
> Stage one is often referred to as DEschooling. It's the period of time
> we need to give ourselves in order to "step away from the box" of
> school and school-think. Ask yourself why and how you learned your
> passion: whether it was music, cooking, flying, gardening, or
> long-distance running. Or even more "academic-like" passions, like
> Shakespeare, chemistry, World War II, or a foreign language. When you
> are comfortable with how learning happens by indulging in passions and
> making connections in your learning, you are quickly heading towards
> stage two.
>
>
> Stage II
>
> Once you are comfortable with the idea of immersion learning�and you're
> over wanting or needing classes and structure, you're finally over the
> deschooling hump and are actively in the process of UNschooling.
>
> Stage two involves really immersing ourselves�and allowing our children
> to immerse themselves�into passions and even into slight, fleeting
> interests. Seeing connections and making connections and yet realizing
> that some things *might* not connect for YEARS is the most important
> part of stage two.
>
> Connection: I remember lying in my bed when I was about 11 or 12. My
> bed was behind the door, so that, when open, the door obscured the head
> of my bed. I had tied a string to my doorknob. I would try to shut my
> door with my finger at the point of the doorjamb; then I would open the
> door back up with a pull on the string. It took *a lot* of pressure
> (and pain!) to close my door at the point of the jamb. But every inch
> closer to the door knob I got, it would be easier and easier to close,
> so that by the time I was right at the edge of the door (by the knob),
> I could almost "blow" it shut. I had "discovered" torque�but it had no
> name!
>
> School's idea that children should be given the definition of torque
> and then have it explained is backwards. It was so simple for me to
> understand the definition of torque because I already had made the
> personal and meaningful connection with my bedroom door.
>
> Passion: There are people who invest their time (and many even make a
> living) studying Elizabethan fashion or reading/writing about the works
> of John Steinbeck or determining whether an 17th century chair is a
> forgery or watching birds make nests/feed their young or , as I heard
> on the radio yesterday: there's this guy who's getting his Masters
> degree in Soil Science! Go figure!
>
> If allowed (and often, even if not allowed!), a child will pursue his
> career by following his passion(s). A wise parent will encourage this
> pursuit of passion, because it may be what the child decides to devote
> his life's work to. Maybe *more* importantly, that wise parent will
> step aside when a passion becomes "old" because the parent will know
> that *some* connection has been made with this fleeting passion.
>
> From 10-12 years old, Cameron was a magician. I actually thought that
> he would become the next Lance Burton or Jeff McBride (who once
> referred to Cameron as "mini-me"). He was so passionate about magic, he
> would practice and perform ALL day! Insert here: "If I let him, Cameron
> would sit around and do magic ALL DAY!" Well, he DID! Until the day
> when he quit. I was stunned! He'd lost all interest. We'd put thousands
> of dollars into costumes and tricks and gimmicks and conventions and
> tapes and books and private sessions with famous magicians�and he just
> up and quit.
>
> At first I was incredulous. Then I realized it was just an intense,
> fleeting passion. We still have a huge box of magic upstairs in the
> attic. He can come back to it whenever�or not. What's important is that
> it inspired him and fed a passion and entertained him (and us and
> hundreds more). He met some truly fascinating people and made
> connections that will last a lifetime�because he had an interest, a
> passion.
>
> Stage one, deschooling, is a very uncomfortable time! It's a period of
> intense questioning and of challenging yourself to think differently.
> This is difficult, but it can be done�as with all learning: when you're
> ready to!
>
> Stage two may be even more uncomfortable, because you're actually
> putting the ideas into action: you're allowing the passions to take
> over and you're not pushing the three "R's". You are beginning to trust
> that the child will learn, and you're respecting his choices. You're
> UNschooling! And the more you do it, the easier it gets!
>
>
>
>
> Stage three is freedom and joy and trust and respect and desire:
> Radical Unschooling
>
>
> Stage III
>
> The third and final stage is when we can honestly and sincerely look at
> ALL learning as equal and not hold one "method" or style or subject or
> means of obtaining information above another. By stage three, we live
> and breathe unschooling---it's such a part of our day-to-day living
> that we can't separate it from our lives: it's not just the
> "educational" part because *everything* is educational. We can apply
> unschooling principles to bedtimes and eating and video gaming and TV
> and "chores." We know that our children will learn because it's what
> they were born to do; they're hard-wired to learn. Learning is how the
> human species survives and progresses and succeeds.
>
> This is the stage when we can effectively and confidently start giving
> out unschooling information to the uninformed or misinformed because we
> "get it." We can live our lives joyfully because we're not worried
> whether Susie will pass her algebra or whether Johnny will be able to
> get into a good college, because they WILL if they want to. We know
> that they will pursue their passions...well, passionately! And that
> each day will bring more connections and learning opportunities.
>
> This is the stage when classes and instruction may eke back into our
> lives, as it recently has in our family's. We don't give more weight to
> the learning that is happening in Sociology-101 or karate or
> bee-keeping just because it's happening in a classroom situation. A
> class is just another means of pursuing our passions, making the
> connections, and receiving the information. Learning happens all the
> time in all places�*even* in a classroom!
>
> I don't want to give the impression that acceptance of class/book
> learning automatically makes you a Radical Unschooler. Stage III cannot
> "just happen": you'll have to go through Stages I and II first. For
> those of us that attended school, deschooling will always exist at a
> lower level throughout our lives. The next generation (our unschooled
> children) will not have this stage to work through: they'll be able to
> see all learning as equal and good from the get-go.
>
> It's a process: getting rid of the school-think and structure, becoming
> comfortable and implementing immersion learning, and *then* accepting
> ALL learning as equally valuable.
>
>
> ~Kelly
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> =0
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
"Play is the highest form of research."
-Albert Einstein


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jlh44music

kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> Two of my passions as a child were dogs and horses. Dogs and horses
are NOT taught in any grade, middle, or high school *I* know of. But
I wanted to learn everything I could about them........But, of
course, dogs and horses are NOT school subjects and are completely
unimportant in the school world. What if I had waited for a teacher
to come along and say, "Today we are learning all about dog and
horses"? Not only would I have waited all my life, the teacher would
only have given me a "taste" of the subject!>
> OH! And you *can't* make a living with dogs and horses right?>

There ARE agricultural high schools where these subjects are
studied! My dd has decided she wants to work with animals, and she
wants to go to high school next year, and she wants to be around more
kids (she's virtually isolated, and believe me we've tried to make
connections, other than occassional moments there's nothing on a
regular basis), so she has applied to the local agricultural high
school where they can study animals (yes, horses and dogs, among many
others, hands on), plants (flower arranging, landscaping etc), or
environmental studies. We're waiting to hear if she was accepted.
No, it's not radical unschooling, but it IS honoring her choices.
Jann