rob_saxon_2001

Hey there,

My name is Rob, and I've been a lapsed lurker for a good while now.
We have two girls, ages 5 and just turned 4 (16 months apart).

Our older daughter, Genevieve, has decided that she wants to go to
school. She started this a year ago, and for a while, her Sunday
School class seemed to address that. But now she is bringing it back
up again. I think my wife Seana has put it better than I could, so
here is her post to another group. Sorry for any duplicates. And
thank you for your time and thoughts on this.

Note: Seana's mom is *mostly* supportive of our unschooling the
girls. She's not antagonistic, and she does not try to subvert us,
either.

--Rob
DH to Seana for 10 years
Daddy to Genevieve (5.33 years)
Daddy to Elissa (Now 4!)

***************

Genevieve has recently started talking, again, about going to "real
school". She told my mom that she wants to learn exciting things.
I know she is bored but when I try to initiate something, she's not
interested. I'm not very happy about the idea of putting her in
public, all day, kindergarten and we can't afford private. I feel
like I'm failing her. Elissa demands so much of me that I just don't
have much for Genevieve. I try to help her see things and I know that
she isn't aware of how much she is learning/knows compared to
'schooled' kids but it is so hard when everyone is pushing "how fun
school is."
HELP!
--
Seana

Deb

Hi Rob

One thing that was really helpful for us was being part of a
homeschool group (an inclusive, relaxed, eclectic bunch for the most
part) from the time DS was around 3 yrs old - at first it was mostly
just the occasional park day and such and then other activities like
trips to the zoo or the fire station or what-have-you. Bottom line
was that by the time he was "school age" he already knew a bunch of
kids, his age, older, younger, that all homeschooled. It wasn't an
unusual thing at all, like "everyone else is going" - he knew that
kids went to school (a bus stops at the house across the street) but
he also knew that there were bunches of kids that didn't.
Interestingly enough, he got the *opposite* opinion from those kid
shows - he decided that school took up too much time and he didn't
want to give up stuff he was already doing (sleeping late, eating
when he wanted to, playing games and watching TV and going places)
for the dubious "excitement" of school. It helped having experiences
like spending a day at the park and getting behind a school bus full
of kids who had been in school all day. Didn't take a whole lot for
him to notice the difference between his running and playing day and
their sit still and quiet day.

Have you talked about what specifically it is that she is wanting
from school? Much of the kid stuff on TV and in books and movies is
about how cool it is at school - playing at recess and so on. Few
show the flip side - sitting at a desk, tests, waiting for meals,
bathroom breaks, play time, etc. (FWIW if you can find Recess and
The Weekenders it might help a tiny bit - both of those shows
basically say that there's school and then there's exciting LIFE and
you have to survive through school to get to life, at recess, after
school, on weekends and holidays). Maybe riding the bus and doing
craft projects are the big things. Okay, so figure out how to bring
that into her life - it might mean that you do crafts with her in
the evenings if Mom is struggling to handle both girls' needs during
the day. Since I'm at work fulltime, DS (he's almost 9, never been
schooled) and I have biweekly date nights together (the alternate
weeks, DS visits with MIL and DH and I have date nights). His choice
of what we do - sometimes it's Starbucks (his favorite spot),
sometimes it's dinner at a fav restaurant, sometimes he requests to
stay home and play a board game with just me or we go and watch a
DVD together, just us snuggled up. Perhaps setting up a "Craft
night" or, as DS suggested this weekend, a "Science experiment"
night or whatever - whatever will fill what she is expecting school
to fulfill - might help.

And, again, she might choose school anyhow. Might read Guerilla
Learning by Grace Llewellyn. Even though she's in school, your
attitudes don't necessarily need to accept the "line" that schools
hand out about grades and test scores and such.

--Deb

Alice

--- In [email protected], "rob_saxon_2001"
<TheSaxons@...> wrote:
> Our older daughter, Genevieve, has decided that she wants to go to
> school. She started this a year ago, and for a while, her Sunday
> School class seemed to address that. But now she is bringing it
> back up again.


My dd wanted to go school last September. The media is a propaganda
mill for how much "fun" school is! The kids are bombarded with it
and it is hard to combat that as a parent.

Anyway, I talked talked talked to my dd about school but let her know
that I supported her and that it was her choice. We tried to meet her
needs in other ways but she chose to go to school anyway. So off she
went, all excited about learning and making friends and having "FUN".
She would come home with a headache or a stomach ache and say "I am
not going to tomorrow." So she wouldn't go the next day. Then she
would think, "maybe it is fun? I'll go tomorrow!". So she alternated
days for the first 3 weeks. I finally told her that she needed to
make a choice to either go every day or stop going all together
because I was going to get in trouble if she didn't start going more
often. So she opted out.

She really was able to see for herself how awful it was. She thought
it was boring and she hated having to ask to go to the bathroom (and
once a teacher told her no). She hated the "time-out" chair and how
she had to sit in just a certain way when the teacher was reading a
story. She hated that she couldn't write the letters in her name the
way she had always done it (it wasn't the "kindergarten way") She
could hardly think of anything positive to say about it! And she
really tried to make it work but the fact of the matter is that school
sucks! One night, while she was still attending, we were snuggling in
bed and talking about it and she started crying and said, "It's all
lies! They said it would be fun and that I would learn things but it
is all lies!" I just held her closed and grieved with her over her
loss of a dream.

What this all taught me is that school really does suck. And if you
continue to live in a radical unschooling way at home and don't let
yourself get sucked into the "school mentality", your child (if she
goes) will see through the lies. Who wouldn't? The contrast is too
striking. Keep your life at home fun and full of joy. Explore the
world together. Be their partner. If she does end up going, do not
stop living the RU life because now you have one kid "in school". Do
not let school have that kind of power over you or your family.

We fear that our children will become brainwashed, like all the other
kids, but I think that can happen only if the parents are also in on
the brainwashing. If you maintain a radical unschooling lifestyle at
home, the kid will see through the brainwashing that the school is
trying to do to them. Our kids are too strong of individuals, too
aware of their ability to make choices, too empowered. They won't let
school strip them of that. Kids that are already stripped of power
have nothing to lose in school and possibly might gain some power
there. RU kids have their very identities to lose. I am guessing that
all RU kids would figure out that school sucks pretty fast.

I hope that takes the fear out of it anyway and maybe helps a little!
I just want to clarify that I am not saying "send her to school - no
problem". What I am saying is that, if after exhausting all other
possibilities, your daughter still wants to go to school, continue to
live like RU'ers. She will get out of school as soon as the negatives
outweigh the positives which will probably be pretty quick. I would
call the school district and find out how many days she can be absent
before you get in trouble, just so you know. And have your intent to
homeschool (or whatever it is you need in your state) ready to go so
you can send it to them and get her out immediately when she says she
has had enough.
-Alice
joyfully living the RU life with dh Ordell, ds Andrew, dd Audrey and
various neices and nephews and other kids who come to our happy home