Dealing with a difference of opinion...
sfenom11
Hi
We're new to unschooling and I'm still trying to convince my dh that RU
is the way to go. It's so different from conventional parenting that
I'm finding it hard to explain and harder to convince him that this is
the best way to deal with ds. Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy. Tonight
my dh told my ds to wash his hair while he was having his bath. Ds
didn't do it and dh got mad and a power struggle was created with dh
feeling not listened to, ds feeling angry and me stuck in the middle.
When I ask why ds doesn't wash his hair, he says that the soap gets in
his eyes, the hair just gets dirty again anyway... We've tried in the
past things to keep the soap out of his eyes, but I think he's just not
interested. I would like to keep this a non-issue and let my son decide
on his own, but my dh doesn't agree.
How would you deal with this situation?
Thanks,
Arlene
We're new to unschooling and I'm still trying to convince my dh that RU
is the way to go. It's so different from conventional parenting that
I'm finding it hard to explain and harder to convince him that this is
the best way to deal with ds. Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy. Tonight
my dh told my ds to wash his hair while he was having his bath. Ds
didn't do it and dh got mad and a power struggle was created with dh
feeling not listened to, ds feeling angry and me stuck in the middle.
When I ask why ds doesn't wash his hair, he says that the soap gets in
his eyes, the hair just gets dirty again anyway... We've tried in the
past things to keep the soap out of his eyes, but I think he's just not
interested. I would like to keep this a non-issue and let my son decide
on his own, but my dh doesn't agree.
How would you deal with this situation?
Thanks,
Arlene
Deb
One thing I noted is that you asked DS about it - why he didn't want
to wash his hair etc. - but you didn't ask DH about why he feels it
is so important. This is a biggie that I have to always remind
myself about: treat my spouse as respectfully as I treat my child.
Sometimes we get into the habit of "assuming" that since partner is
an adult, we don't have to discuss things the same way as we do with
the kid(s). That has ended up with my DH feeling unlistened to, less
respected, feelings hurt, etc. So, take a quiet time, perhaps away
from your DS, and ask your DH why hair length, hair washing, etc is
really important to him, what in particular (the washing, the
length, other?) is the bigger problem in his eyes. It might simply
be that he wants an acknowledgement of his opinion and that's it
(since you note he felt unheard). Maybe he's got it indoctrinated
into his head since childhood that "only hippy drop out druggies
have long greasy hair". So, it's not so much -your individual child-
that is at issue as it is the idea of long greasy hair = "loser" or
bad parenting or something. Once your DH is feeling heard and you
are talking calmly, maybe bring in DS for a brainstorming session.
DS wants X, DH would prefer Y, what kind of middle ground can you
find? For instance, maybe a dry wash thing (spritz it in, comb or
brush and done) would be minimally invasive for DS and remove enough
of the greasiness for DH. Or, perhaps, DH wouldn't mind the not
washing as much if the hair was a little shorter, if that's okay to
DS. And so on - remember, brainstorming is throw out all possible
ideas, eliminate/censor none of them to start with. So ideas like
shave his head, grow dreadlocks, wear a helmet, go to a professional
hair washer once a week, etc are all valid in brainstorming. I know
my DS (he's almost 9) doesn't like washing his hair much. However,
he does sometimes get an itchy scalp so, with his permission, I'll
run a damp washcloth over his scalp while he bathes. After all, the
scalp is the major thing - hair doesn't produce oil, the oil glands
in the scalp do. You might find that your DS would prefer to go to a
hair salon place and have someone else do it for him (just because
he's 11 doesn't mean he *has to* do it for himself even though he
can). I know that for a while around that age, I preferred to have
my mom wash my long hair at the sink with the sink sprayer rather
than having bath water poured repeatedly over my head. All 3 of us
(DH, me, DS) pretty much just let our hair grow 11 months of the
year, then get a shorter cut for the summer around May/June and let
it grow again (though, since we're travelling to the Caribbean in
the fall this year, we'll probably do another short cut late in the
summer, it'll still be pretty hot down there). DH gets particularly
shaggy - hair below collar length and beard down to midchest -
before he trims and clips for the summer. And, since he is the at
home parent, he does sometimes go several days without showering or
washing his hair (and he's an adult). I still remember when I was a
kid and we had a "bath night" once a week - none of this every
single day showering and hair washing. That lasted until puberty
pretty much, at which point we *wanted* to shower and feel and smell
clean. Also, your DS might be at cross purposes with himself -
longer hair is more likely to look and feel dirty and when washed
get soap closer around the face. I know that my DS is often more
comfortable with shorter hair (clippers set at 3 on the side and 5
on top for a mild buzz cut) that can just be washcloth washed
quickly. Keep in mind, too, that your DS' opinion on the subject may
change as the weather gets warmer and warmer - he may choose to trim
his hair a little at least and I know from experience (I've had hair
ranging from shorter than collar to down to my belt) that clean,
brushed (at least a little) hair is way easier to pull back into a
tail when it's hot out than tangled, greasy hair.
--Deb
to wash his hair etc. - but you didn't ask DH about why he feels it
is so important. This is a biggie that I have to always remind
myself about: treat my spouse as respectfully as I treat my child.
Sometimes we get into the habit of "assuming" that since partner is
an adult, we don't have to discuss things the same way as we do with
the kid(s). That has ended up with my DH feeling unlistened to, less
respected, feelings hurt, etc. So, take a quiet time, perhaps away
from your DS, and ask your DH why hair length, hair washing, etc is
really important to him, what in particular (the washing, the
length, other?) is the bigger problem in his eyes. It might simply
be that he wants an acknowledgement of his opinion and that's it
(since you note he felt unheard). Maybe he's got it indoctrinated
into his head since childhood that "only hippy drop out druggies
have long greasy hair". So, it's not so much -your individual child-
that is at issue as it is the idea of long greasy hair = "loser" or
bad parenting or something. Once your DH is feeling heard and you
are talking calmly, maybe bring in DS for a brainstorming session.
DS wants X, DH would prefer Y, what kind of middle ground can you
find? For instance, maybe a dry wash thing (spritz it in, comb or
brush and done) would be minimally invasive for DS and remove enough
of the greasiness for DH. Or, perhaps, DH wouldn't mind the not
washing as much if the hair was a little shorter, if that's okay to
DS. And so on - remember, brainstorming is throw out all possible
ideas, eliminate/censor none of them to start with. So ideas like
shave his head, grow dreadlocks, wear a helmet, go to a professional
hair washer once a week, etc are all valid in brainstorming. I know
my DS (he's almost 9) doesn't like washing his hair much. However,
he does sometimes get an itchy scalp so, with his permission, I'll
run a damp washcloth over his scalp while he bathes. After all, the
scalp is the major thing - hair doesn't produce oil, the oil glands
in the scalp do. You might find that your DS would prefer to go to a
hair salon place and have someone else do it for him (just because
he's 11 doesn't mean he *has to* do it for himself even though he
can). I know that for a while around that age, I preferred to have
my mom wash my long hair at the sink with the sink sprayer rather
than having bath water poured repeatedly over my head. All 3 of us
(DH, me, DS) pretty much just let our hair grow 11 months of the
year, then get a shorter cut for the summer around May/June and let
it grow again (though, since we're travelling to the Caribbean in
the fall this year, we'll probably do another short cut late in the
summer, it'll still be pretty hot down there). DH gets particularly
shaggy - hair below collar length and beard down to midchest -
before he trims and clips for the summer. And, since he is the at
home parent, he does sometimes go several days without showering or
washing his hair (and he's an adult). I still remember when I was a
kid and we had a "bath night" once a week - none of this every
single day showering and hair washing. That lasted until puberty
pretty much, at which point we *wanted* to shower and feel and smell
clean. Also, your DS might be at cross purposes with himself -
longer hair is more likely to look and feel dirty and when washed
get soap closer around the face. I know that my DS is often more
comfortable with shorter hair (clippers set at 3 on the side and 5
on top for a mild buzz cut) that can just be washcloth washed
quickly. Keep in mind, too, that your DS' opinion on the subject may
change as the weather gets warmer and warmer - he may choose to trim
his hair a little at least and I know from experience (I've had hair
ranging from shorter than collar to down to my belt) that clean,
brushed (at least a little) hair is way easier to pull back into a
tail when it's hot out than tangled, greasy hair.
--Deb
Priscilla
Hi,
We went 99% RU about a year ago (still working on a few points,
especially with DH). DD, then 13, didn't want to bathe or wash hair.
I put deodorant wipes and deodorant in the car which she was
agreeable to use. She had been washing her hair before, but not
combing it out, putting it in a ponytail. When she stopped wanting
to wash her hair, hats were available and she wore them. A couple of
months ago we went somewhere and she changed her mind about getting
out of the car because she said she felt like her hair was too oily,
so we came home. Now she washes it whenever she thinks it needs it.
Also, she has chosen not to shave her armpits, but does Nair her
legs.
A couple of months ago I went to "no shampoo" hair washing, using a
paste of 2 tbsp of baking powder/water on my scalp and rinsing with
apple cider vinegar/water (yes, the smell washes completely out -
you just smell like an Easter egg for a minute!). It works just
great. (No ill effects to the highlights, either.) DD isn't
interested in no 'poo, but it is an available option for her.
Here's a link to "no 'poo":
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/389/why-you-should-
go-no-poo/
Priscilla
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.
We went 99% RU about a year ago (still working on a few points,
especially with DH). DD, then 13, didn't want to bathe or wash hair.
I put deodorant wipes and deodorant in the car which she was
agreeable to use. She had been washing her hair before, but not
combing it out, putting it in a ponytail. When she stopped wanting
to wash her hair, hats were available and she wore them. A couple of
months ago we went somewhere and she changed her mind about getting
out of the car because she said she felt like her hair was too oily,
so we came home. Now she washes it whenever she thinks it needs it.
Also, she has chosen not to shave her armpits, but does Nair her
legs.
A couple of months ago I went to "no shampoo" hair washing, using a
paste of 2 tbsp of baking powder/water on my scalp and rinsing with
apple cider vinegar/water (yes, the smell washes completely out -
you just smell like an Easter egg for a minute!). It works just
great. (No ill effects to the highlights, either.) DD isn't
interested in no 'poo, but it is an available option for her.
Here's a link to "no 'poo":
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/389/why-you-should-
go-no-poo/
Priscilla
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.
sharon currie
Hi Arlene,
My son used to scream when we had to wash his hair. He basically had a phobia of water on his face, due to an unfortunate incident whereby he went under the water during one of his swimming lesson because the 'replacement' instructor was to busy fiddling with one of the little girl's arm band that she didn't realised my son has already bounced off to the other end of the pool. We always wash his hair for him and we do it speedy quick with him screaming all the way but us assuring him with comforting words. We always have him tilt his head backwards so nothing gets on his face. Eventually, just by accident, we found that he was quite happy 'floating' in the bath. (he hates shower but loves the bath) And because he was 'floating', I've convinced him to allow me to 'wash' his hair quickly. In this instance, I don't bother shampoo but just quickly run my fingers thru his hair and scalp, as the water is already scented by a large aromatherapy fizzing ' bath bomb'. His hair
smells heavenly for the next few days.
So instead of trying to get son to wash his hair, maybe it might help if you offer to wash his hair for him, speedily and carefully? I think what's important for him is to find out that washing hair doesn't need to be scary and painful, which can be as shampoo in the eys do really sting.
SharonC
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son used to scream when we had to wash his hair. He basically had a phobia of water on his face, due to an unfortunate incident whereby he went under the water during one of his swimming lesson because the 'replacement' instructor was to busy fiddling with one of the little girl's arm band that she didn't realised my son has already bounced off to the other end of the pool. We always wash his hair for him and we do it speedy quick with him screaming all the way but us assuring him with comforting words. We always have him tilt his head backwards so nothing gets on his face. Eventually, just by accident, we found that he was quite happy 'floating' in the bath. (he hates shower but loves the bath) And because he was 'floating', I've convinced him to allow me to 'wash' his hair quickly. In this instance, I don't bother shampoo but just quickly run my fingers thru his hair and scalp, as the water is already scented by a large aromatherapy fizzing ' bath bomb'. His hair
smells heavenly for the next few days.
So instead of trying to get son to wash his hair, maybe it might help if you offer to wash his hair for him, speedily and carefully? I think what's important for him is to find out that washing hair doesn't need to be scary and painful, which can be as shampoo in the eys do really sting.
SharonC
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zanyzingzap
having nothing to do with the process of working through this of
course, but just as an fyi, there are ways to wash the hair without
soap. I believe the most widely known alternative is to rub baking
soda in the hair and rinse with water/vinegar mix. This helps maintain
the acid mantle of the scalp better and tends to reduce the oil
production. Also I read somewhere that rubbing cornmeal thru the hair
then brushing it out is a type of "dry washing" of the hair. I know
there are other alternatives to soap if that is the main issue. :)
HTH
Lisa
course, but just as an fyi, there are ways to wash the hair without
soap. I believe the most widely known alternative is to rub baking
soda in the hair and rinse with water/vinegar mix. This helps maintain
the acid mantle of the scalp better and tends to reduce the oil
production. Also I read somewhere that rubbing cornmeal thru the hair
then brushing it out is a type of "dry washing" of the hair. I know
there are other alternatives to soap if that is the main issue. :)
HTH
Lisa
Jackie Lazzaro
I am so glad this came up. I've had this situation with my 10yo dd. She
doesn't want to shower and her hair gets really oily. I've been trying to
encourage her to shower, but have also resorted to wipes when necessary.
She doesn't want to wear her hair up, so maybe I'll look into hats.
The no-poo sounds interesting. I may try it, but I'm afraid of the
possibility of 2 wks with nasty hair. lol!
Thanks to the OP for asking the question.
:-)
Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Priscilla
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Dealing with a difference of
opinion/baths/hair
Hi,
We went 99% RU about a year ago (still working on a few points,
especially with DH). DD, then 13, didn't want to bathe or wash hair.
I put deodorant wipes and deodorant in the car which she was
agreeable to use. She had been washing her hair before, but not
combing it out, putting it in a ponytail. When she stopped wanting
to wash her hair, hats were available and she wore them. A couple of
months ago we went somewhere and she changed her mind about getting
out of the car because she said she felt like her hair was too oily,
so we came home. Now she washes it whenever she thinks it needs it.
Also, she has chosen not to shave her armpits, but does Nair her
legs.
A couple of months ago I went to "no shampoo" hair washing, using a
paste of 2 tbsp of baking powder/water on my scalp and rinsing with
apple cider vinegar/water (yes, the smell washes completely out -
you just smell like an Easter egg for a minute!). It works just
great. (No ill effects to the highlights, either.) DD isn't
interested in no 'poo, but it is an available option for her.
Here's a link to "no 'poo":
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/389/why-you-should-
go-no-poo/
Priscilla
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doesn't want to shower and her hair gets really oily. I've been trying to
encourage her to shower, but have also resorted to wipes when necessary.
She doesn't want to wear her hair up, so maybe I'll look into hats.
The no-poo sounds interesting. I may try it, but I'm afraid of the
possibility of 2 wks with nasty hair. lol!
Thanks to the OP for asking the question.
:-)
Jackie
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Priscilla
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Dealing with a difference of
opinion/baths/hair
Hi,
We went 99% RU about a year ago (still working on a few points,
especially with DH). DD, then 13, didn't want to bathe or wash hair.
I put deodorant wipes and deodorant in the car which she was
agreeable to use. She had been washing her hair before, but not
combing it out, putting it in a ponytail. When she stopped wanting
to wash her hair, hats were available and she wore them. A couple of
months ago we went somewhere and she changed her mind about getting
out of the car because she said she felt like her hair was too oily,
so we came home. Now she washes it whenever she thinks it needs it.
Also, she has chosen not to shave her armpits, but does Nair her
legs.
A couple of months ago I went to "no shampoo" hair washing, using a
paste of 2 tbsp of baking powder/water on my scalp and rinsing with
apple cider vinegar/water (yes, the smell washes completely out -
you just smell like an Easter egg for a minute!). It works just
great. (No ill effects to the highlights, either.) DD isn't
interested in no 'poo, but it is an available option for her.
Here's a link to "no 'poo":
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/389/why-you-should-
go-no-poo/
Priscilla
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chandelle'
i have dreadlocks and i wash my hair about twice a week. if i feel like i
need a shower i can just get them wet now without always feeling like i
*had* to wash it when it was normal because otherwise it would get tangled.
i grew up in arizona and took showers twice a day, washing hair and body
thoroughly both times, throughout my childhood and teenage years, because it
was just so friggin' hot so i always felt dirty. i still have that problem
in the summer but i have gradually tapered off from showering/washing hair
every day to showering every other day or less and washing my hair twice a
week or so. i have noticed since i've been doing this that my skin is
smoother and healthier, any acne i ever had before has disappeared, and my
hair is smoother, shinier, thicker, and seems to grow faster. i believe now
that washing our hair and skin so much is actually causing a lot of the
problems that i hear people complain about...acne, oily hair, dry skin,
etc. dealing with the oil was a struggle for me for a while, for a few
months, but now it's balanced out and i never have to deal with that issue
(and actually with dreads it doesn't matter anyway). i never need lotion
anymore and my husband has found that most of his eczema issues have
resolved since he eliminated harsh chemicals on his skin and hair (we only
use bronner's on our hair and skin). we also need less deodorant...we
always have a pleasant smell that people comment on often. :) (i think
that mostly has to do with our diet though.)
we do struggle with the bath issues with our son though. he just barely
turned two and he has hair halfway down his back. i do trim his bangs so
it's not hanging in his face, but we've decided to let him decide when/if he
wants to cut the rest, especially since he's expressed dismay at the sight
of himself in a ponytail (where's my hair?). but it does need to be washed
because it's a magnet for anything he eats. he'll sometimes let me pull it
back while he eats but he usually pulls it out and that defeats the purpose
since he's putting lots of food in his hair while pulling out the hairtie.
:) he loves taking baths and having his face and body cleaned, but DETESTS
having water put on his head. i really don't know how to deal with this
issue. i want to leave his hair be but i also have a lot of pressure on me
to cut his hair from our very conservative families (anywhere from "he's
going to be teased for looking like a girl" to "you're the mom...who cares
what he wants?" to "you're going to make him gay!") and when they see
pictures of him with peanut-butter head it just reinforces their argument.
so i don't know how to deal with this. if he would even just let me rinse
his hair i would probably be satisfied with that, but any water goes on his
head at all and he totally freaks out. i could use some suggestions too if
anyone has any, on how to make bathtime easier.
as to your question, i wouldn't worry about it. clearly you're more worried
about it than he is. ok, that didn't sound nice but i didn't mean it in a
mean way. are you afraid it will reflect badly on you if his hair is long,
greasy, etc.? maybe you could discuss the issue with him of what sort of
image we (sadly) project by what we look like and ask if he's comfortable
with people's judgments against him...and you. if he is, i would just let
it go. eventually he'll probably get sick of it and he'll remember that you
supported his choice. one thing you might suggest is baking soda. during
the worst of my oily phases, especially camping, i'd just pat my fingers in
baking soda, scrunch it up into my roots, then comb it out. it sucks up the
oil and takes away any smell that might exist.
hth,
chandelle'
need a shower i can just get them wet now without always feeling like i
*had* to wash it when it was normal because otherwise it would get tangled.
i grew up in arizona and took showers twice a day, washing hair and body
thoroughly both times, throughout my childhood and teenage years, because it
was just so friggin' hot so i always felt dirty. i still have that problem
in the summer but i have gradually tapered off from showering/washing hair
every day to showering every other day or less and washing my hair twice a
week or so. i have noticed since i've been doing this that my skin is
smoother and healthier, any acne i ever had before has disappeared, and my
hair is smoother, shinier, thicker, and seems to grow faster. i believe now
that washing our hair and skin so much is actually causing a lot of the
problems that i hear people complain about...acne, oily hair, dry skin,
etc. dealing with the oil was a struggle for me for a while, for a few
months, but now it's balanced out and i never have to deal with that issue
(and actually with dreads it doesn't matter anyway). i never need lotion
anymore and my husband has found that most of his eczema issues have
resolved since he eliminated harsh chemicals on his skin and hair (we only
use bronner's on our hair and skin). we also need less deodorant...we
always have a pleasant smell that people comment on often. :) (i think
that mostly has to do with our diet though.)
we do struggle with the bath issues with our son though. he just barely
turned two and he has hair halfway down his back. i do trim his bangs so
it's not hanging in his face, but we've decided to let him decide when/if he
wants to cut the rest, especially since he's expressed dismay at the sight
of himself in a ponytail (where's my hair?). but it does need to be washed
because it's a magnet for anything he eats. he'll sometimes let me pull it
back while he eats but he usually pulls it out and that defeats the purpose
since he's putting lots of food in his hair while pulling out the hairtie.
:) he loves taking baths and having his face and body cleaned, but DETESTS
having water put on his head. i really don't know how to deal with this
issue. i want to leave his hair be but i also have a lot of pressure on me
to cut his hair from our very conservative families (anywhere from "he's
going to be teased for looking like a girl" to "you're the mom...who cares
what he wants?" to "you're going to make him gay!") and when they see
pictures of him with peanut-butter head it just reinforces their argument.
so i don't know how to deal with this. if he would even just let me rinse
his hair i would probably be satisfied with that, but any water goes on his
head at all and he totally freaks out. i could use some suggestions too if
anyone has any, on how to make bathtime easier.
as to your question, i wouldn't worry about it. clearly you're more worried
about it than he is. ok, that didn't sound nice but i didn't mean it in a
mean way. are you afraid it will reflect badly on you if his hair is long,
greasy, etc.? maybe you could discuss the issue with him of what sort of
image we (sadly) project by what we look like and ask if he's comfortable
with people's judgments against him...and you. if he is, i would just let
it go. eventually he'll probably get sick of it and he'll remember that you
supported his choice. one thing you might suggest is baking soda. during
the worst of my oily phases, especially camping, i'd just pat my fingers in
baking soda, scrunch it up into my roots, then comb it out. it sucks up the
oil and takes away any smell that might exist.
hth,
chandelle'
On 4/12/07, Priscilla <bobcatpris2000@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> We went 99% RU about a year ago (still working on a few points,
> especially with DH). DD, then 13, didn't want to bathe or wash hair.
> I put deodorant wipes and deodorant in the car which she was
> agreeable to use. She had been washing her hair before, but not
> combing it out, putting it in a ponytail. When she stopped wanting
> to wash her hair, hats were available and she wore them. A couple of
> months ago we went somewhere and she changed her mind about getting
> out of the car because she said she felt like her hair was too oily,
> so we came home. Now she washes it whenever she thinks it needs it.
> Also, she has chosen not to shave her armpits, but does Nair her
> legs.
>
> A couple of months ago I went to "no shampoo" hair washing, using a
> paste of 2 tbsp of baking powder/water on my scalp and rinsing with
> apple cider vinegar/water (yes, the smell washes completely out -
> you just smell like an Easter egg for a minute!). It works just
> great. (No ill effects to the highlights, either.) DD isn't
> interested in no 'poo, but it is an available option for her.
>
> Here's a link to "no 'poo":
> http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/389/why-you-should-
> go-no-poo/
>
> Priscilla
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
> wrote:
> Currently my ds (11) has decided not to
> wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my
mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said
then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while
there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I
am not free."
-Eugene V. Debs
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
Something that helped DS (who also dislikes water in his face - gets
that from me - I *have to* have a towel over the shower rod to dry my
face as soon as I wash it and to daub it if any water gets in it
otherwise) is to take a dry dish towel or hand towel double or triple
it (as if making a mask) and he holds it while I whisk over his hair
with a second, dampish washcloth.
--Deb
that from me - I *have to* have a towel over the shower rod to dry my
face as soon as I wash it and to daub it if any water gets in it
otherwise) is to take a dry dish towel or hand towel double or triple
it (as if making a mask) and he holds it while I whisk over his hair
with a second, dampish washcloth.
--Deb
Deb
Hmm - if he's -not- pulling out the hair tie (and getting everything
involved in his hair), is it mostly on the ends, since they are more
likely to dangle forward? He might be okay with laying back and
floating his hair some in the tub - a few shakes and wiggles (and a
little support from mom) and most of the worst of it would work
itself out.
Also, my DS did NOT like even brushing or combing his hair (or
having it brushed or combed) until I showed him how I could use
a "trick" I learned when I was a kid and had REALLY long hair (the
idea of Mommy being little and having really really long hair was
intriguing - I usually keep mine somewhere between just shy of
collar and bottom of shoulder blades now). I hold a section up close
to the scalp and brush from my hand to the end - my hand acts as a
shock absorber so that there is no pulling against his scalp. As
long as I go slowly around his head this way, he's quite willing for
me to occasionally brush his hair.
Funny hair story: Several years ago, I had let my hair just grow for
almost 2 years. Then I went and got it cut (and donated it). When I
came home, with chin length hair, DS (who was about 4 at the time)
looked me over and said "Now you look like a real Mommy" and went
back to playing. I pondered for a minute or two and realized that of
the kids he knew/saw on a regular basis (relatives, friends, etc),
every single mom had hair that was collar length or shorter.
--Deb
involved in his hair), is it mostly on the ends, since they are more
likely to dangle forward? He might be okay with laying back and
floating his hair some in the tub - a few shakes and wiggles (and a
little support from mom) and most of the worst of it would work
itself out.
Also, my DS did NOT like even brushing or combing his hair (or
having it brushed or combed) until I showed him how I could use
a "trick" I learned when I was a kid and had REALLY long hair (the
idea of Mommy being little and having really really long hair was
intriguing - I usually keep mine somewhere between just shy of
collar and bottom of shoulder blades now). I hold a section up close
to the scalp and brush from my hand to the end - my hand acts as a
shock absorber so that there is no pulling against his scalp. As
long as I go slowly around his head this way, he's quite willing for
me to occasionally brush his hair.
Funny hair story: Several years ago, I had let my hair just grow for
almost 2 years. Then I went and got it cut (and donated it). When I
came home, with chin length hair, DS (who was about 4 at the time)
looked me over and said "Now you look like a real Mommy" and went
back to playing. I pondered for a minute or two and realized that of
the kids he knew/saw on a regular basis (relatives, friends, etc),
every single mom had hair that was collar length or shorter.
--Deb
chandelle'
LOl, a real mommy. i wonder what i look like then. :P
that's just exactly how i comb my son's hair too...laying it across my hand
to comb the worst of the stuff out. if he's occupied with something else
he's pretty happy to let me do it. i did try the
laying-down-floating-in-the-tub thing a few weeks ago but if anything it was
more traumatic. sigh.
that's just exactly how i comb my son's hair too...laying it across my hand
to comb the worst of the stuff out. if he's occupied with something else
he's pretty happy to let me do it. i did try the
laying-down-floating-in-the-tub thing a few weeks ago but if anything it was
more traumatic. sigh.
On 4/12/07, Deb <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm - if he's -not- pulling out the hair tie (and getting everything
> involved in his hair), is it mostly on the ends, since they are more
> likely to dangle forward? He might be okay with laying back and
> floating his hair some in the tub - a few shakes and wiggles (and a
> little support from mom) and most of the worst of it would work
> itself out.
>
> Also, my DS did NOT like even brushing or combing his hair (or
> having it brushed or combed) until I showed him how I could use
> a "trick" I learned when I was a kid and had REALLY long hair (the
> idea of Mommy being little and having really really long hair was
> intriguing - I usually keep mine somewhere between just shy of
> collar and bottom of shoulder blades now). I hold a section up close
> to the scalp and brush from my hand to the end - my hand acts as a
> shock absorber so that there is no pulling against his scalp. As
> long as I go slowly around his head this way, he's quite willing for
> me to occasionally brush his hair.
>
> Funny hair story: Several years ago, I had let my hair just grow for
> almost 2 years. Then I went and got it cut (and donated it). When I
> came home, with chin length hair, DS (who was about 4 at the time)
> looked me over and said "Now you look like a real Mommy" and went
> back to playing. I pondered for a minute or two and realized that of
> the kids he knew/saw on a regular basis (relatives, friends, etc),
> every single mom had hair that was collar length or shorter.
>
> --Deb
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
"Play is the highest form of research."
-Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ray
Personally, I rarely use soap on my hair. Rarely, like, once a month.
It gets rinsed thoroughly in the shower daily. soap is not necessary.
When it does get washed, I use castile soap, which is oil based so
doesn't run anywhere you don't put it. It does an effective job of
cleaning while not stripping the hair of its natural oils.
Fortunately for me, I don't have to deal with the alternate parent
not being convinced of unschooling as I'm a single parent, but if
your husband's issue is "not feeling listened to" perhaps he should
converse more than command. If his command for something as simple
as "wash your hair" is met with such disagreement not, it does not
bode well for the next... well, at least 7 years, where there are
sure to be more important things than greasy hair to argue about.
who is really affected by your son's choice not to wash his hair? him
or you?
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
It gets rinsed thoroughly in the shower daily. soap is not necessary.
When it does get washed, I use castile soap, which is oil based so
doesn't run anywhere you don't put it. It does an effective job of
cleaning while not stripping the hair of its natural oils.
Fortunately for me, I don't have to deal with the alternate parent
not being convinced of unschooling as I'm a single parent, but if
your husband's issue is "not feeling listened to" perhaps he should
converse more than command. If his command for something as simple
as "wash your hair" is met with such disagreement not, it does not
bode well for the next... well, at least 7 years, where there are
sure to be more important things than greasy hair to argue about.
who is really affected by your son's choice not to wash his hair? him
or you?
--- In [email protected], "sfenom11" <sfenom11@...>
wrote:
>that RU
> Hi
> We're new to unschooling and I'm still trying to convince my dh
> is the way to go. It's so different from conventional parentingthat
> I'm finding it hard to explain and harder to convince him that thisis
> the best way to deal with ds. Currently my ds (11) has decided notto
> wash, cut or brush his hair and it is getting long and greasy.Tonight
> my dh told my ds to wash his hair while he was having his bath. Dsdh
> didn't do it and dh got mad and a power struggle was created with
> feeling not listened to, ds feeling angry and me stuck in themiddle.
> When I ask why ds doesn't wash his hair, he says that the soap getsin
> his eyes, the hair just gets dirty again anyway... We've tried inthe
> past things to keep the soap out of his eyes, but I think he's justnot
> interested. I would like to keep this a non-issue and let my sondecide
> on his own, but my dh doesn't agree.
> How would you deal with this situation?
> Thanks,
> Arlene
>
mugglebornmom
--- In [email protected], "Deb" <debra.rossing@...>
wrote:
was old enough to know I was washing his hair. I have no solutions to
this. He does attempt to wash it himself, and I try to let him but he
needs help rinsing, so I try to do it as quickly as possible with a
washcloth over his eyes and a towel handy to wipe his face off. He is
paranoid about getting water in his ears/eyes/nose.
My 14 year old will wash his own hair in the shower. Getting him to
take a shower is something else. Not because he doesn't want to, but
because he puts it off....for days sometimes. Then he breaks out like
mad. When he first started puberty around 11, he started getting acne.
I tried to explain to him that having a clean face and clean hair will
help to keep his skin clear. He uses acne free on his face - when he
showers. I used to wash his face and hair for him every morning when he
was in public school because we were always in such a rush and his hair
and skin were great. Now, I figure we're home, he can do it himself,
but he's really breaking out bad, even his back. It looks so painful,
you'd think that would be a motivator to go shower every day! I feel so
bad for him that I at least put some acne cream on his face and back
before bed if he hasn't got his shower. I also let him pick out his own
body wash, shampoo, men's cologn and deoderant so he feels more in
charge of his personal hygene. I also count his personal hygene as a
non-core subject to help motivate him to do it.
I like the idea of the no-poo. I'll check it out. I'm not fond of all
the chemicals we are exposed to. A more natural method sounds great!
wrote:
>My 6 year old has screamed and cried every time I was his hair since he
> Something that helped DS (who also dislikes water in his face - gets
> that from me - I *have to* have a towel over the shower rod to dry my
> face as soon as I wash it and to daub it if any water gets in it
> otherwise) is to take a dry dish towel or hand towel double or triple
> it (as if making a mask) and he holds it while I whisk over his hair
> with a second, dampish washcloth.
>
> --Deb
>
was old enough to know I was washing his hair. I have no solutions to
this. He does attempt to wash it himself, and I try to let him but he
needs help rinsing, so I try to do it as quickly as possible with a
washcloth over his eyes and a towel handy to wipe his face off. He is
paranoid about getting water in his ears/eyes/nose.
My 14 year old will wash his own hair in the shower. Getting him to
take a shower is something else. Not because he doesn't want to, but
because he puts it off....for days sometimes. Then he breaks out like
mad. When he first started puberty around 11, he started getting acne.
I tried to explain to him that having a clean face and clean hair will
help to keep his skin clear. He uses acne free on his face - when he
showers. I used to wash his face and hair for him every morning when he
was in public school because we were always in such a rush and his hair
and skin were great. Now, I figure we're home, he can do it himself,
but he's really breaking out bad, even his back. It looks so painful,
you'd think that would be a motivator to go shower every day! I feel so
bad for him that I at least put some acne cream on his face and back
before bed if he hasn't got his shower. I also let him pick out his own
body wash, shampoo, men's cologn and deoderant so he feels more in
charge of his personal hygene. I also count his personal hygene as a
non-core subject to help motivate him to do it.
I like the idea of the no-poo. I'll check it out. I'm not fond of all
the chemicals we are exposed to. A more natural method sounds great!
Sylvia Toyama
The no-poo sounds interesting. I may try it, but I'm afraid of the
possibility of 2 wks with nasty hair. lol!
****
yeah, this is the part that stops me from going no-poo -- I can't stand one day of slightly dirty hair (I swear it feels different on my head on day #2) much less two weeks!
What I have done is switch to homemade shampoo. I spent several weeks creating the right recipe, going from soap flakes (too strong a soapy smell) to using a mix of Dr. Bronner's almond soap (no sodium laureth sulfate or other foaming agents) mixed with chamomile tea for highlights (2 oz soap to 12 oz tea). I'm still using a commercial conditioner, since I haven't found any conditioner/detangle recipes work for me. I have the kind of hair that tangles sitting still, so de-tangling after washing is a must.
I'm saving money, and my hair doesn't get oily as quickly as before -- I can at least make it to mid-morning the next day before it's too oily to be seen. With regular shampoo, it's often feeling/looking too oily for me by dinnertime!
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
possibility of 2 wks with nasty hair. lol!
****
yeah, this is the part that stops me from going no-poo -- I can't stand one day of slightly dirty hair (I swear it feels different on my head on day #2) much less two weeks!
What I have done is switch to homemade shampoo. I spent several weeks creating the right recipe, going from soap flakes (too strong a soapy smell) to using a mix of Dr. Bronner's almond soap (no sodium laureth sulfate or other foaming agents) mixed with chamomile tea for highlights (2 oz soap to 12 oz tea). I'm still using a commercial conditioner, since I haven't found any conditioner/detangle recipes work for me. I have the kind of hair that tangles sitting still, so de-tangling after washing is a must.
I'm saving money, and my hair doesn't get oily as quickly as before -- I can at least make it to mid-morning the next day before it's too oily to be seen. With regular shampoo, it's often feeling/looking too oily for me by dinnertime!
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Genevieve Labonte
We mostly don't use shampoo on the boys, unless their hair is really
dirty and can't get out without a shampoo. The only we have trouble
with is Jonathan, since he has shoulder-length hair that is really,
really fine and tangles easily. If we go 2-3 without brushing it,
dreads start to appear in the back. The solution we found, is to bring
him in the shower with us, and with a really nice plant shampoo wash
twice, and rince with the telephone shower head (not sure it's the
english name for it!) and rinse without anything getting in his eyes.
We then use conditionner for at least a minute while he plays with the
shower head. After the shower, we comb through and wait for next time.
We've had trouble with my mom who freaks out with his hair, but we've
learned to live with it. It's Jonathan and he gets to decide what to do
with his hair, long or short. And he is really cute like that ;-)
Genevieve, mom to 4 boys, and an October baby to be...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dirty and can't get out without a shampoo. The only we have trouble
with is Jonathan, since he has shoulder-length hair that is really,
really fine and tangles easily. If we go 2-3 without brushing it,
dreads start to appear in the back. The solution we found, is to bring
him in the shower with us, and with a really nice plant shampoo wash
twice, and rince with the telephone shower head (not sure it's the
english name for it!) and rinse without anything getting in his eyes.
We then use conditionner for at least a minute while he plays with the
shower head. After the shower, we comb through and wait for next time.
We've had trouble with my mom who freaks out with his hair, but we've
learned to live with it. It's Jonathan and he gets to decide what to do
with his hair, long or short. And he is really cute like that ;-)
Genevieve, mom to 4 boys, and an October baby to be...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chandelle'
I tried to explain to him that having a clean face and clean hair will
help to keep his skin clear.
actually, at your son's age the primary cause of his acne is hormones, not
uncleanliness. it's a myth that being dirty causes acne. it may exacerbate
it, but the primary source is hormones. his best bet for prevention and
treatment is eating a good diet and NOT using those harsh cleansers and acne
treatments. those cleansers, creams, etc., just start a bad cycle of
stripping the oils from the skin, so the skin revs up its sebum output to
protect the skin, which exacerbates existing acne, so it *seems* that more
cleaning is needed, and so it goes. if he just rinses his face a couple of
times a day with warm water, keeps his hair out of his face, washes his
pillowcase often, and avoids harsh cleansers, that's the best he can do,
because the primary issue is his hormones and probably secondarily whatever
he's using to try to "fix" the problem. these: <body wash, shampoo, men's
cologn and deoderant> are very likely also a contributing factor. the more
products a person is exposed to, the more oil their skin will produce to try
to flush out the toxins. maybe try a simple castile soap like bronner's for
when he does shower and eliminate everything else. the rock is a very
respectable deodorant substitute. a tiny amount of essential oil can go a
long way as a "cologne" - OMG, colognes are the devil for boys with acne
because of the alcohol. there are many essential oils with masculine
scents. he shouldn't need a body wash. they are universally drying. dry
might seem like what you want since it's oil that causes acne, but STRIPPING
oil is only going to increase the output - and body washes, most soaps,
shampoos, etc. are all intended to strip oils. what you want is a balance.
if the acne is painful, you can rub the skin with an infusion of chamomile,
lavender and aloe with a *tiny* drop of eucalyptus for cooling. garlic is
also pretty effective at helping to balance oil production, but lots of
people are adverse to putting it directly on the skin. but basically, he's
just going to have to grow up so his hormones can equalize. it probably
makes him feel bad hearing that its his dirtiness causing it...my parents
told me the same thing, even though i showered twice a day. i didn't have a
lot of acne, just normal teenager stuff, but i also thought it was because i
was a dirty person. it's horribly esteem-destroying and it does NOT usually
motivate someone to want to be cleaner. quite the opposite.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
help to keep his skin clear.
actually, at your son's age the primary cause of his acne is hormones, not
uncleanliness. it's a myth that being dirty causes acne. it may exacerbate
it, but the primary source is hormones. his best bet for prevention and
treatment is eating a good diet and NOT using those harsh cleansers and acne
treatments. those cleansers, creams, etc., just start a bad cycle of
stripping the oils from the skin, so the skin revs up its sebum output to
protect the skin, which exacerbates existing acne, so it *seems* that more
cleaning is needed, and so it goes. if he just rinses his face a couple of
times a day with warm water, keeps his hair out of his face, washes his
pillowcase often, and avoids harsh cleansers, that's the best he can do,
because the primary issue is his hormones and probably secondarily whatever
he's using to try to "fix" the problem. these: <body wash, shampoo, men's
cologn and deoderant> are very likely also a contributing factor. the more
products a person is exposed to, the more oil their skin will produce to try
to flush out the toxins. maybe try a simple castile soap like bronner's for
when he does shower and eliminate everything else. the rock is a very
respectable deodorant substitute. a tiny amount of essential oil can go a
long way as a "cologne" - OMG, colognes are the devil for boys with acne
because of the alcohol. there are many essential oils with masculine
scents. he shouldn't need a body wash. they are universally drying. dry
might seem like what you want since it's oil that causes acne, but STRIPPING
oil is only going to increase the output - and body washes, most soaps,
shampoos, etc. are all intended to strip oils. what you want is a balance.
if the acne is painful, you can rub the skin with an infusion of chamomile,
lavender and aloe with a *tiny* drop of eucalyptus for cooling. garlic is
also pretty effective at helping to balance oil production, but lots of
people are adverse to putting it directly on the skin. but basically, he's
just going to have to grow up so his hormones can equalize. it probably
makes him feel bad hearing that its his dirtiness causing it...my parents
told me the same thing, even though i showered twice a day. i didn't have a
lot of acne, just normal teenager stuff, but i also thought it was because i
was a dirty person. it's horribly esteem-destroying and it does NOT usually
motivate someone to want to be cleaner. quite the opposite.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sfenom11
Wow - thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to this. You've
given me a lot to think about and look into, not just regarding the
communication issues, but also the effect of all the chemicals we use
on our bodies.
Deb, I think that you have a point that I didn't consider - letting my
dh feel heard and respected. My dh works long hours, so he doesn't get
the same level of connection with ds as I do, and I think that he
feels left out a bit because of that. Add to that our conditioning to
give out commands as parents, rather than discuss things to find a
mutually agreeable solution - it's a huge change to get used to!!
So thank you everyone for your thoughts and ideas!
Arlene
given me a lot to think about and look into, not just regarding the
communication issues, but also the effect of all the chemicals we use
on our bodies.
Deb, I think that you have a point that I didn't consider - letting my
dh feel heard and respected. My dh works long hours, so he doesn't get
the same level of connection with ds as I do, and I think that he
feels left out a bit because of that. Add to that our conditioning to
give out commands as parents, rather than discuss things to find a
mutually agreeable solution - it's a huge change to get used to!!
So thank you everyone for your thoughts and ideas!
Arlene
ray
it usually is greasier on day two, as its trying to compensate, than
it is on day 14.
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
wrote:
my head on day #2) much less two weeks!
soapy smell) to using a mix of Dr. Bronner's almond soap (no sodium
laureth sulfate or other foaming agents) mixed with chamomile tea for
highlights (2 oz soap to 12 oz tea). I'm still using a commercial
conditioner, since I haven't found any conditioner/detangle recipes
work for me. I have the kind of hair that tangles sitting still, so
de-tangling after washing is a must.
it's too oily to be seen. With regular shampoo, it's often
feeling/looking too oily for me by dinnertime!
it is on day 14.
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...>
wrote:
>stand one day of slightly dirty hair (I swear it feels different on
> The no-poo sounds interesting. I may try it, but I'm afraid of the
> possibility of 2 wks with nasty hair. lol!
>
> ****
> yeah, this is the part that stops me from going no-poo -- I can't
my head on day #2) much less two weeks!
>weeks creating the right recipe, going from soap flakes (too strong a
> What I have done is switch to homemade shampoo. I spent several
soapy smell) to using a mix of Dr. Bronner's almond soap (no sodium
laureth sulfate or other foaming agents) mixed with chamomile tea for
highlights (2 oz soap to 12 oz tea). I'm still using a commercial
conditioner, since I haven't found any conditioner/detangle recipes
work for me. I have the kind of hair that tangles sitting still, so
de-tangling after washing is a must.
>before -- I can at least make it to mid-morning the next day before
> I'm saving money, and my hair doesn't get oily as quickly as
it's too oily to be seen. With regular shampoo, it's often
feeling/looking too oily for me by dinnertime!
>out.
> Sylvia
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss an email again!
> Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sylvia Toyama
it usually is greasier on day two, as its trying to compensate, than
it is on day 14.
****
And, based on the few times I've let it go --- birth of a child, hospital stay with a child -- days 3 & 4 my hair is oily way beyond nasty. We're talking living under a bridge dirty. There's no way I'd make it to day 14.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it is on day 14.
****
And, based on the few times I've let it go --- birth of a child, hospital stay with a child -- days 3 & 4 my hair is oily way beyond nasty. We're talking living under a bridge dirty. There's no way I'd make it to day 14.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]